专访加州参议员亚当·希夫谈民主党路线分歧 | 2026.8.
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:01 | To lead the conversation on stage, please welcome podcast host and playbook co-author Dasha Burns in conversation with U.S. | 请欢迎播客主播和游戏本联合作者Dasha Burns与美国对话。 |
| 0:09 | Senator Adam Schiff. | 参议员亚当·希夫 |
| 0:14 | Gotta get this mic flag on here. | 这儿得挂上麦克风旗 |
| 0:17 | Show off the branding. | 展现品牌. |
| 0:19 | Thank you all so much for being here. | 非常感谢你们能来 |
| 0:21 | Thank you Senator Adam Schiff for being here as well. | 谢谢你亚当·希夫参议员也来过这里 |
| 0:25 | Are we good here? | 我们在这里好吗? |
| 0:26 | Yeah, good enough. | 是啊,够了。 |
| 0:27 | Good enough. | 够好了 |
| 0:27 | We'll make it work. | 我们会成功的。 |
展开字幕全文（328 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | To lead the conversation on stage, please welcome podcast host and playbook co-author Dasha Burns in conversation with U.S. | 请欢迎播客主播和游戏本联合作者Dasha Burns与美国对话。 |
| 2 | Senator Adam Schiff. | 参议员亚当·希夫 |
| 3 | Gotta get this mic flag on here. | 这儿得挂上麦克风旗 |
| 4 | Show off the branding. | 展现品牌. |
| 5 | Thank you all so much for being here. | 非常感谢你们能来 |
| 6 | Thank you Senator Adam Schiff for being here as well. | 谢谢你亚当·希夫参议员也来过这里 |
| 7 | Are we good here? | 我们在这里好吗? |
| 8 | Yeah, good enough. | 是啊,够了。 |
| 9 | Good enough. | 够好了 |
| 10 | We'll make it work. | 我们会成功的。 |
| 11 | It's so fun to host a podcast with an audience. | 和观众一起主持播客真有趣. |
| 12 | Usually I'm either cooped up in my little home studio or somewhere in the streets of Washington. | 通常我要么被困在我的小家工作室 要么被困在华盛顿的街道上 |
| 13 | So what was that website again? | 那个网站又是什么? |
| 14 | They do such a good job of promotion. | 他们的晋升表现很好。 |
| 15 | The conversation. | 谈话 |
| 16 | Click subscribe wherever you get your podcast. | 在获得播客时单击订阅。 |
| 17 | Senator Adam Schiff, thank you so much for joining the conversation live here in Sacramento. | Adam Schiff参议员 非常感谢你加入在萨克拉门托的谈话 |
| 18 | Great to be with you. | 很高兴和你在一起。 |
| 19 | California is actually my home state. | 加州其实是我的家乡 |
| 20 | I grew up in San Diego. | 我在圣地亚哥长大的 |
| 21 | My husband's from L.A. | 我丈夫来自洛杉矶 |
| 22 | We already had plenty of Los Angeles gossip backstage that we will not rehash here. | 我们已经有很多洛杉矶的八卦 后台,我们不会在这里重现。 |
| 23 | But I do want to talk to you about both California and California's place in the big picture for the Democratic Party because there is just kind of a lot going on for Democrats right now. | 但我确实想和你谈谈 加州和加州在民主党的大局中的位置 因为现在民主党人有很多事情要做 |
| 24 | We in Washington have been watching very closely some of these primaries. | 我们华盛顿一直非常密切地注视着这些初选。 |
| 25 | You had progressive Abdul El-Sayed just beat establishment backed Democrat in Michigan. | 你让进步的阿卜杜勒·赛义德打败了密歇根州的民主党 |
| 26 | Dozens of DSA backed candidates are winning primaries across the country. | 数十名DSA支持的候选人在全国赢得初选. |
| 27 | Today is Election Day and Wisconsin Democrats might nominate Democratic Socialist Francesca Hong for governor. | 今天是选举日,威斯康星州的民主党人可能提名民主社会主义者弗朗切斯卡·洪为州长. |
| 28 | Here in California, though, voters nominated the most establishment credentialed Democrat in a crowded governor's field. | 不过,在加州,选民们提名了一个 拥挤的州长领域里最有机构资格的民主党人。 |
| 29 | You'll hear from Javier Becerra in a moment here. | 哈维尔·贝塞拉马上会通知你 |
| 30 | San Francisco just handed its moderate mayor a clean sweep. | 旧金山刚刚给温和的市长做了扫荡 |
| 31 | Is this one Democratic Party right now? | 这是民主党吗? |
| 32 | What's going on, Senator? | 这是怎么回事,参议员? |
| 33 | It is one Democratic Party. | 这是一个民主党。 |
| 34 | And I think if we want to be in the majority, we're going to have to be a big tent party. | 我想如果我们想占多数, 我们必须成为一个大的帐篷派对。 |
| 35 | I would much rather have that diversity in our party than have it outside the party. | 我更希望我们党有这种多样性,而不是党外多样性. |
| 36 | I don't think you can extrapolate too much from the results because they're all over the map. | 我不认为你能从结果中推断太多,因为结果遍布地图上. |
| 37 | Literally, a mainstream moderate candidate just won in Hawaii. | 从字面上讲,一位主流温和派候选人刚刚在夏威夷获胜. |
| 38 | Others won in Iowa and New Jersey and Virginia. | 其他人在爱荷华州、新泽西州和弗吉尼亚州获胜。 |
| 39 | And then you had very progressive and DSA candidates went elsewhere. | 然后你有非常进步 和DSA的候选人去了别的地方。 |
| 40 | Very hard to generalize except this. | 很难概括 除了这个 |
| 41 | I think the common denominator is people are, for a very good reason, deeply dissatisfied with the status quo. | 我认为共同点是人们,出于一个很好的理由,对现状深感不满. |
| 42 | And they're looking for candidates of middle left right that were willing to challenge the status quo, | 他们正在寻找中左翼的候选人 他们愿意挑战现状 |
| 43 | that have bold ideas for how to move the country forward, for addressing what I think is the central challenge facing the country. | 他们对于如何推动国家前进,对于解决我认为国家面临的中心挑战,有大胆的想法。 |
