如何交谈，让所有人都立刻喜欢你｜行为研究专家Vanessa
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | How do you know you talk too much? | 你怎么知道你说话太多了? |
| 0:01 | So the first thing is non-verbal cues. | 所以,第一件事是非语言提示。 |
| 0:03 | Someone is checking out if they are opening their mouth, | 有人在检查他们有没有张开嘴 |
| 0:06 | as if to say something. | 如是说言. |
| 0:07 | I call it the open fish. | 我称之为开口鱼。 |
| 0:08 | And that's a subtle cue that you talk too much. | 这是一个微妙的提示 你说话太多。 |
| 0:10 | Do you think they're listening right now | 你觉得他们现在在听吗? |
| 0:11 | and think, fuck, that's me? | 想想,他妈的,这就是我? |
| 0:12 | Yes. | 对 |
| 0:13 | And there was a recent study when they found | 最近他们发现 |
展开字幕全文（1992 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | How do you know you talk too much? | 你怎么知道你说话太多了? |
| 2 | So the first thing is non-verbal cues. | 所以,第一件事是非语言提示。 |
| 3 | Someone is checking out if they are opening their mouth, | 有人在检查他们有没有张开嘴 |
| 4 | as if to say something. | 如是说言. |
| 5 | I call it the open fish. | 我称之为开口鱼。 |
| 6 | And that's a subtle cue that you talk too much. | 这是一个微妙的提示 你说话太多。 |
| 7 | Do you think they're listening right now | 你觉得他们现在在听吗? |
| 8 | and think, fuck, that's me? | 想想,他妈的,这就是我? |
| 9 | Yes. | 对 |
| 10 | And there was a recent study when they found | 最近他们发现 |
| 11 | that 95% of people have worked with someone | 95%的人和别人一起工作过 |
| 12 | who talks too much. | 谁说话太多。 |
| 13 | Well, I have a do you talk too much test. | 好吧,我有一个你谈论太多测试。 |
| 14 | So there's five questions here. | 故此有五问. |
| 15 | And if you answer more than three times, | 如果你回答超过三次, |
| 16 | you're probably an over-talker. | 你可能是一个过度谈话。 |
| 17 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 18 | Because my next question is like, | 因为我的下一个问题是, |
| 19 | which one's worse, over-talking or under-talking? | 哪个更糟糕, 过度说话还是低调? |
| 20 | Well, I have spent the last 20 years | 我花了20年时间 |
| 21 | studying master conversationalists. | 学习主对话家. |
| 22 | And I found that it's the vehicle to get what you want. | 我发现这是得到你想要的东西的车 |
| 23 | And I'm a recovering awkward person. | 而我是一个康复 尴尬的人。 |
| 24 | And I really struggled with bad conversation | 我真的很难过 糟糕的谈话 |
| 25 | for a long time. | 长久以来 |
| 26 | But I think the next generations will be talking | 但我认为下一代会说话 |
| 27 | to technology more than they talk to humans. | 技术比他们和人类说话还要多 |
| 28 | And because we are having less conversations, | 因为我们的对话较少 |
| 29 | one in six people worldwide are affected by loneliness. | 全世界有六分之一的人受到孤独的影响。 |
| 30 | And I now more than ever am sending | 现在我比以往更需要送 |
| 31 | nine-minute voice notes to my friends. | 给我的朋友9分钟的语音留言 |
| 32 | But a voice note, it's the most selfish form of conversation. | 但语音音符,是最自私的对话形式. |
| 33 | But in this age of technological change, | 但在这个技术变革的时代, |
| 34 | the people who are masterful at conversation | 善于交谈的人 |
| 35 | are going to have an advantage. | 将有一个优势。 |
| 36 | But there's a blueprint to good conversation. | 但有好对话的蓝图. |
| 37 | And once you know the blueprint, it becomes easier. | 一旦你知道蓝图,就更容易了。 |
| 38 | For example, we devised three different | 例如,我们设计了三种不同的 |
| 39 | speed networking experiments with 500 speed networkers. | 以500个速度联网器进行速度联网实验. |
| 40 | And the best conversation starter was actually, | 最好的开场白是, |
| 41 | what was the highlight of your day? | 今天的亮点是什么? |
| 42 | Because the moment we asked, how are you? | 因为我们问的那一刻,你好吗? |
| 43 | What do you do? | 你们是做什么的? |
| 44 | They ran out of things to talk about. | 他们没话可说了 |
| 45 | But the worst question in the history of conversations | 但谈话史上最糟糕的问题 |
| 46 | is what the fuck. | 这他妈的是什么。 |
| 47 | But I also have a formula to immediately | 但我也有一个公式 立即 |
| 48 | bypass that small talk. | 绕过那个小话 |
| 49 | Also a secret door into charisma. | 亦是秘密门入魅力. |
| 50 | But also there are five archetypes. | 但也有5种原型. |
| 51 | And this is going to impact getting our promotion | 这会影响我们的晋升 |
| 52 | and finding your soulmate. | 找到你的灵魂伴侣 |
| 53 | And we're going to go through all of them. | 且道要过一切众生. |
| 54 | But what are the ways to get out of the bad conversation | 但怎样才能摆脱糟糕的谈话 |
| 55 | without offending people? | 没有冒犯别人? |
| 56 | Well, we tend to focus a lot on the first impression. | 我们往往把注意力集中在第一印象上 |
| 57 | But we don't really think about the end. | 但是我们并没有真正考虑结局. |
| 58 | But it's all really important. | 但这一切都很重要。 |
| 59 | And I discovered this framework. | 我发现了这个框架。 |
| 60 | So. | 所以说 So. |
| 61 | Here is a strange fact. | 这是一个奇怪的事实。 |
| 62 | Most of the people watching this right now, | 现在大多数观众都看这个 |
| 63 | about 58% of you, aren't yet subscribed to this channel. | 大约58%的你还没有订阅这个频道。 |
| 64 | Statistically, that is probably you. | 从统计学上看,大概是你 |
| 65 | So could I ask you a small favor? | 我能请你帮个小忙吗? |
| 66 | If this channel has ever given you any value at all, | 如果这个频道给了你任何价值 |
| 67 | please could you do me a favor | 你能帮我个忙吗? |
| 68 | and hit the subscribe button. | 点击订阅按钮。 |
| 69 | It costs nothing. | 毫无代价 |
| 70 | It helps us more than you could know. | 这比你知道的更能帮助我们 |
| 71 | And the bigger the channel gets, as you've seen, | 频道越大 如你所见 |
| 72 | the more we can invest in the guests and the production. | 我们能投资更多的客人和制作。 |
| 73 | So thank you so much. | 非常感谢 |
| 74 | And I hope you enjoy this episode. | 我希望你喜欢这集 |
| 75 | Vanessa Van Edwards. | 凡妮莎・范・爱德华兹。 |
| 76 | On page five of your new book, Conversations, | 在你新书的第5页 谈话 |
| 77 | you talk about how we're in a connection crisis. | 你说我们陷入了联系危机 |
| 78 | And you say that conversations are getting harder, | 你说谈话越来越困难 |
| 79 | more awkward, and less satisfying. | 更尴尬 更不满足 |
| 80 | At some level, I feel that too. | 某种程度上,我也觉得 |
| 81 | My question to you is why did you choose to write this book | 我问你为什么你选择写这本书 |
| 82 | based on everything you could have written about, | 根据你可能写的一切, |
| 83 | everything we've talked about before? | 我们之前谈过的每件事? |
| 84 | Why is this book needed at this time? | 为什么这书现在需要? |
| 85 | People who are investing in conversation skills right now | 投资谈话技巧的人 |
| 86 | are creating career insurance. | 正在创造职业保险。 |
| 87 | We like to work with people who are great at conversation. | 我们喜欢和善于交谈的人合作 |
| 88 | We like to be with people who are great at conversation. | 我们喜欢和善于交谈的人在一起 |
| 89 | We like to date people who are good at conversation. | 我们喜欢和善于交谈的人约会 |
| 90 | And in this age of tremendous technological change, | 在这个技术大变革的时代, |
| 91 | the people who are masterful at conversation | 善于交谈的人 |
| 92 | are going to have an advantage. | 将有一个优势。 |
| 93 | So I wrote this right now because we are slowly losing | 所以我现在写这个 是因为我们慢慢地输了 |
| 94 | our ability to connect. | 我们连接的能力。 |
| 95 | And I think this is the last generation | 我想这是最后一代人 |
| 96 | that will learn about conversation via human. | 了解人类的谈话 |
| 97 | I think the next generations will be talking to technology | 我想后人会谈论科技 |
| 98 | more than they talk to humans. | 比他们和人类说话还要多 |
| 99 | Is it possible to be great at conversation? | 在谈话中表现得好吗? |
| 100 | And if I become great at conversation | 如果我在对话中变得很棒 |
| 101 | through what we're about to talk about today, | 通过我们今天要谈的事 |
| 102 | what is the advantage that you're speaking about there? | 你在说什么好处? |
| 103 | What advantage will I experience in my life | 我这辈子有什么好处? |
| 104 | for everybody listening now? | 现在大家都在听吗? |
| 105 | What advantage will they see in their life | 他们的人生有什么好处 |
| 106 | relative to where they are now? | 相对于他们现在在哪里? |
| 107 | Conversation is the vehicle to get what you want. | 对话是获得你想要的东西的载体。 |
| 108 | Right, if you want a promotion | 对,如果你想升职 |
| 109 | and you can chat with your boss where they connect with you, | 你可以和你的老板聊天 他们联系你的地方 |
| 110 | you're more likely to be thought of for that promotion. | 你更有可能被考虑 升职。 |
| 111 | If you want to meet your soulmate, | 如果你想遇见你的灵魂伴侣, |
| 112 | you have to have deep, connected, | 你必须有深,连接, |
| 113 | meaningful conversation to truly get to know each other. | 进行有意义的对话,真正了解对方。 |
| 114 | If you are lonely, finding friends | 如果你孤独,找朋友 |
| 115 | that are actually fulfilling | 实际实现的 |
| 116 | and give you the joy of conversation | 并给你欢乐的谈话 |
| 117 | is going to give you a longevity boost. | 这会给你一个长寿助力。 |
| 118 | I think that the mistake that we have made | 我认为我们所犯的错误 |
| 119 | is we think of conversation as extra, you know? | 我们是否认为谈话是额外的,你知道吗? |
| 120 | We sort of put it second. | 我们把它放在第二。 |
| 121 | I know leaders focus on this a lot | 我知道头儿们很重视这个 |
| 122 | where they're focused so much on their idea, | 在那里,他们如此关注 他们的想法, |
| 123 | on their technology, on their business, | 他们的技术,他们的生意, |
| 124 | but they forget about the human element. | 但他们忘记了人的因素。 |
| 125 | And I think we have to start thinking about conversation | 我觉得我们得开始考虑谈话 |
| 126 | almost like going to the gym. | 就像去健身房一样 |
| 127 | You know, we've focused a lot on our physical health, | 你知道,我们已经专注于 我们的身体健康, |
| 128 | but our social health is critical to our emotional health. | 但我们的社会健康对我们的情感健康至关重要。 |
| 129 | Right, if we are doing conversation reps, | 好吧,如果我们做 谈话代表, |
| 130 | if we can truly become good at conversation, | 如果我们能真正成为好对话, |
| 131 | conversation I think is a skill to learn. | 我认为对话是学习的技巧 |
| 132 | I don't think you're born with it or you're not. | 我不认为你生来就是带着它或者你不是。 |
| 133 | I think you can learn to be good at conversation | 我想你可以学会善于交谈 |
| 134 | and it's the one skill that keeps on giving. | 这是唯一的技能 继续给予。 |
| 135 | Do people tend to know | 人们往往知道 |
| 136 | if they're good or bad at conversation? | 如果他们是好还是坏的对话? |
| 137 | Like are there symptoms one experiences | 就像有一种症状一样 |
| 138 | when they're not good at conversation? | 当他们不擅长交谈时? |
| 139 | Are they aware of that? | 他们知道吗? |
| 140 | Yes, there is symptoms of being a bad conversationalist. | 是的,有一个症状 一个坏的对话家。 |
| 141 | And by the way, I should back up. | 顺便说一句,我应该备份。 |
| 142 | As you know, I'm a recovering awkward person | 你知道,我是一个康复 尴尬的人 |
| 143 | and I really struggled with bad conversation | 和我真的挣扎 与糟糕的谈话 |
| 144 | for a long time. | 长久以来 |
| 145 | And I realized it was because I was asking | 我意识到是因为我问 |
| 146 | the wrong questions | 错误的问题 |
| 147 | and I was approaching conversation the wrong way. | 我走错了话 |
| 148 | The wrong way to approach conversation | 找错话了 |
| 149 | is trying to impress, not discover. | 试图打动,而不是发现。 |
| 150 | If you're trying to impress people, | 如果你是想打动别人 |
| 151 | conversation becomes performative | 对话成为可执行性 |
| 152 | and that is so deeply unfulfilling. | 这实在是太无能了 |
| 153 | Right, that is when small talk becomes | 对,就是说小话的时候 |
| 154 | soul crushing. | 灵魂压抑。 |
| 155 | I have spent the last 20 years | 我花了20年时间 |
| 156 | studying master conversationalists. | 学习主对话家. |
| 157 | Master conversationalists, | 对话大师 |
| 158 | they live differently in the world. | 他们生活的世界不同。 |
| 159 | And I only know this | 我只知道这个 |
| 160 | because I wasn't one for a long time. | 因为我很久没当过 |
| 161 | They are not only more joyous, | 他们不仅是更快乐的, |
| 162 | but they're also more confident. | 但他们也更有信心。 |
| 163 | They're more authentically assertive. | 他们更真实的自信。 |
| 164 | They get more energy from interactions, | 他们从互动中获得更多的能量, |
| 165 | whether they're an introvert or extrovert, | 无论他们是内向还是外向 |
| 166 | because their conversations are giving them energy, | 因为他们的谈话给他们带来活力, |
| 167 | not taking energy. | 不消耗精力。 |
| 168 | The symptom of bad conversation, | 恶谈的症状, |
| 169 | and I hate to give someone a label | 我讨厌给别人贴标签 |
| 170 | being a bad conversationalist, | 作为一个糟糕的谈话家, |
| 171 | an exhausted conversationalist, | 一个疲惫的谈话家, |
| 172 | is you dread it. | 你害怕吗? |
| 173 | Dread is a really important emotion. | 可怕的是一种非常重要的情感。 |
| 174 | If you open your calendar and you see only dread | 如果你打开你的日历,你只看到恐惧 |
| 175 | or you feel only dread, there's something wrong. | 或者你只是觉得害怕, 有点不对劲。 |
| 176 | Right, conversation like boosts us, | 对,像对话一样的推动我们 |
| 177 | gives us energy. | 给我们能量。 |
| 178 | So you feel dread in social interactions. | 所以你在社交互动中感到恐惧。 |
| 179 | You feel overwhelmed when you're in conversation. | 谈话时你感到不堪重负 |
| 180 | So if you're in conversation | 所以,如果你在谈话 |
| 181 | and you're social overthinking, | 你却在社会上思考过度 |
| 182 | you cannot turn your brain off. | 你不能把你的大脑关闭。 |
| 183 | All you're worried about | 你所担心的 |
| 184 | was what you're gonna say next. | 你接下来会说什么? |
| 185 | It's actually just because you probably haven't learned | 其实是因为你可能还没学过 |
| 186 | the mechanics of conversation. | 谈话的力学 |
| 187 | There's a blueprint to good conversation. | 有好对话的蓝图。 |
| 188 | We're gonna talk about it. | 我们要谈谈 |
| 189 | Once you know the blueprint, it becomes easier. | 一旦你知道蓝图,它变得更容易。 |
| 190 | And the last symptom of bad conversation | 还有最后的恶语症状 |
| 191 | is that you leave feeling misunderstood. | 你离开的时候 感觉被误解了 |
| 192 | You leave feeling like I was the worst version of myself, | 你离开的感觉 像我是最糟糕的版本我自己, |
| 193 | or I wasn't able to be my best self. | 或者我不能成为我最好的自己。 |
| 194 | I think really good conversationalists, | 我认为真正的好对话家, |
| 195 | people leave conversation with them thinking, | 人们离开谈话 他们想, |
| 196 | wow, after talking to you, | 哇,和你说话后, |
| 197 | I feel like I understand myself better. | 我觉得我更了解自己 |
| 198 | And that's a very different way of thinking about, | 这是非常不同的思考方式, |
| 199 | oh, I wanna impress somebody. | 我想给别人留下深刻印象 |
| 200 | So how long have you spent doing the research | 所以,你花了多长时间 做研究 |
| 201 | that feeds into what we're gonna talk about today | 供我们今天讨论的内容 |
| 202 | and feeds into this new book? | 并输入这本新书? |
| 203 | Okay, so accidentally, | 好吧,所以无意中, |
| 204 | I've been doing research for this my whole life | 我这一辈子都在做研究 |
| 205 | because I was very bad at conversation for 20 years. | 因为我20年来一直很不擅长谈话 |
| 206 | Then 20 years ago, | 后来20年前 |
| 207 | I realized that there are these hidden blueprints | 我意识到有这些隐藏的蓝图 |
| 208 | behind our interactions. | 我们互动背后。 |
| 209 | I wasn't quite sure what they were, | 我不知道他们是什么 |
| 210 | but I could see that very good conversationalists, | 但我能看见那个很好的谈话家 |
| 211 | they were following some kind of plan. | 他们正在遵循某种计划 |
| 212 | Then eight years ago, | 之后8年前, |
| 213 | this is when the real research began, | 这是真正的研究开始的时候 |
| 214 | and it started with an experiment. | 从实验开始的 |
| 215 | I call it my speed networking experiment. | 我称之为我的速度联网实验。 |
| 216 | This fundamentally changed the way I think about conversation. | 这从根本上改变了我对对话的看法。 |
| 217 | So here's what we did. | 这就是我们所做的 |
| 218 | I knew there was some secret that conversationalists had, | 我知道对话者有秘密 |
| 219 | and I was like, I'm gonna find it. | 我当时想,我会找到它。 |
| 220 | So we devised three different speed networking experiments | 所以我们设计了三个不同的速度网络实验 |
| 221 | with 500 speed networkers. | 有500个速度网络 |
| 222 | We brought them in these rooms, | 我们把他们带到这些房间 |
| 223 | and we had cameras set up in all four corners of the room | 我们把摄像头布置在房间里的四角 |
| 224 | because good conversation looks different. | 因为良好的谈话看起来不同。 |
| 225 | Really good conversation. | 谈话很愉快 |
| 226 | You've seen, do you ever like, you know- | 你见过,你曾经喜欢,你知道... |
| 227 | Of course. | 当然 |
| 228 | I love it. | 我喜欢它。 |
| 229 | Adam has fun. | 亚当有乐趣。 |
| 230 | Yeah, yeah, with my fiance. | 对,对,我未婚夫 |
| 231 | Are they having a bad day? | 他们今天过得不好吗? |
| 232 | So, you know, a good conversation is a lot of gestures, | 所以,你知道,一个很好的谈话 是很多姿态, |
| 233 | a lot of leaning, you know, has that high energy, | 很多倾斜,你知道, 有那么高的能量, |
| 234 | you see a lot of vocal charisma. | 你可以看到很多声乐魅力。 |
| 235 | The volume goes up. | 卷上传. |
| 236 | In a bad conversation, it sort of sounds like this. | 在糟糕的谈话中,听起来有点像这样。 |
| 237 | I'm having, how are we in the house? | 我吃过了,家里怎么样? |
| 238 | I don't know, there's a mama. | 我不知道,有一个妈妈。 |
| 239 | Right, like it has like very low energy, | 对 就像能量很低一样 |
| 240 | like apologetic facial expressions, like low volume. | 就像口腔面部表情,像低音量 |
| 241 | Then I assigned these networkers six conversation charters. | 之后我给这些网络商分配了六份谈话章程. |
| 242 | Now I picked these conversation charters, | 现在我选了这些谈话章程 |
| 243 | I'm gonna tell you what they are, very carefully. | 我会告诉你他们是什么,非常小心。 |
| 244 | Three of them I thought could do really well, | 其中三个我认为可以做的非常好, |
| 245 | and three of them I wasn't sure about, I wanted to see. | 三个我不确定 我想看看 |
| 246 | We gave them these six conversation charters | 我们给了他们这六个谈话章程 |
