实战练英文 | 偏见女主持人,戴有色眼镜专访马斯克:Tesl

实战练英文 | 偏见女主持人,戴有色眼镜专访马斯克:Tesla一蹶不振?南非让StarLink规避黑人特权法律?DOGE停止援助造成百万病患死亡? | 卡塔尔经
发布于 2026-01-11 · 时长 41:57字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | So Bloomberg broke news today that the South African government is working around the rules | 彭博社今天传出消息 南非政府围绕规则行事 |
| 0:05 | on black ownership in order to allow Stirlingkin, and that is being done on the eve of the visit | 黑人所有权问题,以便允许Stirlingkin, 这项工作在访问前夕进行 |
| 0:10 | that President Ramaphosa is going to make to the White House. | 拉马福萨总统会去白宫 |
| 0:14 | Do you recognize that as a conflict of interest? | 你承认这是利益冲突吗? |
| 0:17 | No, of course not. | 不,当然不是。 |
| 0:19 | First of all, you should be questioning why are there racist laws in South Africa? | 首先,你应该质疑为什么南非有种族主义法律? |
| 0:22 | That's the first problem. | 这是第一个问题。 |
| 0:24 | That's what you should be attacking. | 这就是你应该攻击。 |
| 0:26 | It's improper for there to be racist laws in South Africa. | 南非有种族主义法律是不恰当的. |
| 0:29 | The whole idea with what Nelson Mandela, who was a great man, proposed was that all races | 整个想法是纳尔逊·曼德拉, 他是一个伟大的人, |
展开字幕全文(790 条)
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | So Bloomberg broke news today that the South African government is working around the rules | 彭博社今天传出消息 南非政府围绕规则行事 |
| 2 | on black ownership in order to allow Stirlingkin, and that is being done on the eve of the visit | 黑人所有权问题,以便允许Stirlingkin, 这项工作在访问前夕进行 |
| 3 | that President Ramaphosa is going to make to the White House. | 拉马福萨总统会去白宫 |
| 4 | Do you recognize that as a conflict of interest? | 你承认这是利益冲突吗? |
| 5 | No, of course not. | 不,当然不是。 |
| 6 | First of all, you should be questioning why are there racist laws in South Africa? | 首先,你应该质疑为什么南非有种族主义法律? |
| 7 | That's the first problem. | 这是第一个问题。 |
| 8 | That's what you should be attacking. | 这就是你应该攻击。 |
| 9 | It's improper for there to be racist laws in South Africa. | 南非有种族主义法律是不恰当的. |
| 10 | The whole idea with what Nelson Mandela, who was a great man, proposed was that all races | 整个想法是纳尔逊·曼德拉, 他是一个伟大的人, |
| 11 | should be on an equal footing in South Africa. | 在南非应处于平等地位。 |
| 12 | That's the right thing to do, not to replace one set of racist laws with another set of | 这是正确的做法,而不是用另一套种族主义法律取代另一套 |
| 13 | racist laws, which is utterly wrong and improper. | 种族主义法律,这是完全错误和不适当的。 |
| 14 | So that's the deal, that all races should be treated equally and there should be no | 因此,这是交易, 所有种族应该受到平等对待, 没有 |
| 15 | preference given to one or the other, whereas there are now 140 laws in South Africa that | 给予一种或另一种偏好,而目前南非有140项法律 |
| 16 | basically give strong preference if you're a black South African, and not otherwise. | 基本上,如果你是一个黑人南非人, 而不是其他。 |
| 17 | And so now I'm in the sort of situation where I was born in South Africa but cannot get | 所以现在我的处境是,我出生在南非,但不能得到 |
| 18 | a license to operate in Stirling because I'm not black. | 在Stirling有营业执照 因为我不是黑人 |
| 19 | Does that seem right to you? | 你觉得这样对吗? |
| 20 | It looks like that's about to change. | 看起来要变了 |
| 21 | I just asked you a question. | 我只是问你一个问题 |
| 22 | Please answer. | 请回答。 |
| 23 | Does that seem right to you? | 你觉得这样对吗? |
| 24 | Well those rules were designed to bring about an era of more economic equality in South | 这些规则是为了在南方建立一个经济更加平等的时代 |
| 25 | Africa, and it looks like the government has found a way around those rules for you. | 非洲,看起来政府 已经为您找到了绕过那些规则的方法。 |
| 26 | I asked you a question. | 我问你一个问题。 |
| 27 | This is your interview, everyone wants to hear from you. | 这是你的采访,每个人都想听到你的声音。 |
| 28 | I asked you a question, yes or no? | 我问你一个问题,是还是不是? |
| 29 | Racist laws, yes or no? | 种族主义法,是还是不是? |
| 30 | Not for me to answer. | 不为我答. |
| 31 | I have got a question for you about your government work and the amount of savings. | 我有一个问题要问你 关于你的政府工作 和储蓄的数额。 |
| 32 | Why do you like racist laws? | 你为什么喜欢种族主义法律? |
| 33 | 欢迎来到论坛 Elon Musk 与彭博会的Michel Hussein谈话 | |
| 34 | Hello everyone, and Elon Musk, welcome to Qatar Economic Forum, how are you? | 大家好,埃隆·穆斯克 欢迎来到卡塔尔经济论坛,你好吗? |
| 35 | Thank you for having me, I'm fine, how are you? | 谢谢你邀请我 我很好 你好吗? |
| 36 | Very well thank you, and very pleased to have you with us. | 非常谢谢你,很高兴你和我们在一起。 |
| 37 | You know, among those here in the audience in Doha are some you will know, people who | 你知道,在多哈的观众中 有一些你会知道的, 一些人谁 |
| 38 | have backed you financially over the years. | 多年来一直资助你 |
| 39 | Since you last spoke here in 2022, a lot has changed in your life. | 自从你上次在2022年发言以来 你的生活发生了很多变化 |
| 40 | You're not only running multiple companies, you were doing that then, but now you also | 你不仅在经营多个公司,你当时也这么做, 现在你也这样做了 |
| 41 | have a role in government. | 在政府中发挥作用。 |
| 42 | So first of all, I hope you won't mind if from time to time I have to move you from | 所以,首先,我希望你不会介意 如果我不时不得不移动你从 |
| 43 | one topic to another because we have a lot to cover in the time we have. | 一个话题又一个话题 因为我们有很多事情要处理 |
| 44 | That will be all right? | 可以吗? |
| 45 | Yes of course. | 当然 |
| 46 | Well let's start then with exactly the fact that you now have this combination of being | 那么,让我们开始 确切的事实, 你现在有这个结合 成为 |
| 47 | a CEO and having a role as a government advisor. | 首席执行官,并担任政府顾问。 |
| 48 | Tell me about your week, how does it work, what's the split of your time? | 说说你的周,如何工作,你的时间是多少? |
| 49 | Well I travel a lot, so I was in Silicon Valley yesterday morning, I was in L.A. yesterday | 我经常旅行 所以我昨天早上在硅谷 昨天在洛杉矶 |
| 50 | evening, I'm in Austin right now, I'll be in D.C. tomorrow, I'll be there, I have to | 晚上,我现在在奥斯汀, 我明天会在华盛顿, 我会在那里,我必须 |
| 51 | have a dinner with the President tomorrow night I believe, and then a whole bunch of | 明晚和总统一起吃晚饭 我相信 然后一大堆 |
| 52 | cabinet secretary meetings and then back to Silicon Valley on Thursday night. | 内阁秘书开会,然后星期四晚上回到硅谷. |
| 53 | But I mean the balance of your time, is it, well clearly it's a lot, but is it still the | 但是,我的意思是,平衡 你的时间,是,很明显,这是很多, |
| 54 | case as you said a while ago that it's about one to two days a week on your government | 正如你刚才所说 你政府一周要花一到两天时间 |
| 55 | work? | 工作吗? |
| 56 | Yeah, that's correct. | 没错 |
| 57 | And what does that mean for your corporate life? | 那对你的公司生活意味着什么? |
| 58 | Because if we start with Tesla, the company has suffered in recent months what you've | 因为如果我们从特斯拉开始 公司最近几个月来一直遭受着你的痛苦 |
| 59 | called blowback. | 叫做"反击" |
| 60 | So what is your plan for turning that around, the declining sales picture, and by what stage | 那么,你有什么计划 扭转这种情况, 下降的销售画面, 在哪个阶段 |
| 61 | do you think you're going to be able to turn it around? | 你觉得你能扭转它吗? |
| 62 | Oh it's already turned around. | 哦,它已经转身了。 |
| 63 | Give me some evidence for that, I've just been looking at the sales figures for Europe | 给我一些证据,我一直在看 欧洲的销售数字 |
| 64 | in April, which show very significant declines in the big markets. | 4月,表明大市场大幅下跌。 |
| 65 | Europe is our weakest market, we're strong everywhere else, so our sales are doing well | 欧洲是我们最弱的市场,我们到处都很强壮,所以我们的销售情况很好 |
| 66 | at this point. | 此时此刻 |
