传播疾病如何成为一门赚钱的生意 | 凯瑟琳·刘博士
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | Don't put words in my mouth about blame. | 别在我嘴里说责怪 |
| 0:02 | I accept my fate. | 我接受我的命运 |
| 0:04 | I accept the fact that I was | 我接受事实,我是 |
| 0:05 | I think you did imply that this was capitalist. | 我想你确实暗示这是资本主义 |
| 0:07 | It is an American capitalist. | 他是美国资本家。 |
| 0:08 | It's a kind of | 这是一种 |
| 0:09 | American capitalism, right? | 美国资本主义,对不对? |
| 0:11 | And so there is also this sense that I'm not blaming anyone. | 所以还有一种感觉 我没有责怪任何人 |
| 0:15 | It's an infrastructural failing with regard to industrialized countries and more and more | 工业化国家的基础设施越来越不健全 |
| 0:21 | industrialized countries in the Anglo-American world want to emulate American capitalism. | 英美世界的工业化国家希望效仿美国的资本主义. |
展开字幕全文（194 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Don't put words in my mouth about blame. | 别在我嘴里说责怪 |
| 2 | I accept my fate. | 我接受我的命运 |
| 3 | I accept the fact that I was | 我接受事实,我是 |
| 4 | I think you did imply that this was capitalist. | 我想你确实暗示这是资本主义 |
| 5 | It is an American capitalist. | 他是美国资本家。 |
| 6 | It's a kind of | 这是一种 |
| 7 | American capitalism, right? | 美国资本主义,对不对? |
| 8 | And so there is also this sense that I'm not blaming anyone. | 所以还有一种感觉 我没有责怪任何人 |
| 9 | It's an infrastructural failing with regard to industrialized countries and more and more | 工业化国家的基础设施越来越不健全 |
| 10 | industrialized countries in the Anglo-American world want to emulate American capitalism. | 英美世界的工业化国家希望效仿美国的资本主义. |
| 11 | Health is always about a balance. | 健康总是一个平衡。 |
| 12 | Our bodies do it all the time. | 我们的身体总是这样 |
| 13 | We're constantly brought back | 我们不断被带回来 |
| 14 | into balance. | 进入平衡。 |
| 15 | Every aspect of our physiology is brought back into balance by our own internal | 我们身体的每一个方面 都由我们内部的平衡 |
| 16 | individual systems of care. | 个人护理系统。 |
| 17 | At the planetary level things are brought back into balance. | 在行星层面,事物重新得到平衡。 |
| 18 | The tides are brought bring the sea back into balance. | 潮汐使大海恢复平衡 |
| 19 | They create the interstitial ranges | 它们创造了间歇范围 |
| 20 | between the sea and the land where our ancestors crawled out of the ocean to become us. | 在海洋和陆地之间 我们的祖先从海洋爬出 成为我们 |
| 21 | Without | 无 |
| 22 | that domain of care, that balance, that sense of attention to balance, we wouldn't be here. | 我们不会在这里。 |
| 23 | It's | 这是 |
| 24 | maintained to this day by the moon as it happens and the moon in some sense has a constant attention | 在月亮的出现和月亮的 某种意义上一直关注着它 |
| 25 | to this balance. | 达到这一平衡。 |
| 26 | Now you might say that's not care but you're devaluing care by dehumanizing it. | 现在你可能说这不关你的事 但你却在贬低护理的价值 因为它非人性化。 |
| 27 | I'm not. | 我没有。 |
| 28 | I'm arguing that care has a specific dynamic principle that's related to health, | 我主张护理有一个特定的动态原则 与健康有关, |
| 29 | has to pay attention to the question of balance and has to be the restorative force that brings | 必须注意平衡问题,并且必须是带来平衡的恢复力。 |
| 30 | us back into balance. | 我们回到平衡。 |
| 31 | Constant care to the physiological needs when we're infants and then | 经常照顾生理需求 当我们是婴儿,然后 |
| 32 | the careful withdrawing of that attention without taking away altogether as we grow up so that we | 谨慎地撤销这种关注,而不会在我们长大后完全消失,以便我们 |