| 247 | and we asked them after each timed conversation | 我们每次聊天后都问他们 |
| 248 | to rate the quality of it. | 评分它的质量。 |
| 249 | One being, that was the worst, | 一个是,那是最糟糕的, |
| 250 | most awkward conversation I've ever had, | 我见过最尴尬的谈话 |
| 251 | to five being, that was the best conversation I ever had, | 5岁时,这是我最好的谈话, |
| 252 | I wanna marry this person, | 我想嫁给这个人, |
| 253 | or I wanna connect with them on LinkedIn. | 或者我想在LinkedIn上和他们联系 |
| 254 | Then we took all these ratings and we ranked them, | 然后我们把所有这些收视率 并排序, |
| 255 | and there were clear winners and clear losers. | 有明显的胜利者和明显的失败者。 |
| 256 | The losers, the conversations that produced | 失败者,产生对话 |
| 257 | the worst connection, the most awkwardness were, | 关系最差 最尴尬的是 |
| 258 | last choice, wanna guess what last choice was? | 最后的选择,想猜猜最后的选择是什么? |
| 259 | Last. | 最后一个 |
| 260 | In terms of an opener? | 就开机而言? |
| 261 | In terms of just a question. | 仅以问之. |
| 262 | A typical question you ask the first minute. | 一个典型的问题 你问的第一分钟。 |
| 263 | How were you? | 你怎么样? |
| 264 | Number five, that was the fifth worst, | 五号,那是第五大烂人 |
| 265 | very close to the bottom. | 离底部很远 |
| 266 | Sixth was? | 第六场? |
| 267 | Something about the weather? | 天气怎么样? |
| 268 | What do you do? | 你们是做什么的? |
| 269 | That was the worst? | 这是最糟糕的? |
| 270 | The worst. | 最烂的。 |
| 271 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 272 | Why? | 为什么? |
| 273 | So these last two, how are you and what do you do? | 最后两个,你好吗? |
| 274 | They're very socially scripted, right? | 他们都是社会剧本,对吧? |
| 275 | The moment we ask those questions, | 当我们问到这些问题时, |
| 276 | our brain goes into autopilot, | 我们的大脑进入自动驾驶 |
| 277 | so there's a lack, it aids more of a performance, | 因此,有一个缺乏, 它帮助更多的表演, |
| 278 | there's a lack of excitement in the conversation, | 谈话中缺乏刺激 |
| 279 | and they ran out of things to talk about. | 他们没有话要说 |
| 280 | They're fact-based questions, | 他们是基于事实的问题, |
| 281 | and this is the trap of what we'll call | 这就是我们所谓的陷阱 |
| 282 | level one conversation, which is you are trapped in fact. | 一级对话,那就是你被困住了 |
| 283 | Where are you from? | 你从哪里来? |
| 284 | Got any kids? | 有孩子吗? |
| 285 | Married? | 结婚了? |
| 286 | The facts are dead ends, right? | 事实都是死胡同,对吧? |
| 287 | So it's very hard for someone to break out of that fact | 所以有人很难摆脱这个事实 |
| 288 | because they're stuck in that social script. | 因为他们被困在 社交剧本。 |
| 289 | The best conversation starter was actually a sneaker. | 最好的开始对话者其实是运动鞋. |
| 290 | I was like, interesting that this one did best by a lot. | 我很喜欢,有趣的是, 这一个做得最好的很多。 |
| 291 | It was, what was the highlight of your day? | 今天的亮点是什么? |
| 292 | Now, what this question does psychologically, | 现在,这个问题的心理作用, |
| 293 | it sounds casual. | 听起来很随意 |
| 294 | First of all, it's not too deep. | 首先,它并不太深。 |
| 295 | A mistake that extroverts can make | 外向者可能犯的错误 |
| 296 | is they ask too deep too quickly, right? | 他们问得太深了,对不对? |
| 297 | They're like, what is your greatest goal in life? | 他们喜欢, 什么是你最大的目标 在生活中? |
| 298 | And you're like, I don't know you, right? | 你就像,我不认识你,对不对? |
| 299 | So it's not too deep, | 因此,它不是太深, |
| 300 | but it's a subtle replacement for how are you. | 但它是一个微妙的替代 你怎么样。 |
| 301 | You're actually asking the other person's brain | 你其实是在问别人的大脑 |
| 302 | to search for optimism. | 寻找乐观 |
| 303 | You're literally inviting their brain to think | 你是在邀请他们的大脑思考 |
| 304 | what was good? | 什么好东西? |
| 305 | And then they think, well, highlight of my day. | 然后他们想,嗯, 亮我的一天。 |
| 306 | So one, we just broke autopilot. | 第一,我们只是坏了自动驾驶。 |
| 307 | The moment someone goes, oh, | 当有人去,哦, |
| 308 | and they're thinking for the first time, | 他们第一次想到, |
| 309 | their brain goes, ooh, we get to do something new. | 他们的大脑去, 哦,我们有 做一些新的东西。 |
| 310 | So they got to think of something new, | 所以他们得想些新的东西 |
| 311 | and it was immediate. | 并且是立即发生的。 |
| 312 | It wasn't like a too big of a question. | 这不是一个太大的问题。 |
| 313 | The second question was, | 第二个问题是, |
| 314 | have anything exciting you're working on? | 你有什么刺激的吗? |
| 315 | This is kind of a subtle replacement for what do you do. | 这是一种微妙的替代 你做什么。 |
| 316 | If someone likes what they do, | 如果有人喜欢他们做的事 |
| 317 | they're gonna talk about it, | 他们会谈论它, |
| 318 | but they're gonna reframe it in something exciting. | 但他们会把它重新塑造成令人兴奋的东西 |
| 319 | And if someone isn't defined by what they do, | 如果有人没有被定义 他们做什么, |
| 320 | they're going to share something better. | 他们将分享更好的东西。 |
| 321 | The third question, very, very simple, | 第三个问题 非常非常简单 |
| 322 | was do you have any fun plans coming up? | 你有什么有趣的计划吗? |
| 323 | These questions, the first three, | 这些问题,前三个, |
| 324 | are literally searching for good. | 正在寻找好东西。 |
| 325 | You're inviting the other person | 你邀请了另一个人 |
| 326 | to only think about good things, | 只想着美好的事物, |
| 327 | and we're juicing excitement for other parts of their life. | 我们为他们生命中的其他部分欢呼 |
| 328 | Now the fourth question, the middle one, | 现在第四个问题,中间一个, |
| 329 | almost broke my data. | 差点打破我的数据 |
| 330 | And this is where things really got interesting for me | 这才是我真正感兴趣的地方 |
| 331 | as a researcher. | 作为一名研究员。 |
| 332 | This fourth question, people either loved it | 这第四个问题,人们要么喜欢它 |
| 333 | or they hated it. | 或者他们讨厌它。 |
| 334 | They either gave it a five | 他们要么给它一个5 |
| 335 | that was like the most connective thing I felt all week | 这就像最连接的东西 我整个星期的感觉 |
| 336 | or a zero, and a zero wasn't even an option on my scale. | 或者一个零,一个零甚至不是一个选项 在我的规模。 |
| 337 | It was the question. | 这是问题所在。 |
| 338 | What's your story? | 你的故事怎么样? |
| 339 | Now, what's your story? | 现在,你的故事是什么? |
| 340 | Have you ever been asked that question, by the way? | 顺便问一句 你被问过这个问题吗? |
| 341 | Derivatives of that question. | 这个问题的来源。 |
| 342 | Okay, so extroverts tend to default to that question | 好吧,所以外向者往往默认这个问题 |
| 343 | because they wanna go a little bit deeper. | 因为他们想更深入一点 |
| 344 | But actually, that is a level three question. | 但实际上,这是一个三级问题。 |
| 345 | It is way too advanced. | 这太先进了 |
| 346 | For someone who's introverted | 对于一个内向的人 |
| 347 | or someone who has never framed their story that quickly, | 或从未如此迅速地编造故事的人, |
| 348 | they're immediately put into cortisol. | 它们立刻被放进皮质醇中 |
| 349 | They're immediately put into fight or flight. | 他们立即投入战斗或逃亡. |
| 350 | They're like, what's my story? | 他们喜欢, 什么是我的故事? |
| 351 | How can I give that to you so quickly? | 我怎么能这么快就给你? |
| 352 | So you're, by accident, putting them | 所以你是偶然放出来的 |
| 353 | into conversational fear. | 变成对话恐惧 |
| 354 | This is when I realized there's a hierarchy. | 这时候我才意识到有等级制度 |
| 355 | We have to move through our conversations | 我们必须通过我们的对话 |
| 356 | with different levels, right? | 不同级别,对不对? |
| 357 | This is why we have this. | 这就是为什么我们有这个。 |
| 358 | So for anyone that can't see | 所以对于看不见的人来说 |
| 359 | because you're listening on Apple Music | 因为你在听苹果音乐 |
| 360 | or Spotify or whatever, | 或专注什么的, |
| 361 | we have a three tier little stage in front of us. | 我们前面有三层小舞台 |
| 362 | Tier one, tier two, tier three. | 一级,二级,三级. |
| 363 | What are these three tiers? | 这三层是什么? |
| 364 | 好吧,所以医生Dan McAdams发现 | |
| 365 | that conversation is actually not as fluid | 谈话其实不是那么流畅 |
| 366 | as we would like to think. | 正如我们所想的那样。 |
| 367 | But actually, when we're trying to connect with someone else, | 但实际上,当我们试图与他人联系时, |
| 368 | we are trying to move through three distinct levels. | 我们正试图跨越三个不同的层面。 |
| 369 | Level one is called general traits. | 一级称为一般特征. |
| 370 | This is why in those first few minutes, | 这就是为什么在最初几分钟, |
| 371 | you're basically trying to Google fact check someone. | 你基本上试图谷歌 事实检查某人。 |
| 372 | Where are you from? | 你从哪里来? |
| 373 | What do you do? | 你们是做什么的? |
| 374 | Married, where do you live in L.A.? | 已婚,你住在洛杉矶哪里? |
| 375 | You're trying to ask all those questions | 你想问那么多问题 |
| 376 | because there's a sort of social hierarchy. | 因为有某种社会等级。 |
| 377 | Our brain processes social facts | 我们的大脑处理社会事实 |
| 378 | from least intimate to most intimate. | 从最亲密到最亲密 |
| 379 | So we cannot get to know someone | 所以我们不能认识一个人 |
| 380 | on their deepest dreams and worries | 他们最深的梦想和忧虑 |
| 381 | if we don't know the basic facts about them. | 如果我们不知道他们的基本事实。 |
| 382 | So that is why we often fall into that trap | 所以我们经常陷入陷阱 |
| 383 | of those fact-based questions. | 这些基于事实的问题。 |
| 384 | The key here is that really good level one question | 这里的关键是,一个问题非常的好 |
| 385 | is taking those facts, but adding story, | 正在接受这些事实, 但补充的故事, |
| 386 | but adding emotion. | 但增加情绪。 |
| 387 | So the best way to do level one better | 所以,最好的方法 做一级更好 |
| 388 | is you're swapping out those bad questions, right? | 你是在交换那些坏问题吧? |
| 389 | How are you, what do you do with looking for a story? | 你怎么样,你做什么 寻找一个故事? |
| 390 | I truly believe a fact is a stop sign, | 我真的相信一个事实是一个停止的迹象, |
| 391 | a story is a doorway. | 一个故事是门路。 |
| 392 | Give me an example of both. | 举个例子 |
| 393 | Okay, so one of them, we can place it on here, | 好吧,所以其中一个, 我们可以把它放在这里, |
| 394 | is what's your personal passion project? | 你的个人激情项目是什么? |
| 395 | Now, what's your personal passion project | 现在,什么是你的个人激情项目 |
| 396 | is actually a hunt for stories, right? | 其实是寻找故事,对吧? |
| 397 | And would you open with that? | 你会打开吗? |
| 398 | Is that what you're saying? | 你是这么说的吗? |
| 399 | Or is it doesn't really matter? | 还是真的不重要? |
| 400 | It has to come, it can come in the first few minutes. | 它必须来,它可以来 在最初的几分钟。 |
| 401 | Now, I probably wouldn't walk into a room | 现在,我可能不会走进一个房间 |
| 402 | and be like, what's your personal passion product, Stephen? | 你的个人激情产品是什么 Stephen? |
| 403 | Right, it's a little bit much. | 对,有点多 |
| 404 | We have to do our basic first impression | 我们必须做我们的基本 第一印象 |
| 405 | and we can talk about first 10 words in a little bit, | 我们可以先谈10个字 |
| 406 | but as an opener question, it's better than how are you? | 但作为一个更开放的问题, 它更好比你怎么样? |
| 407 | And I have to pause here and say, | 我不得不停下来说, |
| 408 | everything I'm gonna share takes a little bit | 我要分享的一切 需要一点点 |
| 409 | of conversational courage. | 对话的勇气。 |
| 410 | It's really safe to ask how are you? | 问如何是真安隐. |
| 411 | It's really safe to ask what do you do, | 问你们是做什么的 真的很安全 |
| 412 | but if you wanna be memorable, | 但如果你想成为难忘的, |
| 413 | if you wanna actually spark connection, | 如果你想真正点燃连接, |
| 414 | those won't serve you. | 那些不会为你效劳的 |
| 415 | So it does take a little bit of courage to ask this, | 所以问这个需要一点勇气 |
| 416 | but the answers you're gonna get are incredibly interesting. | 但你会得到的答案 令人难以置信的有趣。 |
| 417 | You're gonna get stories, you're gonna get a hint at values. | 你会得到故事, 你会得到一个暗示的价值。 |
| 418 | If you wanna know if they're married or have kids, | 如果你想知道他们是已婚还是有孩子 |
| 419 | they probably will tell you by accident. | 他们可能会无意中告诉你 |
| 420 | So it's like a hunt for stories. | 所以这就像一个狩猎的故事。 |
| 421 | Same with, right, I mentioned this one in the study, | 同样的,对,我在书房提到这个, |
| 422 | so working on anything exciting these days. | 所以现在在忙什么刺激的事 |
| 423 | This is, again, one of my favorite swap questions | 这又是我最喜欢的交换问题之一 |
| 424 | because you're hunting for something good. | 因为你在找好东西 |
| 425 | Now, when I think about conversation, | 现在,当我想到谈话时, |
| 426 | in level one, you're trying to gift someone | 在一级,你试图给某人 |
| 427 | a chemical cocktail a little bit. | 化学鸡尾酒一点点。 |
| 428 | And I think in level one, | 我认为在一级, |
| 429 | these two questions are doing a lot of heavy lifting. | 这两个问题 正在做很多的举重。 |
| 430 | They are now competing with your feed. | 他们现在正在和你的饲料竞争 |
| 431 | I went to a PTA meeting recently and those are torture, | 我最近去参加PTA会议 那些是折磨 |
| 432 | if you've ever been to one for any parents. | 如果你曾经去过一个 为任何父母。 |
| 433 | What's a PTA meeting? | 什么是PTA会议? |
| 434 | Oh, a parent-teacher meeting. | 哦,家长教师会议。 |
| 435 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 436 | Right, so a bunch of other parents in the room. | 对 房间里有一堆其他父母 |
| 437 | I wanted to go meet other moms | 我想去见其他妈妈 |
| 438 | because I just moved across the country | 因为我刚搬到全国各地 |
| 439 | to try to meet more people. | 试图满足更多的人。 |
| 440 | And I was excited. | 我很兴奋 |
| 441 | I was like, okay, I'm gonna meet more moms, here we go. | 我本来想,好吧,我要去 见更多的妈妈,我们走了。 |
| 442 | And I walk in the room and everyone's scrolling. | 我走在房间里 每个人都在滚动。 |
| 443 | Everyone's on their feed. | 皆悉供养. |
| 444 | And I realized, wow, conversation now | 我意识到,哇,现在的对话 |
| 445 | is not just about a way for me to make friends. | 不仅仅是我交朋友的方式 |
| 446 | It actually has to compete with that feed. | 它实际上必须和饲料竞争。 |
| 447 | I have to make my questions and my answers | 我必须提出我的问题和答案 |
| 448 | so dopamine-worthy that they're actually | 因此,多巴胺值 他们实际上 |
| 449 | going to beat that feed. | 将击败饲料。 |
| 450 | Otherwise, they're gonna go right back to their phone. | 否则,他们会回到他们的手机。 |
| 451 | That is why these have to do more lifting | 这就是为什么他们必须做更多的提升 |
| 452 | because if I wanna compete with the feed, | 因为如果我想和饲料竞争 |
| 453 | I have to produce dopamine, a little bit of excitement, | 我必须生产多巴胺, 有点兴奋, |
| 454 | a little bit of motivation. | 有一点动机 |
| 455 | I also have to create what I would call, | 我也得创造出我所谓的 |
| 456 | forgive me for this word, but conversational confetti. | 原谅我的这个词, 但谈话孔雀。 |
| 457 | This is like, we gotta lift a little bit more | 这就像,我们得 抬多一点 |
| 458 | in our conversations because otherwise, | 在我们的谈话中 因为否则 |
| 459 | someone's gonna go right back to scrolling. | 有人会回到卷轴。 |
| 460 | Their brain is somewhere else. | 他们的大脑在别的地方。 |
| 461 | Either their brain is in their email list | 要么他们的大脑在他们的电子邮件列表中 |
| 462 | or their brain is on their feed. | 或者他们的大脑在他们的喂食。 |
| 463 | In this research, when I was studying | 在研究中,当我学习时 |
| 464 | amazing conversationalists, | 惊人的谈话家, |
| 465 | one of the one people I studied is Howard Stern. | 我研究过的人之一是霍华德·斯特恩 |
| 466 | However you feel about Howard Stern, | 不管你对霍华德·斯特恩有什么感觉 |
| 467 | he is a master conversationalist. | 他是一个主对话家。 |
| 468 | He can carry on long, very interesting. | 他可以继续很长,非常有趣。 |
| 469 | He gets people to say things that I could never imagine. | 他让别人说出我无法想象的话 |
| 470 | I analyzed thousands of transcripts of his interviews | 我分析了上千份他的采访记录 |
| 471 | and I found one pattern. | 我发现了一个模式。 |
| 472 | He does a very good job of creating information gaps. | 他在创造信息差距方面做得非常好。 |
| 473 | He'll say, what's the weirdest thing you've ever done? | 他会说,你做过的最奇怪的事是什么? |
| 474 | Or he'll say, the most surprising thing | 否则他会说 最令人惊讶的事 |
| 475 | that happened to me yesterday, | 昨天发生在我身上, |
| 476 | do you wanna hear what it was? | 你想听听是什么吗? |
| 477 | And your brain doesn't like not knowing. | 而你的大脑不喜欢不知道。 |
| 478 | So when it hears the most surprising, the weirdest, | 所以,当它听到最令人惊讶, 最奇怪, |
| 479 | the biggest, the worst, the most embarrassing, | 最大,最糟糕,最尴尬, |
| 480 | the brain creates this gap. | 大脑创造了这个缺口。 |
| 481 | Like it's this information gap where the brain is like, | 就像大脑所在的信息空白一样 |
| 482 | I have to know, what is the weirdest thing? | 我必须知道,什么是 最奇怪的事情? |
| 483 | So also what happens with these kinds of questions | 这些问题会怎样? |
| 484 | is we're creating these little information gaps | 我们是在创造这些小信息缺口 |
| 485 | and actually saying and using in conversation these phrases | 而实际上在谈话中说和使用这些短语 |
| 486 | is a way that we can create more intrigue and interest. | 这是一种我们可以创造更多兴趣和兴趣的方式。 |
| 487 | And I know that sounds like, what? | 我知道这听起来像什么? |
| 488 | But think about this. | 但是想想这个。 |
| 489 | If something crazy happened to you yesterday | 如果昨天发生了什么疯狂的事 |
| 490 | and you walk into dinner and you're like, | 你走进晚餐,你喜欢, |
| 491 | guys, the craziest thing happened to me yesterday, | 伙计们,我昨天发生了最疯狂的事, |
| 492 | everyone's like, phone's down, right? | 每个人都喜欢,电话的关闭,对不对? |
| 493 | Now I couldn't say something boring. | 现在我不能说些无聊的话 |
| 494 | I couldn't be like, I was stuck in traffic. | 我不能像, 我被堵在交通。 |
| 495 | Unless you wanna be funny. | 除非你想开玩笑 |
| 496 | But I think that looking for opportunities | 但我认为寻找机会 |
| 497 | to create that little bit of conversational confetti, | 来创造一点点的谈话孔雀, |
| 498 | they come up with questions like this. | 他们想出这样的问题 |
| 499 | And this is the last one. | 这是最后一个了 |
| 500 | So have any fun plans coming up? | 有什么好玩的计划吗? |
