【Oct.26】Talking Business | BBC
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | and the latest innovations in technology, Talking Business. | 以及最新技术革新, 谈生意。 |
| 0:05 | Hello and welcome to Talking Business. | 欢迎光临"谈生意" |
| 0:07 | Here's what's on the programme this week. | 本周节目内容如下. |
| 0:10 | The currency of champions, the price of sports teams | 冠军的货币,体育队的价格 |
| 0:13 | and the cost of watching them keeps climbing. | 看他们不断攀登的代价 |
| 0:15 | But how long can it continue? | 但它能持续多久? |
| 0:19 | The LA Lakers are starting the new NBA season | 洛杉矶湖人队开始了NBA新赛季 |
| 0:22 | as the most expensive sports team in history. | 作为历史上最昂贵的体育队. |
| 0:25 | And they're not the only team setting new records. | 而且他们不是唯一的团队 设定新的记录。 |
| 0:28 | So is live sport the best way to spend your billions | 活体运动是花你亿万的最好办法 |
展开字幕全文（514 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | and the latest innovations in technology, Talking Business. | 以及最新技术革新, 谈生意。 |
| 2 | Hello and welcome to Talking Business. | 欢迎光临"谈生意" |
| 3 | Here's what's on the programme this week. | 本周节目内容如下. |
| 4 | The currency of champions, the price of sports teams | 冠军的货币,体育队的价格 |
| 5 | and the cost of watching them keeps climbing. | 看他们不断攀登的代价 |
| 6 | But how long can it continue? | 但它能持续多久? |
| 7 | The LA Lakers are starting the new NBA season | 洛杉矶湖人队开始了NBA新赛季 |
| 8 | as the most expensive sports team in history. | 作为历史上最昂贵的体育队. |
| 9 | And they're not the only team setting new records. | 而且他们不是唯一的团队 设定新的记录。 |
| 10 | So is live sport the best way to spend your billions | 活体运动是花你亿万的最好办法 |
| 11 | if you want to protect them from AI? | 如果你想保护他们不受AI的伤害? |
| 12 | I'll discuss that with these two. | 我会和他们讨论的 |
| 13 | The first man billionaires call when they want to buy | 首个亿万富翁要买的时候打来 |
| 14 | or sell a team. | 或卖一个团队。 |
| 15 | He says fans are more likely to change religion | 他说粉丝更有可能改变宗教信仰 |
| 16 | than their favourite team. | 比他们最喜欢的团队。 |
| 17 | And one of the world's top TV sports rights bosses | 也是世界顶尖的电视体育权老板之一 |
| 18 | explains how our willingness to watch | 解释我们如何愿意观看 |
| 19 | is driving up prices across the field. | 整个地区的价格都在上涨 |
| 20 | Plus paying up off the pitch. | 再加上还清投球。 |
| 21 | I'll speak to the billionaire founder of Fanatics | 我会跟富豪的创始人说 |
| 22 | about why there's more money than ever | 关于为什么比以前有更多的钱 |
| 23 | to be made from selling shirts, trading cards | 用来出售衬衫 交易卡 |
| 24 | and other merchandise to fans right around the world. | 和其他商品 粉丝在世界各地。 |
| 25 | Welcome to the programme. | 欢迎加入节目 |
| 26 | Now this week we're asking, | 现在这周我们问, |
| 27 | is the cost of sports out of control? | 运动的成本是不是失控了? |
| 28 | In a world where everything is available | 在一个什么都有的世界里 |
| 29 | at the tap of a screen and AI is changing | 在屏幕上,AI正在改变 |
| 30 | the way we consume content, | 我们消费内容的方式, |
| 31 | does the thrill of live sport mean it's still worth | 现场运动的刺激是否意味着它仍然值得 |
| 32 | the premium price? | 价钱? |
| 33 | As the cost of living crisis puts pressure | 由于生活危机的代价带来压力 |
| 34 | on everything from food to energy, | 从食物到能源 |
| 35 | is sport still affordable? | 运动还负担得起吗? |
| 36 | And where is the money made from TV rights | 电视权赚的钱呢? |
| 37 | and soaring ticket prices really going? | 票价飙升真的走吗? |
| 38 | Well, in the US, the new NBA season is getting underway. | 在美国,NBA新赛季开始 |
| 39 | But even before it's begun, | 但即使在开始之前 |
| 40 | there have been some eye watering scores. | 有一些眼水分数。 |
| 41 | The LA Lakers were bought for $12.5 billion in August, | 洛杉矶湖人队8月以125亿美元收购, |
| 42 | making them the most expensive sports team | 让他们成为最昂贵的体育队 |
| 43 | in any sports in history. | 在任何体育史上。 |
| 44 | Two weeks after that, a $9.6 billion deal | 两周后 96亿美元的交易 |
| 45 | saw Super Bowl champions, the Seattle Seahawks, | 看到超级杯冠军 西雅图海鹰队 |
| 46 | become the most expensive American football team ever. | 成为有史以来最昂贵的美国足球队. |
| 47 | August also saw English Premier League Giants, Liverpool, | 8月还看到英国总理联盟巨人,利物浦, |
| 48 | valued at more than $7 billion as a consortium | 价值70多亿美元作为联营企业 |
| 49 | involving the Amazon founder, Jeff Bezos, | 涉及亚马逊创始人杰夫·贝佐斯 |
| 50 | bought a large stake. | 买了一大块 |
| 51 | And in September, rivals Chelsea were valued | 在九月,对手切尔西受到重视 |
| 52 | at $6.7 billion in a deal that saw US-based Clear Lake | 一笔价值67亿美元的交易 在美国的清湖 |
| 53 | take full control of the club. | 完全控制俱乐部。 |
| 54 | And the cost of TV sports rights is also soaring. | 而电视体育权的成本也飞涨. |
| 55 | This year's $66.2 billion is a record for all sports | 今年的662亿美元是所有运动的纪录 |
