爆满 4000 人！奥巴马柯尔盖特大学重磅专访：民主从来不是
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:08 | Good evening and welcome to Colgate University in beautiful Hamilton, New | 晚上好,欢迎来到科尔盖特大学 美丽的汉密尔顿,纽 |
| 0:14 | York. | 约克 |
| 0:16 | Yeah, Hamilton, New York deserves an applause line and welcome to tonight's | 是的,汉密尔顿,纽约 值得掌声,欢迎今晚 |
| 0:24 | edition of the Kirchner family global leaders series. | Kirchner家族全球领袖系列的版本。 |
| 0:28 | Through this series made | 通过这个系列 |
| 0:30 | possible by the Kirchner family and the Parents Fund, Colgate has welcomed a | 科尔盖特欢迎您加入 |
| 0:35 | remarkable array of men and women in the arts, in politics, and from the | 在艺术、政治、 |
| 0:41 | Academy. | 学院. |
| 0:42 | And of course tonight we're going to welcome one of the most | 当然,今晚我们将欢迎其中一位 |
| 0:45 | consequential figures of the 21st century, not just in the United States, | 21世纪的相应数字 不仅仅是在美国 |
展开字幕全文（786 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Good evening and welcome to Colgate University in beautiful Hamilton, New | 晚上好,欢迎来到科尔盖特大学 美丽的汉密尔顿,纽 |
| 2 | York. | 约克 |
| 3 | Yeah, Hamilton, New York deserves an applause line and welcome to tonight's | 是的,汉密尔顿,纽约 值得掌声,欢迎今晚 |
| 4 | edition of the Kirchner family global leaders series. | Kirchner家族全球领袖系列的版本。 |
| 5 | Through this series made | 通过这个系列 |
| 6 | possible by the Kirchner family and the Parents Fund, Colgate has welcomed a | 科尔盖特欢迎您加入 |
| 7 | remarkable array of men and women in the arts, in politics, and from the | 在艺术、政治、 |
| 8 | Academy. | 学院. |
| 9 | And of course tonight we're going to welcome one of the most | 当然,今晚我们将欢迎其中一位 |
| 10 | consequential figures of the 21st century, not just in the United States, | 21世纪的相应数字 不仅仅是在美国 |
| 11 | but around the world. | 但环游世界 |
| 12 | It's a rare thing to be able to say tonight's guest needs | 很难说今晚的客人需要什么 |
| 13 | no introduction. | 无介绍。 |
| 14 | Tonight's guest needs no introduction, so without further ado | 今晚的客人不需要介绍 所以不用再多说了 |
| 15 | please welcome to the stage President Barack Obama. | 请欢迎巴拉克·奥巴马总统登台 |
| 16 | I don't want to milk this too much. | 我不想挤太多 |
| 17 | It is good to see you Colgate and whoever was in | 很高兴见到你和科尔盖特 |
| 18 | charge of arranging the weather, good job, but I am not fooled. | 负责安排天气,好工作, 但我没有被愚弄。 |
| 19 | I know it's | 我知道这是 |
| 20 | gonna get a little colder around here. | 这里会冷一点 |
| 21 | Not for a while, we're good, we're good. | 没有一段时间,我们很好,我们很好。 |
| 22 | Welcome to Colgate Mr. President. | 欢迎来到科尔盖特先生 |
| 23 | Thank you so much Mr. President, it's great to | 非常感谢,总统先生,很高兴 |
| 24 | see you. | 再见 |
| 25 | Now that we've established parity I think we can begin the | 既然我们建立了平等 我想我们可以开始 |
| 26 | conversation. | 谈话。 |
| 27 | I have to say we're gonna have an hour together in which we're | 我不得不说,我们将有一个小时 在一起,我们是在 |
| 28 | going to talk about a number of topics. | 讨论一些话题 |
| 29 | This is true. | 这是真的。 |
| 30 | This is true, but what I | 这是真的,但我 |
| 31 | have to say is ever since we announced that you were coming, the one question | 不得不说,自从我们宣布你来以后 只有一个问题 |
| 32 | that has come at me as I walk across the campus, the one question everybody wants | 我走过校园时,我遇到了一个问题 每个人都想问 |
| 33 | to answer, so I might as well open up with the first question which is how's | 所以,我不妨打开 第一个问题,这是如何 |
| 34 | Michelle Obama? | 米歇尔・奥巴马? |
| 35 | Well, listen, I understand I'm your second choice. | 好吧,听着,我知道我是你的第二个选择。 |
| 36 | 我了解,我记得 I get it. | |
| 37 | In the | 在那个 |
| 38 | popularity rankings in the Obama household I am the last, so I am where it | 奥巴马家族的流行排名 我是最后一位 所以我就在那里 |
| 39 | met. | 见过 |
| 40 | This was a tough week, some people are aware, we lost our dog Sonny this | 这是一个艰难的一周, 有些人知道, 我们失去了我们的狗桑尼这个 |
| 41 | week, and we were talking about it backstage because you have an older dog | 一周,我们谈论它后台 因为你有一只老狗 |
| 42 | and I also know their parents here. | 我也认识他们的父母 |
| 43 | The connection you have with your pets | 你和宠物的关系 |
| 44 | obviously are really important. | 显然这很重要 |
| 45 | When they're pets that grew up with your kids, | 当它们和你的孩子们一起长大的时候 |
| 46 | then they're more than just, it's not just that you love them, they're the | 然后他们不只是, 不只是你爱他们,他们是 |
| 47 | with your children as they were growing up in the passage of time. | 和你的孩子们一起长大 |
| 48 | So that's | 这么说吧 |
| 49 | been a little tough on Michelle. | 对米歇尔有点苛刻 |
| 50 | Otherwise, though, she is living her best | 否则,虽然,她活得最好 |
| 51 | life and she is working with our foundation around empowering young | 她与我们的基金会合作 围绕增强年轻人的能力 |
| 52 | women and girls, she is doing a podcast and looking cute, and the fact that she | 妇女和女孩,她正在做播客 和看起来可爱,事实上她 |
| 53 | has not kicked me to the curb is I am grateful for. | 没有踢我到路边 我很感激。 |
| 54 | It's early. | 时早. |
| 55 | Well, it's not that early. | 没那么早 |
| 56 | I may | 我会的 |
| 57 | re-celebrate 35 years this year, so I feel like I'm at the stage where her | 今年再庆祝35年 所以我觉得自己在她的舞台上 |
| 58 | retraining another guy, not worth the effort. | 重新训练另一个家伙,不值得付出这个努力。 |
| 59 | She might as well just ride it | 她还是骑吧 |
| 60 | Well, I'm glad she's settling, and I think I should congratulate both of you on the | 嗯,我很高兴她正在定居 我想我应该祝贺你们俩 |
| 61 | opening of the Obama Center. | 奥巴马中心的开幕 |
| 62 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 63 | I will tell you, we were | 我会告诉你,我们曾经 |
| 64 | taking some some photographs backstage and a number of people had already gone | 拍了一些后台的照片 很多人已经走了 |
| 65 | to visit, and for those of you, if you get a chance in Chicago, I think you | 如果你有机会去芝加哥,我想你 |
| 66 | will enjoy it. | 将享受它。 |
| 67 | Because the story is, it's not really just the story about my | 因为故事是, 它真的不只是关于我的故事 |
| 68 | presidency, the museum tells a story about America, and the goal here is to | 总统,博物馆讲述了美国的故事 这里的目标是 |
| 69 | create a campus around which we can learn from each other about how to bring | 创建一个校园 我们可以互相学习如何带来 |
| 70 | about positive social change, and not just here in this country, but | 关于积极的社会变革, 不只是在这里 在这个国家, |
| 71 | internationally, and that's a lot of what our program is about. | 在国际上,这是很多 我们的方案是什么。 |
| 72 | Well, it seems very | 嗯,这似乎非常 |
| 73 | exciting. | 令人兴奋。 |
| 74 | It looks very beautiful, so you must be relieved and thrilled. | 它看起来非常美丽, 所以你必须解脱和激动。 |
| 75 | Well, you've been | 嗯,你已经 |
| 76 | through capital campaigns. | 通过资本运动。 |
| 77 | Oh, yeah. | 对 |
| 78 | Yeah, they're a lot better when you're done on, | 是的,他们好多了 当你完成, |
| 79 | when you're on the other side. | 当于彼时. |
| 80 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 81 | I'm looking forward to that day. | 我期待着那一天。 |
| 82 | So the first | 所以第一个 |
| 83 | couple questions I have, I would like to invite you to just reflect on your | 我有几个问题,我想请您考虑一下 |
| 84 | presidency and your time there. | 以及你在那里的时间。 |
| 85 | So before you became president of the United States, you taught | 在你成为美国总统之前 你教过 |
| 86 | constitutional law at the University of Chicago, you were a community organizer, you were a | 芝加哥大学的宪法法 你是社区组织者 你是 |
| 87 | U.S. | 美国. |
| 88 | Senator, you also were in the Illinois House. | 参议员,你也在伊利诺伊州大厦 |
| 89 | So in all of those | 所以在所有这些 |
| 90 | positions, you start learning about America, and you build conceptions of | 位置,你开始学习 美国,你构思 |
| 91 | what America is and what Americans are like, but the presidency must reveal | 美国是什么 美国人是什么 但总统必须揭发 |
| 92 | something about the nation and its people that all those other positions | 关于国家及其人民的一切其他立场 |
| 93 | wouldn't have shown you. | 不会告诉你。 |
| 94 | So for like good or ill, what did that seat show you about the | 所以,无论好坏,那座椅是什么让你看到 |
| 95 | nation and its people? | 国家及其人民? |
| 96 | It's a great question. | 问曰. |
| 97 | I'd preface it by saying this. | 我会用这个来做序语 |
| 98 | I had the | 我有这个 |
| 99 | advantage of serving in the Illinois Senate for a while, and Illinois is an | 在伊利诺伊州参议院任职一段时间的好处,伊利诺伊州是一个 |
| 100 | interesting state because demographically, it's about as representative of America as any | 有趣的状态,因为从人口统计学上来说, 它和任何美国的代表性 |
| 101 | state. | 状态。 |
| 102 | It's not just, doesn't just reflect sort of the racial makeup of the country, but it's | 这不仅仅是,不 仅仅反映 某种种族化妆的国家, |
| 103 | also urban and rural, and it's north and south. | 也是城市和农村, 并且它的南北。 |
| 104 | If you go to southern Illinois, it's much | 如果你去伊利诺伊州南部,那就太多了 |