| 33 | can maintain psychological health. | 能够保持心理健康。 |
| 34 | Where does that fit with capitalism and where does it fit with the | 哪里适合资本主义 哪里适合资本主义 |
| 35 | point that David made that we've spent more and more on health care, which isn't necessarily care, | 大卫说,我们已经花费 越来越多的保健, 这不一定是关心, |
| 36 | it's not necessarily the same thing, within capitalism and therefore capitalism can adapt. | 在资本主义内部,它不一定是一回事,因此资本主义可以适应. |
| 37 | I would argue that actually capitalism has reached the point of no return within that model | 我想说,实际上资本主义 已经到了那个模式内没有回报的地步 |
| 38 | because we are very rapidly moving to a point where we can no longer afford the health care bills | 因为我们正迅速发展到 我们再也负担不起医疗费了 |
| 39 | that we've accumulated through capitalism and one of the reasons for that is that the predominant | 我们通过资本主义积累起来 原因之一是 |
| 40 | driving force of capitalism is not around care, it's around carelessness. | 资本主义的驱动力不在于关心,而在于忽视。 |
| 41 | It's not an attention | 这不是一个注意 |
| 42 | to health, it's actually a profiteering from our own ill health and we see that specifically in | 从健康角度来说,这实际上是从我们自己的健康不佳中牟利,我们特别看到这一点。 |
| 43 | rise and rise of chronic diseases that are related first and foremost to the way that we live, to our | 慢性病的上升和上升,这些疾病首先与我们的生活方式有关,而且与我们的生活有关。 |
| 44 | diet and when we look at particularly that factor, that factor not the only factor, stress is another | 饮食,当我们特别考虑这个因素, 这个因素不是唯一的因素, 压力是另一个 |
| 45 | factor, environmental toxins are a factor in our health but diet is a big factor in the epidemic | 环境毒素是影响我们健康的因素 但饮食是造成流行病的一大因素 |
| 46 | of chronic health which now kills three quarters of people worldwide die through and lose the | 现在全世界四分之三的人死于慢性病, |
| 47 | of their life through chronic disease. | 在他们生命中通过慢性病。 |
| 48 | That is partly related to the unadulterated profiteering | 这和无耻的牟利有关 |
| 49 | of a big food industry which has been allowed to run rampant, profit from our own neuropsychology, | 一个大型食品工业 被允许经营猖獗 从我们自己的神经心理学中获利, |
| 50 | our own addiction to foods that make us ill and indeed the legitimization of that activity | 我们自己对食物的毒瘾 使我们生病,事实上 使这种活动合法化 |
| 51 | through the pursuit of economic growth in the name of capitalism. | 通过以资本主义的名义追求经济增长. |
| 52 | Now that is a model which | 现在这个模型 |
| 53 | created what I would call a false economy. | 创造了我称之为虚伪的经济。 |
| 54 | It created profits for the few but it created ill | 它为少数人创造了利润,但却造成了疾病 |
| 55 | health for the many and what is our answer to it? | 我们对此有何回应? |
| 56 | Our answer to it is a pharmaceutical industry that | 我们的答案是制药业 |
| 57 | is also intent on profit and it's profiteering from selling us cures to symptoms which no longer | 也是为了牟利 卖我们来治病 |
| 58 | address the underlying causes of the disease and enter even more toxins into our body and both of | 解决这一疾病的根本原因,并将更多的毒素进入我们的身体和我们的身体。 |
| 59 | things are legitimized through the pursuit of growth within capitalism that is itself addicted | 事物通过追求资本主义内部的增长而合法化,而资本主义本身也沉迷于资本主义之中. |
| 60 | to growth. | 成长。 |
| 61 | That's the sense I think in which we have to look at the underlying structures | 我认为我们必须从这个意义上 来研究基础结构 |
| 62 | and ask the question how do we get back to a care that is truly restorative? | 问我们如何恢复真正的恢复性护理? |
