【Nov.9】Business Today | BBC 今日
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | Hello and welcome to Talking Business. | 欢迎光临"谈生意" |
| 0:04 | Here's what's on the programme this week. | 本周节目内容如下. |
| 0:07 | Digging up the dollars, can Africa hold on to more of the wealth that its metals and minerals | 挖出美元,非洲能拥有更多的财富吗? |
| 0:12 | are creating? | 正在创建 ? |
| 0:13 | As a growing number of countries put restrictions on the export of raw materials, | 随着越来越多的国家限制原材料出口, |
| 0:18 | just how easy would it be for Africa to create the jobs and prosperity they're seeking? | 在非洲,创造他们寻求的就业机会和繁荣是多么容易? |
| 0:23 | I'll discuss that with these two, the head of the International Council on Mining and Metals | 我会和这两个人讨论, 采矿和金属国际理事会的负责人 |
| 0:28 | represents some of the world's biggest mining companies. | 代表着世界上一些最大的矿业公司。 |
| 0:31 | He tells us how the industry is helping. | 他告诉我们这个行业有什么帮助 |
| 0:34 | And the chief economist of the African Development Bank tells us why the continent's future depends | 非洲开发银行首席经济学家告诉我们,为什么非洲大陆的未来取决于 |
展开字幕全文（386 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Hello and welcome to Talking Business. | 欢迎光临"谈生意" |
| 2 | Here's what's on the programme this week. | 本周节目内容如下. |
| 3 | Digging up the dollars, can Africa hold on to more of the wealth that its metals and minerals | 挖出美元,非洲能拥有更多的财富吗? |
| 4 | are creating? | 正在创建 ? |
| 5 | As a growing number of countries put restrictions on the export of raw materials, | 随着越来越多的国家限制原材料出口, |
| 6 | just how easy would it be for Africa to create the jobs and prosperity they're seeking? | 在非洲,创造他们寻求的就业机会和繁荣是多么容易? |
| 7 | I'll discuss that with these two, the head of the International Council on Mining and Metals | 我会和这两个人讨论, 采矿和金属国际理事会的负责人 |
| 8 | represents some of the world's biggest mining companies. | 代表着世界上一些最大的矿业公司。 |
| 9 | He tells us how the industry is helping. | 他告诉我们这个行业有什么帮助 |
| 10 | And the chief economist of the African Development Bank tells us why the continent's future depends | 非洲开发银行首席经济学家告诉我们,为什么非洲大陆的未来取决于 |
| 11 | on making the most of what it digs up today. | 尽量利用它今天挖掘出来的东西 |
| 12 | Plus, I'll speak to the boss of Hitachi Energy | 再说,我跟日立能源公司的老板说 |
| 13 | about how demand for Africa's resources is being charged by a never-ending need for power, | 关于对非洲资源的需求是如何因对权力的永无止境的需求而得到满足的, |
| 14 | with the boom in electric cars and AI data centres. | 电动汽车和AI数据中心的繁荣 |
| 15 | Wherever you're watching, welcome to the programme. | 无论你们在看什么 欢迎参加节目 |
| 16 | Global demand for natural resources is soaring. | 全球对自然资源的需求正在猛增。 |
| 17 | The switch to electric vehicles, | 换成电动车辆 |
| 18 | the growth of data centres and green energy are just some of the reasons why the world needs more | 数据中心和绿色能源的增长只是世界需要更多能源的一些原因。 |
| 19 | raw materials like lithium, graphite and copper. | 锂,石墨和铜等原材料. |
| 20 | Many see Africa as a continent full of potential. | 许多人认为非洲是一个充满潜力的大陆。 |
| 21 | But as demand grows, can it keep hold of its own natural wealth? | 但随着需求的增长,它能否保持自身的自然财富? |
| 22 | And can that bring the prosperity | 这能带来繁荣 |
| 23 | its people want? | 它的人民想要吗? |
| 24 | This year, a growing number of governments have put export restrictions on | 今年,越来越多的政府对出口施加限制。 |
| 25 | their raw materials as they aim to keep more of the wealth that they generate domestically. | 他们的原材料是为了保持他们在国内创造的财富。 |
| 26 | It's thought Africa holds around 20% of the world's mineral wealth, worth around 29.5 trillion dollars. | 人们认为非洲占世界矿产财富的20%左右,价值约29.5万亿美元. |
| 27 | And that matters because nature-based sectors provide around | 这很重要,因为自然部门提供 |
| 28 | two thirds of all employment in many African countries. | 许多非洲国家就业总数的三分之二。 |
| 29 | But where are all those natural resources going? | 但所有这些自然资源都流向何处? |
| 30 | Well, China has become the top export destination in recent years because of its appetite for raw | 中国近些年来 由于其对生菜的胃口 成为了最大的出口目的地 |
| 31 | materials. | 材料。 |
| 32 | China also processes many of those resources they needed for the goods it produces, | 中国还加工生产商品所需的许多资源, |
| 33 | accounting for more than a quarter of global manufacturing. | 占全球制造业的四分之一以上。 |
| 34 | The US and other advanced economies also want Africa's resources. | 美国和其他发达经济体也想要非洲的资源。 |