| 44 | And that is that people are working hard and they still can't get by. | 这就是人们在努力工作,他们仍然无法生存。 |
| 45 | And candidates that have an answer to what needs to be done about that are doing very well. | 而那些能回答需要为此做些什么的候选人正在做得很好。 |
| 46 | Those that don't or seem to be incrementalist in nature are not doing very well. | 那些在性质上没有或似乎有增量主义倾向的人表现不好. |
| 47 | And to me, that is really the common denominator. | 对我来说,这确实是共同标准。 |
| 48 | Well, it's interesting to have this conversation in California because we've seen this insurgent left rise in swing states like Michigan and Wisconsin. | 嗯,有趣的是,在加利福尼亚有这种对话 因为我们已经看到这个叛乱者 左升在摇摆州,如密歇根州和威斯康辛州。 |
| 49 | Of course, New York, which is a blue state. | 当然,纽约,这是一个蓝色的州。 |
| 50 | But in California, which I think for a lot of folks both that live here and that look from the outside in is such a bastion of progressivism. | 但是在加利福尼亚,我认为,对很多住在这里的人来说 和从外面看都是进步主义的堡垒。 |
| 51 | And yet in this moment where there is this debate and this turn to the left among parts of the party, that hasn't really happened here. | 然而,在这场辩论的这一刻, 在党内各部分之间, 转向左边, 这并没有真正发生。 |
| 52 | The blue estate in the country seems actually to be running kind of in the opposite direction of some of the country's most covered progressive breakthroughs. | 这个国家的蓝色庄园实际上似乎正朝着相反的方向运行,这与该国一些最受欢迎的渐进性突破相反。 |
| 53 | Do you think that Democratic voters here have been resistant to that for some reason? | 你认为这里的民主党选民出于某种原因对此进行了抵制吗? |
| 54 | And why do you think that is? | 为什么你认为是? |
| 55 | I don't think that California's have been resistant to that. | 我认为加州对此没有抵抗力. |
| 56 | I do think in all of these races that the quality of the candidate matters. | 在所有这些比赛中,我确实认为候选人的质量很重要。 |
| 57 | And some candidates are really able to inspire people and project an idea of change. | 而一些候选人确实能够激励人们, 并投射一个改变的想法。 |
| 58 | And that may look very different. | 这可能看起来很不一样。 |
| 59 | I think Mayor Lurie in San Francisco, Mayor Mahan in San Jose, both doing an excellent job, very different styles in other cities. | 我认为旧金山的卢里市长,圣何塞的马汉市长,都做了出色的工作,在其他城市的风格非常不同. |
| 60 | But the quality of those candidates, the quality of the argument that they make for their agenda resonates. | 但是,这些候选人的质量,他们为其议程提出的论据的质量,都引起了共鸣。 |
| 61 | And I think you find others that are very charismatic. | 我认为你发现其他人 是非常有魅力的。 |
| 62 | Mayor Mamdani, for example, who made a powerful case when he was running for mayor and is a hugely charismatic candidate. | 例如,马姆达尼市长在竞选市长时提出有力诉讼,他是一个很有魅力的候选人。 |
| 63 | Doesn't hurt that he's young and good looking. | 他年轻又英俊 并不伤人 |
| 64 | So I'm working on both of those things. | 所以我在研究这两件事 |
| 65 | Even President Trump agrees with you on that. | 连川普总统也同意你的看法。 |
| 66 | Well, the president I agree on so much. | 我非常同意总统的意见 |
| 67 | You made that so clear, Senator. | 你说得很清楚,参议员 |
| 68 | But let me ask you, you know, I spoke with Speaker Mike Johnson for the conversation last week. | 但让我问你,你知道, 我与议长迈克・约翰逊 上周的对话。 |
| 69 | I'm sorry to hear that. | 叹曰. |
| 70 | We were in Arizona and I also followed him around on the campaign trail. | 我们在亚利桑那州 我也跟着他跑步 |
| 71 | And he is making the case to voters using characters like Mamdani, like Al Sayed, to say that the Democratic Party has been taken over by Marxists. | 他用像马姆达尼这样的人物,像阿尔·赛义德来向选民说明,民主党已被马克思主义者接管。 |
| 72 | Do you think those kinds of politicians and candidates in the party do present a liability for the midterms? | 你觉得党内那些政客和候选人 是否确实对中期计划负有责任? |
| 73 | I don't think that argument is going to work. | 我觉得这种争论不会成功 |
| 74 | First of all, it's a retread. | 先是复诵. |
| 75 | They tried this argument several years ago. | 他们几年前尝试过这个论点。 |
| 76 | They had some success with it in places like Florida and South Texas by claiming that all Democrats are socialists. | 在佛罗里达州和南德克萨斯州等地,他们通过声称所有民主党人都是社会主义者而取得了一定的成功. |
| 77 | But now you have Democrats that actually self-identify as Democratic socialists and have plenty of positions that they've held in the past, some of which they've walked away from now, but that Republicans are able to grab and weaponize. | 但现在你们有民主党人,他们实际上自我认同为民主社会主义者,并拥有他们过去担任过的许多职务,有些是他们从现在走开的,但是共和党人能够抓住和武器化. |
| 78 | I don't think it's going to be successful for a different reason, though. | 虽有异故不思议圆满. |
| 79 | And that is they are now the status quo. | 这就是现在的现状。 |
| 80 | And I don't mean the DSA candidates. | 我指的不是DSA候选人 |
| 81 | Donald Trump, Mike Johnson represent a ugly status quo, a status quo in which people can't afford the price of gasoline. | 唐纳德·特朗普,迈克·约翰逊代表了一种丑陋的现状,一种人们无法承受汽油价格的现状. |
| 82 | They can't afford the price of housing. | 他们付不起房价 |
| 83 | They can't afford child care. | 他们负担不起育儿费用。 |
| 84 | We're involved in yet another foreign war that the president doesn't know what to do about. | 我们又卷入了一场总统不知所措的外国战争. |
