一场63.4亿美元劫案之后，CZ在牛津的19个回答意味着什么
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:04 | And without further ado, please welcome the President Gareth Lim and his guest, Mr. Chong Peng Chau. | 且不必再多言,请欢迎总统加雷思·林和其客人崇鹏洲先生. |
| 0:27 | I'm just going to sit in it for a bit. | 我只是要坐一会儿 |
| 0:29 | Just give me a second. | 只要给我一秒钟。 |
| 0:30 | Wow, okay, that's a lot of you. | 哇,好吧,这是很多你。 |
| 0:31 | So thank you so much everyone for coming. | 非常感谢大家的光临 |
| 0:34 | I'm sure we're all very, very excited. | 我敢肯定,我们都 非常,非常兴奋。 |
| 0:35 | What I'm going to do is I'm just going to do a quick | 我要做的就是快点 |
| 0:38 | flow of the events that are going to happen today. | 今天将要发生的事件。 |
| 0:40 | What's going to happen is it's going to be about 30 to 35 minute interview by myself. | 接下来会发生的,是 大约30到35分钟的采访 我自己。 |
| 0:45 | If possible, I'm always happy to cut short the interview and afterwards, | 如果可能的话,我总是很高兴 缩短面试,然后, |
展开字幕全文（839 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | And without further ado, please welcome the President Gareth Lim and his guest, Mr. Chong Peng Chau. | 且不必再多言,请欢迎总统加雷思·林和其客人崇鹏洲先生. |
| 2 | I'm just going to sit in it for a bit. | 我只是要坐一会儿 |
| 3 | Just give me a second. | 只要给我一秒钟。 |
| 4 | Wow, okay, that's a lot of you. | 哇,好吧,这是很多你。 |
| 5 | So thank you so much everyone for coming. | 非常感谢大家的光临 |
| 6 | I'm sure we're all very, very excited. | 我敢肯定,我们都 非常,非常兴奋。 |
| 7 | What I'm going to do is I'm just going to do a quick | 我要做的就是快点 |
| 8 | flow of the events that are going to happen today. | 今天将要发生的事件。 |
| 9 | What's going to happen is it's going to be about 30 to 35 minute interview by myself. | 接下来会发生的,是 大约30到35分钟的采访 我自己。 |
| 10 | If possible, I'm always happy to cut short the interview and afterwards, | 如果可能的话,我总是很高兴 缩短面试,然后, |
| 11 | we're going to go to audience questions for about half an hour. | 我们要去观众面前问 大约半小时。 |
| 12 | So very, very quickly as well, I always say this before every event, | 所以,非常,非常快, 也一样,我总是在每次活动之前说, |
| 13 | in terms of the questions that we ask, CZ has very, very kindly said that no particular questions | 就我们提出的问题而言,CZ非常非常客气地说,没有具体的问题。 |
| 14 | are off the table. | 已经不在了 |
| 15 | However, it would be best if you phrase these questions in a constructive | 然而,最好以建设性的方式阐述这些问题。 |
| 16 | and productive manner, right? | 和生产的方式,对不对? |
| 17 | So no questions are off the table, | 所以,没有问题了, |
| 18 | but they should be evidenced and an actual question rather than simply a statement. | 但是,它们应该被证明是一个实际问题,而不只是陈述。 |
| 19 | Great. | 不错 |
| 20 | So let's get to the interview for one more time, just a round of applause. | 所以,让我们再去采访一次, 只是一圈掌声。 |
| 21 | Thank you so much for coming. | 谢谢你能来 |
| 22 | All right, let's just get straight into it. | 好吧,让我们直接进入它。 |
| 23 | CZ, why are you at the Oxford Union today? | CZ,你今天为什么在牛津工会? |
| 24 | Well, first of all, thanks for having me. | 首先 谢谢你邀请我 |
| 25 | I'm really honored to be here. | 我很荣幸能来这 |
| 26 | I think the union is actually kind of a true source of freedom of | 我认为工会实际上是自由的真正来源 |
| 27 | speech. | 说话 |
| 28 | And we work in a slightly adjacent industry. | 我们在一个稍相邻的行业工作。 |
| 29 | I think my AI just can't turn on. | 我想我的人工智能不能打开 |
| 30 | So we're working in an adjacent industry that deals with the freedom of money, | 因此,我们是在 一个相邻的行业 处理钱的自由, |
| 31 | which is actually the name of the book. | 这其实是这本书的名字。 |
| 32 | So the freedom of speech is actually important, | 所以言论自由实际上很重要 |
| 33 | it's necessary, it's the foundational piece to have freedom of almost anything else. | 这是必要的, 这是基础的作品 拥有几乎所有其他东西的自由。 |
| 34 | So I think over the last few hundred years, our civilizations evolved from freedom of | 因此,我认为在过去的几百年里, 我们的文明 从自由 |
| 35 | physical freedom, like freedom from slavery, to freedom of speech, freedom of press, | 人身自由,如免于奴役、言论自由、新闻自由, |
| 36 | freedom of speech, freedom of information. | 言论自由、新闻自由。 |
| 37 | And now we're entering the freedom of intelligence, | 现在我们进入了智慧的自由 |
| 38 | potentially. | 有潜力 |
| 39 | Well, not potentially, I think most likely going to happen. | 嗯,没有潜力,我认为最有可能发生。 |
| 40 | And so I think | 所以我觉得 |
| 41 | it's an honor for me to be here to discuss it. | 我很荣幸能来这里讨论这件事 |
| 42 | And yeah, so this is the intersection of freedom. | 是的,这就是自由的交汇点。 |
| 43 | Thank you so much. | 非常感谢 |
| 44 | Now, enough small talk, let's get right to the elephant in the room. | 现在,足够小的谈话, 让我们得到正确的大象在房间里。 |
| 45 | So obviously, over the last couple of weeks, Binance has had a, let's say, security breach | 很明显 在过去的几个星期里 比南斯发生了安全漏洞 |
| 46 | in some way. | 在某种程度上。 |
| 47 | From your point of view, what would you like to say to the users of Binance, | 从你的观点,你想对宾南斯的用户说些什么, |
| 48 | to the members of the public here, to either reassure them or inform them of the strength | 告诉这里的公众 让他们放心或者告诉他们力量 |
| 49 | of Binance now and in the future? | 现在和将来? |
| 50 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 51 | Sure. | 当然 |
| 52 | Well, obviously, this is one of the largest | 很明显,这是最大的 |
| 53 | hacking instances in human history by dollar amount. | 黑客事件 人类历史 美元金额。 |
| 54 | So it's very significant. | 所以这是非常重要的。 |
| 55 | First of all, | 首先,我们... |
| 56 | I want to say there are a number of deficiencies on the Binance part. | 我想说,比南斯方面有一些缺陷。 |
| 57 | It's very clear. | 甚清净. |
| 58 | And this is | 这是 |
| 59 | preventable. | 可预防。 |
| 60 | Every hack, no matter how sophisticated it is, how long it took to get there, | 每一个黑客,无论它有多复杂, 多久才到达那里, |
| 61 | it's preventable. | 这是可预防的。 |
| 62 | There are multiple ways to prevent it. | 有多种方法可以防止它。 |
| 63 | So there are some shortfalls, | 因此,有一些不足, |
| 64 | there's some significant shortfalls on the Binance platform part. | Binance平台部分存在一些重大缺陷. |
| 65 | What they did do well | 他们做的很好 |
| 66 | is during the instant handling, the communication is very clear. | 在即时处理中,通信非常明确。 |
| 67 | Well, it's very transparent. | 嗯,这是非常透明的。 |
| 68 | It's real time. | 即时现身. |
| 69 | We're living in the real time age now. | 我们现在活在现实时代 |
| 70 | So everything unfolds on social media | 所以一切在社交媒体上展开 |
| 71 | and the blockchain is very transparent. | 而区块链非常透明。 |
| 72 | People see the transactions. | 人们看到交易。 |
| 73 | Third party actually | 第三方实际上 |
| 74 | analyze those transactions sometimes even faster than I could. | 分析这些交易有时甚至比我还快 |
| 75 | The most important part is | 最重要的内容是 |
| 76 | Binance is responsible enough to cover all the losses. | Binance对弥补所有损失负责。 |
| 77 | So that's a principle I set when I was | 所以,这是我设定的原则 当我是 |
| 78 | the CEO, the founder, and I'm just really proud that they followed that through here today. | 首席执行官,创始人, 我非常自豪 他们今天一直关注着这一点 |
| 79 | So from that perspective, no users got hurt. | 所以从这个角度看,没有用户受到伤害. |
| 80 | No user funds got impacted. | 没有用户资金受到影响。 |
| 81 | Binance absorbed the | 二进制吸收 |
| 82 | impact. | 影响。 |
| 83 | So from this perspective, it is safe. | 所以从这个角度看,它是安全的。 |
| 84 | It is secure. | 这是安全的。 |
| 85 | But there's a lot of work to do, | 但是还有许多工作要做 |
| 86 | especially now with AI coming up. | 特别是现在AI来了。 |
| 87 | Now, it used to be we see one or two hacks a year. | 以前我们每年都会看到一两个黑客 |
| 88 | And then it became like we see one or two hacks every week. | 然后我们每周都看到一两个黑客 |
| 89 | In the past week, we're seeing like | 在过去的一周里,我们看到 |
| 90 | three or four hacks on different crypto platforms every day. | 每天在不同的加密平台上三四个黑客. |
