深度辩论：川普政策智库与哈佛学院教授 | 2026.9.23
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:03 | Good evening everyone and welcome to the John F. Kennedy jr. Forum at the Institute of politics | 大家晚上好 欢迎来到政治学院的约翰肯尼迪论坛 |
| 0:10 | My name is Mira Sholovar. | 我叫米拉·肖洛瓦尔 |
| 0:12 | I'm a junior at the college and a member of the JFK jr. Forum student committee | 我是大学的初级学生 也是JFK jr的成员 论坛学生委员会 |
| 0:18 | We're so excited to have you here tonight and to be co-hosting this event with the politics of race and ethnicity | 我们很高兴你今晚能来 和种族和民族政治一起主持这个活动 |
| 0:23 | Program at the Institute of politics before we begin | 政治研究所的方案在我们开始之前 |
| 0:27 | please note the exit doors which are located on both the Parkside and | 请注意位于公园边和公园边的出口门。 |
| 0:32 | The JFK street side of the forum in the event of an emergency | 肯尼迪论坛的街道方面在紧急情况下 |
| 0:36 | Please walk to the exit closest to you and congregate in the JFK Park | 请走到离你最近的出口 在肯尼迪公园集合 |
| 0:41 | This program tonight is going to be live-streamed and it will be archived online | 今晚的节目将进行现场直播 将在网上存档 |
| 0:46 | There will also be time for audience Q&A | 观众也会有时间的。 |
展开字幕全文（876 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Good evening everyone and welcome to the John F. Kennedy jr. Forum at the Institute of politics | 大家晚上好 欢迎来到政治学院的约翰肯尼迪论坛 |
| 2 | My name is Mira Sholovar. | 我叫米拉·肖洛瓦尔 |
| 3 | I'm a junior at the college and a member of the JFK jr. Forum student committee | 我是大学的初级学生 也是JFK jr的成员 论坛学生委员会 |
| 4 | We're so excited to have you here tonight and to be co-hosting this event with the politics of race and ethnicity | 我们很高兴你今晚能来 和种族和民族政治一起主持这个活动 |
| 5 | Program at the Institute of politics before we begin | 政治研究所的方案在我们开始之前 |
| 6 | please note the exit doors which are located on both the Parkside and | 请注意位于公园边和公园边的出口门。 |
| 7 | The JFK street side of the forum in the event of an emergency | 肯尼迪论坛的街道方面在紧急情况下 |
| 8 | Please walk to the exit closest to you and congregate in the JFK Park | 请走到离你最近的出口 在肯尼迪公园集合 |
| 9 | This program tonight is going to be live-streamed and it will be archived online | 今晚的节目将进行现场直播 将在网上存档 |
| 10 | There will also be time for audience Q&A | 观众也会有时间的。 |
| 11 | Audience members who are asking questions are welcome to introduce themselves, but that is not required | 欢迎提问的听众自我介绍,但无需介绍 |
| 12 | Please also take a moment now to silence your cell phones and join me in welcoming fellow Harvard College undergraduate | 也请花点时间 闭上你的手机 和我一起欢迎哈佛大学本科同学 |
| 13 | Dominic Dominic Mimbang | 多米尼克·多米尼克·米姆邦 |
| 14 | Good evening ladies gentlemen and esteemed guests. | 晚上好 先生们 尊敬的客人们 |
| 15 | My name is Dominic Mimbang | 我叫多米尼克・米姆邦 |
| 16 | I'm a freshman studying social studies and linguistics and I am a member of the John F. Kennedy jr. Forum committee | 我是研究社会学和语言学的新生 我是约翰肯尼迪论坛委员会成员 |
| 17 | It is my pleasure to welcome you to today's edition of the Bay | 很高兴欢迎你来到今天的"湾"版 |
| 18 | Debrief and dessert will we where we will be discussing the role of diversity in higher education in American life | 我们在这里讨论多样性在美国生活中的作用 |
| 19 | We are fortunate to have two distinguished guests joining us today to examine and debate these issues | 幸好今天有两位贵宾来参加我们的讨论和辩论。 |
| 20 | Professor Cornell William Brooks is the house a professor of the practice of nonprofit organizations and | 康奈尔·威廉·布鲁克斯教授是非营利组织实践教授 |
| 21 | Professor of the practice of public leadership and social justice here at the Harvard Kennedy School | 哈佛肯尼迪学院公共领导和社会正义实践教授 |
| 22 | He also directs the William Monroe Trotter collaborative for social justice | 他还执导了威廉·门罗·特罗特合作促进社会正义 |
| 23 | Professor Brooks served as the 18th president and CEO of the NAACP from 2014 to 2017 | 2014年至2017年,布鲁克斯教授担任有色人种协进会第18任会长兼首席执行官. |
| 24 | Joining him is dr. Kevin Roberts president of the heritage foundation a public policy research organization based in Washington, DC | 加入他的行列是Kevin Roberts博士 遗产基金会主席 一个公共政策研究组织 总部位于华盛顿特区 |
| 25 | Dr. Roberts has led the foundation since | 罗伯茨博士一直领导着基金会 |
| 26 | 2021 and has played a central role in developing project 2025 a | 2021年,并在开发2025a项目方面发挥了核心作用。 |
| 27 | presidential transition and policy group blueprint | 总统过渡和政策小组蓝图 |
| 28 | Before joining heritage he served as CEO of the Texas Public Policy Foundation and president of Wyoming Catholic College | 在加入遗产之前,他担任德克萨斯州公共政策基金会首席执行官和怀俄明天主教学院院长 |
| 29 | Dr. Roberts holds a PhD in American history from the University of Texas Austin and is the author of dawns early light | 罗伯茨博士拥有德克萨斯大学奥斯汀分校的美国历史博士学位,是黎明早期光的作者. |
| 30 | Taking back Washington to save America | 夺回华盛顿拯救美国 |
| 31 | moderating today's conversation is Laura Meckler a reporter at the Washington Post on the political enterprise team | 今天的谈话是劳拉·梅克勒 华盛顿邮报的记者 政治企业团队 |
| 32 | Following the debate professor Julia Minson of the Harvard Kennedy School author of how to disagree better will lead us in a facilitated debrief | 辩论结束后,哈佛肯尼迪学院的 如何更好地分歧的作者Julia Minson教授 将带领我们进行一个方便的汇报 |
| 33 | The question of diversity is one that many of us have encountered long before entering this room whether through our own educational | 多样性问题是我们许多人在进入本会议厅之前很久遇到的一个问题,无论是通过我们自己的教育还是通过我们自己的教育。 |
| 34 | experiences or the conversations taking place in our communities as | 或我们社区中发生的对话 |
| 35 | Our speakers discussed the role of diversity in higher education in American life | 我们的演讲者讨论了多样性在美国生活中的作用 |
| 36 | I urge you to all listen closely to the reasoning behind their positions | 我敦促大家仔细聆听他们的立场背后的推理 |
| 37 | The debrief will give us a chance to revisit the conversation | 汇报会让我们有机会重温谈话 |
| 38 | Including moments when the speakers challenge one another's assumptions or approach the same principle from different directions | 包括发言者从不同方向对彼此的假设或采用同一原则提出质疑的时刻 |
| 39 | Ultimately behind every discussion of merit or equal treatment are people whose futures may be shaped by those decisions | 在每次讨论功绩或平等待遇后,最终都是那些其未来可能由这些决定决定决定的人。 |
| 40 | I hope we give their experiences the same serious consideration that we give the arguments themselves and | 我希望,我们同样认真考虑他们的经验,以便我们自己和他们的意见。 |
| 41 | Carry that care into the conversations that follow today's forum | 在今天的论坛之后的谈话中注意这一点 |
| 42 | Thank you for joining us now, please join me in welcoming professor Cornell William Brooks | 感谢您加入我们,请与我一起欢迎康奈尔·威廉·布鲁克斯教授 |
| 43 | dr. Kevin Roberts and | 凯文·罗伯茨博士和 |
| 44 | Laura Meckler. | 劳拉·梅克勒 |
| 45 | Thank you | 谢谢 |
| 46 | Right | 对 |
| 47 | Hello, I am so pleased to be here | 你好,我很高兴在这里 |
| 48 | Thank you to the Institute of politics for inviting me for what I am confident will be a lively conversation | 感谢政治学院邀请我 我相信会很活跃的对话 |
| 49 | If it's not we're not doing it, right | 如果不是,我们不这样做,对吗? |
| 50 | We are live state live streaming right now and this conversation is how we reporters like it on the record | 我们现在是现场直播 这场谈话是记者喜欢的 |
| 51 | After this there will be audience question answer starting at about 640 following that a short break | 之后会有观众提问 大约从640开始 在短时间休息之后 |
| 52 | Dessert and then there'll be an off-the-record debriefing about this conversation led by professor Minson and | 甜点,然后会有 一个不记录的汇报 关于这次谈话 由Minson教授和 |
| 53 | She's going to examine moments of constructive engagement and points of disagreement. | 她将研究建设性接触的时刻和分歧点. |
| 54 | So something to think about as you're listening | 所以,有些东西可以思考 当你在听 |
| 55 | Other goals from that the Institute share with me are also things that journalists really value building active listening skills productive question | 研究所与我分享的其他目标 也是记者们真正珍视的 培养积极的听力技巧的问题 |
| 56 | Formulation and engaging with curiosity. | 以好奇心制定并参与。 |
| 57 | So hopefully we will do all of that as well here tonight | 希望我们今晚能做好这一切 |
| 58 | So let's get going I'm gonna ask start out with just sort of a table-setting question for both of you | 所以,我们出发吧,我先问一个问题 给你们两个 |
| 59 | Which is what has higher education gotten right about diversity and what has it gotten wrong? | 高等教育对多样性的正确之处何在? |
| 60 | You can define the first diversity as you see fit. | 您可以任意定义第一个多样性。 |
| 61 | Why don't we start with | 我们何不从 |
| 62 | you professor Brooks | 布鲁克斯教授 |
| 63 | first of all, let me just begin with the word of appreciation to | 首先,让我首先对 |
| 64 | the staff and students of the Institute of politics | 政治学院工作人员和学生 |
| 65 | Certainly to the administration the Dean the faculty certainly to all the students here | 当然,对行政部门来说,教务长的教职员工 绝对是这里所有学生的教职员工 |
| 66 | I also want to express a word of appreciation to | 我也谨对 |
| 67 | my | 来,来,来 |
| 68 | Colleague in this debate tonight because when the school asked me to debate I asked them to ask Kevin Roberts to debate | 今晚辩论的同僚们 因为当学校让我辩论的时候 我让他们请凯文·罗伯茨辩论 |
| 69 | With respect to the question of what has the country gotten right about diversity and what it's gotten wrong about diversity | 关于国家如何正确对待多样性和如何错误对待多样性的问题 |
| 70 | I'm mindful of the fact | 我注意到事实 |
| 71 | that on this day in | 这天在 |
| 72 | 1862年a | |
| 73 | President by the name of Abraham Lincoln | 亚伯拉罕·林肯总统 |
| 74 | radically and racially diversified | 彻底和种族多样化 |
| 75 | the US military | 美国军方 |
| 76 | with the preliminary | 初步报告 |
| 77 | Emancipation Proclamation, which of course to open the door for the Emancipation Proclamation | 解放宣言,当然为解放宣言打开大门 |
| 78 | I'm also mindful of the fact that on this day in | 我也意识到这个日子 |
| 79 | 1969 the | 1969年,日内瓦 |
| 80 | Faculty of Harvard voted to create the afro-american studies department all across this country | 哈佛学院投票决定 在全国设立美国研究系 |
| 81 | Diversity has been brought into being | 多样性已经形成 |
| 82 | by blood sweat tears protest | 血汗流泪抗议 |
| 83 | Demonstrations and assertion of the people's will when we consider this institution when we consider the presidency of Charles Elliott | 在我们审议查尔斯·埃利奥特的主席职位时,我们在审议这个机构时表明和申明人民的意愿 |
| 84 | Who presided over an institution? | 谁主持过一个机构? |
| 85 | Comprised of largely of white men | 主要由白人组成 |
| 86 | relegated largely to New England and | 基本上归到新英格兰 |
| 87 | someone had the vision of | 有人有预想 |
| 88 | Making Harvard a national university which meant that we had to welcome immigrants | 让哈佛成为一所国立大学 意味着我们必须欢迎移民 |
| 89 | we had to welcome people of color black people Latinos Asians and | 我们不得不欢迎黑人 拉丁裔亚洲人和 |
| 90 | most certainly women in the | 当然,女性在 |
| 91 | 1970s and what we've seen is the successive | 20世纪70年代,我们看到的是 连续 |
| 92 | iterative | 迭代 |
| 93 | incomplete imperfect | 不完整 |
| 94 | expansion of diversity | 扩大多样性 |
| 95 | Meritocracy, so when you look across the expanse of this audience | 英才,所以当你看着 广大观众 |
| 96 | Note the differences and the diversity of gender race and ethnicity | 注意到性别种族和族裔的差异和多样性。 |
