（中英附文稿） 亲子关系已经疏远，还能做些什么？从承担责任到
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | there seems like there are more broken relationships now more than ever, especially between parents | 似乎现在有 更多的破碎的关系 现在比任何时候都多, 尤其是父母之间 |
| 0:09 | and adult children. | 和成年儿童。 |
| 0:11 | It's almost near epidemic level. | 几乎接近流行程度. |
| 0:13 | What can we do to repair these broken | 我们能做什么来修复这些破碎的 |
| 0:19 | relationships? | 关系? |
| 0:20 | There's this huge study that came out in 2023, thousands of people, and I found that | 2023年出产的大型研究 成千上万的人 我发现 |
| 0:24 | one in four people had cut off contact with a family member at some point in their life. | 在他们生命的某个时刻,每四人中就有一人切断了与一个家庭成员的联系。 |
| 0:28 | And | 还有 |
| 0:28 | I specialize in estrangement. | 我擅长疏远。 |
| 0:30 | I'm a therapist. | 我是心理医生 |
展开字幕全文（248 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | there seems like there are more broken relationships now more than ever, especially between parents | 似乎现在有 更多的破碎的关系 现在比任何时候都多, 尤其是父母之间 |
| 2 | and adult children. | 和成年儿童。 |
| 3 | It's almost near epidemic level. | 几乎接近流行程度. |
| 4 | What can we do to repair these broken | 我们能做什么来修复这些破碎的 |
| 5 | relationships? | 关系? |
| 6 | There's this huge study that came out in 2023, thousands of people, and I found that | 2023年出产的大型研究 成千上万的人 我发现 |
| 7 | one in four people had cut off contact with a family member at some point in their life. | 在他们生命的某个时刻,每四人中就有一人切断了与一个家庭成员的联系。 |
| 8 | And | 还有 |
| 9 | I specialize in estrangement. | 我擅长疏远。 |
| 10 | I'm a therapist. | 我是心理医生 |
| 11 | I have clinical practice. | 我有临床实践。 |
| 12 | I have a group where | 我有一个团体 |
| 13 | we kind of have parents and adult kids in the same group. | 我们有种父母和成年孩子 在同一组。 |
| 14 | We work through a program for | 我们通过一个程序为 |
| 15 | family conflict. | 家庭冲突。 |
| 16 | And it's like, I don't know, when you first kind of hear about it, most people don't | 就像,我不知道, 当你第一次听到它,大多数人不 |
| 17 | know what the word estrangement means. | 知道什么是"离间"的意思。 |
| 18 | How do you define it? | 你怎么定义它? |
| 19 | Well, yeah. | 对 |
| 20 | So when I talk to people, | 所以当我和别人说话时 |
| 21 | it's like, well, I specialize in estrangement. | 这就像,嗯,我专门 疏远。 |
| 22 | They're like, what's that? | 他们喜欢,那是什么? |
| 23 | Sounds strange. | 听起来很奇怪。 |
| 24 | When you're cut off from a family member, that can be one version of it. | 当你与家人断绝关系时,这可以是其一种版本. |
| 25 | You don't talk to your mom, | 你不跟你妈说话 |
| 26 | you don't talk to your dad, you don't talk to your brother. | 你不和你爸爸说话,也不和哥哥说话 |
| 27 | But it could also be when there's | 但也可能是当有 |
| 28 | just a bunch of elephants in the room and it's kind of like you're emotionally just walled off | 房间里只有一群大象 感觉就像你只是被挡在墙上 |
| 29 | from them. | 从他们。 |
| 30 | Like maybe you see them at Christmas, maybe you see them at, I don't know, maybe you | 就像你圣诞节见到他们一样, 也许你看见他们,我不知道,也许你 |
| 31 | send like a birthday text. | 发送像生日短信。 |
| 32 | But generally, if you're in the same room, you're keeping a pretty surface | 但一般情况下,如果你在同一间房里, 你保持一个漂亮的表面 |
| 33 | and it just feels like, gosh, I'm basically, we're family, so I see them when I have to, | 感觉就像,天哪,我基本上, 我们是一家人, 所以我看到他们 当我不得不, |