| 85 | They are the status quo. | 它们是现状。 |
| 86 | And much as they try to change the topic and make a handful of Democrats the subject, I don't think it's going to work. | 当他们试图改变话题 让少数民主党人成为主题时, 我觉得这行不通。 |
| 87 | Because people are asking themselves, is my life better? | 因为人们在自问 我的生活会更好吗? |
| 88 | Did the president or Republicans keep their word? | 总统或共和党遵守诺言了吗? |
| 89 | And the answer is no. | 而答无. |
| 90 | The president promised he would keep us out of foreign wars. | 总统保证会让我们远离外战 |
| 91 | He promised he would address rising prices. | 他答应会解决价格上涨的问题。 |
| 92 | And what has he done? | 他做了什麽? |
| 93 | In addition to getting us involved in this terrible war, he has told the country that the cost of living affordability is a hoax. | 除了让我们卷入这场可怕的战争之外,他还告诉国家,生活负担费用是一种骗局. |
| 94 | He has literally told the country. | 他告诉了这个国家 |
| 95 | He thinks that housing is so unimportant. | 他认为,住房是如此不重要。 |
| 96 | So he's so offended that a reporter would ask him about inflation when he's got much more pressing business with the ballroom. | 所以他非常生气,一个记者在和舞厅有更紧迫的生意时会问他通货膨胀问题. |
| 97 | He's building a golden ballroom while people are struggling to get by. | 他正在建造一个金色的舞厅 而人们却在挣扎着通过。 |
| 98 | I don't think you can change the topic from that. | 我不认为你能改变话题 从这一点。 |
| 99 | So I don't think Mike Johnson is going to be successful. | 所以我觉得迈克·约翰逊不会成功 |
| 100 | They don't have anything else to offer. | 他们没有其他东西可以提供。 |
| 101 | They certainly don't have any prescription for what to do about the economy. | 他们肯定没有任何处方 对于经济做什么。 |
| 102 | So they will do the best they can. | 所以他们会尽力而为 |
| 103 | But it is up to us to always bring it back to the economy. | 但是,我们有责任始终恢复经济。 |
| 104 | Well, and you have your anti Trump spiel on lock. | 还有你反特朗普的口音 |
| 105 | I will give you that. | 我会给你这个。 |
| 106 | But I do think Democrats have some hurdles. | 但我确实认为民主党有一些障碍。 |
| 107 | I want to ask you about these comments that Congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez made when she was asked about some of the far left rhetoric that dominated the party around 2019 and 2020. | 我想问你一下,当她被问到2019年和2020年左右党内主导党内的一些极左派言论时,女国会议员亚历山大·奥卡西奥-科尔特斯所作的这些评论。 |
| 108 | She kind of laughed it off and said that that was, quote, woke 1.0 was crazy, she said. | 她笑了一下,说,这是,引用, 醒来1.0是疯了,她说。 |
| 109 | The debate is obviously a major tension within the party of how to sort of reckon with those years. | 这场辩论显然是党内如何看待这些年的一大矛盾。 |
| 110 | What do you make of the woke one was crazy comments? | 你对那个被吵醒的人有什么看法? |
| 111 | You know, I'm not sure that I understand the context of it. | 你知道,我不知道 我理解它的背景。 |
| 112 | I will say this about AOC, who I consider a friend. | 我要说关于阿拉伯石油公司,我认为他是一个朋友。 |
| 113 | I think she's hugely talented. | 我觉得她很有才华 |
| 114 | And every time I see the Republicans go after her, she ends up handing them their head on a platter. | 每当我看到共和党人去追她时 她就把头放在盘子上 |
| 115 | I think she speaks in a way that millions of young people understand and identify with. | 我想她说话的方式 是数百万年轻人 理解和认同。 |
| 116 | And we desperately need that in our party. | 我们党里迫切需要这个 |
| 117 | There's a whole generation of Americans that look at the life their parents had and they think it's better than what they have. | 有整整一代美国人 看着他们父母的生活 他们认为这比他们拥有的更好。 |
| 118 | They wonder if they'll ever own a home. | 他们不知道他们会不会有家 |
| 119 | The year that I was born, the average new home buyer was 28 years old. | 在我出生的那年, 平均新买家是28岁。 |
| 120 | Now it's 40. | 现在四十岁了 |
| 121 | And I think that they can continue attacking her. | 我认为他们可以继续攻击她 |
| 122 | I hope that they continue to think that's a good strategy. | 我希望他们继续认为这是个好策略. |
| 123 | I think it's not a winning strategy. | 我认为这不是一个赢的策略。 |
| 124 | And I'm glad we have people in our party that are able to speak to a younger generation. | 我很高兴我们党里有人 能和年轻一代交谈 |
| 125 | But why do you think that the Democratic brand has gotten to this place of toxicity, | 但你为什么认为民主党的品牌 已经到了这个有毒的地方, |
| 126 | where even in polls where the president's approval ratings are at record lows, Democrats are still even below that? | 即便在民意测验中 总统的批准率也创下历史新低 民主党人也依然低于这个水平 |
| 127 | Well, I think there's sadly good reason for that, | 嗯,我觉得有 可悲的好理由, |
| 128 | because the failure to address some of the fundamental problems in the economy has been a bipartisan failing. | 因为未能解决经济中的一些根本问题,是两党的失败. |
| 129 | It has been something, frankly, that has been in process for probably the last 30 to 35 years. | 坦率地说,过去30至35年来,这项工作一直在进行。 |
| 130 | As we have seen the productivity in the country continue to improve, the country generate enormous wealth. | 正如我们所看到的那样,该国的生产力继续提高,该国创造了巨大的财富。 |