| 97 | That's what we've gotten right, but it has not come about as a consequence of simply a statement about diversity | 这就是我们得到的正确之处, 但它并没有产生 仅仅因为关于多样性的声明 |
| 98 | We've fought and worked hard to make sure people feel included. | 我们努力奋斗,确保人们感到被包容. |
| 99 | What have we gotten wrong? | 我们出了什么问题? |
| 100 | I think we've gotten it wrong when we conflated in confuse | 我想我们把事情搞乱了 |
| 101 | Diversity with an acronym diversity equity and inclusion it is far greater than that | 多样性(缩写为 " 多样性 " ) |
| 102 | So it's not a matter of changing the acronym on a door. | 所以这不是改变门上的缩写的问题. |
| 103 | It's far greater than that | 远不止于此 |
| 104 | It's about making people feel inclusive. | 是为令众生觉入一切境界. |
| 105 | It's about welcoming people | 这是关于欢迎人们 |
| 106 | It's about harnessing and taking advantage of our diversity with serious policies with respect to financial aid with respect to | 它涉及利用和利用我们的多样性,在财政援助方面采取严肃的政策。 |
| 107 | Scholarships with respect to policies relegated to as to say relative to admission consistent with Supreme Court precedent | 根据最高法院的先例,有关政策方面的奖学金被降格为与入学有关的奖学金 |
| 108 | This requires hard work deep analytic work | 这需要辛勤工作 深入的分析工作 |
| 109 | Our work among ourselves as an intellectual and academic and American community | 我们作为一个知识分子和学术界以及美国社会的工作 |
| 110 | I believe Harvard is far from perfect | 我相信哈佛远非完美 |
| 111 | But it is in many ways an exemplar of the relationship between diversity and meritocracy and when say meritocracy | 但在许多方面,它是多样性与精英管理的关系的典范。 |
| 112 | I don't merely mean GPAs and SAT scores | 我不是说GPA和SAT的分数 |
| 113 | I'm talking about a meritocracy of character and meritocracy of public service and meritocracy | 我说的是品行优异 公共服务优异 和优异 |
| 114 | That makes the country and indeed the world better. | 这使国家乃至世界更美好。 |
| 115 | That's what we've gotten right and | 这就是我们得到的正确和 |
| 116 | we will get it wrong if | 如果这样的话我们会搞错的 |
| 117 | we subscribe to this notion that diversity is is simply a matter of | 我们赞同这种观点,即多样性仅仅是一个问题。 |
| 118 | Allowing whoever walks through the door | 允许任何人走进门 |
| 119 | Walking through the door without an encouragement without support without inclusion and belonging | 在没有鼓励、没有支持、没有包容和归属的情况下走进大门 |
| 120 | Well, I will echo my new friend professor Brooks comments about the gratitude that I have for being here at Harvard | 好吧,我会重复我的新朋友 布鲁克斯教授的评论 关于感谢 我在这里哈佛 |
| 121 | Thank you for the invitation. | 谢谢你的邀请 |
| 122 | Thank you, Laura for moderating this and | 谢谢你,劳拉 调和这个和 |
| 123 | gratitude to him when my staff came to me and said | 感谢他当我的杖 来到我说 |
| 124 | Sir, we have an invitation from Harvard. | 长官,我们收到哈佛的邀请 |
| 125 | I said I'll be there and they said it's a debate | 我说我会去的 他们说这是一场辩论 |
| 126 | Okay, who's who's the debate opponent and they they mentioned professor Brooks name and accounting for what is obvious to everyone in this room | 好吧,谁是辩论对手 他们提到布鲁克斯教授的名字 并解释什么是显而易见的 |
| 127 | Which is that we have some differences of opinion. | 这就是我们有一些意见分歧。 |
| 128 | I respect the heck out of you, sir, and it's a pleasure to be with you | 我尊重你,先生,很高兴和你在一起 |
| 129 | We're gonna have some differences though here in the next minute | 下一分钟我们会有些分歧 |
| 130 | I can promise you that but it comes with the spirit of this forum and thank you to all of you who have made this | 我可以向你们保证,但这与本论坛的精神有关,并感谢你们所有作出这一努力的人。 |
| 131 | possible and in fact | 可能而且事实上 |
| 132 | Early on in this debate Laura | 在这场辩论的早期,劳拉 |
| 133 | I'll just observe that we're so civil that from your vantage point the audience | 我只要观察一下,我们是如此的文明 从你的优势 观众 |
| 134 | Cornell William Brooks is on the right and I am in the center | 康奈尔·威廉 布鲁克斯在右边 而我在中央 |
| 135 | Two things in answer to your question Laura one | 回答你的问题有两件事 劳拉一 |
| 136 | I'm a historian so I'll talk about the long sweep of history that American higher education | 我是一个历史学家,所以我会谈 美国高等教育的漫长历史 |
| 137 | Education generally has gotten right and then secondly something it's gotten wrong but has improved in the last well since January 20th | 教育总的说是正确的,然后是错的, 但从1月20日起,在最后的井里有了改善。 |
| 138 | 2025 the last 18 months what has gotten right | 2025年 过去18个月 |
| 139 | Starts with something that professor Brooks said very eloquently | 从布鲁克斯教授说的开始 |
| 140 | He might use the word diversity if we're talking about an idea and aspiration or rather an observation | 如果我们在谈论一个想法和愿望 或者是观察 |
| 141 | About the American polity. | 关于美国政体. |
| 142 | We're all in at heritage | 我们都是继承人 |
| 143 | I would probably as a historian use the word pluralism, but I don't mean that to be argumentative | 我可能作为一个历史学家 使用多元化这个词, 但我不是说, |
| 144 | I don't think there's really a difference of opinion there | 我觉得那里没什么分歧 |
| 145 | The reason I would say that is this that the United States is one of if not the most | 我之所以这样说,是因为美国是美国,如果不是,也是最伟大的。 |
| 146 | Pluralistic civil society in the history of the world and in spite of that reality and I say in spite not because that's a bad thing | 世界历史上的多元文明社会,尽管有这种现实,我还是要说,不是因为那是件坏事 |
| 147 | But because it is a social and political and cultural and religious challenge in spite of that reality | 因为它是一个社会、政治、文化和宗教挑战 尽管现实 |
| 148 | The United States at the federal state and local government levels has made a promise that it is fulfilled very imperfectly | 美国在联邦州和地方政府一级承诺,它得到的履行非常不完美。 |
| 149 | Over certain times that | 在某些时候 |
| 150 | Every person in the United States gets access to the finest education funded by the people in the history of the world | 美国每个人都能获得 最好的教育 由人民资助 在世界历史上 |
| 151 | And we've done that imperfectly | 而我们做的不完美 |
| 152 | But what we have done well over the last 50 or 60 years in particular | 但在过去的50年或60年里,我们做得非常好 |
| 153 | And I would include Harvard in this I would include public universities probably first | 我将把哈佛也纳入其中 我将会包括公立大学 可能首先 |
| 154 | but I mean no disrespect to your institution there is | 但我不是说不尊重你的机构 |
| 155 | increasing that access | 增加这种接触 |
| 156 | The problem however flipping to the challenge is that we can't stay at this | 面对挑战的问题是 我们不能坚持下去 |
| 157 | sort of philosophical or | 某种哲学或 |
| 158 | Attitudinal plane which is probably one where we largely agree the professor and I | 我们基本上同意教授和我的意见 |
| 159 | We have to turn this into policy or at least that's what certain policy makers | 我们必须把这件事变成政策 或至少某些决策者 |
| 160 | Left of center have said that we have to do and while the professor and I do mean to argue here | 左翼说我们必须这么做 而教授和我想在这里争论 |
| 161 | politely | 礼貌 |
| 162 | While the professor makes the argument that | 教授说 |
| 163 | Diversity as a word as a concept is much bigger than diversity equity and inclusion the reality for every single one of you | 多样性作为一个概念,比多样性的公平性 和包容 每个人的现实 |
| 164 | For every American is that that is the policy program through which? | 对每一个美国人来说,这就是政策方案? |
| 165 | certain attitudes philosophies and politics are being implemented | 正在落实某些态度哲学和政治 |
| 166 | Particularly in higher education and so what higher education has gotten wrong | 特别是高等教育 高等教育出了什么问题 |
| 167 | What Harvard and I mean this is constructive criticism what Harvard has gotten wrong is | 哈佛和我是说 这是建设性的批评 哈佛得到的错误是 |
| 168 | The application of those DEI policies such that they are more harmful to the people who supposedly benefit from them | 实施这些 " DEI " 政策,使其对据称从中受益的人更加有害; |
| 169 | certainly more harmful to the social cohesion of the academic community and | 当然,对学术界的社会凝聚力和 |
| 170 | Harmful to those who deserve who deserve to participate in the education | 对有资格接受教育的人有害 |
| 171 | But the last thing I will say is something that you all expect me to raise and so I will I won't make you do | 但我最后要说的是 你们都希望我提起来 所以我不会逼你们 |
| 172 | This but if I asked all of you to raise your hand if you consider yourself a | 这,但如果我要求你们所有人 举起你的手,如果你认为自己是一个 |
| 173 | Conservative if the Harvard Crimson is right in this regular survey that it does | 如果哈佛大学的Crimson在常规调查中是正确的,那就保守了 |
| 174 | Only between three and ten percent of you in this whole room would raise your hand. | 你们只有百分之三到十的人会举手 |
| 175 | It is by the way totally fine | 顺便说一句 完全没问题 |
| 176 | That the rest of you don't describe yourselves as conservative. | 其他人不认为自己是保守派 |
| 177 | I'm here knowing that | 我在这里知道 |
| 178 | But if diversity is so important to Harvard if diversity is so important to institutions of higher education | 但是如果多样性对哈佛如此重要 如果多样性对高等教育机构如此重要 |
| 179 | Why aren't there more conservatives are people willing to identify themselves as conservatives? | 为什么没有更多保守派的人愿意认同自己是保守派? |
| 180 | Because of the rotten fruit that di has created it creates it stifles | 因为有腐烂的果实 导致它窒息 |
| 181 | Civility it stifles a belief in real diversity | 文明会扼杀对真正多样性的信念 |
| 182 | I believe and I mean this with every part of my being this is my last point Laura | 我相信,我的意思是,我的每一个部分 是我的最后一个点劳拉 |
| 183 | That professor Brooks believes what he says and I will defend him on that regarding the aspiration of diversity the aspiration of pluralism | 布鲁克斯教授相信他的话 我会为他辩护 关于多样性的渴望 |
| 184 | But I will argue as a friend | 但我会以朋友的身份争论 |
| 185 | Tooth and nail that the way we apply that attitude in higher education | 牙齿和钉子,我们在高等教育中运用这种态度的方式 |
| 186 | Including at this very fine institution of higher learning is rotten and actually undermines the very thing | 包括在这个非常优秀的高等学府是腐烂的,实际上破坏了它本身 |
| 187 | We're trying to achieve which is civility and merit across this great pluralistic society | 我们正在努力实现文明 和价值 在这个伟大的多元社会 |
| 188 | Thank you, so just following up on that I do hear from both of you a sense that there's nothing wrong with the goal of | 谢谢,所以继续说,我确实听到 你们两个 一种感觉,没有什么错的目标 |
| 189 | having a diverse community if we're talking about just | 拥有一个多样化的社区 如果我们谈论只是 |
| 190 | Where it would ideally land? | 它最理想的降落地点? |
| 191 | But in terms of how you get there what one thing I heard from professor Brooks | 但对于你如何到达那里 我听到布鲁克斯教授的一件事 |
| 192 | Is that essentially if you don't fight for it if you don't put policies in place for it? | 根本上来说,如果你不为它而奋斗,如果你不为它制定政策呢? |
| 193 | You're not going to get it and I think that we've seen over time that that's often been the case | 你拿不到的,我想我们已经看到 随着时间的推移,这经常是这样 |
| 194 | So how would you respond to that like that essentially if you don't whether you call them DEI or something else if you don't | 所以如果你不叫它们DEI 或者别的东西 如果你不叫它们DEI,你会怎么回应呢? |
| 195 | Actually make it a concerted effort towards diversity. | 实际上,它是一个协调一致的努力,以实现多样性。 |
| 196 | You just won't have it | 你只是不会拥有它 |
| 197 | Well, you know the great question the the the problem or the caveat | 嗯,你知道最大的问题 问题或提醒 |
| 198 | I would offer to your question as a historian is that things change over time and so in | 作为历史学家,我向你们提出一个问题, 即随着时间的流逝, 事情的变化, |
