纽约时报专访：塔克·卡尔森到底相信什么(下) | 2026.
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:02 | I'm going to move on because we've talked about some fissures that have emerged among | 我要继续前行 因为我们谈过一些裂缝 |
| 0:08 | conservatives over Israel in the war, right? | 保守派在战争中战胜以色列,对吧? |
| 0:11 | You've talked about- | 你说过... |
| 0:11 | Fissures, yeah. | 费苏斯,是的。 |
| 0:12 | It's sort of blown up. | 有点被炸了 |
| 0:13 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 0:14 | And I want to dig into that because earlier this year, you told Megyn Kelly that there | 我想调查一下 因为今年早些时候 你告诉梅金·凯利 |
| 0:18 | is, quote, a huge scramble and you said, I'm in the middle of it to define what the Republican | 引用一句,一个巨大的混乱 而你说, 我在中间 以定义什么共和党 |
| 0:22 | Party is after Trump. | 党追特朗普. |
| 0:23 | Yep. | 对 |
展开字幕全文（93 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | I'm going to move on because we've talked about some fissures that have emerged among | 我要继续前行 因为我们谈过一些裂缝 |
| 2 | conservatives over Israel in the war, right? | 保守派在战争中战胜以色列,对吧? |
| 3 | You've talked about- | 你说过... |
| 4 | Fissures, yeah. | 费苏斯,是的。 |
| 5 | It's sort of blown up. | 有点被炸了 |
| 6 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 7 | And I want to dig into that because earlier this year, you told Megyn Kelly that there | 我想调查一下 因为今年早些时候 你告诉梅金·凯利 |
| 8 | is, quote, a huge scramble and you said, I'm in the middle of it to define what the Republican | 引用一句,一个巨大的混乱 而你说, 我在中间 以定义什么共和党 |
| 9 | Party is after Trump. | 党追特朗普. |
| 10 | Yep. | 对 |
| 11 | So boil down the scramble for me. | 故为我沸腾. |
| 12 | Are there two sides? | 有两面吗? |
| 13 | Well, I lost that scramble. | 嗯,我失去了那个摇摆。 |
| 14 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 15 | I mean, is it driven by ideas, personalities, I mean, something else like what do you see | 我的意思是,它是驱动 思想,人格,我的意思是,别的东西 就像你看到的 |
| 16 | happening? | 发生? |
| 17 | Look, I mean, there have been disagreements over foreign policy within the Republican | 共和党内部对外交政策有分歧 |
| 18 | Party for, well, really since 2015 when Trump announced for president, there was no disagreement | 2015年特朗普宣布就任总统后, |
| 19 | at all. | 一点也不 |
| 20 | It was a neoconservative party completely. | 它是一个完全的新保守党。 |
| 21 | I was part of that for sure and unthinkingly and then unwillingly, but whatever. | 我是其中的一部分 肯定和不思考 然后不愿意,但无论如何。 |
| 22 | But since 2015, there's been this kind of debate like, well, you know, what is the appropriate | 但自2015年以来,一直有这种争论 比如,你知道,什么是合适的 |
| 23 | use of American power and what is our relationship with Israel? | 我们与以色列的关系如何? |
| 24 | And those have been sort of Soda Voce debates, but it's only with this full regime change | 这些是苏达沃斯的辩论 但只有彻底改变政权 |
| 25 | effort against Iran that they've become untenable, like you can't, I mean, my own view is I'm | 反对 他们变得站不住脚,就像你无法,我的意思是,我自己的观点是,我 |
| 26 | always happy to eat with and talk with people I disagree with. | 总是很高兴和那些我不同意的人一起吃饭和交谈 |
| 27 | Again, I guess I'm the liberal here, but there is a strong sense among the neocons who've | 再说一遍,我想我是这里的自由主义者, 但是新教徒中有一种强烈的感知 |
| 28 | completely taken over the Republican Party that anyone who disagrees cannot be allowed, | 完全接管了共和党 任何持不同意见的人都不允许 |
| 29 | like literally in the White House. | 就像白宫里一样 |
| 30 | Okay, I don't make these rules. | 好吧,我不制定这些规则。 |
| 31 | I feel sad about it. | 我觉得很伤心 |
| 32 | For a bunch of reasons, I would say as a political matter, the constituency for that is very | 出于一系列原因,我要说,作为一个政治问题,选区非常 |
| 33 | small. | 小一点。 |
| 34 | There aren't, you know, 150 million people in America who are really excited about the | 没有一个,你知道,1.5亿人 美国谁真正兴奋 |
| 35 | Iran war or who are ever going to be excited about that. | 伊朗战争或谁会对此感到兴奋。 |
| 36 | So you're dooming your party to irrelevance when you do that. | 这么说你这么做 会使你的派对失去意义 |
| 37 | I don't know why they would want to. | 我不知道他们为什么要这么做 |
| 38 | They hate Trump. | 他们讨厌特朗普 |
| 39 | The neocons hate Trump. | 新人讨厌特朗普. |
| 40 | I've always hated Trump. | 我一直讨厌特朗普 |
| 41 | I had a first-row seat to this. | 我有一个第一排的座位。 |
| 42 | And now they've destroyed him. | 现在他们毁了他 |
| 43 | And I told them that. | 我告诉他们。 |
| 44 | I said, these are people who hated you from day one. | 我说,这些人从第一天起就恨你 |
