【BBC商业新闻】20261109 Business Tod
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:01 | Hello and welcome to Talking Business. | 欢迎光临"谈生意" |
| 0:03 | Here's what's on the programme this week. | 本周节目内容如下. |
| 0:06 | Digging up the dollars, can Africa hold onto more of the wealth that its metals and minerals are creating? | 挖掘美元,非洲能否掌握其金属和矿物创造的更多财富? |
| 0:12 | As a growing number of countries put restrictions on the export of raw materials, | 随着越来越多的国家限制原材料出口, |
| 0:16 | just how easy would it be for Africa to create the jobs and prosperity they're seeking? | 在非洲,创造他们寻求的就业机会和繁荣是多么容易? |
| 0:22 | I'll discuss that with these two, the head of the International Council on Mining and Metals, | 我会和这两位国际矿业和金属理事会主席讨论 |
| 0:27 | that represent some of the world's biggest mining companies. | 代表着世界上最大的矿业公司 |
| 0:30 | He tells us how the industry is helping. | 他告诉我们这个行业有什么帮助 |
| 0:33 | And the chief economist of the African Development Bank tells us why the continent's future | 非洲开发银行首席经济学家告诉我们 为什么非洲大陆的未来 |
| 0:37 | depends on making the most of what it digs up today. | 取决于如何充分利用它今天挖掘出来的东西 |
展开字幕全文（224 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Hello and welcome to Talking Business. | 欢迎光临"谈生意" |
| 2 | Here's what's on the programme this week. | 本周节目内容如下. |
| 3 | Digging up the dollars, can Africa hold onto more of the wealth that its metals and minerals are creating? | 挖掘美元,非洲能否掌握其金属和矿物创造的更多财富? |
| 4 | As a growing number of countries put restrictions on the export of raw materials, | 随着越来越多的国家限制原材料出口, |
| 5 | just how easy would it be for Africa to create the jobs and prosperity they're seeking? | 在非洲,创造他们寻求的就业机会和繁荣是多么容易? |
| 6 | I'll discuss that with these two, the head of the International Council on Mining and Metals, | 我会和这两位国际矿业和金属理事会主席讨论 |
| 7 | that represent some of the world's biggest mining companies. | 代表着世界上最大的矿业公司 |
| 8 | He tells us how the industry is helping. | 他告诉我们这个行业有什么帮助 |
| 9 | And the chief economist of the African Development Bank tells us why the continent's future | 非洲开发银行首席经济学家告诉我们 为什么非洲大陆的未来 |
| 10 | depends on making the most of what it digs up today. | 取决于如何充分利用它今天挖掘出来的东西 |
| 11 | Plus, I'll speak to the boss of Hitachi Energy about how demand for Africa's resources | 另外,我会跟Hitachi能源公司的老板谈谈 对非洲资源的需求 |
| 12 | is being charged by a never-ending need for power, with the boom in electric cars and AI data centres. | 电动汽车和人工智能数据中心的繁荣 正在充电 |
| 13 | Wherever you're watching, welcome to the programme. | 无论你们在看什么 欢迎参加节目 |
| 14 | Global demand for natural resources is soaring. | 全球对自然资源的需求正在猛增。 |
| 15 | The switch to electric vehicles, the growth of data centres and green energy | 转向电动车辆、数据中心的增长和绿色能源 |
| 16 | are just some of the reasons why the world needs more raw materials like lithium, graphite and copper. | 只是世界需要锂、石墨和铜等更多原材料的一些原因。 |
| 17 | Many see Africa as a continent full of potential. | 许多人认为非洲是一个充满潜力的大陆。 |
| 18 | But as demand grows, can it keep hold of its own natural wealth? | 但随着需求的增长,它能否保持自身的自然财富? |
| 19 | And can that bring the prosperity its people want? | 这能带来人民想要的繁荣吗? |
| 20 | This year, a growing number of governments have put export restrictions on their raw materials | 今年,越来越多的政府对原材料实行出口限制 |
| 21 | as they aim to keep more of the wealth that they generate domestically. | 因为他们想保留更多的财富 他们在国内创造。 |
| 22 | It's thought Africa holds around 20% of the world's mineral wealth, worth around $29.5 trillion. | 人们认为非洲占世界矿产财富的20%左右,价值约29.5万亿美元. |
| 23 | And that matters because nature-based sectors provide around two-thirds of all employment in many African countries. | 这很重要,因为在许多非洲国家,以自然为基础的部门提供了大约三分之二的就业机会。 |
| 24 | But where are all those natural resources going? | 但所有这些自然资源都流向何处? |
| 25 | Well, China has become the top export destination in recent years because of its appetite for raw materials. | 近几年来,由于中国对原材料的胃口,中国已成为出口的顶峰。 |
| 26 | China also processes many of those resources. | 中国还处理好其中许多资源。 |
| 27 | They're needed for the goods it produces, accounting for more than a quarter of global manufacturing. | 它生产的商品需要它们,占全球制造业的四分之一以上. |