| 199 | 1964 65 did we need programs that might then work called DEI in order to level the | 1964年 65号 我们是否需要一些方案 叫做DEI |
| 200 | playing field perhaps so | 也许游戏场地 |
| 201 | but our problem at heritage my problem as a as a scholar in this work is | 但作为学者 我的问题是 |
| 202 | That we are denying the progress that's been made over the intervening several decades and saying that not only do we have to | 我们否认了过去几十年取得的进展,并说我们不仅必须 |
| 203 | perpetuate some of these same programs which suggests that America is | 维持其中一些同样的方案,表明美国 |
| 204 | Got the same | 也一样 |
| 205 | Challenges in 1965 as it does in 2026 | 1965年的挑战和2026年的挑战 |
| 206 | We actually have to expand them because we're spending more money | 我们真的要扩大它们,因为我们要花更多的钱 |
| 207 | per capita adjusted for inflation on diversity equity and inclusion programs than we ever did on affirmative action programs in the | 根据多样性公平和包容方案的通胀率调整的人均通胀率,比我们以往在经济、社会、文化权利方面的平权行动方案 |
| 208 | 1960s and then furthermore the second point and I'll stop here so we can keep the thing flowing is | 20世纪60年代,然后第二点 我会在这里停下来,这样我们就可以保持 东西流畅是 |
| 209 | That it is such a limited circumscribed view of what's trying to be achieved. | 这是对所要达到的目标的有限看法。 |
| 210 | It's not diversity equity and inclusion | 这不是多样性的公平和包容 |
| 211 | based on socioeconomics | 基于社会经济因素 |
| 212 | It's not diversity equity inclusion based on geography | 这不是基于地理的多元化公平包容 |
| 213 | It's not diversity equity inclusion in every case based on first-generation college students | 并不是每个案例都以第一代大学生为基础 包含多样性公平 |
| 214 | It's diversity equity inclusion defined by immutable characteristics | 由不可改变的特性定义的多元公平包容 |
| 215 | and I think one of the noble aspects the most noble aspect of the American spirit is | 我认为美国精神最崇高的方面之一是 |
| 216 | That we don't want to define ourselves by immutable | 我们不想用永不改变的方式定义自己 |
| 217 | Characteristics and you know why? | 你知道为什么吗? |
| 218 | Because when we do that and when we put it in policy, maybe even with the best of intentions | 因为当我们这样做, 当我们把它纳入政策, 也许甚至有最好的用意 |
| 219 | The reality is that it divides us further | 现实是,它使我们进一步分裂 |
| 220 | I would go so far as to double down on my opposition to this and make the claim that diversity equity inclusion | 我甚至要加倍反对,声称多样性公平 |
| 221 | Programs not the attitude programs do more to harm social | 方案不是态度方案更能伤害社会 |
| 222 | Cohesion in the United States than they have done to help it in the last decade. | 在美国的团结 比他们在过去10年里所做的帮助。 |
| 223 | Okay, how do you respond to that? | 好吧,你如何回应? |
| 224 | first, let me | 先让我来 |
| 225 | Make clear what informs my perspective. | 说清楚我的观点 |
| 226 | I've spent 30 years as a civil rights lawyer and | 我当了30年的民权律师 |
| 227 | leader | 领导 |
| 228 | Which is to say I believe I'm the only person on this stage | 也就是说我相信我是唯一在这个舞台上的人 |
| 229 | Who's actually gone to court in the community on the media and across the Academy? | 媒体和整个学院里 谁在社区上上过法庭? |
| 230 | Defending the rights of discrimination victims | 维护歧视受害者的权利 |
| 231 | So my perspective is informed by being a civil rights lawyer as well as being a professor | 因此,我的观点从一个民权律师和教授的角度来理解 |
| 232 | Here at the Harvard Kennedy School point one point two if you notice my dear colleague asked you | 这里是哈佛肯尼迪学校的一点二 如果你注意到我亲爱的同事问你 |
| 233 | To raise your hands with respect to how many of you are or a conservative, right? | 举起手来谈谈你们中有多少人或保守派,对吧? |
| 234 | I think that's an interesting | 我觉得这很有趣 |
| 235 | test | 测试 |
| 236 | Survey, but we however have decade after decade after decade of civil rights studies and surveys | 调查,但我们有十年 十年后的十年 民权研究和调查 |
| 237 | Demonstrating discrimination discrimination faced by little children little black boys a little black girls who are deemed to be | 表明小男孩、黑人男孩、黑人女孩受到歧视 |
| 238 | disruptive based on subjective | 基于主观的破坏性 |
| 239 | Subjective observations and punish | 主观观察和惩罚 |
| 240 | disparately | 不一样 |
| 241 | Disproportionately unfairly and cruelly we have studies that demonstrate discrimination in the workplace | 过分不公平和残忍 我们的研究显示工作场所的歧视 |
| 242 | With respect to people applying for jobs and not being treated fairly. | 关于申请工作的人和没有得到公平待遇的人。 |
| 243 | Those are studies that is data | 这些研究是数据 |
| 244 | This is not a matter of my personal opinion | 这不是我个人的看法 |
| 245 | It's not a matter of my opinion having led the NAACP or the Heritage Foundation or any such organization | 领导有色人种协进会或传统基金会 或任何这样的组织 并不关我的事 |
| 246 | These are facts data that cannot be escaped | 这些是无法逃脱的事实数据 |
| 247 | So that point two point three here with respect to this notion that DEI is | 因此,在这里两点三 关于这个概念,DEI是 |
| 248 | The cause of the vision. | 观心之因. |
| 249 | This is like confusing | 这就像混乱 |
| 250 | Aspirin with the headache the cure for the disease | 头痛的阿司匹林 治疗疾病 |
| 251 | Chemotherapy with cancer the fact of the matter is DEI officers were created | 癌症的化疗 事实是 DEI官员被创建了 |
| 252 | To lessen discrimination to welcome people to create inclusion last point here notice that the document | 减少歧视,欢迎人们创造融入,最后一点在此指出,该文件 |
| 253 | That my colleague co-authored | 我的同事共同写了 |
| 254 | Let us project 2025 let us never heard of the professor | 让我们计划2025 让我们永远不要听到教授 |
| 255 | And our current president claimed not to have heard it either | 现任总统也声称没有听到 |
| 256 | Something's working | 有东西起作用了 |
| 257 | 60% is working, but at least 40% of MAGA actually opposed initially along with the majority of the country, but let us know | 60%在工作,但至少40%的MAGA 一开始和全国大多数人一起反对,但让我们知道 |
| 258 | project 2025 | 项目2025 |
| 259 | 922 pages a magnus opus of misdirection, right? | 922页的岩浆 错误方向,对不对? |
| 260 | Why because it calls for a war against DEI, but it also calls for a war against civil rights protection | 为什么因为它呼吁对DEI开战,但也呼吁对民权保护开战 |
| 261 | So in other words the Department of Education is charged with is now charged with the responsibility of closing DEI offices | 换句话说,教育部现在负责关闭DEI办公室 |
| 262 | But it also closed the majority of civil rights offices leaving defenseless | 但同时也关闭了大部分民权办公室 不再有防卫能力 |
| 263 | Children who face racial discrimination who face gender discrimination who face discrimination based on disabilities | 面临种族歧视的儿童面临性别歧视的儿童面临基于残疾的歧视 |
| 264 | So if we're sincere here if we're serious here that this is about protecting people as well as welcoming people | 所以,如果我们是真诚的,如果我们是认真的 在这里,这是为了保护人民和欢迎人民 |
| 265 | Then I recall upon the heritage foundation to call off this misguided attempt to literally hold civil rights enforcement in this country | 我提醒遗产基金会 停止这个错误的企图 实实在在地维持这个国家的民权执行 |
| 266 | We see the Department of Justice right where at one point 70% of the experienced attorneys in the Civil Rights Division were sidelined | 我们看到司法部的权利, 在一个点 70%有经验的律师 在公民权利司 被忽略 |
| 267 | The point being here that we need to be very clear here, and I owe my colleague sincerity and transparency | 我们在这里需要非常清楚这一点,我欠我的同事的诚意和透明度。 |
| 268 | I have to note here that the implementation of project 2025 is | 我必须在此指出,2025年项目的执行是: |
| 269 | Co-occurring with a rise in hate crime a rise in racism rise in division on our | 伴随着仇恨犯罪的增加 种族主义的加剧 对我们的分裂 |
| 270 | College campuses and a retreat from civil rights enforcement so project 25 is to blame for that | 大学校园和退出 民权执法 所以项目25是责备的 |
| 271 | When you when you go after civil rights or offices, okay? | 当你去追求民权或办公室,好吗? |
| 272 | Well, let me let me let me interject here for a second | 让我插一下这里 |
| 273 | I think you I think you probably need to let me put it | 我想你,我觉得你可能需要 让我把它放 |
| 274 | Let me put a finer point on on the point | 让我把一个更细微的点 关于这一点 |
| 275 | He's raising putting aside whether a project 2025 is responsible for it or not | 他把2025年计划是否负责提了出来 |
| 276 | It is true that the Trump administration has | 川普政府确实已经 |
| 277 | Drastically changed its civil rights approach to civil rights enforcement and then at the Education Department there is far less and far fewer investigations of | 对公民权利执行的民权处理方式发生了巨大变化,教育部对公民权利执行的调查越来越少。 |
| 278 | discrimination against black and Hispanic students than there once were there | 对黑人和西班牙裔学生的歧视 |
| 279 | Investigations that have been put on ice for for a very long time. | 调查被冰冻了很长时间 |
| 280 | They're the only | 只有他们 |
| 281 | resolution agreements that they've reached on racial discrimination involved the PhD project which is an effort to try to | 他们就种族歧视问题达成的解决协议涉及博士学位项目,该项目旨在努力 |
| 282 | Help black and Hispanic students network towards a business PhD that their priorities clearly have changed | 帮助黑人和西班牙裔学生网络发展商业博士,他们的优先事项明显改变 |
| 283 | So is that it does that make sense to you that they would be? | 所以,这是否使你 合理,他们会是? |
| 284 | Essentially pushing some of that aside in order to promote the the agenda that is I promise I get to your question | 为了宣传议程 我答应你的问题 |
| 285 | But back to your assertion | 但回到你的论断 |
| 286 | Vility does not require me to stand here sit here as | 威力并不需要我站在这里坐在这里 |
| 287 | The leader one of the leaders of project 2025 and here someone who might still genuinely respect | 2025年计划的领导者之一 和在这里有人 谁可能仍然真正尊重 |
| 288 | imply that because a | 意思是因为 |
| 289 | Conservative think tank has done what it has done for 45 years | 保守派智囊团已经做了45年了 |
| 290 | Which is proposed policy change that that has contributed to the rise in political violence and hate crimes | 提议的政策改变导致政治暴力和仇恨犯罪增加 |
| 291 | particularly sir when every study on both sides of the Atlantic on the origins and | 特别是先生,当大西洋两岸对起源和 |
| 292 | Thoughts of people who are entertaining political violence shows that people on the left are nine times more likely | 对政治暴力的娱乐者的想法 表明左翼的人的可能性是九倍 |
| 293 | Just to justify political violence than people on the right | 为政治暴力辩护 而不是为右边的人辩护 |
| 294 | I don't want any of it to exist, but it is in the spirit of civility professor | 我不想它有任何存在, 但这是本着文明的精神教授 |
| 295 | Want to give you the opportunity to clarify that I will gladly take the opportunity to clarify and double down | 想给你机会澄清一下 我很乐意利用这个机会澄清和加倍 |
| 296 | The fact of the matter is the fact that we like data. | 事实是,我们喜欢数据。 |
| 297 | So show me the data sir. | 给我看数据,先生 |
| 298 | I can show you to show you the data | 我可以给你看数据 |
| 299 | The the data would include the FBI's under reporting of hate crimes in this country | 数据包括联邦调查局正在报道的 这个国家的仇恨犯罪 |
| 300 | The data would include from the Department of Education from the Department of Justice where literally civil rights | 数据将包括司法部教育部提供的关于公民权利的资料。 |
| 301 | Enforcement has been pulled back leaving | 执法部门已经撤走 |
| 302 | Discrimination victims hate crime victims more vulnerable | 歧视受害者憎恨更易受伤害的犯罪受害者 |
| 303 | I didn't say the heritage foundation is contributing to the rise of hate crime as a cause what I am | 我可没说传统基金会 助长仇恨犯罪的兴起 |