| 67 | We don't anticipate any meaningful sales shortfall and obviously the stock market recognises | 我们没有预料到任何有意义的销售短缺 显然股市承认 |
| 68 | that since we're now back over a trillion dollars in market cap, so clearly the market | 既然现在我们重回了 超过一万亿美元 的市场上限, 所以很明显的市场 |
| 69 | is aware of the situation, so it's already turned around. | 已经知道情况了 所以它已经转身了 |
| 70 | But sales still down compared to this time last year? | 但与去年这个时候相比,销量仍然下降? |
| 71 | In Europe. | 在欧洲。 |
| 72 | In Europe, okay. | 在欧洲,好吧。 |
| 73 | Yes, but that's true of all manufacturers, there's no exceptions. | 是的,但所有制造商都是这样,没有例外. |
| 74 | Does that mean that you're not going to be able to... | 这是否意味着你不能... |
| 75 | Does that mean... | 这是否意味着... |
| 76 | The European market is quite weak. | 欧洲市场相当薄弱。 |
| 77 | But you would acknowledge, wouldn't you, that what you are facing, okay let's just take | 但你会承认,是不是, 你面对的,好吧,让我们只是拿 |
| 78 | it as Europe, what you are facing is a significant problem. | 作为欧洲,你所面临的是一个重大问题。 |
| 79 | Tesla was an incredibly aspirational brand, people identified with it, they saw it being | 特斯拉是一个令人难以置信的愿望品牌, 人们认同它,他们看到它是 |
| 80 | at the forefront of the climate crisis and now people are driving around with stickers | 在气候危机的前沿 现在人们正用贴纸开车 |
| 81 | in their cars saying, I bought this before we knew Elon was crazy. | 在他们车上说,我买这个 之前,我们知道伊隆是疯了。 |
| 82 | And there are also people who are buying it because Elon's crazy or however they may view | 也有人买它 因为伊隆疯了 或者他们可能看到 |
| 83 | it. | 这个 |
| 84 | So yes, we've lost some sales perhaps on the left, but we've gained them on the right. | 是的,我们失去了一些销售 也许在左边, 但我们得到了它们 在右边。 |
| 85 | The sales numbers at this point are strong and we see no problem with demand. | 此时的销售数字很强,我们认为需求没有问题. |
| 86 | So what do you... | 那你们... |
| 87 | I mean, you can just look at the stock price. | 我是说,你可以看看股票价格 |
| 88 | If you want the best insider information, the stock market analysts have that. | 如果你想要最好的内幕信息, 股票市场分析师有这一点。 |
| 89 | And our stock wouldn't be trading near all-time highs if things weren't in good shape. | 如果情况不妙 我们的股票不会在最高水平上交易 |
| 90 | They're fine. | 他们没事 |
| 91 | Don't worry about it. | 别着急 |
| 92 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 93 | I was citing sales figures rather than share price. | 我引用的是销售数字而不是股票价格。 |
| 94 | Well, tell me then how committed you are to Tesla. | 告诉我你对特斯拉有多忠心 |
| 95 | Do you see yourself and are you committed to still being the chief executive of Tesla | 你看见自己了吗? 你承诺继续做特斯拉的首席执行官 |
| 96 | in five years' time? | 五年后吗? |
| 97 | Yes. | 对 |
| 98 | No doubt about that at all? | 毫无疑问吗? |
| 99 | Well, no, I might die. | 不,我可能会死 |
| 100 | Okay, short of that. | 好吧,简言之。 |
| 101 | Let me see if I'm dead. | 让我看看我是否死了。 |
| 102 | So there's a slight amount of time. | 故有少时. |
| 103 | Does that mean that the value of your pay doesn't have any bearing on your decision? | 这是否意味着你的工资价值与你的决定无关? |
| 104 | Well, that's not really a subject of discussion in this forum. | 这不是这个论坛讨论的主题 |
| 105 | I think, obviously, there should be a compensation for if something incredible is done, the compensation | 我认为,很明显,应该有补偿 如果做一些不可思议的事情, 补偿 |
| 106 | should match that something incredible was done. | 应该和不可思议的事一样 |
| 107 | But I'm confident that whatever some activist posing as a judge in Delaware happens to do | 但我相信,无论什么活动家 在特拉华州假扮法官 都碰巧这样做 |
| 108 | will not affect the future compensation. | 将不影响未来的赔偿。 |
| 109 | This is the judge who twice struck down the $56 billion dollar pay package that was awarded | 这名法官两次击落了 560亿美元工资计划 |
| 110 | to you. | 给你的。 |
| 111 | I think the value on the basis on the current value of stock options. | 我认为价值基于股票期权的现值。 |
| 112 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 113 | Not a judge. | 没有法官 |
| 114 | The activist who is cosplaying a judge in a Halloween costume. | 那个穿万圣节服装 饰演法官的活跃分子 |
| 115 | Okay, that's your characterization. | 好吧,这就是你的特征。 |
| 116 | I think the value on the current value of stock options, I think the actual justice | 我觉得股票期权的现值是 实际的公理 |
| 117 | according to the law on the current value of stock options. | 根据关于股票期权现值的法律。 |
| 118 | I think the value of that pay package stands at about a hundred billion dollars. | 我认为那套报酬的价值 大约是1000亿美元。 |
| 119 | Are you saying you are relaxed about the value of your future pay package? | 你是说你对未来的薪酬计划的价值很放松? |
| 120 | Your decision to be committed to Tesla for the next five years, as long as you are still | 你决定在未来5年里 一直和特斯拉在一起 |
| 121 | with us on this planet, is completely independent of pay? | 与我们在这个星球上, 完全没有报酬? |
| 122 | No. | 没有 |
| 123 | It's not independent. | 不独立. |
| 124 | So pay is a relevant factor then to your commitment to Tesla? | 那么报酬是你们对特斯拉的承诺的一个相关因素? |
| 125 | A sufficient voting control such that I cannot be ousted by activist investors is what matters | 足够多的投票控制 以至于我无法被积极投资者赶走 |
| 126 | to me. | 对我来说。 |
| 127 | And I've said this publicly many times. | 我已经公开说过很多次了 |
| 128 | But let's not have this whole thing be a discussion of my alleged pay. | 但我们不要讨论我所谓的薪水 |
| 129 | It's not a money thing. | 这不是钱的事情。 |
| 130 | It's a reasonable control thing over the future of the company, especially for building millions, | 这是对公司未来的合理控制 尤其是对于建设数百万人来说 |
| 131 | potentially billions of humanoid robots. | 可能是数十亿个人造机器人 |
| 132 | I can't be sitting there and wondering to get tossed out for political reasons by activists. | 我不能坐在那里,想着被激进分子出于政治原因扔出去。 |
| 133 | That would be unacceptable. | 这是不能接受的。 |
| 134 | That's all that matters. | 这就是最重要的。 |
| 135 | Now, let's move on. | 现在,让我们继续前进。 |
| 136 | OK. | 摆 |
| 137 | Well, just one question before we move on to other companies, which is that I wonder | 在进入其他公司之前,只有一个问题,我想 |
| 138 | if some of what has happened to Tesla in the last few months, did you take it personally? | 如果Tesla在过去几个月里发生了一些事情, 你是否亲自处理? |
| 139 | Yes. | 对 |
| 140 | And did it make you regret any of or think twice about your political endeavours? | 让你后悔或三思你的政治努力吗? |
| 141 | Because it is... | 因为... |
| 142 | I did what needed to be done. | 我做了该做的事 |
| 143 | The violent antibody reaction, and I'm not someone who's ever committed violence. | 强烈的抗体反应,我也不是曾经有过暴力的人. |
| 144 | And yet, massive violence was committed against my companies. | 然而,针对我公司的大规模暴力。 |
| 145 | Massive violence was threatened against me. | 大规模暴力威胁着我。 |
| 146 | Who are these people? | 这些人是谁? |
| 147 | Why would they do that? | 他们为什么要这么做? |
| 148 | How wrong can they be? | 他们怎么会错? |
| 149 | They're on the wrong side of history, and that's an evil thing to do. | 他们站在历史错误的一面,这是邪恶的行为. |
| 150 | To go and damage some innocent person's car, to threaten to kill me. | 去破坏一些无辜的人的车 威胁要杀了我 |
| 151 | What's wrong with these people? | 这些人怎么了? |
| 152 | I've not harmed anyone. | 我没有伤害任何人。 |
| 153 | So something needs to be done about them. | 所以需要对他们做点什么。 |
| 154 | And a number of them are going to prison, and they deserve it. | 他们中有些人会进监狱,他们是罪有应得。 |
| 155 | Any more will. | 任何更多的意志。 |
| 156 | You're referring to the attacks on Tesla showrooms, but I think... | 你是指对特斯拉展示室的袭击 但我想... |