| 105 | closer to Kentucky than it is to Chicago, culturally as well as geographically. | 更接近肯塔基州 而不是芝加哥 文化上和地理上 |
| 106 | So spending time | 所以花点时间 |
| 107 | in the state legislature there, you're meeting folks from the inner city, but you're also | 在州立法机构里,你正在和 内城的人见面,但你也是 |
| 108 | meeting hog farmers and bean farmers, and you're getting a sense of the diversity of the | 遇见猪和豆农, 你得到一种 多样性 |
| 109 | country. | 国家。 |
| 110 | And campaigning, partly because I had such a long primary, which was, you know, at the | 竞选活动,部分是因为我有这么长的小学, 你知道,在 |
| 111 | time, I won't say I was thrilled with grinding it out for 18 months, but it did have the | 时间,我不会说我很高兴 磨出来18个月,但它确实有 |
| 112 | benefit of me campaigning in every state, which is rare, because these days things get so | 我在每个州竞选都有好处 这是罕见的 因为现在事情变得如此 |
| 113 | divided, that's a red state, that's a blue state. | 分裂,即红州,即蓝州. |
| 114 | We really went everywhere, Idaho and Mississippi, | 爱达荷州和密西西比州 |
| 115 | and I think the only state we didn't go to was Alaska during the campaign. | 我想我们唯一没有去的州 是阿拉斯加竞选期间 |
| 116 | So I had gotten a | 所以我得到了一个 |
| 117 | sense of what the country was like from that process, and going into the presidency, my | 感受这个国家从那个过程中, 进入总统,我的 |
| 118 | conclusion has always been, and it was affirmed, this is a really big country, it's really | 结论一直是,它得到了肯定, 这是一个真正的大国,它真的 |
| 119 | complicated. | 复杂 |
| 120 | You've got people whose ancestry is rooted in every corner of the globe. | 汝等有众生缘起根於世间一切处. |
| 121 | There is a certain optimism, a certain character of neighborliness. | 有一种一定的乐观,某种的邻里性格. |
| 122 | The thing that strikes you when you travel around the country is that | 周游全国时最让你震惊的是 |
| 123 | we are not as divided as our politics or our media would suggest. | 我们没有像我们的政治或媒体所暗示的那样分裂。 |
| 124 | Now, that's a problem | 现在,这是个问题 |
| 125 | structurally. | 结构上。 |
| 126 | There are reasons why our politics divides us, whether it's gerrymandering or | 我们的政治分裂是有原因的, 不管它是宝石还是 |
| 127 | unrestricted campaign spending and negative ads, and there's also structural reasons why the media | 媒体的无限制的竞选开支和负面广告 也有结构性的原因 |
| 128 | divides us, because in this social media world now we're all siloed off and we each are pushed | 因为在这个社交媒体世界里 我们都被孤立了,我们各自被推倒 |
| 129 | towards a very particular vision of the world, often fed by fear, that makes us mistrust each other. | 走向一个非常特别的世界观,往往以恐惧为食,使我们彼此不信任。 |
| 130 | But when you're on the ground, what's striking is that I remember the first time I started | 但当你在地面上时 令人惊讶的是 我记得我第一次开始 |
| 131 | campaigning in Iowa, and look, there is a lot of corn there. | 爱荷华州的竞选活动 看 那里有很多玉米 |
| 132 | That stereotype is true, but you'll go | 陈规定型是真的,但你会去的 |
| 133 | into a rural community in Iowa and discover that here's a town that was founded by | 进入爱荷华州的一个农村社区 发现这里有个镇子是由 |
| 134 | hippies, and there's an orthodox community, a Jewish community living side by side | 嬉皮士,还有一个正统社区, 一个犹太社区 并肩生活 |
| 135 | with a bunch of farmers, and people work together, and they extend grace towards each other in ways | 和一群农民, 人们一起工作, 他们互相恩惠的方式 |
| 136 | that you do not see in your doom scrolling. | 在你的末日里,你们没有看见什么。 |
| 137 | And so that, I think, was something that I | 所以,我认为,这是一件我 |
| 138 | came to appreciate even more when I was in office. | 我上任时就更加感激你了 |
| 139 | Just two other things I would say | 我只说两件事 |
| 140 | are worth noting, and this has less to do with the American people than | 这是值得注意的, 这与美国人民没有关系 比 |
| 141 | the role of America, the vantage point that you get. | 美国的角色, 你得到的优势点。 |
| 142 | The first is that our government is | 第一,我们的政府 |
| 143 | vast, and our system of government is deliberately set up to decentralize power. | 我们的政府体制是有意为权力的分散而建立的。 |
| 144 | It is very hard to make that thing work | 这件事很难办到 |
| 145 | if you have the levels of mistrust that we currently have in our system, particularly | 如果你的不信任程度 与我们系统,特别是 |
| 146 | between the parties. | 在双方之间。 |
| 147 | And the other thing that is striking is the degree to which | 另一件令人惊讶的事是... |
| 148 | America up until recently really did underwrite the global order | 美国直到最近才真正维护了全球秩序 |
| 149 | in ways that you sort of understand, but it's not until you get into the office that you realize | 但直到你进入办公室 你才意识到 |
| 150 | so much of what we take for granted about freedom of navigation or | 我们认为航行自由是理所当然的 |
| 151 | the global nature of the internet, or how do we respond when there's a natural disaster somewhere | 互联网的全球性质, 或者我们如何应对 当有自然灾害的地方 |
| 152 | in the world, or how do we set an agenda to deal with certain security issues. | 或我们如何制定处理某些安全问题的议程。 |
| 153 | Even our adversaries | 甚至我们的对手 |
| 154 | that's something we should be proud of, but it's also something that we should | 这也是我们应该骄傲的 |
| 155 | feel some responsibility for, because when we don't get things right, | 感觉一些责任, 因为当我们不正确的事情, |
| 156 | when we're not our best selves, the whole world gets a little dimmer. | 当我们不是我们最好的自己, 整个世界会变得有点沉闷。 |
| 157 | And when we stand up for | 当我们站起来 |
| 158 | values like human rights or freedom of speech or | 人权、言论自由或 |
| 159 | you know express concern and are proactive around issues like climate change, | 你知道,对气候变化之类的问题 表示关心和积极主动, |
| 160 | then not everybody goes along a hundred percent, but the world leans into a better direction. | 但世界会走向一个更好的方向。 |
| 161 | I want to pick up on something you're talking about. | 我想接听你说的 |
| 162 | The American people gave you a sense of | 美国人民给了你一种 |
| 163 | working these days. | 这些天都在工作 |
| 164 | The president of the United States in some ways sets the emotional weather | 美国总统以某种方式决定了情绪的天气 |
| 165 | for the nation. | 为了国家。 |
| 166 | An optimistic president can be an optimistic, can create a sense of optimism, | 一个乐观的总统可以是一个乐观的, 可以创造一种乐观的感觉, |
| 167 | not only around that president, about the nation, but I just want to pick up something. | 不仅在总统身边,关于国家, 我只想拿些东西。 |
| 168 | How the world sees the United States can be driven by the behavior of the president. | 世界如何看待美国,可以被总统的行为所驱使. |
| 169 | What you honor, what you dignify, what you derive, | 你所尊崇的,你所尊崇的,你所得的, |
| 170 | what you notice, what you don't notice. | 你注意到的,你没有注意到的。 |
| 171 | When did you feel that when you came into the office? | 你什么时候来办公室的? |
| 172 | What did you do with that responsibility, that power? | 你做了什么 责任,权力? |
| 173 | Was it a heavy thing to carry? | 携带起来很重吗? |
| 174 | You know, I had certain expectations for myself in terms of how I was going to conduct myself | 你知道,我对我自己有 一定的期望,我如何做自己 |
| 175 | in office. | 现职. |
| 176 | I didn't find it that hard because they were the expectations I had for myself in | 我并不觉得这很难 因为它们是我对自己的期望 |
| 177 | terms of how I acted as a grown man. | 关于我如何作为一个成年人的行为。 |
| 178 | So, you know, like, you know, basic behavior, honesty, | 所以,你知道,就像,你知道, 基本的行为,诚实, |
| 179 | hard work, doing your homework, treating people with respect. | 努力工作 做功课 尊重别人 |
| 180 | So I didn't find it to be a strain. | 所以我不觉得这很紧张 |
| 181 | There are certain moments in the presidency. | 在主席职位上有某些时间。 |
| 182 | Let's take, for example, disasters. | 以灾为例. |
| 183 | I remember there was a series of tornadoes I think in | 我记得有一系列龙卷风 我想到 |
| 184 | 2011, 12, and Missouri got hit and then later Alabama got hit. | 2011年,12号,密苏里州被击中,后来阿拉巴马州被击中. |
| 185 | And you'd go as president | 你会去当总统 |
| 186 | to places where nobody voted for you. | 去没人投你票的地方 |
| 187 | You'd see, or at least didn't vote for me because you'd see | 你会看到,或者至少没有投给我 因为你会看到 |
| 188 | Confederate flags on the trucks. | 卡车上的邦联旗帜 |
| 189 | But you know what? | 但你知道吗? |
| 190 | When you showed up and somebody had lost | 当你出现时 有人迷路了 |
| 191 | their home or they had lost their lives and you gave them a hug and you listened to them and you | 他们的家或者他们失去了生命 你给了他们一个拥抱 你听了他们和你 |
| 192 | said, you know, I see you and what you're going through and the country's here to help. | 说,你知道,我看到你 和你正在经历什么 和国家在这里帮助。 |
| 193 | The | 那个 |
| 194 | political stuff went away, right? | 政治方面的东西消失了,对吧? |
| 195 | It got stripped away. | 它被剥了 |
| 196 | And now there was a very basic sense of | 现在有一种非常基本的感觉 |
| 197 | we look out for each other. | 我们互相照顾 |
| 198 | And that was a powerful moment. | 这是一个强大的时刻。 |
| 199 | And so you'd go through | 所以你会经历 |