| 304 | Your framing of the point a lot of people the audience think excuse me, excuse me | 你陷害了很多人 观众认为对不起,对不起 |
| 305 | Excuse me. | 对不起。 |
| 306 | Let me let me let me let me finish the point. | 让我说完 |
| 307 | The point being here is we cannot and and | 问题是,我们不能而且 |
| 308 | You would accuse me of framing the point | 你会指责我 陷害这一点 |
| 309 | I would accuse you of allotting the point the fact of the matter is pulling back | 我会指责你把事情的真相 推后 |
| 310 | Civil rights enforcements leave civil rights victims hate crime victims less protected | 民权执法使民权受害人仇恨犯罪受害人得到保护较少 |
| 311 | Those are facts. | 这些是事实。 |
| 312 | Okay, and the fact of matter is you have not yet addressed | 好吧,事实是你还没有解决 |
| 313 | What happened to all those lawyers at the Department of Justice? | 司法部的那些律师怎么了? |
| 314 | What happened to all those lawyers and investors? | 所有这些律师和投资者都怎么了? |
| 315 | Once right once we can move past you and with respect to to | 一旦我们穿过你,然后... |
| 316 | I'm gonna jump in here with respect because I don't think that the main point here is what the heritage foundation did or didn't do | 我将在这里跳 与尊重,因为我不认为这里的要点 是什么 遗产基金会做或不做 |
| 317 | I think what the Trump administration is a lot more powerful than the heritage fund. | 我认为,特朗普政府的力量比遗产基金大得多。 |
| 318 | I thought you respect | 我以为你尊重我 |
| 319 | So I think maybe but heritage called for it understood | 所以我想也许,但是遗产要求它理解 |
| 320 | But they called for some of what certainly a good chunk of what the Trump administration is doing | 但是他们要求一些 川普政府正在做的事情 |
| 321 | Which you would claim with pride | 你会骄傲地声称 |
| 322 | But let's let's just put aside the question of exactly what was called for not and talk about what is actually happening | 但是,让我们先把问题放在一边, 确切地说,什么叫不要, 谈谈到底发生了什么 |
| 323 | So happy to okay. | 很高兴没事。 |
| 324 | I'm happy to get back to you. | 欢喜回向. |
| 325 | Okay, so if we could if we could focus it on that | 好吧,所以如果我们可以 如果我们可以集中精力 |
| 326 | So the civil rights functions that were in the Department of Education have been moved to the Department of Justice | 所以,在教育部的民权职能 已经转移到司法部 |
| 327 | So if you want to talk about data and we want to do that as scholars and friends and calmly | 所以,如果你想谈 数据,我们想做 作为学者和朋友 冷静地 |
| 328 | That's true | 没错 |
| 329 | Secondly, it's also true that the Department of Education needs to be eliminated immediately | 第二,教育部也需要立即取消 |
| 330 | Heritage has been calling for this literally since the day it was signed into creation in 1979. | 传统自1979年签署创建之日起就一直要求这样做。 |
| 331 | And this is very relevant Laura | 这是非常相关的劳拉 |
| 332 | I see you're about to jump in and say it isn't Roberts, but I promise you it is in | 我知道你要跳进去说不是罗伯茨 但我向你保证 |
| 333 | 1979 with the Department of Education was created | 1979年 教育部成立 |
| 334 | Since that time all that has happened is that we've spent trillions of dollars on k-12 education | 从那时起,我们花费了 万亿美元进行K -12教育 |
| 335 | for | (单位:千美元) |
| 336 | mediocrity for everybody in terms of educational attainment | 在教育程度方面人人平庸 |
| 337 | So going back to this noble aspiration that we actually violently agree on | 所以回到这个崇高的愿望 我们实际上暴力同意 |
| 338 | It's a real problem | 这是一个真正的问题 |
| 339 | But as it relates to higher education the Department of Education has created more harm as it relates to the social cohesion | 但是,在高等教育方面,教育部对社会融合造成了更多的伤害。 |
| 340 | We aspire to achieve it's created more harm as it relates to meritocracy. | 我们渴望达到这个目标,因为它对精英管理造成了更多的伤害。 |
| 341 | It has done very little in the way of | 它在以下几个方面做得很少: |
| 342 | allowing people who are | 允许那些 |
| 343 | disadvantaged | 处境不利 |
| 344 | Socioeconomically geographically because of first-generation students to participate in these programs | 参加这些方案的第一代学生在地理上的社会经济地位 |
| 345 | Because the Department of Education has over emphasized with other parts of our government the color of someone's skin | 因为教育部和政府其他部门 过度强调某人的肤色 |
| 346 | And my point is that and I know you're not making this claim | 我想说的是 我知道你不会提出这个要求 |
| 347 | But I just want to be clear about it | 但我只想说清楚 |
| 348 | My point isn't that we haven't had to address that injustice and that evil | 我的观点不是说我们没有 解决不公正和邪恶 |
| 349 | I've written about that as a as a historian | 我以历史学家的身份写过 |
| 350 | My point is that in | 我想说的是 |
| 351 | 2026 the changes that the administration are has made and will continue to make are | 2026年行政部门已经并将继续作出的改变是: |
| 352 | Just and we're very proud at heritage for perhaps having guided some of them | 我们为传统感到骄傲 因为也许引导了他们中的一些人 |
| 353 | Well, I think I'm gonna follow up on that which is that the it is it is true that the Trump administration | 好吧,我想我会跟进的是, 是什么是川普政府是真的 |
| 354 | You know as aspires urge on by heritage aspires to close the education department | 你知道 遗产的渴望 渴望关闭教育部门 |
| 355 | And it says it wants less of a role federal role in education | 它说它不想在教育中扮演联邦的角色 |
| 356 | But at the same time it really has rarely been more aggressive and telling | 但与此同时,它实际上很少 更攻击和告诉 |
| 357 | universities and k-12 schools sort of what to do particularly around these issues threatening even private | 大学和K-12学校在这些问题上应该做些什么,甚至威胁到私人 |
| 358 | k-12 schools with their tax-exempt status if they have anything resembling a | k-12 具有免税地位的学校,如果有类似情况 |
| 359 | Dei program and and the Trump administration also specifically has demanded extraordinary changes here at at Harvard itself down to the idea | Dei计划 和特朗普政府 也特别要求 哈佛大学的特异性改变 |
| 360 | Demanding ideological diversity in every single program within the university or they're going to keep billions of dollars in research funding | 在大学的每个课程中 都要求思想上的多样性 否则他们会保留数十亿美元的研究资金 |
| 361 | obviously, that's tied in the courts, but | 很明显,这是 绑在法院,但 |
| 362 | Actually, the administration is lost in the courts, but but but that is what they've demanded | 实际上 行政权在法院里已经丧失了 但这是他们要求的 |
| 363 | So how do you square this idea that the you know? | 你怎么解释你知道的? |
| 364 | the federal government should have a less of a role in education and yet there is such an aggressive role and and | 联邦政府在教育方面应发挥较少的作用,然而,却有如此积极的作用。 |
| 365 | Until I am covering politics now, but I've covered education for the last | 直到现在我负责政治,但我负责教育 |
| 366 | Eight years that the full Trump administration this time in half of the last one | 八年了,川普的全权执政 这一次在上一个的一半 |
| 367 | They are very aggressive compared to really all of their credits predecessors. | 与他们所有的信用前辈相比,他们非常积极。 |
| 368 | So Laura | 所以劳拉 |
| 369 | Dr. Roberts has gone first a couple of times and I want to take this rare opportunity to castigate big government on behalf of Dr. | 罗伯茨博士先走了几次 我想利用这个难得的机会 代表博士来推翻大政府 |
| 370 | Roberts | 罗伯茨 |
| 371 | Thank you professor. | 谢谢教授 |
| 372 | The fact of the matter is when we look at the look at the litigation in in the First Circuit | 事实是,当我们审视第一巡回法庭的诉讼时 |
| 373 | In terms of | 就 |
| 374 | Harvard versus health and human services in that case | 哈佛大学的健康与人类服务 |
| 375 | The judge clearly noted that our First Amendment rights were violated | 法官明确指出,我们的第一修正案权利受到了侵犯 |
| 376 | How so when we have a federal government big government overreaching government? | 当我们有联邦政府大政府 超越政府时如何? |
| 377 | Attempting to micromanage Harvard and to dictate to Harvard how we should teach how we should manage the university | 试图对哈佛进行微观管理,并向哈佛下达如何教导我们如何管理大学的命令 |
| 378 | What ideas that we should put forward? | 我们应该提出什么想法? |
| 379 | how do we know this because we have a district court judge who essentially said so because the this administration at the direction of | 我们怎么知道这一点,因为我们有一位地区法院法官,他基本上是这样说的,因为本届政府按照指示行事。 |
| 380 | project 2025 was | 2025年项目 |
| 381 | Attempting to root out divisive ideology, whatever that means, right? | 试图根除分裂的意识形态, 不管那是什么意思,对不对? |
| 382 | So they've gone to the going to the courts time and time again railing about DEI divisive ideology | 所以,他们去去法院 反复争论DEI分裂意识形态 |
| 383 | Well, on one hand they criticize our critical race theory on the other hand, they try to impose the SSA | 一方面他们批评我们的种族理论 一方面他们试图强加SSA |
| 384 | Try to oppose DEI and impose some other ideology and and let me go back to an earlier point this notion of | 试着反对DEI 并强加一些其他的意识形态 让我回到早先的观点 |
| 385 | Equating liberals moderates or conservatives to people who are victims of discrimination and who are members of protected class | 将自由派温和派或保守派等同于歧视受害者和受保护阶层成员 |
| 386 | With all due respect | 一心奉请 |
| 387 | Conservatives aren't the same thing as Jewish people who face anti-semitism black people would face racism | 保守派和面对反犹太主义的犹太人不同 黑人会面对种族主义 |
| 388 | Latino people who face | 面对的拉美人 |
| 389 | Xenophobia, let us not equate these right? | 仇外心理,让我们不要把这些权利等同起来? |
| 390 | We want to have an inclusive | 我们想要一个包容性的 |
| 391 | community, but we don't want to | 社区,但我们不想 |
| 392 | equate the lack of | 等于没有 |
| 393 | Ideological diversity with actual discrimination. | 意识形态多样性与实际歧视。 |
| 394 | I'll go in the order of I'll come back to your point | 我按顺序走 我会回到你的观点 |
| 395 | Yeah, there's a lot on the table I'll try to be concise too, which is which is hard for this southerner | 是啊,桌子上有很多 我会尽量简洁一点 这对南方人来说是很难的 |
| 396 | To your question about the Trump administration's policies | 关于特朗普政府政策的问题 |
| 397 | two quick things but but important the first is they're trying to correct what we see is at the very least bad policy and | 但首先他们试图纠正 我们所看到的至少是糟糕的政策 |
| 398 | What has been an injustice? | 什么是不公正的? |
| 399 | the second point that I make with only mild sarcasm is | 我的第二点只是轻轻讽刺 |
| 400 | The reason the administration has authority over that is | 行政当局有权这样做的原因是: |
| 401 | Because universities like Harvard with what 45 billion dollars in its endowment | 因为像哈佛这样的大学 捐赠了450亿美元 |
| 402 | Continue to live off the public dole, especially through research grants | 继续依靠公共救济金生活,特别是通过研究赠款 |
| 403 | So all Harvard has to do is say we want to be totally private and why can I say that? | 所以哈佛大学要做的就是 说我们想保持完全的私密 我为什么要这么说? |
| 404 | Is it because I'm the president of the Heritage Foundation and know one or two things about policy? | 是因为我是传统基金会的总裁 懂一两件事吗? |
| 405 | No | 没有 |
| 406 | It's because I was president of a tiny college that aspired | 那是因为我曾经是一所小大学的校长 渴望 |
| 407 | Aspires one day to have the intellectual | 有朝一日渴望有知识分子 |
| 408 | Credibility and reputation of Harvard and it rejected federal student loans and grants | 哈佛大学的信誉和声誉,并拒绝联邦学生贷款和赠款 |
| 409 | Why so that it wouldn't have to deal with whatever the different policies might be in certain administration? | 为什么这样它就不用处理 某些政府可能采取的不同政策? |
| 410 | So the decision is actually really easy. | 所以这个决定其实很简单。 |