| 35 | And as a result, | 结果 |
| 36 | the African Union suggests only 5% of their value is kept on the continent. | 非洲联盟建议,非洲大陆只保留5%的价值。 |
| 37 | This is Africa's great paradox. | 这是非洲最大的悖论。 |
| 38 | We have immense mineral wealth, yet insufficient industrial | 我们拥有巨大的矿产财富,但工业不足 |
| 39 | value and prosperity for our people. | 对我们人民的价值和繁荣。 |
| 40 | Our ambition must be to move from minerals to materials, | 我们的目标必须是从矿物转向材料 |
| 41 | from materials to markets and to competitive African enterprises. | 从材料到市场和竞争性非洲企业。 |
| 42 | At a time when global demand has pushed the prices for many natural resources higher, | 在全球需求将许多自然资源的价格推高的时候, |
| 43 | a number of African governments have introduced restrictions. | 一些非洲国家政府实行了限制。 |
| 44 | In June, the leading graphite producer Mozambique brought in a law that means exporting | 6月,主要的石墨生产商莫桑比克提出了一项法律,这意味着出口 |
| 45 | unprocessed minerals needs government approval. | 未加工矿物需要政府批准。 |
| 46 | It also gets a 15% stake in all mines. | 在所有矿井中也拥有15%的股份。 |
| 47 | Also in June, Guinea banned the export of unrefined gold in an effort to promote domestic | 同样在6月,几内亚禁止出口未经精炼的黄金,以促进国内贸易。 |
| 48 | processing to try to boost the economy and create more jobs. | 创造更多就业机会。 |
| 49 | In July, Zimbabwe stopped the export of | 7月,津巴布韦停止出口 |
| 50 | antimony and tungsten. | 锑和钨。 |
| 51 | Lithium concentrate exports will be banned from January. | 锂浓缩出口自1月起禁止. |
| 52 | That's crucial for | 这对 |
| 53 | electric vehicle batteries and 10% of global supply comes from Zimbabwe. | 电动汽车电池和全球供应的10%来自津巴布韦。 |
| 54 | In August, the | 在8月份, |
| 55 | concentrate to bolster its economy. | 集中力量支撑经济。 |
| 56 | Copper, of course, is vital for conducting electricity. | 当然,铜对供电至关重要。 |
| 57 | October saw Ghana announce a plan to end exports of alumina, manganese, iron and other unprocessed | 10月,加纳宣布了一项结束铝、锰、铁和其他未经加工的出口的计划。 |
| 58 | minerals by 2030. | 到2030年矿产。 |
| 59 | So with all that in mind, what role do the big mining companies play? | 因此,考虑到所有这些,大矿业公司发挥什么作用? |
| 60 | 英美、BHP、Rio Tinto、Tech和Vale等大名 经常投资数百 | |
| 61 | of millions of dollars to get new projects up and running. | 上百万元 启动新项目 |
| 62 | They may help countries monetise | 它们可能有助于各国货币化 |
| 63 | their natural resources, but critics argue they make too much money for shareholders. | 他们的自然资源,但批评者认为,他们为股东赚的钱太多了。 |
| 64 | So to find out where the balance lies, I've been speaking to the chief executive of the | 因此,为了找出平衡所在,我一直在与首席执行官 |
| 65 | International Council on Mining and Metals. | 国际采矿和金属理事会。 |
| 66 | It represents about a third of the global metals | 它占全球金属的三分之一 |
| 67 | and mining industry. | 采矿业。 |
| 68 | Rohitosh Dhawan, 欢迎来到谈生意。 | |
| 69 | Good to have you here. | 很高兴你能来 |
| 70 | Look, we're talking about the importance of these sorts of minerals, these natural resources. | 你看,我们正在谈论这些矿物的重要性, 这些自然资源。 |
| 71 | They are used in our everyday lives in so many things that we probably don't even know. | 它们被用在我们日常生活中 如此之多的东西 我们可能甚至不知道。 |
| 72 | Just explain the significance of them. | 解释一下它们的意义 |
| 73 | Well, the very screen that you're watching this on | 嗯,你看到的这个屏幕 |
| 74 | comes from the ground. | 从地而来. |
| 75 | Silicon, for example, is used in the devices like cell phones and laptops. | 例如,硅在手机和笔记本电脑等设备中使用。 |
| 76 | And then when you think about the electricity that powers them, that's all built on things like | 然后,当你想到 电力给他们的力量, 这一切都建立在诸如 |
| 77 | copper and nickel that are used in wiring and electronics. | 用于布线和电子的铜和镍。 |
| 78 | And even when you think about food, | 即使你想着食物 |
| 79 | even that relies on metals and minerals, because potash, a mineral, is what's used to make | 甚至依赖金属和矿物 因为陶塔什是一种矿物 用来制造 |
| 80 | fertiliser, which allows us to feed the nearly nine billion people on this earth. | 肥料,可以让我们养活地球上近90亿人。 |
| 81 | So it really | 原来如此 |
| 82 | is as simple as the fact that everything we touch, see and use comes from the ground. | 就像我们接触、看到和使用的一切来自地面的事实一样简单。 |
| 83 | It is either | 也一样 |
| 84 | mined or it is grown. | 被开采或种植。 |
| 85 | It's the only way we know how to get resources. | 这是我们知道如何获得资源的唯一方法. |
| 86 | And a lot of those resources | 很多资源 |