| 200 | times where this was particularly important, obviously as commander in chief, for example. | 比如说作为总司令 |
| 201 | I remember there was a terrible incident in which a bunch of U.S. service members had been killed | 我记得发生了一起可怕的事件 一群美国军人被杀了 |
| 202 | and intelligence officers had been killed in one event. | 情报人员在一次事件中被杀。 |
| 203 | And I flew to Dover | 我飞到多佛 |
| 204 | and the plane came in and there's what's called a dignified transfer. | 飞机进来了,这叫做体面的转移。 |
| 205 | The caskets are | 这些棺材是 |
| 206 | offloaded from the military plane. | 从军机卸载。 |
| 207 | And generally the president during wartime isn't visiting all | 一般来说,战争时期的总统 不是所有的人 |
| 208 | time. | 时间。 |
| 209 | But on this particular occasion, I decided to go up and we stood there. | 但在这个特殊的时刻,我决定上去,我们站在那里。 |
| 210 | And it's a remarkable, | 这是很了不起的, |
| 211 | solemn, deeply moving ceremony because it's just quiet. | 庄严的,深刻的感动仪式,因为它只是安静的. |
| 212 | And myself, I think Attorney General | 还有我自己,我觉得总检察长 |
| 213 | Holder was there and you hold the salute. | 霍尔德在那里,你拿着礼服。 |
| 214 | These are caskets that are draped with the American flag. | 这些是用美国国旗画的棺材. |
| 215 | And you hold the salute there. | 举起手来 |
| 216 | And it took, because of the tragedy, the number of people | 由于这场悲剧,我们花了这么多人 |
| 217 | who had been killed, we stood there for an hour or so. | 我们在那里站了一个小时左右。 |
| 218 | No speeches, no commentary. | 没有演讲,没有评论。 |
| 219 | It was just, | 这只是, |
| 220 | again, a signal of what is important and the sacrifices that have been made. | 再次表明什么是重要的和已经作出的牺牲。 |
| 221 | And it's interesting how later on you'd see certain service members who, again, weren't | 有趣的是,以后你会看到 某些服务成员,再次,谁不是 |
| 222 | big Obama fans, but they would notice that. | 大奥巴马的粉丝,但他们会注意到这一点。 |
| 223 | And sometimes they'd come up and say, | 有时他们会说, |
| 224 | I didn't vote for you, but that meant a lot to me. | 我没有投你票,但这对我很重要。 |
| 225 | So you're constantly, I think, in that office | 所以,我想你一直在办公室里 |
| 226 | trying to signify who are we and try to exhibit some of our best selves. | 试图表示我们是谁 并尝试展示一些我们最好的自我。 |
| 227 | Now, when I first came | 我第一次来的时候 |
| 228 | into office, the last point I'd make about this, you guys will remember there was quite a bit of | 进入办公室,我最后想说的是, 你们会记得有相当一点 |
| 229 | and I was very sensitive to not play into the celebrity aspects of the presidency. | 我非常敏感 不玩 的名人方面 总统。 |
| 230 | Because we were also going through an unprecedented financial crisis. | 因为我们正经历一场前所未有的金融危机。 |
| 231 | We had two wars going on. | 我们有过两次战争 |
| 232 | And so I spent my first year really just focused on policy and had kind of a lunch pail attitude. | 于是我花了第一年的时间 专注于政策, 并有某种午餐桶的态度。 |
| 233 | I did not want to be a show horse. | 我不想成为一匹表演马。 |
| 234 | I wanted to be a workhorse. | 我想成为一只工作马。 |
| 235 | And the country benefited from | 这个国家从 |
| 236 | our focus and we had a lot of really great people in the administration and we got a lot done. | 我们的焦点,我们有很多 真正的伟大的人 在行政部门,我们做了很多。 |
| 237 | But what I came to realize, partly because we got clobbered in a midterm, because unemployment was | 但是,我终于意识到, 部分是因为我们在一个中期 被抽打,因为失业 |
| 238 | 10% the fallout from the financial crisis, part of my job was, in fact, to tell stories | 10%的金融危机的后果, 我工作的一部分,事实上,讲故事 |
| 239 | about the country, to tell stories about how we manage adversity, how we treat each other. | 讲述我们如何应对逆境 如何对待对方 |
| 240 | There was a poetry that I think Governor Cuomo of New York once said, you campaign in poetry and | 有首诗 我想纽约州州长Cuomo曾经说过 你用诗歌和 |
| 241 | govern in prose, but in fact actually you have to govern with a little bit of poetry as well. | 但实际上你也必须用一些诗歌来管理 |
| 242 | You have to be able to | 你必须能够 |
| 243 | inspire people because a lot of the issues that we work on are hard. | 激励人们,因为我们处理的许多问题很困难。 |
| 244 | And people get discouraged and progress can be slower than I think most folks want. | 人们感到沮丧,进步的速度可能比大多数人想要的要慢。 |
| 245 | Well, speaking of a challenge right now, you're on a campus and we are wrestling with what AI is, | 说到挑战 你现在在校园里 我们跟AI是怎样的 |
| 246 | what it means on a campus. | 在校园里是什么意思? |
| 247 | You have recently, just this week even, you've been speaking about AI. | 你最近,就这周, 你一直在谈论AI。 |
| 248 | And I'm trying to remember where I saw it, but you had said perhaps the greatest risk of AI, | 我试图记住我在哪里看到它, 但你曾说也许最大的风险AI, |
| 249 | and by the way, you acknowledge what good it could bring to us in science and medicine. | 顺便说一句,你承认它能给我们带来什么 科学和医学的好处。 |
| 250 | You're very clear about that. | 你很清楚这一点。 |
| 251 | But you identified a particular risk which was to have this tool | 但你发现了一种特殊的风险 就是拥有这个工具 |
| 252 | that is changing by the day, to have this tool in the hands of a very small number | 日复一日地改变着这个工具 在极少数人手中 |
| 253 | of private companies. | 私人企业。 |
| 254 | That presents a quite specific risk. | 这是一种非常具体的风险。 |
| 255 | How do you address that risk | 你怎么应对这种风险 |
| 256 | in a democracy? | 在一个民主国家? |
| 257 | What's the democratic... | 什么是民主的... |
| 258 | I can imagine what an autocratic response would be. | 我能想象到什么是专制的反应。 |
| 259 | This is ours. | 这是我们的。 |
| 260 | What is the democratic response to a tool, a power that we don't know what it is? | 对于一个工具,一个我们不知道它是什么的力量,民主的反应是什么? |
| 261 | Again, I really think in our culture, in our system, in our government, | 再说一遍,我真的认为 在我们的文化, 在我们的制度, 在我们的政府, |
| 262 | how do we regulate this or how do we address this? | 我们如何管理这一问题或如何解决这一问题? |
| 263 | Okay, settle in here. | 好吧,在这里安顿下来。 |
| 264 | I'm a former senator. | 我是前参议员 |
| 265 | This might feel like a filibuster. | 这可能感觉像一个虚构的。 |
| 266 | But I'm going to take some time on this, and I want to go a little deep on it, | 但我要花一些时间 并且我想深入一些, |
| 267 | partly because I am encouraged that this week, last couple of weeks, this has finally popped | 部分因为我受到鼓舞 这周,最后几周,终于出现了 |
| 268 | as a central issue. | 作为一个核心问题。 |
| 269 | People were talking about it. | 人们在谈论它。 |
| 270 | People were concerned about data centers. | 人们关注数据中心。 |
| 271 | But I don't think as a society, we fully grappled with how important | 但我不认为作为一个社会, 我们全力以赴地应对多么重要 |
| 272 | the choices we make around this will end up being over the next generation. | 我们的抉择最终会超越下一代 |
| 273 | So let me start with some basics. | 所以,让我从一些基本情况开始。 |
| 274 | I do not believe that this technology is overhyped. | 我不认为这种技术被过度夸张。 |
| 275 | The commercial benefits of it may be overhyped. | 其商业好处可能过于夸张。 |
| 276 | The valuations of AI companies may be overhyped. | AI公司的估值可能过于夸张. |
| 277 | The technology itself is not overhyped. | 技术本身并没有过度夸张。 |
| 278 | I've been tracking this for a long time. | 我已经追踪了很久 |
| 279 | In 2015-16, in the last couple of years of my presidency, I actually was focused on this, | 2015-16年,在我担任主席的最近几年里, 我实际上专注于这一点, |
| 280 | pulled together a commission of the best minds in this area to talk about not just the technology, | 召集了这个领域最优秀的智商 来谈论科技, |
| 281 | but also the political, social, economic, ethical concerns around this, produced a terrific report. | 以及政治、社会、经济、道德方面的关注, 产生了一份出色的报告。 |
| 282 | Apparently, it got put in the same bin as my pandemic proposal. | 显然,它被放进 与我的大流行建议相同的盒子。 |
| 283 | It wasn't picked up by the administration that followed me. | 跟踪我的人不是政府的人 |
| 284 | So we could see this coming, but part of what makes this profound is it accelerates. | 所以,我们可以预见到这一点, 但其中一部分 使这个深刻的是它加速。 |
| 285 | So | 这么说 |
| 286 | what is happening right now is we have reached this point of what's called recursive learning, | 现在发生的情况是,我们已经到了所谓的循环学习的地步, |
| 287 | where essentially — and we had anticipated this, but we're now seeing it — the machines | 基本上——我们本该预料到的,但我们现在看到——机器 |
| 288 | are starting to be able to teach themselves. | 开始可以自己教书了 |
| 289 | They don't have to wait for humans to start | 他们不用等人类开始 |
| 290 | figuring things out. | 找出问题 |
| 291 | And so if you think about it as — let's say humans are teachers and the AI | 所以,如果你把它当作——让我们假设人类是老师和AI |
| 292 | models are students. | 模特是学生 |
| 293 | As recently as, let's say, a year ago, 90 percent of the learning of these | 最近,比如说,一年前, 90%的学习这些 |
| 294 | models was given to them by the teacher, humans, and maybe 5 to 10 percent they could fill in some | 模特儿是老师和人类给他们的 也许有5%到10%的模特儿 |
| 295 | gaps and figure stuff out. | 找出漏洞和问题 |