| 501 | No, the reason why this one is important | 不,这个很重要的原因 |
| 502 | and I agonized over this third question | 我对第三个问题感到烦恼 |
| 503 | because there's three questions for each level | 因为每个关卡有三个问题 |
| 504 | is have any fun plans coming up is a subtle way | 任何有趣的计划 即将到来是一个微妙的方法 |
| 505 | to bring up potential shared future. | 带来潜在的共享未来。 |
| 506 | Psychologically speaking, we bond with someone | 从心理上讲,我们和某人在一起 |
| 507 | when we feel like we could do something fun with them | 当我们觉得我们可以 做一些有趣的事情与他们 |
| 508 | or they're doing something fun that I would also like to do. | 或者他们正在做一些我想做的事 |
| 509 | I think that part of these questions | 我认为这些问题的一部分 |
| 510 | is being known for asking better questions. | 以提出更好的问题而闻名。 |
| 511 | Like being known for hunting for excitement. | 就像因为兴奋而出名 |
| 512 | So what will happen is with people who know you at work | 所以,会发生什么的人 谁认识你在工作中 |
| 513 | or your work friends or outside of work friends | 或工作朋友或工作朋友以外的人 |
| 514 | is they'll bring these things to you. | 他们会把这些东西带给你 |
| 515 | They know that you're gonna ask out personal passions. | 他们知道你会问个人的激情。 |
| 516 | So next time you get to say, | 所以,下一次你得到说, |
| 517 | hey, last time we were talking, you mentioned X, Y, Z. | 嘿,上次我们谈话时, 你提到X,Y,Z。 |
| 518 | How's that going? | 怎么样? |
| 519 | So they also become your callbacks. | 所以他们也成了你的回话 |
| 520 | They make conversation easier later. | 他们让谈话变得容易一些 |
| 521 | Everybody's starting from a remarkably different place | 每个人的起点都不同 |
| 522 | here, aren't they? | 这里,不是吗? |
| 523 | In terms of both skill, but also like will. | 在两种技能上,但也有类似意志. |
| 524 | Energy and like willing to do it. | 能量和喜欢做它。 |
| 525 | I think there'll be a lot of, | 我想会有很多 |
| 526 | one might say introverts listening right now, | 人们可能会说 内向者听现在, |
| 527 | but just think, what's the fucking point? | 但想想,有什么他妈的意义? |
| 528 | Like, I don't like people anyway, and it's so much energy | 喜欢,我不喜欢人反正, 它是如此的精力 |
| 529 | and I've got to ask these questions | 我必须问这些问题 |
| 530 | and pretend to be interested. | 假装感兴趣 |
| 531 | This is gonna drain me. | 这会耗尽我的精力 |
| 532 | Oh my gosh, I agree and two things can be true. | 天啊 我同意 两件事都是真的 |
| 533 | It's very exhausting in the sense of you're trying, right? | 从你尝试的意义上来说,这很累吧? |
| 534 | Like we're putting energy into conversation, | 就像我们把精力投入到对话中 |
| 535 | but it's also exhausting to have really shallow small talk. | 说些很浅的小话也很累 |
| 536 | I find it exhausting to stand at an event | 我发现站在一个事件上很累 |
| 537 | or be schmoozing with people backstage | 或者跟后台的人乱搞 |
| 538 | and be talking about nothing. | 和谈什么。 |
| 539 | Do you wanna have very boring, predictable conversation | 你想谈些无聊的,可预测的话题吗? |
| 540 | where you're less memorable and they're less memorable | 在那里,你不太难忘, 他们也不太难忘 |
| 541 | 你就等着回Netflix? | |
| 542 | That's one heart. | 即为一心. |
| 543 | That's not what I would choose. | 那不是我选的 |
| 544 | Or do we choose the heart of I'm gonna break a script, right? | 或者我们选择心脏 我要打破一个剧本,对不对? |
| 545 | I'm gonna try to do level one better. | 我会试着做一级更好的。 |
| 546 | I'm gonna try to trigger a little bit of dopamine. | 我会尝试触发一点多巴胺。 |
| 547 | I'm gonna try to learn something that I didn't know before, | 我要试着学一些以前不知道的东西 |
| 548 | which is going to maybe, just maybe bring joy. | 这会带来欢乐 |
| 549 | If you get a really great answer, by the way, | 如果你得到一个非常好的答案,顺便说一句, |
| 550 | there's two sides of conversation, talking and asking. | 谈话和问话有两面 |
| 551 | I think even for those introverts, | 我想即使对那些内向者来说 |
| 552 | they have really, really big goals in their life | 他们有真正的,真正的重大目标 在他们的生活 |
| 553 | that they care about. | 他们关心的。 |
| 554 | And so I think connecting this level one stuff | 所以我想把这个关卡连接起来 |
| 555 | to the highest goals is like critical | 对最高目标来说就像关键 |
| 556 | for the behavior to occur and for it to like net out | 让行为发生 和它喜欢净出 |
| 557 | in the incentive equation, it's been worthwhile. | 在奖励方程式中,这是值得的。 |
| 558 | Cause if you can tell me how asking, | 因为如果你能告诉我怎么问 |
| 559 | have any flop fund plans coming up | 任何浮动基金计划即将到来 |
| 560 | is gonna help me become a better CEO or founder | 帮助我成为更好的CEO或创始人 |
| 561 | or whoever I wanna be, father, mom, daughter, whatever, | 或者我想成为谁, 父亲,妈妈,女儿,不管什么, |
| 562 | then I'm in. | 那我进去了 |
| 563 | Yes. | 对 |
| 564 | Okay, so let's talk about founders and CEOs specifically. | 好吧,我们来谈谈创始人和首席执行官 |
| 565 | There is a mistaken belief, | 有一个错误的信念, |
| 566 | and I work with a lot of companies, right? | 我和很多公司一起工作 对吧? |
| 567 | With a lot of founders. | 与许多创始人. |
| 568 | They believe that conversation is anti-productive. | 他们认为对话是有害的。 |
| 569 | They worry that, oh, I don't know | 他们担心,哦,我不知道 |
| 570 | if I want my employees to talk a lot. | 如果我想我的员工多说话。 |
| 571 | I can't waste time on small talk. | 我不能浪费时间在小谈。 |
| 572 | The research shows the opposite. | 研究表明相反。 |
| 573 | And also logically, if you think this through, | 还有逻辑上的 如果你仔细想想 |
| 574 | connected people collaborate better, | 联系人更好地合作, |
| 575 | engaged employees work better together. | 就业雇员合作得更好。 |
| 576 | We are more productive when we feel good. | 当我们感觉好的时候,我们更有成效。 |
| 577 | And in fact, the key word here is friction. | 事实上,这里的关键词是摩擦。 |
| 578 | When you have a company that has a lot | 当你有一个公司 有很多 |
| 579 | of communication friction, you have employees | 通讯摩擦,你有员工 |
| 580 | who doubt themselves, you don't have psychological safety. | 谁怀疑自己, 你没有心理安全。 |
| 581 | They have a really hard time brainstorming. | 他们很难集思广益。 |
| 582 | You have people who withhold information. | 你有的人 谁隐瞒信息。 |
| 583 | You have more information silos. | 你有更多的信息仓。 |
| 584 | Communication friction costs companies money. | 通讯摩擦花费公司金钱. |
| 585 | And so if you have a community of employees | 所以,如果你有一个雇员社区 |
| 586 | who have very easy level one, | 他们有极易的品级, |
| 587 | they don't need to get to level three. | 他们不需要进入三级 |
| 588 | Like you don't need to get to level three | 就像你不需要进入三级 |
| 589 | with everyone in your company. | 和大家在你们公司。 |
| 590 | You don't need to get to level three | 你不需要到三级 |
| 591 | with your Uber driver. | 还有你的Uber司机 |
| 592 | But if you have really easy small talk, | 但如果你说话很轻松的话 |
| 593 | easy banter, where someone knows, | 很简单,在有人知道的地方, |
| 594 | oh yeah, I know exactly | 对,我知道 |
| 595 | what their personal passion project is. | 他们的个人激情项目是什么 |
| 596 | I know who they are. | 我知道他们是谁 |
| 597 | I know what fun plans they have coming up. | 我知道他们有什么有趣的计划 |
| 598 | The first five minutes of your meeting becomes | 你开会的头五分钟就变了 |
| 599 | not only frictionless, but actually pleasurable. | 不仅没有摩擦, 而且实际上令人愉快。 |
| 600 | People show up on time. | 人们准时出现. |
| 601 | People are more productive. | 人更有产. |
| 602 | People want to be there | 人们想在那里 |
| 603 | because they actually want to connect | 因为他们实际上想要连接 |
| 604 | and collaborate with her. | 并配合她。 |
| 605 | And this is remote or in person, right? | 这是远程的还是当面的 对吧? |
| 606 | Because they know they have these very loose ties | 因为他们知道他们有 这些非常松散的领带 |
| 607 | and loose ties actually make us more productive. | 和松散的领带 实际上使我们更有成效。 |
| 608 | And so we are looking for frictionless communication | 所以我们在寻找无摩擦的交流 |
| 609 | and that happens at level one. | 这发生在一级。 |
| 610 | In fact, work conversations should be | 事实上,工作对话应该是 |
| 611 | really ideal level ones. | 真正理想的水平。 |
| 612 | Is this in part also the fastest way to get to connection? | 这也是最快的连接方式吗? |
| 613 | Yes. | 对 |
| 614 | Because these CEOs or founders | 因为这些CEO或创始人 |
| 615 | or busy people generally are very time poor. | 或忙碌的人一般都很穷。 |
| 616 | For sure. | 当然 |
| 617 | So they don't have 30 minutes to move their way | 所以他们没有30分钟的路要走 |
| 618 | to connection, but are you saying that- | 连接,但你是说... |
| 619 | These are shortcuts. | 这些是捷径。 |
| 620 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 621 | So it's way worse for a CEO to be like, | 首席执行官会更糟糕 |
| 622 | shoot, I've been told I better be warmer. | 射击,我被告知我最好更温暖。 |
| 623 | Most of my students are brilliant, very talented, | 我的学生大多都很聪明,很有才华 |
| 624 | very smart, but a little awkward and want to get it done. | 非常聪明,但有点尴尬 想完成它。 |
| 625 | They're much more focused on the confidence and the warmth. | 他们更注重信心和温暖. |
| 626 | So they try to do warmth because they feel like they should. | 所以他们试图做温暖,因为他们觉得自己应该做。 |
| 627 | And they're like, how are those kids? | 他们喜欢, 怎么样的孩子? |
| 628 | And then it's like a social script. | 然后如社会剧本. |
| 629 | Good. | 不错 |
| 630 | Or how are you? | 或者你好吗? |
| 631 | Good, busy, busy, but good. | 好,忙,忙,但不错。 |
| 632 | And they're like, it's not working. | 他们觉得,这行不通。 |
| 633 | It was anti-productive. | 这是反效果。 |
| 634 | No, I'd rather you skip ahead. | 不,我宁愿你跳过前面。 |
| 635 | Make this level quick and good, right? | 速战速决,对吧? |
| 636 | So like the team intervention that I encourage | 就像我鼓励的团队干预 |
| 637 | every virtual or in-person team to do | 每个虚拟或面对面的团队都要做 |
| 638 | is once a week at the start of a meeting, | 每周开会一次, |
| 639 | start with tell me something good. | 先告诉我一些好事 |
| 640 | Very, very quickly. | 非常,非常迅速。 |
| 641 | Everyone goes around very quickly | 每个人都走得很快 |
| 642 | and they share one win or something good. | 他们分享一个胜利或者什么好东西。 |
| 643 | It can be small, it can be big. | 其能小而能大. |
| 644 | That can take less than three minutes, | 这需要不到三分钟 |
| 645 | less than five minutes depending on how big your team is. | 不到五分钟,取决于你的团队有多大。 |
| 646 | We do it on our Tuesday team calls at my team. | 我们周二的球队会打给我 |
| 647 | What it does is you've just created a safe, | 你刚刚创造了保险箱 |
| 648 | very contained space for a good level one. | 在一个良好的水平上,非常有空间。 |
| 649 | It's only good. | 这是唯一的好。 |
| 650 | So otherwise people will accidentally complain, right? | 否则人们会不小心抱怨,对吧? |
| 651 | They'll be like, oh, the weather, oh, traffic, right? | 他们会像,哦,天气,哦,交通,对不对? |
| 652 | But you're putting a frame around it that's good. | 但你把一个框架 周围,这是很好的。 |
| 653 | You're time boxing it, right? | 你在打时空拳击,对吧? |
| 654 | Everyone goes around really quickly. | 每个人都走得很快。 |
| 655 | But you're very quickly creating these team connections. | 但你正在迅速建立这些团队联系。 |
| 656 | So creating time in your meetings, | 所以在你们的会面中创造时间, |
| 657 | but also in your culture to ask slightly better questions. | 在你的文化中 也会问些更好的问题 |
| 658 | All of these level one things have one thing in common, | 所有这些层面的一件事有一个共同点 |
| 659 | which is they provoke a positive search and response. | 这引起了积极的搜索和反应。 |
| 660 | Yes. | 对 |
| 661 | So that's really the crux of level one. | 所以,这真的是第一级的关键。 |
| 662 | Just a question that's producing a positive response. | 只是一个引起积极反应的问题. |
| 663 | Sorry, it's not always positive. | 对不起,这并不总是积极的。 |
| 664 | I do believe in toxic positivity | 我相信有毒性 |
| 665 | and toxic positivity can kill a conversational vibe | 和有毒的阳性可以杀死 谈话的氛围 |
| 666 | very quickly. | 很快的,你应该知道 |
| 667 | What we're actually looking for is emotion and story. | 我们实际上在找的是情感和故事。 |
| 668 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 669 | Right, so I might say, and by the way, | 好吧,我可以说,顺便说一句, |
| 670 | my introverts, I love my introverts, | 我的内向者 我爱我的内向者 |
| 671 | they always say, well, what if someone says they don't? | 他们总是说,如果有人说他们没有呢? |
| 672 | You ask them, what's your personal passion project? | 你问他们 你的个人激情项目是什么? |
| 673 | And they say, I don't have one. | 他们说,我没有。 |
| 674 | Well, great, what an opportunity. | 好极了 真是个好机会 |
| 675 | If someone doesn't have a personal passion project | 如果有人没有个人激情项目 |
| 676 | or they're going through a hard time, | 或者他们正在经历一个艰难的时期, |
| 677 | they're having a bad day, | 他们今天过得很不好 |
| 678 | you have an opportunity to connect even better. | 你有更好的机会联系 |
| 679 | So sometimes it doesn't have to be positive. | 所以有时不一定是正面的. |
| 680 | You're looking for any kind of real emotion. | 你正在寻找任何一种真正的情感。 |
| 681 | So then someone says, you know what? | 然后有人说,你知道吗? |
| 682 | I've been really going through a hard time | 我最近很辛苦,很困难 |
| 683 | and I haven't had much energy | 我没有多少精力 |
| 684 | to work on personal passion these days. | 这些天来都是为了个人的热情 |
| 685 | And then you have the choice. | 然后你有选择。 |
| 686 | You can say, wow, is there anything I can do to help? | 你可以说,哇,有什么我可以帮忙的吗? |
| 687 | Or you can say, do you wanna talk about it? | 或者你可以说 你想谈谈吗? |
| 688 | So it's not always positive. | 故不常为正. |
| 689 | It's looking for authentic emotions and ideally story. | 它正在寻找真实的情感 和理想的故事。 |
| 690 | And this is another, | 这是另一个 |
| 691 | one of the other master conversationalists I study | 我研究的另一位对话大师之一 |
| 692 | who's excellent at level one is Jerry Seinfeld. | 在一级最优秀的是杰瑞·辛菲尔德 |
| 693 | So Jerry Seinfeld has a little conversational trick. | 所以杰瑞·辛菲尔德有一个小的谈话技巧. |
| 694 | This is in level one of the book, | 这是书的一级 |
| 695 | which is he often meets people after his event | 他经常在活动结束后遇见人 |
| 696 | and they're so starstruck by him | 他们被他迷住了 |
| 697 | that they don't know what to say | 他们不知道该说什么 |
| 698 | and conversation is really awkward. | 谈话很尴尬 |
| 699 | He has a little awkward. | 他有点尴尬 |
| 700 | He's developed a trick | 他开发了一种诡计 |
| 701 | and this works really well for CEOs and introverts, | 这对首席执行官和内向者来说非常有效 |
| 702 | which is ask a numbers-based question. | 它是一个基于数字的问题。 |
| 703 | So instead of how are you, where do you live? | 而不是你怎么样,你住在哪里? |
| 704 | So how long have you two been together? | 你们在一起多久了? |
| 705 | And then if it's 38 years, you say, | 然后如果这是38年,你说, |
| 706 | oh, what's been the highlight of your 38 years? | 你38年来的亮点是什么? |
| 707 | If it's really short, oh, you're in the honeymoon phase. | 如果它真的短,哦, 你进入蜜月阶段。 |
| 708 | What's the best part? | 何为最胜部分. |
| 709 | So it's a numbers question. | 故为数问. |
| 710 | And this works really well for introverts as well | 这对内向者也很好 |
| 711 | is because it's fact-based. | 因为它是基于事实的。 |
| 712 | So it's like an opener. | 故如开者. |
| 713 | And then usually from there, | 然后通常从那里, |
| 714 | it's a jumping off point to a story. | 这是一个跳跃点 一个故事。 |
| 715 | So it's not that level one should always be positive. | 所以不是第一级应该总是正面的 |
| 716 | That's great if it can be. | 如果可以的话 那就太好了 |
| 717 | But practically speaking, it actually more is | 但实际上,它实际上更多 |
| 718 | that there's a small emotion or a small story. | 有一种小的情感或一个小故事。 |
| 719 | Okay, so the other day I was in Las Vegas | 好吧,所以那天我在拉斯维加斯 |
| 720 | and I was doing this sort of like | 我做这种喜欢 |
| 721 | step and repeat meet and greet thing after the event | 脚步,重复 见面和问候 事情之后 |
| 722 | and people come up and they're kind of ushering them | 并且人们上楼来, 他们有点迎来了他们 |
| 723 | through very quickly. | 通过非常快。 |
| 724 | So I always want to say something to learn a little bit | 所以我总是想说点什么来学习 |
| 725 | about a person in that time. | 关于那个时候的一个人 |
| 726 | What would you recommend? | 你有什么建议? |
| 727 | And this might be applicable for networking generally, | 这可能适用于一般的联网, |
| 728 | but what would you recommend? | 但你有什么建议? |
| 729 | Okay, so I always whenever after speaking about book sending | 好吧,所以我总是说到寄书以后 |
| 730 | I say, what was your favorite part | 我说,什么是你最喜欢的部分 |
| 731 | or what did you learn the most? | 还是你学到最多? |
| 732 | So I immediately ask a question | 所以我马上问一个问题 |
| 733 | that I want them to take home with them. | 我要他们带他们回家 |
| 734 | And that's actually level two, which we can skip. | 这实际上是二级, 我们可以跳过。 |
| 735 | We're not gonna skip too far ahead, | 我们不会跳得太远的 |
| 736 | but what have you always wanted to learn | 但你一直想学什么 |
| 737 | or what are you learning is actually going to level two. | 或者你学到了什么 实际上是第二层。 |
| 738 | So you can ask it, | 所以,你可以问它, |
| 739 | especially if someone's just spent an hour listening to you. | 特别是如果有人只花了一小时听你的 |
| 740 | What's the difference between level one and level two? | 一级和二级有什么区别? |
| 741 | Okay, oh, sorry. | 好吧,哦,对不起。 |
| 742 | Yes, we skipped ahead. | 是的,我们跳过了前面。 |
| 743 | Okay, so we'll put a pin in this. | 好吧,所以我们把 针在这里。 |
| 744 | One of the thing I want to say about that question | 我想说的一件事 关于这个问题 |
| 745 | is I read this framework. | 我读过这个框架 |
| 746 | I read about Dan McAdams framework | 我读到了丹·麦克亚当斯的框架 |
| 747 | and I was doing this conversation research. | 我在做这个对话研究 |
| 748 | And then I got invited to a party. | 然后我被邀请参加一个聚会。 |
| 749 | One of the weirdest parties I've ever been invited to. | 我被邀请参加过最诡异的派对 |
| 750 | And I get in and they tell me to take off my shoes. | 我进去,他们叫我脱鞋 |
