破次元壁同框！当“赫敏”遇到女权教母，这场跨世代对话惊艳了无
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:07 | Hi Gloria. | 嗨,格洛丽亚。 |
| 0:08 | Hi. | 顿 |
| 0:11 | Thank you for being here and for letting me interview you. | 谢谢你来这 让我采访你 |
| 0:15 | This | 这个 |
| 0:15 | opportunity felt so unreal I think to me and I was so nervous that it only kind | 机会感觉如此不真实 我想,我是如此紧张,它只是善良 |
| 0:20 | of hit me about 20 seconds ago that it was really happening so it's a real | 20秒前,我发现它真的发生了 所以它是真的 |
| 0:26 | treat for me and I know everyone here is very grateful for all that you do and | 照顾我 我知道这里的每个人都很感激你所做的一切 |
| 0:31 | that you continue to write and speak publicly and I absolutely loved my life | 你继续写作和公开发言 我绝对爱我的生活 |
| 0:37 | on the road. | 上路时. |
| 0:39 | I wanted to start by asking you a few questions about your life and | 我想先问你几个关于你生活的问题 |
展开字幕全文（1010 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Hi Gloria. | 嗨,格洛丽亚。 |
| 2 | Hi. | 顿 |
| 3 | Thank you for being here and for letting me interview you. | 谢谢你来这 让我采访你 |
| 4 | This | 这个 |
| 5 | opportunity felt so unreal I think to me and I was so nervous that it only kind | 机会感觉如此不真实 我想,我是如此紧张,它只是善良 |
| 6 | of hit me about 20 seconds ago that it was really happening so it's a real | 20秒前,我发现它真的发生了 所以它是真的 |
| 7 | treat for me and I know everyone here is very grateful for all that you do and | 照顾我 我知道这里的每个人都很感激你所做的一切 |
| 8 | that you continue to write and speak publicly and I absolutely loved my life | 你继续写作和公开发言 我绝对爱我的生活 |
| 9 | on the road. | 上路时. |
| 10 | I wanted to start by asking you a few questions about your life and | 我想先问你几个关于你生活的问题 |
| 11 | and you personally. | 和你个人。 |
| 12 | In the book you say that you didn't go to school as a child | 书里说你小时候没上过学 |
| 13 | and that you traveled a lot with your mother and father who is an antique | 而且你和你的父母一起旅行很多次了 他们是古董 |
| 14 | dealer. | 毒贩 |
| 15 | Do you think that this kind of unique experience enabled you to see the | 你觉得这种独特的经历 能让你看到 |
| 16 | world differently, differently more imaginatively? | 不同世界,不同世界 更有想象力? |
| 17 | Do you think that it has | 你认为它有 |
| 18 | any bearing on what you ended up doing with your life? | 和你最后的人生有什么关系吗? |
| 19 | I think the absence of | 我认为没有 |
| 20 | school which I regretted at the time you know I wanted to go to school like the | 那时我后悔了,你知道我想去学校 就像... |
| 21 | other kids you know like I saw in movies people lived in houses not in house | 你知道其他孩子,就像我在电影里看到的 人们住的房子,而不是在家里 |
| 22 | trailers but in retrospect I think it was a kind of good thing because I missed | 拖车,但回顾一下 我觉得这是件好事 因为我错过了 |
| 23 | a certain amount of brainwashing especially as it has to do with gender | 某种程度的洗脑,尤其是与性别有关的洗脑 |
| 24 | which was very is still true and was way more true in my childhood so it's odd | 我童年时更真实 所以很奇怪 |
| 25 | how the things that you regret sometimes turn out to be the things that you | 你后悔的事有时候会变成你后悔的事 |
| 26 | celebrate and also the traveling part turned out to equip me well to live | 庆祝和旅行部分 证明我为生活提供了良好的条件 |
| 27 | within security which is a good thing and to lead to a life I never would have | 在安全范围内,这是一件好事 并导致我永远不会有的生活 |
| 28 | imagined because of course I spent a fair amount of time rebelling against | 想象是因为我花了相当长的时间 反抗 |
| 29 | that part of my life since I wanted to be like the other kids but I it allowed | 自从我想像其他孩子一样生活那部分 但我允许 |
| 30 | me to be a feminist organizer on the road. | 我是一个女权组织者 在路上。 |
| 31 | I think anything that when you're | 我想,当你是 |
| 32 | a child that makes you different is really difficult and then what would you | 一个让你不同的孩子 真的很困难 然后你会是什么 |
| 33 | like to address that? | 喜欢处理吗? |
| 34 | I knew this was gonna happen. | 我就知道会这样 |
| 35 | No it's true. | 不,这是真的。 |
| 36 | No but I'm | 没有,但我 |
| 37 | serious because I think it's so important you know that we understand | 认真的,因为我觉得这很重要 你知道我们理解 |
| 38 | that we can't control what happens but we can use what happens. | 我们无法控制事情的发生 但我们可以利用事情的发生 |
| 39 | Definitely I | 当然 |
| 40 | think I mean just to be incredibly superficial I used to hate that I had | ии種琌 и玡癚菇 |
| 41 | strong eyebrows as a nine-year-old I desperately wanted to pluck them and make | 我九岁时就急切地想摘下眉毛 |
| 42 | them two very thin lines and you know you come to you come to embrace these | 他们两条线很薄,你知道你来 来拥抱这些 |
| 43 | things and my mother desperately tried to tell me that it gave my face | 事情和我的母亲 拼命地告诉我 它给了我的脸 |
| 44 | character and that if I made them two thin lines that would be a shame and but | 如果我给他们两条细线 那将是一个耻辱,但 |
| 45 | you you know you don't you don't listen but I think also I spent a long time | 你知道你不听 但我也认为我花了很长时间 |
| 46 | trying to pretend that I wasn't like Hermione when of course I was rather | 假装我不像赫敏 当我当然是相当 |
| 47 | like Hermione and and finally finally have come to accept this fact so and it's | 就像赫敏 最后终于接受了这个事实 |
| 48 | made me you know it's it's made me who I am and and now I celebrate so yeah I | 让我知道它让我成为了自己 现在我庆祝如此 |
| 49 | think that's all that's an interesting journey. | 认为这就是一个有趣的旅程。 |
| 50 | You didn't go to school but you | 你没有上学,但你 |
| 51 | did go on to go to college you went to Smith what was that experience like | 继续上大学 你上过史密斯大学 |
| 52 | having not sort of had a formal education? | 没有受过正式教育? |
| 53 | Well it was heaven at first | 一开始是天堂 |
| 54 | you know because they gave me all the books I wanted to read and three meals a | 你知道,因为他们给了我所有 我想读的书和三餐一 |
| 55 | I mean you know I couldn't understand why everybody else was complaining it was | 我的意思是你知道我不明白 为什么其他人都在抱怨 |
| 56 | great I felt a little insecure though because I had come from a high school | 好极了,我觉得有点不安全 虽然我是高中出身的 |
| 57 | that was how shall we say it was the main thing about it was its football | 这就是我们如何说,这是主要的事情 它的足球 |
| 58 | team let me put it that way and and they were so football crazed that you could | 球队让我这么说, 他们是如此疯狂的足球,你可以 |
| 59 | stay until you were 22 if you played football otherwise you left to work in | 一直待到你22岁 如果你踢足球 否则你离开工作 |
| 60 | the factories or to get married or something so to have come from that kind | 工厂或者结婚 或者从这种地方来的东西 |
| 61 | of high school into Smith made me kind of socially insecure but fortunately I | 高中进入史密斯 让我有点 社会不安全,但幸运的是,我 |
| 62 | didn't know enough to be really insecure because you know after Christmas | 并不知道有多不安全 因为你知道圣诞节后 |
| 63 | vacation people would come with tans you know and and I would think to myself | 度假的人会带棕色的,你知道的, 我会想自己 |
| 64 | gosh I didn't know so many people lived in Florida or California so it was | 我都不知道有这么多人住在佛罗里达州或加州 |
| 65 | falling in love with books and also reading Aristotle about how women are | 爱上了书 读了亚里士多德关于女人的感受 |
| 66 | so immoral immoral or weak we break mirrors we you know there was not only | 如此不道德或软弱 我们打破镜子 你知道 不仅有 |
| 67 | women studies there was no break on male dominance studies I was gonna ask sort | 女性研究没有间断 男性主导研究,我要去问排序 |
| 68 | of when when did you first what did you encounter your first feminist text can | 什么时候你第一次遇到 你的第一个女权主义文字可以 |
| 69 | you remember what the first thing that you came across that started to shift | 你记得你遇到的第一件事 开始转变 |
| 70 | 应该是Virginia Wolf 因为我读过Virginia | |
| 71 | Wolf then but she herself was misunderstood then you know in a way I | 狼当时,但她自己 被误解了,然后你知道的方式我 |
| 72 | mean she was treated as neurotic instead of understanding the abuse she'd | 意思是说她被当成神经科医生 而不是理解她受到的虐待 |
| 73 | suffered in childhood and so on so I think that all of my idealism and hope | 童年受苦,所以我觉得 我的理想和希望 |
| 74 | for change fastened on other countries which is why I took a course on India | 因此我参加了印度课程 |
| 75 | which was very rare because we were then almost always studying European countries | 因为那时我们几乎总是学习欧洲国家 |
| 76 | not any other right colonialism was alive and well in our curriculum and so | 我们的课程里没有其他正确的殖民主义 |
| 77 | my idealism centered on India which had just then recently become independent | 我的理想主义以印度为中心,印度最近才独立 |
| 78 | and it didn't center on me at all I didn't understand that I had any role to | 我完全不明白我该扮演什么角色 |
| 79 | play except to be of service so you went on to well you started as working as a | 玩游戏,除了服务,所以你继续 良好的开始作为一个工作 |
| 80 | journalist and then at some point you kind of segued into the sort of much | 记者,然后在某个时候,你 有点迷惑到那种 |
| 81 | broader larger activism I'm interested in how you yourself when you when you | 更广阔的激进主义,我感兴趣 如何你自己 当你,当你 |
| 82 | think of yourself how do you self-define do you well I still call myself a writer | 想想你自己,你如何自我定义,你很好 我还是自称是作家 |
| 83 | because it's what matters most to me even though the truth of the matter is | 因为这是我最重要的 尽管事情的真相 |
| 84 | I spend more time on the road organizing you know doing other kinds of of | 我花更多的时间在路上组织 你知道做其他种类的 |
| 85 | but I have to say that writing is still the one thing that when I'm doing it I | 但我不得不说,写作仍然是一件事 当我这样做的时候,我 |
| 86 | know I shouldn't be doing anything else as much as I love and excited by | 知道我不应该做 任何事情,像我爱和兴奋 |
| 87 | organizing and seeing groups suddenly become I mean okay here here we are we're | 组织起来,看到团体 突然变成... ...我的意思是... |
| 88 | each looking at each other's backs we are in a hierarchy hierarchy is based on | 我们的等级是建立在 |
| 89 | patriarchy patriarchy doesn't work anywhere anymore and so in groups like | 父权制 父权制在任何地方都行不通 所以在诸如 |
| 90 | this it's great to suddenly see discussions emerge and people somebody | 很高兴突然间看到讨论的出现 有人 |
| 91 | over here asked the question somebody their answers of announcements of | 这里有人问过一个问题 他们的回答是 |
| 92 | upcoming troublemaking meetings the feminist library is about to close | 女权主义图书馆即将关闭 |
| 93 | right and there's a demonstration against its closing hello right as we | 右,有一个示威反对 它关闭的问候,我们 |
| 94 | speak okay yeah as we speak today right there the rent was the rent was raised | 说吧 我们今天说话的时候 房租是涨的 |
| 95 | significantly I think by so it's just it's the writing is personal but I'm | 很明显,我想,所以它只是 它的写作是私人 但我 |
| 96 | very grateful that that I couldn't get published what I thought I hoped to | 非常感谢我没能出版 我想出版的东西 |
| 97 | publish about the women's movement and therefore I ended up in desperation | 发表关于女性运动的报导 结果我陷入绝望 |
| 98 | going out to speak even though I thought I was gonna die and that's how I felt | 尽管我以为自己会死 所以我觉得 |
| 99 | when I first gave my speech I was really convinced that I was gonna die it was | 当我第一次发表演讲时 我真的确信我会死 |
| 100 | all I've learned is you don't die but I still die I still don't die saliva is | 我只知道,你不会死,但我还是会死... ...我仍然不会死... |
| 101 | that yours is that a symptom of nervousness oh you get really dry mouth | 你的就是紧张的症状 哦,你得到真正的干燥的嘴 |
| 102 | right each tooth gets a little Angora sweater on it I can't I just shake and | 每颗牙都有一个小 安哥拉毛衣在上面 我不能只是摇晃和 |
| 103 | I'm just really embarrassed and conscious of the fact that I can see | 我只是很尴尬 并且意识到我看得出来 |
| 104 | people can see me shaking so trying to keep my hands out of view is part of and | 人们可以看到我颤抖 所以试图使我的手 远离视线 是和的一部分 |
| 105 | then I try and introduce them later on so that I don't look really stiff and | 之后我试着介绍一下 以免我看起来很僵硬 |
| 106 | then and also just my mind goes blank often if I'm very nervous which is | 如果我很紧张,我就会失去理智 |
| 107 | really frustrating because I will have prepared for something a lot and and | 真的很沮丧 因为我会准备很多事 |
| 108 | then my mind will go blank but is that different for you when you are being a | 那么,我的思想会一片空白 但对于你来说,当你是一个 |
| 109 | person it's interesting it's been both the most liberating and terrifying | 有趣的是,它既自由又可怕 |
| 110 | things speaking authentically for myself as Emma but but also terrifying there's | 以艾玛的身分说出真实的话 但也令人恐惧 |
| 111 | a freedom in speaking somebody else's words and and pretending to be someone | 自由说别人的话 假装别人 |
| 112 | else but also you kind of it's it's not as meaningful it I mean it's it's a | 更别提了,但你还是有点... ... |
| 113 | transcendent amazing experience I love what I do but to speak from my own | 超乎寻常的体验 我喜欢我所做的 只想从我自己的言语 |
| 114 | experience was was really meaningful to me yeah and I think it's so remarkable | 经验对我来说真的很有意义 是的,我觉得这太了不起了 |
| 115 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}令人钦佩的是 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}你花了一年时间... | |