| 56 | across all territories worldwide. | 横跨全世界所有领土。 |
| 57 | Now, the growing involvement of private equity companies | 现在,私募股权公司日益参与 |
| 58 | in professional sports means that owners are looking | 在职业体育中意味着所有者正在寻找 |
| 59 | for new ways to bring in cash | 以新的方式带来现金 |
| 60 | to make their investments worthwhile. | 让他们的投资变得值得 |
| 61 | That includes the rising cost of replica shirts | 包括复制衫的价格上涨 |
| 62 | and other merchandise, as well as the growth | 以及其他商品,以及 |
| 63 | in hospitality packages to watch the action. | 在招待包中观看动作。 |
| 64 | In basketball, that meant in June, the cheapest seat | 在篮球,这意味着在6月,最便宜的座位 |
| 65 | for the New York Knicks' first home playoff match | 纽约尼克斯队的首场主场比赛 |
| 66 | was $8,000. | 八千块 |
| 67 | Ahead of the game, it was put to President Trump | 在比赛前,它被提交川普总统 |
| 68 | that everyday Americans couldn't afford it. | 每天美国人都买不起 |
| 69 | Well, I know, but they could watch it on television. | 我知道,但他们可以在电视上看 |
| 70 | Sort of semi-free to watch it on television, | 有点半免费 在电视上看它, |
| 71 | but that's the way life goes. | 但生活就是这样的 |
| 72 | Now, if the game wasn't a big, | 现在,如果游戏不是很大, |
| 73 | if the team wasn't a big success, | 如果球队不是大成功 |
| 74 | you could go very easily. | 你可以轻松地去。 |
| 75 | So, you know, you could do that too, | 所以,你知道,你也可以做到这一点, |
| 76 | but that's the way life is. | 但生活就是这样 |
| 77 | In reality, TV sports subscriptions are going up | 事实上,电视体育的订阅量正在上升 |
| 78 | in many countries. | 在许多国家。 |
| 79 | And those comments from President Trump came | 川普总统的这些评论来了 |
| 80 | just as America was hosting football's World Cup, | 就像美国主办足球世界杯一样 |
| 81 | which attracted a lot of criticism | 这吸引了很多批评 |
| 82 | over the price of the tickets. | 超过票价。 |
| 83 | Particularly during this World Cup, | 尤其是在本届世界杯期间 |
| 84 | prices are incredibly high, | 价格高得惊人, |
| 85 | both for tickets and accommodation. | 买票和住宿 |
| 86 | It's unbelievable, because in previous World Cups, | 难以置信 因为以前的世界杯 |
| 87 | the costs were at least 50% lower. | 费用至少降低50%。 |
| 88 | It cost $1,400 each, and obviously the hotel | 每人要1400美元 很明显是酒店 |
| 89 | and the shopping and everything that comes with being here. | 购物和所有随身携带的东西 |
| 90 | So it was spectacular, and it was worth it. | 因此,它是壮观的, 这是值得的。 |
| 91 | It's obscene, honestly, how pricey it was, yeah. | 这是淫秽的,诚实的, 它是多么昂贵的,是的。 |
| 92 | I wish that it was more, you know, even-keeled | 我希望它更,你知道, 双脚 |
| 93 | so more people could enjoy the sport. | 这样更多的人可以享受运动。 |
| 94 | The price policy is make it sad, | 物价政策让人难过 |
| 95 | because football, it's for the fans | 因为足球是给球迷的 |
| 96 | and not for the rich people. | 而不为富人. |
| 97 | So that's what some fans think about the cost of live sport, | 所以有些球迷是这么认为的 |
| 98 | but it is those higher prices | 但就是这些高价 |
| 99 | that might convince those with deep pockets, | 可能说服那些口袋很深的人, |
| 100 | not only to watch, but to even buy a team. | 不仅看,甚至买球队。 |
| 101 | And whether it's American football, basketball, | 不管是美国足球还是篮球 |
| 102 | or the English Premier League, | 或英国总理联盟, |
| 103 | they're being snapped up as trophy assets for billionaires. | 成为亿万富翁的奖杯 |
| 104 | But do they also make a sound financial investment? | 但是,它们是否也进行了健全的金融投资? |
| 105 | Well, I've been speaking to one man who, | 我一直在和一个人说话 |
| 106 | over more than 20 years, has put together | 20多年来,我们聚集在一起 |
| 107 | lots of those sorts of deals. | 很多这样的交易。 |
| 108 | Sal Gale, Tiota, welcome to Talking Business. | 萨尔・盖尔,蒂奥塔,欢迎来到谈生意。 |
| 109 | Good to see you. | 很高兴见到你。 |
| 110 | And look, I've seen it described | 你看,我见过它描述 |
| 111 | that you are the first person that billionaires call | 你是第一个被亿万富翁召唤的人 |
| 112 | if they wanted to buy or sell a sports team. | 如果他们想买或卖体育队。 |
| 113 | But how do you work out prices? | 但你如何解决价格? |
| 114 | How do you decide, for example, | 举例来说,你怎么决定 |
| 115 | that the LA Lakers are worth $12.5 billion? | 洛杉矶湖人队价值125亿美元? |
| 116 | Well, I would like to tell you that it's scientific. | 我想告诉你,这是科学的。 |
| 117 | I'd like to tell you that we have a formula | 我想告诉你,我们有一个公式 |
| 118 | that will give you the exact price of a team. | 这会给你一个团队的确切价格。 |
| 119 | We don't. | 我们没有。 |
| 120 | These assets are worth what someone | 这些资产是值得的 |
| 121 | who is extremely wealthy is willing to pay for them. | 谁是极其富有的 愿意支付他们。 |
| 122 | And the way you get to a purchase price | 还有你买价的方式 |
| 123 | is you try to put people in a position | 你试图让人们处于一个位置 |
| 124 | where there's competitive tension, | 在竞争紧张的地方 |
| 125 | and you need a number of bidders, | 你需要一些投标人 |
| 126 | and they'll drive the price. | 他们会把价格。 |