| 87 | are in Africa on the continent. | 位于非洲大陆。 |
| 88 | Talk to me about its significance and its role in the global demand, | 跟我说说它在全球需求中的重要性和作用, |
| 89 | or certainly the supply to meet the demand for those minerals. | 或满足这些矿物需求的供应。 |
| 90 | Geologically, Africa is almost unparalleled. | 在地质学上,非洲几乎无与伦比。 |
| 91 | It has really rich deposits of a range of metals | 它的矿藏非常丰富 各种金属 |
| 92 | and minerals that are used in technologies today, but increasingly in technologies of the future, | 以及目前用于技术但越来越多地用于未来技术的矿物, |
| 93 | like copper, like iron ore, like bauxite, which is used to make aluminium. | 如铜,如铁矿石,如铝矿,用于制铝. |
| 94 | And then, of course, | 然后,当然, |
| 95 | Africa is very rich in precious metals like platinum, diamonds and gold. | 非洲非常富含白金,钻石和黄金等贵金属. |
| 96 | And Africa is | 非洲是 |
| 97 | currently underweight in its role in the global production of these metals and minerals, because | 其在全球生产这些金属和矿物方面的作用目前不足,因为 |
| 98 | although it holds some of the world's most significant deposits, it still attracts a | 尽管它持有一些世界上最重要的存款,但它仍然吸引着 |
| 99 | very low share of the world's exploration spending, and therefore a very low share of the world's | 占世界勘探支出的比例很低,因此占世界勘探支出的比例很低。 |
| 100 | production of these metals and minerals. | 这些金属和矿物的生产。 |
| 101 | And so the key question we have is, can the next wave | 因此,我们的关键问题是, 下一波可以 |
| 102 | of mining be done in a way that allows for the kind of development that Africa has not seen | 以非洲所没有的发展为条件 |
| 103 | in previous waves of mining growth? | 在之前的采矿增长浪潮中? |
| 104 | You say it's underweight in terms of the exploration and | 你说从勘探角度讲 体重不足 |
| 105 | extraction of those minerals. | 开采这些矿物。 |
| 106 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 107 | What is holding it back? | 什么挡住了? |
| 108 | The main issue is political risk. | 主要问题是政治风险。 |
| 109 | Many | 许多 |
| 110 | people don't feel comfortable putting large amounts of capital into countries in Africa, | 给非洲国家注入大量资本, |
| 111 | because the real or perceived risk of doing so is considered to be higher than what it would be in | 因为这样做的真正风险或感觉风险被认为高于其风险。 |
| 112 | comparable jurisdictions, like in Latin America, for example. | 例如,拉丁美洲的类似管辖权。 |
| 113 | Now, mining is a very long-term | 现在,采矿是一个非常长期的 |
| 114 | business. | 业务。 |
| 115 | It only pays back in decades. | 几十年后才还钱 |
| 116 | And so people need to have confidence that if they were | 所以人们需要有信心 如果他们是 |
| 117 | to put billions of dollars, which is what a large mine involves, into the ground in Africa, that | 将数十亿美元,也就是一个大型地雷所涉及的,投入非洲的地面上, |
| 118 | that investment will be protected, that there won't be arbitrary changes in things like tax laws | 投资会受到保护 税法等事情不会随意改变 |
| 119 | that could affect the return on that investment, or in certain cases, that their actual property | 投资收益,或在某些情况下影响其实际财产的收益 |
| 120 | won't be seized from them as what has happened in the past on the continent. | 他们不会像过去在大陆上发生的那样被抓住 |
| 121 | Now, many countries | 现在,许多国家 |
| 122 | have taken steps to improve their investment climate and to give investors the certainty, | 已采取步骤改善投资环境,并使投资者具有确定性, |
| 123 | but there's still a long way to go to give people the confidence to invest | 但是要给人们投资的信心还有很长的路要走 |
| 124 | the significant sums over a long-term basis. | 长期而言,数额巨大。 |
| 125 | And on the flip side of that, whilst there might be | 在反面,虽然可能 |
| 126 | some sympathy for those mining firms in terms of the security of its investment, I think Africa holds | 我认为,非洲对这些采矿公司的投资安全表示同情。 |
| 127 | about 20% of minerals, but only 5% of that value is kept on the continent. | 大约20%的矿物, 但只有5%的这种价值留在非洲大陆。 |
| 128 | The money is taken out | 钱都拿出来了 |
| 129 | of the country. | 国家。 |
| 130 | I suppose the question is that fair? | 我想问题是公平吗? |
| 131 | And if not, how is the balance redressed? | 如果没有,如何纠正平衡? |
| 132 | So many people are looking at models that would allow for more of the value to be captured in | 很多人正在寻找模型 能够捕捉更多的价值 |
| 133 | country on the continent. | 在大陆上的国家。 |
| 134 | Typically, that seems to be done through downstream processing and | 一般来说,这似乎是通过下游加工和 |
| 135 | beneficiation of those minerals. | 这些矿物的优势。 |