| 751 | So I'm committed, right? | 所以,我承诺,对不对? |
| 752 | I can't leave, yeah. | 我不能离开,是的。 |
| 753 | And then they go, guess what? | 然后他们走了,你知道吗? |
| 754 | We have a rule for this party. | 我们有这个党的规则 |
| 755 | I'm like, what? | и琌或妓 |
| 756 | They're like, you cannot talk about what you do. | 他们喜欢,你不能谈论 你做什么。 |
| 757 | Now this was a party of, | 现在,这是一个聚会, |
| 758 | I think very other successful people. | 我认为其他成功的人。 |
| 759 | And all of us are like, what? | 我们都像,什么? |
| 760 | Because I don't know about you, | 因为我不了解你 |
| 761 | but I'm pretty defined by what I do. | 但我被我的行为所定义 |
| 762 | I talk about it, I love it. | 我谈论它,我喜欢它。 |
| 763 | So I start to panic, | 所以我开始恐慌, |
| 764 | because I'm like, what do you even talk about | 因为我喜欢,你甚至谈论什么 |
| 765 | if you don't talk about that? | 如果你不说话吗? |
| 766 | Because so many of our conversations veer into work. | 因为我们的很多谈话都投入了工作 |
| 767 | And so I had to one, | 所以我不得不做一个, |
| 768 | my brain was flipped off autopilot immediately. | 我的大脑立刻从自动驾驶器上掉下来了 |
| 769 | And I had to get more creative with my questions. | 我不得不更创造性地回答问题。 |
| 770 | And I had to also think that I want, | 我不得不认为我想要, |
| 771 | I was like, I'm just going to discover things about them. | 我当时想,我只是要去发现 关于他们的事情。 |
| 772 | I'm going to try to figure out what they do by not asking. | 我会试着找出他们做了什么,不问。 |
| 773 | And that was an aha moment of, | 那是一个哈哈的时刻, |
| 774 | we should treat level one, | 我们应该对待一级, |
| 775 | these three bottom questions as a treasure hunt. | 作为寻宝的这三个问题 |
| 776 | That if you're going into it, | 如果你打算这么做, |
| 777 | looking for some kind of conversational gold, | 寻找某种对话黄金, |
| 778 | your questions have much different intention. | 你的问题有不同的意图 |
| 779 | And especially what I ended up asking was, | 特别是我最后问的是, |
| 780 | what do you talk about when you don't talk about work? | 不谈工作时谈什么? |
| 781 | Which was sort of this freedom. | 这是一种自由。 |
| 782 | It gave us this freedom in conversation | 它给了我们对话的自由 |
| 783 | where I want to give everyone permission | 我想给大家许可的地方 |
| 784 | that really good conversation | 说得真好 |
| 785 | does not have to stick to the same old boring topics. | 不必坚持同样的无聊话题。 |
| 786 | It does not have to be what you do. | 你不必这么做 |
| 787 | It can be about anything that is engaging you | 它可能涉及任何与你有关的事情 |
| 788 | or exciting you in that moment. | 或者在那一刻让你兴奋 |
| 789 | That is level one. | 这是一级。 |
| 790 | Level two. | 二级. |
| 791 | So we have general traits. | 所以我们有一般的特质。 |
| 792 | We must start there. | 我们必须从那里开始。 |
| 793 | We cannot skip too quickly to level two. | 我们不能太快跳到第二层。 |
| 794 | Level two is called personal concerns. | 二级称为个人关切. |
| 795 | Personal concerns is where we begin to connect deeply. | 个人的关切是我们开始深深联系在一起的地方。 |
| 796 | This is our motivations, our goals, our values, our worries. | 这是我们的动机,我们的目标,我们的价值观,我们的担忧. |
| 797 | And I'm assuming you do level two | 我假设你做二级 |
| 798 | once you've got past level one connection. | 一旦你超过一级连接。 |
| 799 | So this is us going deeper with the person. | 这就是我们和那个人的深度。 |
| 800 | We're going deeper, exactly. | 我们要更深了 |
| 801 | Or leveling up as you wish, right, as you wish. | 或按所愿而调平,对,如所愿也. |
| 802 | So the mistake traps that people make is they skip level one. | 所以人们错误的陷阱就是跳过一级。 |
| 803 | They try to go too deep quickly | 他们想走得太快了 |
| 804 | and people feel like it's invasive, right? | 人们觉得这是入侵 对吧? |
| 805 | Especially when you're like, whoa, slow down. | 特别是当你喜欢,哇,慢下来。 |
| 806 | Or it can feel like an interrogation. | 或者感觉像审讯 |
| 807 | So we must know those basics first | 所以我们必须先知道这些基本知识 |
| 808 | as long as we do them better. | 只要我们做得更好 |
| 809 | We don't do them in an autopilot way. | 我们不会用自动驾驶的方式来做 |
| 810 | Level two is when you start to understand | 第二层是当你开始理解 |
| 811 | what motivates someone. | 是什么激励着某人。 |
| 812 | The kind of mental trick that I use is, | 我用的那种精神诡计是, |
| 813 | you know you're on level two with someone | 你知道你和一个人在二层 |
| 814 | if you know what gets them up in the morning, | 如果你知道是什么让他们早上起来, |
| 815 | like what goal is driving them all day, | 喜欢什么目标 驱动他们一整天, |
| 816 | but you also know what keeps them up at night, | 你也知道是什么使他们在夜间不安, |
| 817 | what worries them. | 让他们担心的事 |
| 818 | I encourage people as they're reading, | 我鼓励人们在阅读, |
| 819 | think of the five people you interact with most | 想想你和五个人互动 |
| 820 | and place them on a level. | 并把它们放在一个水平上。 |
| 821 | Do you only know the basic facts about them? | 你只知道他们的基本事实吗? |
| 822 | Are you all at level three, which we're gonna get to? | 你们都在3级,我们要去吗? |
| 823 | It's sometimes helpful you'll notice patterns. | 有时候你会注意到规律的 |
| 824 | Like I don't know about you, but I love level two. | 就像我不知道你,但我爱二级。 |
| 825 | Like I wanna get through level one as quickly as possible. | 就像我想尽快通过一级 |
| 826 | I wanna get to your motivations. | 我想了解你的动机 |
| 827 | I wanna get to your secret side hustle. | 我想到你的秘密一边去 |
| 828 | I wanna get to your dreams and passions. | 我想达到你的梦想和激情 |
| 829 | I wanna know what keeps you up at night, | 我想知道是什么让你晚上睡不着 |
| 830 | but I can sometimes jump too fast. | 但我有时会跳得太快 |
| 831 | Level two is about making someone feel heard and understood. | 第二层的内容是让别人感觉听到和理解. |
| 832 | And this is different than discovering treasure. | 这和发现宝藏不同 |
| 833 | And the biggest skill that we can do in level two | 和最大的技能,我们可以做 在二级 |
| 834 | is what I call dream building. | 我称之为梦幻建筑 |
| 835 | So dream building is everyone has like a secret desire, | 所以梦幻建筑是每个人都有 秘密的欲望, |
| 836 | a secret dream, a secret side hustle, a secret passion. | 秘密的梦 秘密的一面 神秘的激情 |
| 837 | Can you be there and help them uncover it? | 你能在那里帮助他们发现它吗? |
| 838 | That's the goal of level two. | 这是二级的目标. |
| 839 | So give me an example of dream building. | 故举梦造像之例. |
| 840 | Okay, so before we started, I said to you, | 好了,所以在我们开始之前,我跟你说, |
| 841 | I have a new goal, right? | 我有一个新目标,对不对? |
| 842 | Like I'm pitching a TV show. | 就像我在播电视剧一样 |
| 843 | That's like my secret side hustle. | 这就像我的秘密的一面 动作。 |
| 844 | That's level two for me. | 对我来说是二级 |
| 845 | It's something that I've been working on | 这是我一直在研究的 |
| 846 | secretly and quietly. | 悄悄地 悄悄地 |
| 847 | And if we were at lunch, | 如果我们在午餐, |
| 848 | I would have told you all about it, | 我本该告诉你的 |
| 849 | we double clicked on it. | 我们两次点击它。 |
| 850 | So like that's an example of one. | 因此,就像一个例子。 |
| 851 | Another example to think about is | 另一个值得思考的例子是: |
| 852 | what does someone daydream about, right? | 梦到什么了? |
| 853 | Like what is occupying their mind in a good way? | 像什么是占据 他们的思维的方式好? |
| 854 | The other way that I, a framework that I give for folks | 换句话说,我给别人一个框架 |
| 855 | is a pet or pest project. | 是一个宠物或害虫项目。 |
| 856 | So what is someone's pet project? | 那么,什么是某人的宠物项目? |
| 857 | Like a pet at home, you kind of think about it, | 就像家里的宠物,你会考虑的 |
| 858 | you dream about it, you hope about it. | 你梦想它,你希望它。 |
| 859 | Like what is someone hoping to achieve or find or do? | 比如有人希望实现什么 或者找到什么或者做什么? |
| 860 | And what is their pest project? | 他们的害虫计划是什么? |
| 861 | Like a pest in the attic, it worries you. | 就像阁楼里的害虫一样 让你担心 |
| 862 | You wonder like, how can I get rid of that pest? | 你想知道我怎么能摆脱那害虫? |
| 863 | How can I eradicate it? | 我怎样才能消灭它? |
| 864 | And they want help with it, | 他们需要帮助 |
| 865 | but they're too afraid to ask. | 但他们不敢问 |
| 866 | Pest projects have a lot of shame. | 害虫计划很丢脸 |
| 867 | On level two, people have to feel safe enough | 在第二层,人们必须感到足够安全 |
| 868 | to expose what they feel shame about. | 揭露他们感到的耻辱 |
| 869 | But pet projects, the things they love, | 但宠物项目, 他们喜欢的东西, |
| 870 | have a lot of pride. | 有很多的骄傲。 |
| 871 | And so you're trying to figure out in conversation, | 所以你想在谈话中搞清楚 |
| 872 | could you let someone feel safe enough to share either one? | 你能让一个人觉得安全 可以分享其中之一吗? |
| 873 | And are there questions that evoke dream building? | 是否有问题引起梦想? |
| 874 | Yes. | 对 |
| 875 | Okay, so what have you always wanted to learn | 好吧,你一直想学什么 |
| 876 | is an interesting question | 是个有趣的问题 |
| 877 | because it triggers growth mindset, right? | 因为它触发了增长思维,对不对? |
| 878 | So growth mindset is when someone believes | 所以,增长的心态 是当有人相信 |
| 879 | they can change themselves, change who they are, | 他们可以改变自己,改变自己, |
| 880 | change their trajectory, learn something new. | 改变他们的轨迹,学习新的东西。 |
| 881 | So we like this question because you're asking, | 所以我们喜欢这个问题 因为你问, |
| 882 | are you willing to grow with me? | 你愿意和我一起长大吗? |
| 883 | What have you always wanted to learn? | 你一直想学什么? |
| 884 | The other easy one is what is your biggest goal right now? | 另一个容易的是 你现在最大的目标是什么? |
| 885 | So what is your biggest goal right now is a great question. | 你现在最大的目标是一个大问题。 |
| 886 | And you can also time anchor it. | 你也可以用时间锁定它。 |
| 887 | Anytime someone has a birthday, | 每当有人过生日, |
| 888 | you can ask, what's your big goal this year? | 你可以问,你今年的目标是什么? |
| 889 | Right, you're like leveling them up in a safe way | 对,你就像用安全的方式平整他们 |
| 890 | because they're talking about their birthday. | 因为他们在谈论他们的生日。 |
| 891 | Any around New Year's, January and December, | 任何在新年,一月和十二月, |
| 892 | I ask everyone I know, | 我问所有我认识的人 |
| 893 | what's your biggest goal right now? | 你现在最大的目标是什么? |
| 894 | New quarter, new performance review. | 新季度,新的业绩审查。 |
| 895 | When we talk about goals, | 当我们谈论目标时, |
| 896 | it activates a part of our brain that triggers dopamine. | 它激活了大脑的一部分 引发多巴胺。 |
| 897 | When we think about our future self, | 当我们考虑我们的未来 |
| 898 | it activates a part of ourselves | 它激活我们的一部分 |
| 899 | that wants to get motivated. | 想得到动力。 |
| 900 | And so level two is also giving someone motivation | 所以第二层也给人动力 |
| 901 | that in conversation, | 在谈话中, |
| 902 | they're actually discovering an aspect of themselves, | 他们实际上发现了自己的一部分, |
| 903 | they're tapping their own resource for motivation. | 他们利用自己的资源来激励自己 |
| 904 | It gives them permission to dream a little bit and to- | 让他们做点梦,然后... |
| 905 | Yeah, and you're giving them the motivation | 是啊,你给他们的动机 |
| 906 | that they already have, | 他们已经拥有, |
| 907 | but you're bringing it into the conversation. | 但你会把它带进谈话 |
| 908 | I think recently we are so into intrapersonal. | 我觉得最近我们很在行 |
| 909 | Like a lot of what you see on social media right now | 就像你现在在社交媒体上看到的一样 |
| 910 | is mindset and mantra and affirmation and productivity. | 思想、口才、肯定和生产力。 |
| 911 | And I love all of those things, | 我爱那些东西, |
| 912 | but that means that people are actually using | 但这意味着人们实际上在使用 |
| 913 | all that excitement alone when they're journaling | 日记的时候,只有这么兴奋 |
| 914 | or when they're meditating | 或当他们冥想 |
| 915 | or when they're working on their to-do list. | 或当他们工作 在他们的待办事宜列表。 |
| 916 | We have forgotten, I've noticed, | 我们忘了,我已经注意到, |
| 917 | to bring those goals into conversation. | 把目标带入对话 |
| 918 | We're almost embarrassed. | 我们几乎尴尬。 |
| 919 | I don't know if you've noticed this, | 我不知道你有没有注意到这个 |
| 920 | but it's almost like people are embarrassed | 但它几乎像人们尴尬 |
| 921 | to talk about their secret side hustle | 来谈谈他们的秘密方面 |
| 922 | or they're embarrassed to talk about their secret passion. | 或者他们很尴尬地谈论他们的秘密激情 |
| 923 | If we give someone permission to bring in | 如果我们允许别人进来 |
| 924 | what they have been motivated about privately | 他们为私欲而犯罪, |
| 925 | into conversation, you get to be an ally. | 在对话中,你是一个盟友。 |
| 926 | What if you're met with a dead end | 如果你遇到一个死胡同 |
| 927 | when you ask these kind of level two questions? | 当你问这种二级问题时? |
| 928 | Well, then you get to answer. | 好吧,然后你得到答案。 |
| 929 | Because some people haven't quite figured out | 因为有些人还没搞清楚 |
| 930 | what their biggest goal is. | 他们最大的目标是什么? |
| 931 | Absolutely, especially also sometimes | 当然,尤其是有时 |
| 932 | introverts in conversation. | 对话中的内向. |
| 933 | I've asked these questions to thousands of people | 我问过成千上万的人这些问题 |
| 934 | and all different kinds of things happen when I do that. | 我这么做的时候 会发生各种各样的事情 |
| 935 | Introverts also need more time to process. | Introvers还需要更多的时间来处理. |
| 936 | So you might ask them, | 所以你可以问他们, |
| 937 | what are you learning right now? | 你现在在学什么? |
| 938 | Or what's your biggest goal? | 或者你最大的目标是什么? |
| 939 | And they might in the moment not know, | 他们可能马上就不知道, |
| 940 | they just need a little bit of time to process. | 他们只需要一点时间来处理 |
| 941 | And so two things can happen. | 故能有二事. |
| 942 | It's if they don't have it yet, that's okay. | 如果他们还没拿到,没关系 |
| 943 | You also have opportunity to share. | 你也有机会分享 |
| 944 | But what if I ask, | 但是如果我问, |
| 945 | I'm thinking because I know a lot of taxi drivers | 我想是因为我认识很多出租车司机 |
| 946 | listen to this podcast because they get in taxis | 听听这个播客,因为他们坐出租车 |
| 947 | and we talk about it. | 我们谈论它。 |
| 948 | Oh yay, I love it. | 哦,是的,我喜欢它。 |
| 949 | Taxi drivers, they're conversationalists, | 出租车司机,他们是对话家, |
| 950 | often very good ones. | 经常是非常好的 |
| 951 | But sometimes I guess a taxi driver | 但有时我想是出租车司机 |
| 952 | might be faced with the scenario | 可能面对的情景 |
| 953 | where the person in the backseat doesn't wanna talk. | 在后座的人不想说话 |
| 954 | And they might hit them with one of these level ones | 他们可能会用其中的一级打他们 |
| 955 | and then the level twos | 然后是二级 |
| 956 | and they're just getting brick walls. | 他们只是得到砖墙。 |
| 957 | But I would respect that, right? | 但我会尊重这一点,对不对? |
| 958 | If someone doesn't wanna talk to you. | 如果有人不想和你说话的话 |
| 959 | Do you just back out? | 你刚刚退后? |
| 960 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 961 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 962 | Because then they're going through their own thing, right? | 因为那样他们就会经历自己的事情,对吧? |
| 963 | Like if you have to have also courage to be disliked, right? | 就像你必须有勇气 被讨厌,对不对? |
| 964 | You can try your best in conversation. | 你可以在谈话中尽力 |
| 965 | You can bring the best questions. | 你可以提出最好的问题。 |
| 966 | But if someone is not your person | 但如果有人不是你的人的话 |
| 967 | or they are not ready to connect, | 或者他们还没有准备好连接, |
| 968 | why would you waste your energy on that? | 你为什么要浪费你的精力呢? |
| 969 | So I also think that asking some of these are like bids. | 所以我也认为, 问一些这些就像投标。 |
| 970 | It's like a bid to see like, | 这就像一个竞价看到, |
| 971 | can we do this? | 我们能做到这一点吗? |
| 972 | You wanna banter with me? | 你想跟我玩吗? |
| 973 | Should we have level one? | 我们应该有一级吗? |
| 974 | Should we even dip into level two? | 我们是否该跳进二级? |
| 975 | Great. | 不错 |
| 976 | If not, cool, they're not your person | 如果不是,他们不是你的人 |
| 977 | or it's not their day. | 或者不是他们的一天。 |
| 978 | So if they don't take the bait. | 所以如果他们不上钩的话 |
| 979 | It's okay. | 没关系。 |
| 980 | Taxi drivers usually ask me, | 出租车司机通常问我 |
| 981 | got anything exciting today? | 今天有什么刺激的吗? |
| 982 | Are we going anywhere exciting? | 我们要去刺激的地方吗? |
| 983 | Great. | 不错 |
| 984 | That's a great swap for level one. | 这是一个很好的交换一级。 |
| 985 | I should say, by the way, | 我应该说,顺便说一句, |
| 986 | these questions are suggestions. | 这些问题都是建议。 |
| 987 | If you can modify them to fit what you are doing, | 如果你可以修改它们 适应你在做什么, |
| 988 | even better, like for example, | 更好,比如说, |
| 989 | you and I are in book signings | 你和我在书签上 |
| 990 | or we are meeting you after speaking events. | 或者我们是在演讲后见你的 |
| 991 | It makes sense for us to modify the learning | 我们改学有道理 |
| 992 | or goal question to say, | 或目标问题要说, |
| 993 | hey, what did you learn? | 嘿,你学到了什么? |
| 994 | Or did you learn anything new? | 还是你学到了什么新东西? |
| 995 | Or what was your favorite part? | 或者你最喜欢什么? |
| 996 | We're modifying that for us. | 我们正在修改 为我们。 |
| 997 | A taxi driver is gonna modify it for, | 出租车司机会修改的 |
| 998 | are we heading anywhere exciting? | 我们要去哪里令人兴奋? |
| 999 | Do we need exciting today? | 我们今天需要兴奋吗? |
| 1000 | So like, these are not prescriptions, right? | 所以,这些不是处方,对不对? |
| 1001 | They are guidelines to try to make the research applicable. | 它们是努力使研究适用的准则。 |
| 1002 | I've spent most of my career looking at research, | 我大部分的职业生涯都在研究 |
| 1003 | reading academic studies, | 阅读学术研究, |
| 1004 | and some of them are 30 pages of jargon with one nugget. | 其中一些是30页的词条 加上一个小块 |
| 1005 | And Dan McAdams research is so incredible, | 丹·麦克亚当斯的研究非常不可思议 |
| 1006 | but when I first read it, | 但当我第一次读它, |
| 1007 | I did not know how to use it. | 我不知道如何使用它。 |