| 131 | What we have seen for the first time in our history since the 1970s is that as productivity goes up, | 自1970年代以来,我们有史以来第一次看到的是,随着生产力的提高, |
| 132 | historically wages and incomes went up with it. | 历史上,工资和收入也随之上升。 |
| 133 | The people who made that prosperity possible also prospered. | 使这种繁荣成为可能的人们也实现了繁荣。 |
| 134 | But beginning in the 70s, those lines started to diverge. | 但从70年代开始,这些线开始出现分歧。 |
| 135 | They diverged under Democratic presidents and Congresses, and they did under Republican presidents and Congresses. | 在民主党总统和国会领导下,他们出现了分歧,在共和党总统和国会领导下,他们也有分歧。 |
| 136 | Both parties have failed to do anything meaningful about it. | 双方都没有对此采取任何有意义的行动。 |
| 137 | So there's good reason, sadly, for the public to distrust both parties. | 因此,可悲的是,公众有理由不信任双方。 |
| 138 | And for my party, that means we're going to have to work to win that trust back. | 对于我的党,这意味着我们得努力 赢得信任回来。 |
| 139 | We're going to have to be proposing things that are bold. | 我们必须提出大胆的建议。 |
| 140 | It is going to be completely inadequate to say, well, if you elect Democrats, | 如果选举民主党人的话, |
| 141 | we will take you back to the status quo before Donald Trump. | 我们会带你回到唐纳德·特朗普之前的现状 |
| 142 | If you elect Democrats, if our argument is if you elect Democrats, we will restore ACA premium tax credits. | 如果你选举民主党,如果我们的论点是 如果你选举民主党, 我们将恢复ACA 溢价税抵免。 |
| 143 | And that's all we have to say. | 我们只能这么说了 |
| 144 | That is a losing message. | 这是一个失败的信息。 |
| 145 | And yes, we should do that. | 是的,我们应该这样做。 |
| 146 | But we should also go well beyond that for things like Medicare for all. | 但对于像全民医疗计划这样的事情,我们也应该更进一步。 |
| 147 | And I think we should take some note of what the Republicans have been able to do. | 我想我们应该注意一下共和党人能做的 |
| 148 | And that is they have moved the country far and fast in a terrible direction. | 这就是他们把国家推向了一个可怕的方向。 |
| 149 | But we can move the country far and fast in a good direction. | 但是,我们可以把国家向一个良好的方向前进。 |
| 150 | Do you think then maybe more mainstream establishment Democrats might also need to take more note | 你觉得也许更多的主流机构 民主党人也需要多注意 |
| 151 | of what these insurgent left candidates are doing and the energy and momentum that's behind them? | 这些反叛者候选人正在做什么 以及他们背后的能量和动力? |
| 152 | I mean, when I watch, I remember what happened around Trump in 2015 and 2016 | 我的意思是,当我看, 我记得在2015年和2016年 在特朗普周围发生的事情 |
| 153 | when a lot of Republicans said, no way, I'm keeping distance from this guy. | 当很多共和党人说,不可能, 我和这家伙保持距离。 |
| 154 | There's no way this is going to go anywhere good. | 这不可能有好结果 |
| 155 | And then he dominated the party for the next decade. | 之后他又在接下来的十年中主导了党的工作. |
| 156 | Do you see some of that grassroots energy? | 你看到一些基层的能量吗? |
| 157 | And is that something that Democrats need to work to capitalize on? | 民主党需要利用这个吗? |
| 158 | We certainly need to capitalize and develop and cultivate energy among our grassroots. | 我们当然需要利用、开发和培育我们基层的能源。 |
| 159 | But I think the common denominator with Trump's victory and Mamdani's victory is the same. | 但我认为特朗普的胜利和马姆达尼的胜利的共同点是一样的. |
| 160 | And that is both vigorously challenged a deeply unpopular status quo. | 这两方面都强烈挑战着一种非常不受欢迎的现状。 |
| 161 | Trump promised to break everything and he did. | 特朗普承诺打破一切,他做到了. |
| 162 | And that obviously is not the right answer. | 这显然不是正确的答案。 |
| 163 | But nor is it the right answer to say we're just going to go back to the way it was. | 但是说我们要回到原来的样子也不是正确的答案。 |
| 164 | We have to do new things. | 我们必须做新的事情。 |
| 165 | I think we need a period like we saw with Franklin Roosevelt | 我想我们需要像富兰克林·罗斯福那样的时期 |
| 166 | where a Democratic administration and Congress is willing to experiment, | 民主政府和国会愿意尝试 |
| 167 | to try new big things, to make the economy work for people again. | 尝试新的大事, 使经济再次为人们服务。 |
| 168 | We should be building vast quantities of housing to bring housing costs down. | 我们应该建造大量住房,降低住房成本。 |
| 169 | We did that after World War II for returning GIs. | 二战结束后,我们为了归还地产而这样做。 |
| 170 | We did it affordably. | 我们做它付得起。 |
| 171 | There's no reason we can't do that again in this country. | 我们没有理由不能再这样做 在这个国家。 |
| 172 | We need to think big. | 我们得好好想想 |
| 173 | And I think whether you're a mainstream candidate or you're on the left, | 我觉得你是主流候选人还是左翼 |
| 174 | if you're thinking small and you're thinking incremental, it's just not going to cut it. | 如果你想的是小而你想的是渐进的, 它只是不会削减它。 |
| 175 | Well, it's interesting because California has sort of run the progressive experiment in the past. | 这很有趣,因为加州过去也做过进步实验。 |
| 176 | I'm talking during that sort of 2020 era where you had progressive DAs in places like LA and California, | 我说的是在2020年的时代 你曾经在洛杉矶和加利福尼亚州 拥有进步检察官 |
| 177 | progressive mayors, and that experiment didn't go the way I think those folks are hoping for. | 进步的市长, 和这个实验没有走 的方式,我想这些人希望。 |