| 411 | It's in Harvard's court, but to your point, especially your last point, which I will home in on | 这是在哈佛的宫廷, 但对你的观点, 特别是你的最后一点, 我会回家 |
| 412 | It's actually related to this | 其实和这个有关 |
| 413 | This may not be as big an issue at Harvard as it is on a couple of other campuses one a fellow Ivy League school | 这在哈佛可能不像其他几个校区一样大 是一个常春藤联盟的学校 |
| 414 | And one a major public university in the southwest, but you mentioned anti-semitism | 还有西南的一所公立大学,但你提到过反分裂主义 |
| 415 | This is one of the things we can't tolerate in a university, but it's been tolerated through | 这是大学里我们无法容忍的事情之一 但是它已经被容忍了 |
| 416 | tragically through | 悲惨的经过 |
| 417 | so-called free speech codes which somehow allow | 所谓言论自由的代码 在某种程度上允许 |
| 418 | people to shout and | 人们大喊大叫 |
| 419 | Let me finish anti-semitic comments, but conservatives don't have that same right on these campuses | 不过保守派在校园里没有同样的权利 |
| 420 | the administration is trying to bring some corrective to that and I would like to think that that is a | 行政当局正试图对此作出一些纠正,我想认为,这是 |
| 421 | Desire that we share on both the left and the right that if we have a different presidential administration in the future on the left | 希望我们在左翼和右翼都同意 如果我们将来在左翼有不同的总统政府 |
| 422 | That they would do the same thing but recent history under the Biden administration would suggest that their Department of Education and Justice | 他们也会这么做 但拜登政府最近的历史 表明他们的教育和司法部 |
| 423 | We're looking the other way | 我们向另一边看 |
| 424 | So maybe that is some common ground that we can we can go fight on the last point is this this is actually in terms | 所以也许这是一些共同点 我们可以去战斗的最后一点 这是实际上的 |
| 425 | of the origins or the | 来源或来源 |
| 426 | Anthropology of our most fundamental disagreement. | 我们最根本分歧的人类学 |
| 427 | This would be the observation that would make as a friend. | 这将是一个朋友的意见。 |
| 428 | So and it's this | 所以这是 |
| 429 | You believe that the level of discrimination that's an injustice that certainly existed in previous | 你相信 歧视的程度 是一种不公正 肯定存在在过去 |
| 430 | periods in this country is still so extensive that we have to have | 这个国家的时期仍然如此漫长,以至于我们必须 |
| 431 | Policy programs that by | 政策方案 |
| 432 | So many objective measures do more harm than good | 这么多的客观措施 伤害大于伤害 |
| 433 | What I'm saying and what we're saying at heritage is that we've made such tremendous | и肚肚琌 и暗 |
| 434 | Progress on questions of race and I mean this genuinely Cornell in some part because of your own leadership | 种族问题的进展,我是指 真正的康奈尔 部分因为你自己的领导 |
| 435 | that we don't have to have those programs and we run too great a risk at | 我们不必有那些节目 我们冒着很大的风险 |
| 436 | undermining the progress that we've been made by | 破坏我们的进步 |
| 437 | Continuing to implement through the Department of Education through other federal agencies those policies | 继续通过教育部通过其他联邦机构执行这些政策; |
| 438 | It isn't a difference in desire of what we want to achieve. | 这不是我们想要实现的欲望的不同。 |
| 439 | I know that sitting here with you for an hour | 我知道在这里和你坐了一个小时 |
| 440 | It's a difference in implementation, which is often so much what politics is about | 这是不同的执行, 这经常是 政治是什么 |
| 441 | So, let's be clear that when we talk about | 所以,让我们清楚,当我们谈论 |
| 442 | Racism antisemitism Zima xenophobia Islamophobia in American society | 美国社会对Zima仇外心理的仇视 |
| 443 | We're not talking about some distant age in the past | 我们不是说过去某个遥远的时代 |
| 444 | we're speaking currently and all we need do is consult the | 我们现在在说话 我们只需要咨询一下 |
| 445 | the dissent of | 异议 |
| 446 | Justice Kagan who simply listed the racist things that our president has cut let come out of his mouth | Kagan法官只是列举了 总统所割断的种族主义东西 任由他说出来 |
| 447 | All we need do is look at the studies | 我们只需要看看这些研究 |
| 448 | Look at the statistics that speak about discrimination in the school system from preschool | 研究有关学龄前学校系统歧视的统计数据 |
| 449 | To prison those disparities those that discrimination is real in case after case after case | 将那些歧视在事后确实存在的差异关进监狱 |
| 450 | academic study after academic study | 学术研究后 |
| 451 | So let's not talk about discrimination racism bigotry as at some point in the past and as a consequence at the | 因此,让我们不要谈论歧视 种族主义偏执在过去的某个时候 和后果 |
| 452 | Assessment of the Heritage Foundation. | 遗产基金会评估。 |
| 453 | We need to pull back, right? | 我们需要撤退,对不对? |
| 454 | So again, this is not about your opinion or my opinion | 再说一遍,这与你或我的意见无关 |
| 455 | I'm glad that you trust that my leadership has contributed to the bettering of the country | 我很高兴你相信 我的领导为国家改善作出了贡献 |
| 456 | I don't trust my leadership to that degree, right? | 我不相信我的领导才能,对不对? |
| 457 | I trust | и獺 |
| 458 | The people I work with at the NAACP who are willing to give their lives for the betterment of this country | 我和有色人种协进会的同事 愿意为这个国家的改善献出生命 |
| 459 | Knowing full well that it is a hard | 完全知道这是很难的 |
| 460 | fought battle | 战斗 |
| 461 | no new administration will bring about some some | 没有新的政府能带来一些 |
| 462 | New era in America where we don't have to be vigilant with respect to fighting bigotry of all forms | 在美国的新时代,我们不必警惕反对一切形式的偏执 |
| 463 | It's hysterical how many questions I had here | 我在这里问了多少问题 真是歇斯底里 |
| 464 | We're not gonna get to | 我们不会去的 |
| 465 | We have time for maybe one more before we get to audience questions to start thinking of what your questions might be | 我们还有时间再问一个问题 然后再开始思考你的问题是什么 |
| 466 | I've asked you a couple questions about challenges from the left. | 我问你几个关于左边的挑战的问题 |
| 467 | I want to ask ask you I think about one of the core | 我想问你 我想到一个核心 |
| 468 | Professor Brooks one of the core challenges from the right which is the cost of these programs that you know | Brooks教授从右侧提出的核心挑战之一 就是这些节目的成本 |
| 469 | If we look at what these programs are whether it be a leadership program at a company that's targeted | 如果我们看看这些方案是什么 它是否是一个领导方案 在公司的目标 |
| 470 | toward people of a | 对一个民族 |
| 471 | particular race to help them advance inside the company or access to a magnet high school or a | 在公司内部或进入磁铁高中或 |
| 472 | Scholarship program targeted to women say each one of these involves scarce resources that are going to somebody and then not going to somebody else | 以妇女为对象的奖学金方案说,每个方案都涉及稀缺的资源,这些资源用于某人,然后不用于其他人。 |
| 473 | So, you know is that they're an underlying tension here between promoting diversity and | 所以,你知道,他们是 潜在的张力在这里 促进多样性和 |
| 474 | Merit the idea that there will be losers in these things | 相信这些事情会有失败者 |
| 475 | Especially when we're talking about admissions that there will be people who aren't admitted who might in fact deserve that spot, too | 特别是当我们谈论录取时, 会有一些没有被录取的人 可能实际上值得那个位置,太。 |
| 476 | And then but they didn't get it because they didn't check the right demographic box | 但他们没有拿到,因为他们没有检查 正确的人口框 |
| 477 | So I believe I think that's like the one before conservative arguments. | 所以我认为这就像保守论调之前的论调。 |
| 478 | I'd like to get your | 我想帮你拿 |
| 479 | Yes | 对 |
| 480 | in answering the question, I think it's important for all of us to be | 在回答这个问题时,我认为重要的是我们大家 |
| 481 | Sincere intellectually sincere so when we talk about | 诚心诚意,所以当我们谈论 |
| 482 | Preferences in terms of college and college admissions. | 在大专院校招生方面实行优惠. |
| 483 | We can't talk about race without talking about | 我们不能不谈种族问题 |
| 484 | Preferences based on | 基于 |
| 485 | being the child of a donor being the child of a | 捐献者的子女是 |
| 486 | Faculty member we can't talk about preferences without talking about athlete preferences | 院士们,不讲运动员的喜好,就不能谈喜好 |
| 487 | So when we look at the reporting of the crimson | 所以,当我们看 报告crimson |
| 488 | I'm sure we have crimson reporters in the room excellent reporting that has spoken to the fact that | 我敢肯定,我们有crimson记者 在房间里的优秀报道 已经谈到的事实, |
| 489 | Many white students at Harvard benefit from a kind of affirmative action not | 许多在哈佛的白人学生受益于某种扶持行动,而不是 |
| 490 | Available to black and brown students. | 黑褐色学生可以使用. |
| 491 | The point being here is not to cast the I'm not casting any aspersions | 这里的重心是不要铸造我所没有铸造的涂鸦 |
| 492 | I'm not calling into questions | 我不是在问问题 |
| 493 | Anyone's merit, but I'm simply saying we have to have an honest conversation | 任何人的优点, 但我只是说, 我们必须有一个诚实的对话 |
| 494 | about merit | 关于功绩 |
| 495 | Relative to everyone and how everyone gets it and so the point being here is when the Heritage Foundation | 相对每个人来说 每个人是如何得到的 所以这里的意义在于 当传统基金会 |
| 496 | Talks about merit. | 谈功德. |
| 497 | It's only in terms of black and brown students. | 仅指黑褐色学生. |
| 498 | What about white working-class students? | 白人工人阶级学生呢? |
| 499 | Are we talking about that? | 我们是在说这个吗? |
| 500 | Are we talking about more first-generation programs? | 我们说的是更多的第一代节目吗? |
| 501 | We talked about more programs for veterans. | 我们讨论过更多的退伍军人方案。 |
| 502 | The point being here is there's a tendency under this administration | 问题是,在这个政府下有一种倾向 |
| 503 | When we talk about merit to talk about merit only when it comes to black and brown people, how do we know this? | 当我们谈论功绩时,只谈黑人和棕色人种的功绩,我们怎么知道的? |
| 504 | There's an attack on race-based scholarships | 有攻击 种族奖学金 |
| 505 | But they only mention black scholarships. | 但他们只提到黑人奖学金. |
| 506 | There are no scholarships | 没有奖学金 |
| 507 | We don't talk about scholarships for for Irish people Lithuanian people Ukrainian people Catholic people Jewish people | 我们不谈爱尔兰人的奖学金 立陶宛人 乌克兰人 天主教人 犹太人 |
| 508 | Let's be honest, right? | 让我们说实话,对不对? |
| 509 | We can't be concerned about meritocracy | 我们不能担心功勋 |
| 510 | when we're not considering the merits the merits of every applicant and there's a certain | 当我们不考虑是非曲直 每一个申请人的优点 并有一个特定的 |
| 511 | Ingenuousness in this conversation that if we're gonna be honest and be on the stage at Harvard | 这场对话的巧妙之处是,如果我们要诚实 并登上哈佛大学的舞台 |
| 512 | We can't ignore | 我们不能无视 |
| 513 | Let's have folks line up at these mics. | 让我们让大家排好这些麦克风。 |
| 514 | There's four of them one here one here one up there and | 这里有四个人 一个在这上面 |
| 515 | Ask one more question and then we'll get to yours, which we didn't get to this question of ideological diversity | 再问一个问题,然后我们再问你, 我们没有得到这个 意识形态多样性的问题 |
| 516 | There's been big efforts in some universities to try to hire most business particularly conservative faculty | 有些大学已经做出很大努力, 试图雇用大多数企业 特别是保守的教师 |
| 517 | So how is that not sort of affirmative action for conservatives in the sense of you know? | 那么,这怎么不是那种对保守派的肯定行动呢? |
| 518 | Maybe there's a liberal who was had more merit. | 也许有位自由主义者 更有优点 |
| 519 | So how is this not a it's not a federal law Laura | 怎么会不是联邦法呢 劳拉 |
| 520 | requiring that it's | 要求这是 |
| 521 | universities either coming to their senses that only | 大学要么意识到只有 |
| 522 | 1% of political donations from liberal arts professors go to the right and | 自由艺术教授的政治捐款有1%流向右翼 |