| 91 | And not just crypto platforms, banks | 不仅仅是密码平台,银行 |
| 92 | as well. | 临Τ |
| 93 | And actually, I can probably tell you that many banks are getting hacked, but we don't | 事实上,我也许可以告诉你,很多银行 被黑,但我们不 |
| 94 | know. | 知道吗? |
| 95 | They're not public about it. | 他们对此并不公开. |
| 96 | You will only hear about them six months later. | 六个月后你才会听说 |
| 97 | Whereas with | 而与 |
| 98 | the blockchain, at least you see what's happening. | 板链,至少你可以看到发生了什么。 |
| 99 | You see the $40 million leaving a Brazilian | 你看那四千万美元留下一个巴西人 |
| 100 | exchange today or yesterday. | 今天或昨天的交换 |
| 101 | So it's actually more transparent. | 所以它实际上更加透明。 |
| 102 | In the short term, it's going | 从短期来看,它会 |
| 103 | to hurt. | 伤害。 |
| 104 | There's going to be more of these kind of instances. | 还会有更多的这样的例子。 |
| 105 | But the truth is actually AI is | 但事实上 AI是 |
| 106 | actually making our systems safer, like it or not. | 实际上让我们的系统更安全, 喜欢与否。 |
| 107 | By uncovering all of these security issues, | 通过发现所有这些安全问题, |
| 108 | we can now fix them. | 我们现在可以修好它们了。 |
| 109 | In the short term, it's a double-edged sword. | 短期内为双刃剑. |
| 110 | But long term, | 但从长远来看, |
| 111 | I strongly believe that AI is actually going to make our systems much safer. | 我坚信AI会让我们的系统更加安全 |
| 112 | The transition | 过渡 |
| 113 | will be very painful. | 将会非常痛苦 |
| 114 | And just to sort of like burrow down on this really quickly, you obviously | 并且只是有点像 洞穴下来这个非常快,你显然 |
| 115 | say that this hack is preventable. | 说这个黑客是可以预防的 |
| 116 | And in some way, this is true. | 在某种程度上,这是真的。 |
| 117 | All hacks are in some way | 所有黑客都是从某种意义上来说 |
| 118 | preventable. | 可预防。 |
| 119 | But what can you say to give assurance to both the people trading on it | 但你能说些什么来保证 交易的双方 |
| 120 | as well as the general public that this will not happen again or something in similar form | 以及一般公众,认为这种情况不会再次发生或以类似形式发生 |
| 121 | will not happen again? | 不会再这样了? |
| 122 | And I don't want to be clear to the audience as well. | 我不想让观众也明白 |
| 123 | I'm approaching | 我来了 |
| 124 | this question in good faith. | 这个问题是真诚的。 |
| 125 | There is no way that you can prevent everything. | 你无法阻止一切 |
| 126 | But I'm sure | 不过,我确定 |
| 127 | that CZ can say something to ensure that there is a smaller probability of something like this | CZ能说点什么来保证 这样的可能性较小 |
| 128 | happening again. | 又来了 |
| 129 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 130 | So I think there's multiple levels of things we can do. | 因此,我认为我们可以做很多层次的事情。 |
| 131 | First of all, | 首先,我们... |
| 132 | something similar should be completely prevented. | 应该完全防止类似的事情发生。 |
| 133 | To be very frank, there were some | 坦白说,有些 |
| 134 | basic OPSEC security procedures that were not followed by some of the internal employees, | 一些内部雇员没有遵循的OPSEC基本安全程序; |
| 135 | which is really bad. | 这真的很糟糕。 |
| 136 | It should not happen for a platform that handles this amount of money. | 这不应该发生在一个处理这笔钱的平台上。 |
| 137 | And then there were stuff that the hackers' sophistication is increasing, very much so. | 后来黑客的精密程度越来越高了 |
| 138 | They used both traditional methods, like just fake interviews, social engineering, etc. | 他们使用两种传统方法,如只是假采访,社会工程等. |
| 139 | And they | 他们 |
| 140 | also used very advanced methods. | 还使用了非常先进的方法。 |
| 141 | They were able to use AI to analyze our systems in a lot of | 他们能够用人工智能来分析我们的系统 很多 |
| 142 | detail very, very quickly. | 细节非常,非常快。 |
| 143 | The entire hack, based on the information I have and based on | 整个黑客 根据我掌握的信息 和基于 |
| 144 | information that made it more public like today, took about five to six months for them to piece | 他们花了大约五到六个月的时间来制作 |
| 145 | together. | 一起来 |
| 146 | So they tried many, many different times to social engineer, to get into the company, | 所以他们尝试了很多,很多不同的时间 社会工程师,进入公司, |
| 147 | etc. | 页:1 |
| 148 | Much of that could be prevented with much stronger operational security procedures. | 通过更有力的业务安全程序,可以防止其中的大部分。 |
| 149 | This part doesn't have to do very much with AI. | 这一部分与AI没有太大关系. |
| 150 | But once they found one weakness, | 但一旦他们发现了一个弱点 |
| 151 | their ability to understand our system is very, very fast. | 他们了解我们系统的能力非常非常快。 |
| 152 | So on that part, we actually need a | 因此,在这个方面,我们实际上需要一个 |
| 153 | lot of help from the AI players to help us to make the system safer. | 许多AI玩家的帮助 帮助我们使系统更安全。 |
| 154 | We have had quite a few | 我们有过不少 |
| 155 | meaningful discussions already. | 已经进行了有意义的讨论。 |
| 156 | And as an industry, we need to come together now to | 作为一个行业,我们需要 一起现在 |
| 157 | make all our systems more secure. | 使我们的系统更加安全。 |
| 158 | As you said, I cannot promise 100% that no other hacks will | 正如你说的,我不能百分之百保证 没有其他黑客会 |
| 159 | happen. | 发生。 |
| 160 | Like anybody telling you that, that's just false. | 就像任何人告诉你, 那只是虚假的。 |
| 161 | I think this is a very intellectual group. | 我认为这是一个非常有知识的群体。 |
| 162 | The technologies for attacking is going to continue to advance. | 攻击技术将继续进步。 |
| 163 | And the technology for | 还有技术 |
| 164 | defense, it's actually harder to defend than to penetrate. | 防御,实际上防御比穿透更难. |
| 165 | To penetrate, you only need to find | 要进入,你只需要找到 |
| 166 | one crack. | 一个裂缝。 |
| 167 | To defend, you need to find all cracks and patch it yourself. | 为了防守,你需要找到所有的裂缝,自己补补. |
| 168 | And now we're seeing a | 而现在我们看到 |
| 169 | step function of AI on the attacker capabilities. | AI在攻击者能力上的步函数。 |
| 170 | And the defense has not really woken up. | 辩方还没有真正醒过来 |
| 171 | So now | 所以现在 |
| 172 | we're in reactive mode. | 我们处于被动状态 |
| 173 | So we need to get the whole industry, not just finance, the whole industry, | 所以我们需要获得整个行业, 不只是金融,整个行业, |
| 174 | including the financial sectors to move this up. | 包括金融部门,以推进这项工作。 |
| 175 | This means we need to work very closely with | 这意味着我们需要与 |
| 176 | some of the frontier AI labs. | 一些前沿AI实验室. |
| 177 | And we need to work very closely with law enforcement | 我们需要与执法部门密切合作 |
| 178 | and regulators and also security experts in the industry. | 以及行业安全专家。 |
| 179 | So there's a whole mountain of work | 所以,有整座山的工作, |
| 180 | ahead of us. | 领先于我们。 |
| 181 | But I do think that I'm very, very confident that it is possible to make an | 但我确实认为,我非常,非常有信心,认为可以使一个 |
| 182 | extremely secure system that we can keep this secure. | 极安全的系统,我们可以保持这个安全。 |
| 183 | So I know this is a very unfortunate | 我知道这很不幸 |
| 184 | large instant. | 相当迅速 |
| 185 | But there's a silver lining here. | 但这里有条光明线 |
| 186 | With this amount, that's like $6 billion being | 有了这个金额,这就像60亿美元是 |
| 187 | hacked, not only is the company mobilizing, we're seeing national security apparatus is mobilizing | 被黑了 公司不仅动员了 国家安全机构也在动员 |
| 188 | to help us. | 帮助我们。 |
| 189 | So because the instance is so big, so now the drive to make things happen, | 所以,因为这个例子是如此之大, 所以现在的驱动 使事情发生, |
| 190 | the ease of actually making things happen is actually much easier now. | 事实上,现在让事情发生起来容易得多。 |
| 191 | So everyone's on board | 所以每个人都在船上 |
| 192 | to make things happen. | 使事情发生。 |
| 193 | So we're getting a lot of help. | 所以我们得到了很多帮助。 |
| 194 | And yeah, so I'm pretty confident. | 是的,所以我相当自信。 |
| 195 | I'm | и琌 |
| 196 | always very confident that the positive forces in our society always win. | 我们社会的积极力量总能赢得胜利。 |
| 197 | So there are some bad | 所以有坏东西 |
| 198 | players, but the positive forces will win. | 玩家,但正能量会赢 |