| 63 | Okay you're certainly | 好吧,你当然 |
| 64 | right this is something I know about and write about in terms of the food industry and some of | 这是我对食品工业的了解和写作 以及一些 |
| 65 | the practices of you know the whey foods are industrially processed, manufactured. | 你知道这些食品是工业加工和制造的 |
| 66 | It's also | 还有 |
| 67 | true that ozempic as the cure-all coming from big pharma is not going to work because there are | 真正的奥兹比克作为解药 全部来自大药店是不会起作用的 因为有 |
| 68 | still things that will go into the foods that we're eating even at less concentration that will | 仍然会进入食物中的东西, 我们吃,即使没有那么集中 |
| 69 | have ill effects in terms of inflammatory disease in terms of you know irritable bowel and so on. | 在炎症方面有不良影响 因为它知道刺激性肠道等等。 |
| 70 | However there's a political question here which is you know you have a faith in getting back to | 不过这里有个政治问题 你知道你有信心回到 |
| 71 | homeostasis letting our internal systems and our external environmental mechanisms kind of | 我们的内部系统 和外部环境机制 |
| 72 | get back into balance and regulation but isn't there also a kind of pitch at the moment politically | 回到平衡和规范的状态 但是现在不是也有点政治倾向吗 |
| 73 | in making people individually and personally responsible? | * 使个人和个人承担责任? |
| 74 | You know you should preventative | 你知道你应该预防 |
| 75 | medicine being about you should eat better you should look at what you're putting into your | 吃药应该吃得更好 看看你放什么进去 |
| 76 | system that it's your responsibility and I wonder if that's just not really fair when you know we | 系统,这是你的责任 我想知道这是否真的不公平 当你知道我们 |
| 77 | look at the food environments people live in and you think sometimes it's just impossible to find | 看看人们生活的食品环境,你觉得有时候是不可能找到的 |
| 78 | affordable, recognisable, delicious food that isn't filled with ultra-processed ingredients. | 价格低廉,可识别,美味的食物,没有被超加工成份填充. |
| 79 | So I worry that capitalism's kind of caring is going to put it back on the individual here. | 所以,我担心资本主义的关心 将会把它 回到这里的个人。 |
| 80 | Yeah you're absolutely right that is exactly what happens you know we fat shame people we talk about | 是啊,你绝对是对的 这正是发生的事情 你知道,我们胖了 耻辱的人,我们谈论 |
| 81 | lifestyle change as being individual responsibility. | 生活方式改变为个人责任。 |
| 82 | I mean let me just tell you a | 我的意思是,让我告诉你 |
| 83 | little personal story here because during the process of writing the care economy I was | 这儿的私人小故事 因为写到护理经济的过程中 |
| 84 | diagnosed as one of these people with a chronic disease which was diabetes it's related to sugar | 被诊断为患有糖尿病的慢性病 与糖有关 |
| 85 | and refined carbohydrates and the diets that are overwhelmed with sugar and refined carbohydrates | 精炼的碳水化合物和充满糖和精炼的碳水化合物的饮食 |
| 86 | and high blood sugar now affects something like one in three of the population, two in three of | 高血糖会影响三分之一的人口 三分之二的人口 |
| 87 | people of my age and is responsible for inflammatory diseases and many of the chronic diseases that are | 我这个年龄的人, 并负责 炎症和许多慢性病 |
| 88 | overwhelming the healthcare system. | 压倒了医疗系统。 |
| 89 | So you know and being faced with that and it was a kind of | 所以,你知道和面对 和它是一种 |
| 90 | as a healthy fit guy who looked after themselves and realising that I've been diagnosed with | 作为一个健康的合适人, 照顾自己 并意识到我已经诊断出 |
| 91 | something that affects actually an increasing number of people and is a part of a social problem | 影响越来越多的人 也是社会问题的一部分 |
