实战练英文-极速口语 | 美国背弃阿拉伯盟友，容许以色列炸卡

实战练英文-极速口语 | 美国背弃阿拉伯盟友，容许以色列炸卡塔尔？不支持以色列，就不是MAGA派？｜Kirk 专访 Shapiro｜长文、批注、大字版、中英对照

发布于 2026-03-01 · 时长 17:40

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:00	So we're on Team Civilization here.	所以我们是文明队的
0:01	We want to see the maniacs of Hamas be defeated.	我们希望看到哈马斯的疯子被打败。
0:05	So we've seen	所以我们看到了
0:08	news this morning that, quite honestly, I'm a little confused by, and I was hoping you could	今早的消息说, 老实说, 我有点困惑, 我希望你能
0:11	navigate it and help us understand, which is that Israel bombed Qatar, which houses a lot of Hamas	帮助我们理解,这就是以色列轰炸了卡塔尔,卡塔尔是哈马斯的许多所在地。
0:18	officials.	官员
0:19	What happened here?	这里发生了什么?
0:20	And if I were to introduce just the skeptical question,	如果我只是介绍一个怀疑的问题
0:23	will this potentially endanger America's own interests in the Middle East?	这会不会危及美国在中东的利益?
0:27	So please, Ben,	所以请,本,

展开字幕全文（412 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	So we're on Team Civilization here.	所以我们是文明队的
2	We want to see the maniacs of Hamas be defeated.	我们希望看到哈马斯的疯子被打败。
3	So we've seen	所以我们看到了
4	news this morning that, quite honestly, I'm a little confused by, and I was hoping you could	今早的消息说, 老实说, 我有点困惑, 我希望你能
5	navigate it and help us understand, which is that Israel bombed Qatar, which houses a lot of Hamas	帮助我们理解,这就是以色列轰炸了卡塔尔,卡塔尔是哈马斯的许多所在地。
6	officials.	官员
7	What happened here?	这里发生了什么?
8	And if I were to introduce just the skeptical question,	如果我只是介绍一个怀疑的问题
9	will this potentially endanger America's own interests in the Middle East?	这会不会危及美国在中东的利益?
10	So please, Ben,	所以请,本,
11	help me better understand the situation.	帮我更好地了解情况
12	Sure.	当然
13	So I think that the lead up to understand here	所以,我认为线索在这里理解
14	is that Qatar sort of plays both sides when it comes to its negotiating stance between Hamas and	卡塔尔在哈马斯和以色列之间的谈判立场上,是采取双方立场。
15	Israel and the United States.	以色列和美国。
16	So it has provided extraordinary material support to Hamas directly,	因此,它直接向哈马斯提供了非同寻常的物质支持,
17	billions of dollars in material support to Hamas.	向哈马斯提供数十亿美元的物质支持。
18	The leadership of Hamas have been living in Qatar	哈马斯领导人一直生活在卡塔尔
19	for years at five-star hotels.	在五星级酒店呆了几年
20	Hamas' priorities have been pressed by Qatar in negotiations	卡塔尔在谈判中对哈马斯的优先事项施加压力
21	multiple times.	无数次。
22	Qatar has not put significant pressure on Hamas in the past to release the	卡塔尔过去没有向哈马斯施加重大压力,迫使其释放
23	hostages or to end the war.	或结束战争。
24	And so basically, as Israel nears the end of the war, which is what	基本上,随着以色列即将结束战争,
25	this last movement in Gaza City is supposed to be, there was a final offer that was put on the table	加沙城最后的一次行动应该是, 有一个最后的提议被摆在桌面上
26	actually by the Trump administration that essentially said that Hamas should release the remaining	事实上是川普政府说哈马斯应该释放其余的
27	48 hostages, meaning 28 dead bodies and 20 alive hostages, and the United States would then guarantee	48名人质,意思是28具尸体和20名活着的人质,美国将保证
28	through its own honest brokerage some sort of end to the war that would result in the disarming of	通过它自己的诚实中介某种战争的结束会导致解除
29	Hamas and the movement of the Gaza Strip to presumably some sort of coalitional government	哈马斯和加沙地带向某种联合政府的移动
30	supported by regional states and the rebuilding of the area.	在区域国家的支持下,重建该地区。
31	And Qatar was pushing Hamas,	卡塔尔正在推动哈马斯,
32	apparently, we heard, and Hamas this morning in Arabic actually rejected it.	显然,我们听到了,哈马斯今天上午用阿拉伯语实际上拒绝了它。
33	That's not been widely	这还不算广泛
34	reported by the media, but it's true.	被媒体报道,但这是事实。
35	Hamas actually rejected the American offer.	哈马斯实际上拒绝了美国的提议。
36	The president had	总统有