| 45 | They couldn't control you. | 他们不能控制你。 |
| 46 | They hated you for that reason. | 他们因此恨你 |
| 47 | What you said about the Iraq war, inflamed them, it humiliated them and they want to | 你所说的伊拉克战争,激怒了他们, 它羞辱了他们,他们想 |
| 48 | you and this war will destroy you. | 你和这场战争会毁了你 |
| 49 | I said that point blank right to him. | 我说,这一点 空白右他。 |
| 50 | And it's true. | 亦复如是. |
| 51 | And it's, I think, proven true now. | 我认为,现在已经证明是真的了。 |
| 52 | And what do you mean about you being in the middle of it and losing the scramble? | 又何谓身在中而失 s? |
| 53 | Well, because Charlie Kirk and I, I think we're the only people confident in saying | 好吧,因为查理・柯克和我, 我认为我们是唯一 有信心说 |
| 54 | we're the only people in June of 2025 to say to the president, this is a very bad idea. | 我们是唯一在2025年6月 对总统说, 这是一个非常糟糕的主意。 |
| 55 | The people pushing this are trying to get you involved in a regime change war. | 推动这场战争的人们 试图让你卷入政权更迭的战争 |
| 56 | You've campaigned against that. | 你已经反对了 |
| 57 | Don't do this. | 别这样 |
| 58 | And then on September 10th, Charlie was murdered by a lone gunman. | 之后在9月10日,查理被一个孤独的枪手谋杀. |
| 59 | So by the time this latest round happened in January and February, I think I was the | 因此,当这最新一轮发生 在1月和2月, 我想我是 |
| 60 | only person who said that to Trump for a bunch of reasons. | 只有一个人对特朗普这么说 原因很多 |
| 61 | So now it's, you know, I mean, we know who won by the effects. | 所以现在,你知道,我的意思是, 我们知道谁赢得了效果。 |
| 62 | So this was, from my perspective, was a debate between people who thought it was wise to | 因此,从我的观点来看, 这是一场辩论 人谁认为明智 |
| 63 | use American power in the way we're now using it and those who thought it was dangerous. | 使用美国的力量 的方式,我们现在使用它 和谁认为它是危险的。 |
| 64 | And Trump did it. | 而特朗普则做到了. |
| 65 | So obviously he rejected my view. | 显然他拒绝了我的观点 |
| 66 | I want to stay, though, with how some of this is playing out, because as you mentioned, | 我想留下来,虽然, 与一些事情是如何发挥出来, 因为正如你提到, |
| 67 | you were very close to Charlie Kirk before he was killed. | 你和查理・柯克很亲近 在他被杀之前 |
| 68 | And he started Turning Point USA, which is this very influential group among young people | 他开始了美国之角 这个在年轻人中非常有影响力的团体 |
| 69 | on the right. | 右边 |
| 70 | And you're now seeing some on the right who are questioning whether Israel had a hand | 现在你正在右边看到一些 质疑以色列是否有手 |
| 71 | in Charlie Kirk's murder. | 在查理·柯克的谋杀案中 |
| 72 | And I should say the theories that Israel was linked to Charlie's death were denied | 我应该说,关于以色列与查理的死有关的理论 被否认了 |
| 73 | by Israel. | 由以色列编写。 |
| 74 | There's been no proof of that at all. | 根本就没有证据 |
| 75 | And crucially, this theory has been condemned by Erica Kirk, Charlie's widow. | 而关键的是,这个理论被查理的遗孀埃丽卡·柯克(Erica Kirk)所谴责. |
| 76 | Do you still have a relationship with Turning Point USA? | 你和"转折点美国"还有关系吗? |
| 77 | Well, I have always loved Erica Kirk. | 我一直爱艾丽卡·柯克 |
| 78 | I met her when she was dating Charlie and thought so much of her. | 我认识她的时候,她正在和查理约会, 觉得她很多。 |
| 79 | I know a lot of people at Turning Point. | 我认识很多人 |
| 80 | I was the headliner for a bunch of different Turning Point events. | 我是一大堆不同的转折点事件的头条人物。 |
| 81 | I haven't been asked to do it this year. | 今年我还没有被要求这么做。 |
| 82 | I don't know if I will be. | 我不知道我会不会是。 |
| 83 | I never said a word against Turning Point. | 我从来没有说过一个字反对转折点。 |
| 84 | I think it's been a really... | 我觉得这真是... |
| 85 | Well, I was their headliner for a bunch of years, so obviously I supported it. | 嗯,我是他们的头条 几年,所以很明显我支持它。 |
| 86 | I would hate to see it hijacked by its donors to become an oracle of neoconservatism. | 我不愿看到它被捐赠者劫持成为新保守主义的神谕。 |
| 87 | I think it'd be pretty hard to do because its members are not for that. | 我认为这样做相当困难,因为其成员不赞成这样做。 |
| 88 | Young people are not for that. | 年轻人不赞成这样做。 |
| 89 | People of draft age are especially not for that. | 年龄适者尤其不适合这样做。 |
| 90 | When was the last time you spoke to Erica Kirk? | 你上次和艾丽卡·柯克说话是什么时候? |
| 91 | A couple of weeks ago, by text. | 几周前,通过文字。 |
| 92 | So, my concern—and this is not about Erica Kirk or Ind bail those people with whom— | 我关心的不是艾丽卡柯克 也不是那些... |
| 93 | So, my concern—and this is not about Erica Kirk or any of those people with whom soon | 所以,我关心的不是艾丽卡・柯克 也不是那些跟他们在一起的人 |
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