| 92 | my instinct, initial instinct in the face of that shame in a sense was go away and try and fix it | 我的本能 面对这种羞耻的本能 从某种意义上说 已经消失了 尝试修补 |
| 93 | which I did my best to do but the first lesson that I found was that is almost impossible | 但我发现的第一个教训是 这几乎是不可能的 |
| 94 | because of the system that we live in. | 因为我们生活的系统。 |
| 95 | So you know there's a sense here in which we're looking | 所以,你知道有种感觉 在这里,我们正在寻找 |
| 96 | constantly medicine and our model of health is looking for pathogens, it's looking for | 我们的健康模式是寻找病原体 它正在寻找 |
| 97 | pathogenesis, what is the root of our illness? | 我们的病根是什么? |
| 98 | Is the root of the illness my personal behaviour? | 病根是我的个人行为吗? |
| 99 | It's a causal factor in the illness that I have, I did eat too much sugar, I was brought up in an | 这是我生病的原因之一 我吃太多糖了 我从小就养大 |
| 100 | environment in which that sugar was plentiful, I was designed in an environment where sugar was | 在那种糖丰富的环境中,我设计在一种 糖的环境下 |
| 101 | extremely scarce and I was living in a world in which people could profit from those two differences | 我生活在一个人们能从这两个差异中获利的世界中 |
| 102 | by creating a diet that ultimately is going to affect everyone. | 创造最终会影响每个人的饮食。 |
| 103 | I'm just one blip in the in | 我只是一个blip在英寸 |
| 104 | the radar of this chronic pandemic, I'm irrelevant to it and the lesson, my lesson not only from | 这场慢性大流行的雷达, 我和它无关 和教训, 我的教训不仅来自 |
| 105 | finding myself in that position but also finding how absolutely fucking difficult it is to change | 却又发现改变到底有多困难 |
| 106 | is that you can never expect population health by placing personal responsibility on the individual | 通过个人责任,你永远不能期望人口健康 |
| 107 | while the system is deliberately geared towards keeping them sick. | 而这个系统是故意让他们生病的。 |
| 108 | David your thoughts on this? | 大卫,你的想法呢? |
| 109 | Okay I don't normally find myself in the position of sticking up for capitalism, I regard myself as | 好吧,我通常不会发现自己 处于坚持资本主义的地位, 我把自己视为 |
| 110 | a social democrat, I'm perfectly aware of many of capitalism's failures but I'm not convinced by | 一个社会民主主义者 我很清楚资本主义的许多失败 但我不相信 |
| 111 | either Tim or Catherine on this. | 无论是蒂姆还是凯瑟琳 |
| 112 | I mean on the point about blaming capitalism for the fact | 我的意思是关于 指责资本主义的事实 |
| 113 | that you couldn't more easily combine a successful professional career and the | 你不可能更容易地结合 一个成功的职业生涯和 |
| 114 | family you wanted, well if you had lived in another country, another capitalist country | 如果你住在另一个国家 另一个资本主义国家 |
| 115 | which provided you with nearly two years essentially, two years maternity leave on | 基本上为您提供了近两年的产假, |
| 116 | essentially full pay which provides you with more or less free child care, you would have been able | 基本全额工资,为您或多或少提供免费的育儿服务,您本来可以 |
| 117 | to do those things and there are plenty of capitalist countries in the world that do provide | 世界上有很多资本主义国家提供 |
| 118 | that, they're called the Scandinavian countries. | 他们被称为斯堪的纳维亚国家。 |
| 119 | Can I just tell you that my husband has a brother | 我能告诉你,我丈夫有个哥哥吗? |
| 120 | and a sister, one who lives in Norway and one who lives in Germany and they had three children and | 和一个姐妹,一个住在挪威 一个住在德国,他们有三个孩子 |
| 121 | we had one. | 我们有一个。 |
