《经济学人》访谈德国选择党领袖艾丽斯·魏德尔：德国资助乌克兰
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | Do you see Russia as a threat beyond Ukraine? | 你是否将俄罗斯视为乌克兰以外的威胁? |
| 0:04 | Do you think it is a threat to European countries, | 你觉得这是对欧洲国家的威胁吗? |
| 0:06 | to NATO members? | 给北约成员? |
| 0:08 | I think it's not a question about threat or not being a threat. | 我认为这不是威胁与否的问题. |
| 0:12 | I think | 我觉得 |
| 0:12 | German foreign or Germany's foreign policy should be evaluated by the criterion if it serves our | 德国的对外政策或德国的对外政策,如果符合我们的标准,就应当加以评价。 |
| 0:23 | interests or not. | 利益与否。 |
| 0:25 | And being or acting like this is our government currently, it leads to a situation | 身为政府或采取这样的行动 会导致局势恶化 |
| 0:35 | that is very harmful for us. | 这对我们非常有害。 |
| 0:39 | I haven't mentioned the sanctions. | 我没有提到制裁。 |
展开字幕全文（131 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Do you see Russia as a threat beyond Ukraine? | 你是否将俄罗斯视为乌克兰以外的威胁? |
| 2 | Do you think it is a threat to European countries, | 你觉得这是对欧洲国家的威胁吗? |
| 3 | to NATO members? | 给北约成员? |
| 4 | I think it's not a question about threat or not being a threat. | 我认为这不是威胁与否的问题. |
| 5 | I think | 我觉得 |
| 6 | German foreign or Germany's foreign policy should be evaluated by the criterion if it serves our | 德国的对外政策或德国的对外政策,如果符合我们的标准,就应当加以评价。 |
| 7 | interests or not. | 利益与否。 |
| 8 | And being or acting like this is our government currently, it leads to a situation | 身为政府或采取这样的行动 会导致局势恶化 |
| 9 | that is very harmful for us. | 这对我们非常有害。 |
| 10 | I haven't mentioned the sanctions. | 我没有提到制裁。 |
| 11 | Well, while we impose like one | 好吧,虽然我们强制像一个 |
| 12 | package after the other, Donald Trump talks with Vladimir Putin about the delivery of further diesel | 唐纳德·特朗普与弗拉基米尔·普京谈了进一步交付柴油的问题 |
| 13 | and also about oil and gas, right? | 还有石油和天然气,对吧? |
| 14 | Well, we would like to have the same thing for Germany. | 嗯,我们想有同样的东西 对于德国。 |
| 15 | Do you not think it is appropriate for Germany and for other West European countries to support | 你是否认为德国和其他西欧国家支持 |
| 16 | a country that is a democratic country trying to defend itself against this outright aggression? | 一个民主国家试图保卫自己不受这种公然侵略? |
| 17 | Well, it's as democratic as it is. | 嗯,这是民主的。 |
| 18 | They have no elections anymore of a new president. | 他们不再选举新总统。 |
| 19 | That's a reason why the American president, he claims new elections for the president | 这就是为什么美国总统, 他声称新的选举总统 |
| 20 | because he thinks that Zelensky is not the right person at the right time. | 因为他认为泽伦斯基在适当的时候不是合适的人. |
| 21 | And they don't have elections right now because it's in the war and there's martial law. | 而他们现在没有选举,因为它是在战争中,还有戒严法. |
| 22 | But it's still. | 却依旧. |
| 23 | When we talk about an aggressor and someone not being an aggressor, we also | 当我们谈论侵略者和不是侵略者的人时,我们也 |
| 24 | criticized the Russian attack on Ukraine because Ukraine is a sovereign country. | 批评俄罗斯进攻乌克兰,因为乌克兰是一个主权国家. |
| 25 | Full stop, there's no discussion about it. | 完全停止,没有讨论这个问题。 |
| 26 | But now, as you said before, we are in the state | 但现在,正如你之前所说,我们是在州里 |
| 27 | status quo right now. | 维持现状 |
| 28 | And the status quo is terrible not only for the people dying | 不仅对垂死的人来说 现状也很糟糕 |
| 29 | and for the families losing their sons and the damaging of infrastructures, refineries, | 和失去儿子和破坏基础设施的家庭, |
| 30 | skyrocketing diesel prices, and incredibly high security risk for all countries, | 柴油价格暴涨,各国的安全风险极高, |
| 31 | especially European countries. | 特别是欧洲国家。 |
| 32 | So therefore, we need to put this to an end. | 因此,我们需要结束这种情况。 |
| 33 | And this is in our, | 这是我们的, |
| 34 | because I'm a German politician, I have to judge every foreign policy of Germany. | 因为我是德国的政治家 我必须判断德国的外交政策 |