37	put out via Truth Social a statement saying, this is your last chance, and if you don't do that,	通过"真理社"发表声明说这是你最后的机会如果你不这么做
38	bad things are going to happen.	坏事将会发生
39	The idea that Israel would be able to fly 10 F-16s all the way	以色列能一路飞十架F-16
40	across the Middle East to Qatar to strike a very specific terror target in Doha without	从中东到卡塔尔在多哈打击一个非常具体的恐怖目标
41	American knowledge beggars the imagination.	美国知识乞求想象力。
42	It is extraordinarily unlikely to say the very least.	极不可能至少说一句。
43	Honestly, it would not be wildly improbable if Qatar knew that that was coming as well,	老实说,如果卡塔尔知道这也会发生,那也是不可能的,
44	and so Israel struck at the top level of the remaining Hamas in Qatar in an attempt to	因此,以色列袭击了留在卡塔尔的哈马斯的最高层,企图
45	basically change the negotiating status.	基本上改变谈判地位。
46	So the basic idea here was if you will not negotiate,	所以这里的基本想法是如果你不谈判,
47	if you refuse to get to the end of this war, well, then maybe we'll find somebody who can,	如果你拒绝结束这场战争那么也许我们会找到一个能
48	or maybe the idea is that you're safe nowhere until this war ends.	或者,也许想法是,你在哪里安全直到这场战争结束。
49	Additional pressure had	额外的压力
50	to be brought to bear, and that's why Israel did what it did.	所以以色列才会这么做
51	Obviously, I as well am on team	很明显,我也在队里
52	civilization.	人类文明
53	I'm very happy to see Hamas's top leaders killed.	我很高兴看到哈马斯的最高领导人被杀。
54	I hope that as many of them	我希望他们中的很多人
55	in the leadership with as little loss of civilian life as possible, I hope that as many of them	在领导层中,尽可能少地丧失平民生命,我希望其中尽可能多的人
56	died in this attack as humanly possible.	在这场袭击中死亡的尽可能是人类
57	And again, I'd be very surprised.	再说一次,我会非常惊讶。
58	I mean, we do	我的意思是,我们做
59	know actually from contemporaneous reporting that the United States was at least given the heads up	事实上,从当时的报导中得知美国至少被提醒了
60	the Israeli operation in the moments before it went.	以色列的行动在行动开始前的瞬间。
61	I just spent time in Japan, and one of the	我刚刚在日本度过了一段时光
62	things that kind of looms over Japan is that Japan, they engage in an unconditional surrender	那种笼罩着日本的事情就是日本,他们无条件投降
63	that they said, we're done.	他们说,我们结束了。
64	And they laid down their arms, obviously, after the two atomic bombs,	他们放下武器,显然,在两枚原子弹之后,
65	very controversial people have mixed opinions on it.	非常有争议的人对此意见不一。
66	I certainly do.	当然
67	But that is unconditional	但这是无条件的
68	surrender.	投降吧投降吧
69	Is that what Israel is aiming for here?	这就是以色列的目标吗?
70	I suppose that is a question that I get a lot on	我想这是一个问题我得到了很多
71	campus.	学校。
72	What does success look like?	成功是什么样子?
73	Because I think we could all agree a long war is not good	因为我觉得我们都同意长期战争不是好事
74	for Israel, a long, drawn out war.	对以色列来说,这是一场漫长的战争。
75	And we're now ending, we're coming towards two years in about a	我们即将结束大约两年后
76	month.	一个月。
77	So it's been about 23 months.	所以已经23个月了
78	So what does ultimate success look like in the Gaza Strip?	加沙地带的最终成功是什么样子?
79	My main critique of the Netanyahu administration in Israel and the Netanyahu government is they	我对以色列内塔尼亚胡政府和内塔尼亚胡政府的主要批评是:
80	didn't move faster.	没有移动得更快。
81	I think this should have been a much more accelerated process.	我认为,这是一个更加速的进程。
82	Israel set out at	以色列
83	the beginning of the war, which is something that was articulated by the Israeli government.	战争的开始是以色列政府所阐明的
84	Goal number one was to get as many hostages out as humanly possible to free the hostages.	目标一是尽可能让更多的人质出来解救人质
85	And	还有
86	second was to win the war.	第二是赢得战争。
87	In many ways, those are mutually exclusive goals, because if you actually	在许多方面,这些是相互排斥的目标,因为如果你真的
88	{\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}那么你必须用军事手段 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}要是想赢得战争