| 116 | feminist activism to do the United Nations campaign it's really how shall I | 女权主义积极主义 完成联合国运动... ... |
| 117 | say even though you're acting another role I think people come to know you on | 说虽然你在扮演另一个角色 我认为人们会了解你 |
| 118 | screen right and I think we trust you I hope so and that is why I hope that that | 我想我们信任你 我希望如此 这就是为什么我希望 |
| 119 | is why it is so great and important that you are taking that trust and putting it | 这就是为什么它是如此伟大和重要 你拿这个信任 并把它 |
| 120 | to work by giving out activist information by doing lists of books for | 提供积极分子的信息,为 |
| 121 | you know that's that's very precious and unusual don't you think well I mean I | 你知道这是非常珍贵和不寻常的 你不觉得很好,我的意思是 |
| 122 | guess if there were anything I had to hide it would have come out by now I've | 如果有什么我必须隐瞒的 我早就知道了 |
| 123 | been it's been and me too yeah I mean it's been a I've been in the public eye | 是的,我是说,我一直被公众所看 |
| 124 | for a little while now it's been pretty crazy but it's great to get to do this | 有段时间了,它一直 相当疯狂,但这是伟大的 做到这一点 |
| 125 | get to do this with it I'm I'm interested you've spoken about the fact | 我对你说过的事实很感兴趣 |
| 126 | that marriage laws once meant that marriage wasn't equal for men and women | 婚姻法曾经意味着婚姻对男女不平等 |
| 127 | but the feminists and the feminist movement has managed to change marriage | 但女权主义者和女权运动 设法改变了婚姻 |
| 128 | enough to mean that it is possible to have an equal marriage but I'm when when | 足够意味着可以有平等的婚姻 但我是什么时候 |
| 129 | we enter into it there are all sorts of traditions that come along with it and | 我们进入其中 有很多传统 伴随着它, |
| 130 | I'm interested in how how do you have a marriage that is authentically genuinely | 我感兴趣的是,你怎么会有真正的婚姻 |
| 131 | grounded in equality mutual respect for the idea of if you do want to have a | 以平等为基础 相互尊重 如果你真的想要一个 |
| 132 | family or you do want to have a career or and what do you see as being the kind | 家庭或你确实想要事业 或你认为什么样的人 |
| 133 | of booby traps or the kind of the minds that might that might be involved in | 诱杀装置或可能涉及的 |
| 134 | that for a feminist well that's a big question and you know yeah we all get to | 对于一个女权主义的井 这是一个大问题 你知道 是的,我们都得到 |
| 135 | answer it in our own lives but it is important that the law is more equal now | 在自己的生活中回答这个问题,但重要的是,现在法律更加平等。 |
| 136 | at least in our two countries it's still very unequal in many others but if I had | 至少在我们两国, 在许多其他国家,它仍然是非常不平等的, 但是如果我有 |
| 137 | married when I was supposed to get married I would have lost my name my | 结婚的时候,我应该结婚,我会失去我的名字 |
| 138 | credit rating my legal domicile and most of my civil rights so it we have made | 信用评级我的合法住所 和大部分的公民权利,所以我们做了 |
| 139 | that part equal and we have marriage equality it's very important that | 那部分是平等的 我们的婚姻是平等的 重要的是 |
| 140 | everyone who choose chooses to marry is able to marry at least we almost have | 每个选择结婚的人至少可以结婚 |
| 141 | marriage equality we're on our way to marriage equality but there is still the | 婚姻平等,我们正走向婚姻平等,但仍有 |
| 142 | pressure of the outside world that when you leave your door of your household | 外面世界的压力 当你离开你的家门 |
| 143 | means that you are treated differently women who women with children are way | 也就是说,你受到不同待遇 女人与孩子的方式 |
| 144 | less likely to get to be employed and men with children are way more likely to | 更不可能被雇用 带孩子的男人更可能 |
| 145 | be employed because they are perceived as responsible and women are perceived as | 被雇用的原因是,她们被认为负有责任,而且妇女被认为 |
| 146 | distracted so I think it's it's not going to equalize completely in isolation | 分心了,所以我想它不是 要完全平衡 在孤立中 |
| 147 | and and we need to help each other make changes you are far ahead of my country | 而我们需要互相帮助 做出改变 你们远远领先于我国 |
| 148 | in terms of parental leave you know we have no such thing really not even for | 在育儿假方面,你知道我们没有这种东西 甚至真的没有为 |
| 149 | maternity I mean you know we're way behind where where you are and the | 母亲,我的意思是,你知道我们 远远落后于你在哪里 |
| 150 | countries are ahead of where you are so we can we can learn from each other but | 国家领先于你们,所以我们可以互相学习 |
| 151 | I really you know if if you choose to have children I don't think it's | 我真的知道,如果你选择有孩子,我不认为这是 |
| 152 | possible to have a real equal marriage until men are raising children and ours | 在男人抚养孩子和我们孩子之前,可以实现真正的平等婚姻 |
| 153 | loving and nurturing towards children as women are and I'm not I think we are not | 爱和养育孩子 女人是,我不是 我认为我们不是 |
| 154 | just saying that for the sake of women or men and men want to be close to their | 只是说为了女人或男人 想要接近他们 |
| 155 | children it's for the sake of the children because if they do not see that | 孩子们,这是为了孩子们 因为如果他们看不到 |
| 156 | a male human being can be loving and nurturing and patient they won't know | 一个男人可以爱和抚育 他们不会知道 |
| 157 | that that's possible and if they don't see women outside the home being | 如果她们没有看到女人在外边 |
| 158 | achieving and daring and so on they won't know that that's possible I mean we | 他们不会知道那是不可能的 我的意思是我们 |
| 159 | do what we see way more than than what we're told so you know we're we're | 做我们所看到的 远不止我们被告知的,所以你知道我们是 |
| 160 | moving forward slowly and I think that's probably the only way we can | 慢慢地向前走 我认为这也许是我们唯一可以 |
| 161 | because we're what what happened to us in our childhoods is also normalized and | 因为我们是发生在我们童年中的事 也是正常的 |
| 162 | so we go as far as far forward as we can but at another level it's really it's | 因此,我们尽可能地向前走 但是在另一个层面,它确实是 |
| 163 | also important because the family is if we don't have democratic families we're | 也是很重要的,因为家庭是 如果我们没有民主的家庭,我们是 |
| 164 | going to have a democratic society ever and if we don't eliminate violence in | 如果我们不消除暴力, |
| 165 | families we're never going to have a violence free society outside either so | 家庭,我们永远不会有一个 暴力无暴力的社会 外,无论如此 |
| 166 | it's not just about equal relationships and and families it's deeper than that | 不只是平等的关系和家庭 更深层次 |
| 167 | the last I'm going to skip around a little bit now you've brought that up | 最后我要跳过一圈 现在你提起了 |
| 168 | because the last time that we met you gave me a book called sex and world | 因为上次我们见面的时候 你给了我一本名为"性与世界"的书 |
| 169 | peace which I think has got to be one of the best titles I've ever come across | 和平应该是我见过的最好的头衔之一 |
| 170 | it's the two things we want it's true but I got to the fourth page and had to | 这是我们想要的两件事,是真的 但我得到了第四页,不得不 |
| 171 | put the book down because I was so blindsided by this statistic I couldn't | 把书放下,因为我太盲目了 这个统计我不能 |
| 172 | really wrap my head around it and then spent the next 10 minutes trying to | 将我的头围住 然后花了10分钟试图 |
| 173 | and like see if it was really true and it really is grounded in fact but there | 看它是否是真的 它真的根植于事实上 |
| 174 | are now a hundred and one point three men to every 100 women on the planet so | 现在全球每100个女人 就有一百一十三个男人 |
| 175 | women are no longer half of humanity I'm quoting the book here but it says more | 女人不再是人类的一半了 我在这里引用了这本书 但书上说得更多 |
| 176 | lives are lost through violence against women from sex selective abortion female | 妇女因性别选择堕胎而遭受暴力而丧失生命 |
| 177 | infanticide suicide egregious maternal mortality and other linked sex causes | 杀害女婴自杀事件 |
| 178 | then were lost during all of the wars and civil strife of the 20th century I | 在20世纪的所有战争和内乱中 |
| 179 | can't even wrap my head around that figure so all of the wars and civil | 连我的脑袋都包不住 所以所有的战争和平民 |
| 180 | strife of the 20th century so from this perspective the greatest security | 因此从这个角度看 最大的安全 |
| 181 | dilemma then is systematic kind of social devaluation of a female life I'd | 进退两难的是 女性生活的系统性社会贬值 |
| 182 | never come across a statistic like this like I had not understood that we were | 从来没有遇到这样的统计 像我不明白我们是 |
| 183 | literally affecting the balance of the population of the world and how that | 影响世界人口平衡的 |
| 184 | population is made up do you think am I just am I just way behind do you think | 人口是编成的 你认为我只是我只是 落后你认为 |
| 185 | other people understand the kind of effect that we're having and that is | 其他人明白 我们的效应,这是 |
| 186 | kind of on this scale no I don't think so I I don't know I'm not asking for a | 有点太夸张了 不,我不这么认为 所以我不知道我是不是要求一个 |
| 187 | show of hands but I bet that statistic is a surprise to a lot of us here right | 举起手来,但我敢打赌,统计 对我们这里的很多人来说是个惊喜 |
| 188 | and this book which is a wonderful book sex and world peace uses a great image | 这本书是一部美妙的书 性爱和世界和平用一个伟大的形象 |
| 189 | which is a bird having two wings and if one of one wing is broken the bird bird | 是一只两翼的鸟 如果一只翅膀断了鸟 |
| 190 | can't fly so if the female half of the human race is not as safe as and in | 如果人类中一半的雌性人 还没有那么安全的话 |
| 191 | balance with the male half we can't fly and it also points out that the best | 平衡与雄性的一半 我们无法飞行,它也指出最好的 |
| 192 | indicator of whether there will be violence inside a country in the streets | 国内是否在街头发生暴力的指标 |
| 193 | and so on or whether that country will be willing to use military violence | 或该国是否愿意使用军事暴力 |
| 194 | against another country is actually not poverty not access to natural resources | 对另一个国家不利的实际上不是贫穷,不是获得自然资源的机会。 |
| 195 | not religion or even degree of democracy it's violence against females not because | 不是宗教,甚至民主程度 是对女性的暴力,不是因为 |
| 196 | female life is any more important than male life it's not but because it's what | 女性生命比男性生命更重要 它不是,但因为它是什么 |
| 197 | we see first it's what in the family and in the house it's you know the whole | 我们首先看到,这是什么 在家庭和在房子里,你知道整个 |
| 198 | idea that it was it's okay for one group to dominate the other is normalized by | 认为一个团体统治另一个团体是正常的 |
| 199 | that so it's it's important not only to females per se but to everybody that we | 所以,它的重要性 不仅对女性本身 并且对每个人,我们 |
| 200 | look at the microcosm of violence that is and and sexualized violence in war | 审视战争中暴力和性暴力的缩影 |
| 201 | and for all these reasons that we are no longer half the human race crazy I mean | 因为所有这些原因 我们不再是人类一半的疯子 |
| 202 | I often get asked with regards to gender equality I mean really in the face of | 我经常被问到关于性别平等, 我的意思是真的面对 |
| 203 | terrorism and war and poverty and climate change you know is gender equality | 恐怖主义、战争、贫穷和气候变化是性别平等 |
| 204 | really is that really what we should be talking about when these awful things | 这真的是我们应该谈论 当这些可怕的事情 |
| 205 | are going on around the world and I have my own answer but I'm interested in | 我有自己的答案 但我有兴趣 |
| 206 | yours it often gets pushed down to the bottom of the agenda oh well we'll figure | 你经常被推到议程的底部 |
| 207 | this out and then when things are better we'll address the issue of gender | 等事情好转了 我们会解决两性问题 |
| 208 | inequality why do you think it should be because it's the basis of all those | 不平等,你为什么认为它应该 因为它是所有这些的基础 |
| 209 | other things excuse me it's it's what normalizes domination earliest in life | 对不起,这是什么 正常的统治 最早的生命。 |
| 210 | it's it's what it's what has created the bullshit idea that there's feminine and | 这就是它是什么 创造了废话的想法 有女性和 |
| 211 | masculine hello there's human and you know men who have through no fault of | 男人你好,有人类,你知道 男人谁没有过错 |
| 212 | theirs been born into this come to feel that they have to prove their masculinity | 他们生下来就觉得 他们必须证明自己的男子气概 |
| 213 | especially by superiority to women but also by superiority to to other men the | 特别是优于妇女,但优于其他男子 |
| 214 | single root biggest root cause of global warming is forcing women to have | 全球暖化的最大根源是迫使妇女 |
| 215 | children they don't want and increasing population beyond you know if you let | 孩子们,他们不想, 和增加的人口 超出你,你知道如果你让 |
| 216 | women decide what whether and when to have children it it evens out just | 女人决定 是否和何时要生孩子... |
| 217 | slightly over replacement level where wherever I know of in the world that | 在世界上我所知道的地方 |
| 218 | women have been here because it's a health issue you know it's your it's | 女人都来过这里,因为这是一个健康问题 你知道这是你的 |
| 219 | your body it's a health issue and forcing women to have children they | 你的身体是个健康问题 迫使女人生孩子 |
| 220 | don't want which much of the world is doing is is the biggest cause of global | 不想让世界大部分地区 都成为全球最大的事业 |
| 221 | warming there's a one single thing on that list that isn't fundamentally about | 变暖 名单上有一件事 根本上说不上 |
| 222 | the status of half the human race versus the other half what do you say when they | 半个人类和另一半人的地位, 当他们说话的时候,你怎么说? |
| 223 | say mine is a little long okay but I try and soundbite it which is really just to | 说我的有点长,好吧,但我尝试 声音它,这是真的 |