| 34 | but I'm not putting in a ton of emotional energy into the relationship. | 但我不会把一吨的情感能量 投入到关系。 |
| 35 | I'm with you. | 我与汝为伴. |
| 36 | So what I see | 我所见所见 |
| 37 | it as, by the way, how I, we do the show is it really is just a conversation. | 顺便说一句,我,我们做这个节目 真的是一场对话 |
| 38 | So if you're | 如果你是的话 |
| 39 | curious about something, ask. | 好奇什么,问。 |
| 40 | If I'm curious about something, I'm going to ask. | 若有奇事,必问之. |
| 41 | So I see it when you | 所以当你看见它 |
| 42 | go, okay, if we're going to define what estrangement is, if somebody's not familiar with it, do they | 去吧,好吧,如果我们要 定义什么是离散, 如果有人不熟悉它,做他们 |
| 43 | know what it feels like? | 知道是什么感觉吗? |
| 44 | It can either be a full connection is closed. | 或者是完全连接关闭了 |
| 45 | They do not respond to my | 他们不回应我 |
| 46 | texts. | 发文。 |
| 47 | They do not answer my calls. | 他们不接我的电话。 |
| 48 | It is closed. | 它关闭了。 |
| 49 | Or you're saying there's also the same effect | 或者你说还有同样的效果 |
| 50 | of estrangement is you only see each other at the holidays and you really don't know each other. | 离别是你们只在节日见面 而你们真的不认识对方 |
| 51 | That's more of like what I would think of is it's strained. | 这更像是我想的 它很紧张 |
| 52 | Like it's, we're there, but when we get | 就像它,我们在那里,但当我们得到 |
| 53 | there, we know this isn't real life. | 我们知道这不是真正的生活 |
| 54 | Like this isn't, or there's something, like you said, elephant | 就像你说过的 大象一样 |
| 55 | in the room that has a, when people are talking to you about it, usually what's the one that | 在房间里,当人们谈论它的时候, 通常是什么 |
| 56 | they're most struggling with? | 他们在挣扎吗? |
| 57 | It depends if you're a parent or a kid. | 这取决于你是父母还是孩子。 |
| 58 | I mean, I think that | 我的意思是,我觉得 |
| 59 | most of the kids that I talk to start in the strained camp. | 大部分孩子,我说话开始 在紧张的营地。 |
| 60 | They're just like, | 他们就像, |
| 61 | man, I feel really exhausted in my relationship with my mom or my dad. | 男人,我觉得我真的很疲惫 与我的妈妈或我爸爸的关系。 |
| 62 | Kid meaning not like young kid, meaning in reference to the parents who are an adult. | 小孩的意思是不像小孩, 指父母是成年人。 |
| 63 | So an adult kid who's just like thinking about mom or dad, maybe you're in my 20s or 30s or 40s. | 所以,一个成年的孩子,谁就像 想妈妈或爸爸, 也许你在我的20或30或40。 |
| 64 | I'm | и琌 |
| 65 | like, man, I just feel exhausted around my parent. | 就像,伙计,我只是感觉疲惫 在我的父母身边。 |
| 66 | I feel like I can't really tell them things. | 我觉得我不能真正告诉他们事情。 |
| 67 | I | 一、导 言 |
| 68 | feel like they jump in with unsolicited advice all the time. | 感觉像他们跳进 未经请求的建议所有的时间。 |
| 69 | And I'm just kind of like nodding | 我只是有点像点头 |
| 70 | through it and I'm gritting through it. | 穿过它,我正在咬它。 |
| 71 | And then I talk to people kind of on that stage. | 然后我和舞台上的人交谈 |
| 72 | And then | 礛 |
| 73 | maybe it gets to the point where it's just like, hey, to protect my mental health, to protect my | 也许它得到的点 它只是喜欢,嘿, 保护我的心理健康, 保护我的 |
| 74 | peace, I think I need to set up some boundaries here. | 和平,我想我需要在这里建立一些界限。 |
| 75 | And then if those boundaries aren't engaged, | 如果那些界限没有被设定 |
| 76 | accepted, maybe sometimes a parent jumps in and takes that as a gesture of disrespect or is | 被接受,也许有时候父母会跳进去 把它当作不尊重的姿态 |