89	movement on the ground.	在地面上移动。
90	And meanwhile, Hamas is attempting to basically use the hostages as its	与此同时,哈马斯正试图基本上利用人质作为人质。
91	own form of human shields.	拥有人类盾牌
92	They use their own civilians as human shields.	他们使用自己的平民作为人盾.
93	They're also using	他们也使用
94	the hostages as a form of human shield.	人质是人盾的一种形式
95	And so as you came to the end of the war,	所以当你来到战争的尽头,
96	this is always going to be the question, is how the war kind of came to its final terminus.	这个问题总是要问, 战争是如何到最后结束的。
97	The priorities that Netanyahu has laid out publicly include essentially, basically it's	内塔尼亚胡公开提出的优先事项基本上包括:
98	let the hostages out and there can't be a future military threat to Israel.	让人质出来以后不可能有对以色列的军事威胁
99	Those are,	这些是,
100	if you had to sum it all up, those are the two things.	如果你不得不总结一下, 这些都是两件事。
101	How that materializes, in my opinion,	我认为,这是怎样实现的
102	is likely to be in Israeli military occupation of large swaths of the Gaza Strip, the setting	很可能是在以色列军事占领加沙地带的大片地区,
103	up of humanitarian areas, particularly on the coast and in Rafa in which humanitarian aid is	在人道主义地区,特别是在海岸和拉法的人道主义援助
104	provided, a pathway out for people who actually want to leave is the only conflict of which I'm	但对于真正想离开的人来说唯一的冲突是我
105	aware on planet earth in which there are outside countries telling people who would like to leave	地球上有外在国家告诉人们谁想离开
106	that they literally cannot.	他们实际上不能。
107	The Trump administration has been trying to facilitate the ability of	特朗普政府一直试图促进
108	people who want to leave to do so and has also been trying to facilitate the entry of not only	想要离开的人,也一直在努力便利他们进入
109	humanitarian aid, but investment into the areas that have been cleared of terrorists.	人道主义援助,但对已经清除恐怖分子的地区进行投资。
110	And then	礛
111	you can see some sort of Hamas free rebuilding.	你可以看到某种哈马斯的自由重建。
112	That would be the goal of the end of the war.	这将是结束战争的目标。
113	Now, my understanding is that the sort of last untouched area of the Gaza Strip in terms of	现在,我的理解是,加沙地带最后未受影响的地区,从
114	serious military operations is Gaza City.	严重的军事行动是加沙市。
115	It's why there's been so much focus on Gaza City.	故以加沙城为重.
116	Last I heard, Israel already controls something 40 to 50 percent of the territory in Gaza City.	最后,我听说以色列已经控制了加沙市40%到50%的领土。
117	They've been warning people to get out for at least a couple of weeks now.	他们警告人们至少要出去几个星期
118	Hamas has been	哈马斯一直
119	stopping people at checkpoints and turning them back and shooting them if they don't stay in the	在检查站拦住人,如果他们不留在
120	city to be used as human shields by Hamas.	被哈马斯用作人盾的城市。
121	So that's the current situation on the ground.	这就是目前当地的局势.
122	What other feedback or criticism would you have about this situation?	对于这种情况,你会有什么其他的反馈或批评?
123	I know that it's impossible for anyone to listen to everything that you ever say.	我知道任何人都不可能听你的言语
124	But looking at	但看着
125	this from an American perspective, what else would you say things could have been handled differently,	从美国的角度,你还会说事情可能会被不同处理,
126	maybe on the PR front, maybe also just on a conduct front?	也许在公关战线上也可能在行为战线上?
127	Where would you say as an outsider	作为外人你会说在哪里
128	things that could have been handled better, more efficiently, or with more precision?	能够更好、更高效或更精确地处理的事情?
129	So number one, there's no such thing as a perfect war.	第一,没有完美的战争
130	So obviously in any war,	所以很明显在任何战争中
131	there are going to be things that happen that are ugly and that are terrible,	会发生一些丑陋和可怕的事
132	and that is why war is a terrible thing.	这就是为什么战争是一件可怕的事情。
133	As far as a sort of operational front, again,	至于某种作战战线
134	I've spent an awful lot of time in Israel.	我在以色列待了很长时间
135	I've watched tape of operations happening,	我看过手术录像
136	drone operations.	无人机操作.