| 157 | Well, it's showrooms and burning down cars is unacceptable. | 嗯,这是展示室 和烧毁汽车是不可接受的。 |
| 158 | Those people will go to prison, and the people that funded them and organised them | 那些人会被关进监狱 和资助他们的人组织他们 |
| 159 | will also go to prison. | 也会进监狱 |
| 160 | Don't worry, we're coming for you. | 别担心,我们来找你了 |
| 161 | Wouldn't you acknowledge that some of the people who turned against Tesla in Europe | 难道你不会承认 一些人 谁转身反对 特斯拉在欧洲 |
| 162 | were upset at your politics, and very few of them would have been violent in any way? | 对你的政治不高兴 很少有人会有任何暴力倾向? |
| 163 | They just objected to what they saw you say or do politically? | 他们只是反对你说的话 还是从政治上说? |
| 164 | Well, it's certainly fine to object to political things, but it's not fine to resort to violence | 好吧,反对政治当然是好的 但诉诸暴力是不好的 |
| 165 | and hanging someone in effigy and death threats. | 并绞死某人 在精致和死亡威胁。 |
| 166 | That's obviously not OK. | 这显然不是很好。 |
| 167 | You know, that's absurd. | 你知道,这是荒谬的。 |
| 168 | That is in no way justifiable at all, in any way, shape or form. | 这在任何方面、形式或形式上都是毫无道理的。 |
| 169 | And some of the legacy media nonetheless have sought to justify it, | 但有些传承媒体却试图为其辩护, |
| 170 | which is unconscionable. | 这是不合理的。 |
| 171 | Shame on them. | 惭愧其人. |
| 172 | Let's talk about your other companies then and other business areas, SpaceX. | 让我们谈谈你的其他公司 以及其他商业领域,SpaceX。 |
| 173 | I saw that you said in a speech at the West Point Military Academy recently | 我看见你在西点军校的演讲中说 |
| 174 | that the future of warfare is AI and drones. | 战争的未来是AI和无人机 |
| 175 | And obviously, defence is an increasingly booming sector | 很明显,国防是一个越来越繁荣的部门 |
| 176 | with the state of the world at the moment. | 与目前世界状况. |
| 177 | Do you see SpaceX moving into weaponised drones? | 你看到SpaceX进入武器化无人机了吗? |
| 178 | You certainly ask interesting questions that are impossible to answer. | 你确实问了一些无法回答的有趣问题。 |
| 179 | So, SpaceX is the space launch leader. | 因此,SpaceX是太空发射的领导者. |
| 180 | So, SpaceX doesn't do drones. | 因此,SpaceX不做无人机. |
| 181 | SpaceX builds rockets, satellites and internet terminals. | SpaceX建造火箭,卫星和互联网终端. |
| 182 | So, SpaceX has a very dominant position in space launch. | 因此,SpaceX在太空发射中占有非常主导的地位. |
| 183 | So, of the mass launch to orbit this year, SpaceX will probably do 90 per cent. | 因此,在今年向轨道的大规模发射中,SpaceX很可能会完成90%. |
| 184 | China will do half of the remaining amount, so 5 per cent. | 中国将完成剩余数额的一半,即5%。 |
| 185 | And the rest of the world, including the rest of the US, will do about 5 per cent. | 而世界其他地区,包括美国其他地区,将做5%左右的工作. |
| 186 | So, SpaceX will do about 10 times as much as the rest of the world combined | 所以,SpaceX将做 大约十倍于世界其他地方加起来 |
| 187 | or 20 times as much as China, which is... | 或二十倍于中国,即. |
| 188 | And China is doing actually a very impressive job. | 而中国实际上正在做一个非常令人印象深刻的工作。 |
| 189 | The reason for this is that we are putting into orbit | 原因是我们正准备进入轨道 |
| 190 | the largest satellite constellation the world has ever seen by far. | 有史以来最大的卫星星座 |
| 191 | So, I think at this point, about maybe approaching 80 per cent of all active satellites | 因此,我认为,在这个时候, 可能接近80% 所有运行中的卫星 |
| 192 | 在轨道上是SpaceX。 | |
| 193 | And they're providing high bandwidth global connectivity throughout the world. | 它们提供高带宽的全球连接 |
| 194 | In fact, this connection is on the SpaceX connection. | 事实上,这个连接在SpaceX连接上. |
| 195 | So, I think this is a very good thing because it means that we can provide low cost, | 所以,我认为这是一个非常好的事情,因为它意味着 我们可以提供低成本, |
| 196 | high bandwidth internet to parts of the world that don't have it | 高带宽的互联网到世界上没有它的地方 |
| 197 | or it's very expensive. | 或者很贵 |
| 198 | And I think the single biggest thing you can do to lift people out of poverty | 我认为你能够做的最大的一件事 就是帮助人们摆脱贫困 |
| 199 | and help them is giving them an internet connection. | 并帮助他们提供网络连接。 |
| 200 | Because once you have the internet connection, | 因为一旦你连上互联网 |
| 201 | you can learn anything for free on the internet. | 你可以在互联网上免费学习任何东西。 |
| 202 | And you can also sell your goods and services to the global market. | 你也可以向全球市场出售你的商品和服务。 |
| 203 | And once you have knowledge by the internet and the ability to engage in commerce, | 一旦你掌握了互联网上的知识 和从事商业的能力 |
| 204 | this is going to greatly improve quality of life for people throughout the world. | 这将大大提高全世界人民的生活质量。 |
| 205 | And it has. | 它已经。 |
| 206 | And I'd just like to thank anyone in the audience who may have been helpful | 我只想感谢观众中 任何有帮助的人 |
| 207 | with Starlink and getting it approved in their country. | 和Starlink一起在他们国家获得批准 |
| 208 | And I think it's doing a lot of good on the countries that have approved it, | 我认为这对批准它的国家有好处, |
| 209 | which is, I think, at this point, 130 countries are very happy with it. | 我认为,目前130个国家对此非常满意。 |
| 210 | I don't currently anticipate SpaceX getting into the weapons business. | 我目前不认为SpaceX会涉足武器行业 |
| 211 | That's certainly not an aspiration. | 这绝对不是愿望 |
| 212 | We're frequently asked to do weapons programs, but we have thus far declined. | 我们经常被要求做武器计划, 但我们到目前为止已经拒绝了。 |
| 213 | Do you envisage SpaceX or, indeed, Starlink as a separate entity | 您是否设想 SpaceX 或事实上,星际链接作为一个单独的实体 |
| 214 | publicly listing in the near future or at all? | 近期公开上市还是完全公开上市? |
| 215 | It's possible that Starlink may go public at some point in the future. | 未来某个时候Starlink可能会公开. |
| 216 | And what would be the time frame? | 时间框架是什么? |
| 217 | What kind of time frame you consider? | 你考虑什么时间范围? |
| 218 | I'm in no rush. | 我不着急。 |
| 219 | I'm in no rush to go public. | 我不急于公开 |
| 220 | Public is, I guess, a way to potentially make more money, | 公众是可能赚更多钱的一种方式 |
| 221 | but at the expense of a lot of public company overhead | 但牺牲了很多公共公司的管理费 |
| 222 | and inevitably a whole bunch of lawsuits, which are very annoying. | 并不可避免地一连串的诉讼, 非常烦人。 |
| 223 | So really, something needs to be done about the shareholder derivative lawsuits | 所以,真的,需要做一些事情 关于股东衍生诉讼 |
| 224 | in the US, because it allows plaintiff's law firms who don't represent | 在美国,因为它允许原告的律师事务所 不代表 |
| 225 | the shareholders to pretend that they represent the shareholders | 股东假装他们代表股东 |
| 226 | by getting a puppet plaintiff with a few shares | 通过获得一个傀儡原告 与几股股份 |
| 227 | to initiate a massive lawsuit against the company. | 对公司提起大规模诉讼 |
| 228 | And the irony being that, extreme irony, that even if the class they | 讽刺的是,极端的讽刺, 即使阶级,他们 |
| 229 | purport to represent were to vote that they don't want the lawsuit, | 声称代表投票 他们不希望诉讼, |
| 230 | the lawsuit would still continue. | 诉讼会继续下去 |
| 231 | So how can it be a class action representing a class | 怎么会是集体诉讼呢? |
| 232 | if the class vote against it? | 如果阶级投票反对呢? |
| 233 | And that's the bizarre situation we've got in the US. | 这就是我们在美国的奇怪情况。 |
| 234 | It's a dire need of reform. | 迫切需要改革. |
| 235 | As anyone who's run a public company has experienced this, | 任何经营公共公司的人都经历过这个 |
| 236 | it's an absurd situation that needs to change. | 这是一个荒谬的情况,需要改变。 |
| 237 | Well, do you think Donald Trump might change it? | 你觉得唐纳德·特朗普会改变吗 |