| 122 | I'm not blaming capitalism, I'm saying that there is no American capitalism and | 我没有责怪资本主义,我是说,没有美国资本主义和 |
| 123 | the lack of infrastructure for care is what, don't put words in my mouth about blame, I accept my | 缺乏护理的基础设施是什么, 不要把话在我的嘴里 关于指责,我接受我的 |
| 124 | fate, I accept the fact that I was in America. | 我接受我在美国的事实 |
| 125 | I think you did imply that this was capitalism, | 我想你确实暗示这是资本主义 |
| 126 | it is American capitalism. | 这是美国资本主义。 |
| 127 | It's a kind of American capitalism right and so there is | 这是一种美国资本主义的权利,所以有 |
| 128 | this sense that I'm not blaming anyone, it's an infrastructural failing with regard to | 这种感觉,我没有责怪任何人, 这是一个基础设施的失败 关于 |
| 129 | industrialized countries and more and more industrialized countries in the Anglo-American | 英美工业化国家和越来越多的工业化国家 |
| 130 | world want to emulate American capitalism. | 世界希望效仿美国的资本主义。 |
| 131 | So what Tim described, well maybe you're not, | 蒂姆所描述的 也许你不是 |
| 132 | maybe you don't think so but I think so, anyway so what Tim was describing to you was also this kind | 也许你不这么认为 但我是这么想的 所以Tim给你描述的也是这种 |
| 133 | of infrastructure, food infrastructure, we call it the foodways. | 我们称它为食物通道 |
| 134 | You can try to choose | 你可以尝试选择 |
| 135 | but the foodways are structured insofar to addict you to sugar for instance. | 但是食物通道的结构 足以让你上瘾 比如说糖 |
| 136 | Sugar, salt and fat | 糖、盐和脂肪 |
| 137 | actually. | 事实上 |
| 138 | So we can't put this all on the individual. | 所以我们不能把这一切 个人。 |
| 139 | I'm not putting it on the individual | 我不把它的个人 |
| 140 | but I think you also have to recognize that a lot of this is to do with the freedoms that we have | 但我认为你也必须认识到 这很多事情都与我们拥有的自由有关 |
| 141 | chosen, the consequences of our decisions, our free choices to have much smaller families, | 选择,我们的决定的后果, 我们的自由选择 有更小的家庭, |
| 142 | to not care for our elderly people, to put them in homes. | 不关心我们的老年人,把他们安置在家中。 |
| 143 | We are making these choices every day | 我们每天都在做这些选择 |
| 144 | because we want to focus on our own self-actualization a lot of the time and I think | 因为我们想专注于我们自己的自我实现 很多时候,我想 |
| 145 | it's easy to scapegoat some sort of abstract outside force. | 它很容易替罪羊 某种抽象的外部力量。 |
| 146 | We are heading towards a situation | 我们正走向一个局面 |
| 147 | where the dependency ratio, when I was young there was like five workers for every retired person, | 我年轻时的受抚养人比率 每一个退休的人都有五个工人 |
| 148 | we're now three to one and it's heading south. | 我们现在是3比1 它朝南去了 |
| 149 | We will not be able to sustain a welfare state | 我们无法维持一个福利国家 |
| 150 | in the next 20 or 30 years. | 在接下来的二三十年里 |
| 151 | We're putting more costs because we're not caring after our own | 我们付出更多代价是因为我们不关心自己 |
| 152 | infants or old people so we're putting more costs on the state and there are fewer taxpayers there | 婴儿或老人 所以我们要给国家增加费用 那里纳税人更少 |
| 153 | to pay for what the state needs to do. | 以支付国家需要做的事。 |
| 154 | So we are going to have to change. | 所以我们必须改变。 |
| 155 | We're going to have to | 我们不得不 |
| 156 | think harder about domesticity and rebuilding the family in the modern age with our modern freedoms. | 更仔细地思考家庭问题,在现代重建家庭,同时利用我们的现代自由。 |
| 157 | So Catherine, I'm going to give you a last word on the general topic. | 凯瑟琳,我对这个话题 说最后一句话 |