137	I've met with an enormous number of Israeli soldiers, young men and women,	我见过很多以色列士兵年轻男女
138	people who are 18, 19, 20 years old, who have had legitimately their limbs blown off going	18岁、19岁、20岁、被合法肢解的人
139	house to house in an area where they didn't have to.	在他们不必住的地方
140	The charge that Israel has been indiscriminate	以色列滥杀滥伤的指控
141	in its use of force in the Gaza Strip is an absurdity on its face.	在加沙地带使用武力是其表面的荒谬。
142	Israel has complete air	以色列有完整的空气
143	superiority over the Gaza Strip.	优于加沙地带。
144	If it wanted to level the place and turn it into a parking lot	如果它想把地方夷平变成停车场
145	October 8th, it certainly had the military capacity to do so.	10月8日,它肯定有军事能力这样做.
146	It has not done that.	它没有这样做。
147	Instead,	相反,
148	it has sacrificed legitimately a thousand of its own young men, particularly in these areas,	它合法地牺牲了一千名自己的年轻人,特别是在这些地区,
149	and thousands more who are wounded for the rest of their lives going house to house in an attempt	另有数以千计的伤员一辈子都想回家
150	to prevent all that, and is currently shipping in 4,400 calories per day per person into the	目前每人每天运送4,400卡路里进入
151	Gaza Strip, much of which is then stolen by Hamas.	加沙地带,其中大部分随后被哈马斯窃取.
152	So that is not to say that any war is perfect.	因此,这并不是说任何战争都是完美的。
153	This war has been conducted in about as meticulous way as any urban war in history.	这场战争的进行方式与历史上任何城市战争一样细致。
154	Just because war	只是因为战争
155	is ugly doesn't mean that it's being fought wrongly.	丑不意味着它被打错了
156	And I think that the main mistake that	我认为主要错误是
157	Israel has made is misunderstanding how public relations works in the sense that they couldn't	以色列制造了误解公共关系是如何运作的他们不能
158	have presented this war in a better, kinder way that people would have loved.	以人民本会爱的更好、更亲切的方式提出了这场战争。
159	What they could have	他们可能拥有的
160	done is move faster.	动作要快
161	And the reality is that the American way of doing war is to win as fast as	而现实是,美国战争的方式是以最快的速度获胜
162	possible.	也许吧
163	And we don't like long, drawn out occupations.	我们不喜欢长期,抽出的职业。
164	We don't like long, drawn out	我们不喜欢拖拖拉拉
165	military operations.	军事行动。
166	That's true in Iraq.	在伊拉克就是这样。
167	It's true in Afghanistan.	在阿富汗确实如此。
168	It's true in Ukraine.	乌克兰真如.
169	It's	这是
170	true in the Gaza Strip.	加沙地带的情况也是如此。
171	And so the kind of things that we Americans like to see are, for example,	因此,我们美国人喜欢看到的是,例如,
172	the operations against Hezbollah that took about three weeks to five weeks, or the operation	对真主党的行动用了大约三个星期至五个星期,或
173	against Iran, which took about 12 days.	对伊朗,这花了大约12天。
174	Those are operations that any ally of the United States can	美国任何盟友都可以采取这些行动。
175	sustain.	持续。
176	Long operations like the one that Israel has been performing in the Gaza Strip are inherently	像以色列在加沙地带所做的那样的长期行动本质上是
177	very, very difficult from PR level.	从公关层面来说非常困难
178	And I'm not sure, to be frank, that there is a way for Israel	坦白说,我不确定以色列有办法
179	to win the PR war in the middle of a very long war against an intransigent terrorist enemy	在对顽固的恐怖主义敌人的长期战争中赢得公关战争
180	that legitimately embeds itself in the most damaging places.	将自己安插在最有害的地方。
181	A claim I receive often,	我经常收到一个要求
182	and we're starting our campus tour tomorrow, is that Israel is committing genocide.	我们明天开始校园巡演是以色列犯下了种族灭绝罪行