| 127 | In the end, the market will determine what they're worth. | 最终市场会决定它们的价值. |
| 128 | And if someone is paying a number | 如果有人付了号码 |
| 129 | like $12.5 billion, for example, | 例如125亿美元 |
| 130 | there's quite clearly they've got to do their sums | 很明显他们得花点钱 |
| 131 | to work out how they make that money back, | 找出他们如何赚回那笔钱 |
| 132 | whether it's a good investment. | 投资是否良好。 |
| 133 | So there's one thing is in the ticket sales, | 因此,有一件事 在售票, |
| 134 | then there's maybe the sports rights, | 也许还有运动权 |
| 135 | then there's the merchandising | 然后是买卖 |
| 136 | and everything else that goes with it. | 和所有随身携带的东西 |
| 137 | I wonder in this age of sort of AI and streaming, | 在这种AI和流畅的时代里, |
| 138 | how much that model has changed lately. | 这个模型最近变了多少 |
| 139 | This is a unique asset class | 这是一个独特的资产类 |
| 140 | because the real driver here is media content value. | 因为这里真正的驱动程序是媒体内容值。 |
| 141 | There is nothing like sports content. | 没有什么比体育内容更好的了。 |
| 142 | 99.5% of people that watch sports watch it live. | 99.5%的观众观看运动现场直播. |
| 143 | So the value to advertisers is gonna go up. | 所以广告商的价值会上升。 |
| 144 | The other thing you have to remember here | 还有一件事你要记住 |
| 145 | is there's scarcity. | 缺乏。 |
| 146 | So if you want to buy an NBA team, | 如果你想买NBA球队 |
| 147 | you have a limited number of opportunities to buy it. | 您拥有有限的购买机会。 |
| 148 | The last thing is that the product lifecycle | 最后一件事是产品生命周期 |
| 149 | of businesses is shrinking. | 企业正在缩小。 |
| 150 | Sports changes very slowly. | 运动变化非常缓慢. |
| 151 | And I would hazard to guess that the odds are better | 我冒着危险猜想 机会会更好 |
| 152 | that in a hundred years, | 一百年后,我终于知道 |
| 153 | the New York Yankees will be here, | 纽约洋基队会来 |
| 154 | then Apple computer will be here. | 然后苹果电脑会在这里。 |
| 155 | And people see that and it's a great hedge | 人们看到,这是一个伟大的篱笆 |
| 156 | against their technology investments. | 与他们的技术投资相对应。 |
| 157 | That's why many, many wealthy people | 这就是为什么很多,很多富人 |
| 158 | are streaming into the sports business. | 进入体育界。 |
| 159 | And particularly so many firms right now | 特别是现在这么多公司 |
| 160 | are susceptible to the rise of AI. | 容易出现AI。 |
| 161 | I mean, is it your view that live sport | 我的意思是,这是你的观点 现场运动 |
| 162 | absolutely is AI proof? | 绝对是人工智能的证据? |
| 163 | Nothing is AI proof, | 没什么是人工智能证明 |
| 164 | but sports is pretty close to being AI proof. | 但运动几乎是人工智能的证明 |
| 165 | I mean, as long as human beings are still playing the sport | 我的意思是,只要人类还在运动 |
| 166 | and we don't replace them | 我们不会取代他们 |
| 167 | with some mythical figures running around, | 有一些神话人物到处跑 |
| 168 | I don't think people would watch that. | 我不认为人们会看。 |
| 169 | And I think people view it as a really unique asset. | 我认为人们把它看作是一个非常独特的资产。 |
| 170 | It's also, you have to remember | 这也是,你必须记住 |
| 171 | that it's not really correlated to the stock market. | 这与股票市场并不真正相关 |
| 172 | Is that why then, Sal, they make good investments | 这就是为什么,萨尔,他们做好投资 |
| 173 | in terms of that's why they're attractive? | 所以他们才有魅力? |
| 174 | Are rich people with deep pockets coming to you | 有钱人,口袋很深 |
| 175 | because they're not susceptible | 因为它们不易受感染 |
| 176 | to things like the stock market? | 股市之类的东西? |
| 177 | Or are they still just a trophy asset, | 还是他们只是个战利品 |
| 178 | something that they want to say that they own? | 他们想说的东西 他们自己的? |
| 179 | There's some ego gratification value, I believe that. | 有一些自我满足的价值,我相信。 |
| 180 | But I think the bulk of it is investors, | 但我认为大部分是投资者, |
| 181 | smart investors understand | 聪明的投资者明白 |
| 182 | that you don't make money year in, year out | 年复一年不赚钱 |
| 183 | on these investments, | 关于这些投资, |
| 184 | but on exit is where you make your money. | 但是在出口时,你赚钱的地方。 |
| 185 | And these assets have been growing | 这些资产一直在增长 |
| 186 | at low double digit returns for the last 40 years. | 在过去40年中,两位数的回报率很低。 |
| 187 | And that's accelerated somewhat. | 这有点加快。 |
| 188 | I just don't see these assets being a bad investment. | 我只是不认为这些资产是坏投资。 |
| 189 | I just continue to see them going up. | 我只是继续看到他们上去。 |
| 190 | I mean, look, like every investment, | 我的意思是,看, 像每一个投资, |
| 191 | you have to be careful what you invest in. | 你要小心投资 |
| 192 | And different sports are gonna have different levels | 不同的运动会有不同的水平 |
| 193 | of return and have different risks. | 并有不同的风险。 |
| 194 | And when you look around the world, Sal, right now, | 当你环顾世界,萨尔,现在, |
| 195 | where is attractive? | 哪里有吸引力吗? |
| 196 | Where is maybe a bit undervalued? | 哪里可能有点低估? |