| 77 | frustrated, is intrusive anyway, then it can really lead to just no contact. | 沮丧,是侵入性反正, 那么它真的可以导致 只是没有接触。 |
| 78 | And so that's | 这就是 |
| 79 | the story I hear most from people, maybe our age, you know, and like maybe people who grew up on the | 我从人们那里听到的故事最多, 也许我们这个年龄,你知道的, 和像也许人们 谁长大了 |
| 80 | internet. | 互联网。 |
| 81 | Or is it mid 30s? | 还是30多岁? |
| 82 | Yeah, mid 30s, 40s. | 对,30到40岁 |
| 83 | I mean, anyone can be a strange, but like, | 我的意思是,任何人都可以是 一个奇怪的,但喜欢, |
| 84 | for sure. | 当然 |
| 85 | Then on the parent side, I think the conversation comes mostly when that no contact | 然后在父母一方,我认为谈话 大部分时候,没有接触 |
| 86 | is hit, because for a lot of parents, they're really surprised. | 因为对很多父母来说 他们真的很惊讶 |
| 87 | What's really interesting in | 什么才是真正有趣的东西 |
| 88 | the lit is like the thing that often leads to a cutoff estrangement is almost always a surprise | 灯光就像 经常导致断线 离间几乎总是一个惊喜 |
| 89 | to the parent. | 给父母的 |
| 90 | Right. | 对 |
| 91 | And it feels very small. | 感觉很小 |
| 92 | So Carl Pilmer out of Cornell has talked about this, | 所以卡尔・皮尔默出 康奈尔已经谈到这一点, |
| 93 | out of Australia, she both researchers, they've talked about this a lot, is like, | 在澳大利亚,她两个研究者, 他们已经谈论了很多,就像, |
| 94 | is something like a comment about your new tattoo? | 你的新纹身有评论吗? |
| 95 | Or something you thought was like a, | 或者你认为是像... |
| 96 | you thought was a compliment? | 你以为是恭维吗? |
| 97 | Yeah, just a trivial whatever, or like, you know, | 是啊,只是一个微不足道的东西, 或者喜欢,你知道, |
| 98 | you should probably make a budget, you know, even like a little piece of advice. | 你应该做一个预算, 你知道,甚至像一个小建议。 |
| 99 | And then the kid's | 然后那个孩子 |
| 100 | like, I'm done. | 我受够了 |
| 101 | Right. | 对 |
| 102 | And then parents like, what was that? | 然后父母喜欢, 那是什么? |
| 103 | What was that? | 你说什么? |
| 104 | Like, and then what is | 喜欢,然后是什么 |
| 105 | often the case is there was a pattern of behavior that really created a lot of strain in the | 经常有一种行为模式, 真正造成很多压力 |
| 106 | relationship that maybe the parent was aware of, maybe not. | 也许父母知道,也许不知道 |
| 107 | Often the parents aware that like, | 通常父母知道, |
| 108 | well, I'm noticing my kid pull back, like I'm noticing that they're giving me these one word | 好吧,我注意到我的孩子 退后,就像我注意到 他们给我一个字 |
| 109 | texts, or I have to call, like they're never initiating conversation. | 短信,或者我不得不打电话, 就像他们从来没有启动谈话。 |
| 110 | I'm always the one | 永远是我 |
| 111 | asked to initiate. | 请求启动。 |
| 112 | I'm always the one making plans. | 我总是在计划 |
| 113 | They're pulling away. | 他们正在撤退。 |
| 114 | Yeah, I feel they're | 是啊,我觉得他们 |
| 115 | pulling away. | 离开。 |
| 116 | But then they cut me off for this trivial reason. | 但后来他们因为这个微不足道的原因把我截断了. |
| 117 | And they're like, what, you're | 他们喜欢,什么,你是 |
| 118 | just discarding the relationship over that? | 就这么抛弃关系? |
| 119 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 120 | And then it feels like, oh, this must be some | 然后感觉,哦,这一定是一些 |
| 121 | like cultural trend. | 就像文化潮流一样 |
| 122 | 这是因为TikTok。 | |
| 123 | This is because therapists are kind of turning | 因为治疗师在转弯 |
| 124 | kids against their parents. | 孩子们和父母对着干 |
| 125 | Right. | 对 |
| 126 | And I'm like, well, hold on. | 我就像,嗯,坚持住。 |