| 523 | Recognizing that if they want to recruit more students, maybe not conservative, but maybe students on the left | 承认如果他们想招募更多的学生,也许不是保守派,但也许左边的学生 |
| 524 | I've had plenty of them on my career in my career | 我职业生涯中有很多 |
| 525 | We just want a truly diverse perspective | 我们只是想要一个真正多样的视角 |
| 526 | And so that's the answer to your question and I know we'll get to audience questions | 所以这就是你问题的答案 我知道我们会得到观众的问题 |
| 527 | We're all interested in that but on the meritocracy point | 我们对此都感兴趣 但有功绩 |
| 528 | I would presume professor that if you believe in meritocracy as much as I do and | 我假设教授 如果你像我一样相信精英管理 |
| 529 | We do at heritage that you would then love a | 我们做遗产,你会爱上一个 |
| 530 | Piece of data from September 3rd | 9月3日的数据 |
| 531 | from just a few weeks ago, and that's the Treasury Department and IRS proposal to eliminate diversity equity and inclusion | 这是财政部和国税局提出的 取消多样性公平和包容的建议 |
| 532 | programs in higher education and | 高等教育和高等教育方案 |
| 533 | replace them with | 替换为 |
| 534 | race neutral programs that provide for | 提供种族中立程序 |
| 535 | accommodations for disadvantaged students based on | 贫困学生的住宿条件 |
| 536 | income | 收入 |
| 537 | Geography and first-generation status if you agree to that then man we could write an op-ed together and work together on it | 如果你同意的话 我们可以一起写一篇专栏 一起合作 |
| 538 | Well, here's the thing. | 是这样的 |
| 539 | I want to be very clear about that. | 我想非常清楚这一点。 |
| 540 | I love the idea of | 我喜欢这个想法 |
| 541 | recognizing first-gen students students coming from | 承认来自 |
| 542 | low income | 低收入 |
| 543 | communities geography all of that | 所有这一切 |
| 544 | We're both from the south and many universities, Louisiana and South Carolina many universities are underrepresented with respect to southern students | 我们都是南方人 很多大学 路易斯安那州和南卡罗来纳州 |
| 545 | But the fact of the matter is I don't believe in performative policy, right? | 但事实是,我不相信 执行政策,对不对? |
| 546 | So this whole idea of taking down DEI and putting up something else without looking at the actual consequences and results | 所以这个把DEI拿下来,放点别的 而不考虑实际后果和结果的想法 |
| 547 | That that's performative, but I want to look at my endorsement is not performative. | 那是有表演性的 但我想看看我的认可不是有表演性的 |
| 548 | It's very heartfelt | 这是非常衷心的 |
| 549 | I've argued for this right, but I also want to see I'd love to see heritage talk about some of | 我为这个权利而争论过 但我也想看看 遗产的谈论 |
| 550 | The preference is going to wealthy students some of the preference is going to the top 1% | 偏好是富裕学生,有些偏好是最高1% |
| 551 | The point being is I notice | 重点是我注意到了 |
| 552 | in your policy | 在您的政策中 |
| 553 | recommendations | 建议 |
| 554 | They're tilted they're tilted and they're not balanced with respect to | 他们倾斜了,他们不能平衡 |
| 555 | rates and | 汇率和汇率 |
| 556 | Acknowledging the fact that's discrimination in this country is real, right? | 承认这个国家的歧视是真实的,对吧? |
| 557 | So we haven't talked about we want to get to these student questions | 所以,我们还没讨论过我们想问学生的问题 |
| 558 | Yeah, I'm sorry. | 对不起 |
| 559 | I'm just gonna I'm just gonna cut this off apologies. | 我只是要去 只是要切断这个道歉。 |
| 560 | We're gonna start here and go around | 我们要从这里开始,绕过去 |
| 561 | Hi, I'm Zara. | 嗨,我是扎拉。 |
| 562 | I'm a sophomore at the college. | 我是大学的大二学生 |
| 563 | Thank you so much for both coming today | 谢谢你今天能来 |
| 564 | This has been like a really interesting conversation to listen in to | 这就像一个非常有趣的谈话 倾听 |
| 565 | So my question is a little bit more towards dr. Roberts, but I would also love to hear everyone's thoughts | 所以,我的问题 更接近罗伯茨博士, 但我也很想听到每个人的想法 |
| 566 | so it's mainly asking about the | 所以它主要是问关于 |
| 567 | Department of Education and the Heritage Foundation's opinions on policies for that and | 教育部和传统基金会关于这方面的政策的意见 |
| 568 | So you mentioned that the Department of Education currently is mediocre? | 所以,你提到教育部 目前是平庸的? |
| 569 | And I'm curious as to why eliminating it is the first solution | 我想知道为什么消除它是第一个解决方案 |
| 570 | I completely agree that there are many issues with education system in the US like for example | 我完全同意美国教育制度有很多问题 比如说 |
| 571 | I think the fact that in local governments the fact that taxes affect how much funding a | 我认为,在地方政府中,税收影响着一个 |
| 572 | Public school gets is a major issue that allows for more wealthy students to get better public education | 公立学校是一个大问题,可以让更多的富人接受更好的公共教育 |
| 573 | However, I don't understand why it should be eliminated | 但是,我不明白为什么应该取消它 |
| 574 | For example a project 25 is calling for a limiting the head start program for young children in poverty or discontinue title one | 例如,项目25呼吁限制贫困幼儿的头部启动方案,或停止标题一。 |
| 575 | That provides federal funding to schools serving low-income children | 向为低收入儿童服务的学校提供联邦资助 |
| 576 | But I'm I'm a little bit confused because you mentioned that we should promote diversity based on socioeconomic status | 但我有点困惑 因为你提到我们应该促进基于社会经济地位的多样性 |
| 577 | And these are policies that are currently doing that | 这些政策目前正在这样做。 |
| 578 | So I'm wondering what your thoughts are and considering the power and influence the Heritage Foundation currently has on policies that Trump administration is putting forward | 所以我想知道你们的想法是什么 考虑一下传统基金会 目前对川普政府 提出的政策的权力和影响 |
| 579 | Why is the Heritage Heritage Foundation not calling for more federal funding put into the Ed Department instead of for instance | 为什么传统遗产基金会不要求更多的联邦资金 投入到埃德部,而不是比如说 |
| 580 | For instance spending tens of billions on foreign wars | 例如,在对外战争中花费数百亿美元 |
| 581 | If you find the system mediocre, why break it down instead of build it up? | 如果你发现系统平庸,为什么要拆掉它而不是建立它? |
| 582 | Thank you, please try to answer concisely if you can | 谢谢,如果可以的话,请简单回答 |
| 583 | Okay, a lot of questions. | 有很多问题 |
| 584 | I know it's a lot my Catholic conscience intends to do this concisely | 我知道我的天主教良知 打算做这么多事情 |
| 585 | Thanks for being here ma'am. | 谢谢你能来 女士 |
| 586 | Thanks for your question | 谢谢你的问候 |
| 587 | Three bullet points. | 三弹点. |
| 588 | The first is and they may come across as sarcastic | 首先是,他们可能会像讽刺一样 |
| 589 | I don't mean them that but I'm trying to give the professor some time here, too | 我不是说他们 但我也想给教授一点时间 |
| 590 | The first is that if you look at the National Association of Economic Progress or | 第一,如果你看看全国经济进步协会,或者 |
| 591 | Association the | 协会 |
| 592 | educational attainment in every group | 每一群体的教育程度 |
| 593 | Socioeconomic racial ethnic since the creation of the Department of Education has done this there have been blips in time, but if you go | 教育局成立以来 社会经济种族的种族 已经这样做了 时不时地,但如果你去 |
| 594 | 1979 to 2024 it does that that's what's where the mediocre comment comes from and that's on behalf of everybody in America | 1979年到2024年,它确实如此,这就是平庸的评论来自何方 代表美国每个人 |
| 595 | I want everyone to succeed. | 我希望每个人都能成功。 |
| 596 | I'm a fifth-generation teacher. | 五代时师. |
| 597 | I only went to public schools. | 我只上过公立学校 |
| 598 | I'm a conservative not a libertarian | 我是保守派 不是自由主义者 |
| 599 | I want our public schools to be the best in the world | 我希望我们的公立学校是世界上最好的 |
| 600 | But the second thing is to your point and it's a fair one | 但第二件事是针对你,这是公平的 |
| 601 | Why not put more money there? | 为什么不多放点钱? |
| 602 | I'd like to spend a hell of a lot less money on foreign wars | 我想花很多钱去打仗 |
| 603 | I've been talking about that for five years in Washington | 我在华盛顿说了五年了 |
| 604 | So we agree on that because we have spent more money on it | 所以,我们同意这一点,因为我们花了更多的钱 |
| 605 | We spend either every year either the most per pupil in the world are among the top three per pupil in the world | 我们要么每年花 要么世界上每个学生最多 要么是世界前三名 |
| 606 | And we've gotten this even if I were to say I'm not going to ascribe motives and I happen to think that they're probably some | 我们得到了这一点,即使我说 我不会去描述 动机,我碰巧认为 他们可能是一些 |
| 607 | really bad intentions | 真正的恶意 |
| 608 | Among the teachers unions on this about perpetuating their unions rather than helping kids | 在教师工会中,关于维持其工会而不是帮助孩子的问题 |
| 609 | It's it's not working | 没用的 |
| 610 | And so what we've decided to do to answer your question at heritage is to endorse policy innovation and education | 所以,我们决定做 回答你的问题 在遗产 是认可政策创新和教育 |
| 611 | Universal savings accounts governor Doug Ducey is a fellow here. | 通用储蓄账户州长道格·杜塞是这里的一位同事. |
| 612 | He was standing in the back earlier great champion of this | 他站在后面 之前伟大的冠军 |
| 613 | You know who benefits from that poor kids and I'll save this story for later | 你知道谁从那些可怜的孩子那里受益 我以后会留这个故事 |
| 614 | But that's the thrust of your very legitimate question | 但这是你最合理的问题 |
| 615 | Do you mind if I just go to the next question or do you have something burning to say? | 你介意我问下个问题 还是你有些话要说? |
| 616 | I have something | 我有东西 |
| 617 | Briefly and I'll endeavor to like dr. Roberts speaking in terms of three points point one as a graduate of head start | 简而言之,我会努力喜欢罗伯茨博士 以三点一的成绩发言 作为头部的毕业生 |
| 618 | A | 页:1 |
| 619 | Poverty program created in | 贫穷方案 |
| 620 | 1960s with my father future father-in-law fighting so hard for head start in Mississippi ended up on the | 1960年代我父亲的岳父为了在密西西比州开始比赛而奋力奋斗 |
| 621 | Sovereignty Commission list which was a kind of | 主权委员会清单 |
| 622 | State-sponsored terrorist organization in the state of Mississippi. | 密西西比州国家赞助的恐怖组织. |
| 623 | I kind of care about the program. | 我有点在意这个计划 |
| 624 | Let us know. | 让我们知道。 |
| 625 | So while dr. Roberts has noted | 所以当Dr. 罗伯茨注意到 |
| 626 | the | 联合国 |
| 627 | Inefficiency and and and an effectiveness of the Department of Education the fact of the matter is | 教育部效率不高,效率不高。 |
| 628 | Headstart has improved the lives of literally millions of children head start based on any number of studies improves | 根据任何研究,头条改善了数百万儿童头条的生活。 |
| 629 | Not only the intellectual well-being of the child the cognition skills of the child the reading and literacy | 不仅是儿童的智力福利、儿童的认知技能、阅读和识字 |
| 630 | Abilities of the child but also the parents right and number two when we look at the authorizing legislation | 儿童的能力,但当我们审查授权立法时,父母的权利及第二位 |
| 631 | For the Department of Education on the first page it says very clearly the Department of Education recognizes that | 教育部在第一页非常明确地说,教育部认识到: |
| 632 | Governor's local schools and states are in the lead, right? | 州长的地方学校和州都领先 对吧? |
| 633 | So if you have any problems with education in this country, let's look at the governor's not merely the federal government | 所以,如果你对这个国家的教育有任何问题, 让我们看看州长的不只是联邦政府 |
| 634 | Okay | 还好 |
| 635 | and then point number three on the first page of the authorizing legislation is a | 授权立法的第一页第三点是 |
