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BBC专访英国新首相伯纳姆:如果有必要,会公开反驳特朗普以维

字幕摘录

时间英文中文
0:00Prime Minister, your springboard to power was being a very popular mayor here in Manchester,总理,你掌权的跳板 是一个非常受欢迎的市长 在曼彻斯特,
0:05but now you represent all of us in the UK and all of us around the world at a time of huge turmoil.但是现在你代表了我们所有英国人 和全世界所有的人 在一个巨大的动荡时期
0:12The UK's biggest ally is Donald Trump.英国最大的盟友是唐纳德·特朗普.
0:14How was your first call with him?你第一次和他通话怎么样?
0:15It was a good call.这是一个很好的决定。
0:16It was a warm call.这是一个温暖的电话。
0:18It lasted for 15 minutes or so.它持续了15分钟左右。
0:21It got us off to a good这让我们有了好结果
0:26start and obviously it's a relationship that you take extremely seriously.开始,显然这是你极其认真对待的关系。
0:33I need to build a way我要想办法
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序号英文中文
1Prime Minister, your springboard to power was being a very popular mayor here in Manchester,总理,你掌权的跳板 是一个非常受欢迎的市长 在曼彻斯特,
2but now you represent all of us in the UK and all of us around the world at a time of huge turmoil.但是现在你代表了我们所有英国人 和全世界所有的人 在一个巨大的动荡时期
3The UK's biggest ally is Donald Trump.英国最大的盟友是唐纳德·特朗普.
4How was your first call with him?你第一次和他通话怎么样?
5It was a good call.这是一个很好的决定。
6It was a warm call.这是一个温暖的电话。
7It lasted for 15 minutes or so.它持续了15分钟左右。
8It got us off to a good这让我们有了好结果
9start and obviously it's a relationship that you take extremely seriously.开始,显然这是你极其认真对待的关系。
10I need to build a way我要想办法
11of working with the President that works for him, that works for us too, and I'll always be clear与为他工作的总统合作, 也为我们工作, 我会永远清楚
12about where I think Britain's interest lies.关于英国的利益所在
13I'm not going to go into this and not be clear about我不会说清楚的
14that, but I think it's always important.不过我觉得这很重要
15I am somebody who tries to work with people,我是想和别人合作的人
16make that connection with people.与人建立这种联系。
17I think we made an initial connection and obviously we'll see我想我们初步联系了一下 很明显我们会看到
18where we go from here.从这里开始
19Do you think that you can trust Donald Trump?你觉得你能信任唐纳德·特朗普吗?
20I've had one phone call and I always treat people as I find them and it was a good exchange.我打了一个电话 总是把人当做我找到的人 交换的很好
21It was,这是,
22as I said before, it was a warm exchange.正如我之前说过的,这是一个温暖的交换。
23I am that kind of politician.我是那种政治家。
24I always will see,我总是会看到
25judge people as I find them.在我找到他们的时候 审判别人
26I've lived my whole life by that and I will continue to live my life我一辈子都靠这个生活,我将继续生活
27by that.由这个。
28Sometimes you get an impression of somebody from media.有时你会从媒体上得到某人的印象。
29I will judge as I find我会在发现的时候判断
30and I found him to be really warm on Monday, but obviously we will continue to build a relationship我发现他周一很暖和 但我们显然会继续建立关系
31as we go forward.继续前进
32But as things stand, you're not sure.但就目前情况来看,你不确定.
33You'll feel your way, you're not sure你会觉得你的方式,你不确定
34at this stage that you can place your trust in him as a fellow.在这个阶段,你可以信任他作为一个朋友。
35It's a changing world, isn't it?这是一个变化的世界,不是吗?
36You just have to obviously call things as they develop.你只需要在事物的发展过程中 直呼其名
37I can't at any point say that I won't我从不说我不会
38take a different opinion from him, that I will need to voice a different opinion that is right对他有不同的看法,我需要表达不同的看法
39for Britain and I will do that.对英国和我会做到这一点。
40So you'd be willing to call Donald Trump out if you think所以,如果你觉得唐纳德·特朗普
41that's the right thing?是这样吗?