| 136 | So rather than exporting the rocks, essentially, they're converted | 所以,与其出口岩石, 本质上,它们被转换 |
| 137 | into useful metal, or ideally into the end product, like batteries, before they're exported. | 成为有用的金属, 或者理想的进入终端产品, 如电池, 在出口之前。 |
| 138 | On paper, at least, that would lead to greater tax receipts, more jobs, higher value added | 至少从纸面上看,这会导致税收增加,就业机会增加,附加值增加 |
| 139 | staying in country. | 留在乡下。 |
| 140 | But it's not so simple, because often the tax paid by those industries | 但事情没那么简单 因为那些行业经常交税 |
| 141 | downstream or the jobs they create are actually far less than those that are created upstream | 下游或他们创造的工作实际上远远低于上游创造的工作 |
| 142 | on the mining side. | 在采矿方面。 |
| 143 | So I would argue that a better strategy for Africa would be to create | 所以我认为,非洲更好的战略是: |
| 144 | additional value upstream in the mining operation, rather than look to have downstream | 上游采矿活动的额外价值,而不是下游 |
| 145 | beneficiation, although that's certainly where the political interest currently lies. | 虽然目前政治利益就在于此, |
| 146 | In a fight back against some of the power of these big mining firms, we know that different | 在反击这些大型矿业公司的一些权力时,我们知道, |
| 147 | governments on the continent have imposed export restrictions, or they've added new rules that | 非洲大陆各国政府施加了出口限制,或者增加了新的规则 |
| 148 | would, for example, in Mozambique, give the government 15% of the mine. | 例如,在莫桑比克,将给予政府15%的矿井。 |
| 149 | What is the | 这是什么 |
| 150 | actually does it just serve as a deterrent rather than anything else? | 实际上,它只是起到威慑作用,而不是起到其他作用? |
| 151 | It can be a deterrent, but it can also be a powerful positive force. | 它可以是一种威慑,但也可以是一种强大的积极力量。 |
| 152 | So an example of where | 所以,一个例子在哪里 |
| 153 | it's been used, I think, in a fairly clever way is Indonesia, where there was a ban on the export of | 我认为,印度尼西亚很聪明地使用过它, 在那里禁止出口 |
| 154 | concentrate, but that was coupled with incentives and support for people to invest in the country. | 集中力量,但与此同时,鼓励和支持人们向该国投资。 |
| 155 | In the absence of that, just bans alone, like, for example, the ban on | 如果没有这种限制,仅仅禁止,例如禁止 |
| 156 | unprocessed lithium out of Zimbabwe or in Guinea, can have unintended consequences of driving | 未经加工的锂从津巴布韦或几内亚运出,可产生驾驶意外后果 |
| 157 | investment away because it spooks investors from thinking that arbitrary changes in policy could | 因为它使投资者不敢认为 任意改变政策可能 |
| 158 | substantially impact their business prospects. | 影响他们的商业前景。 |
| 159 | So I would urge great caution in how those are used, | 因此,我敦促在如何使用这些工具时谨慎行事, |
| 160 | because if not done in the right way, they can have a significant long term chilling effect | 因为如果不以正确的方式进行,它们可以产生显著的长期冷却效应 |
| 161 | on attracting new investment. | 吸引新的投资。 |
| 162 | Now, if similar moves in other industries tell us anything, | 如果其他行业的类似举动告诉我们 |
| 163 | it's that when export restrictions are put in place, when governments try to limit ownership | 当政府试图限制所有权时 |
| 164 | of certain assets, it means that the industry isn't policing itself properly. | 在某些资产,这意味着 行业没有 维持治安本身。 |
| 165 | I mean, is that | 我的意思是,这是 |
| 166 | a fair criticism? | 公正的批评? |
| 167 | What role should your members play here in making sure that what they're doing | 你们的成员应该在这里发挥什么作用来确保他们在做什么 |
| 168 | is economically sound, but also that it is equitable, that everybody can benefit from | 经济健全,但人人能从中得益是公平的。 |
| 169 | these natural resources? | 这些自然资源? |
| 170 | The biggest mining companies in the world, such as those that are | 世界上最大的矿业公司,如 |
| 171 | in how mining is done responsibly, fairly, and in the interest of the local population. | 如何以负责、公平的方式进行采矿,并符合当地人民的利益。 |
| 172 | And for the last 25 years, these companies have been doing just that. | 在过去的25年里,这些公司一直在这样做。 |
| 173 | Now, the challenge is that | 现在,挑战在于 |
| 174 | unfortunately, that has not become the norm for the wider industry, because across the 26 | 不幸的是,这还没有成为更广泛的行业的规范,因为在整个26个行业中, |
| 175 | members that are part of the ICMM, we have between us 650 sites in over 50 countries. | 我们中间有50多个国家的650个网站。 |
| 176 | Now, that may | 现在,也许 |
| 177 | sound like a lot, but to put that in context, there are something like 16,000 mines globally, | 听起来很多,但从背景来看, 全球有16000个地雷, |