183	How do you respond to that, Ben?	你怎么回应的,本?
184	There is literally no definition of genocide by which Israel is	以色列实际上没有灭绝种族的定义。
185	committing a genocide.	犯下灭绝种族罪
186	Typically, a genocide involves the targeted killing of the vast majority	种族灭绝通常涉及对绝大多数人的定点清除。
187	of the population, or at least an attempt to do so.	或至少试图这样做。
188	There has never been a genocide attempted in	从未发生过种族灭绝
189	history in which the food that was being shipped in was more than the daily caloric intake of the	运进的食品超过每日热量摄入量
190	average American into the areas where you're supposedly attempting to genocide the population.	普通美国人进入那些你试图灭绝民众的地区
191	The total population loss in the Gaza Strip thus far has been three percent.	迄今为止,加沙地带的总人口损失为3%。
192	During the Holocaust,	在大屠杀期间,
193	just to take a reference, it was 50 percent.	为了参考一下,是50%。
194	During Rwanda, it was significantly higher than	在卢旺达,这一数字明显高于
195	three percent.	百分之三钱
196	You don't issue leaflet warnings to people.	你不向人们发布传单警告。
197	You don't go house to house in a genocide	在一场种族灭绝中你不能回家住
198	in an attempt to reduce civilian casualties.	试图减少平民伤亡。
199	I understand that people use genocide at this	我理解人们使用种族灭绝在这里
200	point to just mean thing I don't like, and I get that.	意思只是我不喜欢的东西, 我明白了。
201	I understand nobody likes war.	我知道没有人喜欢战争
202	Nobody wants	没人愿意
203	war.	战争。
204	Certainly not the Israelis who are not at war on October 6th.	当然不是10月6日没有参战的以色列人。
205	The fact is that every Israeli	事实是每个以色列人
206	family has to send their 18-year-old son or daughter off to the military with the possibility	家人必须把他们18岁的儿子或女儿送进军队有可能
207	that they're going to get blown up in Gaza.	他们会在加沙被炸
208	That is not something that any Israeli wants right,	这不是任何以色列人想要的
209	left, or center.	左边或中间
210	The real question is whether the accusations are accurate.	真正的问题是指控是否准确。
211	They certainly are not,	他们必定不是,
212	by any stretch of the imagination.	任何想象力。
213	Ben Shapiro, author of Lions and Scavengers,	本・沙皮罗,狮子和拾荒者的作者,
214	we're going to get to that in a second.	我们马上就能搞定了
215	I have one or two other questions on Israel.	我还有一两个关于以色列的问题。
216	I think	我觉得
217	it's very important for our audience to hear this, though, because there is an incessant	我们的观众听到这个很重要因为有不断的
218	campaign.	竞选。
219	One thing a friend sent to me, interestingly, which is, okay, Charlie,	一个朋友寄给我的一件事有趣的是查理
220	we've pushed back against the media on COVID, on lockdowns, on Ukraine, on the border.	我们在COVID、封锁、乌克兰、边境上向媒体推后
221	Maybe we should also ask a question.	也许我们应该问个问题
222	Is the media totally presenting the truth when it comes to	媒体是否完全展现了真相?
223	Israel?	以色列吗?
224	Just a question, you know, that maybe we shouldn't believe everything the media says,	只是个问题也许我们不该相信媒体说的
225	because I know I've been conditioned to ask a lot more critical questions over the last couple of	因为我有条件问更多更关键的问题在过去的对夫妇
226	years.	岁月
227	So, Ben, some people would accuse Israel of wanting to ethnically cleanse.	因此,本,有些人会指责以色列想要种族清洗.
228	Τㄇ
229	the Israeli government are saying, again, it's all over the place, right?	以色列政府又说到处都是,对吧?
230	You have opinions all over.	你有意见
231	In your opinion, what would a good outcome five years from now be, and how does one respond to	在你看来五年后会有什么好结果如何应对
232	claims of ethnic cleansing?	声称种族清洗?