| 296 | In less than a year, maybe even less than six months, we're now at a | 在不到一年,也许甚至不到六个月, 我们现在是一个 |
| 297 | stage where it's 50-50. | 舞台上是50到50岁 |
| 298 | And if the trend lines continue, the expectation is it might be 90-10. | 如果趋势线继续下去,预期可能是90-10。 |
| 299 | What this means is that we're now — if the learning track of AI has been like this, | 这意味着我们现在——如果AI的学习轨迹是这样的话, |
| 300 | we're now hitting the hockey stick trajectory, where the models are going to get smarter and | 我们现在要进入冰球棒的轨迹 模特们会变得更聪明 |
| 301 | smarter and better and better at a much faster pace, at an exponential pace. | 更聪明 更好 更快 指数化 |
| 302 | What are the risks | 风险是什么? |
| 303 | of that? | 那个? |
| 304 | There's the big science fiction risk of, wow, these guys, these models get smarter than us, | 科幻小说的风险很大 这些家伙 这些模特比我们聪明 |
| 305 | and they decide humans are fine, but not necessary. | 他们决定人类是好的,但没必要。 |
| 306 | They start setting their own goals, | 他们开始制定自己的目标, |
| 307 | and we — the killer robots, you know, kill us, or we bow down to them. | 我们——杀手机器人,你知道的,杀了我们,或者我们向他们鞠躬。 |
| 308 | I do not want to exaggerate that particular risk, but I will say there is a non-zero risk of | 我不想夸大这种特殊的风险,但我要说,存在着一种非零风险: |
| 309 | the — non-zero chance of that happening. | 发生这种情况的并非零机会。 |
| 310 | But that's not actually the risk that I'm | 但这不是我的风险 |
| 311 | most concerned about, although it's the risk that gets most attention. | 最关心的, 虽然这是最受关注的风险。 |
| 312 | And the reason that's a risk is not because the computer models are conscious, necessarily. | 风险的原因不是因为计算机模型是意识的,必然的。 |
| 313 | It | 这个 |
| 314 | doesn't mean that they are necessarily — feel malice towards humans. | 这并不意味着他们一定是—— 对人类抱有恶意。 |
| 315 | It's just that if they | 只是,如果他们 |
| 316 | start setting their own agendas, they — you may get a misalignment between what they want to do | 开始设定他们自己的议程,他们——你可能会在他们想要做的事情之间产生错位 |
| 317 | and what we want them to do, and that gap can be dangerous. | 以及我们希望他们做什么, 而这种差距可能是危险的。 |
| 318 | That's problem number one. | 这是第一个问题。 |
| 319 | The more serious problem is these models are getting powerful enough that if they get in | 更严重的问题是,这些模型已经足够强大了, 如果他们能进入 |
| 320 | the hands of bad humans, they can do bad things. | 坏人的手,他们可以做坏事。 |
| 321 | They can be weaponized in certain ways. | 它们可以在某些方面成为武器。 |
| 322 | They can | 他们可以 |
| 323 | do a lot of mischief. | 做很多恶作剧。 |
| 324 | So the classic example would be, we will be at a point, even if there | 因此,典型的例子是,我们将处于一个阶段,即使那里 |
| 325 | are certain safeguards around it, if we haven't done a good enough job in the safeguards, | 如果我们在保障措施方面做得不够好 |
| 326 | it's conceivable that somebody could take the equivalent of a future Claude or OpenAI and say, | 可以想象有人可以 采取相当于未来的克劳德或OpenAI 说, |
| 327 | I want to come up with a new strain of smallpox and release it in the New York subway system, | 我想想出一个新的天花菌株 并发布在纽约地铁系统, |
| 328 | show me how it's done using ingredients I can buy at Home Depot. | 让我看看如何用我在家里买的配料 |
| 329 | And the computer might figure it out. | 电脑可能会想出办法 |
| 330 | Or somebody might not even try to be that destructive, | 或者有人可能甚至没有尝试 如此破坏性, |
| 331 | but just say, hey, I want a program that maximizes my returns on investment in the stock market, | 但只要说,嘿,我想要一个程序 使我投资股市的回报最大化, |
| 332 | do whatever it takes. | 随其所为. |
| 333 | And if the instructions are illegal, don't worry about it. | 且指示如是非法,勿虑. |
| 334 | And suddenly | 突然间 |
| 335 | that could bring down the stock market. | 那会让股票市场崩溃 |
| 336 | So that's a much bigger danger. | 所以这是一个更大的危险。 |
| 337 | And if I said | 如果我说 |
| 338 | the danger of the first, sort of what's called the singularity and superintelligence taking over, | 那种所谓的奇异和超智能接管的危险 |
| 339 | if I say that's still a relatively small chance of that, there's a great likelihood | 如果我说那还是个很小的机会 那很有可能 |
| 340 | that rogue AI can cause a lot of havoc. | 那个无赖的人工智能 会造成很大的破坏 |
| 341 | Then you've got issues of job displacement, | 那你有工作调动的问题 |
| 342 | and there's debates about how many jobs are going to be displaced. | 并有争论 有多少工作 要流离失所。 |
| 343 | I will say this, | 我会说, |
| 344 | you and I are both lawyers, if I'm mistaken. | 你和我都是律师 如果我搞错了 |
| 345 | Currently, partners at law firms | 目前,律师事务所的合伙人 |
| 346 | rely on a bunch of junior associates. | 依赖一群初级律师 |
| 347 | They charge a lot of money for the time of those | 他们要花很多钱 |
| 348 | junior associates. | 初级律师。 |
| 349 | There's a pyramid. | 有一个金字塔。 |
| 350 | The promise to the associates is they work their way up and | 对合伙人的承诺是,他们努力提高 |
| 351 | at some point they'll be at the top of the pyramid and they can make some bank. | 在某个时候,他们会在金字塔的顶端 他们可以做一些银行。 |
| 352 | If you are investing in AI at a law firm and they're pretty expensive, the reason you're | 如果你在一家律师事务所投资AI, 而且它们很贵,你这样做的原因 |
| 353 | at the top of the pyramid is because you're at the top of the pyramid without those associates. | 在金字塔的顶部 因为你在金字塔的顶端 没有那些同伙 |
| 354 | And that's at a fairly high-skilled, highly trained job. | 这是一份相当高技能,训练有素的工作。 |
| 355 | So the economic disruptions that will come | 因此,经济的混乱将来临 |
| 356 | at this speed, I think, are going to be profound as well. | 以这种速度,我认为,也将是深刻的。 |
| 357 | And then finally you've got all kinds | 你终于有各种各样的 |
| 358 | of psychological issues like AI companions and the way I want a teddy bear who's becoming | 像AI同伴之类的心理问题 还有我想要的泰迪熊 |
| 359 | your kid's best friend and is trained to be as addictive as possible just like social media. | 你孩子的好朋友 被训练成像社交媒体一样上瘾 |
| 360 | So you've got all these issues. | 所以,你得到了所有这些问题。 |
| 361 | It's moving so fast that what happened over the last couple of | 动得如此之快 以至于最后几起事件 |
| 362 | weeks is that the leaders of what are called the frontier companies, the folks who are developing | 数周是所谓的前沿公司的领导人 正在发展的人 |
| 363 | the very cutting edge of these models, got scared enough themselves that they said, | 这些模特儿最尖端的一面 吓得自己都说 |
| 364 | you know what, we need to slow down. | 你知道吗,我们需要慢下来。 |
| 365 | 现在其中两家公司,Anthropic和 | |
| 366 | OpenAI, are about to launch massive IPOs that make all their employees | OpenAI,即将推出 大型IPO,使他们的所有员工 |
| 367 | 百万亿 billions. | |
| 368 | It is unprecedented for companies in that position to | 对处于这种地位的公司来说,这是前所未有的: |
| 369 | say, you know what, our stuff is a little bit dangerous and maybe we need to stop or slow it | 我们的东西有点危险 也许我们需要停下来或慢下来 |
| 370 | down. | 下来 |
| 371 | Not stop, but slow it down. | 不是停下来,而是慢下来。 |
| 372 | I say that because I think there are some people who think | 我这么说是因为我觉得有些人认为 |
| 373 | and understandably think, well, these tech companies, they might just be trying to block | 可以理解的是,这些科技公司 可能只是试图阻止 |
| 374 | out competition by saying we need to slow this down, et cetera. | 结束竞争,说我们需要 慢下来,等等。 |
| 375 | The mistrust of these big tech | 这些大科技的不信任 |
| 376 | companies and the amount of power that they have amassed, I understand. | 公司和他们积聚的力量,我理解 |
| 377 | I will say that in this | 我会说,在这个 |
| 378 | situation, they are genuinely worried about their product. | 他们确实担心自己的产品。 |
| 379 | All right. | 好吧,我们走。 |
| 380 | So now that I've got your | 所以,现在我得到了你的 |
| 381 | attention, the good news is that AI is a tool. | 注意,好消息是AI是一个工具。 |
| 382 | It's a machine. | 谓机曰. |
| 383 | It's built to give you the illusion | 是用来给你幻觉的 |
| 384 | that it's not, but it is. | 虽然不是,但它是。 |
| 385 | It's a really sophisticated, remarkable technology, but it should | 这是一个非常精密,卓越的技术,但它应该 |
| 386 | be thought of as a tool, which means we have choices in terms of how we use this. | 被视作一种工具, 这意味着我们有选择 我们如何使用这一点。 |
| 387 | And you're | 你却 |
| 388 | right. | 对 |
| 389 | If we use it properly, if we direct it at drug development to cure cancer, it could | 如果我们正确使用它,如果我们引导它 药物开发治疗癌症,它可以 |
| 390 | vastly accelerate our ability to rid the world of cancer. | 大大加快我们消除世界癌症的能力。 |
| 391 | If we train it and say, figure out | 如果我们训练它,说,想清楚 |
| 392 | zero carbon emission energy sources, it could come up with a safe formula for nuclear | 零碳排放能源, 它可以提出一个安全的核公式 |
| 393 | fusion that actually gives us much more plentiful energy without warming the planet. | 核聚变可以给我们更多的能量 而不给地球升温 |
| 394 | Really useful stuff. | 非常有用的东西。 |
| 395 | But if we get this wrong, it could be chaotic and potentially catastrophic. | 但如果我们搞错了,那可能是混乱和潜在的灾难。 |
| 396 | So | 这么说 |