| 28 | The US and other advanced economies also want Africa's resources. | 美国和其他发达经济体也想要非洲的资源。 |
| 29 | And as a result, the African Union suggests only 5% of their value is kept on the continent. | 因此,非洲联盟建议非洲大陆只保留5%的价值。 |
| 30 | This is Africa's great paradox. | 这是非洲最大的悖论。 |
| 31 | We have immense mineral wealth, yet insufficient industrial value and prosperity for our people. | 我们拥有巨大的矿产财富,但对于我国人民来说,工业价值和繁荣不足。 |
| 32 | Our ambition must be to move from minerals to materials, from materials to markets, | 我们的目标必须是从矿物转向材料,从材料转向市场, |
| 33 | and to competitive African enterprises. | 以及具有竞争力的非洲企业。 |
| 34 | At a time when global demand has pushed the prices for many natural resources higher, | 在全球需求将许多自然资源的价格推高的时候, |
| 35 | a number of African governments have introduced restrictions. | 一些非洲国家政府实行了限制。 |
| 36 | In June, the leading graphite producer Mozambique brought in a law that means exporting unprocessed minerals needs government approval. | 6月,主要的石墨生产商莫桑比克提出了一项法律,规定出口未经加工的矿物需要政府批准。 |
| 37 | It also gets a 15% stake in all mines. | 在所有矿井中也拥有15%的股份。 |
| 38 | Also in June, Guinea banned the export of unrefined gold in an effort to promote domestic processing, | 同样在6月,几内亚禁止出口未经精炼的黄金,以促进国内加工, |
| 39 | to try to boost the economy and create more jobs. | 努力推动经济,创造更多的就业机会。 |
| 40 | In July, Zimbabwe stopped the export of antimony and tungsten. | 7月,津巴布韦停止出口锑和钨。 |
| 41 | Lithium concentrate exports will be banned from January. | 锂浓缩出口自1月起禁止. |
| 42 | Now, that's crucial for electric vehicle batteries, and 10% of global supply comes from Zimbabwe. | 现在,这对电动汽车电池至关重要,全球10%的供应来自津巴布韦。 |
| 43 | In August, the Democratic Republic of Congo banned exports of copper and cobalt concentrate to bolster its economy. | 8月,刚果民主共和国禁止出口铜和钴浓缩物,以加强其经济。 |
| 44 | Copper, of course, is vital for conducting electricity. | 当然,铜对供电至关重要。 |
| 45 | October saw Ghana announce a plan to end exports of alumina, manganese, iron, and other unprocessed minerals by 2030. | 10月加纳宣布了一项计划在2030年之前结束铝、锰、铁和其他未加工矿物的出口。 |
| 46 | So with all that in mind, what role do the big mining companies play? | 因此,考虑到所有这些,大矿业公司发挥什么作用? |
| 47 | Well, the big names like Anglo-American, BHP, Rio Tinto, Tech, and Vale often invest hundreds of millions of dollars to get new projects up and running. | 英美,BHP,Rio Tinto,Tech,和Vale等大名 经常投资上亿美金 来启动新的项目 |
| 48 | They may help countries monetize their natural resources, but critics argue they make too much money for shareholders. | 它们可能有助于各国将其自然资源货币化,但批评者认为它们为股东赚的钱太多。 |
| 49 | So to find out where the balance lies, I've been speaking to the chief executive of the International Council on Mining and Metals. | 为了找出平衡点,我一直在跟国际矿业和金属理事会的首席执行官谈话。 |
| 50 | It represents about a third of the global metals and mining industry. | 它约占全球金属和采矿业的三分之一。 |
| 51 | Roritesh Dhawan, welcome to Talking Business. | 萝丽丝・达万 欢迎光临谈生意 |
| 52 | Good to have you here. | 很高兴你能来 |
| 53 | And look, we're talking about the importance of these sorts of minerals, these natural resources. | 你看,我们正在谈论这些矿物的重要性, 这些自然资源。 |
| 54 | They are used in our everyday lives in so many things that we probably don't even know. | 它们被用在我们日常生活中 如此之多的东西 我们可能甚至不知道。 |
| 55 | Just explain the significance of them. | 解释一下它们的意义 |
| 56 | Well, the very screen that you're watching this on comes from the ground. | 嗯,你正在看的屏幕 是从地面。 |
| 57 | Silicon, for example, is used in the devices like cell phones and laptops. | 例如,硅在手机和笔记本电脑等设备中使用。 |
| 58 | And then when you think about the electricity that powers them, that's all built on things like copper and nickel that are used in wiring and electronics. | 然后,当你想到这些电能时, 这些电能都建立在诸如铜和镍 用于电线和电子设备上。 |
| 59 | And even when you think about food, even that relies on metals and minerals, because potash, a mineral, is what's used to make fertilizer, which allows us to feed the nearly nine billion people on this earth. | 甚至当你想到食物的时候, 甚至那些依赖金属和矿物的东西, 因为Patash,一种矿物, 是用来制造肥料的, 它让我们可以养活地球上近90亿人。 |