| 35 | Is it in our | 是我们 |
| 36 | interests or is it not? | 利益还是不是? |
| 37 | The prolongation and the measures being taken by the German governments | 德国政府的延长和采取的措施 |
| 38 | right now impose a huge risk on our country. | 现在给我国带来巨大风险 |
| 39 | And we think, I think it is wrong to continue with | 我们认为,我认为继续 |
| 40 | a prolongation of a financing of a already lost war. | 延长对已经失去的战争的资助。 |
| 41 | The Ukraine, unfortunately, you can say, | 不幸的是,乌克兰,你可以说, |
| 42 | really, the Ukraine is too small. | 实际上,乌克兰太小了。 |
| 43 | The Ukraine cannot win against Russia. | 乌克兰无法战胜俄罗斯。 |
| 44 | It is impossible. | 这是不可能的。 |
| 45 | When you say it's an already lost war, but Vladimir Putin has no interest in peace. | 当你说这是一场已经输掉的战争,但弗拉基米尔·普京对和平没有兴趣. |
| 46 | The Ukrainians say they would have a ceasefire. | 乌克兰人说,他们将实现停火。 |
| 47 | Can you give me one piece of evidence that he is | 你能给我一份证据证明他是 |
| 48 | interested in peace? | 对和平感兴趣吗? |
| 49 | Can you give me one piece of evidence that Zelensky is interested in peace? | 你能给我一份证据 证明泽伦斯基对和平感兴趣吗? |
| 50 | He's offered an energy ceasefire now. | 他现在提出能源停火 |
| 51 | They were in Florida talking about peace deals. | 他们在佛罗里达谈和谈 |
| 52 | The Ukrainians | 乌克兰人 |
| 53 | are absolutely willing to start talking about peace. | 绝对愿意开始谈论和平。 |
| 54 | It is Vladimir Putin who is not interested | 是弗拉基米尔·普京不感兴趣 |
| 55 | in a peace deal because he thinks that he can pulverize Ukrainian cities over the winter, | 在和约中,因为他认为 他能够摧毁 乌克兰的城市过冬, |
| 56 | as he is now doing. | 就像他现在所做的那样 |
| 57 | And it seems to me that what you are suggesting, and I just want to make sure | 在我看来你的建议 我只是想确定 |
| 58 | I've understood this, you are suggesting stopping all German financial and military support, | 我理解,你建议停止德国的财政和军事支持 |
| 59 | all European support. | 所有欧洲的支持。 |
| 60 | Is that right? | 是吗? |
| 61 | Is that your preferred policy? | 那是你喜欢的政策吗? |
| 62 | We already spent over 100 billion. | 我们已经花费了超过1000亿。 |
| 63 | No other country spent that much. | 没有其他国家花那么多钱。 |
| 64 | And we are highly | 我们都是高手 |
| 65 | indebted. | 负债。 |
| 66 | Yeah, I have the interests of my country first. | 是啊,我首先有 我的国家的利益。 |
| 67 | It's Germany first. | 是德国第一. |
| 68 | And this war is not in | 这场战争并不在 |
| 69 | our interest. | 我们的兴趣。 |
| 70 | And it's very, it's very dangerous for our national security. | 这对我们的国家安全非常危险 |
| 71 | In order to have a peace | 为了和平 |
| 72 | in the Ukraine, we need to take not only Ukraine's security interests into account, | 在乌克兰,我们不仅需要考虑到乌克兰的安全利益, |
| 73 | but also Russia's security interests into account. | 但也考虑到俄罗斯的安全利益。 |
| 74 | And this was in the past, and this has been the | 这是过去,这是 |
| 75 | major mistake like the 20 years before to not acknowledging the security concerns of Russia. | 20年前的重大错误是不承认俄罗斯的安全关切。 |
| 76 | Marine Le Pen is arguing for more ECB financing of infrastructure. | Marine Le Pen主张欧洲央行为基础设施提供更多资金。 |
| 77 | Of course. | 当然 |
| 78 | And so forth. | 及诸众生. |
| 79 | It's so cheap for France. | 法华下贱. |
| 80 | You have, she is likely, she is leading in the polls too. | 你有,她很可能, 她也在投票中领先。 |
| 81 | She may well become president of France. | 她很可能成为法国总统。 |
| 82 | What is a Europe going to look like if you're leading it | 一个欧洲会是什么样子 如果你领导它 |
| 83 | with your views and Marine Le Pen is leading it with her views? | 你的观点 和海洋勒庞 领导她的观点? |
| 84 | Germany is the main financier of | 德国是主要金融家 |
| 85 | and France receives the money, as well as other countries. | 法国和其他国家都收到这笔钱。 |
| 86 | Of course, she wants to, | 当然,她想, |
| 87 | from her perspective, I would do the same thing. | 从她的角度来看,我也会这么做 |
| 88 | She wants to do the best thing for our country. | 她想为国家做最好的事 |
| 89 | She wants to have free debt financing. | 她想免费举债 |