| 199 | Lastly, on this topic, there's quite a lot of | 最后,关于这个话题,有很多 |
| 200 | effort on the recovery piece as well. | 也努力恢复 |
| 201 | I think the company plus the industry players and | 我认为公司加上行业玩家 |
| 202 | plus many of the law enforcement agencies did a fantastic and vital job to save quite a significant | 再加上很多执法机构 做了一个出色和重要的工作 挽救了相当重要的 |
| 203 | chunk of the damage. | 损失的一整块。 |
| 204 | And that effort is still ongoing. | 这项工作仍在进行中。 |
| 205 | And I'm actually very thankful and | 其实我非常感激 |
| 206 | impressed by the amount of help we got. | 我们得到了很多帮助,这给人们留下了深刻的印象。 |
| 207 | So that big number actually mobilized quite a lot of | 所以,这个大数字 实际上动员了很多 |
| 208 | attention and resources on this issue. | 对这一问题的关注和资源。 |
| 209 | But overall, I do think we will always be able to | 但总的来说,我认为我们永远能够 |
| 210 | make the systems secure enough for people to use that people's funds are always protected. | 使这些系统具有足够的安全性,使人们能够使用人民的资金。 |
| 211 | So let's sort of zoom out away from the particular and just talk about the general. | 所以,让我们有点放大 远离特定的,只是谈论将军。 |
| 212 | So obviously, | 很明显 |
| 213 | you founded Binance and you did so relatively late in your life, right? | 你创立了比南斯, 你做了这么晚在你的生活中,对不对? |
| 214 | Like late 30s, early 40s was | 就像30年代末,40年代初一样 |
| 215 | when Binance was sort of a very, very big part. | 当宾南斯是一个非常,非常大的角色。 |
| 216 | In your view, what is special or unique about | 在你看来,什么是特殊或独特的 |
| 217 | cryptocurrency and the blockchain? | 密码货币和区块链? |
| 218 | And why did you find that this was to be, I don't want to say your | 那你为什么发现这是 我不想说 |
| 219 | life's mission, but perhaps a very large part of what you wanted to do with yourself at that time? | 生命的使命,但也许很大部分 你当时想做什么? |
| 220 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 221 | So I think for most founders, you need to have a mission. | 所以我认为对于大多数创始人来说,你需要有一个使命. |
| 222 | If you're just trying to build | 如果你只是想建设 |
| 223 | some products and just try to make some money, that usually doesn't last that long. | 有些产品,并试着赚钱, 这通常不会持续那么长时间。 |
| 224 | I think today, | 我觉得今天 |
| 225 | most founders have a very passionate, you need passion. | 大多数创始人都很热情 你需要激情 |
| 226 | To have passion, you need a mission. | 要有激情,你需要一个任务。 |
| 227 | So for me, as you said, it took me a long time to actually find that. | 因此,对于我来说,正如你说的, 我花了很长时间才找到这个。 |
| 228 | When you first | 当你第一次的时候 |
| 229 | come into the sort of working world, you're just trying to make money, you're trying to | 进入一种工作世界, 你只是想赚钱, 你试图 |
| 230 | support yourself. | 养活自己 |
| 231 | And then you try to take care of your family, et cetera. | 然后你试图照顾你的家人,等等。 |
| 232 | It takes a while to, | 这需要一段时间, |
| 233 | at least for me, it took a while for me to sort of get to that stage. | 至少对我来说,我花了一段时间才到达那个舞台。 |
| 234 | But I've always | 但我总是 |
| 235 | grew up with the kind of freedom in my head. | 以我脑海中的那种自由成长. |
| 236 | I just didn't realize when I was fresh out of college. | 我只是不知道 当我刚从大学毕业。 |
| 237 | I was born in China, grew up in Canada, moved to Canada when I was 12. | 我出生于中国,在加拿大长大,12岁时移居加拿大. |
| 238 | Canada is a very freedom | 加拿大是一个非常自由的国家 |
| 239 | driven country. | 驱动的国家。 |
| 240 | A lot of freedom of speech, et cetera. | 很多言论自由等等。 |
| 241 | I was the beneficiary of that. | 我从中得益。 |
| 242 | And then I worked in different parts of the world. | 然后,我在世界不同地区工作。 |
| 243 | So I had a worldview. | 所以我有一个世界观。 |
| 244 | I didn't lock myself into | 我没有把自己锁起来 |
| 245 | any specific country. | 任何特定国家。 |
| 246 | And then when the internet happened, there was freedom of information, | 然后当互联网发生, 信息自由, |
| 247 | et cetera. | 等诸经. |
| 248 | But I was just too young to just capture that. | 但我当时太年轻 无法抓住它 |
| 249 | I was actually just about to be | 其实我正要 |
| 250 | out of college, but unlike Mike Zuckerberg, et cetera. | 大学毕业,但不像迈克・扎克伯格,等等。 |
| 251 | So they kind of caught it. | 他们抓住了 |
| 252 | It wasn't | 这不是 |
| 253 | until when I came across Bitcoin, I was like, this is the technology for the future. | 直到我遇到比特币时,我一直想, 这是未来的技术。 |
| 254 | For me, once I really understood that this is a technology for the future, | 对我来说,一旦我真的明白 这是未来的技术, |
| 255 | that's when I know this has huge positive impact. | 那时我知道这有巨大的积极影响。 |
| 256 | I know the road will be very rough. | 我知道这条路会很艰难 |
| 257 | If you look at | 如果你看着 |
| 258 | all the important technologies, they all go through some really up and down the rough periods | 所有重要的技术, 他们都经历了一些真正的上下 粗糙的时期 |
| 259 | at the beginning. | 在开始。 |
| 260 | Printing was banned in most places when it first came out. | 印刷在初出世时在大多数地方被禁止. |
| 261 | Freedom of press | 新闻自由 |
| 262 | was a big topic, debated, et cetera. | 是一个大话题,辩论,等等。 |
| 263 | There was a lot of turmoil. | 发生了很多动乱。 |
| 264 | So all of this highly impactful | 所以,所有这一切 高度的影响 |
| 265 | technology advancements in our society are always fought. | 我们社会的技术进步总是在斗争。 |
| 266 | They're not easy. | 他们不容易。 |
| 267 | So I thought it was very | 所以我觉得这是非常 |
| 268 | clear to me then and even now that the blockchain does bring freedom of money. | 我当时甚至现在都清楚 区块链确实带来了金钱的自由 |
| 269 | And I think this is | 我想这是 |
| 270 | going to have huge impacts on our society. | 将会对我们的社会产生巨大影响 |
| 271 | And we're just beginning to see some of that. | 我们刚刚开始看到一些。 |
| 272 | Could you elaborate perhaps on... | 你能解释一下... |
| 273 | So let's say I'm a skeptical person. | 故言我为疑者. |
| 274 | Let's say I'm the skeptic here. | 假设我在这里是怀疑者. |
| 275 | And I'm like, what's this freedom of money you're speaking about? | 而我喜欢,这是什么自由 钱你谈论? |
| 276 | What's wrong with the | 有什么不对劲 |
| 277 | Federal Reserve? | 联邦储备局? |
| 278 | What's wrong with just using some money that is issued by governments? | 仅仅使用一些由政府发行的钱有什么问题? |
| 279 | Why can't I | 为什么我不能 |
| 280 | trade that? | 交易吗? |
| 281 | What's the big deal about this? | 这有什么大不了的? |
| 282 | Why do I need a separate blockchain? | 为什么我需要一个单独的区块链? |
| 283 | And why are people | 为什么是人 |
| 284 | making somehow so much money out of it? | 赚这么多钱? |
| 285 | Well, there's quite a few different things there | 嗯,那里有很多不同的东西 |
| 286 | you mentioned. | 你提到过。 |
| 287 | I'll break it down one by one. | 逐一拆开. |
| 288 | I think the first one is just the usability. | 我认为第一个只是可用性。 |
| 289 | So today in most developed... UK is one of the strongest and oldest financial centers. | 所以今天在最发达的... 联合王国是最强大和最古老的金融中心之一。 |
| 290 | So you probably don't feel as much of the lack of financial access here. | 所以,你可能没有感觉 太多的缺乏资金在这里。 |
| 291 | But if you leave this | 但是如果你离开这个 |
| 292 | country, go to Africa, Southeast Asia, you will feel that Africa, only 11% of people have banks. | 国家,去非洲,东南亚, 你会觉得非洲, 只有11%的人有银行。 |
| 293 | And you take them three days to pay a bill. | 你花三天时间付帐单 |
| 294 | So when you're in those kind of situations, financial | 所以,当你处于这种情况下,财政 |
| 295 | access is actually really important. | 访问实际上很重要。 |
| 296 | And now with crypto, one village has one smartphone, | 现在用密码,一个村庄有一个智能手机, |
| 297 | but the entire village can now pay their bills within three seconds. | 但整个村庄现在可以在三秒钟内支付账单。 |
| 298 | And now they don't have to spend three days walking to a different part of the | 现在他们不用花三天 步行到另一个地方 |
| 299 | village, a different part of the town, et cetera, to do this. | 村庄,镇的另一部分,等等,这样做。 |
| 300 | So there's some real use cases here, | 所以这里有些真正有用的案子 |