| 1008 | I was like, general traits, personal concerns, | 我就像,一般的特质,个人的顾虑, |
| 1009 | like level one, I wasn't sure. | 就像一级,我不确定。 |
| 1010 | So a lot of these are just ways | 所以很多这些只是方法 |
| 1011 | to activate the behavioral research, | 激活行为研究, |
| 1012 | the guideline that's driving all of our interactions, | 指导我们所有的互动, |
| 1013 | but you get to have flexibility with it as it works for you. | 但你有灵活性,因为它对你有用。 |
| 1014 | The goal in level one, treasure hunt, | 一级目标 寻宝 |
| 1015 | put someone at ease, | 让别人安心点 |
| 1016 | ask them about what they love, harvest story. | 问他们喜欢什么,收获故事。 |
| 1017 | The goal of level two is to give someone permission | 第二层的目标是给人许可 |
| 1018 | to share a dream, a secret desire or a secret worry. | 分享一个梦,一个秘密的欲望 或一个秘密的担忧。 |
| 1019 | And level three, we get to get to in a little bit | 第三层,我们稍稍进入 |
| 1020 | when you're ready. | 当你准备好了。 |
| 1021 | Oh, we have one more level three, hold on. | 哦,我们还有一个三级,坚持住。 |
| 1022 | Level two question. | 二级问. |
| 1023 | On these questions, | 关于这些问题, |
| 1024 | do you have to actually care about the answer? | 你真的要关心答案吗? |
| 1025 | Do you have to authentically care about | 你一定要真正关心 |
| 1026 | what their biggest goal is right now, | 现在他们最大的目标是什么? |
| 1027 | or what their personal passion project is? | 或者他们的个人激情项目是什么? |
| 1028 | Does it matter if you don't actually care? | 如果你真的不在乎,那又怎么样? |
| 1029 | There have been times in conversation | 谈话中有过几次 |
| 1030 | where I'm not sure if I care yet. | 我不确定我是否还在乎 |
| 1031 | So I would say, you don't care yet. | 所以我会说,你还不在乎。 |
| 1032 | What if you ask the question and you're not sure, | 如果你问问题,你不确定, |
| 1033 | you're not bought in yet, | 你还没被买下 |
| 1034 | but then you hear an answer that deeply resonates with you, | 但随后你听到一个与你共鸣的答案, |
| 1035 | or you deeply care about. | 或者你非常关心 |
| 1036 | I think we don't know always | 我想我们不是总知道 |
| 1037 | if we're gonna care about someone | 如果我们要关心一个人 |
| 1038 | because we've just met them, | 因为我们刚认识他们 |
| 1039 | but maybe you will, right? | 也许你会,对不对? |
| 1040 | Like you never know who's gonna be your next best friend. | 就像你永远不知道 谁会是你下一个最好的朋友。 |
| 1041 | Right, you never know when you're gonna hear an aha moment | 对,你永远不知道你何时会听到 |
| 1042 | that's gonna change your business. | 这会改变你的生意。 |
| 1043 | Like so many of the pivot points in my business | 就像我生意中很多关键点 |
| 1044 | have been from random conversations | 是从随机对话中 |
| 1045 | where I happen to ask the right question | 在那里我碰巧问 正确的问题 |
| 1046 | and someone gives me a brilliant piece of advice. | 有人给我一个精彩的建议 |
| 1047 | So is it okay to pretend to care? | 假装在乎可以吗? |
| 1048 | If you're asking the question, you care enough to try. | 如果你在问问题,你在乎的足够尝试。 |
| 1049 | Right, if you're listening to this podcast, | 好吧,如果你在听这个播客, |
| 1050 | you already care enough to be like, | 你已经足够关心 像, |
| 1051 | I know I should. | 我知道我应该。 |
| 1052 | I know I should be a master conversationalist. | 我知道我应该成为一个主对话家。 |
| 1053 | Like so many leaders who I work with, | 像我合作过的许多领导人 |
| 1054 | they might not feel warm, but they know they need to be warm. | 他们可能不觉得温暖,但他们知道 他们需要温暖。 |
| 1055 | I think that's intent enough. | 我想这已经足够了 |
| 1056 | Right, we just gotta find the ones that work for you. | 对,我们只要找到为你工作的人 |
| 1057 | And you talked a second ago about these questions | 你刚才谈到这些问题 |
| 1058 | that lead to dead ends, which are like, what you do. | 导致死路一条 就像你所做的 |
| 1059 | What are the other examples you gave? | 你所举的其他例子是什么? |
| 1060 | Okay, I have a question that I hate a lot. | 好吧,我有一个问题 我非常讨厌。 |
| 1061 | I hate it a lot. | 我非常讨厌 |
| 1062 | I want it to leave our vocabulary. | 我希望它留下我们的词汇。 |
| 1063 | It's the worst question in the history of conversation. | 谈史上最难问. |
| 1064 | It is been busy. | 它一直很忙。 |
| 1065 | Okay, yeah. | 好吧,没错。 |
| 1066 | Right, like- | 对,就像... |
| 1067 | Been busy, what you do. | 忙着,你做什么。 |
| 1068 | When you're on the receiving end | 当你在接收端 |
| 1069 | of those kinds of questions, how do I counter that? | 这些问题,我怎么反驳呢? |
| 1070 | Because I'm gonna get that everywhere I go forever. | 因为我会得到的任何地方 我永远去。 |
| 1071 | So how do I counter that? | 那我该怎么反驳呢? |
| 1072 | Okay, so every time, first of all, | 好吧,所以每次,首先, |
| 1073 | boring questions make you boring, we know this. | 无聊的问题让你很无聊 我们知道的 |
| 1074 | But boring questions asked of you are an opportunity. | 但问你的无聊问题是个机会 |
| 1075 | In fact, I think you can really surprise and delight someone | 其实,我觉得你可以 真正的惊喜和欢乐的人 |
| 1076 | by breaking the script on their boring question. | 在他们无聊的问题上打破剧本 |
| 1077 | You are going to be asked a lot of boring questions. | 你会被问到很多无聊的问题。 |
| 1078 | Let's talk about two buckets here. | 我们来谈谈两桶 |
| 1079 | The first bucket is when you're asked, what do you do? | 第一桶是被问到的时候,你做什么的? |
| 1080 | And you're gonna be asked a lot, | 你会被问的很多, |
| 1081 | you better have a great answer. | 你最好有一个伟大的答案。 |
| 1082 | I think having a great answer to what do you do | 我觉得有一个很好的答案 你做什么 |
| 1083 | is creating opportunities for yourself. | 为自己创造机会 |
| 1084 | What most people make the mistake of with what do you do, | 大多数人都错了 你做什么 |
| 1085 | and I have an entire chapter about it in the book, | 我有一整章关于它的书, |
| 1086 | is when you're asked what do you do, | 当你被问到 你做什么, |
| 1087 | they're looking for something, right? | 他们在找东西,对吧? |
| 1088 | They're trying to understand who you are. | 他们想了解你是谁 |
| 1089 | Maybe they're even asking, what are you worth? | 也许他们甚至问, 你值什么? |
| 1090 | Maybe. | 也许 |
| 1091 | So now the ball's in your court | 所以,现在球在你的球场上 |
| 1092 | to break the script and to surprise them. | 打破剧本,给他们惊喜。 |
| 1093 | You wanna give an answer that explains exactly what you do, | 你想给出一个答案 解释你到底做了什么 |
| 1094 | but then gives them a little bit of a hook. | 然后再给他们一点钩子 |
| 1095 | As in like creates that curiosity gap. | 就像创造了好奇的空白。 |
| 1096 | A little bit of information gap, a little bit of curiosity. | 信息差距小,好奇心小. |
| 1097 | And we don't want to overcomplicate or be vague. | 我们不想过于复杂或含糊。 |
| 1098 | So for example, I was sitting in a coffee shop, | 例如,我坐在咖啡店里, |
| 1099 | I was researching this book, | 我在研究这本书, |
| 1100 | and I was eavesdropping on everyone's conversations, | 我在偷听每个人的谈话 |
| 1101 | because that's the best way. | 因为这是最好的办法。 |
| 1102 | You know, if you listen to conversations in the wild, | 如果你在野外听话 |
| 1103 | all the things you hear are great. | 你听到的一切都是伟大的。 |
| 1104 | And I was on my computer and I heard, she said, | 我在电脑上听到她说 |
| 1105 | so what do you do? | 所以,你怎么办? |
| 1106 | I think they were on like a date. | 我觉得他们像约会一样 |
| 1107 | And he goes, oh, I have a system | 他走,哦,我有一个系统 |
| 1108 | for maximizing achievement in young learners. | 使年轻学生的成就最大化。 |
| 1109 | And she was like, what? | 她喜欢,什么? |
| 1110 | And he goes, yeah, I work with fifth grade students | 他去,是的,我和五年级的学生一起工作 |
| 1111 | and I have a system for how they can learn math and reading. | 我有一个系统 他们可以学习数学和阅读。 |
| 1112 | And she goes, oh, you're a teacher. | 她去,哦,你是老师。 |
| 1113 | He goes, yeah, I'm a fifth grade teacher. | 他去,是的,我是一个五年级的老师。 |
| 1114 | And I was like, wow, the intention there | 我当时想,哇, 意图在那里 |
| 1115 | was to be interesting, right? | 很有趣,对吧? |
| 1116 | He didn't wanna say I'm just a fifth grade teacher, | 他不想说我只是五年级的老师 |
| 1117 | but he gave the brain too many calories, | 但他给了大脑太多的热量, |
| 1118 | like conversation calories. | 像对话卡路里。 |
| 1119 | The brain wants the simplest, easiest road possible. | 大脑想要最简单最简单的道路 |
| 1120 | We wanna put people at ease. | 我们要让别人安心点 |
| 1121 | What doesn't put people at ease is | 不能让人安心的是 |
| 1122 | acting like you're reading your resume. | 假装你在读简历 |
| 1123 | If your answer to what do you do | 如果你的回答是做什么的 |
| 1124 | sounds like you're reading your resume, | 听起来你正在读简历 |
| 1125 | you are turning people off, right? | 你要把人关了,对吧? |
| 1126 | It's either jargon filled or it feels too formal | 要么是填词 要么是太正式了 |
| 1127 | or too complex. | 或太复杂。 |
| 1128 | So that answer that he gave was vague. | 所以他给出的答案是模糊的。 |
| 1129 | It was complex. | 这是复杂的。 |
| 1130 | And it wasn't the social hacking. | 这不是社会黑客。 |
| 1131 | Also, it didn't give me a link, right? | 而且,它没有给我一个链接,对不对? |
| 1132 | Like the social hierarchy of facts. | 如事实的社会等级. |
| 1133 | I have to know what you do before I can know your how. | 我必须知道你怎么做才能知道你怎么做 |
| 1134 | So what should he have said? | 他应该说什么? |
| 1135 | Okay, what he should have said is not the how, | 好吧,他应该说 不是如何, |
| 1136 | but the what. | 但是,什么的,我们没有。 |
| 1137 | I love why, but I think that that needs to come second. | 我喜欢为什么,但我觉得这需要第二。 |
| 1138 | So what he should have said is I'm a fifth grade teacher | 他应该说我是五年级的老师 |
| 1139 | and I've been working for the last 10 years. | 我过去十年来一直在工作 |
| 1140 | I developed this really unique system | 我开发了这个非常独特的系统 |
| 1141 | that speeds up reading. | 这能加速阅读。 |
| 1142 | Now we're talking because my brain went, got it, check. | 现在,我们说话是因为我的大脑去了,得到了它,检查。 |
| 1143 | Fifth grade teacher, got it. | 五年级老师,明白了。 |
| 1144 | Then I got to hear the how. | 然后,我必须听到如何。 |
| 1145 | Wow, 10 years. | 哇,10年了,你这混蛋 |
| 1146 | That answered another question that we always have. | 这回答了我们一直存在的另一个问题。 |
| 1147 | How long have you been doing that, right? | 你这样做多久了,对不对? |
| 1148 | You're trying to skip ahead. | 你试图跳过前面。 |
| 1149 | And then it added this hook of I figured out | 然后又加上了这个钩子,我明白了 |
| 1150 | how to get students to read faster. | 如何让学生更快地阅读. |
| 1151 | So when you think of what to do, I have a little formula | 所以,当你想到该怎么做, 我有一个小公式 |
| 1152 | if you're willing to play around with it. | 如果你愿意随心所欲 |
| 1153 | And again, a formula, always take it loosely, make it fit. | 再说一次,一个公式,总是松散的,使它适合. |
| 1154 | I do blank, for who, by how. | 我做空白,为谁,如何。 |
| 1155 | That is doing some, it's like a gift to the other person. | 这是做一些, 它就像一个礼物给另一个人。 |
| 1156 | You're giving them a very clear label of what you do | 你给他们一个非常明确的标签 你做什么 |
| 1157 | so they can put you in a box. | 这样他们就能把你放进盒子里 |
| 1158 | And I hate being put in a box, | 我讨厌被放进盒子里 |
| 1159 | but unfortunately our brains need it. | 但不幸的是我们的大脑需要它。 |
| 1160 | Especially if it's very easy to understand. | 特别是如果它非常容易理解。 |
| 1161 | By who, because people always want, can you help me? | 谁,因为人们总是想要, 你能帮我吗? |
| 1162 | Can you help my friend? | 你能帮我朋友吗? |
| 1163 | Is it for my sister? | 是给我妹妹的吗? |
| 1164 | And then if it fits, your how. | 如果合适,你怎么办? |
| 1165 | A lot of people listening now are more multi-hyphenated | 很多人现在都听多了,多连字符 |
| 1166 | than ever before. | 更无前世. |
| 1167 | Love, love a multi-hyphen. | 爱,爱一个多连字符。 |
| 1168 | They do a this, a that, a violin, a creator, | 他们做这个,一个,一个小提琴,一个创造者, |
| 1169 | a LinkedIn thing, a speech, a dance, an improv. | 一个LinkedIn的事情, 一个演讲,一个舞蹈,一个即兴表演。 |
| 1170 | So how do those people answer | 那这些人怎么回答? |
| 1171 | when they're multi-hyphenated? | 当它们多连字符? |
| 1172 | Oh, I love it. | 哦,我喜欢它。 |
| 1173 | Okay, so two things. | 好吧,那么两件事。 |
| 1174 | A multi-hyphen, we understand complexity as humans. | 一个多连字符,我们理解复杂 作为人类。 |
| 1175 | We get it. | 我们明白了。 |
| 1176 | So you can say, you know, I daylight | 所以你可以说,你知道,我白天 |
| 1177 | as a fifth grade teacher, | 作为五年级的老师, |
| 1178 | but I moonlight as a cinematographer, right? | 但我月光作为电影演员,对不对? |
| 1179 | You can literally say you're hyphen. | 可以说你是连字符 |
| 1180 | If you're in a career pivot, | 如果你是职业中枢 |
| 1181 | we have a lot of students who come to us who are mid pivot. | 我们有很多学生来我们这里 他们中枢。 |
| 1182 | We love a hero story, right? | 我们喜欢英雄故事,对吧? |
| 1183 | So you can say, you know, | 所以你可以说,你知道, |
| 1184 | I've been working in marketing for the last 20 years, | 过去20年我一直在做营销 |
| 1185 | but I'm thinking about going back to school for psychology. | 但我想回学校学习心理学 |
| 1186 | Right, like we think that people can't handle it, | 是的,就像我们觉得 人们无法应付它, |
| 1187 | but conversation can handle a lot | 但谈话可以处理很多 |
| 1188 | and it doesn't take a long time. | 也不需要很长时间 |
| 1189 | Now, I do want to make a note here. | 现在,我想在这里做个笔记。 |
| 1190 | The mechanics of conversation. | 谈话的力学. |
| 1191 | So there's two aspects of conversation. | 所以谈话有两个方面. |
| 1192 | There's the art, right? | 有艺术,对不对? |
| 1193 | Like weaving in excitement and harvesting story. | 像编织 在兴奋和收获的故事。 |
| 1194 | And I love that, but there's also the mechanics. | 我喜欢,但还有机械。 |
| 1195 | So let's talk about that first. | 我们先谈谈这个 |
| 1196 | So the candor corpus is a huge research study | 所以说,神器是一个巨大的研究 |
| 1197 | on the mechanics of conversation. | 关于谈话的机械。 |
| 1198 | So how long do you think a typical turn should take | 所以,你认为一个典型的转弯需要多长时间 |
| 1199 | in conversation? | 在谈话中? |
| 1200 | Like how long should our turns take? | 我们轮班需要多久? |
| 1201 | 15 seconds? | 15秒钟? |
| 1202 | Wonderful, 15 to 30 seconds. | 好极了 15到30秒钟 |
| 1203 | So in average conversation, we like 15 to 30 seconds. | 因此,在平均对话中,我们喜欢15到30秒。 |
| 1204 | 45 seconds is okay, but we start to turn to a monologue. | 45秒还好 但我们开始独白 |
| 1205 | By this, you mean how long we speak for each | 你是指我们为每个人说话的时间 |
| 1206 | before I let you speak? | 在我让你说话之前? |
| 1207 | Yes, before we start to feel like, | 是的 在我们开始感觉之前 |
| 1208 | I'm talking too much, it's not my turn. | 我说的太多了 轮不到我了 |
| 1209 | So 15 to 30, and by the way, | 所以,15到30,顺便说一句, |
| 1210 | if you want to go listen to previous Zoom conversations, | 如果你想去听之前的Zoom对话, |
| 1211 | it can be helpful to know if you're an over-talker | 想知道你是不是说得太过份了会有帮助的 |
| 1212 | or an under-talker, right? | 或一个谈话者,对不对? |
| 1213 | Under 15 seconds, | 不到15秒钟 |
| 1214 | you might be actually creating conversational scarcity, | 你可能实际上造成 对话的稀缺, |
| 1215 | like not asking enough, not talking enough. | 就像问不够,说话不够 |
| 1216 | Which one's worse, do you find? | 哪一个更糟,你发现吗? |
| 1217 | Well, I'm an over-talker, so I'm going to say under-talking | 好吧,我是一个过度谈话的人, 所以我要说,地下谈话 |
| 1218 | because I'm an over-talker, | 因为我是旁白者, |
| 1219 | so I'm going to say it's worse to be an over-talker. | 所以我要说 做一个闲聊的人更糟糕 |
| 1220 | Wait, by the way, can I take a hit at podcasts | 顺便说一句,我能去播客那儿玩吗? |
| 1221 | for just a second? | 就一会儿? |
| 1222 | So the other reason I wrote this book is, | 我写这本书的另一个原因是 |
| 1223 | I think the art of conversation | 我觉得谈话的艺术 |
| 1224 | is being systematically stripped away piece by piece, | 被系统地逐块剥离, |
| 1225 | and it's well-intentioned. | 则心意精进. |
| 1226 | This is not a natural conversation, right? | 这不是一个自然的对话,对不对? |
| 1227 | Like I'm in an interview, | 就像我在面试一样 |
| 1228 | I would never normally take this long on turns | 我通常不会轮到这么长时间 |
| 1229 | if we were having dinner. | 如果我们正在吃晚餐。 |
| 1230 | You're reading notes, I have notes. | 你在看笔记 我有笔记 |
| 1231 | But more and more of our off time | 但越多的休息时间 |
| 1232 | is listening to podcast conversations, | 正在听播客的对话, |
| 1233 | but those are not real conversations, those are interviews. | 但这些不是真正的对话,而是访谈。 |
| 1234 | So one is we are hearing conversations that are not real. | 因此,我们听到的对话是不是真的。 |
| 1235 | They are a bit performative, right? | 他们有点表演性,对不对? |
| 1236 | And they're not following the mechanics of conversation. | 他们没有遵循谈话的机械原理 |
| 1237 | That is affecting our conversational muscle in our brain. | 这影响了我们大脑中的对话肌肉。 |
| 1238 | Second is we're having more and more | 第二,我们越来越多 |
| 1239 | asynchronous conversations. | 同步对话。 |
| 1240 | I now more than ever am sending nine-minute voice notes | 我现在比以往更需要发送九分钟的语音留言 |
| 1241 | to my friends. | 敬我的朋友们 |
| 1242 | Damn, wow. | 该死,哇。 |
| 1243 | Right? | 对吧? |
| 1244 | They send them back to me. | 他们把它们送回我身边 |
| 1245 | A voice note is not a conversation. | 语音音符不是对话 |
| 1246 | A voice note is a monologue. | 语音音符是独白. |
| 1247 | And when you're giving a voice note, | 当你给一个语音符, |
| 1248 | I don't get the, oh, it's my turn. | 我不明白,哦,轮到我了。 |
| 1249 | Me too, how dare you? | 我也是,你敢这样? |
| 1250 | I don't like that. | 我不喜欢这样 |
| 1251 | I don't agree. | 我不这么认为 |
| 1252 | Like there's no back and forth. | 如无前后. |
| 1253 | In fact, it's the most selfish form of conversation. | 事实上,这是最自私的对话形式. |
| 1254 | And this is from someone who sends a lot of voice notes | 这是寄来很多语音留言的 |
| 1255 | because I don't need to hear your opinion. | 因为我不需要听你的意见。 |
| 1256 | I get to go as long as I want. | 我随时可以去 |
| 1257 | I don't have to worry about whatever you're doing. | 我不必担心你在做什么 |