42Of course.当然
43You've got to go into this.你必须去 这一点。
44All leaders have to do that.所有领导人都必须这样做。
45You have to defend your own national interests before anything else.你必须首先捍卫自己的国家利益。
46That's what you're required这就是你需要的
47to do if you're to do this job properly.如果你要做好这个工作的话
48I will always put Britain's interests first.我会永远把英国的利益放在首位
49And when you look at government spending, the cost of sickness and disability benefits当你看政府开支时 疾病和残疾津贴的费用
50for working-age people is now almost as much as the defence budget.对于工作年龄的人来说,现在几乎相当于国防预算。
51Are there people claiming有人说
52who, in your view, don't need them?你认为谁不需要他们?
53Well, I wouldn't necessarily go straight to blaming好吧,我不一定直说
54those people because that is kind of implicit in what you are saying.那些人是因为你所说的话 有点含蓄
55What I would say我会说什么
56is that there are people in the benefits system, young people in their 20s, who have been, I would福利体系中有些人,20多岁的年轻人, 我愿意
57say, quite seriously let down because the support wasn't there for them when it should have been说,相当严肃的 失望,因为支持 没有他们,当它应该
58And that may be the cause, and I'm not suggesting you blame anyone, but the outcome for many people这可能是原因,我不建议你责怪任何人, 但结果很多人
59watching this is that they believe there are lots of people who are claiming benefits who don't他们相信有很多人 声称没有福利
60necessarily need them.一定需要他们。
61They could be making other choices.他们可能正在做出其他选择。
62So I suppose my specific question to you所以,我想我的具体问题给你
63is do you think there are people in this country who claim benefits who don't need them, who could你觉得这个国家有人 要求福利 谁不需要,谁可以
64be making other choices for themselves?为自己做其他选择?
65Well, I'm certain, to answer your question, I am certain嗯,我确定,为了回答你的问题,我确定
66there are people out there who, with the right support, can go into work.外面有人,在正确的支持下, 可以去工作。
67But I stress that point,但我强调这一点,
68the right support.正确的支撑。
69They often don't get given the right support.他们往往得不到适当的支持.
70Does your plan for welfare,你有福利计划吗?
71though, currently include reducing benefits from anyone who currently receives them or removing不过,目前包括减少目前领取补助金者的福利,或取消
72them from anyone who currently receives them?是从任何人那里得到的?
73Because there'll be some people watching this因为有人会看这个
74who think there are too many people on benefits who play the system.他们认为有太多的人 在福利谁玩这个系统。
75There'll be other people会有别人的
76who might feel really anxious that benefits they rely on will be taken away from them.他们可能感到很焦虑 他们所依赖的好处将被夺走
77It's about changing the nature of the support and making some of the support conditional upon这是关于改变支持的性质 并使一些支持的条件
78people taking opportunities that are presented.人们抓住机会。
79So you might increase the conditions required to这样你就可以增加条件
80receive benefits.领取津贴。
81I think it's a good thing that the government has given guarantees of opportunities我认为这是好事,政府 已经保证的机会
82for young people, and I think we need to continue down that approach.为了年轻人,我认为我们需要继续采取这种做法。
83The thing I'm just pushing我只是在推动
84back on is this idea that we go to a crude approach, crude cuts to benefits to get the回想起来,我们采取粗略的方法, 粗略地削减好处,以获得
85welfare bill down.福利法案下来。
86Often that just pushes people into even more crisis and then even more public通常这只会把人们推向 更多的危机,然后更公开
87spending in another part of the system.在系统的另一部分支出。
88You have this week doled out quite a lot of things that这周你做了很多事情
89you hope people will like.你希望人们会喜欢。
90People may well like them, capping bus fares, also promising to cut人们可能会喜欢他们, 封顶巴士票价, 也答应削减
91taxes on pubs and take VAT off electricity.对酒吧课税,把增值税扣掉电费。
92But the country's problems and the country's debts但是国家的问题和债务
93are massive.非常庞大
94This defence we've discussed, you want finally to fix social care.我们讨论过的这个辩护 你终于想要解决社会关怀了
95We know you care我们知道你在乎
96passionately about that.充满激情
97Will you commit to creating a new social care system before the你是否愿意承诺在
98next election?下次选举?
99I will go as quickly as I can on the reform of social care.我将尽可能快地进行社会护理改革。
100Well it's not because不是因为...