| 301 | which are not obvious to some of the established financial centers. | 对一些已设立的金融中心来说并不明显。 |
| 302 | But as you said, | 但正如你说的 |
| 303 | today in the established financial centers, nobody's free from inflation. | 今天在金融中心 没人能摆脱通货膨胀 |
| 304 | And the inflation is quite arbitrary. | 而通货膨胀是相当武断的。 |
| 305 | So inflation itself is not the problem, actually. | 事实上,通货膨胀本身不是问题所在。 |
| 306 | But usually there's too much inflation. | 但通常通货膨胀过高. |
| 307 | So a little bit of inflation is actually... | 所以一点通货膨胀其实是... |
| 308 | There are arguments for having inflation and that kind of boosts the economy, stimulus activity, | 有观点认为通货膨胀会刺激经济 刺激活动 |
| 309 | et cetera. | 等诸经. |
| 310 | But too much inflation, involuntarily, means that you're just getting poor very quickly. | 但是,过度的通货膨胀,非自愿的, 意味着你只是变得贫穷 很快。 |
| 311 | People should have the tools to protect themselves from that. | 人们应该有工具来保护自己免受伤害。 |
| 312 | And blockchain cryptocurrencies is a | 和块链密码是一个 |
| 313 | I'm not saying all cryptocurrencies are good for that, but there are certain cryptocurrencies | 我不是说所有密码都好 但是有些密码 |
| 314 | that are. | 这是。 |
| 315 | The early adopters of Bitcoin got rich because as more and more people realized some of | 比特币早期的收养者变得富有 因为随着越来越多的人意识到 |
| 316 | these values, then more people come in. | 这些价值,然后更多的人进来。 |
| 317 | But the early adopters also took the risk. | 但早期的收养者也承担了风险. |
| 318 | Bitcoin may or | 比特币可能或 |
| 319 | may not be the final one. | 可能不是最后一个。 |
| 320 | So the early adopters of any... | 所以早期的收养人... |
| 321 | The early investors in AI companies | AI公司的早期投资者 |
| 322 | are doing well. | 进展顺利 |
| 323 | The early investors in all the major companies, they're rewarded disproportionately. | 所有大公司的早期投资者,都得到不成比例的奖励. |
| 324 | Some people are becoming rich because they kind of took the risk and joined early. | 有些人因为冒险提前加入而变得富有。 |
| 325 | But this is just the beginning. | 但这只是开始。 |
| 326 | Payments globally, if you want to pay somebody in the UK, | 在全球范围内,如果你想支付 在英国的人, |
| 327 | it's probably not that difficult. | 可能没那么难 |
| 328 | But if you want to pay somebody across a different part of the | 但是,如果你想支付某人 在另一部分 |
| 329 | country, or a different country, if your amount's a little bit large, it gets really complicated | 国家,或者另一个国家, 如果你的金额有点大, 它变得非常复杂 |
| 330 | very quickly. | 很快的,你应该知道 |
| 331 | And so payments haven't really taken off in crypto either, to be very frank. | 因此,付款也没有真正 关闭密码,非常坦率。 |
| 332 | But there are special use cases, cross-border remittances. | 但有特殊用途案例,跨境汇款. |
| 333 | Some of those use cases are very | 有些使用的案例非常严重 |
| 334 | useful and growing very quickly. | 有用而且成长很快 |
| 335 | And then there are other things like tokenizing everything, | 还有别的东西,比如说一切 |
| 336 | real-world assets. | 现实世界的资产。 |
| 337 | Today, there's no reason for markets to only trade between nine and three. | 今天,市场没有理由只进行九三之间的交易. |
| 338 | And events could happen on weekends. | 周末可能会有事情发生 |
| 339 | There could be a war, there can be strikes, | 可能发生战争,也可能发生罢工 |
| 340 | there can be other things. | 还有别的事 |
| 341 | Price will move. | 价格会移动。 |
| 342 | People need liquidity. | 人们需要流动性。 |
| 343 | There's no reason why | 没有理由 |
| 344 | the current technology couldn't handle it. | 目前的技术无法应付。 |
| 345 | But using blockchain is much better. | 但使用区块链要好得多. |
| 346 | It's much easier. | 这容易得多。 |
| 347 | And also, I've subscribed to... | 还有,我签了... |
| 348 | I'm not political. | 我没有政治色彩 |
| 349 | I don't get involved in geopolitics, etc. | 不涉地缘政治等. |
| 350 | I very much wish I had a free economy globally. | 我非常希望我有一个全球的自由经济。 |
| 351 | Having a free economy globally means that you | 拥有全球自由经济意味着你 |
| 352 | should have the same liquidity globally. | 全球流动资金应该相同。 |
| 353 | You should have global liquidity. | 你应该有全球流动性。 |
| 354 | So that can be | 这样就可以了 |
| 355 | much easier done on the blockchain than through banking systems today. | 与今天的银行系统相比,在区块链上做的要容易得多。 |
| 356 | I'm not against banks. | 我不反对银行。 |
| 357 | I actually think banks should adopt blockchain technologies to provide that too. | 我实际上认为银行应该采用区块链技术来提供这种技术。 |
| 358 | There's a lot of use cases. | 使用的案例很多. |
| 359 | I can go on on this topic, but I want to be conscious of that at all. | 我可以继续讨论这个问题,但我想对此有所了解。 |
| 360 | And that's very, very fair. | 这很公平 |
| 361 | You've already mentioned that any new technology experiences | 你已经说过任何新技术经验 |
| 362 | some hiccups along the way. | 路上有打嗝声 |
| 363 | And in your view, obviously, if we look at the way that the world | 在你看来,显然, 如果我们看看世界的方式 |
| 364 | is right now, most governments, if not all governments, are not switching to blockchain | 现在,大多数政府,如果不是所有的政府, 都不再转而使用区块链 |
| 365 | technology, at least right now. | 技术,至少现在。 |
| 366 | In your view, based on what you've seen so far, how long do | 在你看来 根据你目前所看到的 需要多长时间 |
| 367 | you think this sort of process will take if it will happen at all? | 你觉得如果真的发生,这种过程会需要吗? |
| 368 | And what do you think are sort | 你觉得什么是排序 |
| 369 | of the primary obstacles that can be lifted in order to reach this stage that you would like to | 为了达到你所希望达到的这个阶段,可以解除的主要障碍 |
| 370 | have? | 是吗? |
| 371 | I think overall, the overall timelines, there's usually like a curve. | 总的来说,总的时间表, 通常有像曲线。 |
| 372 | Initially, it's | 最初,这是 |
| 373 | going to pick up, and then it's going to come slow again. | 然后又会慢慢来 |
| 374 | So once you reach the 80% threshold, | 一旦你达到80%的门槛 |
| 375 | the last 20% is going to take forever. | 最后的20%将永远承受。 |
| 376 | It's going to take 100 years. | 将须百年. |
| 377 | But to reach the 20% | 但要达到20% |
| 378 | probably takes five to 10 years, in my opinion. | 可能要花5到10年,在我看来。 |
| 379 | I could be wrong. | 我可能错了 |
| 380 | And the middle part probably | 而中间部分可能 |
| 381 | takes like one or two decades for the middle 60s, 70, 80% adoption. | 60,70,80%的中间收养需要一到二十年的时间. |
| 382 | The reason for this is | 其原因是 |
| 383 | initially, everyone's skeptical. | 起初,每个人都持怀疑态度. |
| 384 | I think we just kind of got past that. | 我想我们只是有点过了这一点。 |
| 385 | We're kind of at this stage | 我们到了这个阶段 |
| 386 | where we're seeing very good growth now. | 在那里,我们看到 非常好的增长现在。 |
| 387 | Namely, US is now pro-crypto. | 也就是说,美国现在支持催眠。 |
| 388 | When US is pro-crypto, | 当美国支持催眠, |
| 389 | the rest of the world is going to follow. | 世间众生随顺. |
| 390 | So they change a lot of other governments' opinions. | 所以他们改变了很多其他政府的意见. |
| 391 | So many other governments, they will not lead, but they will follow. | 如此之多的其他国家政府,他们不会领导,但会跟随. |
| 392 | And they want to be aligned | 并且他们想要被配合 |
| 393 | with the US. | 和美国。 |
| 394 | So I think that's a very significant change only in the last two years. | 所以,我认为这只是在过去两年里一个非常显著的变化。 |
| 395 | And then there's a lot to change in financial systems, to upgrade our financial systems. | 然后,金融系统也有很多变化, 来提升我们的金融系统。 |
| 396 | It just takes a long time because large organizations are resistant. | 这需要很长时间,因为大型组织有抵抗能力。 |
| 397 | They're not | 他们不是 |
| 398 | deliberately resistant to change, but they just are. | 故意抵制改变,但他们只是。 |
| 399 | So if you look at all the infrastructure | 所以,如果你看看所有的基础设施 |
| 400 | that we build today for banks to integrate directly with the blockchain, that's just a | 我们今天建造银行 直接与区块链融合, 那只是一个 |
| 401 | new player's becoming pretty large pretty quickly. | 新玩家的变大 相当快。 |
| 402 | Binance is one of the examples. | 比南斯就是一个例子。 |