| 397 | my view this week has been it is good that some of the leading companies have said, | 我本周的看法是 一些主要公司说 |
| 398 | we need to slow this down. | 我们需要放慢速度。 |
| 399 | And we should encourage that. | 我们应该鼓励这一点。 |
| 400 | There have been some on the left who've said | 左边有人说过 |
| 401 | we shouldn't allow them to make that decision. | 我们不应该让他们做那个决定 |
| 402 | I agree that that can't be a long-term solution. | 我同意,这不可能是长期的解决办法。 |
| 403 | Government has to be regulating this. | 政府必须对此加以管制。 |
| 404 | I heard one of Donald Trump's main advisors on this | 我听到唐纳德·特朗普的主要顾问说 |
| 405 | make the argument that the market will take care of it. | 提出市场会照顾它的论点。 |
| 406 | These companies will | 这些公司会 |
| 407 | solve the safety issues because they have every incentive to do so. | 解决安全问题是因为他们有这样做的一切动机。 |
| 408 | If it turns out to be dangerous, | 如果结果很危险的话 |
| 409 | people will just sue them and they're worried about financial liability. | 人们只会告他们 他们担心经济责任 |
| 410 | That's not how we treat airlines or drug companies or food companies. | 我们不是这样对待航空公司 毒品公司 食品公司 |
| 411 | We now have 150 | 我们现在有150个 |
| 412 | years of experience just letting the market do whatever it wants when it comes to things that | 多年的经验只是让市场 做它想要的 当事物 |
| 413 | deeply affect our health and our safety. | 对我们的健康和安全有着深刻的影响。 |
| 414 | And so there's no replacement for an effective | 因此,没有替代一个有效的 |
| 415 | government regulatory structure. | 政府监管结构。 |
| 416 | And the challenge we have is that obviously | 我们面对的挑战显然是 |
| 417 | we have a president currently that has said that's for losers. | 我们有个总统说那是给失败者的 |
| 418 | So we've got a gap | 所以,我们有一个缺口 |
| 419 | at least in a couple of years where things are moving really fast and we have an administration | 至少在这几年里 事情进展很快 我们有行政部门 |
| 420 | that is not capable of or willing to, I would argue both, of putting together a serious regulatory | 我主张,不能或不愿意 -- -- 两者 -- -- 制定严格的规章。 |
| 421 | framework. | 框架。 |
| 422 | Which is why I actually think we should be encouraging some sort of voluntary | 所以我认为我们应该鼓励 某种自愿 |
| 423 | industry restraint, not because it's a replacement, but because that's probably, | 行业约束,不是因为它是一个替代, 但因为这可能是, |
| 424 | that may be the best we can do for now until we can get Congress and the White House | 这可能是我们现在所能做的最好 直到我们能得到国会和白宫 |
| 425 | to start getting serious about this. | 开始认真对待这件事 |
| 426 | I know some states are going to be trying to | 我知道有些州会试图 |
| 427 | initiate regulatory stuff, but it's hard to do this state by state just like gun control. | 启动监管,但很难做到这一点 状态就像枪支控制。 |
| 428 | In my home state, Illinois, you have some strict gun control laws, but the surrounding states do | 在我的家乡伊利诺伊州,你有一些严格的枪支管制法, 但周围的州有 |
| 429 | not, which means that they don't work. | 不,这意味着他们不工作。 |
| 430 | This is more dangerous and it moves faster. | 这更危险,动作更快 |
| 431 | Last point, | 最后一点 |
| 432 | I warned you I was going to filibuster, but I really wanted to get this stuff in | 我警告过你,我本来要做虚构的 但我真的想把这东西放进去 |
| 433 | because it really does matter. | 因为它真的很重要。 |
| 434 | I mentioned earlier that what's called the alignment problem | 我之前提到过 所谓的调整问题 |
| 435 | is one of the greatest dangers of AI. | 这是大赦国际的最大危险之一。 |
| 436 | If AI, if you give an instruction to AI and it's not precise, | 如果AI,如果你给AI一个指示, 它不准确, |
| 437 | even if AI is not going rogue and it goes off and does things that, man, I didn't think of the fact | 即使AI不是去无赖 它去做一些事情,男人,我没想到的事实 |
| 438 | that when I said maximize my returns on investment that you might hack into a power grid to cause a | 当我说,我的投资收益最大化 你可能会黑进一个电网 |
| 439 | blackout because you shorted a stock, right? | 因为你缺了股票才停电 对吧? |
| 440 | So you want to make sure that you are dealing with | 所以,你想确保 你处理 |
| 441 | core problem of alignment. | 核心对齐问题。 |
| 442 | There is another alignment problem, though, and that is | 不过,还有一个调整问题,即: |
| 443 | the misalignment between how this technology can be best used for society | 这种技术如何最好地用于社会之间的不协调 |
| 444 | and the commercial imperatives of these companies. | 以及这些公司的商业需要。 |
| 445 | These companies have attracted more | 这些公司吸引了更多的 |
| 446 | capital and it's a bigger spend than the Apollo program. | 资本和它是一个更大的支出 比阿波罗计划。 |
| 447 | It is one of the biggest, if not the | 这是最大的,如果不是 |
| 448 | biggest, investment in infrastructure and science and technology in human history, | 人类历史上对基础设施和科技的投资 |
| 449 | and it's happening very fast. | 发生得很快 |
| 450 | And investors want to return. | 投资人想回来 |
| 451 | And what that means is that there is | 那意味着有 |
| 452 | on these companies, even if they're worried, that they have to come up with models that will | 公司,即使他们担心, 他们必须想出模型, |
| 453 | justify all that investment. | 证明所有投资是合理的。 |
| 454 | So the big thing right now in AI is what are called agents, | 所以现在AI里最重要的事情 就是所谓的特工 |
| 455 | (原始内容存档于2018-09-26). Agentic AI. | |
| 456 | You guys, those of you who watch like Iron Man, right, Iron Man's in his little suit | 你们这些家伙,谁看 像铁人,对,铁人在他的小西装 |
| 457 | and he, I don't know, remember what the guy's name is, Jeeves or whatever, and he just talks | 他,我不知道,记得那家伙的名字,Jeeves什么的 他只是说话 |
| 458 | and the guy's like, he has a British accent or something, and he kind of goes, yes, sir, | 这家伙就像, 他有一个英国口音什么的, 他有点去,是的,先生, |
| 459 | and he solves all these problems just with voice orders. | 他用语音命令解决所有这些问题 |
| 460 | Or if you've seen her, Scarlett Johansson, | 或者如果你见过她,斯嘉丽·约翰森 |
| 461 | a very cool, you know, agentic AI, that's the direction we're going in, because the notion is, | 一个非常酷的,你知道的,代理AI, 这就是我们要去的方向, 因为概念是, |
| 462 | is that agentic AI will allow these AI bots to operate, these models to operate in the world. | 这个代理AI会允许这些AI bots操作, 这些模型在世界运行。 |
| 463 | Be your assistant, be the, you know, replace the law associate or the accountant. | 做你的助理, 做,你知道, 替换法律助理或会计师。 |
| 464 | The problem is | 问题是 |
| 465 | when you, if that's your business model, you want to then get it out. | 当你,如果那是你的商业模式, 你想得到它出来。 |
| 466 | And sometimes you have to test | 有时候你不得不测试 |
| 467 | it by letting it run wild in the world to see if it's actually working. | 让它在世界上狂奔 看看它是否有效 |
| 468 | And that's where a lot of | 这儿有很多 |
| 469 | danger may come in, because you're not in a sealed box. | 危险可能降临 因为你不在密封箱里 |
| 470 | It's in the internet. | 腾讯网. |
| 471 | It's looking | 看着呢 |
| 472 | at your bank accounts, et cetera. | 在你的银行账户等等。 |
| 473 | I use that as an example to say, if we are thinking about AI | 我用这个例子来说明 如果我们在考虑AI |
| 474 | just in terms of how do we cure cancer or get better energy, you can do that without having | 就我们如何治愈癌症或获得更好的能量而言,你可以不带 |
| 475 | agentic AI and having it just roaming free in the internet. | 在互联网上闲逛 |
| 476 | The reason you are doing that | 你这样做的原因 |
| 477 | is because you have to market a product that people will pay money for. | 因为你必须推销一种人们会花钱购买的产品。 |
| 478 | That's a misalignment | 这是错的 |
| 479 | between what our society needs and the commercial imperatives that these companies are facing, | 我们的社会需要 和这些公司面临的商业需要, |
| 480 | not because necessarily they're trying to do bad things, but because, you know, they've got to, | 不是因为他们想做坏事 而是因为他们必须 |
| 481 | justify these valuations. | 证明这些估价是合理的。 |
| 482 | So that's one more reason why it is really important for us to have | 所以这是另一个原因,为什么我们真的有 |
| 483 | a competent government and a serious bipartisan conversation around this issue. | 一个称职的政府 和严肃的两党对话 在这个问题上。 |
| 484 | And we have to do | 我们必须这么做 |
| 485 | it fast. | 快点 |
| 486 | And I would encourage voters to pay attention to this. | 我鼓励选民注意这一点。 |
| 487 | If somebody does not have a | 如果有人没有 |
| 488 | good job, you should probably look for somebody else. | 干得漂亮,你应该找别人 |
| 489 | Sorry about that, but I wanted to... | 对不起,但我想... |
| 490 | It's not the only thing we've got to deal with, but it's a big one. | 非唯此法而能治之,实为大也. |
| 491 | So since this is family weekend and I want people to feel good, I'm going to go from | 既然这是家庭周末 我想让大家感觉好点 |
| 492 | bots to the threats to our democracy. | 威胁我们的民主。 |
| 493 | There you go. | 给你。 |
| 494 | Yeah, because we're doing great on that front. | 是啊,因为我们做的很好 在前面。 |
| 495 | Well, here you go. | 给你 |
| 496 | Well, happy news. | 很高兴见到你 |
| 497 | Okay, this is a question and a job offer. | 好吧,这是一个问题和工作邀请。 |
| 498 | Okay, which is this. | 好吧,这是这个。 |