| 60 | So it really is as simple as the fact that everything we touch, see and use comes from the ground. | 所以,这其实就和我们接触、看到和使用的一切来自地面的事实一样简单。 |
| 61 | It is either mined or it is grown. | 它要么是埋设的,要么是种植的。 |
| 62 | It's the only way we know how to get resources. | 这是我们知道如何获得资源的唯一方法. |
| 63 | And a lot of those resources are in Africa on the continent. | 许多这些资源都在非洲。 |
| 64 | Talk to you about its significance and its role in the global demand or certainly the supply to meet the demand for those minerals. | 与你们谈谈其重要性及其在全球需求中的作用,或满足这些矿物需求的供应。 |
| 65 | Geologically, Africa is almost unparalleled. | 在地质学上,非洲几乎无与伦比。 |
| 66 | It has really rich deposits of a range of metals and minerals that are used in technologies today, but increasingly in technologies of the future like copper, like iron ore, like bauxite, which is used to make aluminium. | 它拥有大量金属和矿物的矿藏,这些金属和矿物现今被用于技术领域,但越来越多地用于未来的技术领域,如铜,铁矿石,铝矿等,用于制造铝. |
| 67 | And then, of course, Africa is very rich in precious metals like platinum, diamonds and gold. | 然后,当然,非洲非常丰富 贵金属如铂,钻石和黄金。 |
| 68 | And Africa is currently underweight in its role in the global production of these metals and minerals, because although it holds some of the world's most significant deposits, | 目前,非洲在全球生产这些金属和矿物方面的作用不足,因为尽管非洲拥有世界上一些最重要的矿藏, |
| 69 | it still attracts a very low share of the world's exploration spending and therefore a very low share of the world's production of these metals and minerals. | 它仍然吸引着极低份额的世界勘探支出,因此占世界这些金属和矿物产量的极低份额。 |
| 70 | And so the key question we have is, can the next wave of mining be done in a way that allows for the kind of development that Africa has not seen in previous waves of mining growth? | 因此,我们所面临的关键问题是,下一个采矿浪潮能否以一种能够实现非洲在以往采矿增长浪潮中从未看到的那种发展的方式进行? |
| 71 | You say it's underway in terms of the exploration and extraction of those minerals. | 你说这些矿物的勘探和开采正在进行中 |
| 72 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 73 | What is holding it back? | 什么挡住了? |
| 74 | The main issue is political risk. | 主要问题是政治风险。 |
| 75 | Many people don't feel comfortable putting large amounts of capital into countries in Africa because the real or perceived risk of doing so is considered to be higher than what it would be in comparable jurisdictions like in Latin America, for example. | 许多人对向非洲国家投入大量资本感到不自在,因为这样做的实际风险或感觉风险被认为高于类似拉丁美洲的可比法域的风险。 |
| 76 | Now, mining is a very long term business. | 现在,采矿是一个非常长期的工作。 |
| 77 | It only pays back in decades. | 几十年后才还钱 |
| 78 | And so people need to have confidence that if they were to put billions of dollars, which is what a large mine involves, into the ground in Africa, that that investment will be protected, | 因此,人们需要有信心,如果他们要把数十亿美元, 也就是一个大型的矿井所涉及到的, 投入到非洲的地面上, |
| 79 | that there won't be arbitrary changes and things like tax laws that could affect the return on that investment, or in certain cases that their actual property won't be seized from them as what has happened in the past on the continent. | 也不会有任意的改变和诸如税法之类的东西 影响投资的回报, 或在某些情况下,他们的实际财产不会像过去一样被没收 |
| 80 | Now, many countries have taken steps to improve their investment climate and to give investors the certainty, but there's still a long way to go to give people the confidence to invest the significant sums over a long term basis. | 现在,许多国家已经采取措施改善投资环境,给投资者以确定性,但是要给人们长期投资大笔资金的信心,还有很长的路要走. |
| 81 | And on the flip side of that, whilst there might be some sympathy for those mining firms in terms of the security of its investment, I think Africa holds about 20% of minerals, but only 5% of that value is kept on the continent. | 与此相反的是,尽管在投资安全方面对这些矿业公司可能有一些同情,但我认为非洲拥有大约20%的矿产,但这一价值只有5%留在非洲大陆。 |
| 82 | The money is taken out of the country. | 钱从国取出. |
| 83 | I suppose the question is that fair? | 我想问题是公平吗? |
| 84 | And if not, how is the balance redressed? | 如果没有,如何纠正平衡? |
| 85 | So many people are looking at models that would allow for more of the value to be captured in country on the continent. | 许多人正在研究一些模型,这些模型可以使更多的价值在非洲大陆的国家中被抓住。 |
| 86 | Typically, that seemed to be done through downstream processing and beneficiation of those minerals. | 通常,这似乎是通过这些矿物的下游加工和施舍来实现的。 |