| 158 | So I do think that there is an anti-social tendency within late capitalism to actually | 所以我确实认为,在后期资本主义中存在着一种反社会倾向,实际上, |
| 159 | make us more and more isolated from each other and this idea that domesticity will restore | 使我们越来越孤立 和这个想法 家庭会恢复 |
| 160 | a lack of sociality is one way of thinking about it, the more conservative traditional way of | 缺乏社交性就是一种思考方式 一种比较保守的传统方式 |
| 161 | go back to traditions, go back to the side of affectual care. | 回到传统,回到身体护理的一边。 |
| 162 | I am not an anti-family leftist. | 我不是一个反家庭左派分子。 |
| 163 | I think that it's one of those havens from a cruel world that should be supported but given | 我认为这是一个来自残酷世界的避难所之一 应该得到支持 |
| 164 | an infrastructural support. | 基础设施支助。 |
| 165 | What's happened in the United States and this is class society is that | 在美国发生的事情,这是阶级社会 |
| 166 | the rate of divorce among college-educated women has gone down way, way down. | 受过大学教育的妇女离婚率已经下降,下降。 |
| 167 | The rate of divorce | 离婚率 |
| 168 | among working-class women has gone way, way up. | 在工人阶级中,妇女已经走上了正路。 |
| 169 | The chances of you being born out of wedlock, | 你非婚生的机会, |
| 170 | born in a working-class world, are many times the chances of that than if you were born into | 出生在工人阶级世界, 比你出生在 |
| 171 | a family where both parents are college-educated. | 父母均受过大学教育的家庭。 |
| 172 | So it's almost as if, and this I am going to blame | 所以,它几乎是, 这,我要责备 |
| 173 | on capitalism, is in class society we've arrogated the family as a luxury item for the professional | 在阶级社会里 我们把家庭当作职业的奢侈品 |
| 174 | classes and left the working classes out of any shelter that they might have from the marketplace. | 并且把工人阶级排除在他们可能从市场上得到的任何避难所之外。 |
| 175 | Okay, great. | 好吧,伟大的。 |
| 176 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 177 | Tim, I know you're going to have a lot of thoughts and replies. | Tim 我知道你会有很多想法和答案 |
| 178 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 179 | Well, I mean thank you, Catherine, because you've made one of the points that our task is | 好吧,我的意思是,谢谢你,凯瑟琳, 因为你已经提出了一个要点 我们的任务是 |
| 180 | to understand why care is devalued, not as David did, very articulately, talk about all the ways | 理解为什么关心被贬低,而不是像大卫那样,非常明确地谈论所有的方法 |
| 181 | in which it's devalued. | 在其中,它被贬低。 |
| 182 | I mean, nobody really disagrees with that. | 我的意思是,没有人真的不同意这一点。 |
| 183 | So in that sense, like | 因此,从这个意义上来说, |
| 184 | Catherine, I sort of agree with where you're going. | 凯瑟琳 我同意你要去哪里 |
| 185 | But I wanted to pick you up. | 但我想来接你 |
| 186 | I mean, | 我是说... |
| 187 | I wanted to pick you up a couple of things I'd like to pick up. | 我想拿些东西给你 |
| 188 | One is what is care in itself? | 一是关心本身是什么? |
| 189 | And the other is where's capitalism's beef with care? | 另一种是资本主义的牛肉在哪里? |
| 190 | And I do think there's a beef. | 我确实觉得有牛肉。 |
| 191 | To continue watching this video, click the link in the top left or in the description below. | 要继续观看这段视频,请点击左上方或以下描述的链接. |
| 192 | With a free trial, you can enjoy the full talk and thousands more. | 有了自由的审判,你就可以享受到全面的谈话,还有上千人. |
| 193 | Thank you for being part of the conversation. | 谢谢你参与谈话 |
| 194 | Thank you for being part of the conversation. Thank you for being part of the conversation. | 谢谢你参与谈话 谢谢你参与谈话 |
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