| 403 | But the integration with traditional finance is still just the beginning. | 但与传统金融的融合还只是开始. |
| 404 | Binance has had difficulty getting banking access in many parts of the world, but it's improving. | 比南斯在世界许多地方都难以获得银行业务准入,但情况正在好转. |
| 405 | And then also, countries are used to operate by being able to control the currency. | 之后,各国通过能够控制货币来运作. |
| 406 | So that's a | 这么说吧 |
| 407 | huge change. | 巨大的变化。 |
| 408 | Countries used to be able to operate by controlling religion, press. | 各国过去通过控制宗教,新闻来运作. |
| 409 | But it's okay. | 但没关系。 |
| 410 | And actually, the countries who are doing the best right now get those up. | 而实际上,那些做最好的国家 现在把这些拿起来。 |
| 411 | So the countries | 所以各国 |
| 412 | separate religion from state, and then the countries do better. | 将宗教从国家中分离出来,然后各国做得更好。 |
| 413 | The countries who did | 这样做的国家 |
| 414 | that first did better, and the countries who didn't control speech actually grown economically | 而那些没有控制言论的国家 却在经济上增长 |
| 415 | really well. | 很不错。 |
| 416 | But for any organization, for any entity, be it a government, | 但对任何组织,对任何实体, 无论是政府, |
| 417 | they have a, all entities have a self-protecting reaction. | 所有实体都有自我保护的反应 |
| 418 | So they want, a government will want | 因此,他们想要,一个政府会想要 |
| 419 | more and more power. | 越来越强大了 |
| 420 | They may even not want that. | 他们甚至可能不希望这样。 |
| 421 | They may say they don't want it. | 他们可能说他们不想要 |
| 422 | But whenever | 但无论何时 |
| 423 | something bad happens, they'll say, okay, we're going to need this power. | 坏事发生,他们会说, 好吧,我们需要这种力量。 |
| 424 | Over time, it just grows. | 随时间推移,它只会增长。 |
| 425 | So that's just a natural tendency. | 所以这只是一个自然的趋势。 |
| 426 | And for them to relinquish or let go, say, well, we actually | 让他们放弃或放手,说,其实我们 |
| 427 | don't need to control money. | 不需要控制钱 |
| 428 | Let that to be a real free economy. | 让这成为真正的自由经济。 |
| 429 | There'll be problems. | 会有麻烦的 |
| 430 | There'll | 会有的 |
| 431 | be ups and downs. | 上下之间 |
| 432 | There'll be other problems during that process. | 在这个过程中还有其他问题. |
| 433 | And every time when there's a | 每当有 |
| 434 | problem, the government wants to step in to fix it. | 问题,政府想介入解决 |
| 435 | But usually governments are actually not the | 但通常政府实际上不是 |
| 436 | most efficient and they're not the best players to solve economic problems. | 他们不是解决经济问题的最佳参与者 |
| 437 | I'm not saying all | 我不是说所有 |
| 438 | governments. | 政府。 |
| 439 | That's always the case. | 总是如此。 |
| 440 | But in many cases, that's the case. | 但在许多情况下,情况就是这样。 |
| 441 | So we're going to see a | 所以我们会看到一个 |
| 442 | perfect either. | 也不错 |
| 443 | We see a lot of like, no, we see a $6 billion hack. | 我们看到很多类似,不,我们看到一个60亿美元的黑客。 |
| 444 | We see a lot of problems in | 我们看到很多问题 |
| 445 | this industry. | 这个行业。 |
| 446 | So this industry needs to mature as well. | 所以这个行业也需要成熟. |
| 447 | So that's the considerations on both sides. | 这就是双方的考虑。 |
| 448 | But the trend is clear. | 但趋势是明确的。 |
| 449 | The trend, the trend, the trend will continue. | 趋势,趋势,趋势将继续下去. |
| 450 | The technology | 技术 |
| 451 | improvement will continue. | 将继续改进。 |
| 452 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 453 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 454 | So in terms of the sort of global trends, | 因此,就全球趋势而言, |
| 455 | you've spoken quite a bit also about artificial intelligence, right? | 你说过很多关于人工智能的事,对吧? |
| 456 | And obviously no interview | 显然没有采访 |
| 457 | is complete without an obligatory question regarding artificial intelligence. | 完全没有关于人工智能的强制性问题。 |
| 458 | But I do | 但我喜欢 |
| 459 | want to focus that question. | 想把问题集中起来 |
| 460 | So both in terms of you specifically, and then we can sort of go into | 所以,从具体来说,你, 然后我们可以去排序的 |
| 461 | more general thoughts. | 更笼统的想法。 |
| 462 | So in your view, how is artificial intelligence and its rise impacting | 所以在你看来 人工智能及其上升 如何影响 |
| 463 | sort of the cryptocurrency, cryptocurrency? | 某种密码货币,密码货币? |
| 464 | And then if you have any other sort of other general | 如果你还有别的将军 |
| 465 | thoughts about artificial intelligence as well, please feel free to share those. | 也考虑人工智能,请随意分享。 |
| 466 | Sure. | 当然 |
| 467 | Well, I think first of all, let me share the general part. | 首先,我想,让我分享一下一般部分。 |
| 468 | I was just at home down like | 我当时在家 |
| 469 | one of the incubators here. | 这里的孵化器之一。 |
| 470 | Artificial intelligence is now going to make software development, | 人工智能现在可以开发软件了 |
| 471 | it's already making software development much easier, and it's going to continue to make it | 它已经使软件开发变得容易得多了, 并且它将继续使它 |
| 472 | much easier on an exponential scale, right? | 指数级更简单,对吧? |
| 473 | So like, I don't know, you guys probably use, | 所以,像,我不知道, 你们可能使用, |
| 474 | actually, you guys probably use that more than me. | 事实上,你们可能 使用比我多。 |
| 475 | But before ChatGPT 6, I tried vibe coding. | 但在ChatGPT 6之前,我尝试了气温编码。 |
| 476 | I'm actually a developer, but the vibe coding doesn't quite work. | 我其实是一个开发者, 但气氛编码不完全工作。 |
| 477 | There's issues here and there, | 这里和那里都有问题 |
| 478 | you need to spend a lot of time. | 你需要花很多时间。 |
| 479 | With ChatGPT 6, now it does a complete app without you interfering | 使用ChatGPT 6,现在它做了一个完整的应用程序,没有你干扰 |
| 480 | very much at all. | 非常喜欢 |
| 481 | But the apps are more limited towards at least the ones I tried to on one | 但应用软件比较有限 至少我尝试过 |
| 482 | machine. | 机器 机器 电脑 |
| 483 | I haven't really tried server, client, like large systems. | 我还没试过服务器 客户端 像大系统一样 |
| 484 | But the trend is very clear. | 但这个趋势非常明显。 |
| 485 | This has interesting implications. | 这有其意义。 |
| 486 | Now, if you want to do a startup, if you want to do your own | 现在, 如果你想做一个启动, 如果你想做自己的 |
| 487 | project, the coding part is going to become much easier. | 项目,编码部分将变得容易得多。 |
| 488 | So now everything around the coding, | 所以现在所有围绕编码, |
| 489 | how do you do product design? | 你怎么设计产品? |
| 490 | How do you analyze the market? | 你怎么分析市场? |
| 491 | How do you solve a problem? | 你怎么解决问题? |
| 492 | Those parts actually now come into play. | 这些部分现在实际上发挥作用。 |
| 493 | If we look at 20 years ago, if 10, 20 years ago, | 如果我们看20年前, 如果10,20年前, |
| 494 | if you want to do an internet startup, you have to set up your own servers, right? | 如果你想做一个互联网启动, 你必须设置自己的服务器,对不对? |
| 495 | So now you've | 所以现在你已经 |
| 496 | got that part is much easier. | 得到这个部分 容易得多。 |
| 497 | So now we've got this coding will become much easier. | 所以现在我们有了这个编码会变得容易得多。 |
| 498 | But the bad side of this is though, now the competition is going to be much more fierce. | 但是,不好的一面是, 现在的竞争将会更加激烈。 |
| 499 | Everyone's going to be able to code. | 所有人都能用密码 |
| 500 | So now you really have to differentiate your idea. | 所以,现在你真的必须 区分你的想法。 |
| 501 | But overall, this is good. | 但总的来说,这是很好的。 |
| 502 | Overall, it means that we will see a hundred more, a thousand times or | 总的来说,这意味着我们将看到一百倍,一千倍或 |
| 503 | maybe even a million times more startups, entrepreneurs, new ideas, innovations, et cetera. | 也许还有上百万倍的创业者、企业家、新思想、创新等等。 |
| 504 | So this is very good in general. | 总的来说,这是非常好的。 |
| 505 | And then you bring narrow this into the crypto industry. | 然后把这个带进密码行业 |
| 506 | We talked about the security aspects of it, but it also means that the crypto industry, | 我们谈到了它的安全方面, 但也意味着密码行业, |
| 507 | the coding speed, the technology improvements are going to become very fast. | 编码速度,技术改进会变得非常快。 |