| 178 | There were recalls. | 有回忆 |
| 179 | There was a lot of frustration about increases in crime. | 人们对犯罪增加感到非常沮丧。 |
| 180 | I mean, what do you think that this slate of progressive candidates should take away from what California saw | 我的意思是,你认为 这一系列进步候选人 应该从加州看到 |
| 181 | on the sort of backlash to a move to the far left? | 在那种反弹 移动到最左边? |
| 182 | I think all of us in the Democratic Party, wherever we are on the spectrum from left to right and center, | 我认为我们民主党的所有人, 无论我们身处从左到右和中, |
| 183 | need to keep first and foremost what most Americans really have on their minds, | 首先需要保持 大部分美国人真正拥有的, |
| 184 | and that is they're working their ass off and they're still struggling to get by. | 他们正在拼命工作 仍然在挣扎着过日子 |
| 185 | They feel very little security in their retirement. | 他们退休后感觉没有什么安全感。 |
| 186 | They are afraid of getting sick because their health insurance isn't going to cut it. | 他们害怕生病 因为他们的医疗保险不会削减。 |
| 187 | They are terrified. | 他们很害怕。 |
| 188 | I remember talking with a young woman in the north of the state who told me she got a good education | 我记得我和州北部的一位年轻女子谈过 她告诉我她受过良好的教育 |
| 189 | because she was told she should. | 因为她被告知她应该。 |
| 190 | She got a lot of good debt along with it, and between her loan payments and her rent and her health insurance, | 她还欠了很多好债 还有她的贷款 房租和医疗保险 |
| 191 | she had nothing set aside and nothing to set aside, and she was petrified. | 她一无所有,一无所有 她被吓坏了 |
| 192 | And I think she was speaking for millions and millions of young people and people who are not so young. | 我想她代表着数百万年轻人 和那些不那么年轻的人。 |
| 193 | And it is not, in my view, the fault of changes in technology, and we are in the midst of another transformation. | 在我看来,这不是技术变革的过错,我们正处于另一个转变之中。 |
| 194 | I think it is the fault of policymakers that we have not adapted to a workplace | 我认为,我们没有适应工作场所是决策者的错。 |
| 195 | that is so different than the workplace my parents worked in, | 跟我爸妈在工作的地方不一样 |
| 196 | where so many people stayed with the same company their whole career and had health care and retirement through their work. | 很多人在同一个公司呆在一起 他们的整个职业生涯 通过工作得到保健和退休。 |
| 197 | And we're going to have to, with the advent of AI, think even more broadly now about how do we ensure | 随着AI的到来,我们现在必须 更加广泛地思考如何确保 |
| 198 | that people have gained full employment and dignified employment and secure retirement? | 是否使人民获得充分就业和体面就业并确保退休? |
| 199 | What does that look like in the era of AI and globalization and automation? | 在AI和全球化与自动化的时代,这看起来像什么? |
| 200 | So this is, I think, going to be the cardinal challenge for both parties, | 因此,我认为,这将是双方的主要挑战, |
| 201 | and I'd like to see the Democratic Party leading the way. | 我希望看到民主党 领导的道路。 |
| 202 | Well, you talk about big new things. | 好吧,你谈论重大的新事物。 |
| 203 | California has a billionaire tax on the ballot in November. | 加利福尼亚州在11月的选票上有亿万富翁税. |
| 204 | It would impose a one-time 5% tax on the wealth of Californians worth more than $1 billion. | 它会对加州富人征收一次性5%的税,税额超过10亿美元. |
| 205 | Now, Governor Newsom and gubernatorial candidate Becerra don't support it, but the state party does. | 现在,州长Newsom和省长候选人Becerra不支持,但州党支持. |
| 206 | Do you support the tax? | 你支持纳税吗? |
| 207 | I haven't gotten involved in that ballot measure, and I don't get involved in most ballot measures. | 我没有参与过投票措施,也没有参与大多数投票措施. |
| 208 | Well, to be fair, you are a California voter, so folks want to know how you might vote. | 公平地说,你是一个加州选民, 所以人们想知道你如何投票。 |
| 209 | I am a California voter, but I am a U.S. | 我是加州的选民 但我是美国人 |
| 210 | Senator, and I'm more focused, frankly, on the federal legislation | 参议员,我更专注于联邦立法 |
| 211 | to try to create a more progressive tax system. | 试图建立一个更累进的税收制度。 |
| 212 | So you won't say how you'll vote? | 所以你不说怎么投票? |
| 213 | I haven't decided, frankly, how I'm going to vote. | 老实说,我还没决定怎么投票 |
| 214 | And what I am focused on, though, is in addition to supporting any number of proposals | 然而,我所侧重的是,除了支持任何建议之外, |
| 215 | to make sure that people can't simply borrow against their assets and avoid paying taxes | 确保人们不能靠资产借款 避免纳税 |
| 216 | or pay those that are multi-multi-billionaires, pay a lower tax rate than all the people who work for them, | 或向亿万富翁支付比他们工作的人还低的税率, |
| 217 | I am trying to put together a comprehensive and progressive tax reform package | 我正在努力制定一套全面、渐进的税收改革计划 |
| 218 | that I would like to see if I can somehow inject into the presidential debate | 我想看看我能不能给总统辩论注入点活力 |
| 219 | that addresses this phenomenal concentration of wealth now. | 这解决了现在财富的惊人集中。 |
| 220 | But there are a lot of Democrats that would like to see something like this billionaire tax at the federal level, | 但有很多民主党人 希望在联邦一级 见到这种富豪税, |