| 197 | Because if you look at what private equity is doing | 因为如果你看看 私人股本在做什么 |
| 198 | in the United States, it's looking at Europe, | 在美国,它看着欧洲, |
| 199 | it's buying up a lot of sports teams in Europe. | 它收购了欧洲许多体育队. |
| 200 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 201 | Well, because in Europe, | 因为在欧洲 |
| 202 | there are many more sports teams you can buy | 你可以买更多的运动队 |
| 203 | because you have different levels of teams. | 因为你们有不同级别的队伍 |
| 204 | And some people have the theory | 有些人有这个理论 |
| 205 | that you could buy a second division team, | 你可以买一个第二师的团队, |
| 206 | dump money into it, get it promoted, | 把钱扔进去,升职 |
| 207 | then it's worth a lot more. | 那么它的价值就更高了。 |
| 208 | And if you're a fund, you do that, you buy it, | 如果你是一个基金, 你这样做,你买它, |
| 209 | then you, in theory, can resell it. | 然后,理论上,你可以转售它。 |
| 210 | But there's a lot more risk in Europe | 但在欧洲风险更大 |
| 211 | because you have promotion and relegation. | 因为你有晋升和退职。 |
| 212 | You don't have that in North America. | 在北美你没有 |
| 213 | If you buy an NBA team, you own an NBA team, | 如果你买NBA球队, 你拥有NBA球队, |
| 214 | you can lose every game. | 你可以输掉每场比赛 |
| 215 | You will still own an NBA team. | 你仍将拥有一支NBA球队. |
| 216 | In Europe, if you don't perform, you get relegated. | 在欧洲,如果你不表演, 你会被贬低。 |
| 217 | The other thing is that valuations in the lower levels | 另一件事是低层的估价 |
| 218 | are much lower than they are in the United States. | 比美国低得多 |
| 219 | And I think American money is gonna be looking at | 我觉得美国的钱会看着 |
| 220 | not just Europe, but I think it's gonna be looking at Asia. | 不只是欧洲,我想它会看着亚洲。 |
| 221 | And, you know, I mean, cricket is a huge sport. | 而且,你知道,我的意思是, 板球是一个巨大的运动。 |
| 222 | People are starting to talk about it here. | 人们开始谈论它在这里。 |
| 223 | And Sally, if I came to you today and said, | 还有莎莉 如果我今天来找你 说 |
| 224 | find me something that's gonna make me | 帮我找个能让我 |
| 225 | a great investment in sport right now, | 一项巨大的投资 现在体育, |
| 226 | what would be your sort of your guidelines? | 你的准则是什么? |
| 227 | What is it that you're looking for? | 你们在找什么? |
| 228 | What makes a club attractive? | 什么让俱乐部吸引人? |
| 229 | I think the first thing I look at is demographics. | 我认为我首先看到的是人口统计。 |
| 230 | Where is it located? | 它在哪? 发现什么了? |
| 231 | Because you can't change demographics, right? | 因为你不能改变人口统计,对不对? |
| 232 | If you're in an area that's growing, | 如果你在生长的地区, |
| 233 | where per capita income is going up, | 在人均收入上升的情况下, |
| 234 | where there are more jobs being created, | 在创造更多就业机会的地方, |
| 235 | that is a huge tailwind for you. | 这对你来说是一个巨大的尾风。 |
| 236 | The second thing I look at is the sport. | 我所看到的第二件事是运动。 |
| 237 | How strong is the media content value? | 媒体内容的价值有多大? |
| 238 | You have to look at the stadium. | 你必须看看体育场。 |
| 239 | Is it an old stadium? | 是旧体育场吗? |
| 240 | Is it a new stadium? | 是新体育场吗? |
| 241 | Am I gonna have to put a billion dollars into a new stadium? | 我要把十亿美元 投入到一个新的体育场吗? |
| 242 | But if you have a team that you love | 但如果你有一个你爱的团队 |
| 243 | and you're a high net worth individual, | 你是一个高净值的个人, |
| 244 | you're gonna invest in that team. | 你会投资 在团队。 |
| 245 | And you're probably gonna be the one that wins the bidding. | 你可能会赢得竞标 |
| 246 | Because you have a non-financial incentive to buy that team | 因为你有买球队的非财政奖励 |
| 247 | that other financial buyers don't. | 其他金融买家不会 |
| 248 | Now, whether you're a good owner or a bad owner, | 不管你是好主人还是坏主人 |
| 249 | you'll know over time. | 你会知道的 |
| 250 | Sal, it's so good to talk to you on the programme this week. | 萨尔,很高兴能在这周的节目上和你谈谈 |
| 251 | What a fascinating insight into how all of this works. | 对这一切是如何运作的,真令人着迷 |
| 252 | 我很感激你的时间, Sal Gallo -Chiotto. | |
| 253 | Thank you for being with us. | 谢谢你和我们在一起 |
| 254 | It's my pleasure. | 这是我的荣幸。 |
| 255 | As sports teams around the world are sold for record sums, | 全世界体育队的销量创纪录 |
| 256 | more records are being set in how much those teams | 更多记录 有多少这些团队 |
| 257 | and their leagues can earn for showing their games | 和他们的联盟可以赚取 显示他们的游戏 |
| 258 | on TV and streaming platforms. | 在电视和流媒体平台。 |
| 259 | For fans, it means more expensive subscriptions. | 对于粉丝来说,这意味着更昂贵的订阅. |
| 260 | But are they sustainable when we're feeling the squeeze | 但当我们感到挤压时,它们是否可持续 |
| 261 | from the rising cost of living? | 从不断上涨的生活成本? |
| 262 | I've been finding out | 我一直在调查 |
| 263 | from one of the world's top TV sports rights executives. | 来自世界顶级电视体育权高管之一. |
| 264 | Daniel Cohen, welcome to Talking Business. | 丹尼尔·科恩 欢迎来到"谈生意" |