| 508 | So we can build | 这样我们就可以建造 |
| 509 | much better apps. | 更好的应用程序。 |
| 510 | We can build faster blockchains faster or quicker. | 我们可以更快或更快地建立区块链. |
| 511 | And there are some other | 还有别的 |
| 512 | potential impacts as well. | 也会产生潜在影响。 |
| 513 | AI is solving math problems so quickly. | AI解决数学问题这么快。 |
| 514 | So we may need to upgrade | 所以我们可能需要升级 |
| 515 | quite a lot of the either math or encryption algorithms around cryptocurrencies. | 大量的数学或加密算法 围绕加密。 |
| 516 | But again, | 但再说一遍 |
| 517 | that's just going to make things safer. | 那只会让事情更安全 |
| 518 | Short term, they may have some impacts. | 短期内,它们可能有一些影响。 |
| 519 | Then you migrate, we need migration impacts. | 然后,你移民, 我们需要移民的影响。 |
| 520 | And then more AI is going to conduct a very large | 然后更多的AI会进行一个非常大的 |
| 521 | amount of transactions. | 交易额。 |
| 522 | I think people don't understand how many transactions AI can conduct. | 我认为人们不明白AI能进行多少交易. |
| 523 | Right now, AI agents are still kind of at the information stage or information software building | 现在,AI代理 仍然有点在信息阶段 或信息软件建设 |
| 524 | stage. | 阶段。 |
| 525 | They're not really transacting with each other yet. | 他们还没有真正相互交流。 |
| 526 | They will. | 他们会的。 |
| 527 | And then once AI agents | 然后,一旦AI探员 |
| 528 | transact on our behalf, there will be many, many times more transactions, what we call micro | 代表我们进行交易, 交易会很多,很多倍多, 我们称之为微型 |
| 529 | transactions. | 交易。 |
| 530 | So you can hire a developer in Asia to do something for you. | 你可以在亚洲雇个开发商 为你做点什么 |
| 531 | And it could be a very | 这可能是非常 |
| 532 | long-term contract. | 长期合同。 |
| 533 | And once they're done, it'll be agent to agent transactions. | 一旦他们完成,就会成为代理交易的代理人. |
| 534 | So we can see a lot | 所以我们可以看到很多 |
| 535 | more of that, I think. | 更多,我认为。 |
| 536 | And then they're going to require a very native digital high super currency, | 然后,他们需要 一个非常本地的数码高超货币, |
| 537 | which I guarantee is going to be blockchain. | 我保证会是块链。 |
| 538 | Whether it's Bitcoin or not, I cannot guarantee. | 不管是不是比特币 我都不能保证 |
| 539 | It could be a new currency, one of the AI companies released. | 它可能是一种新的货币, AI公司发行之一。 |
| 540 | It could be a consortium | 可能是财团 |
| 541 | that can converge on one, the public one, who knows. | 就能与公众一致 谁知道 |
| 542 | But it's going to be a blockchain-based | 但它会是一个块链 |
| 543 | currency if it has to be used by everyone in the world. | 如果必须让全世界每个人使用的话。 |
| 544 | So I think we're just at the beginning | 所以我觉得我们才刚刚开始 |
| 545 | of that. | 就是这样 |
| 546 | So AI will really increase the speed of growth. | 因此AI会真正提高增长速度. |
| 547 | I have two follow-ups. | 我有两个后续 |
| 548 | So first on the hardware limit, the technological limit. | 所以先是硬件限制,技术限制. |
| 549 | So obviously, | 很明显 |
| 550 | when you have artificial intelligence, you're going to need servers, data centers, so on and so | 当你有了人工智能, 你需要服务器,数据中心,等等 |
| 551 | forth. | 离开。 |
| 552 | And when you want to mine Bitcoin or in any kind of cryptocurrency, you are also going | 当你想要我的比特币 或任何一种密码货币, 你也要去 |
| 553 | to need servers, you're going to need tech, you're going to need lots of water will be used | 需要服务器 你需要技术 需要大量水 |
| 554 | regardless. | 不管怎么说 |
| 555 | Do you have faith that the hardware that is being used is going to catch up to the | 你相信正在使用的硬件会赶上 |
| 556 | software requirements that you predict will be necessary in the future? | 您预测未来需要的软件要求? |
| 557 | I think so. | 我想是这样。 |
| 558 | There's a | 有一个 |
| 559 | very simple explanation to that based on this is my logic, could be wrong. | 根据我的逻辑来解释,可能是错误的。 |
| 560 | There's just so much | 有这么多 |
| 561 | money there. | 钱在那里。 |
| 562 | The world's most valuable company is a chip company right now, NVIDIA. | 世界最有价值的公司是现在的芯片公司NVIDIA. |
| 563 | And the | 还有 |
| 564 | world's most valuable companies, the top five, ten, are AI companies. | 世界最有价值的公司,前五,前十,是AI公司. |
| 565 | So there's so much money | 这么多钱 |
| 566 | pouring in there. | 倾盆而入. |
| 567 | So they're going to develop pretty quickly. | 所以它们会很快发展起来。 |
| 568 | I actually think that the whole | 其实我觉得整个 |
| 569 | Earth, a large part of the Earth's surface will be covered by silicon pretty soon. | 地球的很大一部分地表 很快就会被硅覆盖 |
| 570 | So right now, | 所以现在 |
| 571 | if you look at even solar, et cetera, they still cover a very small percentage of the Earth's | 如果你看看太阳,等等, 它们仍然覆盖 地球很小的百分比 |
| 572 | surface. | 表面显示。 |
| 573 | I actually think double digit percentage of the Earth's surface could be covered by solar | 实际上我觉得地球表面的两位数百分比 可以被太阳覆盖 |
| 574 | data centers, basically by silicon. | 数据中心,主要是硅 |
| 575 | And the demand for compute will continue to grow exponentially | 对计算的需求将继续成倍增长 |
| 576 | given the AI capabilities are growing at that speed. | 鉴于人工智能能力以这一速度增长。 |
| 577 | So the demand will be there. | 因此,需求将在那里。 |
| 578 | There will be limitations. | 会有限制的。 |
| 579 | We may run out of raw materials, but some materials. | 我们可能没有原料,但有些原料。 |
| 580 | But at the same | 但还是一样 |
| 581 | time, with the speed of innovation and research, they'll find other materials for substitutes. | 时间,随着创新和研究的速度,他们会找到替代物的其他材料. |
| 582 | There will be newer chips. | 会有新的芯片。 |
| 583 | There will be different types of chips. | 会有不同类型的芯片。 |
| 584 | There will be different types of | 会有不同的类型 |
| 585 | data centers. | 数据中心。 |
| 586 | So I think we shouldn't be limited by our imagination that we only need to | 所以,我认为我们不应该被 我们的想象所限制 我们只需要 |
| 587 | apply the current design. | 应用当前设计。 |
| 588 | I think things will change pretty dramatically, especially if AI is | 我觉得事情会大有改变 尤其是如果AI是 |
| 589 | going to change the encryption algorithms for our industry, they are going to change the material | 要改变我们行业的加密算法 他们要改变材料 |
| 590 | algorithms for hardware. | 硬件的算法。 |
| 591 | So I think all of that will happen. | 所以,我认为这一切将会发生。 |
| 592 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 593 | And my second follow-up is more | 而我的第二个后续行动是更多的 |
| 594 | of a human thing. | 人类的东西。 |
| 595 | So before this, you visited one of the startup incubators in Oxford. | 在此之前,你参观了牛津的一个创业孵化器。 |
| 596 | So you | 这么说你 |
| 597 | visited Holmdahl before this. | 之前拜访了霍尔姆达尔 |
| 598 | And you have quite a lot of experience in terms of building firms. | 在建筑公司方面,你经验丰富。 |
| 599 | And | 还有 |
| 600 | one of the things about AI and the sort of vibe coding, I would say vibe coding mania and so on | 关于人工智能和那种 感觉编码,我会说 感觉编码狂躁等等 |
| 601 | and so forth, is that when a lot of young entrepreneurs grow up with vibe coding being | 例如,当许多年轻企业家 成长时,气氛编码是 |
| 602 | something that can be done, you miss out on the sort of nuts and bolts that actually make you a | 有些事情可以做,你错过了 那种坚果和螺栓 让你成为一个 |
| 603 | successful entrepreneur, right? | 成功的企业家,对不对? |
| 604 | Sort of the trial and error, the process. | 排序试验和错误,过程。 |
| 605 | So when you were earlier | 所以当你更早的时候 |
| 606 | saying, oh, let 100 flowers bloom. | 说,哦,让100朵花开花。 |
| 607 | They're going to be all of these firms competing with each other. | 他们将会是所有这些公司 互相竞争。 |
| 608 | What's the quality of this competition going to look like? | 这场比赛的质量会怎样? |
| 609 | I mean, I still remember a couple | 我还记得一对夫妇 |
| 610 | years ago when there was this sort of startup craze. | 几年前,当有 这种启动的疯狂。 |
| 611 | And the startup was like a juicer that juiced | 启动时就像一个果汁机 |
| 612 | pre-packaged juice that wasn't very useful. | 预包装的果汁没有多大用处。 |