233	So ethnic cleansing, the idea, presumably, that population movement	所以,种族清洗,这个想法,大概,人口运动
234	is equivalent to ethnic cleansing.	相当于种族清洗。
235	I think ethnic cleansing is a term that's been fairly recently	我觉得种族清洗是最近才说的
236	coined to describe population movement during war.	用来描述战时的人口流动
237	And the reality is that's been ongoing for	现实是,这是一直以来
238	literally all of human history.	从字面上讲,所有人类的历史。
239	The idea that Israel is, quote unquote, forcing people out of	引文未引的以色列的想法是,迫使人们离开
240	the Gaza Strip, that is not the stated policy of the Israeli government.	这并非以色列政府公开宣布的政策。
241	The idea is if people want	想法是,如果人们想要
242	to leave, they can, but they're not being forced to leave.	他们可以离开,但他们不会被迫离开。
243	Again, moving people out of heavily	再说一次,把人从重地赶出去
244	urbanized areas that are honeycombed with terrorist booby traps pretty much everywhere is not	几乎无处不在被恐怖分子诱杀的圈套蜂蜜粘合的城市化地区
245	the same thing as, quote unquote, ethnic cleansing.	和《种族清洗》一样
246	And I think that ethnic cleansing is very often	我认为种族清洗经常发生
247	used as sort of a softer form of the genocide attack, the idea being that Israel is trying	作为较软的种族灭绝攻击形式,
248	to kill everyone, which, of course, is not true.	当然,这不是真的。
249	As far as your earlier question about what we	至于你之前问的我们
250	believe from the media, one of the things that I find kind of astonishing in some of the folks on	我从媒体上得知某件事让我觉得很惊讶
251	the right who are highly critical of Israel is actually the lack of skepticism when it comes	对以色列持高度批评态度的右派实际上是缺乏怀疑
252	to legacy media.	传承媒体。
253	Legacy media are radically anti-Israel overall.	传统媒体总体上根本反对以色列。
254	The New York Times can	纽约时报可以
255	certainly not be accused of being a pro-Israel outlet.	当然不会被指责是亲以色列的出路。
256	It would be very difficult to make the	很难做到
257	accusation that the Associated Press, which has worked hand in glove with Khamas for years,	指控美联社多年来与卡马斯合作
258	or Reuters, that these are wildly pro-Israel outlets.	路透社或路透社说,这些是疯狂的亲以色列媒体。
259	And yet when it comes to the reporting,	然而,在报道方面,
260	it seems to be sort of the opposite.	这似乎正好相反。
261	So the perception of the legacy media is like owned	所以对传统媒体的看法就像拥有
262	by the Jews.	以犹太人盟誓,
263	I was going to say, Ben, come on.	我想说,本,来吧。
264	You Jews own the media, Ben.	你们犹太人拥有媒体本
265	So I mean, come on.	所以,我的意思是,来吧。
266	As you can tell by all the wonderful headlines you guys get.	正如你们从头条新闻上看到的
267	Well, I mean, dude, the accusation that we own the media has not prevented, you know,	嗯,我的意思是,伙计, 我们拥有媒体的指控并没有阻止,你知道,
268	the Daily Wire from employing people who radically disagree with me on all of these matters.	《每日电讯报》从雇用那些在所有这些问题上与我意见不一的人开始
269	I mean,	我是说...
270	I don't agree with Matt Walsh on foreign policy.	我不同意马特・沃尔什的外交政策
271	Matt obviously is a major host over at Daily	Matt显然是《每日日报》的主要主持人
272	Wire.	线网.
273	And that's just my shop.	那只是我的店铺
274	And I'm overtly pro-Israel.	我显然支持以色列。
275	I mean, I'm not making any bones	我的意思是,我没有做任何骨头
276	about this.	关于这个。
277	I'm a Jew and I'm a Zionist.	我是犹太人,我是犹太复国主义者。
278	I'm not going to pretend that to say otherwise would be	我不会假装说否则就是
279	absolutely silly to suggest that that a some sort of atheistic Jewish person by birth who does not	完全愚蠢地暗示某类无神论的犹太人出生,谁不
280	care about Judaism or Israel owning the New York Times means the New York Times is pro-Israel is to	关心犹太教或以色列拥有纽约时报意味着纽约时报支持以色列
281	ignore literally every bit of coverage they have ever done for my entire lifetime.	忽略他们一生中所做的一切报道
282	We're running	我们跑了
283	out of time here.	没时间了
284	But just last question on this, Ben, I know this might be a tougher question,	但最后一个问题,本我知道这可能是一个更棘手的问题,
285	but Bibi said, quote, I didn't likely said this.	但是Bibi说引用一下我不可能这么说
286	I'll be honest.	我会说实话的
287	You can't be MAGA if you're anti	如果你反对,你不可能是MAGA
288	Israel.	叙利亚。
289	I don't like it for a couple of reasons.	不乐因缘二种故.
290	How did you how did you analyze that statement	你怎么分析那份声明的
291	from Bibi?	从比比?
292	I mean, I think that there is the ungenerous way of interpreting that and then	我的意思是,我认为有不合情理的方式解释,然后
293	the generous way of interpreting that.	以慷慨的方式解释
294	So the ungenerous way is to suggest that you have to	因此,不明智的方式是暗示你必须
295	hold a particular position on every Israeli governmental activity in order to in order to be	在以色列政府的每一项活动中都持有特殊的立场,以便