| 265 | Good to have you here. | 很高兴你能来 |
| 266 | And it feels like record investment, | 感觉就像创纪录的投资, |
| 267 | record amounts of money in professional sport right now. | 现在职业运动中的钱创下纪录 |
| 268 | Your research suggesting $66.2 billion | 你的研究显示662亿美元 |
| 269 | in just sports media rights alone. | 只有体育媒体的权利。 |
| 270 | Where is all that interest coming from? | 兴趣从何而来? |
| 271 | Ben, it's always been there, | 本,它总是在那里, |
| 272 | but what's happened is partly technology | 但发生了一部分是技术 |
| 273 | and the world getting smaller through that | 这个世界越变越小 |
| 274 | has led to a sports boom | 导致体育繁荣 |
| 275 | and it led to a sports boom in accessibility. | 它导致了运动的繁荣 在无障碍。 |
| 276 | And so a lot of that growth is coming from accessibility, | 因此,很多的增长 来自于无障碍, |
| 277 | being able to watch wherever, whenever you want, | 能够随时随地观察 |
| 278 | sport form, long form, and sports growing globally. | 运动形式,长形式,运动在全球发展. |
| 279 | And that is connecting people and growing fandom. | 这就是连接人们和不断增长的幻想。 |
| 280 | But explain that connection, if you will, | 但是,解释这个联系, 如果你愿意, |
| 281 | between the amount of money | 金额之间 |
| 282 | that investors are paying for these clubs | 投资者正在支付这些俱乐部 |
| 283 | in all sorts of sports, | 在各种运动中, |
| 284 | that's everything from the NFL to the English Premier League, | 从NFL到英国总理联赛 |
| 285 | and then where they recoup their money. | 然后他们把钱找回来 |
| 286 | Is that what's driving the sports rights? | 这就是运动权的动力吗? |
| 287 | Yeah, absolutely. | 当然 |
| 288 | So to the point of the valuation | 因此,到估价点 |
| 289 | of some of these sports franchises, | 其中一些体育特许权, |
| 290 | well, first and foremost, | 嗯,首先,首先, |
| 291 | sports are finally being looked at | 体育终于被关注 |
| 292 | as an investable asset class. | 作为可投资资产类别。 |
| 293 | They were trophy pieces. | 他们是奖杯的碎片。 |
| 294 | Second piece is the fact that there's this scarcity effect. | 第二块是存在这种稀缺效应的事实. |
| 295 | Unlike any other commodity out there, | 和外面其他商品不同 |
| 296 | there is truly only 30 of these types of teams | 这些类型的队伍中,确实只有30个 |
| 297 | in a certain league. | 在一个特定的联盟。 |
| 298 | And the third is it is truly an anti-AI bet right now. | 第三,它是一个真正的反AI的赌注 现在。 |
| 299 | So if you are looking at where to put your billions of dollars | 所以,如果你在看 在哪里放置你的数十亿美元 |
| 300 | into something that isn't necessarily chip driven | 变成不一定是芯片驱动的东西 |
| 301 | or AI driven, | 或由人工智能驱动, |
| 302 | sports teams and sports IP is the best answer. | 体育团队和体育IP是最好的答案. |
| 303 | Yeah, and right now, you know, you'd argue | 是啊,现在,你知道, 你会争论 |
| 304 | that's a bold claim to make that anything is AI-proof, | 这是一个大胆的声称 任何事情都是AI防守, |
| 305 | but I understand the logic. | 但我理解逻辑 |
| 306 | There's still a need for, and a desire, | 仍然有需要和愿望, |
| 307 | for people to want to watch live sport. | 人们想看现场体育。 |
| 308 | And crucially, that element is live. | 关键是,这个元素是活的。 |
| 309 | They're watching it in real time. | 他们正在实时观看 |
| 310 | It's not necessarily something that you watch later | 你以后也不一定会看 |
| 311 | or catch up on. | 或赶上来。 |
| 312 | You're absolutely right. | 你说得对 |
| 313 | And look at where the streaming world has taken us | 看看流水世界把我们带到哪里 |
| 314 | to something called subscription video on demand, | 需要订阅的视频, |
| 315 | but you can't do that for sports. | 但你不能为了运动而这么做 |
| 316 | Sports needs to be consumed real time and live. | 体育需要实时消费和生活。 |
| 317 | And it's the only piece of content, | 这是唯一的内容 |
| 318 | I think, that truly draws crowds | 我觉得,这真的吸引了人群 |
| 319 | and those communities then spend money, | 然后这些社区就花钱, |
| 320 | whether that be through the form of retail, | 不管是通过零售形式, |
| 321 | merchandise, licensing, advertising, et cetera, et cetera. | 商品、许可证、广告等。 |
| 322 | So it really does galvanize. | 因此,它真的会激发。 |
| 323 | You have an emotional tie, | 你有一个情感领带, |
| 324 | unlike perhaps watching a piece of drama programming. | 不像看剧情节目 |
| 325 | And Daniel, what would you say | 丹尼尔,你会怎么说? |
| 326 | is the biggest threat to your industry? | 你行业最大的威胁吗? |
| 327 | Now, I know that illegal streaming of sports is a problem | 现在,我知道 非法流传的运动是一个问题 |
| 328 | and one that is growing. | 一个正在成长的 |
| 329 | Is that a problem for you? | 这对你来说有问题吗? |
| 330 | Yeah, I would say on a global scale, | 是的,我想说在全球范围, |
| 331 | piracy is a major concern. | 海盗是一个主要关切问题。 |
| 332 | I think the other piece that you have to be concerned about | 我想你必须关心的另一篇 |
| 333 | is generally the next generation | 一般是下一代 |
| 334 | of how they consume content. | 他们如何消费内容。 |
| 335 | 75% of, at least in the US, | 75%,至少在美国, |