| 224 | say what you said at the very beginning which is that all of these issues I see | 说说你一开始说的话... ...这就是我看到的这些问题 |
| 225 | as being I keep learning over and over and over again are directly linked to | 因为我不断学习 一遍又一遍地与 |
| 226 | and caused by these other issues and that they're intrinsically connected and | 并且是由这些其它问题引起的 并且它们有着内在的联系 |
| 227 | linked and they have to be part of the conversation I mean how different with | 连结在一起,他们必须成为 对话的一部分,我的意思是,如何不同 |
| 228 | the world be if there were women involved in peacekeeping and in treaties | 如果有妇女参与维持和平和条约 |
| 229 | and you know in those negotiations I think they would be really really | 你知道在这些谈判中 我认为他们真的 |
| 230 | different if we had if we had women involved I just do yeah it's not that | 如果我们有女人参与 情况就不同了 我确实有 |
| 231 | we're so wonderful we're not but we don't have our masculinity to prove you | 我们是如此的美妙,我们不是 但我们没有我们的男子气概来证明你 |
| 232 | know so so that the Irish Peace Women or that the women's movement in Liberia was | 爱尔兰和平妇女或利比里亚妇女运动 |
| 233 | you know it's it's just true it's absolutely true that there is a better | 你知道这是真的 这是绝对的,有一个更好的 |
| 234 | statistical chance I mean all the studies show that if you put men together | 我是说所有研究都显示 如果你把男人们团结在一起 |
| 235 | at a table they will choose the most aggressive role even if it's wrong and | 在桌子上,他们会选择最有攻击性的角色 即使它是错误的, |
| 236 | if you put all the women only women together at a table they will choose the | 如果你把所有女人都放在桌子上 他们就会选择 |
| 237 | most conciliatory even if it's wrong so we need each other you know in order to | 最和解的,即使这是错误的 所以我们需要彼此 你知道,为了 |
| 238 | have all of these you need a balance of the two you need a balance of both I | 这些你都需要两个平衡 你需要两个平衡 |
| 239 | think you should get madder at those people who ask you that okay I'll try | 你觉得你应该更生气的人 谁问你,好吗,我会尝试 |
| 240 | I'll try that it's interesting speaking about anger which we are told is not | 我会试着说,这很有趣 谈到愤怒,我们被告知不是 |
| 241 | feminine and you know I think you talk about in my life on the road that's my | 女人和你知道,我认为你在我的生活 谈论在路上,这是我的 |
| 242 | favorite anecdotes which is that when you get really angry you start to cry | 最喜欢的传闻是 当你生气的时候 你开始哭 |
| 243 | and I do the same thing that's really embarrassing and really annoying and I | 我做了同样的事情 真的很尴尬,真的很烦人,我 |
| 244 | loved how and you also talked to Lena Dunham about this in Lenny and I loved | 你和莱娜·邓纳姆谈过了 在兰尼我爱她 |
| 245 | how you said that you know what we should strive to do is to say I'm crying | 你怎么说你知道我们该做什么 就是说我哭了 |
| 246 | because I'm angry not because I'm sad don't confuse the two and well I'm sure | 因为我生气,不是因为我伤心 不要混淆两个,我确定 |
| 247 | it's a little bit of both both in there as well but I'm curious whether you have | 两者都有一点,但我很好奇你有没有 |
| 248 | actually managed to pull this off in your own life I have to confess that I | 我不得不承认 |
| 249 | haven't but I I'm I am going to I am going to this the the the woman who told | 没有,但我要去 我要去这个女人 谁告诉 |
| 250 | me that was an executive in a all-male situation and she also cried when she | 我是一个高管 在全男性的情况下, 她也哭了,当她 |
| 251 | got angry I bet there are lots of people here right okay I think it's because we | 生气了,我打赌这里肯定有很多人 |
| 252 | hold it in for so long and then when we finally let it out it's like a loss of | 坚持了这么久,然后当我们终于让它出来 它就像失去 |
| 253 | control and she's figured out that she should just talk through it and it's all | 控制,她想出 她应该只是说 通过它,这一切 |
| 254 | her male colleagues you may think I am sad no my face is saying one thing but | 她的男同事,你可能会认为我很伤心 我的脸是说一件事,但 |
| 255 | it means this is the way I get mad and she says it works yeah all right so I am | 意思是,我就是这样生气的 她说,它的工作是好的 所以我是 |
| 256 | absolutely gonna try it I mean so so far I haven't been in that situation where | 绝对会尝试,我的意思是,到目前为止,我还没有 在那种情况下, |
| 257 | I've had to keep going yeah because I don't work in her kind of situation but | 我不得不继续前进,因为我不工作 在她那种情况,但 |
| 258 | I'm gonna do it we should both take the pledge we should because it's | и璶暗 и常莱赣钡 |
| 259 | interesting I did a scene recently for a director where we were kind of there | 有趣的是,我最近做了一个场景 导演,我们在那里 |
| 260 | was like improvisation involved and and whatever else and so my character was | 就像是参与即兴表演之类的 |
| 261 | meant to cry in this scene and during and about halfway through he came up to | 他本想在这个场景中哭泣 期间和一半左右 |
| 262 | me and he said why do you keep apologizing after you start crying it's | 我和他说你开始哭之后 为什么要一直道歉? |
| 263 | not in the script and like why are you doing that and I was like I don't know | 不是在剧本上,喜欢 为什么你这样做, 而我就像我不知道 |
| 264 | it for me that's such a natural thing is to start immediately apologizing to | 对我来说,这很自然的是 立即开始道歉 |
| 265 | whoever I am that I'm kind of expressing this expressing this emotion so maybe if | 无论我是谁 我都会表达这种情感 |
| 266 | there were less shame around shame around the crying connecting yes why is | 在哭声中 羞耻感更弱 |
| 267 | there shame around crying exactly I mean I think that people who are watching a | 我意思是,我觉得有人在看 |
| 268 | event and don't cry ought to explain why I agree I love to cry I think crying is | 不应该哭 解释为什么我同意哭 我觉得哭是 |
| 269 | great it also releases stress chemicals as we know you know it's it's good for | 也释放出压力化学物质 因为我们知道这是很好的 |
| 270 | you okay so Justin Trudeau just made his sorry Trudeau just made his | 你没事,所以贾斯汀·特鲁多 刚刚让他的遗憾 特鲁多只是让他的 |
| 271 | cabinet 5050 and this is awesome I was kind of hoping there was gonna be this | 柜子5050,这是真棒 我本来希望会有这个 |
| 272 | landslide where every single other government in the world decided that | 山体滑坡 世界上其他政府决定 |
| 273 | they were gonna do this as well unfortunately that hasn't been the case | 他们本打算这么做的 可惜没有 |
| 274 | but do you think that you know men like this taking the lead and sort of saying I | 但你觉得你认识这样的人吗? 带头说 |
| 275 | don't think this is right I do think we should have parity in our political | 我觉得我们的政治应该平等 |
| 276 | institutions do you think do you think it will start to have an impact well I | 你是否认为它会开始 影响良好 |
| 277 | hope so I mean he had a great answer when asked why he said because it's 2015 | 希望如此,我意思是当他被问到为什么他之所以说,是因为2015年 |
| 278 | and I think we do need to recognize based on sex and class and ethnicity and | 我认为我们确实需要承认 基于性别、阶级和种族 |
| 279 | caste and all kinds of things that if if we if our ruling bodies don't look | 种姓和各种事情 如果我们的统治机构不看 |
| 280 | something like the country there's probably something wrong but it's going | 像国家一样的东西 可能有些不对劲,但它会发展 |
| 281 | to but and it's going to take a very long time which is okay because we're | 但是这需要很长的时间 这是好的,因为我们 |
| 282 | going to have a lot of fun fighting the revolution it is going to take time you | 这场革命会很有趣的 需要你时间 |
| 283 | know I'm I'm comforted by the the Native American and on my continent that they | 我对美洲原住民和我的大陆感到安慰 |
| 284 | always say you know it takes four generations to heal one act of violence | 总是说你知道要四代人才能治愈一种暴力 |
| 285 | because it's normalized in that way so you know I do think we need to celebrate | 因为它是正常的,所以你知道... ...我觉得我们需要庆祝 |
| 286 | how far we've come and take a long view at the same time that in the moment we | 我们走了多远 花了很长的视线 同时,我们 |
| 287 | do everything we possibly can it's not to hold back but it's also not to be | 尽我们所能 阻止它,但它也不是 |
| 288 | discouraged at the slowness yeah having spent a little bit of time with you it's | 迟钝了 跟你呆了一段时间 |
| 289 | really funny the first time we met I went away and I and I went and saw a | 我们第一次见面的时候真的很好笑 我走了,我和我去看到一个 |
| 290 | friend and she's like what was she like what was glorious like well she was | 朋友,她喜欢什么 她喜欢什么是荣耀 像她很好 |
| 291 | really then like you just seem on the one hand it looks good from where I'm | 真的很像你只是看起来 一方面它看起来很好 从我在哪里 |
| 292 | sitting but the challenge at times seems sort of like insurmountable and you know | 坐在这,但挑战有时 似乎是不可克服的 你知道 |
| 293 | we are climbing Everest and can we see the peak and and whatever else and | 我们正在攀登珠穆朗玛峰 能看到峰顶和其他什么 |
| 294 | you've been doing this almost your whole life and on the one hand you're so | 你几乎一辈子都在做这件事 一方面你是如此 |
| 295 | engaged and mad as hell and like totally in it but at the same time you | 订婚和疯狂的地狱 喜欢完全在里面,但同时你 |
| 296 | have this amazing kind of sense of patience and this amazing kind of aerial | 有这种惊人的耐心感 和这种惊人的空中 |
| 297 | view of it somehow and I'm well I you know I I don't want to make us patient | 不知怎的,我很好 你知道我不想让我们有耐心 |
| 298 | okay but but I do think okay here's here's what I think at the moment that | 好吧,但我确实觉得好吧 这就是我现在的想法 |
| 299 | the marks and angles were really nice guys okay but they made one big mistake | 标记和角度是非常好的人 好吧,但他们犯了一个大错误 |
| 300 | I think which is to say that the end justifies the means in fact the means | 我认为,这就是说,目的证明,实际上,手段是正当的。 |
| 301 | are the ends that the means create the ends that we're going to get so if we | 是手段创造的终点 如果我们 |
| 302 | want humor and love and good food and dancing at the end not that there's an | 想要幽默和爱 和良好的食物和舞蹈 最终不是有一个 |
| 303 | end but you know what I mean at the end right then we want humor and food and | 结束,但你知道我的意思 在结尾,然后我们想要幽默和食物, |
| 304 | good dancing along the way otherwise we won't have it then so and will burn out | 一路跳得好,不然我们不会有它,这样就烧焦了 |
| 305 | on the way so I mean I'm not saying I'm a model of doing this but I do think | 在路上,所以我的意思是 我不是说我是一个模型 这样做,但我确实认为 |
| 306 | that the the process the friendship the craziness the ahas you know when you | 过程的友谊 疯狂的疯狂 当你知道 |
| 307 | suddenly realize something the sense that you're doing what you love that you | 突然意识到你正在做自己所爱的事 |
| 308 | forget what time it is when you're doing it you love it so much that you just | 忘记你做的时候是什么时间 你爱它这么多,你只是 |
| 309 | just just keep going is the most moving to me and when I see people at the end | 继续走就是对我最感动 当我看到最后的人 |
| 310 | their lives or the end of their rope and they pick themselves up and they go on | 他们的生命或绳索的尽头, 他们拾起自己,他们继续 |
| 311 | it just makes me cry you know it is so it's so miraculous and it's so much what | 它只是让我哭 你知道它是如此的神奇, 它是如此的多 |
| 312 | we need to do it does make me cry would you say that's like that's like a Gloria | 我们需要这样做,确实让我哭了 你会说,那就像一个Gloria |
| 313 | kind of mantra in a way just never never never never never give up yes absolutely | 从某种意义上说 永远永远不要放弃 |
| 314 | and dance a little dancing is good I want to ask you about porn I want to ask | 跳个小舞很好 我想问你关于色情片的事 我想问你 |
| 315 | you we had a really interesting email exchange recently very recently about | 最近我们有个很有趣的邮件交换 |
| 316 | the difference between pornography and erotica and one of the most interesting | 色情和色情的区别 最有意思的 |
| 317 | things that you explained to me was actually the etymology of both of those | 你向我解释的其实是这两个人的病理 |
| 318 | words and that the clues or the one and the answers I think are within the | 和线索 或一个 和答案 我认为在 |
| 319 | definitions of those two words and so you say that pornography has this Greek | 这两个词的定义 所以你说色情有这个希腊语 |
| 320 | root which means female captive or harlot akin to the word meaning to sell | 根指女性俘虏或妓院女妓 类似于要卖的词 |
| 321 | and graphos which is writing about or the description of and erotica is a word | 书写或描述色情和色情的石刻 |
| 322 | that you think sort of can begin to change save lives and it comes from the | 你认为这是某种 可以开始改变 拯救生命 它来自 |
| 323 | Greek root sexual desire or passionate love so two very different two very | 希腊根的性欲或热情的爱 所以两个非常不同的两个非常 |
| 324 | different meanings there do you think that when you speak out against | 不同的意义,你认为 当你大声反对 |
| 325 | pornography people mistake that as you being sort of like anti sex or anti | 色情制品的人误解了 你有点像反性或反性 |
| 326 | not if I know what sex is you know I mean as I always say to audiences of men | 如果我知道什么是性,你知道我的意思 正如我常对男人的观众说的 |
| 327 | you know cooperation beats domination trust me you know sir no I look I think | 你知道合作胜过统治者 信任我,先生 不,我想 |
| 328 | we are so inundated by pornography that that what I learned from us talking to | 我们被色情制品淹没 以至于我从我们谈话中学到的 |
| 329 | each other yeah is just how prevalent it is so prevalent that you almost we can't | 对方是那么普遍 你几乎不能 |
| 330 | imagine anything else and it presents itself as sex so the other my best | 想象其他的一切 它呈现自己为性 所以另一个我最好的 |
| 331 | analogy for this is where we started with rape those of us who are older here | 以此为例,我们从强奸开始... ...我们这些年长的人 |