| 238 | You've certainly got his ear. | 你当然有他的耳朵。 |
| 239 | I imagine that you've put this to him. | 我想这是你给他的 |
| 240 | 你在Starlink IPO之前想改变吗? | |
| 241 | Well, it would need a law to be passed. | 这需要通过法律 |
| 242 | The trouble being that you'd need 60 Senate votes, | 麻烦是你需要60张参议院选票 |
| 243 | and the Democrats will vote against it. | 民主党人会投票反对 |
| 244 | The plaintiff's bar is, I believe, the second largest contributor | 我想原告的酒吧是第二大贡献者 |
| 245 | to the Democratic Party. | 给民主党的 |
| 246 | That's the issue. | 这就是问题所在。 |
| 247 | At the state level, this can be solved. | 在州一级,这一点是可以解决的. |
| 248 | And I should say, Texas recently passed a law which, at least | 得克萨斯州最近通过了一项法律 至少 |
| 249 | at the state level, made lawsuits much more reasonable, | 在州一级, 提出更合理的诉讼, |
| 250 | because you have to get at least one in 33 shareholders | 因为33个股东中至少要有一个 |
| 251 | to agree that they are part of a class of shareholders, 3%. | 同意他们属于一个股东类别,3%。 |
| 252 | This will really help with a frivolous lawsuit. | 这对轻率的诉讼很有帮助 |
| 253 | Let's talk about AI, which is in so many of your businesses | 让我们来谈谈AI,这是在这么多 在你的生意 |
| 254 | and in all our worlds in different ways. | 和我们所有的世界 不同的方式。 |
| 255 | It's one of the big changes, the development of generative AI, | 这是大变化之一, 基因AI的发展, |
| 256 | since you last spoke to this forum three years ago. | 自从你三年前在本论坛发言以来 |
| 257 | You're in this space, of course, with GroK, | 你在这个空间,当然,与GroK, |
| 258 | which almost everyone will know. | 几乎每个人都会知道 |
| 259 | You co-founded OpenAI and then left. | 你共同创建了OpenAI,然后离开了。 |
| 260 | And you've obviously got a legal battle | 你显然有一场法律斗争 |
| 261 | with OpenAI and Sam Altman. | 与OpenAI和萨姆·阿尔特曼. |
| 262 | I wonder if you could say something | 不知道你能不能说点什么 |
| 263 | about the status of that. | 关于现状。 |
| 264 | Because you were together in Saudi Arabia | 因为你们在沙特阿拉伯在一起 |
| 265 | with the president last week, with Sam Altman. | 上周和总统 和萨姆·阿尔特曼 |
| 266 | In the same place at the same time. | 同一时处. |
| 267 | I was with the president, and then in the neighborhood. | 我和总统在一起,然后在附近 |
| 268 | OK, so does that mean you are pushing ahead | 好吧,这是否意味着你正在向前推进 |
| 269 | 对OpenAI的诉讼? | |
| 270 | Yes. | 对 |
| 271 | So I came up with the name OpenAI as an open source | 所以我想出了OpenAI这个名字 作为开源 |
| 272 | and as a nonprofit. | 作为非营利组织。 |
| 273 | And I funded OpenAI for the first roughly $50 million. | 我为OpenAI 提供了5千万美元的资金 |
| 274 | And it was intended to be a nonprofit open source company. | 本来打算成为一家非营利的开源公司. |
| 275 | And now they're trying to change that | 现在,他们试图改变 |
| 276 | for their own financial benefit into a for-profit company | 给自己带来经济利益的营利性公司 |
| 277 | that is closed source. | 关闭源。 |
| 278 | So this would be like, let's say you funded a nonprofit | 所以这就像,让我们假设 你资助了一个非营利 |
| 279 | to help preserve the Amazon rainforest. | 帮助保护亚马逊雨林。 |
| 280 | But instead of doing that, they became a lumber company, | 但是,他们不是这样做,而是 成为一个木材公司, |
| 281 | dropped down the forest and sold the wood. | 掉下森林,卖掉木头 |
| 282 | You'd be like, wait a second, that's not what I funded. | 你会喜欢,等一下, 这不是我资助。 |
| 283 | 这是OpenAI。 | |
| 284 | They've made some changes to their corporate structure, | 他们改变了公司结构 |
| 285 | though, haven't they, since, | 但是,他们没有,因为, |
| 286 | in recognition of what you've said? | 以表彰你说的话? |
| 287 | No, that's just what they told the media. | 不,这就是他们告诉媒体的。 |
| 288 | OK. | 摆 |
| 289 | Part, they have partly walked back their plan | 部分,他们已经走回他们的计划 |
| 290 | to restructure the business. | 重组企业。 |
| 291 | I guess that's made no difference to how you feel about it. | 我想这跟你的感受没什么区别 |
| 292 | So you're determined to see them in court? | 所以你决心在法庭上见他们? |
| 293 | Of course. | 当然 |
| 294 | Well, that's certainly going to be one to watch. | 那当然是值得注意的 |
| 295 | I also wanted to ask you about AI and regulation, | 我还想问你关于AI和监管, |
| 296 | because when you were here last talking to John Mickelthwaite, | 因为你上次和约翰·米克尔斯韦特谈话时 |
| 297 | you had some pretty strong words about the risk that AI poses. | 你对人工智能带来的风险有很强的口吻 |
| 298 | And you said that you really felt what the US was missing | 你说你真正感受到了美国所缺少的 |
| 299 | was a federal AI regulator, | 曾经是联邦AI监管者, |
| 300 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}那东西的底线 | |
| 301 | of the Food and Drug Administration | 食品和药物管理局署长 |
| 302 | or the Federal Aviation Administration. | 或联邦航空管理局。 |
| 303 | Now, you're clearly now in a zone | 瞷瞷睲贰 |
| 304 | where you're more on the cutting regulation side | 在那里,你更多 在切割调节方面 |
| 305 | than wanting new regulators. | 比想要新的监管者。 |
| 306 | So has your view changed on the need for an AI regulator? | 那么,你的看法有没有改变 是否需要AI监管? |
| 307 | Well, it's not that I don't think there should be regulators. | 这不是说我不认为应该有监管者。 |
| 308 | You can think of regulators | 你可以想到监管者 |
| 309 | like referees on the field in sports. | 就像体育界的裁判 |
| 310 | There should be some number of referees, | 应该有一些裁判员, |
| 311 | but you shouldn't have so many referees | 但你不应该有这么多裁判 |
| 312 | that you can't kick the ball without hitting one. | 你踢球不能不击球。 |
| 313 | So in most fields in the US, | 所以在美国大多数地区 |
| 314 | the regulatory burden has grown over time | 监管负担随着时间推移而增加 |
| 315 | to the point where it's like having more referees | 更像有更多裁判 |
| 316 | than players on the field. | 比球员在球场。 |
| 317 | And this is a natural consequence | 这是自然的结果 |
| 318 | of an extended period of prosperity. | 将永居其中。 |
| 319 | It's very important to appreciate this. | 欣赏这一点是非常重要的. |
| 320 | This has happened throughout history. | 这在历史上一直发生。 |
| 321 | When you have an extended period of prosperity | 当你们获得长寿的时候, |
| 322 | with no existential war, | 没有生存战争, |
| 323 | there's no cleansing function | 没有清理功能 |
| 324 | for unnecessary laws and regulations. | 对于不必要的法律法规。 |
| 325 | So what happens is that every year, | 所以每年发生的事 |
| 326 | more laws and more regulations are passed | 通过了更多的法律和规章 |
| 327 | because legislators are gonna legislate, | 因为立法者会立法, |
| 328 | regulators are gonna regulate. | 监管者会监管的 |
| 329 | And you will get the steady pile | 你会得到稳定堆 |
| 330 | of more and more laws and regulations over time | 越来越多的法律法规 |
| 331 | until everything is illegal. | 直到一切非法为止 |
| 332 | And let me give you an example of a truly absurd situation. | 让我举一个例子来说明一个真正荒谬的情况。 |
| 333 | Under the Biden administration, | 在拜登执政时期, |
| 334 | SpaceX was sued for not hiring asylum seekers in the US. | SpaceX因没有在美国雇用寻求庇护者而被起诉。 |
| 335 | Now, the problem is it's actually illegal for SpaceX | 问题是SpaceX实际上是非法的 |
| 336 | under ITAR, International Traffic and Arms Regulations, | 《国际贩运和军火管制条例》 |
| 337 | to hire anyone who is not a permanent resident | 雇佣非永久居民的人 |
| 338 | of the United States because the premise being | 美国,因为其前提 |
| 339 | that they will take advanced rocket technology | 他们将采用先进的火箭技术 |
| 340 | and return to their home country | 返回祖国 |
| 341 | if they're not a permanent resident. | 如果他们不是永久居民的话 |
| 342 | So we're simultaneously in a situation | 所以,我们同时处于一种情况 |
| 343 | where it is illegal to hire asylum seekers | 雇用寻求庇护者是非法的; |