| 127 | When you zoom out and hear the | 当你放大并听到 |
| 128 | whole story, there's often those elephants in the room and they all had to sit on the kid's lap. | 整个故事 房间里经常有大象 他们都得坐在孩子的腿上 |
| 129 | And then it just got bigger and bigger until the kid was like, I can't. | 然后,它只是越来越大 直到孩子喜欢,我不能。 |
| 130 | I see it when for the | 我看到它何时 |
| 131 | purposes of our discussion, when we say estrangement, I want to use the definition that's just total | 我们讨论的目的,当我们说离间, 我想使用这个定义 只是总 |
| 132 | cutoff. | 截断. |
| 133 | Like we're breaking things off. | 就像我们要分手一样 |
| 134 | I cannot reach them anymore. | 我再也联系不到他们了 |
| 135 | I do find that when I first | 我第一次就发现 |
| 136 | talked about it as kind of a trend, especially on social media, it's like, it becomes a thing | 谈论它是一种趋势, 特别是在社交媒体上, 它就像,它变成了一件事 |
| 137 | that is more accepted. | 这一点得到更多的接受。 |
| 138 | Like there was a time when divorce was not as accepted. | 仿佛有一段时间离婚没有被接受。 |
| 139 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 140 | I was extremely | 我当时很紧张 |
| 141 | accepted. | 已经接受。 |
| 142 | And there was a time when estrangement was not. | 也曾有段时间 疏远没有。 |
| 143 | And now whether the data shows that it's | 现在数据是否表明 |
| 144 | more often or not, it's certainly more verbal, you know, it's more out and about. | 更经常地或不经常地,它肯定更口头的,你知道的,它更多的出和关于。 |
| 145 | Hashtag use more. | 哈斯塔格多用一点 |
| 146 | Exactly. | 没错 |
| 147 | And so it's become more of like, this is what I'm doing for me and my health. | 因此,它变得更像, 这就是我为我做的,我的健康。 |
| 148 | And like, | 喜欢, |
| 149 | this is a thumbs up for you kind of trend that you're seeing in the data as you being an expert | 这对你来说是个大拇指 你作为专家在数据中看到的趋势 |
| 150 | in this. | 在这里。 |
| 151 | Here's the question I want to ask, because I think you raised a really good point. | 我想问一个问题,因为我觉得你提了一个很好的问题。 |
| 152 | At what point does a parent know that estrangement is happening? | 父母知道离散是什么时候发生的? |
| 153 | Because my gut tells me | 因为我的直觉告诉我 |
| 154 | estrangement doesn't begin at the last conversation. | 离散不是从上次谈话开始的 |
| 155 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 156 | There's two versions of this. | 此有二种说法. |
| 157 | One is where the kid pulls away and then just stops responding without an announcement, | 一个是孩子离开的地方 然后就停止回应了,没有宣布 |
| 158 | without like a boundary list, without like a mom, you got to do this or this or this, | 没有像一个边界列表, 没有像一个妈妈, 你必须做到这一点或这个或这个, |
| 159 | or I'm going to cut you off. | 否则我就砍掉你 |
| 160 | Like there's no negotiation. | 譬如无交涉. |
| 161 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 162 | There's no disclosure. | 无有披露. |
| 163 | It literally is just we moved that happens sometimes. | 它的字面意义只是我们移动 有时会发生。 |
| 164 | I stopped responding to the text | 我不再回话了 |
| 165 | or the text went, you know, green, like I got blocked. | 或者短信被删除,你知道,绿色, 就像我被封锁。 |
| 166 | And then the parent is really just left | 然后父母真的离开了 |
| 167 | to try to make sense of a bunch of fragments of what happened. | 试图解释 一堆碎片 发生了什么事。 |
| 168 | And that is disorienting and | 这确是悖逆的, |
| 169 | overwhelming for so many parents. | 对这么多父母来说是压倒性的 |
| 170 | In other words, there's an immediate without announcement exit. | 换句话说,有一个即时而不宣布退出. |