| 332 | will remember that rape was considered to be inevitable it was considered | 将记住强奸被认为是不可避免的 |
| 333 | really to be only possible if a woman was a virgin it was what men said to | 只有当女人是处女时 男人才会这么说 |
| 334 | women about it was oh you're supposed to lie back and enjoy it I mean that you | 女人关于它,哦,你应该躺回去享受它 我的意思是你 |
| 335 | know there was really no differentiation of rape from sex and we have spent a lot | 我们花了很多钱 |
| 336 | of time and I think with a fair amount of success explaining that rape is not | 时间和我认为相当成功 解释强奸不是 |
| 337 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}性是暴力 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}我也不知道30年 | |
| 338 | get that conceptually across to most folks it does not mean that rape does | 从概念上说到大多数人 这并不意味着强奸 |
| 339 | not happen obviously but it means we condemn it instead of blaming it on the | 很明显,但这意味着我们谴责它而不是责备它 |
| 340 | victim and saying what did you have on you invited it you know all the things | 受害者,说你有什么 你邀请它,你知道所有的事情 |
| 341 | that happened before all right I fear that if we let if we don't begin to | 之前发生的一切,我担心 如果我们允许,如果我们不开始 |
| 342 | differentiate pornography from erotica violence from from pleasure that that it | 将色情制品与色情暴力区分开来 |
| 343 | will it will seem it will win because it will encompass all of sex and you know | 因为它会包括所有的性,你知道 |
| 344 | so I will see what happens and each of you here you know think what you feel | 所以我会看看会发生什么 你们每个人都知道你的感受 |
| 345 | about this but I find it helpful to at least have a word for sex that is mutual | 但我觉得至少应该用一个 相互的性词 |
| 346 | and pleasurable and not about domination and pain and violence and humiliation and | 而不是关于统治、痛苦、暴力、侮辱 |
| 347 | so on and I think we kind of know when we look even at representations of sex | 所以,我想我们有点知道 当我们甚至看 性的表现 |
| 348 | whether both people want to be there or whether you know it's all about the | 不管是两人都想去 还是你知道一切 |
| 349 | role dominating and power differences and you know it I really do worry we both | 角色主宰和力量差异,你知道的 我真的担心我们俩 |
| 350 | this was the end of our discussion we're both worried about the envelopment of | 这是我们讨论的结束 我们都很担心 |
| 351 | the earth and pornographic images because of the web and just young people | 地球和色情图像 因为网络和年轻人 |
| 352 | especially I mean the the right wing on the one hand right wing just in a | 特别是右翼的右翼 右翼的右翼 |
| 353 | way is pressing sex education and allowing or profiteering off pornography | 方式是强迫性教育 允许或牟取色情 |
| 354 | so young people look at pornography and thinks that's it that that's what it's | 年轻人看色情片,认为这就是它是什么 |
| 355 | supposed to be I don't know the answer but I I was hoping that maybe having a | 应该是我不知道答案 但我希望也许能有一个 |
| 356 | word which at least at least maybe there are other words at least some different | 至少有其他词 至少有些不同 |
| 357 | for for shared mutual pleasurable empathetic sex real real you know | 对于共同的欢乐 爱恋 真实的,你知道 |
| 358 | pleasurable sex would help us to do something about erotica because I mean | 愉快的性爱会帮助我们 做一些关于色情的东西,因为我的意思 |
| 359 | about pornography because now there's just no other word really if all words | 关于色情 因为现在没有别的词了 如果所有的话 |
| 360 | welcome here if you have some other ideas it's interesting because while I | 欢迎来到这里 如果你有其他想法 这很有趣 因为当我 |
| 361 | was able to definitely differentiate or understood rape to be an act of | 强奸确实可以区分或理解为强奸行为。 |
| 362 | violence not just another kind of sex that sometimes happens it was difficult | 暴力不只是有时发生的另一种性爱 很难 |
| 363 | for me to imagine I just sort of thought that it was inevitable part of culture | 让我想象一下 我只是觉得这是文化不可避免的一部分 |
| 364 | and society that it was just something that was going to happen and having done | 社会,它只是一些事情 将要发生和已经做了 |
| 365 | you know there are cultures that exist in the world where it just doesn't | 你知道世界上有些文化是不存在的 |
| 366 | happen where it's just not a statistic and I know that you've done a lot of | 发生的地方,它只是不是一个统计 我知道你已经做了很多 |
| 367 | studies of these other cultures and these other ways of setting things up | 研究这些其它文化以及这些其它设置方法 |
| 368 | where that doesn't happen but I have to say hearing you speak as well at the | 我不得不说,听到你说话也好 |
| 369 | same time it's difficult for me to imagine a world where pornography | 同时 我很难想象一个色情的世界 |
| 370 | doesn't exist I think it's well I just seem not it's so I don't know it's maybe | 不存在,我想它很好 我只是看起来不是,所以我不知道 也许 |
| 371 | not existing is a long way off but having an alternative yes well that's | 不存在是很远的路 但有一个选择是好的 |
| 372 | that I definitely think is possible we should be creating lots of awesome | 我肯定认为是有可能的 我们应该创造出很多真棒 |
| 373 | great alternatives to pornography you know I think about the say the Native | 色情作品的绝佳替代物,你知道的,我想到一句 |
| 374 | American cultures on my land get my North America and some of the other | 我土地上的美国文化 得到我的北美和其他一些 |
| 375 | oldest cultures in Africa and in India and so on I mean the whole idea of | 在非洲和印度等地最古老的文化 我指的是 |
| 376 | sexuality was really very different you know I've been I started to read | 性生活真的很不一样 你知道我开始读书了 |
| 377 | Christopher Columbus's letters you want to read about a bad guy because he | 克里斯托弗・哥伦布的信 你读到一个坏人 因为他 |
| 378 | arrived and and was so it was writing down you know how wonderful and | 来到了这里,所以它 写下来,你知道有多美妙, |
| 379 | welcoming everyone was and how gentle and how they offered food and so on and | 欢迎每个人, 多么温柔, 他们如何提供食物等等 |
| 380 | then he took he took some of the women sex slaves for his crew and he was | 然后他带走了一些女性性奴隶 为他的船员,他是 |
| 381 | shocked that they fought back he could not understand you know the next | 震惊他们还击 他无法理解你知道接下来 |
| 382 | Columbus day I'm going to put a big sign in Columbus Circle in New York says | 哥伦布日我会在纽约的哥伦布圆圈上贴个大标语 |
| 383 | murderer but they're where where there were cultures where women controlled | 杀人犯,但他们是 在那里有文化 女人控制 |
| 384 | their own reproduction and with herbs and abortifacients and timing and so on | 他们自己的繁殖 草药 流产药 时机等等 |
| 385 | and there was there were there in the old cultures there mainly seemed not to | 在旧文化中 似乎没有 |
| 386 | be even gendered pronouns not even he and she people were people what a | 甚至是性别代词 连他和她是什么样的人 |
| 387 | concept and it was about a circle as a paradigm not a hierarchy so it's not | 概念和它是一个圆形的范式 而不是等级,所以它不是 |
| 388 | it's not I just say that because we otherwise think it's human nature you | 我不是说,因为我们认为这是人性 |
| 389 | know to dominance and hierarchy it's not it's actually rather new in human | 要知道统治和等级 并不是人类的新生 |
| 390 | history at least there were alternatives before we don't know exactly but at | 历史至少有其他选择 在我们不知道确切的,但是在 |
| 391 | were huge cultures that functioned on the idea that we are all linked we are | 伟大的文化 以我们彼此相连的观点运作 |
| 392 | not ranked I wanted to go back to your book for a minute because one of my | 没有排名,我想回到你的书 一分钟,因为我的一个 |
| 393 | favorite things about the book was opening the first page and seeing the | 书里最喜欢的就是打开第一页,看到 |
| 394 | dedication that you made and when you're sharing such kind of intimate and | 你所做的奉献 当你分享这种亲密和 |
| 395 | experiences from your own life does it ever take you a minute to think wow do I | 你一生的经历... ...你是否需要一分钟来思考... |
| 396 | really want to share this do I really want to make this public do you ever how | 我真的想分享这个 我真的想公开这个 |
| 397 | does that what how does that mental process in real life in real life it | 现实生活中的心理过程是如何形成的 |
| 398 | took me from from when I was a new college graduate here working in an | 把我从新毕业的大学里带走 |
| 399 | espresso and Mayfair as a waitress realizing I was pregnant because I had | 咖啡和梅法尔作为一个服务员 意识到我怀孕 因为我有 |
| 400 | broken an engagement at home and I was on my way to a fellowship in India okay | 我当时正要去印度参加奖学金会 |
| 401 | that was 1957 it took me from then to 1972 when we published a petition from | 那是1957年 从那时到1972年 我们发表了一份请愿书 |
| 402 | women who had had abortions in Miss magazine saying we have had abortions we | 在"小姐"杂志上说我们堕胎过的女人 |
| 403 | know the decriminalization of it so that's a long time I mean I didn't talk | 我早就不说话了 |
| 404 | about it for a long time either but I hope it's much easier now for I and I | 很久了,但我希望现在对我和 |
| 405 | think it's important that we tell the truth that's how we find out what's | 认为我们必须说出真相 才能找出真相 |
| 406 | happening in the world to all of us one in three women in this country and one | 发生在世界上的 我们所有人 这个国家每三个女人中就有一个 |
| 407 | in three women in my country has needed an abortion at some time in her life so | 在我国的3名妇女中,有一段时间需要堕胎,所以 |
| 408 | you know why are we being silent about it and in a odd way my coming back now | 你知道为什么我们对此保持沉默吗 奇怪的是我现在回来了 |
| 409 | is kind of saying thank you to this country which was slightly less crazy | 也算是向这个 稍稍不疯狂的国家致谢 |
| 410 | than my country and so I was able to find a doctor here who was a wonderful | 比我的国家,所以我在这里找到了一个医生 一个伟大的医生 |
| 411 | man who took a huge risk of his own profession and who said you know you | 冒着职业风险说认识你的人 |
| 412 | still had to have two people to physician signing as you do though I | 还需要两个人签个名 和你一样 |
| 413 | know you're trying to change that but the conditions under which they could | 你知道你试图改变这一点 但条件 他们可以 |
| 414 | sign were way way more stringent so he said he would take this huge risk if I | 签字要严格得多 所以他说要是我 |
| 415 | promised him two things one I would never tell anyone his name and two I | 答应他两件事 一我永远不会告诉任何人他的名字 二我 |
| 416 | would do what I wanted to do with my life so I dedicated this book to him so | 我会做我想做的事 我的生活 所以我把这本书献给他 |
| 417 | I've come back a half century later to say thank you just still on that topic | 半个世纪后,我回来 说谢谢,只是你仍在这个话题上 |
| 418 | in terms of you know immunity to pain loss disease the toughness sometimes of | 就你而言,你对疼痛损失疾病的免疫力... ... |
| 419 | this world in general what have you found to be if it's not too personal your | 这个世界,你发现了什么 如果它不是太个人 你 |
| 420 | best defense coping mechanism what sort of kept you sane when challenges have | 最好的防御应对机制 是什么让你保持正常 当挑战有 |
| 421 | seemed friends I mean you know we're we're communal animals we need each | 像朋友,我是说,你知道我们是公社动物,我们需要每个人 |
| 422 | other if we're by ourselves we come to feel crazy or wrong and what what is the | 其它的,如果我们独自一人... ...我们来感到疯狂或错误... ...什么是什么 |
| 423 | source of all change or part the mechanism of all beginning of change is | 所有变化的源头或部分变化的开始机制是: |
| 424 | small groups of people supporting each other I mean in the Chinese Revolution | 一小撮人互相支持,我是说在中国革命中 |
| 425 | it was called speaking bitterness groups in the civil rights movement in my | 在我的民权运动中 被称为说苦话的团体 |
| 426 | country it was in the southern churches speaking truth about racism in the | 在南方的教会里 说出种族主义的真相 |
| 427 | women's movement it was people and is women actually they used to call them CR | 女人的运动,是人,是女人 实际上她们曾经叫她们CR |
| 428 | groups and rap groups now they call them book clubs really I know I really so | 团体和说唱团体 现在他们称他们为书友会 我真的知道 |
| 429 | it's that you know it is the ability to say what's troubling you to tell your | 就是你知道,这是 能够说出什么 困扰你告诉你的 |
| 430 | bad experience find out you're not alone other people so I mean you know that's | 糟糕的经验 发现你不是孤独的其他人 所以我想你知道 |
| 431 | it we haven't been sitting around a campfire for millennia millennia for | 几千年来 我们一直没有坐在营火周围 |
| 432 | nothing we need to be together tell stories see what's common if they're | 我们不需要在一起 讲故事 看什么是常见的 |
| 433 | common problems they're probably political otherwise it wouldn't be | 共同的问题,他们可能是政治的,否则就不会是 |
| 434 | you talk about the importance of bearing witness to somebody else's pain or loss | 你谈论证明别人的痛苦或损失的重要性 |
| 435 | or suffering and I was really moved by that as well I think I remember when I | 或受苦受难,我真的很感动 我还记得当我 |
| 436 | was younger feeling very panicked when someone was emotional suffering having a | 年轻时感觉非常惊慌 有人在感情上痛苦 |
| 437 | really hard time because I thought that my role was to find a way to fix it as | 很难过 因为我认为我的角色是 找到一个方法来修复它 |
| 438 | quickly as possible or to try to get them to stop crying as quickly as | 或尽量让他们停止哭泣 |
| 439 | possibly how what can I do to help and this would give me this sort of panicky | 可能我能帮上什么忙 这会让我感到恐慌 |
| 440 | feeling because often I didn't have answers and then one day when I came to | 感觉因为我常常没有答案 然后有一天我来到 |