| 344 | and is also illegal to hire asylum seekers. | 并且雇用寻求庇护者也是非法的。 |
| 345 | And the Biden's Department of Justice | 还有拜登的司法部 |
| 346 | chose to prosecute us despite both paths being illegal. | 尽管这两条道路都是非法的,但还是选择起诉我们。 |
| 347 | Downed if you do, downed if you don't. | 如果你有的话,就被打倒,如果你没有。 |
| 348 | But my question was specifically about a regulator for AI, | 但我的问题是 关于AI的监管者, |
| 349 | which you said three years ago was needed | 三年前你说需要的 |
| 350 | and you said we need to be proactive | 而你说我们需要主动 |
| 351 | on the regulation of AI rather than reactive. | 有关大赦国际的规定,而不是被动的。 |
| 352 | Have you changed your mind on that? | 你改变主意了吗? |
| 353 | No, of course not. | 不,当然不是。 |
| 354 | What I'm saying is that there should be some referees | 我想说的是 应该有一些裁判 |
| 355 | on the field, a few referees, | 几位裁判, |
| 356 | but you shouldn't have a field jam-packed with referees | 但你不应该有 野外果酱包装 裁判员 |
| 357 | such that you could not kick a ball in any direction | 以至于你无法向任何方向踢球 |
| 358 | without hitting one. | 不打一个。 |
| 359 | So the fields that have been around for a long time, | 所以,那些田地已经 周围很长一段时间, |
| 360 | such as automotive, aerospace, | 例如汽车、航空航天、 |
| 361 | the sort of food and drug industries are over-regulated, | 食品和毒品行业监管过严, |
| 362 | but the new fields like artificial intelligence | 但像人工智能这样的新领域 |
| 363 | are under-regulated. | 监管不力。 |
| 364 | In fact, there is no regulator at all. | 事实上,根本就没有监管者。 |
| 365 | So there should be, do you still think that? | 所以应该,你还这么认为吗? |
| 366 | Yes, I'm simply saying, | 是的,我只是说, |
| 367 | which I think is just basic common sense, | 我认为这只是基本常识, |
| 368 | that you want to have at least, | 你至少想要一个, |
| 369 | you want to have a few referees in the field. | 您想要一些裁判员到场。 |
| 370 | You don't want to have an army of referees, | 你不想有一支裁判员队伍, |
| 371 | but you want to have a few referees on any given field, | 但是,你想有一些裁判 在任何特定的领域, |
| 372 | in any given sport or any given arena, industrial arena, | 在任何特定的运动或任何特定的竞技场,工业领域, |
| 373 | to ensure help that public safety is taken care of. | 确保公共安全得到保障。 |
| 374 | But you don't want to have, | 但你不想拥有 |
| 375 | so there's a proper number of referees. | 所以有相当数量的裁判员 |
| 376 | Like I said, it's actually very easy to visualize this | 就像我说的,其实很容易想象 |
| 377 | when compared to sports. | 与运动相比 |
| 378 | If the whole field is packed with referees, | 如果整个球场都有裁判员 |
| 379 | that would look absurd. | 这看起来太荒谬了 |
| 380 | But if there were no referees at all, | 但如果根本没有裁判 |
| 381 | your game's not gonna be as good. | 你的游戏不会那么好 |
| 382 | Okay, so let's then talk about your new world, | 好吧,让我们谈谈你的新世界, |
| 383 | your role advising government. | 你的角色为政府提供建议 |
| 384 | You are in this unique and unprecedented position | 你身处这个前所未有的独特位置 |
| 385 | of having billions of dollars worth of contracts | 价值数十亿美元的合同 |
| 386 | with the federal government yourself, | 与联邦政府自己, |
| 387 | 大部分通过SpaceX, | |
| 388 | and also now an insider's knowledge of it because of Doge. | 并且现在也因为多吉而有内行对此的了解. |
| 389 | Can you see that there is a conflict of interest | 你能看到有利益冲突吗? |
| 390 | or a potential conflict of interest in broad terms | 或广义上的潜在利益冲突 |
| 391 | just through that very fact? | 只是通过这个事实? |
| 392 | I don't think so, actually. | 其实我不这么认为。 |
| 393 | There have been many advisors throughout history | 历史上有很多顾问 |
| 394 | and the US government and others | 美国政府和其他人 |
| 395 | who have had economic interests, | 他们是有经济利益的, |
| 396 | and I am simply an advisor. | 我只是个顾问 |
| 397 | I don't have formal power, and that's it. | 我没有正式的权力,就是这样。 |
| 398 | A president can choose to accept my advice or not, | 总统可以选择接受我的建议 |
| 399 | and that's how it goes. | 就是这样 |
| 400 | If there's a single contract | 如果有一个合同 |
| 401 | that any of my companies have received | 我的公司都收到过 |
| 402 | that people think is somehow not, | 人们认为不知何故, |
| 403 | was awarded improperly, | 裁决不当, |
| 404 | it would immediately be front page news, to say the least. | 至少可以说,这将成为头版新闻。 |
| 405 | And if I hadn't mentioned it, | 如果我没有提起它, |
| 406 | certainly my competitors would. | 当然,我的竞争者会。 |
| 407 | So if you're not seeing that, | 所以,如果你没有看到这一点, |
| 408 | then clearly there's not a conflict of interest. | 那显然没有利益冲突 |
| 409 | There's another way, though, to look at it, | 还有一种方法,看看它, |
| 410 | that, for example, you have many competitors, | 比如说,你有很多竞争对手 |
| 411 | whether it's companies like Boeing | 不管是波音这样的公司 |
| 412 | or companies who would like to do more | 或愿意做更多工作的公司 |
| 413 | of the kind of work you do for NASA, | 那种你为美国宇航局做的工作, |
| 414 | Blue Origin, Rocket Lab, | 蓝源,火箭实验室, |
| 415 | and because Doge is in every federal government department, | 因为Doge在联邦政府每个部门 |
| 416 | you or people who work for Doge | 你或为Doge工作的人 |
| 417 | and you are the driving force behind it | 你是背后的驱动力 |
| 418 | have an insight into those companies' affairs | 了解这些公司的事务 |
| 419 | and those companies' relationships | 和这些公司的关系 |
| 420 | with the federal government. | 与联邦政府。 |
| 421 | No, all we do is we review the organization | 不,我们所做的就是审查组织 |
| 422 | to see if the organization has departments | 看看该组织是否有部门 |
| 423 | that are no longer relevant. | 不再相关。 |
| 424 | And then are the contracts that are being awarded | 然后是被授予的合同 |
| 425 | good value for money? | 钱值多少? |
| 426 | In fact, frankly, the bar is not particularly high. | 事实上,坦率地说,酒吧并不特别高。 |
| 427 | Is there any value for money in a contract? | 合同中是否有金钱价值? |
| 428 | And if there isn't, | 如果没有 |
| 429 | then we make recommendations to the secretary. | 然后我们向秘书提出建议。 |
| 430 | The secretary can then choose | 秘书可以选择 |
| 431 | to take those actions or not take those actions. | 是否采取这些行动。 |
| 432 | And that's it. | 且道. |
| 433 | And then any action that is as a function of Doge | 然后任何作为Doge功能的动作 |
| 434 | is posted to the Doge website | 贴在Doge网站上 |
| 435 | 和Doge.gov或Doge在X平台上的手柄。 | |
| 436 | So it's complete transparency. | 所以这是完全透明。 |
| 437 | And I've not seen any case where, | 我从未见过这样的情况 |
| 438 | to the best of my knowledge, | 据我所知, |
| 439 | there's even been an accusation of conflict | 甚至有人指控有冲突 |
| 440 | because it is completely and utterly transparent. | 因为它是完全和完全透明的。 |
| 441 | That's it. | 就这样 |
| 442 | And what about the international dimension? | 那国际层面呢? |
| 443 | 现在,让我们想想Starlink。 | |
| 444 | Starlink is obviously a very, very good internet service. | 星际链接显然是一个非常好的互联网服务。 |
| 445 | It's sought after all over the world. | 随世间而求之. |
| 446 | It's critical to the front line in Ukraine. | 这对乌克兰的前线至关重要. |
| 447 | It has also had more contracts coming its way | 也有很多合同要签 |
| 448 | and there is some evidence | 并有一些证据 |
| 449 | that companies are allowing access to it | 公司允许使用 |
| 450 | because they want to be close to the Trump administration | 因为他们想接近特朗普政府 |
| 451 | and send the right signal. | 并发出正确的信号。 |
| 452 | So Bloomberg broke news today | 彭博今天有消息说 |
| 453 | that the South African government is working around | 南非政府正围绕 |
| 454 | the rules on black ownership in order to allow Starlink in. | 为了让Starlink进入 黑人所有权的规则 |