| 178 | and the outcomes for people and the planet are influenced by what the majority of those do, | 以及人类和地球的结果 受到他们中大多数人的行为的影响 |
| 179 | rather than what a small number of leading companies do. | 而不是少数大公司做的 |
| 180 | Because only when the majority | 因为只有多数人 |
| 181 | of those 16,000 mines are operating responsibly, can we be confident that this next rush for | 在16 000枚地雷中,有16 000枚地雷正在以负责任的方式作业,我们能否相信,这种下一场冲动是为了 |
| 182 | critical minerals won't be at the expense of people or the planet. | 关键矿物不会牺牲人类或地球 |
| 183 | Rory Testawan, 真不错 | |
| 184 | to talk to you on the program this week. | 这周在节目里和你谈谈 |
| 185 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 186 | So there is plenty of natural | 所以,有很多自然的 |
| 187 | resources sitting in the ground across Africa, but by many measures, it remains the world's | 非洲各地的资源,但从许多方面来看,仍然是世界的财富。 |
| 188 | poorest continent. | 最贫穷的大陆。 |
| 189 | According to the World Bank, 67% of all people living in extreme poverty | 据世界银行统计,生活在赤贫中的占67%。 |
| 190 | are in sub-Saharan Africa. | 位于撒哈拉以南非洲。 |
| 191 | So for their governments, making the most of those natural | 因此,对于他们的政府, 使这些自然 |
| 192 | resources is key to improving education, healthcare, and living standards. | 资源是改善教育、保健和生活水平的关键。 |
| 193 | I've been | 我去过 |
| 194 | discussing that with the chief economist of the African Development Bank. | 与非洲开发银行首席经济学家讨论这个问题。 |
| 195 | Kevin Orama, | 凯文·奥拉玛 |
| 196 | welcome to Talking Business. | 欢迎来到"谈正事" |
| 197 | Good to have you here. | 很高兴你能来 |
| 198 | And look, in this program, we're looking | 你看,在这个节目中,我们正在寻找 |
| 199 | at Africa's incredible natural resources, but whether the continent is making as much of them | 在非洲不可思议的自然资源, 但非洲大陆是否在创造同样多的自然资源 |
| 200 | as it could, and whether it could keep hold of more of that wealth. | 以及它能否保住更多的财富 |
| 201 | Talk to me about what happens | 跟我说说发生了什么 |
| 202 | right now. | 现在 |
| 203 | How much wealth is Africa able to keep hold of, and why is it so low? | 非洲能够维持多少财富,为什么财富如此之低? |
| 204 | Yeah, at the moment, | 是的,现在, |
| 205 | Africa's natural resources is not really adding great value to Africa's growth and development | 非洲自然资源并没有真正为非洲的增长和发展带来巨大价值。 |
| 206 | for several reasons. | 有几个原因。 |
| 207 | So because of structural challenges and lack of technology, human capacity, | 因此,由于结构性挑战和缺乏技术,人的能力, |
| 208 | and also issues around industrial strategy, the continent has not been able to move up the value | 以及围绕工业战略的问题,非洲大陆未能提高这一价值。 |
| 209 | chain significantly. | 链条显著。 |
| 210 | And that is why African leaders and the African Development Bank, | 这就是为什么非洲领导人和非洲开发银行, |
| 211 | at this moment, are really looking into how to create that strategy that allows the continent | 此时此刻,我们正研究如何制定这一战略,使非洲大陆能够 |
| 212 | to be able to retain more value in its natural resources within the continent. | (b) 能够保持非洲大陆自然资源的价值。 |
| 213 | The continent is | 该大陆是 |
| 214 | growing very fast with regard to real GDP growth, but if you look at the contributions of natural | 相对于实际GDP增长而言,增长非常快,但如果看一看自然增长的贡献, |
| 215 | resources to this growth, it's about between... What is the biggest hurdle to achieving that? | 资源与这种增长, 它大约在... 实现这一目标的最大障碍是什么? |
| 216 | What is | 这是什么 |
| 217 | adding value to them means that the continent needs the requisite infrastructure, energy, water, | 增加它们的价值意味着非洲大陆需要必要的基础设施、能源、水、 |
| 218 | roads, rails, and all these that are required not only to extract the minerals from the ground, | 道路 铁路 以及所有这些 不仅为了从地面开采矿物质 |
| 219 | but to add value to these minerals above ground so that it leads to inclusive growth and development | * 增加地上矿物的价值,从而实现包容性增长和发展; |
| 220 | for the continent. | 为大陆。 |
| 221 | And the infrastructure depth in Africa is huge. | 非洲基础设施的深度很大。 |
| 222 | From the African Development | 非洲发展 |
| 223 | Bank, we estimate that the continent needs over $402 billion in various aspects of infrastructure | 银行,我们估计,非洲大陆在基础设施的各个方面需要4 020亿美元。 |
| 224 | investments to be able to drive structural transformation and also to build the human | 投资能够推动结构转型和建设人类 |
| 225 | capacity required to add value to those resources. | 为增加这些资源的价值所需的能力。 |
| 226 | But one of the major constraints is energy. | 但主要的制约因素之一是能量。 |