| 221 | and I wonder how you'd respond to voters that hear you kind of hedging there and say, | 我想知道你如何回应 选民听到你 那种套在那边说, |
| 222 | well, the establishment Democrats are still more worried about protecting the wealthy than taking bold action. | 机构民主党人更担心保护富人 而不是采取大胆的行动 |
| 223 | When you talk about big new things, is this just not the direction you think those big new things should go? | 当你谈论重大的新事物, 难道这不是你认为这些重大的新事物应该走的方向吗? |
| 224 | No, I support a wealth tax at the federal level, and I support taxing capital gains different than we tax capital gains. | 不,我支持在联邦一级征收财富税 我支持对资本收益征税 不同于我们对资本收益征税 |
| 225 | I'm just surprised it's a hard answer for you on this one, on the ballot measure here. | 我只是惊讶的是,这是一个很难 答案在这个,在这里的投票措施。 |
| 226 | Well, it has pros and cons. | 嗯,它有利弊。 |
| 227 | I mean, I don't think it's an easy answer when it comes to each state developing a one-time only tax. | 我的意思是,我不认为这是一个容易的答案 当涉及到每一个州 制定一次性的唯一税。 |
| 228 | And what is the impact on business in the state? | 对州内的生意有什么影响? |
| 229 | What's the impact on people who need health care services that are going to be cut otherwise? | 对需要医疗服务的人有什么影响? 否则会减少服务? |
| 230 | It's not an easy question. | 问不易. |
| 231 | And frankly, I've got enough difficult questions at the federal level. | 坦白地说,我在联邦一级已经有很多难题了 |
| 232 | But one thing that is not difficult for me, and that is there should be a wealth tax at the federal level. | 但有一件事对我来说并不困难,那就是在联邦一级应该有财富税. |
| 233 | There should be a much more progressive tax code than the one we have. | 应该有一个比我们有的更进步的税法。 |
| 234 | And one thing that has become so abundantly clear is this concentration of wealth we see now is operating to perpetuate itself. | 已经非常清楚的一件事是,我们现在所看到的财富的集中正在使自己永久化。 |
| 235 | And you have individuals now that have such a massive say in our electoral process that they can pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a single campaign if they choose to. | 你们现在有个人 在我们的选举进程中有如此庞大的发言权, 他们可以把数亿美元投入一个单一的竞选中,如果他们愿意的话。 |
| 236 | We have a broken campaign finance system that allows them to do that. | 我们有一个崩溃的竞选财务系统 允许他们这样做。 |
| 237 | And I think if we don't bring determination to solving that problem also, this income inequality, wealth inequality gap is just going to get worse. | 我认为如果我们不拿出决心来解决这个问题, 这种收入不平等, 财富不平等的差距就会恶化。 |
| 238 | And it is, I also think, deeply destabilizing the combination of the disruption of the workforce through AI, the vast concentration and the arrogant use of wealth by some who have amassed it, is going to be hugely disruptive for society. | 而且,我还认为,通过人工智能对劳动力的破坏、大规模集中和一些集资者对财富的傲慢利用,这些综合起来,将给社会带来极大的破坏。 |
| 239 | It's bad economics. | 经济不景气. |
| 240 | I think it's immoral. | 我觉得不道德 |
| 241 | And I'm working on federal solutions to try to address that. | 我正在研究联邦解决方案 试图解决这个问题。 |
| 242 | I do want to ask about another debate playing out within the Democratic Party, and we've seen a lot of shifts on this, is about Israel and the U.S. relationship with that country. | 我想问一问民主党内部还有一场辩论 我们看到很多转变 是关于以色列和美国的关系 |
| 243 | You know, you've sharpened your criticism of Netanyahu considerably since 2024, but you did still vote against blocking offensive arms sales to Israel. | 从2024年起你对内塔尼亚胡的批评就更加尖锐了 但你还是投票反对阻止向以色列出售进攻性武器 |
| 244 | What has changed in your views on Israel and what hasn't? | 你对以色列的看法有什么改变,哪些没有改变? |
| 245 | Actually, I voted for the joint resolutions of disapproval the last time they came up. | 事实上,我投票支持上次提出的不赞成的联合决议。 |
| 246 | And those joint resolutions of disapproval prevented the sale, or would have prevented the sale if they were successful, of 1,000-pound bombs as well as giant bulldozers. | 这些不赞成的联合决议阻止了1 000磅炸弹和巨型推土机的销售,或者如果它们成功,本会阻止其销售。 |
| 247 | So you're in support of no more arms sales to Israel? | 所以你支持不再向以色列出售军火? |
| 248 | Well, I voted against those sales, and I'm going to take each request individually. | 好吧,我投票反对这些销售, 我会接受每一个请求 单独。 |
| 249 | I support things like the Iron Dome system that are necessary, I think, for Israel's defense. | 我支持铁穹系统之类的东西,我认为,这些系统对于以色列的防御是必要的. |
| 250 | But I am in vehement disagreement with how Netanyahu has run that country, with the conduct of the war in Gaza, with the conduct of the war in Iran and in Lebanon. | 但我强烈不同意内塔尼亚胡如何管理这个国家,在加沙发动战争,在伊朗和黎巴嫩发动战争。 |
| 251 | And I think we have to use the leverage that we have, not only to make sure that we're, first and foremost, doing things that are in the U.S. national interest, but also in the interest of a peaceful resolution of the conflict there. | 我认为我们必须利用我们所拥有的优势, 不仅确保我们首先做符合美国国家利益的事, 而且也是为了和平解决那里的冲突。 |