| 499 | Say Colgate University was lucky enough to say | 说科尔盖特大学很幸运 |
| 500 | former constitutional law teacher at the University of Chicago is going to join our faculty | 芝加哥大学前宪法教师 将加入我们的队伍 |
| 501 | as a distinguished visiting professor of political science. | 作为政治学的杰出客座教授. |
| 502 | Seems like a popular idea. | 看起来像一个流行的想法。 |
| 503 | And you're going to teach a course on democracy. | 而你要教授一个有关民主的课程。 |
| 504 | But only in September. | 但只在九月时. |
| 505 | Only in September. | 只在九月时. |
| 506 | We have a very good basketball team and you would like it very much here in the | 我们有一个非常好的篮球队 你会非常喜欢这里 |
| 507 | military. | 军事 |
| 508 | So you are now going to teach a course on democracy only in the early fall. | 所以,你现在只在秋天才讲授民主课程。 |
| 509 | But at this | 但在这 |
| 510 | moment, at this moment, what would you teach them? | 此刻,你会教他们什么? |
| 511 | I mean, I can imagine you're a constitutional law | 我的意思是,我可以想象你是一个宪法法律 |
| 512 | expert. | 专家。 |
| 513 | You could do that. | 你可以做到这一点。 |
| 514 | You could say, hey, this is how the government works. | 你可以说,嘿,政府就是这样运作的。 |
| 515 | But this is a | 但这是 |
| 516 | moment. | 等会儿 |
| 517 | What would you do in an advanced seminar as a professor at Colgate about democracy? | 作为科尔盖特的教授 你会在高级研讨会上做什么 关于民主? |
| 518 | I think it's a great question. | 我认为这是一个伟大的问题。 |
| 519 | I think the first thing I'd want to discuss with the students, | 我想第一件事 我想和学生们讨论 |
| 520 | since it's a seminar, I'd kind of open it up. | 由于这是一个研讨会, 我有点打开它。 |
| 521 | Everybody in this gym grew up in a fairly unique | 这个体育馆里每个人都在相当独特的地方长大 |
| 522 | time. | 时间。 |
| 523 | Even old people like me. | 即使是像我这样的老人 |
| 524 | The post-World War II era, in which, in fits and starts, and with | 二战后的时代, 适合并开始, |
| 525 | Watergate and riots and assassinations, a lot of terrible stuff happened. | 水门 暴动和暗杀 发生了很多可怕的事情 |
| 526 | But if you were lucky | 但如果你运气好 |
| 527 | enough to live in this country during that period, you saw a broadening of democracy over time. | 在那段时期,你们看到民主随着时间推移而扩大。 |
| 528 | Civil rights movement, women's movement, LGBTQ movement, expansion of the franchise, one person, | 民权运动,妇女运动,LGBTQ运动,扩大选举权,一人, |
| 529 | one vote, and a solidification post the McCarthy era of notions of civil liberties and freedom of | 并巩固了麦卡锡时代的公民自由和自由 |
| 530 | speech. | 说话 |
| 531 | And we built a pretty remarkable consensus around that. | 我们为此达成了一个相当了不起的共识。 |
| 532 | That was shared by both parties. | 双方都同意这一点。 |
| 533 | Both major political parties. | 两大政党. |
| 534 | That began to break down. | 这开始崩溃。 |
| 535 | You can argue when. | 你什么时候可以争论。 |
| 536 | Maybe it was | 也许是 |
| 537 | according to Lyndon Johnson, the minute he signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964. | 根据林登·约翰逊的说法,他签署1964年民权法案的那一刻. |
| 538 | You could argue that it happened as a consequence of changes in the economy and after Ronald Reagan. | 你可以说,这是经济变化的结果 和罗纳德·里根之后。 |
| 539 | But what you saw was people mistrusting that progress or taking it for granted. | 但是,你看到的是人们不信任这个进步 或者把它视为理所当然。 |
| 540 | And I think the main thing I would be teaching, just by virtue of looking at American history, | 我认为我的主要内容是教书, 只是通过看美国的历史, |
| 541 | which I know that you studied deeply, is democracy is not self-executing. | 我知道你们深思熟虑的是 民主不是自动生效的 |
| 542 | It requires a certain set | 需要一定的设定 |
| 543 | of norms, habits, and social trust. | 规范、习惯和社会信任。 |
| 544 | And those muscles have to continually be built, built up | 肌肉必须不断积聚,不断积聚 |
| 545 | and passed on. | 和传承。 |
| 546 | You can't passively just sit there and say, you're in a democracy. | 你不能被动地坐在那里 说,你是一个民主国家。 |
| 547 | If you are not | 如果你没有 |
| 548 | engaged in it. | 参与其中. |
| 549 | And I think that what we have seen for a variety of reasons is not just | 我认为,我们所看到的各种原因不仅仅是 |
| 550 | the ways in which inequality and economic power have distorted our democracy, | 不平等和经济力量扭曲我们民主的方式, |
| 551 | but also how we've lost a lot of those habits of citizenship. | 但我们却失去了很多公民的习惯 |
| 552 | And | 还有 |
| 553 | the thing we now have to grapple with is how do we create not just a governmental system, but also | 我们现在必须处理的是,我们如何不仅建立一个政府系统,而且建立一个政府系统。 |
| 554 | education systems, civic institutions, what used to be called mediating institutions, | 教育系统、民间机构、过去所谓的调解机构、 |
| 555 | things like it used to be the church or unions or what have you. | 比如以前是教会或工会 或者你有什么 |
| 556 | How do we adapt those to a | 我们如何使这些适应 |
| 557 | information digital age that engages people and gives them a sense of agency? | 信息数字时代让人们参与并给他们一种代理感? |
| 558 | Because if people | 因为如果有人 |
| 559 | don't feel like they have a responsibility to make democracy work, it doesn't work. | 不觉得他们有责任 使民主发挥作用, 它不起作用。 |
| 560 | It starts | 开始 |
| 561 | breaking down. | 崩溃。 |
| 562 | And the syllabus I'd have would start with the American Revolution. | 我从美国革命开始讲课程 |
| 563 | Those of you | 你们 |
| 564 | who don't want to take the entire course, since it's a fantasy, because | 他们不想接受整个课程 因为它是一个幻想,因为 |
| 565 | my wife's not going to be happy if I'm gone for the fall. | 我老婆不会高兴的 如果我去秋天。 |
| 566 | But if you wanted just a quick synopsis, | 但是如果你想要一个简单的概要 |
| 567 | watch Ken Burns' American Revolution. | 看着肯·伯恩斯的美国革命 |
| 568 | Six parts, I think two hours each, 12 hours, you can do it on | 6个部分,我认为每个2小时,12小时,你可以做到这一点 |
| 569 | a treadmill. | 跑步车 |
| 570 | What is striking when you watch it is just how contingent this whole experiment was. | 当你看着它时,令人惊讶的是 这整个实验是多么的意外。 |
| 571 | And it started truthfully with a bunch of rich guys not wanting to pay their taxes. | 开始真的 一群有钱人不想交税 |
| 572 | Democracy wasn't the core animating principle at the start of the American Revolution. | 民主并不是美国革命开始时的核心动画原则. |
| 573 | There was frustration with the empire and the colonialists feeling as if they were | 对帝国和殖民者感到沮丧 |
| 574 | being imposed upon. | 被强加。 |
| 575 | And it was a fairly narrow agenda. | 这是一个相当狭窄的议程。 |
| 576 | And over time, what happened is that | 随着时间的推移,发生的事情是 |
| 577 | these actions behind the initial actions like the Boston Tea Party, you start getting | 在波士顿茶党等初期行动背后的这些行动 你开始得到 |
| 578 | an articulation of this broader idea. | 阐述这个更广泛的想法。 |
| 579 | Props to Thomas Paine, by the way. | 顺便说一句,是给托马斯·培恩的 |
| 580 | That guy actually | 其实那个家伙 |
| 581 | believed in democracy. | 相信民主。 |
| 582 | And so you start getting these ideas circulating about what democracy means | 所以你开始得到这些想法 传播民主意味着什么 |
| 583 | for ordinary people. | 给普通人 |
| 584 | And people like Phyllis Wheatley. | 还有菲利斯·惠特利这样的人 |
| 585 | After an American woman suddenly gets | 一个美国女人突然得到 |
| 586 | Thomas Paine, she reads this and she says, you know what, this is a good idea, this idea of the | 托马斯・培恩,她读了这个 她说,你知道, 这是一个好主意, 这个想法 |
| 587 | franchise and everybody having a say in their government. | 选举权和每个人在政府中有发言权。 |
| 588 | This might apply to black people, | 这可能适用于黑人, |
| 589 | or it might apply to women. | 也可能适用于妇女。 |
| 590 | And slowly, by the time you get to the Declaration of Independence, | 慢慢地,当你到了独立宣言, |
| 591 | as flawed as it is, you do have this precious idea. | 你确实有这个宝贵的想法 |
| 592 | I think one of the best ideas in human history, | 我认为人类历史上最好的想法之一, |
| 593 | if not the best. | 如果不是最好的话。 |
| 594 | We're all created equal. | 我们都是平等的 |
| 595 | We're all endowed with certain inalienable rights. | 我们都有不可剥夺的权利 |
| 596 | And then we have to try to operationalize it. | 然后,我们必须尝试操作它。 |
| 597 | But I say that because it is not a static thing | 但我这么说是因为这不是静态的东西 |
| 598 | and it's not a given. | 它不是一个给定。 |
| 599 | And I can give you all kinds of specifics about how we might get rid of the | 我可以给你各种细节 关于我们如何摆脱 |
| 600 | filibuster or reform campaign finance or this or that or the other. | 或改革竞选资金 或这个或那个或那个 |
| 601 | But at its core, democracy means | 但民主的核心是: |
| 602 | everybody in this auditorium and beyond says, I have a say in how we collectively live and I | 这间礼堂内外的每个人都说,我对我们的集体生活有发言权,我 |
| 603 | have a responsibility that goes beyond my narrow self-interest to make sure that thing works. | 承担着超越我狭隘的自我利益的责任 确保那玩意能起作用 |
| 604 | And we have to find better ways in this ultra-fast, | 我们必须找到更好的方法 在这个超快, |
| 605 | dynamic, disruptive society that we're living through to recreate that sense of agency on the | 充满活力的 破坏性的社会,我们正在经历 以重新创造 代理感 |