| 87 | So rather than exporting the rocks, essentially, they are converted into useful metal or ideally into the end product like batteries before they're exported. | 因此,与其出口岩石, 本质上,它们被转换成有用的金属, 或者理想地在出口之前转化为电池的终端产品。 |
| 88 | On paper, at least, that would lead to greater tax receipts, more jobs, higher value added staying in country. | 至少从纸面上讲,这将导致税收增加,就业机会增加,附加值增加,留在国内。 |
| 89 | But it's not so simple, because often the tax paid by those industries downstream or the jobs they create are actually far less than those that are created upstream on the mining side. | 但这并不简单,因为下游那些行业所缴纳的税费或他们所创造的工作岗位,实际上远低于采矿方面上游创造的岗位. |
| 90 | So I would argue that a better strategy for Africa would be to create additional value upstream in the mining operation rather than look to have downstream beneficiation, although that's certainly where the political interest currently lies. | 所以我认为,非洲更好的战略是 提高采矿业的上游价值 而不是下游的优势, 虽然这无疑是政治利益所在。 |
| 91 | Now, in a sort of fight back against some of the power of these big mining firms, we know that different governments on the continent have imposed export restrictions or they've added new rules that would, for example, in Mozambique, give the government 1 | 现在,为了反击这些大矿业公司的一些权力, 我们知道,非洲大陆的各国政府 施加了出口限制, 或者它们增加了新的规则, 比如,在莫桑比克, 给予政府15%的矿井。 |
| 92 | What is the implication? | 这是什么意思? |
| 93 | What is the impact of that on the industry? | 这对该行业有何影响? |
| 94 | And actually, does it just serve as a deterrent rather than anything else? | 实际上,它只是一种威慑,而不是其他任何东西? |
| 95 | It can be a deterrent, but it can also be a powerful positive force. | 它可以是一种威慑,但也可以是一种强大的积极力量。 |
| 96 | So an example of where it's been used, I think, in a fairly clever way is Indonesia, where there was a ban on the export of constant trade, but that was coupled with incentives and support for people to invest in the country. | 因此,我认为,一个相当聪明的例子是印度尼西亚, 在那里禁止持续贸易的出口, 但与此同时,还鼓励和支持人们投资。 |
| 97 | In the absence of that, just bans alone, like, for example, the ban on lithium unprocessed lithium out of Zimbabwe or in Guinea, can have unintended consequences of driving investment away because it spooks investors from thinking that arbitrary changes i | 如果不这样做,仅仅禁止,例如禁止从津巴布韦或几内亚出口未经加工的锂,就会产生非预期的后果,将投资推走,因为它使投资者不敢认为任意改变政策会对其商业前景产生重大影响。 |
| 98 | So I would urge great caution in how those are used, because if not done in the right way, they can have a significant long term chilling effect on attracting new investment. | 因此,我敦促在如何使用这些投资时要非常谨慎,因为如果不以正确的方式这样做,它们可以对吸引新的投资产生重大的长期冷却作用。 |
| 99 | Now, if similar moves in other industries tell us anything, it's that when export restrictions are put in place, when governments try to limit ownership of certain assets, it means that the industry isn't policing itself properly. | 现在,如果其他行业的类似举动告诉我们什么,就是当出口限制到位时,当政府试图限制某些资产的所有权时,意味着该行业本身没有适当维持治安. |
| 100 | I mean, is that a fair criticism? | 我的意思是,这是公平批评吗? |
| 101 | What role should your members play here in making sure that what they're doing is economically sound, but also that it is equitable, that everybody can benefit from these natural resources? | 你们的成员在这里应该发挥什么作用,确保他们正在做的事情在经济上是健全的,同时也是公平的,让每个人都能从这些自然资源中获益? |
| 102 | The biggest mining companies in the world, such as those that are members of ICMM, have an obligation and a responsibility to show leadership in how mining is done responsibly, fairly, and in the interests of the local population. | 世界上最大的采矿公司,如那些是采矿理事会成员的采矿公司,有义务也有责任在如何负责任地、公平地进行采矿和为当地人民的利益进行采矿方面发挥领导作用。 |
| 103 | And for the last 25 years, these companies have been doing just that. | 在过去的25年里,这些公司一直在这样做。 |
| 104 | Now, the challenge is that unfortunately that has not become the norm for the wider industry, because across the 26 members that are part of the ICMM, we have between us 650 sites in over 50 countries. | 现在,我们面临的挑战是,不幸的是,这还没有成为大工业的规范,因为作为国际采矿业理事会一部分的26个成员中,我们中间有50多个国家的650个场址。 |
| 105 | Now, that may sound like a lot, but to put that in context, there are something like 16,000 mines globally. | 现在,这听起来可能很多, 但从上下文来看, 全球有16000枚地雷。 |