| 336 | kids ages 12 to 18 who consume sport | 12至18岁学习运动的儿童 |
| 337 | are doing so on a handheld device. | 正在手持设备上这样做。 |
| 338 | If we're not making that sport accessible to where they are | 如果我们不让运动进入他们的位置 |
| 339 | and through the platforms in which they use, | 和通过其使用的平台, |
| 340 | then we're the ones to blame | 那就怪我们 |
| 341 | for drops in viewership, drops in interest, | 以观景者为食,以利息为食, |
| 342 | decreases in spend on merchandise and jerseys, ticket sales. | 商品和球衣、售票费用减少。 |
| 343 | And we need to keep that top of mind | 我们需要保持最高的头脑 |
| 344 | where the next generation is consuming. | 即后世所消费的地方。 |
| 345 | So I do think we're gonna get back to a place | 所以我觉得我们该回到一个地方 |
| 346 | where there will be fewer subscriptions needed. | 需要订阅的用户将减少。 |
| 347 | And Daniel, you're at Sportel there in Monaco. | 丹尼尔,你在摩纳哥的斯波特尔 |
| 348 | That's the meeting of all the sports industry bosses | 这是所有体育界老板的聚会 |
| 349 | and broadcasters. | 和广播公司。 |
| 350 | I wonder whether those bosses understand | 不知道那些老板有没有明白 |
| 351 | some of the frustration that fans might have | 粉丝们可能有些失望 |
| 352 | because there's a real danger | 因为有真正的危险 |
| 353 | that by raising prices too much, | 价格上涨太多, |
| 354 | you alienate the people who are ultimately paying for it. | 你疏远了最终要付出代价的民众。 |
| 355 | That's a great question. | 问曰. |
| 356 | And that's, again, top of mind | 这是,再次,最高的头脑 |
| 357 | of one of the concerns of building and growing the sport, | 建设和培育体育事业, |
| 358 | be it a league or an individual team moving forward. | 不管是联赛还是个人球队前进 |
| 359 | But I do hear a lot of positivity | 但我确实听到很多的假设 |
| 360 | coming out of Sportel here. | 从斯波特尔出来 |
| 361 | And I really am very, very bullish | 我真的非常,非常胆小 |
| 362 | on leagues understanding the frustration | 理解挫折感 |
| 363 | of the fan on fragmentation. | 粉丝的破碎。 |
| 364 | I think part of that will be solved | 我想其中的一部分会解决的 |
| 365 | through greater consolidation | 通过进一步合并 |
| 366 | at the M&A level of media companies, | 在传媒公司的合并和收购一级, |
| 367 | but also the use and continued growth | 以及使用和持续增长 |
| 368 | of free-to-access short-form content highlights | 免费访问的短格式内容概要 |
| 369 | and athlete-driven content engagement that way | 和运动员驱动的内容参与方式 |
| 370 | on social platforms. | 在社交平台上。 |
| 371 | Daniel Cohen, really good to talk to you | 丹尼尔・科恩,很高兴和你说话 |
| 372 | on the programme this week. | 本周的节目 |
| 373 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 374 | Thank you, Ben. | 谢谢你,本。 |
| 375 | Take care. | 小心点 |
| 376 | Coming up after the break, winning in the wallet. | 休息后,在钱包中获胜。 |
| 377 | Just why are sports fans splashing so much | 体育迷们为什么涌来涌去 |
| 378 | on everything from replica jerseys to trading cards? | 从复制式球衣到交易卡 |
| 379 | The billionaire founder of sports retailer Fanatics explains. | 体育零售商Fanatics的亿万富翁创始人解释. |
| 380 | Welcome back to Talking Business. | 欢迎回来谈生意。 |
| 381 | Now, this week, we're looking at the rising cost of sport. | 现在,这个星期,我们正在研究运动成本的上升。 |
| 382 | And as well as the sporting action on the pitch, | 还有球场上的体育赛事 |
| 383 | it seems there's more and more money to be made off the pitch. | 投球赚的钱越来越多了 |
| 384 | From football to basketball to Formula One, | 从足球到篮球 到一级方程式 |
| 385 | sports fans are spending huge sums on replica shirts | 体育迷花巨资买复制衫 |
| 386 | and other merchandise. | 和其他商品。 |
| 387 | Even trading cards that first appeared in the 1860s | 甚至1860年代首次出现的交易卡 |
| 388 | are increasingly lucrative. | 越来越有利可图 |
| 389 | A single card can now fetch millions of dollars. | 单张牌现在能赚上百万美金 |
| 390 | And for companies like the US-based Fanatics, | 对于美国幻影公司来说 |
| 391 | which, among other things, makes and sells the merchandise | 特别是制造和销售商品 |
| 392 | online and in physical stores, it is big business. | 网上和实体商店都是大生意 |
| 393 | I've been catching up with the founder and chief executive. | 我一直在追寻创始人和首席执行官 |
| 394 | Michael Rubin, welcome to Talking Business. | 迈克尔·鲁宾 欢迎光临谈生意 |
| 395 | Good to have you here. | 很高兴你能来 |
| 396 | And look, in this programme, | 你看,在这个节目中, |
| 397 | we're talking about the business of sport. | 我们谈论的是体育事业 |
| 398 | And the area you look after is sort of the retail bit of that. | 你所照顾的地区 有点像零售区。 |
| 399 | Talk to me how important retail is in all of its different guises. | 和我说说 零售业在各种伪装中有多重要 |
| 400 | How important that is to sport. | 这对体育有多重要。 |
| 401 | Look, for us, retail is incredibly important. | 对我们来说 零售业非常重要 |
| 402 | You know, we grew up as an e-commerce business. | 你知道,我们长大 作为一个电子商务业务。 |
| 403 | That's where we started. | 这就是我们开始的地方。 |