| 606 | part of individuals. | 部分个人。 |
| 607 | And that we believe that's important enough that there are times where we | 我们认为这已经足够重要了 有的时候我们 |
| 608 | will set aside our interests. | 将搁置我们的利益。 |
| 609 | We can have debates. | 我们可以进行辩论。 |
| 610 | I'm just going to give you one specific example. | 我给你们一个具体的例子 |
| 611 | We can have debates about what our marginal tax rate should be. | 我们可以讨论一下我们的边际税率应该是什么。 |
| 612 | And I would argue that | 我会说 |
| 613 | wealthy people in this country do not pay enough in taxes. | 这个国家的富人交不起足够的税。 |
| 614 | And the very ultra wealthy oftentimes | 和非常富有的时候 |
| 615 | pay no taxes and have figured out how to game the system. | 不交税 并且已经知道如何玩弄这个系统。 |
| 616 | But we can have that debate. | 但我们可以进行辩论。 |
| 617 | But when I | 但当我 |
| 618 | hear billionaires, not millionaires, but folks who cannot spend ever a fraction of their wealth | 听到的亿万富翁,不是百万富翁, 但人们谁不能花 他们的财富的一小部分 |
| 619 | and neither can their kids or their grandkids, say they are moving to Florida not because they | 他们的孩子和孙子也不能说 他们搬到佛罗里达不是因为他们 |
| 620 | love Florida. | 爱佛罗里达。 |
| 621 | They might. | 也许吧 |
| 622 | It's nothing against Florida, nice weather. | 这与佛罗里达州无关 天气不错 |
| 623 | But because they're trying | 但因为他们在努力 |
| 624 | to avoid a state tax, which is a rounding error in their wealth. | 避免州税,这是他们财富的四舍五入错误。 |
| 625 | Now there's a certain mentality | 现在有一种心理 |
| 626 | there that says, I should not have to give up anything. | 上面写着 我不应该放弃任何东西 |
| 627 | Despite the fact that that wealth, | 尽管那些财富 |
| 628 | whatever you want to argue about how hard they worked or this or that or the other, | 不管你想争论什么 他们工作多么辛苦 或者这个 或者那个或者另一个 |
| 629 | that wealth was, the foundation of that wealth was a social order and a system that had | 财富的基础是一个社会秩序和制度,而社会秩序和制度 |
| 630 | amazing universities and roads and fire protection and a judicial system that could | 惊人的大学和道路、防火和司法系统能够 |
| 631 | enforce contracts, all of which cost some money to maintain. | 执行合同,所有这些都需要一些钱来维持。 |
| 632 | If we don't get that right, | 如果我们不正确, |
| 633 | then the mechanics of democracy won't be enough, as we've seen, because we've just seen a whole | 那么,民主的力学就不够了 正如我们所看到的,因为我们刚刚看到了一个整体 |
| 634 | bunch of laws in place that have been blown through in ways I would never have anticipated. | 一堆法律已经到位 被吹穿的方式 我从来没有预料到。 |
| 635 | My imagination could not foresee some of the stuff that's going on right now. | 我的想象力无法预见现在发生的事情 |
| 636 | I believe there was | 我认为有 |
| 637 | 只是宣布白宫决定 CNN MSN MSNOW | |
| 638 | maybe the New York Times included, you just can't come to the White House press briefings anymore | 也许纽约时报包括了 你不能再来白宫做新闻简报了 |
| 639 | because you're giving the current president unfavorable coverage. | 因为你给现任总统 不好的报道。 |
| 640 | I'm trying to think | и稱稱 |
| 641 | what would have happened if I had said, you know what, Fox News, you're out of here. | 如果我说 福克斯新闻社 你该走了 |
| 642 | It's unimaginable. | 这是难以想象的。 |
| 643 | But the point I'm making here is that if you have a certain cohort, | 但我要说的是 如果你有某个群体 |
| 644 | let's call it 30 to 35 percent of the country right now, which thinks that's okay, well what | 现在全国百分之三十到三十五的人 都觉得没关系 |
| 645 | that means is we have not developed the kind of understanding of what democracy requires, | 这意味着我们还没有形成对民主要求的理解, |
| 646 | and we've got to shore that back up. | 并且我们得靠岸 备份。 |
| 647 | I don't think that's inevitable. | 我不认为这是不可避免的。 |
| 648 | I don't think | 我不觉得 |
| 649 | all is lost on that front, but we have to roll up our sleeves and get working. | 但是我们必须卷起袖子去干活 |
| 650 | I want to build on what you actually just did, and then I want to move that to the work you could do | 我想以你刚刚所做的为基础,然后,我想把它转到你可以做的工作上 |
| 651 | in the Obama Center. | 在奥巴马中心。 |
| 652 | Because when I asked you about democracy, what you did was offer an | 因为当我问你民主时 你所做的就是 |
| 653 | intellectual history of the American Revolution. | 美国革命思想史. |
| 654 | I would argue that great universities, which are | 我想说,伟大的大学,是 |
| 655 | under significant strain right now, that's the work of great universities to train people to | 现在压力很大,这是伟大的大学 训练人们去 |
| 656 | understand the intellectual history of what just happened. | 了解刚才发生的知识史. |
| 657 | So, yay for universities. | 所以,对大学。 |
| 658 | But you're | 但你还是 |
| 659 | also making the argument that these are practices and norms that can be inculcated, | 还辩称,这些做法和规范是可以灌输的, |
| 660 | developed muscles. | 肌肉发达 |
| 661 | When I look at the Obama Center, the core of it is training leaders. | 当我看着奥巴马中心时,它的核心是培训领导人。 |
| 662 | Can you train people to be leaders? | 你能训练别人当领袖吗? |
| 663 | Can you train people in democracy? | 你能训练人们民主吗? |
| 664 | Absolutely. | 当然 |
| 665 | Look, I was elected president because I had an army of 20-something-year-olds, | 我当选总统是因为我有一队20多岁的军队 |
| 666 | basically the age of a bunch of the young people who are about to graduate, who we dropped into | 基本上就是一群即将毕业的年轻人的时代, 我们投身于 |
| 667 | cornfields in Iowa and small towns in New Hampshire, and created a democratic movement | 爱荷华州和新罕布什尔州小城镇的玉米田 创造了民主运动 |
| 668 | and process, out of whole cloth in some ways, that then swamped all the professional consultants and | 和过程,从整个布 在某些方面, 然后沼泽所有的专业顾问 |
| 669 | pollsters and machinery, upended the political system. | 民意测验员和机器 改进了政治制度 |
| 670 | And it was kids who did it. | 是孩子们干的 |
| 671 | Because actually, these habits I talk about about democracy | 因为实际上,这些习惯 我谈论民主 |
| 672 | draw on things that are inside of us. | 利用我们心中的东西 |
| 673 | I'll give you a simple example. | 举个简单的例子 |
| 674 | So, | 这么说 |
| 675 | the leaders we have vary in both the work they do and the stages they are in their careers. | 我们的领导人在他们的工作和他们职业生涯的各个阶段都各不相同。 |
| 676 | I | 一、导 言 |
| 677 | have leaders for young boys and girls who are still in secondary school. | 由仍然在中学的男女青年领导。 |
| 678 | We've got a program | 我们有一个程序 |
| 679 | called Voyagers for university students who are interested in public service careers. | 给对公共服务事业感兴趣的大学生打电话。 |
| 680 | But we also | 但我们也 |
| 681 | have a leaders program not just here but in Europe and Africa and Asia that includes members of | 不仅在这里,而且在欧洲、非洲和亚洲都有一个领导者方案,其中包括来自 |
| 682 | parliament or chiefs of staff of governments or doctors who have already set up women's health | 已经建立妇女健康制度的议会或政府办公室主任或医生 |
| 683 | in sub-Saharan Africa or are working on misinformation or human rights lawyers in Russia | 或正在研究俄罗斯错误信息或人权律师 |
| 684 | or conservationists in Vietnam. | 或越南的保护主义者。 |
| 685 | People in their 30s who have already done amazing stuff, | 30多岁的人已经做了惊人的事 |
| 686 | we get them together. | 我们让他们在一起。 |
| 687 | The first thing we do is we have a whole module just around | 我们要做的第一件事是 我们有一个完整的模块就在附近 |
| 688 | listening to people. | 听别人说 |
| 689 | Because it turns out that you can teach people to tap into their curiosity | 因为你可以教别人挖掘他们的好奇心 |
| 690 | about other people, people who are not like them. | 关于其他人, 和他们不一样的人。 |
| 691 | Instead of going into a community saying, | 而不是进入一个社区说, |
| 692 | I want to be a leader and I've got a plan, what we say is go into a community and ask people | 我想当一个领袖,我有一个计划, 我们所说的是进入一个社区,问人们 |
| 693 | who they are and what their stories are and what their traditions are and what their values are. | 他们是谁,他们的故事是什么,他们的传统是什么,他们的价值观是什么。 |
| 694 | And be quiet and show some humility because it turns out that if you are open to listening, | 安静点,谦卑一点 因为发现如果你愿意听 |
| 695 | people will tell you amazing things about their lives. | 人们会告诉你关于他们生活的惊人的事情。 |
| 696 | They'll talk about the immigrant | 他们会谈论移民 |
| 697 | grandparents who came here and sitting listening to their grandma's stories and they'll talk about | 祖父母来到这里,坐着听奶奶的故事 他们会谈论 |
| 698 | the great migration and how African American family in Alabama made their way to Chicago | 亚拉巴马的非裔美国人 是如何到达芝加哥的 |
| 699 | and they'll talk about their fears and their hopes. | 他们会谈论他们的恐惧和希望 |
| 700 | And when you do that, when you listen | 当你这样做,当你听 |
| 701 | to people's stories and you start stitching it together with yours, you are now creating | 在人们的故事中,你开始 缝合它与你的, 你现在正在创造 |
| 702 | a relationship with them that transcends just self-interest. | 一种超越自身利益的关系 |
| 703 | And you've built some trust and | 你建立了一些信任 |