| 227 | We have over 600 million Africans still without access to electricity. | 我们有6亿多非洲人仍然得不到电力。 |
| 228 | And I would really encourage | 我真的很鼓励你 |
| 229 | the continent to move more towards minerals development agreements where we work with | * 非洲大陆将朝着我们合作的矿物开发协定迈出更多的步伐。 |
| 230 | investors to invest in building those industries on the continent and through smart policies we | 投资者投资在非洲大陆建设这些工业 通过明智的政策 |
| 231 | may be able to attract these global investors to invest in those natural resources where they are | 可能能够吸引这些全球投资者对自然资源进行投资。 |
| 232 | on the continent. | 在大陆上。 |
| 233 | But in the meantime, what governments in Africa are doing are imposing | 但与此同时,非洲各国政府正在做的是强加 |
| 234 | export restrictions to try and keep more of that wealth on shore. | 限制出口 试图保持更多的财富岸上。 |
| 235 | Is that the answer? | 这就是答案吗? |
| 236 | The answer to that question will be yes and no. | 这个问题的答案将是肯定的和否定的。 |
| 237 | Export restrictions can help countries to get | 出口限制可以帮助各国获得 |
| 238 | more leverage in negotiation for those minerals that are being extracted from within their | 在谈判那些正在从其内部开采的矿物时,发挥更大的作用。 |
| 239 | jurisdiction. | 管辖权。 |
| 240 | But export restrictions alone cannot create market competitiveness. | 但是,单靠出口限制不能创造市场竞争力。 |
| 241 | So countries must | 因此,各国必须 |
| 242 | balance their competitive advantage in terms of do we have the energy resources, the water | 平衡他们的竞争优势 我们是否有能源,水 |
| 243 | resources, the technology and human capacity to add value to these minerals. | 资源、技术和人员能力,以便为这些矿物增值。 |
| 244 | Because if you put | 因为如果你放 |
| 245 | restrictions and you don't have them, then those restrictions can lead to loss of market value. | 限制,而你没有, 那么这些限制 会导致市场价值的损失。 |
| 246 | So for export restrictions to become valuable for African continent, that needs to be done at a | 因此,要使出口限制对非洲大陆具有价值,就必须在 |
| 247 | Pan-African level where you have more regional strategies and fiscal policies that creates | 在泛非一级,你拥有更多的区域战略和财政政策来创造 |
| 248 | incentives to invest in those minerals for which we are restricting exports, but also | 鼓励投资于我们限制出口的矿物,但也 |
| 249 | builds industrial capacity for the continent to add value to them. | 建设非洲大陆的工业能力,以增加这些工业能力的价值。 |
| 250 | Africa sort of caught between China and the United States when it comes to that | 说到这个,非洲在中美之间陷落 |
| 251 | demand for rare earth minerals and these natural resources, both pouring lots of money into the | 对稀土矿物和这些自然资源的需求,都为非洲提供了大量资金。 |
| 252 | continent. | 大陆。 |
| 253 | How does Africa manage that money and make sure that it is used in the right way? | 非洲如何管理这笔钱,并确保以正确的方式使用这笔钱? |
| 254 | That is why I said first is the negotiation of those contracts. | 因此,我首先说谈判这些合同。 |
| 255 | First, the mining concession | 第一,采矿特许权 |
| 256 | agreements for me should turn to minerals development agreements. | 对我来说,协议应该转向矿物开发协议。 |
| 257 | Because if those | 因为如果那些 |
| 258 | industries have been built next to those raw minerals, it will help invariably create jobs | 在这些原始矿物旁边建立了工业,这必然有助于创造就业机会。 |
| 259 | for youth in Africa. | 非洲青年组织。 |
| 260 | Could Africa be the world's factory? | 非洲能否成为世界工厂? |
| 261 | Could that be the solution? | 这能解决吗? |
| 262 | Yes, Africa has been the world's resource, a source for resources, but Africa can then become | 是的,非洲一直是世界资源,是资源的来源,但非洲可以成为 |
| 263 | the world's factory for several reasons. | 世界工厂 有几个原因 |
| 264 | The cost of production is cost competitive. | 生产成本具有竞争力。 |
| 265 | The huge teaming | 巨大的团队 |
| 266 | population of African youth allows for cheaper level in those factories and then also for the | 非洲青年人口允许在这些工厂达到更便宜的水平,然后也允许非洲青年达到更便宜的水平。 |
| 267 | sustainability and parity reducing the carbon footprint of products. | 可持续性和平等减少产品的碳足迹。 |
| 268 | Africa could be a place | 非洲可能是一个地方 |
| 269 | where the world can still have growth happening, but also reducing CO2 emissions and all the | 世界仍然能够实现增长,但也能够减少二氧化碳排放量和所有 |
| 270 | sustainable development goals that the world so much needs today could be achieved. | 世界今天非常需要的可持续发展目标可以实现。 |
| 271 | Kevin Orama, | 凯文·奥拉玛 |
| 272 | really good to talk to you on the programme. | 很高兴在节目上和你谈谈 |