| 106 | And the outcomes for people and the planet are influenced by what the majority of those do, rather than what a small number of leading companies do. | 给人和地球带来的结果 受到他们多数人的行为的影响 而不是少数主要公司的行为 |
| 107 | Because only when the majority of those 16,000 mines are operating responsibly can we be confident that this next rush for critical minerals won't be at the expense of people or the planet. | 因为只有在这16000个矿井中的大多数 都以负责任的方式运作的时候, 我们才能相信, 下一次对关键矿物的争夺 将不会牺牲人类或地球。 |
| 108 | Rory Testawan, really good to talk to you on the programme this week. | Rory Testawan, 很高兴能在这周的节目上和你谈谈. |
| 109 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 110 | So there is plenty of natural resources sitting in the ground across Africa, but by many measures it remains the world's poorest continent. | 因此,非洲各地都有大量自然资源,但从许多方面来看,它仍然是世界上最贫穷的大陆。 |
| 111 | According to the World Bank, 67% of all people living in extreme poverty are in sub-Saharan Africa. | 据世界银行统计,生活在赤贫中的67%的人生活在撒哈拉以南非洲。 |
| 112 | So for their governments, making the most of those natural resources is key to improving education, health care and living standards. | 因此,对其政府来说,充分利用这些自然资源是提高教育、保健和生活水平的关键。 |
| 113 | I've been discussing that with the chief economist of the African Development Bank. | 我一直在和非洲开发银行首席经济学家讨论这个问题。 |
| 114 | Kevin Orama, welcome to Talking Business. | 凯文·奥拉玛 欢迎光临谈生意 |
| 115 | Good to have you here. | 很高兴你能来 |
| 116 | And in this programme, we're looking at Africa's incredible natural resources, but whether the continent is making as much of them as it could and whether it could keep hold of more of that wealth. | 在这个计划中,我们正在研究非洲令人难以置信的自然资源, 但是这个大陆是否在尽可能多地开发这些资源, 以及它能否保持更多的财富。 |
| 117 | Talk to me about what happens right now. | 告诉我现在发生了什么 |
| 118 | How much wealth is Africa able to keep hold of and why is it so low? | 非洲能够保持多少财富,为什么财富如此之低? |
| 119 | Yeah, at the moment, Africa's natural resources is not really adding great value to Africa's growth and development for several reasons. | 目前,由于几个原因,非洲的自然资源并没有真正给非洲的增长和发展带来巨大的价值。 |
| 120 | So because of structural challenges and lack of technology, human capacity and also issues around industrial strategy, the continent has not been able to move up the value chain significantly. | 因此,由于结构性挑战和缺乏技术、人的能力,以及围绕工业战略的问题,非洲大陆未能大大提升价值链。 |
| 121 | And that is why African leaders and the African Development Bank, this moment, are really looking into how to create that strategy that allows the continent to be able to retain more value in its natural resources within the continent. | 正因为如此,非洲领导人和非洲开发银行,此时此刻,正在真正研究如何制定这一战略,使非洲大陆能够在非洲大陆的自然资源中保留更多的价值。 |
| 122 | The continent is growing very fast with regard to GDP, real GDP growth. | 非洲大陆在国内生产总值、实际国内生产总值增长方面增长很快。 |
| 123 | But if you look at the contributions of natural resources to this growth, it's about between. | 但是,如果你看看自然资源对这个增长的贡献, 它大约是介于两者之间。 |
| 124 | What is the biggest hurdle to achieving that? | 实现这一目标的最大障碍是什么? |
| 125 | What is holding it back? | 什么挡住了? |
| 126 | Adding value to them means that the continent needs the requisite infrastructure, energy, water, roads, rails and all these that are required not only to extract the minerals from the ground, | 增加其价值意味着非洲大陆需要必要的基础设施、能源、水、公路、铁路和所有不仅从地面开采矿物所需的基础设施, |
| 127 | but to add value to these minerals above ground so that it leads to inclusive growth and development for the continent. | 从而实现非洲大陆的包容性增长和发展。 |
| 128 | And infrastructure death in Africa is huge. | 非洲基础设施的死亡是巨大的。 |
| 129 | From the African Development Bank, we estimate that the continent needs over $402 billion in various aspects of infrastructure investments to be able to drive structural transformation and also to build the human capacity required to add value to those re | 我们从非洲开发银行估计,非洲大陆在基础设施投资的各个方面需要4 020多亿美元,才能推动结构转型,并建设必要的人力,增加这些资源的价值。 |
| 130 | But one of the major constraints is energy. | 但主要的制约因素之一是能量。 |
| 131 | We have over 600 million Africans still without access to electricity. | 我们有6亿多非洲人仍然得不到电力。 |