296	MAGA, which, of course, is not true.	MAGA,当然,这不是真的。
297	I mean, you can disagree from the right or from the left with	我的意思是,你可以不同意从左右与
298	Bibi's policies and you can still be plenty MAGA.	比比的政策,你还可以成为很多的MAGA.
299	I think the idea that Bibi is putting out there	我觉得Bibi的想法是
300	is that if you are taking Hamas's side against Israel in a conflict, it is very difficult to	如果你在冲突中站在哈马斯一边反对以色列,那就很难
301	align that with the with the stated positions of the Trump administration or what President	与特朗普政府的立场一致,
302	Trump himself is doing right now.	特朗普自己现在在做
303	You cannot look I think you can have disagreements on Israel	你不能看,我想你可以对以色列有分歧
304	and still be MAGA.	并且仍然是MAGA。
305	Obviously, you should be America first.	显然,你应该先是美国。
306	But if you're pro Hamas,	但如果你亲哈马斯
307	you're something darker and we shouldn't put up with that.	你是更黑暗的东西我们不应该忍受。
308	Ben, tell us about your important	Ben 告诉我们你的重要
309	new book.	新书。
310	So the basic idea in lines and scavengers is that inside every human heart,	因此,线条和拾荒者的基本想法是, 在每个人的心脏,
311	and this goes back to the book of Genesis, that there really is the the dutiful part of you that	这又回到了创世纪的书里, 真正的是可爱的部分你
312	wants to engage in what God made for you, this incredible rationalistic world in which you can	想要参与上帝为你创造的这个令人难以置信的理性世界
313	mostly understand what's going on and you have a duty to do the moral thing.	大部分都明白发生了什么你有责任做道德的事
314	You get up every	你们都起来
315	morning, you try to build something, you try to be innovative and risk taking, you try to defend	早上,你尝试做一些事情, 你尝试创新和冒险, 你试图捍卫
316	your civilization, you try to build the social fabric.	你的文明,你试图建立社会结构。
317	And then there is the part of us that's	然后,我们的一部分
318	driven by envy.	被嫉妒所驱使
319	And that part of us just looks at our problems and immediately attributes it to some	而我们这部分人只是看我们的问题,并立即把它归属于一些
320	shadowy force outside of our control and tries to rip down the very systems that actually provide	暗影的力量超出我们的控制并试图撕毁真正的系统提供
321	prosperity, tries to rip down the lions out of pure envy.	因为纯粹的羡慕想要撕下狮子
322	在这里,想想Zoran Mamdani。
323	That exists in all of us, but it exists civilizationally as well.	这在我们所有人中都存在,但它也存在于文明中。
324	And when you look	当你看到
325	at the sort of activities that were taking place on college campus last year and you see the weird	那种去年在大学校园里的活动你看到怪怪的
326	agglomeration of causes that all come together under varying banners.	所有原因的集合都在不同旗帜下
327	Sometimes it's hating	有时候它很讨厌
328	President Trump over immigration.	川普总统关于移民.
329	Sometimes it's on Israel.	有时于以色列.
330	Sometimes it's on LGBT.	有时也登在LGBT上.
331	But it's the	但这是
332	same exact people all marching together.	同一个人一起游行
333	And you wonder to yourself, what do these people have in	你想知道这些人在什么方面
334	common?	常见?
335	And the answer is pretty much nothing except they really, really don't like our	答案是几乎没有什么除了他们真的,真的不喜欢我们
336	civilization and see the fundamental basis of our civilization as evil and wrong and believe that	认为我们文明的根本基础是邪恶和错误的
337	it needs to be torn out by the root.	它需要被根拔出来。
338	This is to take the most obvious example, queers for Palestine.	这是以巴勒斯坦同性恋为最明显的例子。
339	Everyone's been puzzling over what the hell is that, right?	大家都在纠缠那是什么鬼东西,对吧?
340	Queers in Palestine get thrown off	在巴勒斯坦的排队者被丢弃
341	buildings.	建筑物。
342	So what is the answer is that the radical LGBTQ group doesn't have much in common	所以,答案是激进的LGBTQ团体没有什么共同点
343	with the pro-Khamas group, except that both really, really hate the West and believe that	和亲卡马斯的团体, 除了这两个真正, 真的很讨厌西方,相信
344	traditional values of our civilization need to be destroyed in order that they can live more	需要摧毁我们文明的传统价值,以便他们能够生活得更加美好。
345	fulfilling lives in some way.	以某种方式满足生活。
346	What would you say is the missing component for those of us in the	你会说什么是缺失的组件对于我们的人在
347	West to stand up against these forces?	西来对抗这些势力?
348	What would you say we're doing well and that we need to do	你会说什么我们做的很好我们需要做
349	more of?	更多吗?