101a whole new system, which is what you asked, takes time.一个全新的系统,这是你要求的,需要时间。
102I think there are major changes you can make我想你可以做出重大改变
103before the next election.在下次选举之前
104People have long stays in hospital, which never should have happened in人们在医院呆了很久,这不应该发生在
105the first place, and then they end up fit to go home but unable to be discharged because the social然后他们最终可以回家 但无法出院 因为社交
106care isn't there.护理没有。
107This costs the NHS billions of pounds and we will never get the NHS back这花费了数十亿磅的NHS 我们永远拿不回NHS
108to good waiting time standards until we fix social care.直到我们恢复社会关怀为止
109And that's the point though isn't it?这就是重点,不是吗?
110This这个
111is something actually in interviews, you and I have discussed this for 20 years, there have been其实是在采访中 你和我已经讨论了20年了
112proposals on the table, very similar proposals that have been put on the table time after time提交讨论的非常类似的提案
113after time after time.过一段时间后。
114This is about political will, is it not?这是关于政治意愿,不是吗?
115And it's about being willing to这是关于愿意
116put money onto it.把钱放在上面
117So you don't, it might be suggested, need to wait for new proposals.因此,也许有人建议你不必等待新的建议。
118This这个
119is about whether or not you as a new Prime Minister want to commit to it, want to commit你身为新总理 是否愿意承诺 是否愿意承诺
120taxpayers money to it, want to commit political energy to it.纳税人为此花钱,想为此投入政治精力.
121And you might not have time.你可能没有时间。
122Whatever随便啦
123political capital I have, I will put in to fixing broken social care and I would not want to leave政治资本,我会把 修复破碎的社会关怀, 我不想离开
124office without having brought in the substantial change, the new system of social care that you办公室没有带来实质性的改变, 新的社会关怀系统,你
125describe.说明。
126I can't put a timeline on it right here right now, but I know actually not just for the我现在不能把时间线放在这里 但我知道 不只是为了
127the needs of the people who need social care support and work within that system.需要社会照顾支助和在系统内工作的人的需要。
128If we don't do it, the NHS will collapse under the weight of trying to care for people who've如果我们不这样做,NHS会崩溃 在重量 试图照顾的人
129really not really needed to end up in the NHS system.真的不需要最终进入NHS系统。
130And the reason that politicians have以及政客们之所以
131often shied away from it, you know, is because of the money and the price tags in this country经常远离它,你知道, 是因为这个国家的钱和价格标签
132for lots of big things are huge and lots of things that you care about are expensive and对于很多大的事情是巨大的, 很多你关心的事情是昂贵的,
133costly.代价很高。
134But we're paying for social care at the moment.但我们现在要支付社会照顾费.
135Should the wealthy in this country get如果这个国家的富人得到
136ready to pay more tax in Burnham's Britain?准备好在伯纳姆的英国交税了吗?
137你甚至让Gary Lineker做了采访
138the other day saying he and his few of his rich pals should pay more.那天说 他和他的几个有钱朋友应该多付点钱
139Maybe on their property,也许在他们的地盘上
140should the wealthy be ready to pay more tax on their assets and their properties?富人是否应该准备好为其资产和财产缴纳更多的税?
141I'm four days in.四天内。
142I mean, you're asking me now to write, you know, the next budget or, you know,我的意思是,你现在要求我写, 你知道,下一个预算 或者,你知道,
143the next manifesto.下一个宣言。
144Because I have a manifesto and I'm serious about sticking to the manifesto.因为我有一份宣言,我是认真的 坚持宣言。
145But you said there was room for maneuver on tax and I'm asking you because you've often argued但你说有税法 我问你 因为你经常争吵
146very clearly that there should be more tax, whether on property or land.显然,无论是财产还是土地,都应该增加税收。
147You're interested你有兴趣
148passionately in fixing social care, which is a very costly thing to do.热情地修复社会护理,这是一件非常昂贵的事。
149We know the country's我们知道这个国家
150debts are enormous.债务是巨大的。
151The demands on defense are enormous.国防需求巨大.
152So there's lots of economists所以有很多经济学家
153that would look at that and say, you've got to find money from somewhere.你一定要从哪里找钱
154So I'll ask again,我再说一遍
155should Gary Lineker wealthy friends be ready to pay more tax?加里·莱克的有钱朋友 应该准备好多交税吗?