| 132 | And I would really encourage that the continent should move more towards minerals development agreements where we work with investors to invest in building those industries on the continent. | 我非常鼓励该大陆进一步走向矿物开发协定,我们与投资者合作,投资在非洲大陆建设这些工业。 |
| 133 | And through smart policies, we may be able to attract these global investors to invest in those natural resources where they are on the continent. | 通过明智的政策,我们也许能够吸引这些全球投资者投资于他们在非洲大陆的自然资源。 |
| 134 | But in the meantime, what governments in Africa are doing are imposing export restrictions to try and keep more of that wealth onshore. | 但与此同时,非洲各国政府正在实行出口限制,试图将更多的财富留在岸上。 |
| 135 | Is that the answer? | 这就是答案吗? |
| 136 | The answer to that question will be yes and no. | 这个问题的答案将是肯定的和否定的。 |
| 137 | Export restrictions can help countries to get more leverage in negotiation for those minerals that are being extracted from within their jurisdiction. | 出口限制可以帮助各国在谈判中为在其管辖范围内开采的矿物获得更大的影响力。 |
| 138 | But export restrictions alone cannot create market competitiveness. | 但是,单靠出口限制不能创造市场竞争力。 |
| 139 | So countries must balance their competitive advantage in terms of do we have the energy resources, the water resources, the technology and human capacity to add value to these minerals? | 因此,各国必须在我们的能源、水资源、技术和人力方面平衡其竞争优势,以便为这些矿物增值? |
| 140 | Because if you put restrictions and you don't have them, then those restrictions can lead to loss of market value. | 因为如果你施加限制而你没有这些限制,那么这些限制会导致市场价值的损失. |
| 141 | So for export restrictions to become valuable for African continent, that needs to be done at a Pan-African level where you have more regional strategies and fiscal policies that creates incentives to invest in those minerals for which we are restricting | 因此,要使出口限制对非洲大陆变得有价值,就需要在泛非一级这样做,在那里,你有更多的区域战略和财政政策,为投资于我们所限制出口的矿物创造激励措施,同时也为非洲大陆建设工业能力,以增加这些矿物的价值。 |
| 142 | Africa sort of caught between China and the United States when it comes to that demand for rare earth minerals and these natural resources, both pouring lots of money into the continent. | 非洲在对稀土矿物和这些自然资源的需求方面 处于中美之间,它们都为非洲大陆注入了大量的资金。 |
| 143 | How does Africa manage that money and make sure that it is used in the right way? | 非洲如何管理这笔钱,并确保以正确的方式使用这笔钱? |
| 144 | That is why I said first is the negotiation of those contracts. | 因此,我首先说谈判这些合同。 |
| 145 | First, the mining concession agreements for me should turn to minerals development agreements. | 首先,我的采矿特许权协定应该转向矿物开发协定。 |
| 146 | Because if those industries have been built next to those raw minerals, it will help invariably create jobs for youth in Africa. | 因为如果这些工业是在这些原始矿物旁边建造的,那必然会帮助非洲青年创造就业机会。 |
| 147 | And this is one of the key development goals that the continent needs to focus a lot more on now. | 这是非洲大陆现在需要更加注重的关键发展目标之一。 |
| 148 | And for us in Africa, my view is that it is not either or. | 对于我们非洲来说,我的看法是,它不是或者不是。 |
| 149 | All partners are welcome, but we need to make good deals, equitable partnerships, basically negotiating good deals with companies that want to invest in your countries, but also giving them enough incentives, because investors will only invest if the inve | 所有伙伴都是受欢迎的,但我们需要达成良好的交易,公平的伙伴关系,基本上与想在贵国投资的公司谈判好的交易,但也给予它们足够的奖励,因为投资者只有在投资盈利的情况下才会投资. |
| 150 | Could Africa be the world's factory? | 非洲能否成为世界工厂? |
| 151 | Could that be the solution? | 这能解决吗? |
| 152 | Yes, Africa has been the world's resource, a source for resources, but Africa can then become the world's factory for several reasons. | 是的,非洲一直是世界资源,是资源的来源,但非洲随后可以出于若干原因成为世界工厂。 |
| 153 | The cost of production is cost competitive. | 生产成本具有竞争力。 |
| 154 | The huge teaming population of African youths allows for cheaper labor in those factories, and then also for the sustainability imperative, reducing the carbon footprint of products. | 大批非洲青年聚集在一起,使这些工厂的劳动力更廉价,然后也使可持续性成为必要条件,减少了产品的碳足迹。 |
| 155 | Africa could be a place where the world can still have growth happening, but also reducing CO2 emissions and all the sustainable development goals that the world so much needs today could be achieved. | 非洲可以是一个世界仍然能够实现增长的地方,但也能够减少二氧化碳排放和世界今天非常需要的所有可持续发展目标。 |