| 455 | And that is being done on the eve of the visit | 而在访问前夕 |
| 456 | the President Ramaphosa is going to make to the White House. | 拉马福萨总统要到白宫 |
| 457 | Do you recognize that as a conflict of interest? | 你承认这是利益冲突吗? |
| 458 | No, of course not. | 不,当然不是。 |
| 459 | First of all, you should be questioning | 首先,你应该问 |
| 460 | why are there racist laws in South Africa? | 南非为何有种族主义法律? |
| 461 | That's the first problem. | 这是第一个问题。 |
| 462 | That's what you should be attacking. | 这就是你应该攻击。 |
| 463 | It's improper for there to be racist laws in South Africa. | 南非有种族主义法律是不恰当的. |
| 464 | The whole idea with what Nelson Mandela, | 纳尔逊·曼德拉的想法 |
| 465 | who was a great man, proposed | 他是一个伟大的人,被提议 |
| 466 | was that all races should be on an equal footing | 是所有种族应该平等 |
| 467 | in South Africa. | 南非 |
| 468 | That's the right thing to do. | 即是正觉. |
| 469 | Not to replace one set of racist laws | 不取代一套种族主义法律 |
| 470 | with another set of racist laws, | 与另一套种族主义法律, |
| 471 | which is utterly wrong and improper. | 这是完全错误和不恰当的。 |
| 472 | So that's the deal. | 这么说吧 |
| 473 | That all races should be treated equally | 所有种族都应该一视同仁 |
| 474 | and there should be no preference given to one or the other. | 不应优先考虑其中之一。 |
| 475 | Whereas there are now 140 laws in South Africa | 南非现有140项法律 |
| 476 | that basically give strong preference | 基本上给予强烈的偏好 |
| 477 | to if you're black South African and not otherwise. | 如果你是南非黑人 而不是别的人 |
| 478 | And so now I'm in this absurd situation | 所以现在我陷入了荒谬的境地 |
| 479 | where I was born in South Africa | 我出生于南非 |
| 480 | but can't get a license to operate in Starlink | 但无法在星际链接获得运营许可证 |
| 481 | because I'm not black. | 因为我不是黑人 |
| 482 | Well, it looks like that's about to change. | 嗯,它看起来像 即将改变。 |
| 483 | I just asked you a question. | 我只是问你一个问题 |
| 484 | Please answer. | 请回答。 |
| 485 | Does that seem right to you? | 你觉得这样对吗? |
| 486 | Well, those rules were designed to bring, | 这些规则是为了... |
| 487 | those rules were designed to bring about an era | 这些规则是为了带来一个时代 |
| 488 | of more economic equality in South Africa. | 南非经济更加平等。 |
| 489 | And it looks like the government has found a way | 看来政府找到了办法 |
| 490 | around those rules for you. | 绕着你的规矩 |
| 491 | I asked you a question. | 我问你一个问题。 |
| 492 | This is your interview. | 这是你的采访。 |
| 493 | Everyone wants to hear from you. | 每个人都想听到你的声音 |
| 494 | I asked you a question. | 我问你一个问题。 |
| 495 | Yes or no? | 是还是不是? |
| 496 | Racist laws, yes or no? | 种族主义法,是还是不是? |
| 497 | Not for me to answer. | 不为我答. |
| 498 | I have got a question for you about your government work | 我有个问题要问你 关于你的政府工作 |
| 499 | and the amount of savings. | 和节省的金额。 |
| 500 | Why do you like racist laws? | 你为什么喜欢种族主义法律? |
| 501 | This is not for me to answer. | 这不是我的回答。 |
| 502 | Come on. | 来吧。 |
| 503 | Now you wouldn't be trying to dodge a question | 现在你不会想回避一个问题 |
| 504 | that is difficult for you to answer. | 你很难回答 |
| 505 | No, you answer mine. | 不,你回答我的问题。 |
| 506 | I think if you, | 我认为如果你, |
| 507 | I'm sure you can have that conversation directly | 我敢肯定,你可以有 对话直接 |
| 508 | with the South African government if you want to. | 与南非政府 如果你想。 |
| 509 | I want to ask you about the total. | 我想问你一下总数 |
| 510 | Look, I can't believe it. | 我简直不敢相信 |
| 511 | That's not good. | 这可不好 |
| 512 | I want to ask you about the total amount. | 我想问你总金额 |
| 513 | Why do you like racist laws? | 你为什么喜欢种族主义法律? |
| 514 | I want to ask you about the total amount | 我想问你总金额 |
| 515 | that you're planning to save through Doge's work. | 你计划通过Doge的工作来保存 |
| 516 | Before the election, | 在选举前, |
| 517 | you said it was going to be at least two trillion. | 你说至少要两万亿 |
| 518 | The number currently on doge.gov is $170 billion. | 目前doge.gov上的数字为1700亿美元. |
| 519 | That's a big change. | 变化甚大. |
| 520 | What happened to the two trillion? | 两万亿又怎么了? |
| 521 | Would you expect it to happen immediately? | 你会期望它立即发生吗? |
| 522 | Well, is it going to happen | 那么,这是要发生 |
| 523 | because Doge is supposed to run until next July? | 因为Doge要跑到明年七月? |
| 524 | I mean, your question is absurd in its fundamental premise. | 我的意思是,你的问题是荒谬的 因为它的基本前提。 |
| 525 | Are you assuming that within a few months, | 你猜几个月后 |
| 526 | there's an instant two trillion saved? | 有两万亿的瞬间拯救? |
| 527 | No, I'm not at all. | 不,我没有。 |
| 528 | I'm just asking you, is that still your aim then? | 我只是问你,你的目标还在吗? |
| 529 | Is it still your aim to get to two trillion? | 你的目标还是要达到两万亿吗? |
| 530 | Have we not made good progress given the amount of time? | 时间不够,我们没有取得良好进展吗? |
| 531 | That's exactly what I'm asking. | 这正是我问的。 |
| 532 | So is it still your aim to go from 170 billion to two trillion? | 那么,你的目标仍然是 从1700亿到2万亿? |
| 533 | The ability of Doge to operate | Doge的操作能力 |
| 534 | is a function of whether the government, | 这是政府是否 |
| 535 | and this includes the Congress, | 这包括国会, |
| 536 | is willing to take our advice. | 愿意接受我们的建议 |
| 537 | We're not the dictators of the government. | 我们不是政府的独裁者. |
| 538 | We are the advisors. | 我们是顾问 |
| 539 | And so we can advise, | 所以我们可以建议 |
| 540 | and the progress we've made thus far, I think, is incredible. | 我认为,我们迄今取得的进展令人难以置信。 |
| 541 | The Doge team has done incredible work. | Doge团队完成了令人难以置信的工作. |
| 542 | But the magnitude of the savings | 但积蓄之大 |
| 543 | is proportionate to the support we get from Congress | 我们从国会得到的支持是相称的 |
| 544 | and from the executive branch of the government in general. | 和一般政府行政部门。 |
| 545 | So we're not the dictators, we are the advisors. | 所以我们不是独裁者 我们是顾问 |
| 546 | But thus far, four advisors with the Doge team, | 但到目前为止 多吉团队的四名顾问 |
| 547 | to their credit, has made incredible progress. | 他们的功劳, 已经取得了令人难以置信的进展。 |
| 548 | You've talked about $4 billion a day being saved, | 你说过每天有40亿美元被拯救 |
| 549 | but that won't get, | 但不会得到, |
| 550 | which is, and I think everyone can agree, | 这是,我认为每个人都可以同意, |
| 551 | that combating waste and inefficiency in government | 防止浪费和政府效率低下 |
| 552 | is a very good thing. | 这是件好事 |
| 553 | But if you add that up, | 但是,如果你加起来, |
| 554 | it's not gonna get to two trillion | 不到两万亿 |
| 555 | over the lifetime of Doge. | 在整个多吉的一生中 |
| 556 | I'm sorry? | 你说什么? |
| 557 | The four billion a day, | 一天四十亿 |
| 558 | if Doge is gonna run till next July, | 如果道格要跑到明年七月 |
| 559 | is not going to get you to two trillion dollars. | 无法让你达到两万亿美元。 |
| 560 | But you still say it's your aim, | 但你还是说这是你的目标 |
| 561 | so we'll take that as read. | 所以,我们把它当作读。 |
| 562 | There's what Doge, | 有个道格 |
| 563 | I mean, I feel you're somewhat trapped | 我是说,我觉得你有点被困住了 |
| 564 | in the NPC dialogue tree of a traditional journalist. | 在NPC对话树上,一位传统记者。 |
| 565 | So it's difficult when I'm conversing with someone | 所以,这很难 当我与某人交谈 |
| 566 | who's trapped in the dialogue tree | 被困在对话框树上的 |
| 567 | of a conventional journalist, | 一个传统的记者, |
| 568 | because it's like talking to a computer. | 因为这就像对电脑说话。 |
| 569 | So Doge is an advisory group. | 所以道格是一个顾问小组。 |
| 570 | We are doing the best we can as an advisory group. | 我们正在作为一个咨询小组尽最大努力。 |