156Because you said before,因为你之前说过
157maybe they will have to pay a little more.也许他们得多付点钱
158Well, let me answer it this way.好吧,让我这样回答。
159You know,你知道吗,
160there are people here in Greater Manchester who pay a much higher council tax than people大曼彻斯特有人付比人高得多的议会税
161living in much larger homes in London.住在伦敦更大的房子里
162So the Chancellor before Rachel Reeves was right to因此,在瑞秋・里夫斯之前的总理是正确的
163start to reform council tax to create some fairness there in relation to people in homes that are much开始改革议会的税收 以创造一些公平 相对于人们在家庭中很多
164greater value who haven't seen their council tax go up over the years because of the failure to更值钱的人没有看到 他们的议会税收 多年来,因为没有
165revalue the banding.重新估价带子。
166So, you know, that's an example of something that I think was right.所以,你知道,这是一个例子 我认为是正确的。
167So you would look at reforming the council tax system.所以,你会考虑 改革议会税收制度。
168But I am also saying to you that we need to honour the manifesto upon which Labour但我也向你们表示,我们需要遵守《工党宣言》。
169was elected.当选。
170And if I was to bring forward any changes, obviously,如果我提出任何改变,很明显,
171people would rightly say, well, is this consistent with that manifesto?人们会正确地说,这是否符合宣言?
172So, you know,所以,你知道吗,
173there are big decisions ahead.前面有重大的决定
174You are right about that.你说得对
175You know, I need to你知道,我必须
176be very prudent when it comes to the public finances.在公共财政方面要非常谨慎。
177I will stick to the fiscal rules.我会遵守财政规则
178When it gets to difficult decisions, the public in the last couple of decades have,当它得到困难的决定, 过去几十年的公众,
179in many cases, felt that politicians haven't listened to them when it comes to decisions在许多情况下,政治家们在决定的时候 并没有倾听他们的意见
180about immigration.关于移民。
181Under the current government plans, the suggestion is that people in this根据目前的政府计划,建议人们参与其中。
182country legally, migrants, might have to wait 10 years or perhaps more before they are allowed从法律上讲,移民可能要等10年或更长时间才能获准
183to stay.留下来
184Will you carry on with that plan?你能继续这个计划吗?
185Is that the right approach?这是正确的办法吗?
186Well, that proposal has been under consultation.该建议一直在协商之中。
187And what's your view as the new prime minister?你对新首相的看法如何?
188Well, I come in and I am listening to people's views and will come to a fair resolution.好吧,我进来,我正在倾听人们的观点, 并且会有一个公平的解决方案。
189The那个
190point being, though, I think the worry that people have is the feeling that it's out of control不过,我觉得人们的担心是 感觉自己失控了
191and that we don't have a grip as a country and therefore we don't have the right procedures.我们作为一个国家没有控制权 因此我们没有正确的程序
192So you might look again, though, you're not persuaded that that's the right所以,你可能会再看一遍,虽然, 你不相信这是正确的
193plan because people might be worried about that.计划,因为人们可能会担心。
194I'm going to look at what's been said during the consultation.我要看看协商期间所说的话
195I am not somebody who, if you like,我不是你喜欢的人
196doesn't recognise the public call for firmer control of the immigration system.并不承认公众要求更严格地控制移民制度。
197And I actually其实
198heard this from people, again, in my constituency, and I mentioned social care before and I see在我的选区里,我又从人们那里听到这个, 我之前提到了社会关怀,我看到了
199people contributing to our society by working in social care, who in many cases come from around在社会关怀中为社会做出贡献的人,他们在许多情况下来自周围
200the world to work there or work in the NHS.在那里工作,或者在NHS工作。
201I don't think people actually say that that我觉得人们不会这么说
202is something that we don't want.是我们不希望的
203We want people, when they're here and making a contribution,我们想要人,当他们在这里 和贡献,
204to be able to be, if you like, supported and welcome to you.可以,如果你愿意, 支持和欢迎你。
205But you said clearly you're not yet persuaded that that is the right way to go,但你说得很清楚,你还没说服 这样做是正确的
206so that people will be interested to hear that.这样人们才会感兴趣地听到
207Well, I'm looking at the consultation.我在看咨询
208I think it's fair enough for me to say,我觉得我应该说
209four days into the job, where there has been discussions going on, that, you know, I kind of工作四天后, 一直有讨论, 你知道,我有点
210come in, look at the situation and say, right, let me see what people are saying, let me see the进来看看情况,然后说,对了,让我看看 人们在说什么,让我看看
211balance of the arguments.辩论的平衡。
212And I think people would expect me to bring a new pair of eyes to these我想人们会希望我带一双新眼睛来
213issues and find where the fairness is and the right point of balance.并找出公平所在和正确的平衡点。
214And that's why I have put这就是为什么我放
215a pause on the early release scheme.暂停提前释放计划。
216It's why the review I've initiated is real.这就是为什么我发起的审查是真实的。
217And, you know,还有,你知道,
218if changes are needed, I will make them.如果需要改变,我会改变的。
219And that's the approach I'm taking.这就是我采取的方法。
220I point to that issue我指的是这个问题
221just because I think that's a fair way to go when I've just come into the role.只是因为我觉得当我刚进入角色的时候 这是一条公平的道路
222One of the things that is also on your desk is a conflict on the edge of our continent.摆在你桌上的还有我们大陆边缘的冲突。
223The那个
224crane war rages on.起重机战争爆发了
225Would you take a call from Vladimir Putin?你会接弗拉基米尔·普京的电话吗?