| 1258 | And I'm usually multitasking. | 我通常都是多任务 |
| 1259 | When I'm listening to my best friend's voice note | 当我听到我最好的朋友的声音 |
| 1260 | while I'm cleaning or cooking or exercising. | 一边打扫,一边做饭,一边锻炼 |
| 1261 | So that has skewed it because we then get | 所以,它扭曲了,因为我们得到了 |
| 1262 | into real conversation and it feels hard | 进入真正的对话 感觉很难 |
| 1263 | because our muscle has been atrophying | 因为我们的肌肉一直在萎缩 |
| 1264 | with this asynchronous. | 与这个同步。 |
| 1265 | And then we are also conversing less. | 然后,我们也谈得更少。 |
| 1266 | Only three in 10 Americans socialize on a day-to-day basis. | 每天只有十分之三的美国人进行社交活动. |
| 1267 | Meaning they're having more time alone | 意味着他们有更多的时间独处 |
| 1268 | and they are conversing less. | 他们谈论的更少。 |
| 1269 | And that is because we're able to do | 那是因为我们能做到 |
| 1270 | so much work asynchronously. | 这么多工作是同步的 |
| 1271 | We also spend so much time on our self-care, | 我们还花这么多时间来照顾自己 |
| 1272 | our longevity, our workouts that we're just | 我们的长寿,我们的锻炼 我们只是 |
| 1273 | doing less with other people. | 少做别人。 |
| 1274 | And one in six people worldwide are affected by loneliness. | 全世界有六分之一的人受到孤独的影响。 |
| 1275 | And I think that is because we're having less conversation | 我想是因为我们谈话少了 |
| 1276 | and if we're having it, it's happening asynchronously. | 如果我们有它, 它正在同步发生。 |
| 1277 | Or, and this is the last hardest point, | 或者,这是最后一个难点, |
| 1278 | is we are now talking to technology | 我们现在在谈论科技 |
| 1279 | more than talking to each other. | 不只是彼此说话 |
| 1280 | And I don't just mean through technology. | 我不仅仅是通过技术。 |
| 1281 | Yes, we've been talking through technology | 是的,我们一直在谈论 通过技术 |
| 1282 | for a long time, but only recently | 很久了,只是最近才开始 |
| 1283 | are we talking to technology. | 我们在谈论科技。 |
| 1284 | And when I talk to my technology, | 当我和我的技术交谈时, |
| 1285 | it sounds different than when I talk to you. | 听起来跟我跟你说话时不一样 |
| 1286 | Like I was sitting next to my husband and he was working | 就像我坐在我丈夫旁边,他还在工作 |
| 1287 | and he was like talking to his AI | 他就像跟他的AI说话 |
| 1288 | and he was like, do better. | 他好像,做得更好。 |
| 1289 | That's terrible work, do better. | 这工作太糟糕了 做得更好 |
| 1290 | And then I asked him a question, he turned to me | 我问他一个问题,他转向我 |
| 1291 | and I was like, you better not tell me to do better. | 我当时想, 你最好别告诉我做得更好。 |
| 1292 | And that is because we're talking technology | 那是因为我们在谈论科技 |
| 1293 | in a way that we would never talk to other humans, | 以我们永远不会与其他人类交谈的方式, |
| 1294 | but our brain doesn't always know the difference. | 但我们的大脑并不总是知道 区别。 |
| 1295 | And so I think this muscle is atrophying. | 所以我认为这个肌肉正在萎缩。 |
| 1296 | And on this point of like knowing whether you are a good | 这一点,就像知道你是不是一个好人 |
| 1297 | conversationalist talker, there was a recent study | 谈话论者,最近有个研究 |
| 1298 | of over a thousand Americans and they found that 95% | 超过一千个美国人 他们发现95% |
| 1299 | of people have worked with someone who talks too much. | 和那些说太多话的人合作 |
| 1300 | These chatty coworkers spend an average of 90 minutes | 这些闲聊同事平均花90分钟 |
| 1301 | of their work day just talking. | 他们的工作日只是说话。 |
| 1302 | And 71% of respondents said talkative coworkers prevented | 71%的受访者说 谈话同事被阻止 |
| 1303 | them from getting their work done. | 他们从完成他们的工作。 |
| 1304 | Yes. | 对 |
| 1305 | How does one know if they are the person | 谁知道他们是谁 |
| 1306 | that talks too much? | 说得太多了吗? |
| 1307 | First is let's do an intervention on this, | 首先让我们做一个干预, |
| 1308 | is go back if you have recorded Zoom calls | 如果您已经录制了缩放通话, 请返回 |
| 1309 | and just time yourself. | 只是时间你自己。 |
| 1310 | There is a kind of appropriate, right? | 有种合适的,对不对? |
| 1311 | 15 to 45 seconds, 45 seconds is the most. | 15至45秒,45秒为最. |
| 1312 | Second, nonverbal cues. | 第二,非语言提示。 |
| 1313 | Someone is checking out if they are opening their mouth | 有人在检查他们有没有张开嘴 |
| 1314 | as if to say something. | 如是说言. |
| 1315 | That is a subtle cue that someone wants to turn | 这是一个微妙的提示,有人想转 |
| 1316 | but they are gonna wait. | 但是他们会等的 |
| 1317 | So if someone is opening their mouth, | 所以如果有人张开嘴 |
| 1318 | I call it the open fish, it means they wanna turn. | 我管它叫开口鱼 表示它们想转身 |
| 1319 | Like you did it to me earlier and I totally stopped. | 就像你之前对我做了一样 我完全停止了 |
| 1320 | Yeah, you did, yeah. | 是的,你确实,是的。 |
| 1321 | Yeah, cause I was like, oh, you want to say something? | 是啊,因为我像, 哦,你想说什么? |
| 1322 | Yeah, no, so I actually do give people cues | 是啊,不,所以我确实给别人提示 |
| 1323 | that I wanna say something sometimes. | 有时候我想说点什么 |
| 1324 | And some of them see them and some of them just do not. | 有些人看见他们,有些人却看不到。 |
| 1325 | I was like fully distracted. | 我像完全分心。 |
| 1326 | You're on this more sensitive end of the scale | 你站在这个更敏感的高度 |
| 1327 | where you're almost watching what I'm doing. | 在那里你几乎 看我在做什么。 |
| 1328 | And having done what, 700 of these interviews now, | 做了700次采访后 |
| 1329 | it's really fascinating to me that some people, | 这真的让我着迷 有些人, |
| 1330 | I have to like remain completely utterly still | 我一定要保持完全的静静 |
| 1331 | because they are surveilling me for cues | 因为他们监视我 |
| 1332 | that they're doing a good job or they want them. | 他们正在做一个好工作 或者他们想要他们。 |
| 1333 | And so if I move or like look away, | 所以,如果我移动或喜欢看远, |
| 1334 | they immediately change. | 他们立即改变。 |
| 1335 | Whereas other people don't even know I'm here, | 而其他人甚至不知道我在这里, |
| 1336 | which is actually what I prefer | 其实我更喜欢 |
| 1337 | because then I can like grace these notes | 因为我可以喜欢这些音符 |
| 1338 | and look in the books and I can like go to the toilet | 看着书,我可以去厕所 |
| 1339 | and come back and it's just easier. | 然后回来,它只是更容易。 |
| 1340 | And this is why this is not natural conversation. | 这就是为什么这不是自然的对话。 |
| 1341 | But I think people like you are better at conversation | 但我觉得像你这样的人比较会说话 |
| 1342 | because you see conversation not as a megaphone | 因为你不会把谈话当成扩音器 |
| 1343 | in which you're shouting through, | 在其中你喊过, |
| 1344 | you see it as continual feedback. | 你认为这是持续的反馈。 |
| 1345 | And that's why I have to sometimes be on edge | 这就是为什么我有时不得不处于边缘 |
| 1346 | with people like you cause I know | 和你这样的人在一起是因为我知道 |
| 1347 | that you're taking cues from me. | 你从我这里得到线索 |
| 1348 | Right, and also like I'm looking for your eyebrow raises. | 对,我还在找你眉毛 |
| 1349 | Right, like one is Neil deGrasse Tyson says | 对 就像尼尔·德格拉斯·泰森说的 |
| 1350 | that every book is every eyebrow raising thing | 每本书都是眉毛升起的东西 |
| 1351 | he's ever said. | 他曾经说过 |
| 1352 | Because he'll go on airplanes and he'll just talk to people | 因为他会坐飞机和别人说话 |
| 1353 | and when they go, ah, then he writes it down. | 当他们走了,啊,然后他写下来。 |
| 1354 | And so I'm doing the same thing for you | 所以我也为你做同样的事情 |
| 1355 | is I'm looking at your eyebrows very closely. | 我非常仔细地看着你的眉毛 |
| 1356 | Don't ever get Botox. | 永远不要得到肉毒杆菌。 |
| 1357 | It'll be so hard to read you. | 读你的话会很难的 |
| 1358 | And so if you raise your eyebrows, | 所以如果你举起眉毛 |
| 1359 | I wanna double click on it, right? | 我想双击它,对不对? |
| 1360 | Because you're the taste maker, right? | 因为你是制作品味的人,对吧? |
| 1361 | I know I'm saying things that interest me, | 我知道我在说一些我感兴趣的话 |
| 1362 | but might not interest you. | 但也许对你没兴趣 |
| 1363 | So if you say something, if you raise your eyebrows, | 所以,如果你说什么, 如果你抬起眉毛, |
| 1364 | I'm gonna go deeper. | 我会更深入。 |
| 1365 | I'll give you an example or tell you a story. | 我举个例子或告诉你一个故事。 |
| 1366 | And this is like, this is why this is not | 这就像,这就是为什么这不是 |
| 1367 | a normal conversation and conversation will go like this. | 正常的谈话和谈话会像这样进行 |
| 1368 | Those moments go viral, right? | 那些时刻是病毒,对不对? |
| 1369 | Like when you go, ah, like those are like the replayed parts. | 就像你走的时候 那些就像重播的部分 |
| 1370 | Like the end of that thing. | 就像那个东西的尽头。 |
| 1371 | Right, and unfortunately we're all here | 对,很不幸我们都在这里 |
| 1372 | cause we're trying to reach people, right? | 因为我们想联系别人,对吧? |
| 1373 | And so if you are going, ah, and you raise your eyebrows | 所以,如果你要去, 啊,你举起眉毛 |
| 1374 | and I'm gonna double click. | 我会加倍点击。 |
| 1375 | So if no one is doing that to you, | 所以如果没人这样对你 |
| 1376 | if you're in a conversation back and forth | 如果你在谈话 前后 |
| 1377 | and there are no eyebrow raises | 也没有眉毛升起 |
| 1378 | and there's no ooh, ah, wow. | 和没有哦,啊,哇。 |
| 1379 | And they are either looking away or having that open mouth. | 他们要么视而不见,要么张开嘴。 |
| 1380 | And by the way, that's also how I can interrupt someone. | 顺便说一句,我也可以打断别人 |
| 1381 | If I interrupt someone politely, I'll go. | 如果我礼貌地打断别人 我就走 |
| 1382 | It used to be that working for yourself | 以前是为自己工作 |
| 1383 | was a massive, massive risk, | 是一个巨大的,巨大的风险, |
| 1384 | but that world has completely changed. | 但那个世界已经彻底改变。 |
| 1385 | If you've got a business idea | 如果你有商业想法 |
| 1386 | that you can't stop thinking about, | 你无法停止思考, |
| 1387 | I think you owe it to yourself to at least try | 我想你欠自己的,至少试试 |
| 1388 | and make it happen. | 并让它发生。 |
| 1389 | And that is where our show sponsor, Shopify comes in. | 这就是我们的节目赞助商 肖菲兹进来的地方 |
| 1390 | Their smart platform includes everything you need | 他们的智能平台包括你需要的一切 |
| 1391 | to start selling and get that idea off the ground. | 开始卖掉这个想法 |
| 1392 | They have this drag and drop editor. | 他们有这个拖放编辑器。 |
| 1393 | They have this AI sidekick and helps you. | 他们有一个AI的帮手 并且帮助你。 |
| 1394 | They have analytics and you don't need to be an expert | 他们有分析,你不需要当专家 |
| 1395 | to get going. | 继续前进。 |
| 1396 | Shopify在上课时最好 | |
| 1397 | Make sure that you're getting paid from day one. | 确保你从第一天开始就得到报酬 |
| 1398 | It helps more of your customers finish their purchase | 它能帮助更多的客户完成他们的购买 |
| 1399 | because their checkout is so efficient | 因为他们的退票效率很高 |
| 1400 | and it saves their info for next time. | 它会保存他们的信息 下次。 |
| 1401 | Personalized checkouts like that equal more conversion, | 个性化的抽查,像这样,等于更多的转换, |
| 1402 | equal a faster growing business. | 相当于一个增长更快的企业。 |
| 1403 | Nothing kills that early enthusiasm you have for a new idea | 没有什么能扼杀你对新想法的热情 |
| 1404 | from that first initial step to get going, | 从第一步开始 |
| 1405 | being difficult, complicated or expensive. | 困难,复杂或昂贵。 |
| 1406 | And you need to save as much time and money | 你要省点时间和钱 |
| 1407 | so that you can focus all of it | 这样你就可以集中一切 |
| 1408 | on growing your actual business. | 继续你的生意 |
| 1409 | 这就是Shotify给你的。 | |
| 1410 | 前往Shofify.com 斜线巴特利特 | |
| 1411 | and you can start your free trial right now. | 你现在就可以开始免费审判了 |
| 1412 | One of the smartest things a business can do | 企业最聪明的事情之一 |
| 1413 | is build like a bigger company | 是建设像一个更大的公司 |
| 1414 | without actually hiring like one. | 而不是像雇用一样 |
| 1415 | But the problem we will face is that most companies | 但我们要面对的问题是 大多数公司 |
| 1416 | don't have every skill in house. | 家里没有所有技能 |
| 1417 | So when I look at the businesses seeing real success today, | 所以,当我看 企业看到真正的成功今天, |
| 1418 | the consistent pattern with all of them | 与它们一致的模式 |
| 1419 | is how quickly they move. | 他们动作多快? |
| 1420 | They bring in specialists with skills in emerging areas | 他们引进了在新兴领域有技能的专家 |
| 1421 | to keep themselves ahead. | 保持自己领先。 |
| 1422 | Even in our company, we spent the last year | 即使在我们公司, 我们花了去年 |
| 1423 | pulling in talent across areas like AI native strategy, | 吸引人才跨越AI本土战略等领域, |
| 1424 | no code builds and product workflows. | 没有建立代码和产品工作流程。 |
| 1425 | And we find this talent for our longtime partner, | 我们找到这种天赋 为我们的长期伴侣, |
| 1426 | Fiverr Pro. (英语). | |
| 1427 | Their premium service only shows you vetted talent | 他们的溢价服务只显示你经过审查的才华 |
| 1428 | so you've always got the safeguard | 所以,你总是有保障 |
| 1429 | that anyone you pull in to help you with a complex project | 任何人你拉进来 帮助你 一个复杂的项目 |
| 1430 | has the skills that you're after | 有你追求的技能 |
| 1431 | and will deliver to the same high standards | 并达到同样的标准, |
| 1432 | as your internal team. | 作为你的内部团队。 |
| 1433 | And most importantly, they'll keep up with the pace. | 最重要的是,他们会跟上速度。 |
| 1434 | It's a simple strategy, but it lets us stay agile | 这是一个简单的策略,但它让我们保持敏捷 |
| 1435 | without compromising on quality. | 不损害质量。 |
| 1436 | So if you need these kinds of skills in your business, | 所以如果你在生意上需要这些技能 |
| 1437 | 向pro.fiverr.com 寻找开拓性人才 | |
| 1438 | to fill your businesses gaps. | 以填补您的商业空白。 |
| 1439 | That's pro.fiverr.com. | 这是pro.fiverr.com. 互联网档案馆的存檔,存档日期2013-09-02. |
| 1440 | I'll be honest, Vanessa. | 说实话,凡妮莎 |
| 1441 | I was thinking about someone that I might consider | 我在想一个我可能考虑过的人 |
| 1442 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}成为过头的话题 | |
| 1443 | And when they talk, | 当他们说话时, |
| 1444 | I don't think they have any concept | 我觉得他们没有任何概念 |
| 1445 | that there's anybody else in the room. | 房间里还有其他人 |
| 1446 | I think they might as well have their eyes | 我觉得他们最好有眼睛 |
| 1447 | completely closed. | 完全关闭。 |
| 1448 | That's kind of, I was just thinking about it the other day | 差不多吧,我前几天还在想 |
| 1449 | when I was with this person. | 我和这个人在一起的时候 |
| 1450 | And they might as well be sat there like this | 他们最好坐在那里像这样 |
| 1451 | and they're just, and they're gonna finish | 他们只是, 他们要去完成 |
| 1452 | when they feel like they've run out of things. | 当他们觉得自己已经用尽了一切 |
| 1453 | This is, there are two types of conversational people. | 这是,有两种对话的人。 |
| 1454 | There's entertainers and appreciators. | 有艺人和欣赏者. |
| 1455 | One of the biggest questions I get is, | 我最大的问题之一是, |
| 1456 | how do I talk to VIPs? | 我怎么跟贵宾说话? |
| 1457 | How do I talk to my boss? | 我怎么跟我老板说话? |
| 1458 | And this is exactly this. | 这就是这个。 |
| 1459 | And I don't know if they're a VIP or not. | 我不知道他们是不是贵宾 |
| 1460 | It actually doesn't matter. | 这其实不重要。 |
| 1461 | They are an entertainer. | 他们是一个娱乐家。 |
| 1462 | The way I discovered this framework | 我发现这个框架的方式 |
| 1463 | is I was in the green room for a speaking event | 我当时在绿屋里演讲 |
| 1464 | and a very famous person came in. | 一个非常有名的人进来了 |
| 1465 | I can tell you who it was later. | 我可以告诉你后来是谁 |
| 1466 | Very, very famous. | 非常,非常有名的。 |
| 1467 | Who was it? | 是谁? |
| 1468 | We're gonna cut this? | 我们要剪掉这个? |
| 1469 | No, I'll keep it in. | 不,我会保持它。 |
| 1470 | I think he's pretty famous. | 我觉得他挺出名的 |
| 1471 | Massively famous. | 大规模出名. |
| 1472 | Okay, okay. | 好,好,好,我们走 |
| 1473 | He comes in and we have like a little bit of downtime | 他进来了,我们有点停工 |
| 1474 | before he has to go up. | 在他必须上去之前 |
| 1475 | And I watched person after person try. | 我看着一个人试一试 |
| 1476 | You know when you watch someone try | 你知道当你看着别人尝试 |
| 1477 | and this is the same thing | 这是同样的事情 |
| 1478 | when someone's approaching their boss or a VIP. | 当有人接近他们的老板或贵宾时 |
| 1479 | And they all tried the same way. | 他们都以同样的方式尝试。 |
| 1480 | Either a compliment or a question. | 或赞或问. |
| 1481 | Oh, I love your stuff so much. | 哦,我非常爱你的东西。 |
| 1482 | I've been watching you since I was a kid. | 我从小就看着你 |
| 1483 | Oh my gosh, you changed my life. | 哦,我的上帝,你改变了我的生活。 |
| 1484 | Compliment or question. | 恭敬或问. |
| 1485 | Oh, what's the best thing you've ever done? | 哦,你做过的最好的事是什么? |
| 1486 | I won't get too specific. | 我不会说得太具体 |
| 1487 | You know, what was your, | 你知道,你是谁, |
| 1488 | do you have any advice for me as a young person? | 你对我这个年轻人有什么建议吗? |
| 1489 | Right, it was either compliment or question | 对,不是恭维就是质疑 |
| 1490 | and he was just not having it. | 他只是没有。 |
| 1491 | Hmm, yeah, yeah, nice to meet you. | 嗯,是的,是的,很高兴见到你。 |
| 1492 | Right, like quick selfie. | 对,像快速的自拍。 |
| 1493 | Just not engage. | 只是没有接触。 |
| 1494 | And I was like, wow. | 我当时想,哇。 |
| 1495 | That's what I would have advised back then. | 那时我就会这么建议 |
| 1496 | Either go with a compliment or a question, no. | 要么是恭维 要么是问题 不 |
| 1497 | Then one person came up. | 然后就出现了一个人 |
| 1498 | It was actually one of the AV guys. | 其实是AV的人之一 |
| 1499 | So he was gonna mic him. | 所以他打算给他麦克风。 |
| 1500 | And he said, can I tell you the funniest story? | 他说 我能告诉你最有趣的故事吗? |
| 1501 | And he was like, and you could literally see him. | 他就像,你可以看到他。 |
| 1502 | Was like, yeah. | 喜欢,是的。 |
| 1503 | And this guy begins to tell him hilarious stories | 这家伙开始告诉他有趣的故事 |
| 1504 | about the first time he watched one of his movies. | 他第一次看电影的时候 |
| 1505 | Hilarious stories about him | 关于他的有趣故事 |
| 1506 | and his siblings playing sports. | 和他的兄弟姐妹在运动。 |
| 1507 | And you know, he's laughing. | 你知道,他笑着呢 |