| 156 | Kevin Orama, really good to talk to you on the program. | Kevin Orama 很高兴在节目上和你谈谈 |
| 157 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 158 | Thank you very much for having me. | 谢谢你邀请我 |
| 159 | Still to come, the promise of power. | 仍然要来,权力的承诺。 |
| 160 | As global demand for electricity grows, I'll speak to the boss of Hitachi Energy about how they are keeping the world plugged in. | 随着全球电力需求的增长,我会跟日立能源公司的老板谈谈他们是如何维持世界的。 |
| 161 | Welcome back to Talking Business. | 欢迎回来谈生意。 |
| 162 | Now we've been looking at Africa's natural resources and just how the wealth they create should be shared. | 现在,我们一直在研究非洲的自然资源, 以及如何分享它们创造的财富。 |
| 163 | But those minerals are in such huge demand, partly because of our need for electricity. | 但是,这些矿物的需求如此之大,部分原因是我们需要电力。 |
| 164 | And with oil and gas prices surging, thanks largely to the war in the Middle East, countries around the world are refocusing efforts on renewables. | 随着石油和天然气价格的飙升,主要由于中东的战争,世界各国正重新把精力集中在可再生能源上。 |
| 165 | The energy is needed to power AI data centers, advanced manufacturing and the so-called electrification of everything. | 需要能量来为人工智能数据中心、先进制造和所谓的一切电气化提供动力。 |
| 166 | And that's where firms like Hitachi Energy come in. | 这就是像Hitachi Energy这样的公司进来的地方。 |
| 167 | They build the equipment and infrastructure to power economies, but that needs vital raw materials, resources like copper from Africa for cables. | 它们建造设备和基础设施,为经济提供动力,但这需要重要的原材料,如非洲生产的铜作为电缆。 |
| 168 | 我和事务所的主管Andreas Schirrenberg谈过了 | |
| 169 | Welcome to Talking Business. | 欢迎光临商谈 |
| 170 | Good to have you here. | 很高兴你能来 |
| 171 | And look, in this program, we're looking at our insatiable appetite for raw materials and minerals that are primarily coming from Africa because of our need for electricity and that big push into renewables. | 看,在这个计划中,我们正在研究我们对于原料和矿物的无厌胃口, 这些原料和矿物主要来自非洲, 因为我们需要电力, 并且大力推动可再生能源。 |
| 172 | Talk to me right now about global demand for electricity. | 现在跟我谈谈全球电力需求。 |
| 173 | Where is it coming from? | 从何而来. |
| 174 | Why do we need so much? | 我们为什么需要这么多? |
| 175 | The demand for electrical energy is something which we see since a couple of years, and it's driven by electrification. | 电能需求是几年以来我们所看到的, 是由电气化驱动的。 |
| 176 | You know, with two energy crises going on or in the past, the demand for electrons was much, much higher just to diversify your needs and to being less dependent for molecules which you probably don't have. | 要知道,随着两个能源危机的发生或过去, 对电子的需求要高得多, 只是为了使你的需要多样化, 并且减少对分子的依赖, 而分子可能没有。 |
| 177 | So that's a less dependency on things like oil and gas and a push into electricity and also a demand for using it. | 所以,这对石油和天然气的依赖程度较低,对电力的推动, 以及对电力使用的需求。 |
| 178 | I'm thinking of things here like electric vehicles and AI data centers. | 我想的是电动车辆和人工智能数据中心 |
| 179 | Are you seeing a direct correlation between that and how busy you are as a business? | 你是否看到这和你的生意有多忙有直接关系? |
| 180 | Well, I think there's a correlation there. | 嗯,我想那里有关系。 |
| 181 | But needless to say, probably from my side, the AI data center and electrical vehicles as well are probably the cherry on the cake. | 但不用说,也许从我这边说,AI数据中心和电动车辆 也可能是蛋糕上的樱桃. |
| 182 | That's really electrifying industrial processes, the switching from gas or from oil to electrons. | 这是真正电气化的工业过程, 从天然气或石油转换到电子。 |
| 183 | And so it is part of your job to meet that demand, to supply the electricity that is needed. | 所以,这是你工作的一部分 满足这一需求, 供应需要的电力。 |
| 184 | Are you confident that you can do it, that you can step up to the challenge? | 你有信心你能做到吗? 你有能力迎接挑战吗? |
| 185 | Well, definitely this is one of our challenges because demand and supply is definitely not in balance. | 这绝对是我们的挑战之一 因为供求绝对不能平衡 |
| 186 | And one root cause for that is developing actual production capabilities for transformers and for the equipment takes a little bit longer than actually the installation of that. | 其中一个根本原因就是 发展变压器和设备的实际生产能力 比安装变压器要长一点 |
| 187 | So there is a gap. | 因此,有一个缺口。 |
| 188 | Itachi is investing around nine billion US dollars worldwide to expanding all our factories. | 伊塔奇正在世界范围内投资大约90亿美元,以扩大我们所有的工厂。 |