| 171 | Yep. | 对 |
| 172 | Just exit. | 刚刚离开。 |
| 173 | Just enough is enough. | 足够就足够了。 |
| 174 | That's one avenue. | 那是一条路 |
| 175 | And then the second is there's some | 其次,还有一些 |
| 176 | conflict, but like I said, most of the time it's over something small and then the kid | 冲突,但正如我所说, 大部分时间都是在小事上,然后孩子 |
| 177 | stops talking. | 停止说话。 |
| 178 | And so then that's disorienting because it seems like, well, we were just talking | 所以这很不引人入胜 因为看起来我们只是聊聊 |
| 179 | about the new tattoo or they said, don't, you know, get presents for my kids for Christmas. | 关于新纹身,或者他们说, 不要,你知道, 为我的孩子圣诞节得到礼物。 |
| 180 | It was just one thing. | 这只是一件事。 |
| 181 | It's just one snow globe. | 它只是一个雪球。 |
| 182 | Like it really, that's it. | 就像真的一样,就是这样。 |
| 183 | And so they're almost | 所以他们几乎 |
| 184 | kind of focused in on the last conversation when really it's like the history of the relationship | 那种专注于最后的谈话 当它真的像 关系的历史 |
| 185 | was it. | 对 |
| 186 | And here's what happens in the mind of many adult kids is it's like, man, mom won't come | 而许多成年孩子的心思是这样的 就像是 妈妈不会来了 |
| 187 | towards me and hear me about the snow globe. | 听到我对着雪球的声音 |
| 188 | She's not going to come towards me around this | 她不会来找我的 |
| 189 | bigger thing. | 更大的东西。 |
| 190 | If we can't even have a good conversation around something trivial, why would | 如果我们不能好好谈谈一些无关紧要的事情 为什么 |
| 191 | I trust that she can handle the big things in my heart? | 我相信她能处理我心中的大事? |
| 192 | And so it just feels like I'm just going | 所以,它只是感觉像我只是去 |
| 193 | to say, Hey, mom, you know, you've been intrusive or you kind of give me advice all the time, | 说,嘿,妈妈,你知道, 你一直侵入 或者你给我的建议所有的时间, |
| 194 | or you keep making comments about my weight or you're really rude to my spouse and or you're | 或者你继续评论我的体重 或者你对我的配偶很粗鲁 或者你... |
| 195 | critical towards my kids or you'd make comments about cleanliness in my house all the time. | 要不然你总是在我家 发表关于清洁的评论 |
| 196 | And then I'm like, am I really going to get anything out of that conversation? | 然后我就想,我真的会 从谈话中得到什么? |
| 197 | If I bring | 如果我带来了 |
| 198 | that up with mom, is she going to be like, Oh, wow, you know what? | 和妈妈在一起 她会像,哦,哇,你知道吗? |
| 199 | You're right. | 你说得对 |
| 200 | I find like I'm | 我发现就像我 |
| 201 | being, you know, so it's like, I guess I'm just going to pull back because it's not worth it. | 我觉得我该撤退了 因为这不值得 |
| 202 | And there's this feeling of, I'm going to be totally triggered, totally thrown off for the | 有一种感觉,我要被完全触发, 完全抛出,因为 |
| 203 | next few days because it's going to turn into some sort of yelling match. | 接下来的几天,因为它会变成某种大喊大叫的比赛。 |
| 204 | And then she's going to like | 然后她会喜欢 |
| 205 | call me ungrateful and disrespectful. | 叫我忘恩负义和不敬 |
| 206 | It's just going to be, so I'm just going to pull back. | 它只是要去, 所以我只是要拉回来。 |
| 207 | What I hear is, Jefferson, I already know how it's going to go. | 我听到的是 杰斐逊 我已经知道会怎样 |
| 208 | Because based on my history, | 因为根据我的历史 |
| 209 | you know, when I can go back to my inner child of like, at eight years old and she put me in my room | 你知道,当我可以回到我的内在孩子 喜欢,在八岁 她把我在我的房间 |
| 210 | and said, this is what's going to happen. | 并说,这是会发生的。 |