| 90 | Even though France is already in a huge debt crisis, | 尽管法国已经陷入了巨大的债务危机, |
| 91 | like with skyrocketing interest rates, I don't know what they're going to do at the capital markets, | 就像利率暴涨, 我不知道他们在资本市场会做什么, |
| 92 | but Germany already is in the same situation, almost in the same situation. | 但德国已经处于同样的状态 几乎处于同样的状态 |
| 93 | Our state debt is skyrocketing. | 我国国债暴涨. |
| 94 | Isn't there a risk that as financial markets digest what you're | 当金融市场消化你的本性时 难道没有风险吗? |
| 95 | saying and what she's saying, that Europe really does have a bond market crisis? | 她说欧洲真的有债券市场危机? |
| 96 | Oh, certainly. | 当然 |
| 97 | Certainly we're going to have a bond market crisis. | 我们肯定会有债券市场危机的 |
| 98 | So with such a high state debt, | 所以有了如此高的国家债务, |
| 99 | and it's not only France, it's also Italy, Spain, Portugal, and it's also Germany. | 不仅有法国,还有意大利,西班牙,葡萄牙,还有德国. |
| 100 | So with these | 所以用这些 |
| 101 | new debt programs of Germany, we already have rising interest rates at the capital market, | 德国的新债务计划 我们已经在资本市场上提高了利率 |
| 102 | and we are also a indebted country. | 我们也是一个负债国。 |
| 103 | I think there are many people of foreign | 我觉得有很多外国人 |
| 104 | background who are very frightened by the AFD in this country. | 被这个国家的民主联盟吓坏了 |
| 105 | So it would be helpful, I think, | 因此,这将是有帮助的,我认为, |
| 106 | for you to be very clear on this. | 让你明白这一点。 |
| 107 | People who are here legally, whether they are Syrian or Afghani | 合法居留的人 无论是叙利亚人还是阿富汗人 |
| 108 | or whatever, they can stay here and they are welcome by you. | 或者什么的,他们可以呆在这里, 他们受到你的欢迎。 |
| 109 | Well, to be honest, our law states, our asylum law states, that in the case that the reason | 说实话 我们的法律规定 庇护法规定 |
| 110 | for coming to our country, especially for the Syrians, let's take that example because you | 以你为例吧 |
| 111 | mentioned that, that the reason is gone for being here because there are refugees, asylum seekers, | 指出,由于存在难民、寻求庇护者,因此已不复存在。 |
| 112 | they need shelter. | 他们需要庇护。 |
| 113 | Here they get tons of money from the state, but it doesn't matter right now. | 他们从州里得到很多钱 但现在不重要 |
| 114 | They have to go back to their country. | 他们必须回到自己的国家。 |
| 115 | They have to leave our country. | 他们必须离开我们的国家。 |
| 116 | The law enforcement | 执法 |
| 117 | is very clear in Germany. | 在德国非常清楚。 |
| 118 | 100% of the Syrians, because the war ended in Syria, 100% of the | 100%的叙利亚人 因为战争在叙利亚结束,100%的叙利亚人 |
| 119 | Syrian citizens have to go back to their country, as well as the Afghans, which our government | 叙利亚公民必须回到他们的国家, 以及阿富汗人,我国政府 |
| 120 | decided to actually fly into our country. | 决定飞到我国去 |
| 121 | I don't know how you would possibly come to this | 我不知道你怎么会来这 |
| 122 | obnoxious policy to fly in Afghans out of Afghanistan because our crime rate has been | 由于我国的犯罪率一直很高,因此在阿富汗人中飞出阿富汗的可恶政策 |
| 123 | skyrocketing since 2015, since the border opening. | 自2015年起,边境开放后猛增. |
| 124 | The main group of the worst crimes like | 最严重的罪行主要有: |
| 125 | raping, like killing people, so the main category are Syrians and Afghans, so we need to | 强奸,就像杀人, 所以主要类别是叙利亚人和阿富汗人, 所以我们需要 |
| 126 | send these people back and we need to detain criminals and also religious extremist leaders. | 把这些人送回去,我们需要拘留罪犯以及宗教极端主义领导人。 |
| 127 | We don't want a caliphate in our country and I haven't mentioned the Ukrainians. | 我们不想要一个哈里发 在我们的国家 我还没有提到乌克兰人。 |
| 128 | Also, the | 还有 |
| 129 | Ukrainians have to leave our country when this war will be ended. | 乌克兰人必须在战争结束时离开我国。 |
| 130 | This is the sum of millions of | 这是几百万 |
| 131 | people because it adds up to four to five million, four roughly, and they have to leave our country. | 他们必须离开我们的国家。 |
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