| 704 | now you're in a position to actually say, you know what, we actually share this stuff, | 现在你可以说,你知道, 我们实际上分享这些东西, |
| 705 | maybe we should work together and get this done. | 也许我们应该一起努力 完成这件事 |
| 706 | What do you think? | 你觉得呢? |
| 707 | So you can teach, and I'm just using that as one example, you can teach these skills. | 所以,你可以教书, 而我只是用这个例子, 你可以教这些技能。 |
| 708 | And I think | 我觉得 |
| 709 | one of the things that we are missing and what universities at their best can provide is developing | 我们缺少的东西之一 以及大学能提供什么 |
| 710 | a practice of how do we talk to each other and see each other and recognize each other | 如何彼此交谈 彼此相见 互相认识 |
| 711 | and respect each other even in deep disagreement. | 并尊重彼此,即使彼此分歧甚深。 |
| 712 | That is the essence of democracy but I would also | 这是民主的本质,但我也会 |
| 713 | argue is the essence of the best forms of leadership. | 争论是最佳领导形式的实质。 |
| 714 | There's another model of leadership | 还有另一种领导模式 |
| 715 | and it's got a longer lineage which involves hierarchy and dominance and submission and | 它有更长的分界线 涉及到等级和统治 和顺从, |
| 716 | scapegoating and racism and anti-Semitism and putting women in their place and putting | 替罪羊、种族主义和反犹太主义、让妇女代替她们、让她们 |
| 717 | gay people back in the closet. | 同志们回到衣柜里 |
| 718 | That is, and is backed by coercion and violence and that is a, | 即,并辅以胁迫和暴力,即, |
| 719 | you know, a long-time mechanism for rule and power. | 你知道,一个长期的统治和权力机制。 |
| 720 | But the American experiments | 但美国的实验 |
| 721 | premised on this different idea at its best and we had conquest and we had slavery and | 我们拥有了征服和奴役 |
| 722 | Native Americans were removed from their land and we did a bunch of terrible things. | 美洲原住民被从他们的土地上带走 我们做了很多可怕的事情 |
| 723 | The man is to pray. | 此人应礼拜. |
| 724 | But at our best, what came out of that American Revolution was this different idea. | 但是,从我们最好的情况来看,美国革命的结果就是这个不同的想法。 |
| 725 | And that's the kind of leadership we not only believe we can develop, but I would argue | 而这就是那种领导,我们不仅相信 我们可以发展, 但我会认为 |
| 726 | has to be developed at this time, at this moment in our history. | 此时此刻,在我们历史的这个时刻,必须发展起来. |
| 727 | Because the world — what the interconnectivity has done is it has — the worlds have collided. | 因为世界——互联性所做的就是它已经做了——世界相撞. |
| 728 | You have villages in my grandmother's — you have people in my grandmother's village in | 你在我的祖母的村子里有村庄 在我的祖母的村子里有人 |
| 729 | Alago, in rural Kenya, who are watching the Kardashians on their cell phones. | 肯尼亚农村的阿拉戈, |
| 730 | Part of why culture wars seem to accelerate and people feel so threatened is because it | 文化战争似乎在加速,人们感到如此威胁的部分原因就是 |
| 731 | used to be that folks in San Francisco and folks in Lubbock, Texas, didn't necessarily | 曾经是旧金山的人 和德克萨斯州卢博克的人 不一定是 |
| 732 | know how the other was living. | 知道另一个是如何生活的。 |
| 733 | And now it's in their faces and they feel threatened by that. | 现在它出现在他们脸上, 他们觉得受到威胁。 |
| 734 | And if we can't develop a capacity to see each other and recognize our common humanity, | 如果我们不能发展一种能力 互相认识和承认我们的共同人性, |
| 735 | the kinds of old-style leadership with the destructive weapons we have and the means | 我们拥有的毁灭性武器和手段的老式领导 |
| 736 | of propaganda that we currently have, that will be a recipe for tragedy. | 这将会是一场悲剧 |
| 737 | And we've got a better option. | 我们有更好的选择 |
| 738 | It's more fun not hating each other and trying to get along and working together. | 更乐不恨彼此,并欲相与共事. |
| 739 | So at least that's my view. | 所以至少这是我的看法。 |
| 740 | You know, I'm listening to you and we're getting near the end of our time — we're | 你知道,我在听 你和我们接近 结束的时间——我们 |
| 741 | actually at the end of our time, but I'm going to ask this question. | 实际上,在我们的时间结束时, 但我要去问这个问题。 |
| 742 | Listening to you and remembering the optative political frame of hope that you brought, | 倾听你的心声 记住你带来的 乐观的政治希望框架 |
| 743 | and I look at the Obama Center and its work, what percentage of your work now is based | 我看看奥巴马中心及其工作, 你的工作现在有多少百分比的基础 |
| 744 | on this faith in this optimism, hope? | 相信这种乐观,希望? |
| 745 | Or how much of it is like a rearguard action of despair? | 或者说,其中多少像绝望的后卫行动? |
| 746 | No, look, I mean, you were asking about the role of universities, right? | 不,你看,我的意思是,你问 关于大学的作用,对不对? |
| 747 | My university years involved some excessive partying at the beginning, and then I kind | 我的大学年限 包括一些过度的派对 一开始,然后我表示 |
| 748 | of flipped a switch and became sort of way too serious and isolated and almost monkish | 转动开关 变得太严重 孤立和几乎僧侣 |
| 749 | for the latter part of it. | 对于它的后半部分。 |
| 750 | I was all out of balance trying to figure stuff out. | 我完全没有平衡 试图找出事情。 |
| 751 | But the one thing that happened to me during my time in the university is — and I think | 但我在大学期间遇到的一件事是 我想 |
| 752 | this is an essential role of a university, and particularly liberal arts universities | 这是一所大学,特别是文科大学的重要作用 |
| 753 | — to get you to think deeply about what are your deepest commitments, your values, | 让你深刻思考你最深的承诺和价值 |
| 754 | do you have a code, are there things you're willing to sacrifice for, what gives meaning | 你有密码吗? 你愿意牺牲什么? |
| 755 | and purpose to your life. | 和目的 你的生活。 |
| 756 | And that was a great gift and a luxury, and each university has to do different things. | 这是一个伟大的天赋和奢侈, 每个大学必须做不同的事情。 |
| 757 | Or can choose to do different things. | 或能选择作不同事. |
| 758 | Some universities, their mission is we've got to make sure that people find work in | 有些大学,他们的使命是 我们必须确保人们找到工作 |
| 759 | a new economy and are trained, and that's a noble mission and pursuit. | 新的经济 并经过训练, 这是一个崇高的使命和追求。 |
| 760 | But during that time, particularly in your late teens, early 20s, that's the time to | 在那段时间里,特别是在你十几岁左右, 20多岁时,是时候 |
| 761 | figure out what's important to you. | 想想什么对你很重要 |
| 762 | I say all that because one conclusion that I drew from this period of time, both partying | 我这样说是因为我从这段时期得出的一个结论, 双方都是 |
| 763 | and reading a lot of books, was that the world is complicated and humans are really complicated. | 读了很多书, 因为世界是复杂的, 人类是真正的复杂。 |
| 764 | And we are wandering through, during this brief time that we have, with good and bad | 我们正在徘徊, 在这短暂的时间里,我们有,有好有坏 |
| 765 | and beauty and ugliness and violence and love constantly pulling at us and happening to | 美丽、丑陋、暴力、爱情 不停的拉着我们 并发生 |
| 766 | us and inside us. | 我们和内心 |
| 767 | And where we get power is when we make a decision to pursue and embody and try as best we can | 而我们获得权力的地方,就是当我们决定 追求,体现和尝试,尽我们所能 |
| 768 | imperfectly to live out a sense that, you know what, this is a wondrous, amazing journey | 不完美地活在一种感觉, 你知道,这是一个奇妙,奇妙的旅程 |
| 769 | I'm on and let me share it with some fellow travelers and do my best and work through | 我开始,让我和一些同行分享 尽我最大的努力,通过 |
| 770 | the tough times and appreciate the good ones. | 艰难的时光 欣赏好的时光 |
| 771 | And so hope for me, and I've said this in the speech that kind of launched my national | 我满怀希望,我在演说中说过, 启动我的祖国 |
| 772 | political career, about hope is never blind optimism and hope is grounded in a clear-eyed | 政治生涯,关于希望绝不是盲目的乐观,希望根植于明眼 |
| 773 | recognition that tough things happen and the world is deeply imperfect. | 承认艰难的事情发生了,而世界却非常不完美。 |
| 774 | But we have the agency, we make choices about what we feed and what we starve. | 但我们有这个机构, 我们做选择 我们喂什么,我们挨饿。 |
| 775 | And I'd rather feed in that sense that there is a commonality and a goodness in people | 我宁愿从这个意义上来养活人,人们有共性和善良 |
| 776 | And I'd rather starve those parts of me that are greedy or selfish or scared or mean. | 我宁愿饿死我那些贪婪 自私 害怕或卑鄙的人 |
| 777 | And I think that's something that we all wrestle with and we all have the capacity to make | 我想这是我们都在挣扎的东西 我们都有能力做 |
| 778 | our own choices. | 我们自己的选择。 |
| 779 | I like my choice and I'd like it for the country as well. | 我喜欢我的选择 我也喜欢这个国家的选择 |
| 780 | All right. | 好吧,我们走。 |
| 781 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 782 | Of course I have more questions, but I think to end on that note, which is not just a political | 我当然还有更多的问题,但我想以这一点结束,这不仅是一个政治问题。 |
| 783 | manifesto, but a manifesto that should animate any college or university. | 宣言,但宣言 应该活跃任何学院或大学。 |
| 784 | So you're hired to be a professor, this whole thing was a job interview. | 所以你被聘为教授 这整件事都是面试 |
| 785 | Let's thank President Obama for being here. | 让我们感谢奥巴马总统来到这里。 |
| 786 | It's really true. | 这是真的。 |
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