| 441 | the realization that oftentimes the kindest and most meaningful and | 常是最亲切和最有意义的 |
| 442 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}我唯一能做的就是 亲眼目睹别人 | |
| 443 | moment not even necessarily touching them hugging them giving them tissues | 瞬间甚至不一定要碰他们 拥抱他们给他们的组织 |
| 444 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}在水里做这些事 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}我以前喜欢在水里拍拖 | |
| 445 | and actually just to sit and be comfortable with listening to someone | 其实只是坐着听别人说话 |
| 446 | else in these difficult moments and it really set set me free in that way and | 在困难的时刻 它让我如此自由 |
| 447 | and I think I hope helped me be a better friend by just being not | 我希望能帮助我成为更好的朋友 而不是 |
| 448 | uncomfortable around being with someone else in a really tough space or or place | 感觉很不舒服 和别人在一起 在一个非常艰难的空间或地方 |
| 449 | I thought you described that really well sounds to me like you do it really well | 我还以为你形容的很好 听起来你做的很好 |
| 450 | thank you well I hope so it's it means a lot to me when people sit and listen to | 谢谢你,我希望当人们坐着听的时候 这对我很重要 |
| 451 | me when I'm on one of my you know having one of those days one of one of those I | 当我在我的其中之一 你知道有 有一天,我有一个 |
| 452 | Rebecca Traster最近为纽约写了篇文章 | |
| 453 | and she argues that single women or unmarried women are now arguably the | 她辩称,单身妇女或未婚妇女现在可以说是: |
| 454 | most powerful voting group this year in this in this presidential election and | 今年这次总统选举中最有权力的投票团体 |
| 455 | you know I'm I'm interested there have been times in my life when I felt I just | 你知道,我很感兴趣 在我的生命中,有几次,我感觉 |
| 456 | don't know enough I don't know enough about these potential candidates and I | 我对这些潜在的候选人了解不够,我 |
| 457 | you know and will it make that much difference and you know I've really I | 你知道,如果它会 产生很大变化 你知道我真的 |
| 458 | don't know enough to feel like I can make a decision and with the media being | 并不知道足够的感觉 我可以做一个决定 随着媒体 |
| 459 | the way that it is I'm really interested what do you think is the most empowering | и痷砍届 谋眔程Τ琌ぐ或 |
| 460 | way that a young person can find out information and make a decision about | 如何让年轻人找到信息 并做出决定 |
| 461 | who about you know a candidate that they would want to support and if they feel | 你们中谁认识一个他们想支持的候选人,如果他们觉得 |
| 462 | that there isn't someone that they really want to support it do you have how | 没有一个他们真的想支持的人 你有办法 |
| 463 | would you offer advice around around that when I have Trump in my country | 当我在我国有特朗普的时候 你会提供建议吗? |
| 464 | saying I'm so sorry I would say that it's entertaining but it's yeah it's | 说我很抱歉,我会说 它的娱乐,但它是的 |
| 465 | too dangerous because he's a brand you know so people know his name and they | 他太危险了,因为他是个牌子,你知道 所以人们知道他的名字,他们 |
| 466 | think because he has a lot of money that he's smart and and and he | 想想因为他有很多钱 他很聪明 而且他 |
| 467 | actually when people are asked why they support him they do say because he's a | 事实上,当人们被问到为什么支持他时 他们确实说,因为他是一个 |
| 468 | successful businessman so I would just like to say that he is not a successful | 生意成功,所以我想说他不成功 |
| 469 | businessman he is a successful con man it's very different if somebody figured | 商人,他是一个成功的骗子 如果有人想到,这是非常不同的 |
| 470 | out that he had just taken the money that he in the money that he inherited | 他刚刚拿走了他继承的钱 |
| 471 | and invested it he would be better off than he is now because he's gone | 并投资了它 他会比现在更好 因为他已经走了 |
| 472 | bankrupt and he's you know inflicted his debt on other people and so on so you | 他破产了,你知道 他欠别人钱,所以你 |
| 473 | know we have lots of political problems but I think we have to understand that | 我知道我们有很多政治问题 但我想我们必须明白 |
| 474 | the one place on earth where the least powerful equals the most powerful is the | 地球上最弱者等于最强者的地方是 |
| 475 | voting booth it is not the most we can do but it is the least we can do and you | 投票亭不是我们所能做的最多 而是我们和你所能做的最少 |
| 476 | know there's really we just need to invest some time in finding out from | 知道我们真的需要花点时间去查查 |
| 477 | trusted sources you know what the issues are and understand that it's that things | 可靠的消息来源你知道 问题是什么 并且明白这是事情 |
| 478 | don't change overnight you know they're not magic solutions but what is | 不要一夜之间改变 你知道他们不是神奇的解决方案 但是什么 |
| 479 | practically possible to move forward and trust your instinct you know I mean you | 几乎可以向前走 相信你的直觉 你知道我的意思是你 |
| 480 | know authenticity when you see it probably you know that it's so valuable | 当你看到它的时候 你知道它的价值 |
| 481 | don't fail to trust yourself not voting is a way of voting so you know use it | 不要不相信自己 不投票是投票方式 所以你知道用它 |
| 482 | and move forward here's my best thing about instinct if it walks like a duck | 如果直觉像鸭子一样行走的话 我最擅长的是前进 |
| 483 | and looks like a duck and quacks like a duck and you think it's a pig it's a pig | 长得像鸭子,像鸭子,你以为是猪,是猪 |
| 484 | the most compelling one this is honest this is one of my favorite chapters in | 最有说服力的是诚实 这是我最喜欢的章节之一 |
| 485 | your book was when you recounted your experiences of you know working on | 你的书是当你讲述 你的经验 你知道工作 |
| 486 | various different campaigns and and you know on the campaign trail and what | 各种不同的运动,你知道 在运动的线索和什么 |
| 487 | that was like but I loved for the want of a nail the shoe was lost for the one | 这就像,但我喜欢的 缺一钉 鞋丢失了为之一 |
| 488 | of the shoe the horse was lost for the wonderful yeah for the wonderful rider | 鞋子上的马被迷路了 美妙的骑手 |
| 489 | the battle was lost and for the want of a battle the kingdom was lost and all | 这场战役失败了 为了争夺一场战役的希望 |
| 490 | for the want of a horseshoe nail and it just kind of and and you know when you | 因为想要一个马蹄钉 它只是那种,你知道当你 |
| 491 | talked about how close the election between Al Gore and and Bush was and you | 讨论过阿尔·戈尔和布什 和你的选举有多接近 |
| 492 | know it came down to it really came down to a horseshoe is now it really yeah I | 知道它降下来,真的降到马蹄 是现在,真的是的,我 |
| 493 | really did I won't put you through the whole thing but the it starts with about | 我真的不会让你经历整个事情 但从一开始 |
| 494 | two or three thousand votes in Missouri and Harriet Woods who was running for | 密苏里州和哈丽特·伍兹的两到三千张选票 谁在竞选 |
| 495 | the Senate there who lost because of a lack of money purely because she couldn't | 因为没钱而败诉的元老院 |
| 496 | answer charges at the last minute and because of that the senator who was | 在最后一刻回答指控,因为当时的参议员 |
| 497 | re-elected took Clarence Thomas with him to Washington because Clarence Thomas | 由于克拉伦斯·托马斯 改选克拉伦斯·托马斯 |
| 498 | was there he was visible as a rare conservative African-American | 在那里,他是一个罕见的保守 非裔美国人 |
| 499 | conservative willing to go against his own community and that you know he's he | 保守派愿意反对他自己的社区 你知道他就是他 |
| 500 | successfully gets on to the Supreme Court and because the single vote that | 成功进入最高法院 并且因为单票 |
| 501 | stops the recount in the election of Gore and Bush and elects Bush and | 在戈尔和布什的选举中停止计票,选举布什和 |
| 502 | because of that we have a war in Iraq we have you know two wars in Afghanistan we | 因为在伊拉克有一场战争,你知道在阿富汗有两场战争 |
| 503 | have a bigger division of wealth more prisons than I mean you know it's it's | 拥有更大的财富分工 更多的监狱 比我的意思是你知道这是 |
| 504 | in there it's you know like this and it's all true so for want of the nail | 里面是你知道的... ... ...... |
| 505 | you end up with three wars and and the most polarized rich poor situation we've | 最后你又发动了三场战争 和我们最两极化的穷富处境 |
| 506 | had in our country almost since the depression as well as giving federal | 几乎自萧条以来就在我国 |
| 507 | money to religious groups which he did based on on just presidential privilege | 他根据总统的特权 给宗教团体的钱 |
| 508 | and it's like a vote delivery system you know so it began to take over the | 这就像一个投票系统 你知道,所以它开始接管 |
| 509 | Republican Party and it just you know started with a few thousand votes so I | 共和党和它只是你知道 从几千票开始 所以我 |
| 510 | put that in there because I think it's one of those things you learn over time | 把它放在那里,因为我认为这是 你学到的东西之一 一段时间 |
| 511 | and and I know I mean you know the equivalence here that I don't know but | и笵笵иぃ笵 |
| 512 | it's it's crucial it's crucial just a few votes can make a huge difference and I | 关键是... 关键是... 只要几票就能产生巨大影响... |
| 513 | remember in my country when Richard Nixon invented the idea and publicized | 记得在我国,当理查德·尼克松 发明了这个想法并宣传 |
| 514 | politics is dirty your vote doesn't count he was just trying to suppress the | 政治是肮脏的 你投的票不算他只是想压制 |
| 515 | vote because he knew he couldn't win on a good voter turnout I found you talking | 投票,因为他知道 他不能赢得一个良好的投票率 我发现你说话 |
| 516 | about trusting your instincts and how important your vote was what a massive | 相信你的直觉 以及你的投票有多重要 |
| 517 | massive massive difference it could make to the turn of history and historical | 在历史和历史的转折中 |
| 518 | events and yeah just the way that you put it so eloquently I found it very | 事情,是的,只是的方式 你这么说如此雄辩 我发现它非常 |
| 519 | empowering and persuasive so I'm sure there are great examples here we should | 赋予权力和说服力 所以我相信这里有一些伟大的例子 我们应该 |
| 520 | all start trading our examples because I think it's one way that we can inspire | 都开始交换我们的例子,因为我认为这是我们可以激励的方法之一 |
| 521 | each other's activism I want to move to you as a writer and and some of your | 彼此的主动主义,我想搬到你 作为一个作家和一些你的 |
| 522 | some of your books some of your other books you wrote one called revolution | 有些你的书 有些其他的书 你写的一本叫革命 |
| 523 | from within which is about self-esteem and I wanted to know why you thought | 从里面谈自尊 我想知道你为什么认为 |
| 524 | this topic and and self-esteem was kind of the key to revolution and and the key | 这个话题和自尊 是革命的关键和关键 |
| 525 | to the key to so many things well it partly it was because wandering around | 这么多事情的钥匙 部分是因为四处游荡 |
| 526 | my country and other countries I just saw such valuable incredible women | 我的国家和其它国家,我刚刚看到 如此宝贵的不可思议的女人 |
| 527 | especially some men too who who were great and didn't think they were great | 特别是一些男人,谁是伟大的, 不认为他们是伟大的 |
| 528 | you know and so I started to look for books that I could that would be helpful | 你知道 所以我开始找书 我可以帮助 |
| 529 | and I I could find books that were external about activism and books that | 我能找到关于行动主义的外部书籍 和书 |
| 530 | were internal about self-esteem but not that connected one to the other you know | 内在的自尊,但不是 连接到另一个你知道的 |
| 531 | that you value yourself and your and your actions in your opinion and find | 在你看来,你珍惜自己和你的行动 |
| 532 | other people's you know that it's a it's a circle so I decided I had to write it | 别人的你知道这是一个圈子 所以我决定必须写 |
| 533 | myself it was a big revelation for me or a big waking up for me that it was very | 对我本人来说是个大启示 对我而言是个大醒悟 |
| 534 | profitable for me to feel really bad about myself as a woman very profitable | 对我而言,当一个女人 对自己感到很不好是赚钱的 |
| 535 | indeed and once I started to sort of once this idea had started to once I'd | 的确,一旦我开始排序 一旦这个想法开始一次,我会 |
| 536 | really come to understand this idea I was able to really shut down a lot of | 真正开始理解这个想法 我能够真正关闭了很多 |
| 537 | explain explain what you mean by profitable I mean that gosh you just | 解释一下,你的意思是盈利 我的意思是,天哪,你只是 |
| 538 | feeling terrible about yourself makes you want to go and change yourself in | 感觉自己很糟 让你想去改变自己 |
| 539 | some way that you aren't okay as you are you aren't acceptable as you are that in | 某種方式,你不是很好,你是你 不被接受,因为你是在 |
| 540 | {\fn黑体\fs20\shad2\2aH82\3aH20\4aH33\fscx95\3cH592001\be1}你不会像现在这样 | |
| 541 | this requires improvement change and quite serious and and quite serious | 这需要改进,需要相当认真和严肃的 |
| 542 | quite quite big changes often and I think you know that's been very | 变化很大,我想你知道 |
| 543 | empowering because I never I I was I think I hadn't connected to these ideas | 赋予我权力,因为我从来没有,我是 我想我没有联系到这些想法 |
| 544 | and I was as you say without friends sort of alone thinking to myself gosh | 我就像你说的 没有朋友一样 独自在想着自己 |
| 545 | this is just me I'm just this way it must be you know this must just be a | 我就是这样,你应该知道 这一定是个 |
| 546 | problem with me and then you start talking to other women about how they | 我出问题了 然后你开始跟其他女人谈论她们是如何 |
| 547 | feel about themselves and it's like a five-hour conversation it's like a it's | 感觉自己,就像一个5小时的对话,就像一个 |
| 548 | like I hate everything kind of a moment a lot a lot of the time I mean I can't | 就像我恨一切 那种时刻 很多时候,我的意思是我不能 |
| 549 | generalize obviously it's not the case across the board but I was disturbed by | 很明显这不是一个大问题 但我对 |