| 1508 | The guy is laughing. | 这家伙在笑 |
| 1509 | And then he starts asking him questions. | 然后他开始问他的问题。 |
| 1510 | And I realized he wants to be entertained. | 我意识到他想被娱乐 |
| 1511 | He doesn't want to entertain him. | 他不想娱乐他。 |
| 1512 | So what I realized was | 所以我意识到 |
| 1513 | there are certain people who wanna entertain. | 有些人想娱乐 |
| 1514 | They speak longer. | 他们说话更长。 |
| 1515 | So they're more at risk of talking too much. | 所以他们更可能说太多话 |
| 1516 | They want you to laugh at their jokes. | 他们想让你嘲笑他们的笑话 |
| 1517 | They wanna share their stories. | 他们想分享他们的故事。 |
| 1518 | They're love language in conversation | 他们是谈话中的爱情语言 |
| 1519 | that what gives them energy | 给他们能量的东西 |
| 1520 | is other people giving them adoration | 是别人给他们的启示 |
| 1521 | or listening to their stories, listening to their ideas. | 或者听他们的故事, 听他们的想法。 |
| 1522 | They love giving advice. | 他们喜欢给建议。 |
| 1523 | They talk more in conversation. | 他们谈话时会多说话 |
| 1524 | The other type of person, and I think this is you, | 另一种人,我想这是你, |
| 1525 | and actually this is me, | 其实这是我, |
| 1526 | even though it doesn't look that way on podcasts, | 虽然在播客看来不是这样 |
| 1527 | we are appreciators. | 我们是欣赏者。 |
| 1528 | I talk all day long for my work. | 我整天为我的工作说话 |
| 1529 | The last thing I do when I wanna go to dinner is talk. | 我最不想去吃晚饭的就是聊天 |
| 1530 | In fact, when people ask me deep questions, | 事实上,当人们问我 深刻的问题, |
| 1531 | I sometimes am like, can we go back to level one | 我有时会说,我们可以回到一级 |
| 1532 | and can you just tell me everything? | 你能告诉我一切吗? |
| 1533 | Appreciators talk less. | 感谢者少说话。 |
| 1534 | They love to laugh at other people's stories. | 他们喜欢嘲笑别人的故事. |
| 1535 | They love to hear interesting, | 他们喜欢听到有趣的, |
| 1536 | aw, weird, surprising, embarrassing things. | 奇怪 令人惊讶 尴尬的事 |
| 1537 | They are much more hesitant to open up about themselves. | 他们更不愿公开自己。 |
| 1538 | Like as long as we've been talking, | 就像我们一直在谈论, |
| 1539 | we are not personally on level three, right? | 我们不是个人 在三级,对不对? |
| 1540 | Like we are able to hide that because we keep it back. | 就像我们能隐藏它,因为我们把它藏起来。 |
| 1541 | It is critical when you're talking to bosses or VIPs | 和老板或贵宾说话很关键 |
| 1542 | to know which one you're talking to. | 知道你在跟谁说话 |
| 1543 | Entertainers want questions, | 艺人想问问题 |
| 1544 | but appreciators want people to tell them stories, right? | 但欣赏者希望人们 告诉他们的故事,对不对? |
| 1545 | They don't want a lot of questions. | 他们不想问太多问题 |
| 1546 | So your friend is an entertainer. | 你的朋友是个娱乐家 |
| 1547 | So you get to make the choice of, | 所以,你可以做出选择, |
| 1548 | are you gonna go into their superpower | 你会进入他们的超能力 |
| 1549 | and let them just entertain you and keep going | 让他们只是娱乐你,继续前进 |
| 1550 | and keep talking as much as they want? | 继续说他们想要的? |
| 1551 | Or do you want the ball? | 还是你想要球? |
| 1552 | What if the thing they're saying is, | 如果他们说的是, |
| 1553 | because when you hear entertainer, | 因为当你听到娱乐者, |
| 1554 | I interpret that as you're coming up to someone | 我从你对某人的理解来理解 |
| 1555 | and sharing something that is fun and interesting | 分享乐趣和乐趣 |
| 1556 | and whatever, but there's some people that roll up | 随便啦,但有些人会卷起来 |
| 1557 | and they say, they talk about themselves | 他们说,他们谈论自己 |
| 1558 | and that's what they wanna talk about. | 这就是他们想谈的。 |
| 1559 | They wanna, you know, could be a self-esteem issue. | 他们想要,你知道, 可能是一个自尊的问题。 |
| 1560 | They wanna convince you that they are whatever. | 他们想说服你 他们是什么。 |
| 1561 | Conversational narcissist. | 辩才自性. |
| 1562 | Okay, is that a thing? | 好吧,这是一件事吗? |
| 1563 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 1564 | So these are people in conversation | 所以这些是谈话中的人 |
| 1565 | and this is when the levels still hold. | 这时,水平仍然维持。 |
| 1566 | In fact, sometimes a conversational narcissist | 其实,有时一个对话的自恋者 |
| 1567 | will take themselves, they'll walk themselves | 他们自己走 |
| 1568 | right up all three levels. | 升到三个级别 |
| 1569 | They'll answer for themselves in level one. | 他们会在一级中为自己负责 |
| 1570 | They'll tell you all about their goals | 他们会把目标告诉你的 |
| 1571 | and they'll tell you the most deepest things | 他们会告诉你最深层的事 |
| 1572 | that you did not wanna know. | 你不会想知道的 |
| 1573 | And that's when you get like verbal vomit, right? | 这时候你变得像 口头呕吐,对不对? |
| 1574 | Like someone just like, they won't stop talking | 就像一个人一样,他们不会停止说话 |
| 1575 | and they're just telling you things | 他们只是告诉你一些事情 |
| 1576 | that you didn't even wanna know. | 你甚至没有想知道。 |
| 1577 | You have a choice. | 你有选择 |
| 1578 | You can either try to teach them | 你也可以教他们 |
| 1579 | that that's not the way that they should be in conversation | 他们不应该这样谈话 |
| 1580 | and you can literally say, is it my turn yet? | 你可以说,轮到我了吗? |
| 1581 | Do you wanna hear about mine? | 你想听听我的吗? |
| 1582 | Do you wanna hear about my goal, right? | 你想听听我的目标吗? |
| 1583 | Like if this is the person you're gonna invest in | 碞钩琌硂璶 |
| 1584 | and you care for and you like, | 你关心,你喜欢, |
| 1585 | you have to stand up for what you wanna share. | 你要为想要分享的东西而站起来 |
| 1586 | In your experience, | 根据你的经验 |
| 1587 | where does that conversational narcissism come from? | 这种自恋是哪里来的? |
| 1588 | Insecurity. | 不安全 |
| 1589 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 1590 | Right, this person's insecure. | 这个人没有安全感 |
| 1591 | I don't even know them. | 我甚至不认识他们。 |
| 1592 | They're insecure and also my bet | 他们不安全,还有我的赌注 |
| 1593 | is they're trying to impress you. | 他们想给你留下深刻印象 |
| 1594 | My bet is they're trying to find something | 我敢打赌,他们想找到什么 |
| 1595 | to raise your eyebrows. | 以举眉毛. |
| 1596 | But they don't realize that the more they talk, | 但是他们没有意识到 他们越多说话, |
| 1597 | the more you're like, can I go home? | 你越喜欢,我可以回家吗? |
| 1598 | Do you think they know | 你认为他们知道 |
| 1599 | that they're a conversational narcissist? | 他们是一个对话自恋者? |
| 1600 | Do you think they're listening right now | 你觉得他们现在在听吗? |
| 1601 | and think, fuck, that's me? | 想想,他妈的,这就是我? |
| 1602 | Or do they not have that level of, | 难道他们没有这种能力吗? |
| 1603 | because the person that I was referring to, | 因为我提到的那个人, |
| 1604 | they know they talk too much | 他们知道他们说话太多了 |
| 1605 | because they say it and they've had the feedback | 因为他们说, 他们已经得到了反馈 |
| 1606 | multiple and they literally will say, I talk too much, | 多次,他们会说,我说太多了, |
| 1607 | but then they can't seem to stop | 但是他们似乎无法停止 |
| 1608 | because it's so deeply ingrained in them | 因为它是如此深深的内在 |
| 1609 | from their childhood. | 从他们的童年。 |
| 1610 | So I'm wondering if they, you know, | 所以我想知道他们是不是... |
| 1611 | they're listening now and they go, okay, that's me. | 他们正在听,他们走了,好吧,这是我。 |
| 1612 | Because my next question is like, how do they fix it? | 因为我的下一个问题就是,他们怎么解决? |
| 1613 | Curiosity. | 好奇心无穷. |
| 1614 | That's an easier question. | 这是一个更容易的问题。 |
| 1615 | I actually don't think there's a hard and fast rule. | 其实我并不认为有一个艰难而快速的规则。 |
| 1616 | Some conversational narcissists are aware of it | 有些自恋者知道 |
| 1617 | and hate themselves for it. | 恨自己为它。 |
| 1618 | Like they literally know they're doing it | 就像他们真的知道他们这样做 |
| 1619 | and they're like, why stop talking? | 他们就像,为什么停止说话? |
| 1620 | Like they literally know what's happening | 就像他们真的知道发生了什么 |
| 1621 | and they're like, why? | 他们喜欢,为什么? |
| 1622 | Why am I doing this? | 我为什么要这么做? |
| 1623 | But they can't stop | 但他们不能停止 |
| 1624 | because they're so scared of the awkward silence. | 因为他们害怕尴尬的沉默 |
| 1625 | And by the way, we asked, you know, a couple thousand people, | 顺便说一句,我们问,你知道, 几千人, |
| 1626 | what is your greatest conversational fear? | 什么是你最大的 谈话恐惧? |
| 1627 | I thought it was gonna be rejection or judgment. | 我以为这是拒绝或判断。 |
| 1628 | No, it was awkward silences or not knowing what to say. | 不,这是尴尬的沉默 或不知道说什么。 |
| 1629 | Very mechanical. | 非常机械 |
| 1630 | And I thought, wow, 4,000 people, | 我想,哇,4000个人, |
| 1631 | their biggest conversational fear is not being rejected. | 他们最大的谈话恐惧 并没有被拒绝。 |
| 1632 | That was one of the options on the multiple choice. | 这是多种选择的选择之一。 |
| 1633 | It's running out of things to say. | 话已尽. |
| 1634 | So the reason they're talking too much | 所以,他们说话太多的原因 |
| 1635 | is because they are terrified of that moment | 因为他们害怕那一刻 |
| 1636 | where they're sitting with Steven Bartlett | 他们和史蒂芬·巴特利坐在一起 |
| 1637 | and there's a silence. | 而有寂灭. |
| 1638 | And then you're like, bye. | 然后,你喜欢,再见。 |
| 1639 | I like the silence. | 我喜欢沉默 |
| 1640 | I mean, as a podcast, you have to come to terms | 我的意思是,作为一个播客, 你必须得出条件 |
| 1641 | with the fact that the guests might stop talking | 客人可能不再说话 |
| 1642 | at any moment and you might not have anything else to say. | 在任何时刻,你可能没有任何其他话要说。 |
| 1643 | That's why I don't have a podcast. | 所以我没有播客 |
| 1644 | So, and then the way that they fix it is curiosity, right? | 所以,然后他们修复的方式 是好奇心,对不对? |
| 1645 | I do believe in like assertive curiosity, | 我相信像自信的好奇心, |
| 1646 | like not just the follow-up, like tell me more, | 像不只是后续, 像告诉我更多, |
| 1647 | but like the what, the how, the why, the when. | 但喜欢什么,如何,为什么,何时。 |
| 1648 | I think that those like what, how, why, when, | 我认为,这些喜欢什么,如何,为什么,何时, |
| 1649 | that assertive curiosity of like, | 那种自信的好奇心, |
| 1650 | let's actually dig into this dream. | 我们来做个梦吧 |
| 1651 | Like, let's really talk about it. | 像,让我们真正谈论它。 |
| 1652 | Wait, I'm confused. | 等等,我有点困惑 |
| 1653 | So if we had a conversational narcissist here, | 所以,如果我们有一个谈话 自恋在这里, |
| 1654 | are you telling me how they would recover from that? | 你是说他们会从中恢复过来? |
| 1655 | They would recover from it by being aggressively | 他们会从中恢复过来的 充满活力 |
| 1656 | or assertively curious about you. | 或者对你有强烈的好奇心 |
| 1657 | Okay, but they know, I feel like they know that. | 好吧,但他们知道, 我觉得他们知道这一点。 |
| 1658 | I feel like they know they talk too much. | 我觉得他们知道他们说话太多了 |
| 1659 | Okay, then I'm gonna say something | 好吧,那我就说点什么 |
| 1660 | you're not gonna like it. | 你不会喜欢的 |
| 1661 | Maybe you're not giving them enough to be curious about. | 也许你没有给他们足够的好奇。 |
| 1662 | What I would ask next time is, are you curious about me | 下次我会问的是 你对我好奇吗 |
| 1663 | or do you not feel the curiosity? | 还是你没有好奇心? |
| 1664 | Because saying, do you wanna know my answer | 因为说,你想知道我的答案 |
| 1665 | or is it my turn yet is a way of being like, | 还是现在轮到我了? |
| 1666 | is there curiosity there? | 有好奇心吗? |
| 1667 | I know that's really important. | 我知道这很重要 |
| 1668 | Like I think in relational patterns, | 就像我想的 关系模式, |
| 1669 | like there are really conversational patterns | 就像有真正的对话模式 |
| 1670 | that we can have. | 我们可以有。 |
| 1671 | So we're talking a lot about new-ish people, | 所以,我们谈论了很多 新人, |
| 1672 | but how about the people you've known for a long time? | 但你认识很久的人呢? |
| 1673 | My goal, my deepest wish for this podcast | 我的目标,我对播客最深切的祝愿 |
| 1674 | is that you will go have a conversation, | 你会去谈谈, |
| 1675 | a cornerstone conversation with someone | 与某人的奠基石对话 |
| 1676 | and ask all nine questions. | 并问一切九问. |
| 1677 | Now, if you're in a conversational rut, | 如果你在谈话中 |
| 1678 | and this can happen in friendships, | 这可以在友谊中发生, |
| 1679 | it can happen with people who are used | 可能发生在被利用的人身上 |
| 1680 | to being the over-talker in their relationship. | 成为他们关系中的谈话者 |
| 1681 | It can happen in marriages | 婚姻中也会这样 |
| 1682 | or marriages where you only talk about logistics. | 或者只谈后勤的婚姻 |
| 1683 | This is going to break the rut | 这会打破常规的 |
| 1684 | because the whole point of this is turn-taking. | 因为这整个要点是转弯。 |
| 1685 | So I would be just so curious | 所以我会很好奇 |
| 1686 | if you go to dinner with this person and you're like, | 如果你和这个人一起吃晚饭... |
| 1687 | hey, my friend Vanessa came on the pod | 嘿,我的朋友凡妮莎来了舱 |
| 1688 | and she gave us nine questions. | 她给我们九个问题 |
| 1689 | Do you wanna do them together? | 你想一起做吗? |
| 1690 | I'll go first. | 我先问. |
| 1691 | Could she do it? | 她能做到吗? |
| 1692 | It's a she, right? | 是她,对吧? |
| 1693 | He. | 是他吗? |
| 1694 | He, could he do it, right? | 他,他能做到这一点,对不对? |
| 1695 | Could he do it? | 他能做到吗? |
| 1696 | And so this is how you can break that rut | 这样你就能打破这个圈套 |
| 1697 | to see if there's actual curiosity there | 看看有没有真正的好奇心 |
| 1698 | because I always assume the best in people. | 因为我总是假设 最好的人。 |
| 1699 | I'm hoping this person is very well-intentioned, | 我希望这个人很有用 |
| 1700 | just has deep insecurity. | 只是有深层的不安全。 |
| 1701 | It is the case, in my opinion. | 我认为情况就是这样。 |
| 1702 | If you were to give a framework, | 如果你给一个框架, |
| 1703 | it can sometimes break you out | 它有时会把你弄出来 |
| 1704 | of a conversational rut with someone. | 和某个人谈话 |
| 1705 | I remember, I think it was you that said to me | 我记得,我想是你跟我说的 |
| 1706 | that the key to great conversations or interactions | 伟大的对话或互动的关键 |
| 1707 | was being interested, not interesting. | 是感兴趣,不是有趣。 |
| 1708 | Yeah, after Dale Carnegie, yes. | 是的,在戴尔·卡内基之后,是的。 |
| 1709 | I wish I had created with it. | 我希望我用它创造了。 |
| 1710 | So Dale Carnegie is sort of the person | 所以戴尔·卡内基是那种人 |
| 1711 | who allowed me to think about being less selfish. | 他允许我考虑 减少自私。 |
| 1712 | I think that if you go into a conversation | 我认为,如果你去谈话 |
| 1713 | thinking all about yourself, how can I be impressive? | 想想你自己, 我怎么能令人印象深刻? |
| 1714 | How can I be smart and funny? | 我怎么能聪明幽默呢? |
| 1715 | And how can I get them to like me? | 我怎么能让他们喜欢我? |
| 1716 | That's okay, but it's quite selfish | 没关系,但很自私 |
| 1717 | and it's a lot of pressure. | 压力很大 |
| 1718 | It's a lot of pressure. | 压力很大. |
| 1719 | When I started thinking, how can I go into conversation | 当我开始思考时,我怎么能谈 |
| 1720 | putting this person at ease? | 让这个人安心点? |
| 1721 | How can I make them feel like they can impress me? | 我怎么让他们觉得他们能给我留下深刻印象? |
| 1722 | How can I be interested to make them interesting? | 我怎么能让他们感兴趣? |
| 1723 | And hopefully that has a rebound effect | 希望这有反弹效果 |
| 1724 | of making me interesting. | 让我有趣 |
| 1725 | That is a very selfless, | 这是一个非常无私, |
| 1726 | conversational generosity. | 对话慷慨。 |
| 1727 | One small goal for the book was to create more conversational | 书的一个小目标就是创造更多的对话 |
| 1728 | generosity. | 宽宏大量。 |
| 1729 | That if you're in conversation and someone is over talking, you can be generous | 如果你在说话,有人在说话, 你可以慷慨 |
| 1730 | enough to either say, hey, can I have a turn? | 足以说,嘿,我可以有一个回合? |
| 1731 | Or to let them entertain you because the entertainers | 或让他们娱乐你 因为娱乐者 |
| 1732 | or to ask even more questions. | 或问更多的问题。 |
| 1733 | And you said to me last time that there was a study that found the most liked people were | 你上次对我说 有个研究发现最受欢迎的人 |
| 1734 | those that were interested in others in conversation. | 那些对别人对话感兴趣的人 |
| 1735 | The most popular kids were the kids who had the longest list of people they liked. | 最受欢迎的孩子是那些他们喜欢的人名单最长的孩子. |
| 1736 | Meaning, | 这意味着, |
| 1737 | if you want to be likable, you have to go around assertively and aggressively liking | 如果你想讨人喜欢,你必须勇敢地走来走去 |
| 1738 | as many people as possible. | 尽可能多的人 |
| 1739 | Because if you go into conversations thinking, how could | 因为如果你进入对话 思考,怎么可能 |
| 1740 | I like you? | 我喜欢你? |
| 1741 | How could I like you? | 我怎么会喜欢你? |
| 1742 | How could I like you more? | 我怎么会更喜欢你? |
| 1743 | It's less about you. | 更不关你的事 |
| 1744 | And | 还有 |
| 1745 | you're asking questions that are setting them up to be likable. | 你问的问题 设置它们 可爱。 |
| 1746 | I wonder, and I wish | и稱稱 и辨 |
| 1747 | I could take a crack at this conversational narcissist that you know, if I were to ask | 我可以在这种自恋的谈话中开口 如果我问 |
| 1748 | more questions of them, like really set them up to entertain me, to get deep, to actually | 更多的问题,像真的设置 他们来娱乐我, 深入,实际上 |
| 1749 | let them go to level two and maybe level three if they want to, would they calm down? | 让他们去二级,也许三级 如果他们愿意,他们会冷静下来吗? |
| 1750 | Would | 会 |
| 1751 | their insecurity feel, I'm understood. | 他们的不安全感,我理解。 |
| 1752 | I'm chosen. | 我被选中了 |
| 1753 | I'm loved. | 我被爱着 |
| 1754 | I think, and this is just, | 我想,这只是, |
| 1755 | you're an intimidating person, right? | 你是一个恐吓的人,对不对? |
| 1756 | Like I, I thank goodness have confidence. | 就像我一样 感谢上帝有自信 |
| 1757 | But if | 不过如果 |
| 1758 | I was dinner with you, I think I would feel a little bit nervous too. | 我和你共进晚餐 我想我也会觉得有点紧张 |
| 1759 | Maybe not anymore. | 也许不再是了。 |