| 211 | And because I said so, and that element of control, | 因为我说, 和这个控制要素, |
| 212 | I can't undo, she's not going to, she didn't hear me then. | 我不能解除,她不会去, 她当时没有听到我。 |
| 213 | She's not going to hear me now. | 她现在听不到我了 |
| 214 | And anytime I want to make sure in this conversation, when we say she's not, it's also, | 每当我想确定 在这个谈话中, 当我们说她不是,它也是, |
| 215 | he's not mom or dad, any point in time. | 他不是妈妈或爸爸,任何时间点。 |
| 216 | So if we're going, because I really want to make sure that | 所以,如果我们去, 因为我真的想确保 |
| 217 | I give tools that you and I both give tools for the parent who's listening, as well as maybe it's | 我给工具,你和我都给工具 父母谁在听,也许它 |
| 218 | relative who's listening, brother or sister or child who's listening. | 亲戚在听,兄弟或姐妹或孩子在听。 |
| 219 | So first in this pocket, | 所以首先在这个口袋里, |
| 220 | I want to talk about parent. | 我想谈谈父母的事。 |
| 221 | So what can a parent do right now who's listening and goes, | 那么,一个父母现在能做什么 谁在听和去, |
| 222 | I haven't spoken to my child in three years. | 我三年没跟孩子说话了 |
| 223 | I want there to be something. | 我想有东西。 |
| 224 | Usually when I hear | 通常当我听到 |
| 225 | from them, I bet when you hear from them, they're wanting something, they're wanting that door to | 我敢打赌,当你听到他们的消息, 他们想要的东西, 他们想要那扇门到 |
| 226 | be open. | 打开 |
| 227 | And they're just, they're at an absolute loss for what to do. | 而他们只是, 他们处于一个绝对的损失 做什么。 |
| 228 | Because anything that feels | 因为任何感觉 |
| 229 | like showing love or opening a door feels like to the other person control and not listening | 喜欢展示爱 或打开一个门 感觉像其他人控制 而不是听 |
| 230 | and shutting the door. | 关上门 |
| 231 | This episode is sponsored by Zoc Doc. | 本集由佐克·多克赞助. |
| 232 | I know because you're human and I'm | 我知道,因为你是人类,我是 |
| 233 | human that there is a doctor's appointment that you should be scheduling right now, but you haven't | 人类有一个医生的预约 你现在应该安排, 但你没有 |
| 234 | done it yet. | 还没完成呢 |
| 235 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 236 | Because life. | 因为生活。 |
| 237 | I know I have an appointment that I certainly need to make and I've | 我知道我有一个约会 我当然需要做,我已经 |
| 238 | it off for far too long. | 它关闭太久了。 |
| 239 | Zoc Doc has helped me with that and it's going to help you. | Zoc Doc帮助了我 这会帮你的 |
| 240 | What Zoc Doc | 什么佐克医生 |
| 241 | does is it is an online database of all these doctors that are in network and local to you | 这是否是一个在线数据库 列出所有这些医生 在网络和本地对你来说 |
| 242 | that it can show not only are they in close by, are they in network, regardless of what kind of | 不仅能显示他们身边的人 是否在网络中 |
| 243 | specialty they're in also sets appointments right then and there. | 他们的专长是同时安排预约 |
| 244 | You can see what booking slots | 你可以看到什么订位 |
| 245 | they have available. | 他们有可用的。 |
| 246 | So you're not having to go back and forth with the dermatologist front | 所以你不用和皮肤科医生一起来回 |
| 247 | office and hopefully they're ringing five times, they're not having to go back and forth with the | 办公室和希望他们 响五次, 他们不用 与前后 |
| 248 | dermatologist front office and hopefully they're ringing five times. And hopefully they're both | 皮肤科医生前沿办公室 希望他们能打五次电话 希望他们都是 |
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