| 550 | how long I could continue a conversation with most women about | 我可以跟大多数女人谈多久 |
| 551 | things they didn't like about themselves or their appearances this was this was | 他们不喜欢的东西 对自己或他们的外表 这是这个 |
| 552 | troubling to me this was very troubling to me so I've lost where I was going | 这让我很不安 所以我失去了去的地方 |
| 553 | with this I'm answering your question I'm answering your question okay fine no | 我回答你的问题 我回答你的问题 |
| 554 | no no you're absolutely right and and the as long as the fault can be located | 不,不,不,你绝对是对的 只要能找到断层 |
| 555 | in the powerless person they will stay powerless because they're blaming | 在无力的人,他们会保持无力 因为他们责备 |
| 556 | themselves yeah so there are whole industries you know devoted to making | 是的,所以有 整个行业你知道 致力于制造 |
| 557 | women feel if they just look different had breast implants plants fix their | 女人觉得如果她们看起来不一样 乳房植入植物会修补 |
| 558 | noses right to making people of color feel if they were just not as dark | 鼻子可以让有色人种感觉 如果他们不是那么黑暗 |
| 559 | skinned or if they just straightened it I mean hello you know it's and it's all | 脱光了,或者说他们刚弄好... ...我是说你好... ...你知道的... |
| 560 | around us and it is it is huge and it is difficult and we had a 12 year old | 在我们身边,这是巨大的,这是困难的, 我们有一个12岁 |
| 561 | explained to me the other day that she was getting fat I was like you're just | 那天我跟她解释说她越来越胖了 就像你只是 |
| 562 | going through puberty do you get to give yourself any kind of you know of a break | 度过青春期,你会给自己 任何一种你知道的休息 |
| 563 | here I mean it at that made I was emotional after that position I really | 我意思是,在那个职位之后 我变得很情绪化 |
| 564 | know we need to I think we're worried about our time over here are we going | 知道我们需要,我想我们担心 我们的时间在这里,我们要去 |
| 565 | on too oh we want group questions oh no I have to I have to okay I have to ask | 哦,哦,我们想要集体问题 哦,不,我必须... ... |
| 566 | questions from my book club because well back to back to this you know just a | 我书社的提问 因为回到这个... 你知道... |
| 567 | minute on our subject I do think that there are some things that help sports | 关于我们的主题,我确实认为有些事情 有助于运动 |
| 568 | help because sports tell women especially that our bodies are not just | 帮助,因为体育告诉女人 特别是我们的身体不仅仅是 |
| 569 | ornaments they are instruments you know they're meant to do things hello yeah | 装饰品是乐器,你知道的 他们注定做一些事情,你好,是啊 |
| 570 | and and going to I wrote a whole thing once about going to my first health club | 我写了一整篇关于去我的第一个健康俱乐部 |
| 571 | ever because there was looking at women's bodies in the steam room and I | 因为蒸汽机房里有女人的尸体 我 |
| 572 | realized that each body on its own made total sense without the ridiculous | 每一个身体都完全有意义 没有荒谬 |
| 573 | little broad that referred to some other ideal you know one woman looked | 说到其他理想的小女人 你知道有一个女人看起来 |
| 574 | like a Buddha somebody else look at you know and the and the the scars from | 像菩萨一样 别人看着你 和那些伤疤 |
| 575 | caesareans were like warrior scars you know it's it's it's hard because there's | 剖腹产就像战士的伤疤 你知道这是很难的 因为有 |
| 576 | a big effort to keep us from rebelling and there's a lot of money to be made | 为了阻止我们造反 付出了很大努力 还有很多钱要赚 |
| 577 | but I hope that each of us men and women can go home and look in the mirror and | 但我希望我们每个人都能回家 照照镜子 |
| 578 | say yes this is banfucking-tastic | 说对了,这他妈的是禁忌 |
| 579 | I want to ask you one more question that's connected to this and then I'm | 我想再问你一个问题 这与此有关 然后我 |
| 580 | gonna and then I'm gonna move on to the other ones but so as a feminist when you | 然后,我会继续去 其他的,但作为一个女权主义者 当你 |
| 581 | get ready in the morning and you put yourself together there's a kind of | 明早准备好,你把自己放在一起... ... |
| 582 | misconception I think that in order to be a feminist you know there were like | 我认为,为了成为一名女权主义者,你知道,有一样 |
| 583 | all of these invisible rules which mean that you know you shouldn't you can't | 这些无形的规则 意味着你知道你不应该 |
| 584 | wear heels or you can't wear makeup or you know body hair no body hair I mean | 穿高跟鞋,或不能化妆 或你知道身体的头发 没有身体的头发 我的意思是 |
| 585 | I'm gonna I have an answer as well but I'm interested when you put yourself | 我也会有答案的,但如果你把你自己放在这,我很感兴趣 |
| 586 | together what kind of things do you what what do you think about well I used to | 在一起,什么样的事情 你在想什么好,我过去 |
| 587 | anything I could do in 20 minutes was okay and over time I've developed a kind | 20分钟内我所能做的一切都好 随着时间的推移 我发展了一种 |
| 588 | of uniform you know which is black pants some kind of top some weird belt that you | 穿着制服的黑裤子 上面有些奇怪的腰带 |
| 589 | can so but I I think that body decoration is a human impulse and and | 也可以 但我认为身体装饰是人类的冲动 |
| 590 | men as well as women if you have you ever seen the Omo people in the valley | 男人和女人 如果你见过山谷里的奥莫人 |
| 591 | {\fn黑体\fs20\shad2\2aH82\3aH20\4aH33\fscx95\3cH592001\be1}非洲之间 | |
| 592 | these people who women and men boys and girls decorate themselves every day you | 这些女人和男人 男孩和女孩每天装饰自己 |
| 593 | know with natural clay and paints and flowers it's beautiful there's nothing | 自然黏土 油漆和花朵 美丽无比 |
| 594 | wrong with body decoration it's beautiful but the question is why can't | 身体装饰有问题 很漂亮 但问题是 为什么不能 |
| 595 | men do it and why do women have to do it you know why can't we do it with joy | 男人做,为什么女人必须做 你知道为什么我们不能快乐地做 |
| 596 | and imagination so far as it's a choice and it feel and it makes you feel good | 和想象力,因为它是一个选择, 它的感觉,它让你感觉好 |
| 597 | and you feel empowered I don't think there can be any rules so our shared | 你感到自己被赋予了力量 我认为没有任何规则 所以我们共享 |
| 598 | shelf my book club Maria wants to know in your opinion how has feminism changed | 玛利亚想知道女性主义 是如何改变的 |
| 599 | in the digital age now that women from all over the world can be informed and | 在数字时代,来自世界各地的妇女能够了解情况, |
| 600 | empowered through the internet has the balance for equality shifted in any way | 通过互联网赋予权力,平等平衡以任何方式改变 |
| 601 | well you know it's obviously great that we can get information and safety in the | 你知道这显然是伟大的 我们可以得到的信息和安全在 |
| 602 | safety of our homes, that we can find each other, that we can find each other, that we | 安全我们的家园, 我们可以找到对方, 我们可以找到对方, |
| 603 | can find each other, that we can find each other, that we can find each other, that we | 可以找到彼此,可以找到彼此,可以找到彼此 |
| 604 | It's also obviously true that it's not the same as meeting. | 这显然也与会议不同. |
| 605 | You know, you're not empathizing with all five senses. | 尔时不思议一切五种觉. |
| 606 | And pressing send is not activism, okay? | 催促发送不是活动,好吗? |
| 607 | It's also true that it is divisive and polarizing | 这也是事实 分裂和两极化 |
| 608 | because the huge majority of illiterates in this country, in this world, are female. | 因为这个国家,在这个世界上, 绝大多数的文盲都是女性。 |
| 609 | And many, many, many millions of women do not have electricity, | 许多,许多,数百万妇女没有电, |
| 610 | do not have money for a computer. | 没有钱买电脑。 |
| 611 | So it can be divisive and we must be aware of that. | 因此,它可能分裂,我们必须意识到这一点。 |
| 612 | Here's my dream for technology. | 这是我的科技梦想 |
| 613 | I think that we should have a big satellite in the sky, | 我认为我们应该有一个大卫星 在天空, |
| 614 | broadcasting in all kinds of different languages. | 以各种不同语言广播。 |
| 615 | And there should be, you know, those wind-up radios | 应该有,你知道,那些收音机 |
| 616 | that you don't even need electricity for, you know? | 你甚至不需要电,你知道吗? |
| 617 | So each woman on the ground can get a program in her own language. | 这样,每个地面上的女人都可以用自己的语言获得一个程序. |
| 618 | I mean, I just think technology is wonderful, but let's democratize it. | 我的意思是,我只是认为 技术是美妙的, 但让我们民主化它。 |
| 619 | Let's try to spread it as widely as we can. | 试以广宣. |
| 620 | And there is also the opposite end of it, | 还有相反的结局, |
| 621 | which is that females on the web get a lot more punishment, | 网上的雌性受到更多的惩罚 |
| 622 | a lot more harassment, a lot more cruelty, a lot more threats. | 更多骚扰 更多残忍 更多威胁 |
| 623 | And, you know, we have to understand, too, | 而且,你知道,我们必须理解,太, |
| 624 | that in the absence of five senses, we're able to be more cruel to each other | 在没有五种感官的情况下,我们可以对彼此更加残忍 |
| 625 | than we are when we're actually present. | 而不是我们实际在场的时候 |
| 626 | What do you say to people who believe that feminism is just about hatred of men? | 你对相信女性主义只是仇恨男人的人怎么说? |
| 627 | And that's from Raphael, who's in... | 这是来自拉斐尔,谁在... |
| 628 | Well, I could send them to the dictionary. | 我可以把它们送到词典上 |
| 629 | There you go. | 给你。 |
| 630 | That's good. | 这是很好的。 |
| 631 | Men are feminists, too. | 男人也是女权主义者 |
| 632 | It's why we chose the word. | 故选字. |
| 633 | I kind of liked women's liberationist as a word, | 我有点喜欢女人的解放主义者 作为一个词, |
| 634 | but feminist we chose because men could be feminists, too. | 但我们选择了女权主义者 因为男人也可能是女权主义者 |
| 635 | Do you have any role models? | 你有榜样吗? |
| 636 | And if so, who are they and why? | 如果是这样,他们是谁,为什么? |
| 637 | And that's from Romina. | 这是罗米娜送的 |
| 638 | Oh, there's so many. | 哦,有这么多。 |
| 639 | There's so many. | 有这么多。 |
| 640 | When you say that, I think of Wilma Mankiller, | 当你这么说时 我想到威尔玛·曼基勒 |
| 641 | the chief of the Cherokee Nation, | 切罗基族首领, |
| 642 | who should have been president of the United States in any fair situation. | 在任何公平的情况下 他都应该是美国总统 |
| 643 | Amazing woman who knew how to create independence, not dependence. | 神奇的女人谁知道 如何创造独立,而不是依赖。 |
| 644 | Incredible gift. | 不可思议的天赋。 |
| 645 | Alice Walker, I think is... | 爱丽丝·沃克 我觉得... |
| 646 | I always think of her as a head of me on the path. | 我总是把她当做我在路上的头 |
| 647 | She's a book fool. | 她是一个书呆子。 |
| 648 | Yes, she's number two on your book club, and I'm so grateful. | 是的,她在你的书社里排行第二 我很感谢你 |
| 649 | I mean, how great is it that I'm there and Alice Walker is there? | 我在那里和爱丽丝·沃克在那里有多棒? |
| 650 | And is that not... | 难道不是... |
| 651 | We didn't know, we didn't lobby, we didn't do anything. | 我们不知道,我们没有游说,我们什么也没做. |
| 652 | We're so honoured and to be chosen, | 我们是如此的荣幸和被选中, |
| 653 | so I'm just totally knocked out with this, right? | 所以,我只是 完全打晕了这一点,对不对? |
| 654 | No, that's... Oh, that's craziness. | 不,这是... 哦,这是疯狂。 |
| 655 | This is us getting to be here and still being able to talk to you, | 这就是我们在这里 仍然可以和你说话, |
| 656 | who wrote these things that mean so much to us, | 写这些东西对我们很重要 |
| 657 | is remarkable and a complete gift. | 非常了不起 也是一份完整的礼物 |
| 658 | So it's really our honour. | 所以,这真的是我们的荣誉。 |
| 659 | I want to try and get a few more questions in because they'll be mad at me otherwise. | 我想多问几个问题 否则他们会生我的气 |
| 660 | Oh, this is an interesting one. | 哦,这是一个有趣的。 |
| 661 | Does she believe, do you believe, that the word feminism should change to humanism? | 她相信,你相信,女性主义这个词应该改变为人文主义吗? |
| 662 | Would it be easier for men to embrace feminism if the changing the word | 如果换个字,男人会更容易接受女性主义吗? |
| 663 | made it sound like equality for all, not just women? | 让这听起来像人人平等, 不只是女人? |
| 664 | And that's from Jayce. | 这是杰斯寄来的 |
| 665 | Well, once I went to a lecture I was doing at a big kind of amphitheatre in Texas, | 当我去德克萨斯州一个大型两栖剧院的讲座时 |
| 666 | and there were people outside with big placards saying, | 外面有人拿着大牌子说 |
| 667 | Gloria Steinem是一位人文主义者 我想,哦,多好 | |
| 668 | I was ignorant of the tradition of the word humanist, | 我对人文主义的传统一无所知 |
| 669 | which means you don't believe in God, which, you know, they were very pissed off. | 这意味着你不相信上帝, 他们非常生气。 |
| 670 | Is that what it really means? | 这真的意味着什么吗? |
| 671 | Yeah, I mean, well, I'm generalising, | 是啊,我的意思是,嗯,我在概括, |
| 672 | but if you go home or you look and you're, you know, that's what it means, yeah, | 但是,如果你回家或你看着 你,你知道,这就是它的意思,是的, |
| 673 | that you believe in human beings. | 你相信人类。 |
| 674 | I'm completely exposing my ignorance here. | 我完全暴露了这里的无知。 |
| 675 | I had thought that it meant that humanism is sort of like, | 我以为这意味着 人文主义有点像, |
| 676 | you believe in equality for all humans. | 你相信所有人类的平等 |
| 677 | No, I'm so wrong. | 不,我错了。 |
| 678 | I mean, the meanings change over time, but that's not the origin of it. | 意思随时间而改变,但这不是它的起源. |
| 679 | I think that's what it's sort of come to mean, | 我想这就是它的意思, |
| 680 | even though I don't think that clearly it's not the actual definition of it. | 虽然我不认为那显然不是它的实际定义. |
| 681 | Well, you know, first of all, we should be able to choose our own word. | 嗯,你知道,首先, 我们应该能够选择 我们自己的字。 |
| 682 | If you don't want to say feminism, fine. | 如果你不想说女性主义,很好。 |