| 571 | The progress made thus far as an advisory group | 咨询小组迄今取得的进展 |
| 572 | is excellent. | 不错 |
| 573 | I don't think any advisory group has done better | 我觉得没有任何顾问团做得更好 |
| 574 | in the history of advisory groups of the government. | 在政府咨询小组的历史中。 |
| 575 | Now, we do not make the laws, | 现在,我们没有制定法律, |
| 576 | nor do we control the judiciary, | 我们也不控制司法, |
| 577 | nor do we control the executive branch. | 我们也不控制行政部门。 |
| 578 | We are simply advisors. | 我们只是顾问 |
| 579 | In that context, we are doing very well. | 在这方面,我们做得非常好。 |
| 580 | Beyond that, we cannot take action beyond that, | 除此之外,我们不能再采取行动, |
| 581 | because we are not some sort of imperial dictator | 因为我们不是帝国独裁者 |
| 582 | of the government. | 总统阁下 |
| 583 | There are three branches of government | 政府有三个部门 |
| 584 | that are to some degree opposed | 在某种程度上反对 |
| 585 | to that level of cost savings. | 以达到节省成本的水平。 |
| 586 | But nonetheless, let's not criticize | 不过我们不要批评 |
| 587 | whether there's four trillion, | 是否有四万亿, |
| 588 | and instead look at the fact | 而不是看看事实 |
| 589 | that 160 billion has been saved, | 拯救了1600亿 |
| 590 | and more will be saved too. | 还会有更多人被拯救 |
| 591 | And as I said, I think everyone can agree | 就像我说的,我想每个人都可以同意 |
| 592 | that cutting waste and indeed fraud | 减少浪费和欺诈 |
| 593 | in any government and being responsible | 在任何政府中和负有责任 |
| 594 | with taxpayers' money is a very good thing. | 纳税人的钱是件好事 |
| 595 | So I can see that you're proud of that work. | 我看得出来你为那份工作感到骄傲 |
| 596 | I do want to ask you about USAID | 我想问你关于美援署的事 |
| 597 | and the comments that Bill Gates made the other day, | 以及比尔·盖茨那天发表的评论 |
| 598 | which I know that you called him. | 我知道你打电话给他。 |
| 599 | Yeah, he's a good liar. | 是的,他是个好骗子。 |
| 600 | I know, you've said that already. | 我知道 你已经说过了 |
| 601 | I wondered. | 我想问。 |
| 602 | Also, who does Bill Gates think he is | 还有,比尔·盖茨认为他是谁 |
| 603 | to make comments about the welfare of children | 对儿童福利发表意见; |
| 604 | given that he is equivalent to Jeffrey Epstein? | 鉴于他相当于杰弗里·爱泼斯坦? |
| 605 | Okay, well, he said he regrets those, | 好吧 他说他后悔了 |
| 606 | and he spent a lot of his own money | 他花了很多钱 |
| 607 | on philanthropy around the world over the years. | 这些年来,全世界都在慈善事业上 |
| 608 | My question to you is, | 我的问题是, |
| 609 | have you looked at the data to check | 您是否查看了数据以检查 |
| 610 | if he might be right that the cuts to USAID | 如果他是对的 削减美援署 |
| 611 | might cost millions of lives? | 可能会夺走数百万人的生命? |
| 612 | Yes, I'd like him to show us any evidence whatsoever | 是的,我想他给我们看任何证据 |
| 613 | that that is true or it's false. | 这是真的,还是是假的。 |
| 614 | What we found with USAID cuts, | 我们发现了美援署的削减, |
| 615 | and by the way, they have an open cut, | 顺便说一句,他们有一个公开的切口, |
| 616 | the parts of USAID that were found to be | 美援署发现的 |
| 617 | even slightly useful were transferred | 甚至稍有用处 |
| 618 | to the State Department. | 致国务院. |
| 619 | So they've not been deleted. | 故未删. |
| 620 | They've certainly been transferred to the State Department. | 他们肯定已经转到国务院了 |
| 621 | But many times over with USAID and other organizations, | 但多次与美援署和其他组织, |
| 622 | when they said, oh, well, this is going to help | 当他们说,哦,好吧, 这将会帮助 |
| 623 | children or it's going to help some | 孩子们,或者它会帮助一些 |
| 624 | disease eradication or something like that. | 消灭疾病或类似的东西。 |
| 625 | And then when we ask for any evidence whatsoever, | 然后当我们要求任何证据时 |
| 626 | I say, well, please connect us with this group of children | 我说,请把我们和这群孩子联系起来 |
| 627 | so we can talk to them and understand more about their issue. | 这样我们就可以和他们谈谈,更多地了解他们的问题。 |
| 628 | We get nothing. | 我们一无所获 |
| 629 | Would they even try to come up with a show often, | 他们会经常想出一个节目吗? |
| 630 | meaning like, it's sort of like, | 意思是,它有点像, |
| 631 | well, can we at least see a few kids? | 我们至少可以看看几个孩子吗? |
| 632 | Where are they? | 他们在哪? |
| 633 | If they're in trouble, we'd like to talk to them | 如果他们有麻烦,我们想和他们谈谈 |
| 634 | and talk to their caregivers. | 和他们的照顾者谈谈 |
| 635 | And then we get nothing as a response | 然后我们没有得到任何回应 |
| 636 | because what we find is an enormous amount | 因为我们发现的是一个巨大的数量 |
| 637 | of fraud and graft. | 欺诈和贪污。 |
| 638 | Okay, let me put this example to you. | 好吧,让我举个例子给你。 |
| 639 | Very little of it actually gets to the kids, | 几乎没有真正得到的孩子, |
| 640 | if anything at all. | 如果有什么的话。 |
| 641 | Let me put this example to you | 让我给你举个例子 |
| 642 | because you grew up in South Africa, | 因为你在南非长大 |
| 643 | so you will know the impact of HIV AIDS well. | 这样你就能很好地了解艾滋病毒/艾滋病的影响。 |
| 644 | And this is why I asked about the data. | 这就是我问数据的原因。 |
| 645 | The U.S. led on international efforts | 美国领导了国际努力 |
| 646 | to combat HIV AIDS treatment, prevention, | - 防治艾滋病毒/艾滋病; |
| 647 | 有个叫PEPFAR的倡议 | |
| 648 | which is credited with saving 26 million lives | 拯救了2 600万人的生命 |
| 649 | in the last 20 years. | 过去20年里 |
| 650 | It was part of the foreign aid freeze, | 这是对外援助冻结的一部分 |
| 651 | then there was a limited waiver. | 然后是有限的放弃。 |
| 652 | Its services are disrupted. | 其服务中断。 |
| 653 | And UN aid says if permanently discontinued, | 联合国的援助说,如果永久停止, |
| 654 | there will be another four million AIDS-related deaths | 还会有400万人死于艾滋病 |
| 655 | by 2029. | 到2029年为止。 |
| 656 | So if you look at that example, | 所以,如果你看看这个例子, |
| 657 | which is backed up by data, | 由数据支撑, |
| 658 | in 2023, 630,000 people died of AIDS-related illnesses, | 2023年,有63万人死于与艾滋病有关的疾病, |
| 659 | then perhaps Bill Gates's figures are not wrong. | 那么也许比尔·盖茨的数字没有错 |
| 660 | Millions of lives could be lost. | 数百万人可能丧生。 |
| 661 | First of all, the program, | 首先 节目 |
| 662 | the AIDS medication program is continuing. | 艾滋病药物方案仍在继续。 |
| 663 | So your fundamental premise is wrong. | 所以,你的基本前提是错误的。 |
| 664 | It is continuing. | 它仍在继续。 |
| 665 | Now, do you have another example? | 现在,你有另一个例子吗? |
| 666 | Since the one you cited, it's false. | 自从你提到的那一个,这是虚假的。 |
| 667 | Ilan, not in its entirety. | 伊兰,不是整个。 |
| 668 | But it said it is false. | 但它说这是虚假的。 |
| 669 | Not in its entirety. | 不全然无. |
| 670 | The program, there's a limited waiver | 程序,有一个有限的豁免 |
| 671 | and UN aids have said that not all of the services | 联合国援助社说,并非所有服务 |
| 672 | that were previously funded by USAID are continuing. | 以前由美援署供资的方案仍在继续。 |
| 673 | So that's why I put that example to you. | 这就是为什么我把这个例子给你。 |
| 674 | Okay, well, which ones aren't being funded? | 好吧,哪一个没有资金? |
| 675 | I'll fix it right now. | 我今当修. |
| 676 | Okay, well, actually they're all on the UN AIDS website. | 好吧,实际上,他们都在联合国艾滋病网站上。 |
| 677 | So you'll be able to see them. | 所以,你会看到他们。 |
| 678 | But mostly they are to do with prevention. | 但它们大多与预防有关。 |
| 679 | And for example, the rollout of a drug called Lenacapivir, | 比如说 一种叫Lenacapivir的药物的推出 |
| 680 | which was hailed as one of the biggest breakthroughs | 被誉为最大的突破之一 |
| 681 | against AIDS for many years, which came out last year. | 多年来抗击艾滋病的斗争,去年才出现。 |
| 682 | So if you are, perhaps, I'm sure UN AIDS would be delighted | 所以,如果你是,也许,我相信 联合国艾滋病会很高兴 |