| 636 | Mandate to the Department of Education to look out for special needs children for look to look out for children who are facing discrimination | 责成教育部照顾有特殊需要的儿童,照顾面临歧视的儿童 |
| 637 | The point being here is why throw out the baby with the bathwater and throwing the parents out with the baby | 重点是为什么把孩子和浴水一起扔出去 把父母和孩子一起扔出去 |
| 638 | All right. | 好吧,我们走。 |
| 639 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 640 | Good evening. | 边 |
| 641 | I appreciate you joining us here tonight. | 非常感谢你今晚能来 |
| 642 | Dr. Roberts | 罗伯茨博士 |
| 643 | Can you talk to us a little bit about how you understand? | 你能跟我们谈谈你怎么理解的吗? |
| 644 | Louisiana requiring the Ten Commandments to be displayed in K through 12 schools and how you understand the separation of church and state today | 路易斯安那州要求通过12所学校在K展示十诫 以及你如何理解今天教会和州之间的分离 |
| 645 | Yes, thanks for the question | 是的,谢谢你的提问 |
| 646 | I understand the separation of church and state as an early American historian as a very noble attempt | 我理解教会和国家分离 是一个早期的美国历史学家 一个非常崇高的尝试 |
| 647 | By the government to make sure that there wouldn't be one established religion | 由政府确保不会有一个既定的宗教 |
| 648 | But also to make sure that government wouldn't be involved in religion | 也是为了保证政府不会涉入宗教 |
| 649 | so for example when I was leading Wyoming Catholic College and the Obama administration told us that we would have to sign on to a | 例如,当我领导怀俄明天主教学院时,奥巴马政府告诉我们,我们必须签署一个 |
| 650 | healthcare policy, which is a | 保健政策,即 |
| 651 | Violation of one of our core understandings of human sexuality | 违反我们对人类性行为的核心理解 |
| 652 | They said you darn well better sign it or you're not going to get federal funding | 他们说你最好签个字 否则你得不到联邦资助 |
| 653 | And so we refuse the federal funding and then they set the accreditation cartel after us through the Department of Education | 所以我们拒绝联邦资助 然后他们通过教育部 设立认证卡特尔 |
| 654 | So it's really important especially for really well educated intelligent students at Harvard to know that the common | 尤其对于哈佛大学受过良好教育的 聪明学生来说 了解这个常识是非常重要的 |
| 655 | Understanding of the separation of church and state has been twisted a hundred eighty degrees from its original intent | 对教会与国家分离的理解 已经扭曲了一百八十度 |
| 656 | It's actually to protect religion. | 实际是保护宗教. |
| 657 | The second is and as a native Louisiana, and it's wonderful that there are the Ten Commandments in schools | 第二种是作为路易斯安那州的土著 学校里有十诫真是太棒了 |
| 658 | It's wonderful that it's in in Texas | 在德克萨斯州真好 |
| 659 | We are a nation built on Christian and Jewish values primarily and it's from those values that we actually have this understanding of religious liberty | 我们是一个以基督教和犹太教价值观为主要基础的民族,正是从这些价值观出发,我们才真正了解宗教自由。 |
| 660 | That informed the separation of church and state | 教会和邦之间的分离 |
| 661 | Good evening | 边 |
| 662 | My name is Mike. | 我叫麦克 |
| 663 | I'm a southerner. | 我是南方人,我是个南方人 |
| 664 | I'm a 20-year veteran. | 我是20岁的老兵 |
| 665 | I'm disabled. | 我残疾了 |
| 666 | Thanks for your service. | 谢谢你的服务。 |
| 667 | I'm | и琌 |
| 668 | and | 和 |
| 669 | Historically a D student I am here because of the diversity equity and inclusion | 历史上我是一个D级学生,因为 多样性的公平和包容 |
| 670 | Where in America does a meritocracy as you want to define it exist? | 在美国,你想要定义的精英统治在哪里存在? |
| 671 | every state and county in this country, which doesn't mean that it's categorical or universal and | 这个国家的每个州和郡, 这并不意味着它是绝对的或普遍的和 |
| 672 | The fact that there are exceptions to something that is more. | 事实上,有些事情是例外的。 |
| 673 | I mean, this is just objectively true in spite of | 我的意思是,这只是 客观上真实的,尽管 |
| 674 | Difficult circumstances adversity tragedies that we all have | 困难的环境 逆境悲剧 我们都有 |
| 675 | Apparently including you my friend and I'm sorry about that | 显然包括你 我的朋友,我很抱歉 |
| 676 | But that doesn't mean that when you look at the data that professor Brooks opened this | 但这并不意味着当你看 数据布鲁克斯教授打开这个 |
| 677 | This debate wanting us to home in on there is in the last 200 years | 这场辩论让我们回到过去200年 |
| 678 | No place on earth where there is a higher percentage of the polity that has actually experienced those goals | 世界上没有哪个地方有更高比例的政体真正经历过这些目标 |
| 679 | unfortunately | 很遗憾 |
| 680 | Maybe because of the human condition maybe because of obviously | 可能因为人的状况 可能因为很明显 |
| 681 | Transgressions of evil and injustice in our own country's history that has happened | 在我国历史上发生的邪恶和不公正现象 |
| 682 | But that doesn't mean that the larger reality isn't happening and may I know this | 但这并不意味着 更大的现实没有发生 并且也许我知道这一点 |
| 683 | With respect to the US military, I think it's important for us to to note that this there no | 关于美国军方,我认为重要的是我们要指出: |
| 684 | Corners of the country where there's perfect meritocracy, but the military does offer certain meritocratic lessons | 拥有完美精英统治权的国家的角落, 但军方确实提供了一些优秀的教训 |
| 685 | So when we think about Truman's order to desegregate the military opening the doors of the military | 所以,当我们想到杜鲁门的命令 解除军队的隔离 打开军队的大门 |
| 686 | To people from all the country all across the country most particularly black people who fought for the right? | 给全国各地最特别为权利而战的黑人? |
| 687 | To die for their country | 为了祖国而死 |
| 688 | The US military got better | 美军变好了 |
| 689 | Right to the extent that I believe in militaries. | 以我所相信的军国主义程度而言 |
| 690 | I'm a Gandhi and I believe in non-violence | 我是甘地人,我相信非暴力 |
| 691 | So but to the extent I believe in militaries as somebody born at Fort Bliss whose father was an army officer | 所以,但从我所相信的程度上来说, 军队是一个出生在布莱斯堡的人, 他的父亲是一个军官 |
| 692 | And his brother was 82nd Airborne | 他的哥哥是第82空降师 |
| 693 | I | 一、导 言 |
| 694 | Believe the military officers useful lessons | 相信军官们的教训是有用的 |
| 695 | meritocracy comes about at the point of being off sometimes be democratically compelled and so | 才华横溢有时是民主强迫的 |
| 696 | Dr. Roberts likes to praise the progress of America, but sometime doesn't credit the progress coming at the point of pain and | 罗伯茨博士喜欢赞美美国的进步, 但有时并不值得称赞 在痛苦和 |
| 697 | struggle | 斗争 |
| 698 | Good evening. | 边 |
| 699 | My name is Hannah. | 我叫汉娜。 |
| 700 | I'm a first-year master public policy student here at the Kennedy School | 我是肯尼迪学校的一年级公共政策硕士生 |
| 701 | I wanted to drill down a little bit into the topic of language as it relates to | 我想深入谈一下语言问题,因为它涉及到 |
| 702 | Diversity equity and inclusion and I'd love to hear both of your thoughts on what you see the role of language | 多样性的公平和包容 我很想听听你对语言作用的看法 |
| 703 | In advancing both your sort of types of policies around this issue. | 在推进你们关于这个问题的政策方面。 |
| 704 | I've gone first the last couple of times | 我前几次都走了 |
| 705 | for you, I think language is incredibly important particularly when | 对你来说,我觉得语言非常重要 尤其是当 |
| 706 | in recent years, we've seen | 近年来,我们已经看到 |
| 707 | Language and acronyms weaponize | 语言和缩写武器化 |
| 708 | Right. | 对 |
| 709 | So when DEI can be invoked as a political obscenity | 所以当DEI可以被当作政治污秽 |
| 710 | right when we have people referring to Justice Kataji Brown Jackson a | 当我们有人提到卡塔吉·布朗·杰克逊法官时 |
| 711 | graduate of this university as a DEI hire | 毕业于这所大学 作为DEI雇佣 |
| 712 | What that suggests to me as a civil rights leader and an advocate is that we have to be thoughtful in terms of the language | 作为民权领袖和代言人,这意味着我们必须从语言的角度来思考 |
| 713 | We use and the language we defend | 我们使用的语言和我们捍卫的语言 |
| 714 | so I am one of these people I | 所以我就是这些人之一 |
| 715 | wasn't for | 不是为了 |
| 716 | Harvard City anything with respect to diversity in other words when we went to the Supreme Court and defended affirmative action | 哈佛市关于多样性的一切 换句话说,当我们去最高法院 为平权行动辩护时 |
| 717 | We stood behind diversity and only a few years later. | 我们支持多样性,仅在几年后。 |
| 718 | There's there's some waffling going on somebody needs this | 有一些华夫饼正在发生 有人需要这个 |
| 719 | I'm not one of those people. | 我不是那种人 |
| 720 | I believe we have to defend our virtues defend our language and not allow our | 我认为我们必须捍卫我们的美德 捍卫我们的语言,不允许我们 |
| 721 | Not allow the words to be poisoned in our mouths as we speak it | 我们说话的时候 不准把那些话毒掉 |
| 722 | Corrupts our ability to speak truthfully candidly and persuasively. | 破坏我们坦率和有说服力地说真话的能力。 |
| 723 | I think in a setting of higher education | 我觉得在高等教育的环境下 |
| 724 | the most important thing to remember about language is | 记住语言最重要的事情是 |
| 725 | the intended purpose of | 预定目的 |
| 726 | a university | 大学 |
| 727 | Which I won't go into the etymology because time is waning | 我不会进入病理科 因为时间越来越少 |
| 728 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 729 | You're welcome | 不用谢 |
| 730 | But the intention is the intellectual pursuit of the truth | 但用意是理智追求真理 |
| 731 | capital T | 资本T |
| 732 | Which we all can come to know | 我们都知道 |
| 733 | Intellectually John Henry Newman wrote about this and you don't have to be Catholic to appreciate that | 知识上约翰·亨利·纽曼写道这一点,你不必是天主教徒才能欣赏 |
| 734 | it's it's it's what inspired the founding of this very university and | 正是它激发了这所大学的成立 |
| 735 | What's happened for a lot of reasons not just? | 发生什么的原因很多 不只是原因? |
| 736 | because of the left but different problems on the right, which is a | 因为右边有左但不同的问题,这就是 |
| 737 | Fascination with work skills rather than the intellectual pursuit of truth is that we have weaponized language and | 对工作技能的迷恋,而不是对真理的智力追求,就是我们把语言武器化了 |
| 738 | I have no doubt that language is weaponized by both sides. | 我毫不怀疑,语言被双方武器化。 |
| 739 | I work in Washington every day | 我每天都在华盛顿工作 |
| 740 | But it's incumbent upon all of us in this gathering | 但这次聚会是我们所有人的责任 |
| 741 | Regardless of your politics regardless of what you want to do in life to say | 无论你的政治 不论你想做什么 |
| 742 | Let's as I think we have both appealed to and thank you for doing that my friend | 让我们像我想,我们都呼吁 和感谢你做我的朋友 |
| 743 | Intellectual honesty intellectual sincerity we're in a debate and sometimes it might even be fiery can still be civil in that | 我们正处在一场辩论之中 有时甚至可能很火爆 |
| 744 | But let's be sure that we don't allow language in higher education to be more politicized than it already has been | 但是,让我们确定,我们不 允许语言在高等教育 政治化比它已经 |
| 745 | I would add that of course | 我当然要补充 |
| 746 | Something most of you will disagree with because of the involvement over involvement of the federal government in it | 你们多数人会不同意 因为联邦政府介入其中 |
| 747 | all right, I'm gonna squeeze in one more question apologies to those we didn't get to but I | 好吧,我要再问一个问题 向那些我们没有得到的道歉,但我 |
| 748 | Employ you to answer briefly so we have time for closing remarks too. | 请你简短地回答,所以我们也有时间作结束发言。 |
| 749 | Okay, and and quick a quick question, too | 好吧,还有一个快速的问题,太 |
| 750 | Yeah, of course. | 当然 |
| 751 | My name is Julian. | 我的名字是朱利安。 |
| 752 | Thank you guys both for being here | 谢谢你们两位光临 |
| 753 | I'm a little disappointed that we can't stick on specific examples | 我有点失望 我们不能坚持具体的例子 |