| 683 | Women's liberationist, womanism, | 妇女解放主义者、妇女主义、 |
| 684 | mujerista, if you're Spanish, girls. | 姑娘们,如果你们是西班牙人 |
| 685 | I love girls with two or three R's. | 我喜欢两三个R的女孩。 |
| 686 | So it's the content that matters, not the word. | 所以,内容才是重要的,而不是这个词. |
| 687 | Some people say equalist. | 有人说平等者. |
| 688 | That's another word. | 这是另一个词。 |
| 689 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 690 | Oh, OK. | 哦,没事。 |
| 691 | That's so hard. | 这太难了。 |
| 692 | There's so many good ones. | 诸有善根. |
| 693 | OK. | 摆 |
| 694 | I would love, Michelle is saying that she would love to hear you talk more | 米歇尔说她很想听你多说话 |
| 695 | about the Houston National Women's Conference. | 关于休斯顿全国妇女会议。 |
| 696 | Do you believe something like this could happen again? | 你相信这种事会再次发生吗? |
| 697 | And if it were held today, do you think, | 如果今天举行 你觉得呢 |
| 698 | how do you think the conference would be different from what it was like in 1977? | 你觉得这个会议 与1977年有什么不同吗? |
| 699 | How have the issues changed since then? | 自那时以来,问题是如何变化的? |
| 700 | You know, this, I don't want to go on about this | 你知道,这个,我不想继续 |
| 701 | because probably most people in my country don't know about it much less, | 因为可能大部分人 在我国不知道这一点, |
| 702 | but it was a two-year process in which in every state and territory, | 但它是一个两年的过程 在每一个州和地区, |
| 703 | delegates were elected and issues were selected by huge numbers of people. | 许多人选出了代表,选择了问题。 |
| 704 | I mean, in the capital of New York State, there were 2,000 people just there. | 我的意思是,在纽约州的首都, 有2000人在那里。 |
| 705 | And it also, because of its guidelines, | 而且,由于它的指引, |
| 706 | was maybe the only racially, economically, ethnically representative meeting | 也许是唯一一次种族、经济、族裔代表会议 |
| 707 | I've ever seen in my country. | 国中所见. |
| 708 | And we decided then those delegates voted on a programme that we all agreed on. | 我们当时决定,这些代表就我们都同意的方案进行表决。 |
| 709 | And so it caused us to unify around, yes, anti-lesbian sentiments or feminist issue, | 因此,它促使我们团结 围绕,是的, 反列士主义情绪或女权主义问题, |
| 710 | or around reproductive rights and abortion, which were still controversial then. | 或围绕着生殖权利和堕胎,这在当时仍然是有争议的。 |
| 711 | So it was like writing a constitutional convention for women. | 所以这就像写一个宪法会议 妇女。 |
| 712 | So I describe it in the book and there are other books completely devoted to it | 所以我在书里描述 还有其他的书 完全致力于它 |
| 713 | if you want to look at it and see whether you think that this would be useful in some way. | 如果你想看看,看看你是否认为这在某种程度上是有用的。 |
| 714 | What are possible solutions to a misogynistic media? | 对厌恶女性的媒体有哪些可能的解决办法? |
| 715 | How can average citizens and voters either change flawed mass media | 普通公民和选民如何改变有缺陷的大众媒体? |
| 716 | or simply be sure they are receiving reliable news | 或者只是确定他们收到可靠的消息 |
| 717 | and information free of biased and destructive misogyny? | 和没有偏见和破坏性厌恶女性的信息? |
| 718 | And that's from Amy. | 这是艾米送的 |
| 719 | Well, I think this is on the agenda of your new women's party, is it not? | 我想这是你新妇女党的议程 不是吗? |
| 720 | Changing the media? | 改变媒体? |
| 721 | And lots of other violence, everything, you know, great. | 还有很多其它的暴力,一切,你知道的,伟大的。 |
| 722 | Thank you, thank you. | 谢谢,谢谢。 |
| 723 | Thank you very much, I appreciate that. | 非常感谢,我很感激。 |
| 724 | Do you want to repeat what she said? | 你想重复她说的话吗? |
| 725 | Sorry? | 你说什么? |
| 726 | Oh, no, no, do you want to repeat what? | 哦,不,不,你想重复什么? |
| 727 | Oh, she was just saying that she has more information for me if I'd like it. | 哦,她只是说 她有更多的信息给我,如果我想。 |
| 728 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 729 | So, you know, there are lots of existing groups devoted to this | 所以,你知道,有很多 现有的团体致力于这个 |
| 730 | and we can find the Women's Media Centre in my country, | 我们可以在我国找到妇女媒体中心, |
| 731 | we started precisely to do this because we realised that we had had | 我们刚开始这样做 是因为我们意识到 |
| 732 | and continue to have a women's health movement. | 并继续开展妇女健康运动。 |
| 733 | We didn't have a women's media movement, you know. | 我们没有妇女媒体运动,你知道的。 |
| 734 | So, it's very important, we have our own media now more than we did before, | 所以,这是非常重要的, 我们有自己的媒体 现在比我们以前, |
| 735 | obviously, but the advertising supported big media. | 显然,但广告支持大媒体。 |
| 736 | The ownership of the media is very restricted to five big corporations | 媒体的所有权仅限于五家大公司 |
| 737 | around the world, hello, and also the ad content. | 世界各地,你好,还有广告内容 |
| 738 | So, I think there are any number of ways we can protest to individuals, | 因此,我认为有 任何方法 我们可以抗议个人, |
| 739 | we can boycott the products that are advertised and, you know, | 我们可以抵制那些广告上的产品,你知道, |
| 740 | and we can hook into the women's party, to the women's media centre, | 我们可以加入女人的派对 和女人的媒体中心 |
| 741 | to any group we know that's working on the media | 给任何我们认识的 从事媒体工作的团体 |
| 742 | and understand it's really important because it's possible for the media | 并理解它真的很重要,因为 这是可能的媒体 |
| 743 | to make you feel that it is right and you are wrong. | 让你觉得这是对的 你错了 |
| 744 | It's amazing. | 不可思议. |
| 745 | You know, so we need a more realistic media. | 我们需要一个更现实的媒体 |
| 746 | I'll ask you one more quick question | 我再问你一个问题 |
| 747 | and we're going to ask questions from the audience, | 我们要问观众的问题, |
| 748 | but Sarah says, any ideas on how to teach our sons equality? | 但莎拉说,有什么想法 如何教我们的儿子平等? |
| 749 | My youngest is seven, they split sports into separate sexes this year. | 我最小的七岁,他们今年把运动分成不同的性别。 |
| 750 | I'm not sure how to explain to him why. | 我不知道该怎么向他解释原因 |
| 751 | Well, I think it's how we treat our boys, you know, | 我想这就是我们如何对待我们的孩子,你知道, |
| 752 | we don't say to them, don't cry or be tough or whatever. | 我们不告诉他们, 不要哭,或强硬或什么的。 |
| 753 | You know, we kind of try to let them be who they are. | 你知道,我们试图让他们成为他们。 |
| 754 | It's wonderful for boys to take care of littler children, | 对男孩来说照顾小孩是件好事 |
| 755 | it makes them feel grown up and there's a wonderful, | 让他们觉得自己长大了 并且有一个美好的, |
| 756 | there's a great project in New York called Oh Boy Babies. | 纽约有个伟大的项目叫"孩子" |
| 757 | Sixth grade little boys took care of babies in childcare centres | 六年级男孩在儿童保育中心照顾婴儿 |
| 758 | and at first they said they were kind of, they pee and you know, | 一开始他们说他们有点小便,你知道, |
| 759 | but then of course they just said babies are interesting, | 但当然,他们只是说 婴儿很有趣, |
| 760 | you know, they were interested and also it made them feel grown up | 你知道,他们很感兴趣 也让他们觉得长大了 |
| 761 | and the program got its name because they would say, | 程序得到了它的名字,因为他们会说, |
| 762 | you know, whenever the two days a week came up, oh boy, babies. | 你知道,每当每周的两天, 哦,孩子。 |
| 763 | So in a general way, I think women girls become whole people | 所以,从总体上来说,我认为 女性女孩成为了整个人 |
| 764 | by venturing out into what is wrongly called masculine and isn't | 向被错误地称为男性,而不是 |
| 765 | and boys stay whole people by venturing out into, you know, | 男孩们通过冒险进入 整个人,你知道, |
| 766 | what is wrongly called feminine and isn't | 被误称为女性,不是 |
| 767 | and then we get to be whole people. | 然后我们就成了整个人 |
| 768 | Okay, questions from everyone? | 好了,大家的问题? |
| 769 | Answers, answers. | 答问答问. |
| 770 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 771 | Organising announcement. | 组织发布. |
| 772 | Yes. | 对 |
| 773 | Thank you very much, that was just so inspiring and so energising. | 非常感谢,那只是 如此鼓舞人心,如此充满活力。 |
| 774 | I work with refugee women in the UK and first of all, | 我为英国的难民妇女工作 首先 |
| 775 | moving on from what you said about the importance of activism, | 从你所说的 行动的重要性, |
| 776 | I'd like to invite you both and everybody here to a gathering | 我想邀请你们和大家参加聚会 |
| 777 | we're having on International Women's Day right out there | 我们正在参加国际妇女节 |
| 778 | outside the home office at one o'clock to stand up for women | 晚上一点钟在办公室外面 站出来支持女人 |
| 779 | who cross borders and need safety particularly in the current refugee crisis | 在目前难民危机中需要安全的人 |
| 780 | and Gloria, can you say something about your experiences | 格洛丽亚 你能谈谈你的经历吗 |
| 781 | of building solidarity across borders, borders of nations, | 建设跨越国界、国家边界的团结, |
| 782 | races, classes, genders? | 种族,阶级,性别? |
| 783 | Thanks very much. | 非常感谢 |
| 784 | You know, I realise that, you know, obviously the refugee question | 你知道,我知道,你知道, 很明显,难民问题 |
| 785 | is huge now, right? | 现在很大,对吧? |
| 786 | But also I think because of the particular nature of some refugees' movements, | 但我也认为,由于一些难民流动的特殊性质, |
| 787 | we have come to think that refugees in general around the world | 我们开始认为 世界各地的难民 |
| 788 | are more male than they are when actually it's 90% women and children, refugees. | 男人比他们多 实际上90%的妇女和儿童,难民。 |
| 789 | So, you know, we need to remember that. | 所以,你知道,我们需要记住这一点。 |
| 790 | And as for working together, do we know each other | 至于合作,我们认识吗? |
| 791 | is the first question I think. | 我想这是第一个问题 |
| 792 | In New York there was an African-American women's group | 在纽约有一个非裔美国人的妇女团体 |
| 793 | very big and important and a Jewish women's group very big and important. | 非常大和重要 一个犹太妇女团体非常大和重要 |
| 794 | They were trying to do things together and it never happened, right? | 他们试图一起做一些事情 而事情从来没有发生,对不对? |
| 795 | So they called up a friend of mine who was a feminist conflict resolution expert | 所以他们打电话给我的一个朋友 他是女权主义冲突解决专家 |
| 796 | which she became out of running two women's centres, okay? | 她从两个女子中心里跑出来,好吗? |
| 797 | So she became a conflict resolution. | 于是她成为了冲突解决方案. |
| 798 | And they called her in as a consultant and she said, | 他们叫她做顾问 她说 |
| 799 | well, do your presidents know each other? | 你们的总统认识吗? |
| 800 | And they said, well, no, not really. | 他们说,嗯,不,不是真的。 |
| 801 | She said, tell them to have lunch together, you know, | 她说叫他们一起吃午饭 |
| 802 | every week for a while and it will work and it did. | 每星期有一段时间 它会工作,它做到了。 |
| 803 | I mean, who do we know? | 我是说,我们认识谁? |
| 804 | Who do we trust? | 我们相信谁? |
| 805 | Nothing replaces trust. | 没有任何东西能取代信任。 |
| 806 | Who do we go to the movies with? | 我们跟谁去看电影? |
| 807 | It's the bell hooks rule. | 钟钩法则. |
| 808 | If you buy shoes together, you can do politics together. | 如果一起买鞋,就可以一起做政治. |
| 809 | So I would say that's the first question that all of us can answer. | 所以我想说,这是我们所有人都能回答的第一个问题。 |
| 810 | Who are our friends? | 我们的朋友是谁? |
| 811 | Do we have friends different from us? | 我们有不同的朋友吗? |
| 812 | And if not, why not? | 如果不是,为什么不呢? |
| 813 | We're not learning if we're learning. | 我们不是在学习,如果我们在学习。 |
| 814 | We don't learn so much from sameness. | 我们从同性学得不多. |
| 815 | Another question. | 另一个问题。 |
| 816 | Hi, I'm Lisa from Germany and I just want to go back to a topic | 嗨,我是德国的丽莎 我只想回到一个话题 |
| 817 | that you mentioned before briefly which is very interesting | 你刚才简短地提到,这很有趣 |
| 818 | and which I plan to do research on, and that is female sexuality. | 我计划研究女性性行为 |
| 819 | And I think that, in my opinion, | 我认为,我认为, |
| 820 | that this is sort of a key to equality on its own. | 这是平等的关键 |
| 821 | And I just want to ask your opinion about this | 我只想问你关于这件事的看法 |
| 822 | because I think it's not just about pornography. | 因为我认为这不仅仅是色情 |
| 823 | It's also about women understanding their own sexuality | 还有女人了解自己的性爱 |
| 824 | and being, well, strong about it in their opinion, their feeling. | 在他们的看法和感觉中 都非常坚强 |
| 825 | And also women's magazines, you know, | 还有女性杂志,你知道, |
| 826 | are writing about how to best please him. | 写着如何取悦他 |
| 827 | It's all about men and not about women. | 皆是男子而无女人. |
| 828 | And I just want to ask your opinion about how this is a key in equality. | 我只是想问你的意见 如何这是平等的关键。 |
| 829 | No, it is the key. | 不,这是关键。 |
| 830 | It is a key because how we got in this jam in the first place | 这是一个关键,因为我们是如何 进入这个果酱 首先 |
| 831 | of patriarchy and other bullshit, you know, | 父权制和其他废话,你知道, |
| 832 | is because of trying to control reproduction. | 因为试图控制生殖。 |
| 833 | And that meant controlling women's bodies. | 这意味着控制妇女的身体。 |
| 834 | And that meant pleasure was... | 这意味着快乐是... |
| 835 | That animated individual women was dangerous. | 那部动画片对女性来说是危险的 |
| 836 | So we got everything from restriction in, you know, | 所以,我们得到了一切 从限制英寸 |
| 837 | in rooms to female genital mutilation to telling us, | 在房间 切割女性生殖器官告诉我们, |