| 683 | if you're able to look at that again. | 如果你能再看一遍的话 |
| 684 | Yes, but if in fact this is true, which I doubt it is, | 是的,但如果这是真的, 我怀疑它是, |
| 685 | then we'll fix it. | 然后我们会修复它。 |
| 686 | Okay, fine. | 好吧,没事。 |
| 687 | So finally, political, your political influence. | 最后,你的政治影响 |
| 688 | I wondered whether you have decided yet | 不知道你有没有决定 |
| 689 | how much you're going to spend on the upcoming midterms. | 你要花多少钱来做即将到来的中期测试 |
| 690 | Is it, you spent a lot more money on the last US election | 上次美国大选你花了很多钱 |
| 691 | than you envisaged when you were speaking here | 比你在这里说话时想象的要好 |
| 692 | three years ago. | 三年前,我说, |
| 693 | Are you gonna continue to spend at that kind of level | 你会继续花在那种水平 |
| 694 | on future elections? | 未来选举? |
| 695 | I think in terms of political spending, | 我想从政治开支来看 |
| 696 | I'm gonna do a lot less in the future. | 我以后会少很多的 |
| 697 | And why is that? | 为什么? |
| 698 | I think I've done enough. | 我想我已经做了足够的。 |
| 699 | Is it because of blowback? | 是因为回击吗? |
| 700 | Well, if I see a reason to do political spending | 如果我看到一个理由做政治开支 |
| 701 | in the future, I will do it. | 将来,我会做到这一点。 |
| 702 | I don't currently see a reason. | 我目前没有看到什么原因 |
| 703 | What about political influence beyond the US? | 那美国以外的政治影响呢? |
| 704 | How often do you speak to President Putin? | 你多久跟普京总统说话一次? |
| 705 | I don't speak to President Putin. | 我不跟普京总统说话. |
| 706 | You've never spoken to President Putin? | 你从没跟普京总统说过话? |
| 707 | I was on a video call with him once about five years ago. | 大约五年前我和他打过电话 |
| 708 | That's the only time. | 这是唯一的时间。 |
| 709 | Why would you think I speak to President Putin? | 我为什么要跟普京总统说话? |
| 710 | Oh, you must, I get it. | 哦,你必须,我明白了。 |
| 711 | You believe the legacy. | 你相信遗产。 |
| 712 | Actually, I've heard you speak about it. | 事实上,我听说你说过 |
| 713 | For example, in your West Point speech, | 例如,在你的西点演讲中, |
| 714 | you said, oh, I challenged President Putin to, | 你说,哦,我挑战普京总统, |
| 715 | was it an arm wrestle? | 是手臂摔跤吗? |
| 716 | And I know the Wall Street Journal | 我知道华尔街日报 |
| 717 | has reported your reported conversations. | 已经报告了你的谈话 |
| 718 | If you're saying they haven't happened other than once, | 如果你是说他们只发生过一次 |
| 719 | I'll take that as read. | 我当作是念. |
| 720 | Is there a worse publication on the face of the earth | 地球上有没有更糟糕的出版物 |
| 721 | than the Wall Street Journal? | 比《华尔街日报》还好? |
| 722 | I wouldn't use that to line up my cage for paratrophics. | 我不会用它排成一排 用来做弱智 |
| 723 | That newspaper is the worst newspaper in the world. | 那家报纸是世界上最糟糕的报纸 |
| 724 | If there's one newspaper that should be pro-capitalist, | 如果有一份报纸是亲资本主义的 |
| 725 | it's the one with Wall Street in the name, but it isn't. | 是那个叫华尔街的,但不是 |
| 726 | So I have the very lowest opinion | 所以我有非常低的见解 |
| 727 | of the Wall Street Journal, absolutely nonsense. | 胡说八道 |
| 728 | And you clearly believe the tripe | 你显然相信这三脚怪 |
| 729 | that you've written, that you've read in those papers. | 你在报纸上读过 |
| 730 | I read very widely and I'm putting these questions to you | 我读得非常广泛,我把这些问题交给你 |
| 731 | so that you have an opportunity to respond to them, | 以便你们有机会答复他们, |
| 732 | which you are and for which we're all grateful | 你是谁,我们都很感激 |
| 733 | to hear your responses. | 听到你的反应。 |
| 734 | Okay, we are out of time. | 好了 我们没时间了 |
| 735 | So you mentioned, you mentioned re-challenging. | 所以,你提到,你提到 重新质疑。 |
| 736 | I did so on the X platform. | 我这样做在X平台。 |
| 737 | I challenged Vladimir Putin to single combat | 我挑战弗拉基米尔·普京 单打独斗 |
| 738 | over the, I didn't talk to him. | 我没有和他说话 |
| 739 | That was a post on the X platform. | 那是在X平台上贴的 |
| 740 | That's why I asked you and you've clarified and explained. | 这就是为什么我问你, 你已经澄清和解释。 |
| 741 | Thank you, that's why I was asking | 谢谢,所以我问 |
| 742 | whether you have had reported conversations | 您是否报告过对话 |
| 743 | and you said you have it other than a video call. | 你说你有除了视频电话以外的东西 |
| 744 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 745 | Legacy media lies. | 遗产媒体说谎. |
| 746 | Okay, listen, I actually thought I might give Grok | 好吧,听着,我其实以为我会给Grok |
| 747 | the last word because when I asked Grok | 最后一句话,因为当我问格鲁克 |
| 748 | what your hardest challenge is, | 你最艰难的挑战是什么? |
| 749 | it said the strain of managing multiple high-stake ventures | 它说管理多个高额投资企业的压力 |
| 750 | amid financial regulatory and public relations crises. | 在金融监管和公共关系危机中。 |
| 751 | And I wondered whether you recognize that characterization | 我想知道你是否认识到这个特征 |
| 752 | and whether you do think that this | 你是否认为 |
| 753 | is a pivotal year in your life. | 你生命中的关键一年 |
| 754 | Well, every year has been somewhat pivotal | 嗯,每年都有些关键 |
| 755 | and this one's no different. | 而这个也没什么不同。 |
| 756 | So, I mean, in terms of interesting things | 所以,我的意思是,在有趣的事情方面 |
| 757 | that probably are accomplished this year, | 很可能是今年完成的, |
| 758 | the getting Starship to be fully reused | 让星舰完全重用 |
| 759 | so that we catch both the booster and the ship, | 以便我们赶上推进器和飞船, |
| 760 | which will be the first fully reusable | 这将是第一个完全重用 |
| 761 | orbital rocket ever in history, | 有史以来的轨道火箭, |
| 762 | which would be a profound breakthrough | 这将是一个深刻的突破 |
| 763 | as the essential breakthrough necessarily | 作为必要的突破 |
| 764 | to make life multi-planetary | 创造多行星的生命 |
| 765 | and ultimately become a space-faring civilization. | 最终成为太空文明 |
| 766 | We've got Neuralink, which has now helped five patients | 我们有Neuralink 现在帮助了五个病人 |
| 767 | restore capability using the telepathy implants | 使用感应植入器恢复能力 |
| 768 | where they're able to control the computer | 他们能控制电脑的地方 |
| 769 | simply by thinking. | 仅仅通过思考。 |
| 770 | We'll be doing our first patient to restore site | 我们会做我们的第一个病人 恢复现场 |
| 771 | with our blind site implant, | 与我们的盲点植入, |
| 772 | which is the end of this year or early next. | 这是今年的结束 或明年初。 |
| 773 | In fact, that first patient might be in UAE | 事实上,第一个病人可能在阿联酋 |
| 774 | since we have a relationship with UAE | 既然我们和阿联酋有关系 |
| 775 | and the Cleveland Clinic there. | 还有克利夫兰诊所 |
| 776 | I think we're throwing on the AI front, | 我想我们是在打AI战线 |
| 777 | we are close to what you might call AGI. | 我们接近你所谓的AGI。 |
| 778 | Or digital super intelligence. | 或数位超级智能. |
| 779 | I think we are seeing an explosion | 我想我们正看到爆炸 |
| 780 | in digital super intelligence here. | 在数字超级智能这里。 |
| 781 | And then we've got at Tesla, | 然后我们得到了特斯拉, |
| 782 | we'll be launching unsupervised autonomy, | 我们将推出不受监督的自主权, |
| 783 | basically self-driving cars | 基本上是自驾车 |
| 784 | with no one in them in Austin next month. | 下个月在奥斯汀没人 |
| 785 | So it's a big year for sure. | 所以,这是一个很大的一年是肯定的。 |
| 786 | Many other things in the works too. | 作品中还有很多其他的东西 |
| 787 | I'm a technologist first and foremost. | 我首先是一个技术专家。 |
| 788 | Elon Musk, thank you very much for joining us here | 埃隆·穆斯克,非常感谢你加入我们 |
| 789 | at Qatar Economic Forum. | 卡塔尔经济论坛。 |
| 790 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
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