| 404 | But there's nothing like putting an incredible experience together | 但没有什么比把 一个不可思议的经验在一起 |
| 405 | and touching fans. | 和感人的粉丝。 |
| 406 | And we do that in so many different ways. | 我们以很多不同的方式这样做。 |
| 407 | We opened our first Finesse collectible store last year. | 去年我们开了第一家Finesse收藏店 |
| 408 | That was... | 这是... |
| 409 | It's in the heart of London, on Regent Street. | 位于伦敦市中心,摄政街. |
| 410 | It was supposed to be an $8 million location. | 本来应该是一个800万美元的地点. |
| 411 | It's going to do $40 million in its first full year in business. | 其首年全年营业额将达到4000万美元. |
| 412 | We have our second store opening in Paris. | 我们在巴黎开了第二家店 |
| 413 | And, you know, for us, having great retail, | 而且,你知道,对我们来说, 拥有伟大的零售业, |
| 414 | great venue, great collectible stores, | 伟大的场地,伟大的收藏品, |
| 415 | all just tell stories for us. | 都给我们讲故事 |
| 416 | It's not so different in the fangir business, | 在粉丝生意上没什么不同 |
| 417 | where we operate big flagship stores like PSG Store. | 在那里我们经营大型旗舰商店 像PSG Store。 |
| 418 | They've won the Champions League the last two years in a row. | 他们连续两年获得冠军联赛冠军. |
| 419 | And when we go out and they win a Champions League, | 当我们出去,他们赢得冠军联盟, |
| 420 | we're telling that story. | 我们正在讲这个故事。 |
| 421 | And it's about just how to connect with the PSG fan | 和PSG的粉丝联系 |
| 422 | in any way that that fan imagines. | 不论粉丝怎么想 |
| 423 | And what's the correlation here between success on the pitch | 成功之间的关联是什么? |
| 424 | and success off the pitch? | 成功成功吗? |
| 425 | I mean, if the team is doing well, do you sell more of that stuff? | 我的意思是,如果球队做得好, 你卖更多的那些东西? |
| 426 | It's not like a minor thing. | 岂非小事. |
| 427 | It's a major thing. | 这是一件大事。 |
| 428 | So when a team is doing great, like PSG is performing, | 所以当一个团队做得很好, 像PSG的表演, |
| 429 | sales are exponentially higher. | 销售额高得惊人。 |
| 430 | When a team is doing poorly, sales are exponentially worse. | 当一个团队表现不佳时,销售量会急剧下降。 |
| 431 | And that's why our business is so unique. | 这就是为什么我们的生意如此独特。 |
| 432 | You know, we build a business where everything is about speed to market. | 你知道,我们建立了一个企业 在那里,一切都是 关于速度到市场。 |
| 433 | When a player gets hurt, nobody wants that kit. | 当一个玩家受伤时, 没有人想要那个工具箱。 |
| 434 | But when they're hot, when they're doing well, | 但是,当他们热, 当他们做得很好, |
| 435 | everyone wants those products. | 每个人都想要这些产品。 |
| 436 | And we need to figure out how to make sure to take care of the family, | 我们要想办法照顾好家人 |
| 437 | whatever they need and whatever channel they want, | 无论他们需要什么 也无论他们需要什么频道 |
| 438 | whether it's at the venue, whether it's high street, | 无论是在会场, 无论是高街, |
| 439 | you know, in city retail, whether it's online. | 你知道,在城市零售, 它是否在线。 |
| 440 | What is it do you think about sports | 你对体育有什么看法? |
| 441 | that drive spending in this way? | 驱动支出的方式? |
| 442 | People might not have a lot of money in their pocket right now, | 人们现在口袋里可能没那么多钱 |
| 443 | but they seem to be still willing to spend on merchandise, | 但他们似乎仍然愿意花在商品上, |
| 444 | replica shirts, collectible cards, all that sort of stuff. | 复制的衬衫,可以收藏的卡片, 所有这类的东西。 |
| 445 | You know, is it recession proof? | 你知道,这是衰退的证明吗? |
| 446 | Well, look, I don't think anything is recession proof. | 我不认为什么是衰退的证据 |
| 447 | That would be unrealistic. | 这样做是不现实的。 |
| 448 | But I'd say we're going to outperform during a recession. | 但我会说,我们会 超过在经济衰退。 |
| 449 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 450 | There's a couple of billion sports fans globally who, you know, | 全球有几十亿体育迷,你知道, |
| 451 | one of the most important things in their life is their sports team, | 他们生命中最重要的一件事 就是他们的体育队 |
| 452 | their fandom. | 他们的狂热。 |
| 453 | And so, you know, I'd say to you, you know, how much time you spend, | 所以,你知道,我会告诉你, 你知道,你花了多少时间, |
| 454 | you know, focus on the teams that you love and you care about. | 专注于你爱和关心的团队 |
| 455 | You know, I'd say there's billions of obsessive sports fans in the world | 你知道,我会说世界上有数十亿 迷恋运动的球迷 |
| 456 | and that's what drives our entire business. | 这就是我们整个生意的动力 |
| 457 | Talk to me about the other stuff, things like the collectible cards. | 跟我说说其他的事 比如那些可以收藏的卡片 |
| 458 | I mean, this is an age old industry. | 我的意思是,这是一个古老的行业。 |
| 459 | I think they were first invented, what, in the 1800s, weren't they? | 我认为它们是第一次发明的 在1800年代,不是吗? |
| 460 | Still going strong today. | 今天还很强壮 |
| 461 | What is it about that part of the business that seems to do so well? | 那部分生意怎么这么好? |
| 462 | I'd say it's doing substantially better today, | 我想说今天好多了 |