| 189 | What is it that you need, though, to meet that demand, whether that's copper that you need in the cables and the wiring, all sorts of rare earth minerals you might need in things like chip boards and high tech equipment. | 然而,你需要什么来满足这一需求, 无论是你需要的铜 在电缆和线缆, 各种稀土矿物,你可能需要 在像芯片板和高科技设备。 |
| 190 | Where is that coming from? | 这是从哪里来的? |
| 191 | Well, we are using a lot of commodities, of course, copper, electric steel, sometimes oil and transformers and other equipment. | 嗯,我们正在使用很多商品, 当然,铜,电钢, 有时石油和变压器和其他设备。 |
| 192 | And this is coming actually from a worldwide supply, some rare earth, maybe in our products, but not so much. | 这其实来自世界范围内的供给, 一些稀土,也许来自我们的产品, 但不是太多。 |
| 193 | The main part is actually steel and copper that's coming from a worldwide supply chain. | 大部分是钢和铜,它们来自全球供应链。 |
| 194 | Now, by all estimates, about 20 percent of all the world's natural minerals and resources are in the continent of Africa. | 现在,据所有估计, 世界上所有天然矿物和资源的 20% 都在非洲大陆。 |
| 195 | What role does that play for you? | 那对你有什么作用? |
| 196 | How important is Africa for your business? | 非洲对你的生意有多重要? |
| 197 | I think Africa is very important, but on the other hand, we are not directly exposed to raw materials. | 我认为非洲非常重要,但另一方面,我们没有直接接触原材料。 |
| 198 | What we are sourcing is already produced materials like copper with paper insulations, electric steel, which is already processed. | 我们所采购的,已经生产出铜等材料,并配有隔热纸,电钢,已经加工. |
| 199 | But of course, we are very, very eager looking into the supply chains and looking what we need to secure what actually is needed for the next couple of years. | 当然,我们非常急切地关注供应链, 并研究我们需要什么来保证未来几年的实际需要。 |
| 200 | Now, as you said, you are the pipes and the cables. | 现在,正如你说的,你是管道和电缆。 |
| 201 | You're not necessarily the generators of that electricity. | 你不一定是那台电的发电机 |
| 202 | I suppose we take you for granted. | 我想我们把你当成理所当然的。 |
| 203 | You know, we only know about you when things go wrong. | 你知道,我们只知道你 当事情出了问题。 |
| 204 | I mean, how frustrating is that as a business? | 我的意思是,这是多么令人沮丧 作为一个生意? |
| 205 | Well, I would say a couple of years ago, probably that was the right statement. | 好吧,我想说几年前, 也许这是正确的声明。 |
| 206 | But nowadays, the grid has become definitely an item of discussion because the grid is at the moment the bottleneck, | 但如今,电网已经绝对成为讨论项目, 因为电网是当前瓶颈, |
| 207 | because your grid to expand that takes longer time than expected. | 因为你的网格扩张需要比预期更长的时间 |
| 208 | And regulations and a lot of red tape is not making it better. | 条例和很多繁文缛节并不能改善它。 |
| 209 | What is the hardest bit about your job right now? | 你现在的工作最难的是什么? |
| 210 | You talk there about some of the frustrations, maybe some of the restrictions on you just being able to get on with your job. | 你在那里谈论一些挫折感, 也许一些限制 你只是能够继续你的工作。 |
| 211 | What's the hardest thing to overcome? | 什么是最难克服的? |
| 212 | I think the hardest thing to overcome is to grow. | 我觉得最难克服的是成长 |
| 213 | You know, we have a good backlog. | 你知道,我们有一个很好的积压。 |
| 214 | We have a lot of products we have to supply. | 我们有很多产品要提供 |
| 215 | We are investing heavily in our manufacturing footprint. | 我们正在对制造足迹进行大量投资。 |
| 216 | We are hiring people every year, a couple of thousand more and making such a big company grow significantly, double digit year over year for a rather long time. | 我们每年都在雇用员工, 还要再雇用几千人, 并且让这样一个大公司 年复一年地大幅增长, 两位数相当长的时间。 |
| 217 | It's definitely something which keeps me awake at night. | 这绝对是 让我在晚上清醒。 |
| 218 | Andreas Schirrenbeck, really good to talk to you on the programme this week. | 安德里亚斯·施伦贝克 本周的节目很愉快 |
| 219 | Thanks for being with us. | 谢谢你陪我们 |
| 220 | Thank you for having me. | 谢谢你邀请我 |
| 221 | That's all for this week. | 就这周 |
| 222 | You can keep up to date with all the latest on the global economy on the BBC News website and app. | 您可以在英国广播公司新闻网站和app上及时了解全球经济的最新消息。 |
| 223 | But until next time, thanks for watching and we'll see you soon. | 但下次,谢谢你的观看,我们会很快见到你。 |
| 224 | Bye bye. | 再见 |
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