| 252 | And I start from one ironclad conviction, and that is the only way this gets solved is by having two states side by side living in peace and security. | 我从一个铁定的信念开始,这是唯一能够解决的办法,就是使两个国家和平、安全地毗邻共存。 |
| 253 | And so what I ask myself when I'm making these decisions is, does this help get us there, or is this an impediment? | 所以我在做这些决定时会问自己: 这能帮助我们到达那里吗? 还是说这是个障碍? |
| 254 | And so much of what this government is doing and saying is an impediment to getting to two states that I can't support those policies. | 这个政府所做的和所说的话 都阻碍我进入两个州 我无法支持这些政策 |
| 255 | And so I will make these decisions as they come, but it is heartbreaking to see how Netanyahu has so damaged Israel. | 因此,我将随即作出这些决定,但看到内塔尼亚胡如何如此伤害以色列是令人心碎的。 |
| 256 | It's standing in the world and the loss of life as a result. | 其立于天下,亦因之而损人. |
| 257 | One of the challenges, one of the challenges within this debate is there is also a large concern around anti-Semitism. | 本次辩论的挑战之一是反犹太主义问题。 |
| 258 | Do you believe that there's an anti-Semitism problem on the left? | 你相信左边有反犹太主义的问题吗? |
| 259 | Well, I think there is an anti-Semitism problem across the board. | 我觉得有反犹太主义的问题 |
| 260 | And yes, some of it is on the left, and some of it is very plainly on the right, and some of it is probably in the middle. | 是的,有些在左边,有些在右边,有些可能在中间。 |
| 261 | I called the rabbi at a synagogue recently to express my alarm and upset over the fact that someone had painted swastikas on the synagogue. | 我最近打电话给犹太会堂的拉比,以表达我的震惊,并对有人在犹太会堂上画了瓦斯蒂卡斯而感到不安。 |
| 262 | And the rabbi said, do you realize, Senator, this is the second time you've called me for this reason? | 拉比说 你意识到吗 参议员 这是你第二次给我打电话 |
| 263 | And he was right. | 他说得对 |
| 264 | I make those calls so often I'd forgotten that I had called him once before for the same reason. | 我经常打这些电话,我忘了我以前打过一次电话 也是因为这个原因 |
| 265 | And I'm in a chat with a number of Jewish members. | 我在跟一些犹太成员聊天 |
| 266 | We share what's happening in our states, in our districts, and not a day, not a week goes by where we don't see some new horror. | 我们分享我们各州,我们地区发生的一切, 而不是一天,一个星期,我们看不到新的恐怖。 |
| 267 | I've never seen anything like it in scale and scope. | 在规模和范围上,我从未见过这样的事情. |
| 268 | And it's awful, and we need to be able to talk about it. | 它的可怕, 我们需要能够谈论它。 |
| 269 | You can agree or disagree with what the Israeli government is doing, and that is a separate conversation. | 你可以同意或不同意以色列政府正在做的事,这是一次单独的谈话。 |
| 270 | But we have a serious anti-Semitism problem in this country and around the world that cannot be ignored. | 但是,我国和全世界存在着严重的反犹太主义问题,不容忽视。 |
| 271 | So I obviously feel strongly about that because I experienced it myself. | 所以我显然对此有强烈的感受 因为我亲身经历过 |
| 272 | One of the other parts of this debate is the role of AIPAC in campaign spending. | 本次辩论的其他部分之一是AIPAC在竞选支出中的作用. |
| 273 | I know you have in the past accepted money from AIPAC and pro-Israel lobby support throughout your career. | 我知道你过去从AIPAC接受过钱 并在整个职业生涯中支持以色列游说 |
| 274 | Will you continue to do so? | 你会继续这样做吗? |
| 275 | It will depend. | 这要看情况 |
| 276 | First and foremost, I make my decisions based on what I think is right for the region, but mostly for the country, our country. | 首先,我根据我认为对该地区,但主要是对我国来说是合适的,来作出决定。 |
| 277 | At times that has been very different than AIPAC's view. | 有时这和AIPAC的观点有很大不同. |
| 278 | I was a strong supporter of the JCPOA. | 我是JCPOA的坚定支持者. |
| 279 | I disagreed with AIPAC on these recent arms sales. | 我不同意AIPAC最近出售军火的说法。 |
| 280 | At other times we were in agreement, as we were right after October 7th, when Hamas raped, murdered, and butchered over a thousand Israelis, mostly civilians. | 在另一些时候,我们达成了一致,就像10月7日之后,哈马斯强奸、谋杀和屠杀了一千多名以色列人,主要是平民。 |
| 281 | So I'm going to continue to make the decisions I make and allow individuals and organizations to decide what to do with that, | 所以我要继续做决定 让个人和组织来决定该怎么做 |
| 282 | whether they want to support me or don't want to support me. | 不管他们想支持我 还是不想支持我 |
| 283 | But these issues are just too important to come at it backwards and say, OK, what do I do to gain the support of this or that organization? | 但是,这些问题太重要了,不能倒过来说,好吧,我该怎么办才能得到这个或那个组织的支持? |
| 284 | I'm going to make the decision I think is right. | 我要做出我认为正确的决定 |
| 285 | And because for me, I've been fortunate in the past to have support from the Jewish community, the Muslim community, the Christian community. | 而且因为对我来说,我过去有幸得到了犹太社区,穆斯林社区,基督教社区的支持. |
| 286 | And I'm just going to continue to try to make the best call. | 我只是继续尝试 做出最好的决定。 |
| 287 | But you won't say that you don't want to take AIPAC money? | 但你不会说不想收AIPAC的钱? |
| 288 | I'm not going to exclude any person, faith organization. | 我不会排除任何人 信仰组织 |
| 289 | I'm going to make the decisions that I think are best and let the chips fall where they may. | 我要做出我认为最好的决定 让筹码掉到可能的地方 |