| 463 | and that's really because of the product innovation that Fanatics has created. | 这其实是因为Fanatics创造的产品创新。 |
| 464 | It's because of the marketing that we've put behind this | 是因为市场营销,我们把这件事 |
| 465 | and it's because of the athletes being so engaged and being so excited about it. | 这是因为运动员们如此热衷于并如此兴奋。 |
| 466 | I mean, there's not a day that goes by where one of the top athletes | 我的意思是,没有一天可以走 在那里,一个优秀的运动员 |
| 467 | in the world isn't hitting me about collectibles. | 这个世界不是在打我 关于收藏品。 |
| 468 | We started in 2022. | 2022年开始. |
| 469 | It was about a 500 million dollar business the year before we kind of got started. | 在我们开始前的一年里, 大约有5亿美元的业务。 |
| 470 | It's five and a half billion this year, so 11 times in the past five years. | 今年是55亿,所以在过去五年里是11次。 |
| 471 | And that's purely based on product innovation, | 这是纯粹基于产品创新, |
| 472 | marketing reach and athlete engagement. | 营销范围和运动员参与。 |
| 473 | And these businesses, which ultimately is what these sports teams are, | 而这些企业, 最终是这些运动队, |
| 474 | are increasingly global. | 日益全球化。 |
| 475 | How do you cater for that, though? | 你如何满足它,虽然? |
| 476 | I mean, are you doing different products for different markets | 我的意思是,你做不同的产品 在不同的市场 |
| 477 | or is it one product that works all the way around the world? | 还是一个产品能在世界各地运作? |
| 478 | No, I think localization is really important. | 不 我觉得本地化很重要 |
| 479 | We'll even see what you do in each city for a team. | 我们甚至可以看看你在每个城市为团队做什么 |
| 480 | You know, when we operate, you know, a flagship partner like Chelsea in London | 你知道,当我们运行, 你知道,一个旗舰伙伴 像切尔西在伦敦 |
| 481 | or PSG in Paris, you need to say, how do I service those fans everywhere in the world? | 或者巴黎的PSG,你需要说, 我如何服务这些球迷 在世界各地? |
| 482 | So we're just to put this in perspective, | 所以,我们只是 把这个角度, |
| 483 | more than 100 different countries have customers buying directly from Fanatics | 100多个国家的客户直接从Fanatics购买 |
| 484 | for PSG and for Chelsea. | 给PSG和切尔西 |
| 485 | And we'll see the same thing with the NBA. | 而在NBA中也会看到同样的情况. |
| 486 | We'll see the same thing with the NFL, because these truly are global businesses. | 我们也会看到NFL的同样之处, 因为这些确实是全球企业。 |
| 487 | And what works in one market could be very different. | 在一个市场里起作用的 可能完全不同 |
| 488 | I mean, you need to build products that are right for each market. | 我的意思是,你需要建立的产品 是适合每个市场。 |
| 489 | And then you need to take what's happening locally for each team | 然后,你需要承担 当地发生的情况 每个团队 |
| 490 | and bring that to market as well. | 把它也带到市场去 |
| 491 | And how do you stop it being just a case of sticking a logo on a bit of clothing? | 你如何阻止它只是 在一个小衣服上贴个标志? |
| 492 | Where do you make that a genuine bit of merchandise and not just, | 你从哪里弄来真正的商品 而不是单纯的 |
| 493 | you know, we've stuck a logo on a hat and we're selling it at a premium price? | 你知道,我们已经在帽子上贴了个标志 并且我们以高价出售它? |
| 494 | Well, first of all, logo slapping, as we call that, doesn't work. | 嗯,首先,标志拍打, 我们称之为,不工作。 |
| 495 | I think we need to challenge ourselves and all of the third party vendors | 我认为我们需要挑战自己和所有第三方供应商 |
| 496 | we work with, because we work with 200 vendors that make merchandise | 我们合作,因为我们合作 与200个供应商 做商品 |
| 497 | that we buy from them as well, in addition to the products | 除了产品,我们还从他们那里购买 |
| 498 | that we design and develop and make ourselves. | 我们设计、发展和造就自己 |
| 499 | We have three million products that we sell today. | 我们有三百万种产品,我们今天销售。 |
| 500 | Each product has a, you know, a customer review. | 每个产品都有客户审查 |
| 501 | And we say, if the review is not high enough, we take it off the site. | 我们说,如果审查不够高,我们把它从网站上删除。 |
| 502 | So we want customers to tell us what they think. | 所以我们希望顾客告诉我们他们的想法。 |
| 503 | And we're always pushing the products to have the best reviews | 我们总是推动产品 得到最好的评论 |
| 504 | and always looking to say, what should we not carry anymore? | 并总是想说, 我们不应该再携带什么? |
| 505 | What are customers not like? | 顾客不喜欢什么? |
| 506 | And we've got to just really listen to the fans. | 我们必须听粉丝们的歌 |
| 507 | Michael Rubin, good to talk to you on the programme this week. | 迈克尔·鲁宾 本周的节目 很高兴和你谈谈 |
| 508 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 509 | Great to be with you, my friend. | 很高兴和你在一起,我的朋友。 |
| 510 | That's all for this week. | 就这周 |
| 511 | You can keep up to date with all the latest on the global economy | 你可以跟上全球经济的最新发展 |
| 512 | on the BBC News website and smartphone app. | BBC新闻网站和智能手机应用. |
| 513 | But until next time, thanks for watching and we'll see you soon. | 但下次,谢谢你的观看,我们会很快见到你。 |
| 514 | Bye bye. | 再见 |
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