| 1760 | But when we first met you for sure two years ago, my guess is that this person doesn't | 但两年前我们第一次见你时 我猜这个人不会 |
| 1761 | feel liked, doesn't feel understood by you. | 感觉喜欢,不觉得被你理解。 |
| 1762 | It doesn't feel chosen by you. | 它不觉得你选择。 |
| 1763 | And the quieter | 更安静的 |
| 1764 | you become, when you're just trying to respect them, the quieter you become, the more they | 当你试图尊重他们时 你变得越安静越多 |
| 1765 | don't feel those three things as they keep talking. | 别在他们不断说话的时候 感觉到那三件事 |
| 1766 | So I would try to ask better, deeper | 所以我会试着要求更好,更深入 |
| 1767 | questions, like lean into it and see if that can get them calm enough to be like, Oh, he | 问问题,比如靠进去 看看能不能让他们冷静下来 |
| 1768 | chose me. | 选择了我。 |
| 1769 | He loves me. | 他爱我。 |
| 1770 | What's interesting is I observe with people like that, that, that they step more into | 有趣的是,我看到这样的人, 他们更步入 |
| 1771 | the conversational narcissism with certain people. | 与某些人对话的自恋 |
| 1772 | Yes. | 对 |
| 1773 | So with certain individuals. | 对某些人来说 |
| 1774 | So for example, in this case, if I was a beautiful woman, this individual would, would be full | 比如说,在这种情况下,如果我是一个美丽的女人, 这个个人,将会充满 |
| 1775 | blown like word vomit. | 像呕吐物一样 |
| 1776 | Like it would fully come out, you know? | 喜欢它会完全出来,你知道吗? |
| 1777 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 1778 | Or just women generally, | 或只是一般女人, |
| 1779 | even if it's a platonic relationship becomes even more like intent on wants to be understood, | 即使是柏拉图式的关系 更像是想要被理解的意向 |
| 1780 | chosen and loved by that beautiful woman. | 被那个美丽的女人所选择和喜爱 |
| 1781 | Right. | 对 |
| 1782 | Like such a deep desire. | 喜欢这样一个深的欲望。 |
| 1783 | ┮ии | |
| 1784 | wonder if you could disengage it with actually answering those three questions for them, | 想知道你能不能把问题解开 回答这三个问题 |
| 1785 | like putting them at ease. | 就像放轻松一样 |
| 1786 | I also think it's important to talk about an aspect of bad | 我也觉得说坏事很重要 |
| 1787 | conversation is making the driver of the conversation feel like they're a bad driver. | 谈话让谈话的司机觉得自己是个坏司机 |
| 1788 | Right. | 对 |
| 1789 | This person is driving conversation, right? | 这个人在开对话 对吧? |
| 1790 | Like they know they're an over talker and | 就像他们知道自己是个过头的人 |
| 1791 | they're driving and all the passengers are like, and what does a bad driver do? | 他们正在开车 所有乘客都喜欢, 一个坏司机做什么? |
| 1792 | They | 他们 |
| 1793 | get even more tense. | 更加紧张。 |
| 1794 | They get even worse at it. | 他们越来越糟糕了。 |
| 1795 | And so the flip side of that is how can | 因此,翻转的一面 是怎样才能 |
| 1796 | you make them feel like a better driver? | 你让他们觉得自己是个更好的司机? |
| 1797 | And one way that we accidentally, the opposite | 一种方式,我们不小心,相反 |
| 1798 | of dream building is dream killing. | 梦想建筑就是梦杀 |
| 1799 | So dream killing is when we shut down a dream, we make | 所以梦杀就是当我们关闭一个梦,我们做 |
| 1800 | someone feel not liked, make them feel not understood. | 有人觉得不喜欢, 让他们觉得不明白。 |
| 1801 | I think that very smart people | 我觉得很聪明的人 |
| 1802 | have an accidental effect where they dream kill with logic. | 有意外的效果 他们梦想着用逻辑杀人 |
| 1803 | You know, I, I call it my, my lovely | 你知道,我,我称之为我的,我的可爱 |
| 1804 | smart leaders. | 聪明的领袖。 |
| 1805 | I say you're fact checking, not gut checking, right? | 我说你是在检查,不是在检查肠道,对吧? |
| 1806 | If you're fact checking | 如果你正在检查 |
| 1807 | all the time, if you're, you know, trying to accuracy kill, but they're not there yet, | 一直以来,如果你,你知道, 试图精确的杀人, 但他们还没有在那里, |
| 1808 | you're actually creating a conversational scarcity. | 你实际上在制造 对话的稀缺。 |
| 1809 | That's going to make them feel like, | 那会让他们觉得 |
| 1810 | I have to prove myself. | 我必须证明自己。 |
| 1811 | I have to dig in. | 我必须去挖掘。 |
| 1812 | Now I'm going to talk to you more because I want to | 现在我要多和你谈谈 因为我想 |
| 1813 | convince you. | 说服你 |
| 1814 | And so I think the opposite of dream building is dream killing and very smart | 所以我觉得梦幻建筑的反面是 梦幻杀人和非常聪明 |
| 1815 | people tend to dream kill by accident and it shuts down connection completely. | 人们往往会梦到意外死亡 它完全切断了连接 |
| 1816 | Like not only | 不仅如此 |
| 1817 | will you not get to level two and not, you'll, you'll bounce on a level one or you won't have a | 你会不会进入二层,你不会,你会, 你会弹跳到一层,或者你不会有一个 |
| 1818 | relationship with that person. | 和那个人的关系 |
| 1819 | I was just thinking about in my previous company, we interviewed | 我刚刚在前一家公司想 我们面试过 |
| 1820 | somebody and they were extremely, extremely intelligent. | 某个人 他们非常聪明 |
| 1821 | And it was really obvious to me | 这对我来说是显而易见的 |
| 1822 | how intelligent they were, like unbelievable, their credentials, unbelievable. | 他们是多么聪明,像难以置信, 他们的资质,难以置信。 |
| 1823 | And then they | 然后他们 |
| 1824 | went through the interview process and the interview feedback from the people that met them | 经历了面试过程和会见他们的人的面试反馈 |
| 1825 | was like neutral or negative. | 就像是中立或消极 |
| 1826 | And I remember thinking, do you know what it is? | 我记得在想,你知道是什么吗? |
| 1827 | This person | 这个人 |
| 1828 | is so obsessed with the pursuit of truth that they put being liked or being pleased or whatever | 沉迷于追求真理 以致于他们喜欢或高兴 |
| 1829 | to the side. | 到边上。 |
| 1830 | They just care if what you're saying is true or not. | 他们只是在乎你所说的是不是真的 |
| 1831 | And that in some respects might | 在某些方面 |
| 1832 | hold them back. | 拦住他们 |
| 1833 | It's also like why I think that this person is amazing, but getting through like | 这也是为什么我觉得这个人是惊人的, 但得到像 |
| 1834 | an interview process or those sort of social dynamics would be really tough, right? | 面试过程 或那种社会动态 将是非常艰难的,对不对? |
| 1835 | And this takes us back to why conversation is essential. | 这让我们回想起为什么对话至关重要。 |
| 1836 | Very smart people think all about | 非常聪明的人会考虑 |
| 1837 | their ideas, their knowledge, the facts, but you can be the smartest person in the room. | 他们的想法,他们的知识和事实, 但你可以是最聪明的人 在房间里。 |
| 1838 | But if people don't feel connected to you, they don't believe you're smarts. | 但是,如果人们不觉得 与你联系, 他们不相信你是聪明的。 |
| 1839 | That comes directly from the research. | 这直接来自研究。 |
| 1840 | Competence without warmth is likely to leave us feeling | 没有温暖的能力可能让我们感到 |
| 1841 | suspicious. | 可疑. |
| 1842 | So you could be incredibly smart, but if you cannot manage the mechanics of | 所以,你可以 令人难以置信的聪明, 但是如果你不能管理机械 |
| 1843 | conversation, people feel suspicious. | 谈话,人们感到怀疑。 |
| 1844 | It literally triggers a part of their brain that goes, | 它真的触发了他们的大脑的一部分, |
| 1845 | I don't know about this person. | 我不知道这个人。 |
| 1846 | And so the reason why level one is so critical, | 因此,为什么第一级如此关键, |
| 1847 | but we can't skip it, is what we're doing is we're trying to create ease. | 但我们不能跳过它, 是我们在做什么 我们试图创造轻松。 |
| 1848 | That's another way of | 这是另一种方式 |
| 1849 | saying warmth, right? | 说温暖,对不对? |
| 1850 | We're trying to make it so someone feels like they can be understood with us. | 我们想让别人觉得他们能理解我们 |
| 1851 | And then if they're understood, they're chosen. | 然则若能通达,则选之. |
| 1852 | And if they're chosen, they're loved, right? | 如果他们被选中了,他们就会被爱,对吧? |
| 1853 | Like | 喜欢 |
| 1854 | it's a three. | 这是三。 |
| 1855 | And this actually brings me to that third. | 这实际上让我到了第三个。 |
| 1856 | I'm so bad at this. | 我很不擅长这个。 |
| 1857 | Let's see. | 让我看看。 |
| 1858 | I will let that. | 我会让。 |
| 1859 | So I struggled with this, what are we on? | 所以,我挣扎着,我们是什么? |
| 1860 | Sixth question. | 第六问. |
| 1861 | Because I started this | 因为我开始这个 |
| 1862 | research with over a hundred questions and I was touching them. | 研究了一百多个问题 我碰了它们 |
| 1863 | I mean, I was making everyone try | 我的意思是,我让每个人尝试 |
| 1864 | every different kind. | 所有不同的种类。 |
| 1865 | I was using my students. | 我在利用我的学生 |
| 1866 | They were trying them. | 他们正在尝试。 |
| 1867 | I was teaching. | 我在教书 |
| 1868 | Also, | 还有, |
| 1869 | I wanted to make sure they worked at work. | 我想确保他们在工作。 |
| 1870 | They worked at home and they worked with kids, | 他们在家里工作 和孩子们一起工作, |
| 1871 | right? | 对吧? |
| 1872 | Like you can do a lot of it and you have to also them slightly, but I want to make sure | 就像你可以做很多,你也要做一些, 但我要确定 |
| 1873 | they work across the board. | 他们的工作范围很广。 |
| 1874 | And the sixth question is actually a signature question. | 而第六个问题其实是一个签名问题. |
| 1875 | So this is taking a step back and thinking, what do you love to talk about? | 所以这是退一步 思考, 你喜欢谈论什么? |
| 1876 | What do you love to | 你爱什么 |
| 1877 | talk about in conversation? | 在谈话中谈论? |
| 1878 | What do you love to talk about conversation when you're talking? | 谈话时喜欢谈什么? |
| 1879 | What do I love to talk about? | 我喜欢谈什么? |
| 1880 | Yeah, not here, but talk about. | 是的,不在这里,但谈论。 |
| 1881 | Oh gosh. | 天呐 |
| 1882 | We're going to reverse engineer it. | 我们要逆向设计 |
| 1883 | This six questions about reverse engineering your love. | 这六个问题 逆向工程你的爱。 |
| 1884 | I like to talk about psychology of people and stuff. | 我喜欢谈论 心理学的人和东西。 |
| 1885 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 1886 | So great. | 真不错 |
| 1887 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 1888 | So we, you would want to reverse engineer questions about how and why | 所以,我们,你会想反向 工程师的问题如何和为什么 |
| 1889 | if you love psychology and behavior, you're going to want to ask someone, why did you make that | 如果你喜欢心理学和行为 你会想问某人 你为什么这么做 |
| 1890 | choice? | 选择? |
| 1891 | You know, what made you choose that path? | 你知道,是什么让你选择了这条路? |
| 1892 | You're going to want to ask more behavioral | 你要问更多的行为 |
| 1893 | questions, even in an interviewing perspective. | 问问题,甚至从采访的角度。 |
| 1894 | Let's talk about this for a second. | 谈此二事. |
| 1895 | So I believe | 所以说,我相信 |
| 1896 | in behavioral interviewing. | 在行为采访。 |
| 1897 | I believe in interview questions that actually let you know about | 我相信采访问题 其实让你知道 |
| 1898 | someone's behavior, not just their opinions. | 有人的行为 不只是他们的意见 |
| 1899 | So for example, interviewers will make the mistake | 比如说,采访者会犯错 |
| 1900 | of asking, what's your greatest weakness? | 你最大的弱点是什么? |
| 1901 | It's not a good question because they're going to answer | 这不是一个好问题 因为他们会回答 |
| 1902 | a prepared answer. | 已准备好的答复。 |
| 1903 | It's not going to be real. | 岂能成真. |
| 1904 | It's not going to tell you much. | 它不会告诉你很多。 |
| 1905 | I would rather | 我宁愿这样 |
| 1906 | you ask, what would your last manager say is your greatest weakness? | 你最后的经理会说你最大的弱点是什么? |
| 1907 | That's a very different | 这不一样 |
| 1908 | question. | 问题。 |
| 1909 | First of all, it's not going to be as practiced. | 首先,它不会像练习的那样。 |
| 1910 | Maybe after now it will be, but you're | 也许现在以后它会是, 但你是 |
| 1911 | asking the person to step outside themselves from a behavior perspective. | 要求当事人从行为角度出发 |
| 1912 | When we step outside of | 当我们走出 |
| 1913 | ourselves and think about someone else's opinion, we see different things, even about ourselves. | 我们自己考虑别人的意见, 我们看到不同的事物,甚至我们自己。 |
| 1914 | And likely they're going to call your previous manager, right? | 他们可能会打电话给你的前任经理,对吧? |
| 1915 | So they can confirm that in a | 这样他们就能在 |
| 1916 | phone call. | 电话 |
| 1917 | And you can even say, when I call your previous manager, what would your previous | 你甚至可以说, 当我打电话给你的前任经理, 你的前任会是什么 |
| 1918 | manager say is your greatest weakness? | 经理说你最大的弱点吗? |
| 1919 | You're going to get a juicy answer, right? | 你会得到一个多汁的答案,对不对? |
| 1920 | And you can | 你会的 |
| 1921 | go verify it. | 去核实一下 |
| 1922 | Another behavioral technique, which is why I like behavior so much, is not just asking, | 另一种行为技术,这就是为什么我这么喜欢行为, 不只是问, |
| 1923 | tell me about a recent time that you managed a project, right? | 告诉我最近有一次 你管理了一个项目,对吧? |
| 1924 | We always ask for examples | 我们总是问一些例子 |
| 1925 | in an interview. | 在采访。 |
| 1926 | That's okay, but not great because they're going to pick the best one. | 这没关系,但并不伟大 因为他们会选最好的。 |
| 1927 | What you're better off saying is, tell me about the most recent time you managed a project. | 你最好说说 你最近管理项目的事 |
| 1928 | It should be in the last three months, two months, not a year or two ago. | 应该是过去三个月,两个月,而不是一年或两年前。 |
| 1929 | So asking for | 所以请求 |
| 1930 | recency, asking for other people's opinions. | 谨慎,征求他人意见. |
| 1931 | The reason why I say this is because that would be | 我之所以这么说是因为... |
| 1932 | crafting a type of answer that you want, trying to craft information about a previous experience | 设计你想要的答案类型,试图编织关于以前经历的信息 |
| 1933 | that is real and not rehearsed. | 这是真实的,没有排练。 |
| 1934 | So for you, you'd be wanting to ask more behavior questions | 所以对于你,你会想 问更多的行为问题 |
| 1935 | when you're at dinner, when you're here, obviously, because that's what you love. | 当你在晚餐, 当你在这里,很明显, 因为你喜欢。 |
| 1936 | Many success people have signature questions. | 许多成功的人都有签名问题. |
| 1937 | 我认识Amy Poehler 在她的播客最后 | |
| 1938 | she always asks, what are you laughing about? | 她总是问, 你在笑什么? |
| 1939 | What's making you laugh recently? | 近来你笑什么? |
| 1940 | That's her | 碞琌 |
| 1941 | signature question. | 签名问题。 |
| 1942 | An example I use in the book is Ginny Urick has a challenge, A Thousand Hours | 我在书里用的一个例子是 金妮·尤里克有一个挑战,千小时 |
| 1943 | Outside, which is spending a thousand hours with her kids outside, playing more outside off of | 外面,这是花一千小时 与她的孩子在外面, 玩更多的外面 |
| 1944 | screens. | 屏幕。 |
| 1945 | And she asks everyone in her podcast, what was your favorite outdoor memory? | 她问所有播客 你最喜欢的户外记忆是什么? |
| 1946 | Because | 因为 |
| 1947 | she loves talking about outdoors and childhood nostalgia. | 她喜欢谈论户外和童年的怀旧。 |
| 1948 | So the sixth question is inviting, | 所以,第六个问题就是邀请, |
| 1949 | what do you love to talk about? | 你喜欢谈什么? |
| 1950 | How can we engineer that in your conversations by looking | 我们怎样才能在你的谈话中通过寻找 |
| 1951 | for opportunities to bring it up? | 有机会提出来吗? |
| 1952 | So at this stage, I would turn to somebody when I feel like I've | 所以,在这个阶段,我会 转向某人,当我感觉我已经 |
| 1953 | got that depth with them and I'd say, what do you love to talk about? | 和他们有那么深,我会说,你喜欢谈什么? |
| 1954 | And they might say, | 他们可能会说, |
| 1955 | I really love talking about sports. | 我真的很喜欢谈论运动。 |
| 1956 | And then are you saying that opens a door and gives me a clue | 然后,你是在说,打开一个门 给我一个线索 |
| 1957 | as to how to connect with them? | 如何与他们建立联系? |
| 1958 | So future conversations with them should orientate | 所以将来和他们的对话应该有方向 |
| 1959 | towards sports or psychology or whatever their answer was. | 他们的答案是什么 |
| 1960 | No, it would be, you can ask what do | 不,它会,你可以问什么 |
| 1961 | I love to talk about? | 我喜欢谈论? |
| 1962 | It would be, you, Stephen, love to talk about behavior, so you are going to | 你 史蒂芬 喜欢谈论行为 |
| 1963 | ask more behavioral questions of them. | 问他们更多的行为问题。 |
| 1964 | So you get to create your sixth question. | 所以,你可以创建你的第六问题。 |
| 1965 | So right now, | 所以现在 |
| 1966 | because I'm talking about conversation, my signature question is, what's your favorite | 因为我说的是对话 我的签名问题是 你最喜欢什么 |
| 1967 | conversation starter? | 开始对话? |
| 1968 | When I was researching cues, it was, who's the most charismatic person you know? | 当我在研究线索时 谁是你认识的最有魅力的人? |
| 1969 | When I was researching captivate, it was, what's your favorite body language cue? | 当我在研究诱饵时 你最喜欢的肢体语言提示是什么? |
| 1970 | Or do you ever | 或者你曾经 |
| 1971 | think about body language? | 考虑身体语言? |
| 1972 | So it can change based on your interest, but you're creating it for | 所以,它可以改变 根据你的兴趣, 但你创造它为 |
| 1973 | yourself. | 你自己来 |
| 1974 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 1975 | So this one's a bespoke one. | 故此是说言. |
| 1976 | You get to write this one yourself. | 你自己写这个 |
| 1977 | Exactly. | 没错 |
| 1978 | So I'm interested in psychology. | 所以我对心理学感兴趣。 |
| 1979 | So this one would be psychology related topics for me. | 对我来说,这个是心理学方面的话题。 |
| 1980 | Right. | 对 |
| 1981 | Or like what drives you. | 或者像什么驱动你。 |
| 1982 | I actually think that some of the level three questions | 其实我觉得三层的一些问题 |
| 1983 | might interest you, but I'm curious. | 你可能会感兴趣, 但我好奇。 |
| 1984 | Let's see. | 让我看看。 |
| 1985 | All right. | 好吧,我们走。 |
| 1986 | Level three. | 三级. |
| 1987 | Are you ready? | 你准备好了吗? |
| 1988 | Wait, before we do level three, just want to close off on this, do you talk too much test? | 等等,在我们做第三级之前, 只是想结束这件事, 你讲太多测试? |
| 1989 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 1990 | So I have a, do you talk too much test in the book? | 所以,我有一个, 你在书里说太多测试? |
| 1991 | It's right here. | 就在这里 |
| 1992 | So you're going | 所以你会去 |
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