226I would have to know the circumstances in which that was being requested.我必须知道要求这样做的情况。
227So it's hard to answer所以很难回答
228that question directly.这个问题直接。
229I would obviously want to, first and foremost, take my lead from the person我显然想,首先, 从个人带头
230that I would want to hear from, who would be President Zelensky, who will be coming我想听听,谁是泽连斯基总统,他会来
231here.在这里。
232I look forward to welcoming him.我期待着欢迎他。
233Again, I pay tribute to the former Prime Minister,我再次向前总理致敬,
234who gave him huge personal support.他给了他巨大的个人支持。
235He will get exactly the same from me.他从我这里得到同样的东西
236I would do nothing,我什么都不会做
237absolutely nothing, to undermine him in the conflict in which he is in.在他所处冲突中 绝对没有损害他
238You know,你知道吗,
239my support for Ukraine is unwavering.我坚定不移地支持乌克兰。
240It is 100 percent.这是100%。
241And I will do what in Ukraine people think我会做乌克兰人想做的事
242is the right thing that they need.他们需要的是正确的
243They will have in me a loyal support and I would do nothing that他们一定会支持我 我也不会做那种事
244cuts across that position.穿过那个位置
245You are very, very busy now as Prime Minister and our time is almost up,你现在作为总理非常非常忙 我们的时间快到了
246but you say you come into power will be the biggest change this country's seen in four decades.但你说你上台将是40年来 这个国家最大的变化
247Thing is, 25,000 people voted for you in Makerfield.问题是,25,000人在马克菲尔德投票支持你。
248The 48 million people in the electorate in this选民中有4800万人
249country haven't had a chance to have a say on any of your plans.国家还没有机会 有发言权 你的任何计划。
250Do you rule out having a general你排除有将军
251election before 2029?2029年之前的选举?
252There was no early general election and the thing I would say to you is 20没有提前大选,我要告诉你的是20
253plus, how many million people you just mentioned, voted for a manifesto.加上你刚才提到的几百万人 投票支持宣言
254We're in a parliamentary我们在议会
255democracy, so that is what people voted for and I've got the support of colleagues in parliament民主,所以这就是人们投票支持的 我得到了议会同事的支持
256and it's a parliamentary democracy that we're in.我们的议会民主制
257Rule it out?排除了吗?
258Well, I'm going to rule it out.好吧,我会排除它。
259Yeah,对
260there's no early general election.没有提前大选.
261I don't think people want it.我觉得人们不会想要的
262You know, we've, well,你知道,我们,嗯,
263the opinion polls might say there's a, some people do, some people don't, but the thing is I just民意调查可能会说,有些人有,有些人没有, 但问题是,我只是
264think what I most need to do is get Britain focused on getting the country back where it认为我最需要做的是 让英国集中精力 让这个国家回到它的位置
265should be, getting it working and I do want to be serious about this point, a new politics.应该是的,让它发挥作用 而我确实想认真对待这一点,一个新的政治。
266We've我们已经
267got to bring back some hope in people's lives.必须给人们的生活带来希望
268I'm all about bringing back that hope, taking我要把希望带回来,带走
269pressure off their shoulders as I've done this week or made a start this week, but I know there's我本周或本周开始工作 但我知道有
270so much more to do, but I don't think we get there by going back into another sort of divisive process.但是,我认为我们无法回到另一个分裂的过程。
271Let's all face forward together and get this country working again.让我们一起面对现实,让这个国家重新开始工作.
272Prime Minister, thank you首相,谢谢
273very much for your time today.非常适合你今天的时间。
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