| 838 | to Freud telling us that there was a kind of orgasm | 佛洛伊德告诉我们 有一种高潮 |
| 839 | that did not physiologically exist. | 这在生理上并不存在。 |
| 840 | My name is Jude Kelly. | 我叫朱德·凯利 |
| 841 | I started the WOW Festival here. | 我在这里举办了WOW节 |
| 842 | And this will be its sixth year. | 这将是它的第六年。 |
| 843 | And the Women's Equality Party was born from that last year. | 而女性平等党则从去年诞生. |
| 844 | Two years ago, I started a festival called BAM! | 两年前,我开始了一个叫BAM的节日! |
| 845 | Being a Man. | 作为一个男人。 |
| 846 | And this is the root of my question, | 这就是我问题的根源 |
| 847 | that if women's consciousness-raising, | 如果女性的觉悟, |
| 848 | which has been going formally for a hundred years, | 它已经正式进行了一百年, |
| 849 | a lot longer, forever really, | 很久,永远真的 |
| 850 | but men's consciousness-raising is a very new territory. | 但男人的觉悟 是一个非常新的领域。 |
| 851 | And my worry is that if this is the third wave of feminism, | 我担心如果这是第三波女性主义 |
| 852 | then it could also ebb as much as it's flowing at the moment. | 这样它也可以像现在一样膨胀 |
| 853 | And unless male consciousness-raising gets included in male agenda, | 除非男性意识的提高 被纳入男性议程, |
| 854 | then I fear that we will ebb again. | 我怕我们再失败 |
| 855 | And that's my question, really. | 这就是我的问题 真的 |
| 856 | Do you think that this is true? | 你认为这是真的吗? |
| 857 | Do you think there's more we can do about that? | 你觉得我们能做的更多吗? |
| 858 | And of course, that can't just be women urging men forward. | 当然,这不能只是 女人敦促男人前进。 |
| 859 | There's got to be men coming forward. | 一定有男人来 |
| 860 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 861 | There is, I think, in both our countries, | 我认为,在我们两国, |
| 862 | there is a fairly substantial men's movement of men saying, | 有相当实质性的男子运动 男人说, |
| 863 | wait a minute, I'm not going to be limited to this dehumanised masculine role. | 等等,我不会被限制 在这个非人性化的男性角色。 |
| 864 | And meeting together in order to support each other | 相聚相济 |
| 865 | in this defiance of a masculine role, which is not easy, | 在这种对男性角色的蔑视中,这是不容易的, |
| 866 | and also to support women. | 还支持妇女。 |
| 867 | There's men's groups working against violence against women, too. | 也有男子团体致力于反对对妇女的暴力行为. |
| 868 | So, you know, thank you for making that visible | 所以,你知道,谢谢你 使这个明显 |
| 869 | and thank you for your support again. | 再次感谢你的支持 |
| 870 | And yes, absolutely. | 当然 |
| 871 | I think it's why we started, why I wanted to start with the UN, | 我想这就是为什么我们开始,为什么我想从联合国开始, |
| 872 | was to start HeForShe, was to create a conversation that felt inclusive. | 开始HeForShe, 创建一种对话 感觉包容。 |
| 873 | I think feminism becoming synonymous with man-hating | 我认为女权主义 成为仇恨男人的同义词 |
| 874 | is really damaging and really... | 真的很伤人,真的... |
| 875 | it's just incorrect. | 这是不正确的。 |
| 876 | So I think the more we talk about that, | 所以,我想我们谈论的越多, |
| 877 | the more that we try and open up a space in which... | 我们越想打开一个... |
| 878 | I mean, it's really wonderful to see men in this room. | 我的意思是,这是真的 美妙的看到男人在这个房间。 |
| 879 | And thank you for coming. | 谢谢你能来 |
| 880 | And actually, we have endless research about how, | 事实上,我们有无休止的研究 关于如何, |
| 881 | if you eliminate from the statistics as to why men die, | 如果你从统计中排除 男人为什么死亡, |
| 882 | the things most associated with the masculine role | 最与男性角色有关的东西 |
| 883 | of violence and speeding and tension related to it, | 与暴力、超速和紧张有关, |
| 884 | you live four or five years longer. | 你活了四、五年 |
| 885 | I mean, what other movement can offer you? | 我的意思是,还有什么其他运动可以给你? |
| 886 | And, you know, to see men with their children | 和,你知道, 看到男人与孩子 |
| 887 | really being loving and caring towards their children | 真正爱和照顾他们的孩子 |
| 888 | is just a gift to everyone. | 只是送给大家的礼物 |
| 889 | I owe my father, too, | 我也欠我父亲 |
| 890 | because he was a wonderful, loving, patient man, | 因为他是一个美妙, 爱,耐心的人, |
| 891 | and therefore he's personally responsible for the fact | 因此他要亲自负责 |
| 892 | that I am still friends with all my old lovers, | 我仍然是我所有的旧情人的朋友, |
| 893 | because they were nice people. | 因为他们是好人。 |
| 894 | Well, maybe there was a little bit of a difference | 也许有一点不同 |
| 895 | in one or two words. | 一两句 |
| 896 | I'm Rosie Boycott, and Gloria and I started Spare Rib | 我是罗西·博科特 我和格洛丽亚开始了节食 |
| 897 | around the time that Gloria started Ms. | 葛洛丽亚开始的时候 |
| 898 | Hi, Gloria. | 嗨,格洛里亚。 |
| 899 | Where are you? | 你们在哪? |
| 900 | No, what strikes me as very scary nowadays | 不,是什么让我现在很恐怖 |
| 901 | is that my partner, Marsha, and I started a magazine, | 那是我搭档玛莎和我创办的杂志 |
| 902 | as you started Ms. | 你开始的时候,小姐。 |
| 903 | We set out with the aim to try to change everything. | 我们的目标是改变一切。 |
| 904 | And the worst that happened to us | 而发生在我们身上的最糟糕的事情 |
| 905 | was that we were told we were silly. | 有人说我们很傻 |
| 906 | I mean, that was really it. | 我的意思是,这是真的。 |
| 907 | We were silly, and we would fail. | 我们很傻,我们会失败的 |
| 908 | You come forward 40-odd years, | 你提前40年来 |
| 909 | and Caroline Triade Perez, | 还有卡罗琳·特里亚德·佩雷斯 |
| 910 | whom I'm sure lots of people in this room know of, | 我确信这房间里很多人都知道 |
| 911 | she went out and she said, | 她出去说, |
| 912 | why isn't there a woman on a banknote? | 钞票上为什么没有女人? |
| 913 | Which seems to me a much less kind of offence against man | 在我看来,这对男人的冒犯要少得多 |
| 914 | than what we tried to do. | 而不是我们试图做的。 |
| 915 | The result for her was death threats, | 对她的结果是死亡威胁, |
| 916 | police protection, | 警察保护, |
| 917 | tweets and messages and emails | 推文、信件和电子邮件 |
| 918 | that were of such vileness and perversion and violence to her. | 对她来说是邪恶 变态和暴力 |
| 919 | And it scares me now that actually | 现在吓到我了 |
| 920 | it's like one's awoken the monster. | 这就像一个醒来的怪物。 |
| 921 | And in fact, you hear stuff about women being enslaved in this society. | 事实上,你听到一些关于 妇女在这个社会中被奴役的东西。 |
| 922 | It's got much, much, much more ugly. | 其形多,多,更丑恶. |
| 923 | Is that something you've found in the States? | 这是你在美国发现的吗? |
| 924 | And also, what do you think about that? | 还有,你觉得怎么样? |
| 925 | Well, it's true that there seem to be stages of resistance. | 嗯,这是真的,似乎有 阶段抵抗。 |
| 926 | You know, when the first woman who does something gets resistance | 你知道,当第一个做事情的女人 受到抵制 |
| 927 | but she's there and then it's OK until it gets to be about a third. | 但她在那里,然后一切都会好起来的 直到它得到大约三分之一。 |
| 928 | And then, you know, it's like they're saying | 然后,你知道, 这就像他们说 |
| 929 | there goes the neighbourhood or something, you know, | 邻里什么的,你知道, |
| 930 | that they're worried that we're going to be 50-50 | 他们担心我们会是50 -50 |
| 931 | and there's a new stage of resistance. | 并有一个新的阶段的抵抗。 |
| 932 | And now that there is the web | 现在有了网络 |
| 933 | where people can be hateful without names and without penalty, | 在那里人们可以憎恨 没有名字和惩罚, |
| 934 | this is reflected. | 这已反映出来。 |
| 935 | So, it's not that the danger isn't real, it is, | 所以,这不是说 危险不是真实的,它是, |
| 936 | but it is a part of progress. | 但这是进步的一部分。 |
| 937 | It just is, you know, and we have to look after each other | 只是,你知道, 我们必须照顾对方 |
| 938 | and be aware and reach out to people, | 你应当知道,你应当与众人接触, |
| 939 | men who can help and point it out and know that it's wrong. | 男人谁可以帮助和指出 它知道这是错的。 |
| 940 | But we can't stop. | 但我们不能停止。 |
| 941 | I mean, we can't let it frighten us into stopping. | 我们不能让它吓到我们停下来 |
| 942 | We're just trying to find remedies, you know, | 我们只是想找到治疗方法 |
| 943 | find ways of dealing with legal threats on the web | 寻找应对网上法律威胁的方法; |
| 944 | that is a whole new area of the law, for instance, | 这是一个全新的法律领域,例如, |
| 945 | and stalking on the web and so on. | 和网络跟踪等等。 |
| 946 | And we need to tell each other and protect each other, | 我们需要告诉对方 保护对方 |
| 947 | but we're not going to stop. | 但我们不会停止。 |
| 948 | I'd like to speak as a supportive man to feminism, | 我想说作为一个支持女性主义的人, |
| 949 | also a disabled person. | 残疾人。 |
| 950 | So, in a way, that fighting another oppression | 因此,在某种程度上,与另一种压迫作斗争 |
| 951 | makes one see the links between the different oppressions. | 让人看到不同压迫之间的联系 |
| 952 | And I think that the real answer to feminism | 我认为女性主义的真正答案 |
| 953 | is that all men should become feminists, | 所有的男人都应该成为女权主义者, |
| 954 | because that's the only way that we're actually going to create a world. | 因为只有这样我们才能创造一个世界 |
| 955 | We can't do it with just women fighting for this | 我们不能让女人为这个而战 |
| 956 | because there's too many thousands of years of patriarchy, | 因为太过几千年的父权制, |
| 957 | but men have to realise that by being feminists | 但男人必须意识到, 通过做女权主义者 |
| 958 | and their relationships and the way they are, | 和他们的关系,以及他们的行为, |
| 959 | they're actually going to have a better life for themselves | 他们真的会过上更好的生活 |
| 960 | and for their children and for their partners. | 为他们的孩子和他们的伴侣。 |
| 961 | And I think that's the first thing I'd want to say. | 我想这是我想说的第一件事。 |
| 962 | The second thing is, everybody in this room | 第二件事是,在这个房间里的每一个人 |
| 963 | is going to be faced with a choice on the 23rd of June. | 将在6月23日面对一个选择。 |
| 964 | And politicians are deliberately trying to confuse people, | 政客们在故意混淆人们 |
| 965 | but if you see that the European Union stands for equality | 但如果你看到欧盟支持平等 |
| 966 | and those who argue against it don't want equality, | 而反对它的人不希望平等, |
| 967 | it's fairly clear where people need to be going. | 相当清楚人们需要去哪儿 |
| 968 | And the European Declaration of Human Rights | 和《欧洲人权公约》 |
| 969 | comes straight from the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, | 直接来自《世界人权宣言》, |
| 970 | and that's what a lot of people don't like. | 很多人不喜欢这样 |
| 971 | And if we don't maintain that bastion, | 如果我们不维持堡垒, |
| 972 | would you agree that we are on a downhill slope | 你能同意我们在下坡吗? |
| 973 | in this country against equality? | 在这个国家反对平等? |
| 974 | No, the women's rights in the European Union... | 不,欧盟的妇女权利... |
| 975 | Right, I agree. | 对,我同意 |
| 976 | This is not... | 这不是... |
| 977 | I'm not going to have to vote, right? | 我不用投票了 对吧? |
| 978 | But I hope and believe | 但我希望并相信 |
| 979 | that folks are not going to go backward, right? | 人们不会退后,对不对? |
| 980 | You said that if you looked like a duck and it felt like a pig, | 你说如果你看起来像一只鸭子 感觉就像一只猪 |
| 981 | then it was a pig, | 然后是头猪, |
| 982 | and therefore a no vote was just as important as a vote. | 因此,不表决与表决同样重要。 |
| 983 | I come from Australia where we have compulsory voting. | 我来自澳大利亚 我们在那里有强制投票。 |
| 984 | Do you think that by trying to figure out ways | 你认为通过尝试 找出方法 |
| 985 | to encourage more women to vote, | 鼓励更多的妇女投票, |
| 986 | we would therefore have a better representation | 因此,我们将有更好的代表性 |
| 987 | in power, in parliament, | 在掌权, 在议会, |
| 988 | and therefore make changes that way? | 故你应当这样修改。 |
| 989 | Yes, in every country that I'm aware of, | 是的,在每一个我知道的国家, |
| 990 | from India to my country to here, | 从印度到我国到这里 |
| 991 | there is a gender gap | 存在性别差距 |
| 992 | towards candidates, men too, | 对候选人,男人也是, |
| 993 | and women who represent the majority issues of women | 妇女作为多数问题的代表 |
| 994 | and represent equality. | 并代表着平等。 |
| 995 | And we need to create that gender gap and make it vocal. | 我们需要创造这种性别差距,并让它发出声音。 |
| 996 | And I think that's what the Women's Equality Party is doing | 我认为这就是 女性平等党正在做的 |
| 997 | and what we're trying to do. | 以及我们想要做的事 |
| 998 | You know, even if... | 你知道吗,即使... |
| 999 | It enunciates the issues, right? | 它说明了问题,对不对? |
| 1000 | Even if it's someone from another party who's going to... | 即使是另一个派对的人... |
| 1001 | It publicises the issues, it makes people know what is possible. | 它公开问题,让人们知道什么是可能的。 |
| 1002 | And we also do our best to do that. | 我们也尽力做到这一点。 |
| 1003 | And we tend to campaign outside the parties and outside campaigns | 我们往往在党外和外竞选 |
| 1004 | because actually social justice movements | 因为实际上社会正义运动 |
| 1005 | have more credibility than political parties. | 比政党更可信。 |
| 1006 | So... | 所以说... |
| 1007 | So it's very important, I think, to use that credibility. | 因此,我认为,使用这种信誉是非常重要的。 |
| 1008 | There's nothing more important than a trusted messenger. | 没有什么比信使更重要的了. |
| 1009 | I think we have to... | 我想我们必须... |
| 1010 | draw it to a close there. | 把它拉到一个关闭那里。 |
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