| 273 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 274 | Thank you very much for having me. | 谢谢你邀请我 |
| 275 | Still to come, the promise of power. | 仍然要来,权力的承诺。 |
| 276 | As global demand for electricity grows, I'll speak to the | 随着全球电力需求的增长,我会跟 |
| 277 | boss of Hitachi Energy about how they are keeping the world plugged in. | Hitachi能源公司的老板 关于他们是如何保持世界的连接。 |
| 278 | Welcome back to Talking | 欢迎回来谈话 |
| 279 | Business. | 事业. |
| 280 | Now, we've been looking at Africa's natural resources and just how the wealth they | 现在,我们一直在研究非洲的自然资源 以及他们的财富 |
| 281 | create should be shared. | 创建应共享。 |
| 282 | But those minerals are in such huge demand, partly because of our need for | 但是这些矿物的需求如此之大,部分原因是我们需要 |
| 283 | electricity. | 电力。 |
| 284 | And with oil and gas prices surging, thanks largely to the war in the Middle East, | 随着石油和天然气价格的飙升, 主要是由于中东的战争, |
| 285 | countries around the world are refocusing efforts on renewables. | 世界各国正重新把精力集中在可再生能源上。 |
| 286 | The energy is needed to power AI | 需要能量为AI提供动力 |
| 287 | data centres, advanced manufacturing and the so-called electrification of everything. | 数据中心,先进制造 和所谓的电气化的一切。 |
| 288 | And that's where firms like Hitachi Energy come in. | 这就是像Hitachi Energy这样的公司进来的地方。 |
| 289 | They build the equipment and infrastructure | 他们建造设备和基础设施 |
| 290 | to power economies, but that needs vital raw materials. | 但是这需要重要的原材料 |
| 291 | Resources like copper from Africa | 非洲铜等资源 |
| 292 | for cables. | 用于电缆。 |
| 293 | 我一直在跟律所的主管Andrea Schirrenberg谈话 | |
| 294 | Welcome to Talking | 欢迎来到演讲 |
| 295 | Business. | 事业. |
| 296 | Good to have you here. | 很高兴你能来 |
| 297 | And look, in this programme, we're looking at our insatiable appetite | 你看,在这个节目里,我们正在看 我们无厌的胃口 |
| 298 | for raw materials and minerals that are primarily coming from Africa because of our need for | 原料和矿物,主要来自非洲,因为我们需要 |
| 299 | electricity and that big push into renewables. | 电力和大推动可再生能源。 |
| 300 | Talk to me right now about global demand for | 现在跟我谈谈全球需求 |
| 301 | electricity. | 电力。 |
| 302 | Where is it coming from? | 从何而来. |
| 303 | Why do we need so much? | 我们为什么需要这么多? |
| 304 | The demand for electrical energy is | 对电力的需求是: |
| 305 | something which we see since a couple of years and it's driven by electrification. | 我们从几年来就看到了 由电气化驱动的 |
| 306 | You know, with two energy crisis going on or in the past, the demand for electrons was much, | 你知道,由于两个能源危机 发生或在过去, 对电子的需求很大, |
| 307 | much higher just to diversify your needs and to being less dependent for molecules which | 高得多的只是让你的需求多样化 和减少对分子的依赖 |
| 308 | you probably don't have. | 你可能没有。 |
| 309 | So that's a less dependency on things like oil and gas and they | 因此,这是一个较少的依赖 像石油和天然气和它们 |
| 310 | push into electricity and also a demand for using it. | 推进电力,同时也是使用电力的需求。 |
| 311 | I'm thinking of things here like electric | 我在想电动的东西 |
| 312 | vehicles and AI data centres. | 车辆和AI数据中心。 |
| 313 | Are you seeing a direct correlation between that and how busy | 你看到这和多忙有直接关系吗? |
| 314 | you are as a business? | 你是一个生意? |
| 315 | Well, I think there's a correlation there, but needless to say probably | 嗯,我想有 关联,但不需要说 可能 |
| 316 | from my side, the AI data centre and electrical vehicles as well are probably the cherry on the | 从我这边看,人工智能数据中心和电动车辆 很可能是樱桃 |
| 317 | cake. | 蛋糕 蛋糕 蛋糕 蛋糕 |
| 318 | That's really electrifying industrial processes, the switching from gas or from oil | 这是真正电气化的工业流程, 从天然气或石油转换 |
| 319 | to electrons. | 对电子。 |
| 320 | And so it is part of your job to meet that demand, to supply the electricity | 所以这是你工作的一部分 满足需求,供电 |
| 321 | that is needed. | 这是需要的。 |
| 322 | Are you confident that you can do it, that you can step up to the challenge? | 你有信心你能做到吗? 你有能力迎接挑战吗? |
| 323 | Well, definitely this is one of our challenges because demand and supply is definitely not in | 当然,这是我们的挑战之一 因为供需绝对不在 |
| 324 | balance. | 余额。 |
| 325 | And one root cause for that is developing actually the production capabilities for | 其中一个根源是发展生产能力 |
| 326 | transformers and for the equipment takes a little bit longer than actually the installation of that. | 变压器和设备比实际安装要长一点。 |
| 327 | So there is a gap. | 因此,有一个缺口。 |