| 613 | So how much faith do you have that this will be a useful | 所以,你有多有信心 这将会是一个有用的 |
| 614 | set of startups competing with each other? | 一组初创企业互相竞争? |
| 615 | That's a very good question. | 这是一个非常好的问题。 |
| 616 | But I don't think that's | 但我不认为 |
| 617 | going to be a problem. | 这将是一个问题。 |
| 618 | I think people need to learn the fundamentals of how things work. | 我认为人们需要学习 如何运作的基本原理。 |
| 619 | This | 这个 |
| 620 | right now, look, even when I was in university, I learned about the transistors, the end gates, | 现在,你看,即使我在大学, 我了解晶体管,端门, |
| 621 | NAND gates. | 南德门. |
| 622 | Look, I learned that. | 你看,我学会了这一点。 |
| 623 | But in my work, I never had to use it, right? | 但在我的工作里,我从来没有使用过,对不对? |
| 624 | So very few people | 所以很少有人 |
| 625 | actually go to the transistor level today, right? | 今天真的去晶体管了 对吧? |
| 626 | Unless you're really that deep. | 除非你真的这么深。 |
| 627 | You only need a | 你只需要一个 |
| 628 | small number of people. | 人数少。 |
| 629 | So we're going to become more and more specialized. | 所以我们会越来越专业化。 |
| 630 | You only need a small | 你只需要一点 |
| 631 | number of people to go there. | 要去那里的人数。 |
| 632 | When I started programming, I started like C, C++ was the main | 当我开始编程时,我开始像C,C++是主要 |
| 633 | programming language. | 编程语言. |
| 634 | You do memory allocation. | 你做记忆分配。 |
| 635 | You're dealing with all of this much more complex | 你正在处理这些更复杂的事情 |
| 636 | stuff. | 东西。 |
| 637 | Now you don't worry about it. | 现在你不用担心了 |
| 638 | So I think today, when AI writes you code, you should check | 所以我觉得今天 当AI给你写代码时 你应该检查一下 |
| 639 | it, especially for important applications. | 特别是对于重要的应用 |
| 640 | You shouldn't just blindly trust it. | 你不应该盲目相信它。 |
| 641 | But at the same | 但还是一样 |
| 642 | time, AI is very good at analyzing code. | 时间,AI非常擅长分析代码. |
| 643 | You can have multiple agents, one writing, one checking. | 你可以有多个探员 一个写一个检查 |
| 644 | You can even have them from different companies. | 你甚至可以从不同的公司得到它们。 |
| 645 | People are already doing this, right? | 人们已经这样做了,对不对? |
| 646 | So you get | 所以你会得到 |
| 647 | anthropic writing code, and then you have OpenAI checking it, stuff like that. | 人类写作密码,然后你让OpenAI检查, 类似的东西。 |
| 648 | There are swarms of | 有一大群人来 |
| 649 | 300 agents per developer checking their own agent's code. | 每个开发商300名代理商检查自己的代理商代码. |
| 650 | So once that matures to a stage, | 所以一旦成熟到舞台上, |
| 651 | you just need to understand the basic concept of how AI does write code. | 你只需要理解AI如何写代码的基本概念. |
| 652 | At some point, you | 在某个时候,你 |
| 653 | won't need to even look into the code. | 不需要查密码 |
| 654 | And to be honest, at some point, the machines may just write | 老实说,在某刻,机器可能只是写 |
| 655 | bytecode, like code that humans cannot understand easily. | 字节码 就像人类无法轻易理解的代码 |
| 656 | 因为现在,你写Python, | |
| 657 | 或者你写JavaScript。 | |
| 658 | Those are made for humans. | 这些是为人类而制造的。 |
| 659 | They're actually not machine efficient. | 他们实际上不是机器的效率。 |
| 660 | If you directly write assembly, it's much more efficient. | 如果直接写入组装,则效率要高得多. |
| 661 | For AI, it's the same thing. | 对AI来说,这是同样的事情. |
| 662 | For us, | 为了我们 |
| 663 | it's quite a bit harder. | 有点难 |
| 664 | AI can bypass the compiler. | AI可以绕过编译器. |
| 665 | We don't need to go through the | 我们不需要经过 |
| 666 | compiler stage anymore, or the interpreter stage anymore. | 编译器阶段 或解释器阶段 |
| 667 | So once the technology matures enough, | 所以一旦技术成熟了 |
| 668 | we don't need to understand the nuts and bolts. | 我们不需要理解坚果和螺栓。 |
| 669 | Very few people understand compilers today. | 今天很少有人理解编译器. |
| 670 | 99% of programs today don't deal with compilers directly. | 99%的程序今天不直接处理编译器. |
| 671 | So I think we're going to get to that | 所以,我想我们会得到这一点 |
| 672 | stage. | 阶段。 |
| 673 | So I'm less worried about it. | 故少忧. |
| 674 | Today, when we drive a car, we don't really understand what | 今天,当我们开车的时候, 我们真的不明白什么 |
| 675 | engine does. | 引擎会。 |
| 676 | Fair enough. | 不错 |
| 677 | One last question from me, and then I'm going to turn to audience | 我最后一个问题,然后我要转告观众 |
| 678 | questions. | 问题。 |
| 679 | Over the last couple of years, we've had the resurgence of cryptocurrency. | 在过去的几年里, 我们重新出现了密码货币。 |
| 680 | And then while the value of cryptocurrency pretty much stayed, the hype around cryptocurrency | 当密码货币的价值 几乎保留了下来时 密码货币周围的韵律 |
| 681 | declined. | 拒绝。 |
| 682 | So I still remember 2020 to 2022, where even Reuters and Bloomberg were talking | 我还记得2020年到2022年 路透社和彭博社都在谈论 |
| 683 | about cryptocurrency, and that sort of disappeared. | 关于密码货币, 而那种消失。 |
| 684 | But the value of cryptocurrency | 但密码货币的价值 |
| 685 | very much stayed the same, and people still used it in many of these cases. | 许多人仍然使用它。 |
| 686 | And now we have | 现在我们有了 |
| 687 | sort of governments around the world either cracking down on it. | 世界各地的政府 要么就粉碎它。 |
| 688 | So for example, | 比如说, |
| 689 | this is a factual statement, China has banned cryptocurrency in many of these cases. | 这是事实陈述,中国已在许多案件中禁止密码货币。 |
| 690 | So given | 所以说 |
| 691 | a lot of this context, I guess there are sort of two questions that would be good to address. | 有很多这样的背景, 我想有两个问题可以解决。 |
| 692 | The first is, what do you think the reason for this sort of crackdown is? | 第一,你认为这种镇压的原因是什么? |
| 693 | Do you think part of it | 你认为它的一部分 |
| 694 | is the idea that cryptocurrency is associated with black market, illegal or shady dealings? | 密码货币是否与黑市、非法或可疑的交易有关? |
| 695 | And the second is, what do you think is necessary to persuade governments, in your view, | 第二,你认为需要什么来说服政府, |
| 696 | to turn to cryptocurrency? | 转换为密码货币? |
| 697 | Because it takes a lot for a government to go like, hey, give up control | 因为政府要放弃控制 需要很多时间 |
| 698 | over your debt and give up control over interest rates. | 放弃对利率的控制 |
| 699 | You will no longer be able to control the | 你将无法再控制 |
| 700 | money supply in your own country. | 国家货币供应。 |
| 701 | So what do you think it takes? | 你觉得需要什么? |
| 702 | And what do you say to those who | 你对那些 |
| 703 | say the first bit of issues? | 说第一个问题? |
| 704 | Sure. | 当然 |
| 705 | There's quite a bit of information there. | 有很多信息。 |
| 706 | I'm sorry. | 对不起 |
| 707 | It's okay. | 没关系。 |
| 708 | I think, first of all, the less coverage of crypto may actually be a good thing. | 我想,首先, 隐蔽的覆盖面越少, 可能是件好事。 |
| 709 | When technology | 当技术 |
| 710 | becomes boring, there's no coverage on internet today. | 变得无聊,今天互联网上没有报道。 |
| 711 | We don't talk about internet, TCP, IP, | 我们不谈互联网,TCP,IP, |
| 712 | Google made a new protocol that goes on UDP. | Google在UDP上做了一个新的协议. |
| 713 | I actually forgot the name because nobody talks | 其实我忘了名字,因为没人说话 |
| 714 | about it. | 关于它。 |
| 715 | It's like a fundamental layer now. | 这就像一个基础层了。 |
| 716 | We don't talk about roads, et cetera, et cetera. | 我们不谈公路,等等,等等。 |
| 717 | So we just kind of take them for granted. | 所以我们就把他们视为理所当然。 |
| 718 | It's great when we take them for granted because that | 这很好,当我们把他们视为理所当然的,因为 |
| 719 | becomes a fundamental infrastructure. | 成为基本的基础设施。 |
| 720 | Crypto is not quite there yet, but it's getting there. | 密码还没到 但它已经到了 |
| 721 | Now there's a very high level of acceptance on stablecoins. | 现在对马厩币的接受程度非常高. |
| 722 | And people kind of know bitcoins | 人们会懂比特币 |
| 723 | there. | 这里 |
| 724 | They kind of accept as it is. | 他们同意了 |