| 754 | I'll offer you a hypothetical you can see the kind of skin color diversity. | 我给你一个假设,你可以看到 那种肤色多样性。 |
| 755 | We have currently with the previous | 我们目前与前一个 |
| 756 | Diversity policies of the federal government, right? | 联邦政府的多样性政策,对不对? |
| 757 | Imagine they were all gone. | 想象一下他们都不见了 |
| 758 | What level of diversity here would you be willing to lose to sacrifice all of that? | 在这里,你会失去多少多样性来牺牲这一切? |
| 759 | Would you say okay, it's fine if one person didn't make it in or two or ten or half of this audience would not be here | 你说好吧,如果一个人没有成功... ...或者2... |
| 760 | Anymore what level is okay or not? | 还有哪个关卡还行吗? |
| 761 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 762 | Thanks for the question. | 谢谢你的问候 |
| 763 | I'm an historian and I don't mean this sarcastically | 我是个历史学家,我不是说这个讽刺 |
| 764 | So I deal with reality not hypotheticals, but policies are made and and the reality actually policies are made on reality | 所以,我处理现实 不是假设, 而是制定政策 和现实 实际政策 |
| 765 | So the reality is I love the pluralism and diversity in this room | 所以现实是我喜欢这个房间的多元化和多样性 |
| 766 | And that is an example of progress that we've made in society | 这是我们社会进步的一个例子 |
| 767 | That we are comfortable with that heritage and our saying that doesn't mean that somehow we're architects against all of that progress | 说我们很自在 说我们不是建筑师 |
| 768 | Actually, it means the exact opposite. | 实际上,它意味着完全相反。 |
| 769 | We want it to continue organically in the way that it has in recent years | 我们希望它继续以近年来的有机方式 |
| 770 | You're saying this is the result of organic policy. | 你说这是有机政策的结果 |
| 771 | I think that if you took away the policies | 我认为如果你拿走了保险 |
| 772 | then you're going to have a room that looks like this because the | 然后,你会有一个房间 看起来像这样,因为 |
| 773 | Americans have made such progress there. | 美国人在那里取得了这样的进步。 |
| 774 | Ah, okay. | 啊,还好。 |
| 775 | I want to I want to be clear here | 我想在这里说清楚 |
| 776 | I mean, there are great many | 我是说,有很多 |
| 777 | studies in cases that might be cited | 可援引案例的研究 |
| 778 | but | 不过 |
| 779 | There's no instance of democracy being on autopilot or diversity being on autopilot | 没有民主在自动驾驶上或多样性在自动驾驶上的例子 |
| 780 | My mother | 我妈妈 |
| 781 | Was 16 years old. | 16岁 |
| 782 | She went to South Carolina State College | 她去了南卡罗来纳州立大学 |
| 783 | And as a first year, she took it upon herself to make this country better by protesting against segregation | 第一年,她为了改善国家 抗议隔离 |
| 784 | She was firehosed. | 她被放火烧伤了 |
| 785 | I don't believe that the things that she stood for | 我不相信她支持的东西 |
| 786 | And the things that she fought for I could be secured | 她为我而战的事物可以保住 |
| 787 | Simply by any organic process or any autopilot that is not the case | 仅仅通过任何有机过程或任何非自动驾驶程序 |
| 788 | So I believe it's incumbent upon this generation to fight for the diversity in this room | 所以我相信这代人有责任为这个房间的多样性而斗争 |
| 789 | Right because I challenge my colleague on this. | 对,因为我挑战我的同事 |
| 790 | How can you have viewpoint diversity? | 你怎么能有观点多样性? |
| 791 | Without diversity among those who hold the views | 没有观点持有者的多样性 |
| 792 | Thank you | 谢谢 |
| 793 | I think we're gonna have to leave it there for questions | 我觉得我们得把它留在那里问问题了 |
| 794 | I would like to ask each to and there are so many things you could say | 我想问大家,你有很多话要说 |
| 795 | I'm sure but maybe you could close this out by giving us giving the audience one one thought you would like them to leave here | 我敢肯定,但也许你可以结束这个 通过给我们的观众一个想法 你希望他们离开这里。 |
| 796 | with | 与 |
| 797 | food I | 粮食一 |
| 798 | Invited you you go first. | 请您先走 |
| 799 | Okay | 还好 |
| 800 | Fair I'll close with this story and I'll make it quick Laura. | 公平,我会接近这个故事 我会使它快速劳拉。 |
| 801 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 802 | By the way, how about a round of applause for Laura for? | 顺便说一下,为劳拉鼓掌怎么样? |
| 803 | I | 一、导 言 |
| 804 | Started a school in my hometown of Lafayette, Louisiana Cajun place | 在我家乡路易斯安那卡琼的拉法耶特 开办一所学校 |
| 805 | racially diverse place whites and african-americans primarily and we participated in what was one of the early | 白人和非洲裔美国人主要是种族不同的地方 我们参与了早期的 |
| 806 | Universal or largely almost universal school choice programs in the country | 全国普及或基本普及的学校选择方案 |
| 807 | It was imperfect and implementation and so on but it was it was perfect and intentioned by then governor Bobby Jindal a friend of this | 它不完美 执行等等... ...但它是完美的... |
| 808 | institution and | 机构及 |
| 809 | We went all in | 我们全进去了 |
| 810 | At my school because we believed given our faith that we had a moral obligation to help poor people | 在我的学校,因为我们相信 我们有道德义务帮助穷人 |
| 811 | regardless of what they look like truly and | 无论他们长什么样子 |
| 812 | I remember about nine months into the first year | 我记得第一年大概九个月 |
| 813 | This is about policy on the ground the sidewalk level not the hypothetical nine months in | 这是关于地面的政策 人行道平面 不是假设的九个月 |
| 814 | Young lady came up to me mom of a student. | 年轻的女士来找我 一个学生的妈妈。 |
| 815 | I think was in fourth or fifth or sixth grade | 我想是在四、五、六年级 |
| 816 | african-american lady and she had tears in her eyes and | 非裔美国女士和她的眼泪, |
| 817 | I thought I'm a son of the south. | 以为南天子. |
| 818 | I said, oh my gosh. | 我说,我的天哪。 |
| 819 | What what have we done unintentionally? | 我们无意中做了什么? |
| 820 | I mean, this is these are great people at the school the kids are real. | 我的意思是,这是这些伟大的人 在学校的孩子是真实的。 |
| 821 | What have we done unintentionally and she came up to me | 我们无意中做了什么 她来找我 |
| 822 | She said dr. Roberts. | 她说罗伯茨博士 |
| 823 | I have to tell you something about my son | 我要告诉你一些关于我儿子的事 |
| 824 | This school and I say this not for self aggrandizement | 这所学校和我说这不是为了自我加重 |
| 825 | This school has changed his life forever | 这所学校永远改变了他的生活 |
| 826 | But it's also changed the lives of everyone in my family and I hope future generations and we didn't have a policy conversation | 但这也改变了我家里每个人的生活 我希望我们的子孙后代 |
| 827 | So I want to be clear. | 所以我想说清楚 |
| 828 | I'm not putting words in her mouth about the policy | 我不会在她嘴里说政策 |
| 829 | but the conclusion that I have drawn since then and I | 但从那时起我和我得出的结论 |
| 830 | Followed him for a few years thereafter as I moved on to other things was that that race neutral policy | 之后跟随他几年 当我转向其他事情时 种族中立政策 |
| 831 | emphasizing socioeconomics and geography and | 强调社会经济、地理和 |
| 832 | not first-generation status because we Kate or k-12 worked and so | 不是第一代的状态,因为我们凯特或K -12工作,所以 |
| 833 | When we at heritage when I talk about holding up those programs | 当我们在传统,当我谈论 暂停那些节目 |
| 834 | It's not to deny the injustice that has happened in this country's history | 不是否认这个国家历史上发生的不公正 |
| 835 | I'm grateful to my colleague for being so intellectually honest on that | 我很感激我的同事 这么聪明的诚实 |
| 836 | That's usually what I have to confront as a conservative policy person who leads the Heritage Foundation is that we're racists | 通常我不得不面对 保守政策人士 谁领导传统基金会 是,我们是种族主义者 |
| 837 | Every time we wake up and I know that you know, that's not the case. | 每次我们醒来的时候 我知道你知道 情况并非如此 |
| 838 | So I'm grateful for that | 所以,我很感激这一点 |
| 839 | This is an honest-to-goodness | 这是诚实对善 |
| 840 | Policy disagreement about the kinds of policies that work. | 关于哪些政策是可行的,在政策上存在分歧。 |
| 841 | Thanks for listening. | 谢谢你的倾听。 |
| 842 | Well, first of all, I should say lastly | 首先,我应该最后说 |
| 843 | let me express my appreciation to dr. Roberts for coming to | 让我向Dr. 罗伯茨来 |
| 844 | Harvard and | 哈佛大学 |
| 845 | participating in this | 参与这项工作 |
| 846 | debate | 辩论 |
| 847 | Let me express my appreciation to dr. Roberts for coming to | 让我向Dr. 罗伯茨来 |
| 848 | I'm a civil rights lawyer and one of the people who has most inspired me is a man by the name | 我是个民权律师 其中一个最能启发我的人 就是这个名字的人 |
| 849 | of Charles Hamilton Houston, who was a World War I veteran, drummed out of the military | 查尔斯・汉密尔顿・休斯顿, 他曾是第一次世界大战的老兵, |
| 850 | as a consequence of racial discrimination. | 种族歧视的后果。 |
| 851 | He was the first black member of the Harvard Law Review, a generation before Barack Obama | 他是哈佛法律评论第一位黑人成员,在巴拉克·奥巴马之前的一代人 |
| 852 | became president of the Harvard Law Review. | 成为哈佛法律评论社社长. |
| 853 | He leaves Harvard, goes down to Washington D.C. to Howard University Law School and creates | 他离开哈佛,去华盛顿 霍华德大学法学院和创建 |
| 854 | a, what came to be known as a citadel of civil rights. | a. 所谓的公民权利堡。 |
| 855 | One of his students was a woman by the name of Pauli Murray, who was rejected for admission | 他的一位学生是一位叫Pauli Murray的女性,她被拒绝入学 |
| 856 | to the University of North Carolina because of her race being black. | 北卡罗来纳大学 因为她的种族是黑人 |
| 857 | She was rejected by Harvard Law School because she was a woman. | 她因是女性而被哈佛法学院拒绝. |
| 858 | Thurgood Marshall invited her to be a part of his class and she, as a student, crafted | Thurgood Marshall邀请她参加他的班级 她作为一个学生 精心策划 |
| 859 | the strategy that animated Brown v. Board of Education that literally changed the legal | 动画"布朗诉教育委员会" 改变了法律的策略 |
| 860 | trajectory of this country. | 这个国家的轨迹。 |
| 861 | Why is that important? | 为什么这很重要? |
| 862 | It's important because Brown v. Board of Education led to the Civil Rights Act, which abolished | 这很重要 因为布朗诉教育委员会 导致《民权法案》废除 |
| 863 | discrimination domestically, which led to the Immigration Act, which abolished discrimination | 国内歧视,导致《移民法》,废除了歧视 |
| 864 | internationally in terms of immigration quotals. | 国际移民配额。 |
| 865 | So when you look around this room and count the number of faces, the diversity of the | 所以,当你环顾四周 和数面数, 多样性 |
| 866 | faces here, you can thank a black lawyer, a black woman who experienced discrimination | 面对这里,你可以感谢一个黑人律师, 一个黑人女人 谁经历了歧视 |
| 867 | and who understood that if we want a diverse, racially diverse democracy, we have to fight | 并且他们明白,如果我们想要一个多样化的,种族多样化的民主,我们就必须战斗 |
| 868 | for it, every day, all the time. | 为了它,每天,所有的时间。 |
| 869 | And we fight, not merely with litigation, but with a sense of resilience and resolve | 我们的战斗,不仅仅是通过诉讼, 并且有弹性感和决心 |
| 870 | and hopefulness. | 还有希望 |
| 871 | So if you leave with anything, leave with a sense of hopefulness. | 所以,如果你带着任何东西离开, 带着希望感离开。 |
| 872 | So with that said, thank you. | 所以说,谢谢你。 |
| 873 | Well, I was supposed to ask our audience to thank our panelists, but I think we've already | 好吧,我本来应该请我们的观众 感谢我们的小组成员, 但我认为我们已经 |
| 874 | done that. | 这样做。 |
| 875 | Thank you both so much for this really, really interesting and engaging conversation. | 非常感谢你们这次 真正,真正有趣 和接触性的对话。 |
| 876 | Now going to invite up Professor Julia Minson to the stage to transition us to our next part. | 现在请朱莉娅·明森教授上台 把我们转到下一部分 |
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