| 328 | Itachi is investing around nine billion US dollars worldwide to expanding | 伊塔奇正在全球投资约90亿美元以扩大 |
| 329 | all our factories. | 我们所有的工厂。 |
| 330 | What is it that you need though to meet that demand, whether that's | 你需要什么来满足这个要求? |
| 331 | copper that you need in the cables and the wiring, all sorts of rare earth minerals you might need in | 电缆和电线中需要的铜 各种稀土矿物 |
| 332 | things like chip boards and high tech equipment. | 比如芯片板和高科技设备 |
| 333 | Where is that coming from? | 这是从哪里来的? |
| 334 | Well, we are using a lot of commodities, of course, copper, electric steel, sometimes oil | 嗯,我们正在使用很多商品, 当然,铜,电钢,有时石油 |
| 335 | and transformers and other equipment. | 以及变压器和其他设备。 |
| 336 | And this is coming actually from a worldwide supply. | 这其实来自全球的供给。 |
| 337 | Some rare earths maybe in our products, but not so much. | 一些稀土也许在我们的产品中,但不是太多。 |
| 338 | The main part is actually steel and copper. | 主要部分实际上是钢铁和铜. |
| 339 | That's coming from a worldwide supply chain. | 这来自全球供应链。 |
| 340 | Now, by all estimates, about 20% of all the | 现在,根据所有的估计, 大约20%的所有 |
| 341 | Africa. | 非洲。 |
| 342 | What role does that play for you? | 那对你有什么作用? |
| 343 | How important is Africa for your business? | 非洲对你的生意有多重要? |
| 344 | I think Africa is very important, but on the other hand, we are not directly exposed to raw materials. | 我认为非洲非常重要,但另一方面,我们没有直接接触原材料。 |
| 345 | What we are sourcing is already produced materials like copper with paper insulations, | 我们的原料 已经生产出铜等材料 加上纸质绝缘物 |
| 346 | electric steel, which is already processed. | 电钢,已经加工。 |
| 347 | But of course, we are very eager looking into the | 当然,我们非常热心地研究 |
| 348 | supply chains and looking what we need to secure what actually is needed for the next couple of | 供应链和寻找我们需要什么来保障 未来几家企业的实际需要 |
| 349 | years. | 岁月 |
| 350 | Now, as you said, you are the pipes and the cables. | 现在,正如你说的,你是管道和电缆。 |
| 351 | You're not necessarily the generators | 你不一定是发电机 |
| 352 | of that electricity. | 电源。 |
| 353 | And I suppose we take you for granted. | 我猜我们把你当成理所当然的。 |
| 354 | We only know about you when | 我们只认识你的时候 |
| 355 | things go wrong. | 事情不对劲 |
| 356 | I mean, how frustrating is that as a business? | 我的意思是,这是多么令人沮丧 作为一个生意? |
| 357 | Well, I would say a couple of years | 好吧,我想说几年 |
| 358 | ago, probably that was the right statement. | 说得没错 |
| 359 | But nowadays, the grid has become definitely an item | 但是现在,电网已经绝对成为一件事情 |
| 360 | of discussion because the grid is at the moment the bottleneck because you quit to expand that | 讨论,因为电网是 现在的瓶颈 因为你退出扩张 |
| 361 | takes longer time than expected. | 需要比预期更长的时间。 |
| 362 | And regulations and a lot of red tape is not making it better. | 条例和很多繁文缛节并不能改善它。 |
| 363 | What is the hardest bit about your job right now? | 你现在的工作最难的是什么? |
| 364 | You talk there about some of the frustrations, | 你在那里谈论一些挫折感, |
| 365 | maybe some of the restrictions on you just being able to get on with your job. | 也许有些限制 你只是能够继续你的工作。 |
| 366 | What's the hardest | 最难的是什么? |
| 367 | thing to overcome? | 需要克服吗? |
| 368 | I think the hardest thing to overcome is to grow. | 我觉得最难克服的是成长 |
| 369 | We have a good backlog. | 我们积压很多 |
| 370 | We | 我们 |
| 371 | have a lot of products we have to supply. | 我们有很多产品要供应 |
| 372 | We are investing heavily in our manufacturing footprint. | 我们正在对制造足迹进行大量投资。 |
| 373 | We are hiring people every year, a couple of thousand more and making such a big company grow | 我们每年都要雇人,再多雇几千人, 使这样一个大公司发展壮大。 |
| 374 | significantly, double digit year over year for a rather long time. | 相当长的时间里 年复一年的两位数 |
| 375 | It's definitely something which | 这绝对是一件 |
| 376 | keeps me awake at night. | 晚上让我保持清醒 |
| 377 | Andreas Schoerenbeck 本周的节目里 很高兴能和你谈谈 | |
| 378 | Thanks for being with us. | 谢谢你陪我们 |
| 379 | Thank you for having me. | 谢谢你邀请我 |
| 380 | That's all for this week. | 就这周 |
| 381 | You can keep up | 你可以跟上来 |
| 382 | today with all the latest on the global economy on the BBC News website and app. | 今天在英国广播公司新闻网站和应用程序上, |
| 383 | But until next | 但直到下一个 |
| 384 | time, thanks for watching. | 时间,谢谢你的观看。 |
| 385 | I will see you soon. | 回头见 |
| 386 | Bye bye. | 再见 |
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