| 725 | So there's less excitement in some way. | 因此,在某些方面,兴奋度较低. |
| 726 | The other parallel | 另一个平行 |
| 727 | factor is AI is the new shining object. | 系数是 AI 是新的闪光对象。 |
| 728 | So everyone's focused on AI and just getting a | 所以每个人都专注于AI 和刚刚得到一个 |
| 729 | lot of coverage. | 有很多报道 |
| 730 | And that's also good. | 也不错 |
| 731 | So I think just the less coverage, less discussions in the | 所以,我认为只是少 覆盖,讨论在 |
| 732 | media, that's not a bad thing. | 媒体,这不是一件坏事。 |
| 733 | That doesn't mean negative or people losing interest. | 这并不意味着负面 或人们失去兴趣。 |
| 734 | It's just | 这只是 |
| 735 | becoming more mainstream, a bit more boring. | 越来越主流, 有点无聊。 |
| 736 | Boring means normal. | 无聊是正常的 |
| 737 | So that's actually good | 所以这其实很好 |
| 738 | for crypto. | 为密码。 |
| 739 | For the country adoption, many countries have many different considerations. | 就国家收养而言,许多国家有许多不同的考虑。 |
| 740 | US now basically realized that crypto is actually, stablecoin is actually one of the best ways for | 美国现在基本上意识到 密码其实是, 稳定币实际上是最好的方法之一 |
| 741 | people to buy US treasuries. | 人们买美国国库。 |
| 742 | 你买USDT或USDC或USD1,他们拿钱买美国 | |
| 743 | treasuries. | 财库. |
| 744 | Why wouldn't the country want that? | 国家为什么不想要呢? |
| 745 | And that's just treasury part. | 而这只是国库的一部分。 |
| 746 | And then the second | 然后第二个 |
| 747 | part is now in crypto, 99% of the stablecoins are US dollar backed. | 99%的马币是美元支持的。 |
| 748 | This actually increases the dollar | 这实际上增加了美元 |
| 749 | influence globally. | 影响全球。 |
| 750 | Again, that's something that the dollar had already, but now it's further | 再说一遍,这是美元已经存在的东西, 但现在它更进一步了 |
| 751 | expanded. | 扩大。 |
| 752 | I can talk from my own understanding about China. | 我可以从我自己对中国的理解中谈起. |
| 753 | Let me generalize a little bit. | 让我概括一下 |
| 754 | Let's talk about just countries in general. | 让我们谈谈一般国家。 |
| 755 | Many countries have a capital controls. | 许多国家实行资本管制。 |
| 756 | So they kind | 所以他们喜欢 |
| 757 | of want to prevent their own money from flowing out. | 不想让自己的钱流出来 |
| 758 | That's fine. | 没关系 |
| 759 | That's a decision that every | 这是一个决定,每一个 |
| 760 | country can make right now. | 国家现在可以做到。 |
| 761 | US doesn't have that. | 美国没有 |
| 762 | Many countries don't have that. | 很多国家没有这个。 |
| 763 | Many large | 许多大 |
| 764 | economies actually don't have that. | 经济实际上没有。 |
| 765 | And when you have controls for money going out, it's also very | 当你控制了资金外出, 这也是非常 |
| 766 | hard to get money in. | 很难得到钱英寸 |
| 767 | Because now the foreign direct investment will be like, wait, if I make | 因为现在的外国直接投资 将像,等待,如果我做 |
| 768 | money, how can I get it out? | 钱,我怎么弄出来? |
| 769 | It's just a more troublesome process. | 这只是一个更麻烦的过程。 |
| 770 | You can still do it, | 你仍然可以做到这一点, |
| 771 | but the process is longer. | 但是这个过程会更长 |
| 772 | So again, less freedom. | 再说一遍 自由度降低 |
| 773 | So you actually limit the amount of | 所以你实际上限制 |
| 774 | investments in. | 投资。 |
| 775 | China actually specifically wants RMB to be the global dominant currency. | 中国实际上特别希望人民币成为全球的主流货币. |
| 776 | I think | 我觉得 |
| 777 | pretty clear about those intentions. | 非常清楚这些意图。 |
| 778 | But at the same time, only 4% of the RMB is offshore. | 但与此同时,只有4%的人民币在境外. |
| 779 | It's going to be pretty hard to become the global dominant currency with only 4% of your | 很难成为全球主流货币 只有4%的你 |
| 780 | supply offshore. | 海上供应。 |
| 781 | Again, US dollar does not have this limitation. | 同样,美元没有这种限制。 |
| 782 | And then if you throw crypto in | 如果你把密码扔进去 |
| 783 | there, it's kind of hard for them to balance that. | 那里,他们很难平衡 |
| 784 | I don't know what the answer is. | 我不知道答案是什么。 |
| 785 | Just | 刚刚 |
| 786 | different countries have different problems to solve. | 不同国家有不同的问题需要解决。 |
| 787 | So there's nothing right or wrong about it. | 故无对无对. |
| 788 | So some countries are taking a much more cautious approach. | 因此,一些国家正在采取更加谨慎的做法。 |
| 789 | I think for China, | 我认为中国, |
| 790 | they kind of view Hong Kong as a sandbox. | 他们把香港看成沙盒 |
| 791 | Hong Kongs have two stable coins now | 香港现在有两枚稳定硬币 |
| 792 | by, I believe, standard charters and HSBC. | 我相信是标准章程和汇丰银行 |
| 793 | Both are old school traditional banks. | 两者都是老式学校传统银行. |
| 794 | So yeah, they are experimenting. | 所以,他们正在试验。 |
| 795 | Again, also in China specifically, China is a very large country | 同样,在中国,中国也是一个大国 |
| 796 | and everyone's very active. | 大家都很活跃 |
| 797 | Last year, they said, okay, they're going to open up | 去年,他们说,好吧,他们会打开 |
| 798 | and Hong Kong is going to promote stable coins. | 香港将推广稳定硬币 |
| 799 | Everyone got really excited. | 大家都很兴奋 |
| 800 | And then they had to sort of try to temper the excitement a little bit. | 然后他们不得不尝试 放松一下兴奋。 |
| 801 | But it's a big country. | 却为大国土. |
| 802 | So big countries, they have to make policies that are slightly more black and white. | 如此庞大的国家,它们必须制定略微增加黑白的政策. |
| 803 | Small countries can say, okay, we're flexible. | 小国可以说,好吧,我们是灵活的。 |
| 804 | We're just a very small country. | 我们只是一个非常小的国家。 |
| 805 | So the country | 所以这个国家 |
| 806 | only have 300,000 population. | 只有30万人口。 |
| 807 | You can say, okay, we're open. | 你可以说,好吧,我们开放。 |
| 808 | You can do anything you want, | 你可以做任何你想做的东西, |
| 809 | but we'll just check each one. | 但是我们会检查每一个。 |
| 810 | So there's probably, I don't know, a thousand startup projects there. | 所以,也许,我不知道, 一千个启动项目在那里。 |
| 811 | They can just look at each one. | 他们可以只看每个。 |
| 812 | A country like China, if you make a policy that you can go, | 一个像中国这样的国家, 如果你做出一个可以去的政策, |
| 813 | they'll be like, no, there'll be 10 million projects. | 他们会像,不, 有1000万项目。 |
| 814 | And they are going to be scammers. | 他们将会是骗子。 |
| 815 | They are going to be bad players. | 他们会是坏球员。 |
| 816 | They are people who cause problems and it's very hard to control. | 他们是制造问题的人 很难控制 |
| 817 | So they kind of have to make rules more black and white. | 因此,他们必须使规则更加黑白。 |
| 818 | So big countries move slower and they have | 所以大国走得比较慢,而且它们有 |
| 819 | to be more cautious. | 更谨慎 |
| 820 | And those are valid reasons. | 这些都是合理的理由。 |
| 821 | So this is not to say that they are less good or | 所以,这不是说 他们的好或 |
| 822 | something. | 东西。 |
| 823 | It's just that they have a different problem to deal with. | 只是他们有不同的问题要处理 |
| 824 | So I do think that every | 所以我认为,每一个 |
| 825 | country is looking at crypto in a lot of detail. | 国家正在仔细研究密码 |
| 826 | And I think every country will have to adopt | 我想每个国家都得接受 |
| 827 | crypto in one form or another sooner or later. | 早晚以某种形式加密。 |
| 828 | So your view is that even though there are these | 所以,你的看法是,尽管有这些 |
| 829 | quite large challenges, the countries of the world will eventually be persuaded in one way or another | 相当巨大的挑战,世界各国最终会以某种方式被说服 |
| 830 | to adopt cryptos basically. | 基本上通过密码。 |
| 831 | I think so. | 我想是这样。 |
| 832 | It's basically like, look, a country cannot refuse | 这基本上就像,你看,一个国家不能拒绝 |
| 833 | to adopt internet. | 通过互联网。 |
| 834 | They cannot refuse to adopt AI. | 他们不能拒绝接受大赦国际。 |
| 835 | If you do not adopt those things, then you | 如果你不采纳那些东西,那么你 |
| 836 | become less efficient over time. | 随着时间的推移,效率降低。 |
| 837 | And in my life, I think there's three fundamental technologies. | 在我的生活中,我认为有三个基本技术。 |
| 838 | There's internet, blockchain, and AI. | 还有互联网 断层链 还有AI |
| 839 | So they can't miss that middle one. | 所以他们不能错过中间那个 |
该视频共有字幕 839 条。解锁更多字幕为会员功能，请移动到 价格