350	I mean, I think that what we lack and I think we're starting to see a restoration of it	我的意思是,我认为我们缺少什么我认为我们开始看到修复它
351	is the courage to actually stand up on our hind legs and say, no, I think that good people tend	勇敢地站在我们的后腿上说,不,我认为好人倾向于
352	to be introspective.	成为内向。
353	We tend to think, okay, what did I do wrong?	我们总是在想我做错了什么?
354	How do I fix that?	我该怎么解决?
355	We tend to	我们倾向于
356	apologize when we do something wrong.	我们做错事时道歉
357	Bad people tend to take an apology and then grind your face	坏人往往接受道歉,然后磨你的脸
358	into the dust over it because they're not engaged in guilt cultures.	因为他们没有犯罪文化
359	They're engaged in what are	他们参与什么
360	called shame cultures, where the most important thing is not to be made to feel shame and it is	"羞耻文化",其中最重要的事情不是让感到羞耻,它是
361	to shame others.	羞辱别人
362	And so I think that we, those of us who consider ourselves part of Western	所以我认为,我们,我们当中认为自己是西方的一部分
363	civilization, we need to recognize that a constant self-abnegation, a constant attempt to tear	我们需要认识到不断的自我排斥不断的试图撕裂
364	ourselves down out of a misguided sense of humility in the face of people who are happy to	面对那些乐于
365	just destroy our civilization from without and within, that is a gigantic mistake.	仅仅从我们文明的外部和内部摧毁我们文明,这是一个巨大的错误。
366	And it is	这是
367	totally fine to say to people who wish to destroy our civilization, no, your values suck and they	对想要摧毁我们文明的人说句好话不,你的价值观烂透了
368	don't belong here.	不属于这里
369	Where does all this resentment come from?	这些怨恨从何而来?
370	It comes from a wide variety of places,	它来自各种各样的地方,
371	but it tends to come in general from a feeling of frustration and enervation.	但它往往总的来自于一种挫折感和内疚感。
372	And so I think that	所以我觉得
373	you can get that from people who believe they have been marginalized.	你可以从那些相信自己被边缘化的人那里得到这些。
374	You can get that from people	你可以从别人那里得到
375	who believe they deserve more.	他们相信自己应该得到更多。
376	You see it a lot actually with university students who seem to	大学学生看来也有很多
377	believe that they deserve a $250,000 salary for a gender studies degree because they've been taught	相信她们应该得到25万元的性别研究学位,因为他们受过教育
378	that they ought to be getting more and then they don't get it.	他们应该得到更多的,然后他们不明白。
379	And then they're angry at their	然后他们很生气
380	parents for not having put them in a position to do that.	父母不让他们这样做。
381	And so they rebel against everything	所以他们反抗一切
382	that they've been taught and everything they haven't been taught.	他们已经学会了,他们还没有学会的一切。
383	I also think it comes from	我也觉得它来自
384	a board population.	a 董事会人口。
385	Very often you have people who grew up without any sense of external threat and	经常有人在成长没有任何外来威胁感
386	they think that pretty much everything that's good in life is the baseline, that that's just normal.	他们认为生命中所有好的都是基线, 那只是正常的。
387	And that you can tear away everything without the baseline falling away.	并且你可以撕开所有的东西而不掉基线。
388	That, of course,	当然
389	is just false.	只是虚假的。
390	Some of it comes from ignorance.	有些来源于无知.
391	Some of it comes from envy.	有的来自羡慕.
392	The reality is that	现实是
393	gratitude as a characteristic of human beings has to be cultivated.	感谢是人类的一个特征,必须加以培养。
394	It's something you have	这是你拥有的东西
395	to teach your kids gratitude.	教孩子们感恩
396	Envy is totally natural.	Envy是完全自然的。
397	Envy is easy to do.	Envy是容易做的。
398	You see it with	你看见了吗?
399	small children.	孩子们。
400	I have four.	我有四个
401	And it's very easy to see kids envy each other and get on each other's	很容易看到孩子们互相羡慕互相追逐
402	case.	案例。
403	Being grateful for what they have is a very difficult thing.	感谢他们所拥有的东西是一件非常困难的事。
404	You have to teach your kids to	你得教孩子们
405	say thank you.	说谢谢
406	You don't have to teach your kids to say no.	你不用教孩子说不
407	Ben, thank you for your time and thanks	本,谢谢你抽空来,谢谢
408	for going through all the questions on the very important topics today.	讨论今天所有非常重要的议题
409	Lines and Scavengers is	线和拾荒者
410	the book.	书。
411	Thanks so much, Ben.	非常感谢,本。
412	Thanks, Charlie.	谢谢,查理

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