| 290 | And I ask because there are Democrats that have taken very different positions on this. | 我之所以问,是因为有些民主党对此采取了非常不同的立场。 |
| 291 | I sat down with Ruben Gallego, your fellow senator a while back, and he was very unequivocal about this issue. | 我和鲁本·加莱戈坐过一阵子 你的同事参议员 他对此很明确 |
| 292 | It's going to be a continuing debate within your party. | 这将会是你们党内持续的辩论. |
| 293 | But I don't want to let you go without asking about twenty twenty eight, which is just around the corner, don't you think, Senator? | 但我不想让你走 不问大约28,这 就在拐角处,你不觉得吗,参议员? |
| 294 | I don't know. | 师曰. |
| 295 | I'm still very focused on twenty twenty six. | 我仍然非常专注于26。 |
| 296 | We have a super important midterm coming up. | 我们有一个超级重要的中期。 |
| 297 | It turns midterm. | 它变成中期。 |
| 298 | No, midterms are very important. | 不,中期很重要。 |
| 299 | But it is funny because California, you've got Gavin Newsom, you've got Kamala Harris from here, you have Rokana. | 但是这很有趣,因为加利福尼亚州,你有加文・纽森, 你有卡马拉・哈里斯 从这里,你有罗卡纳。 |
| 300 | I mean, it is a state that has been producing a number of potential candidates. | 我的意思是,这个国家一直在产生一些潜在的候选人。 |
| 301 | I know you're not going to like come out here and endorse anyone right now. | 我知道你不会喜欢来这里 认可任何人现在。 |
| 302 | But when you think about the mold for for twenty eight, what do you think that candidate will need to bring, will need to do? | 但当你想到28年的模具, 你觉得那个候选人需要带来什么,需要做什么? |
| 303 | Do they look more like Mom, Donnie? | 他们看起来更像妈妈吗,唐尼? |
| 304 | Do they look more like Javier Becerra? | 他们看起来更像哈维尔·贝塞拉吗? |
| 305 | And by look, I mean in the style of politics and campaigning. | 看样子,我是指政治和竞选的风格。 |
| 306 | What I am really hoping for, what I'm really counting on, because this is such an existential moment for our country, for our democracy, is to see what happened when Barack Obama burst on the scene. | 我真正希望的,我真正指望的, 因为对于我们的国家, 对于我们的民主来说, 这是一个如此存在的时刻, 就是当巴拉克·奥巴马在现场爆发时会发生什么. |
| 307 | We didn't know that Barack Obama was going to be Barack Obama until he became Barack Obama. | 我们不知道巴拉克·奥巴马会成为巴拉克·奥巴马,直到他成为巴拉克·奥巴马. |
| 308 | I would say we didn't know that Bill Clinton was going to be Bill Clinton until he emerged. | 我会说,我们不知道 比尔·克林顿将是比尔·克林顿 直到他出现。 |
| 309 | I don't know who that person is going to be, but we desperately need someone who catches the interest, excitement, enthusiasm and hope of the Democratic Party. | 我不知道那个人会是谁 但我们迫切需要一个能 感受到民主党的兴趣、兴奋、热情和希望的人 |
| 310 | That's what I'm going to be looking for, who can capture that kind of moment, who rises to the occasion. | 这就是我要寻找的,谁能抓住那种时刻,谁能挺身而出. |
| 311 | And even if I thought I knew who that was today and I don't know who that is today, it may be a very different person six months or a year from now. | 即使我以为我知道今天是谁, 我不知道今天是谁, 也可能是一个非常不同的人 六个月或一年以后。 |
| 312 | So I'm going to be looking, who is that person? | 所以我要看看 那人是谁? |
| 313 | And I do think Democratic voters, much as they can be maligned, are very pragmatic. | 我确实认为,民主选民,尽管他们可以受到诽谤,但非常务实。 |
| 314 | They want someone who can win. | 他们想要一个能赢的人 |
| 315 | And they know the stakes now more than anything. | 他们现在比什么都清楚了 |
| 316 | And even though you didn't invite me to talk about the midterms, I do want to say this. | 尽管你没有邀请我谈中期报告,我还是想说这个。 |
| 317 | Well, I was just going to ask, do Democrats take the Senate? | 我只是想问一下,民主党人会接受参议院吗? |
| 318 | I think we have multiple pathways now to take the Senate. | 我想我们现在有多种途径可以走参议院。 |
| 319 | And this was unthinkable a year ago, but we are tighter ahead in Alaska, Ohio, North Carolina, Iowa, Maine, Texas. | 这在一年前是无法想象的 但我们在阿拉斯加 俄亥俄州 北卡罗莱纳州 爱荷华州 缅因州 德克萨斯州都走得更近了 |
| 320 | We are narrowly down in Florida, in Mississippi even, and other states that are emerging. | 我们在佛罗里达州,甚至密西西比州, 以及其他正在兴起的州。 |
| 321 | This is, I think, shaping up to be one of those wave elections in which you wake up the day after election day and you're like, did you see some guy named John Tester won in Montana? | 我认为,这是一场浪潮选举, 在选举日的第二天你醒来,你喜欢, 你看到一个叫约翰·特斯特的人在蒙大拿州获胜吗? |
| 322 | Who is John Tester? | 约翰·特瑟是谁? |
| 323 | There are going to be, I think, a lot of moments like that the day after the election when Americans wake up and they find out there are a lot more Democrats in the Senate than we were expecting. | 我认为,在大选后的第二天, 美国人醒来,他们发现参议院的民主党人比我们预期的要多很多。 |
| 324 | And since you've been asking about the Middle East, let me just say inshallah. | 既然你一直在问中东的事 让我直说吧 |
| 325 | I think that's a great way to end it. | 我觉得这是结束这一切的好办法 |
| 326 | Thank you so much, Senator Adam Schiff. | 非常感谢,参议员亚当·希夫 |
| 327 | We appreciate your time. | 我们很感激你的时间。 |
| 328 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
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