在曼彻斯特地区绿党击败工党如何改变英国政治 | 2026.0
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:01 | This isn't just a nightmare for the Labour Party. | 这不仅仅是工党的噩梦 |
| 0:05 | It is the worst type of sit-bolt upright | 这是最差劲的直立坐椅 |
| 0:08 | in the middle of the night, sweating and screaming nightmares, because it blows a hole in the | 半夜,流汗和尖叫的噩梦, 因为它吹出一个洞 |
| 0:15 | Keir Starmer希望坚持在议会的席位上 | |
| 0:19 | next general election, which was to turn to all the people who don't want Reform UK winning | 下届大选,将转向所有不希望改革英国获胜的人 |
| 0:24 | seats in power and say to them the only way of avoiding that is by voting Labour. | 并告诉他们唯一能避免这种情况的方法就是投票选举劳工。 |
| 0:30 | But | 不过 |
| 0:30 | it wasn't Labour who were the also rams here that actually defeated Reform. | 并不是工党才是真正打败改革派的 |
| 0:34 | It was the | 是那个 |
| 0:36 | Greens. | 绿种. |
展开字幕全文（415 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | This isn't just a nightmare for the Labour Party. | 这不仅仅是工党的噩梦 |
| 2 | It is the worst type of sit-bolt upright | 这是最差劲的直立坐椅 |
| 3 | in the middle of the night, sweating and screaming nightmares, because it blows a hole in the | 半夜,流汗和尖叫的噩梦, 因为它吹出一个洞 |
| 4 | Keir Starmer希望坚持在议会的席位上 | |
| 5 | next general election, which was to turn to all the people who don't want Reform UK winning | 下届大选,将转向所有不希望改革英国获胜的人 |
| 6 | seats in power and say to them the only way of avoiding that is by voting Labour. | 并告诉他们唯一能避免这种情况的方法就是投票选举劳工。 |
| 7 | But | 不过 |
| 8 | it wasn't Labour who were the also rams here that actually defeated Reform. | 并不是工党才是真正打败改革派的 |
| 9 | It was the | 是那个 |
| 10 | Greens. | 绿种. |
| 11 | And so people to the left of Keir Starmer in his own party now are going to | 所以在基尔·斯塔默的左边的人 现在将会 |
| 12 | be saying to him, you need to start preaching more to the left. | 你要开始向左传教 |
| 13 | Forget what they see as | 忘记他们所看到的 |
| 14 | aping the anti-migrant tone of Reform. | a 塑造改革的反移民基调。 |
| 15 | You need to be uniting the left more and changing | 你要团结左翼 改变 |
| 16 | your tone and direction. | 你的语气和方向。 |
| 17 | And some of them are saying that they feel a wounded Keir Starmer | 他们之中有些人说,他们感到一个受伤的基尔·斯塔默 |
| 18 | is going to be easier to lean on, to pull in that direction. | 将更容易靠在,拉向这个方向。 |
| 19 | If he was looking for any | 如果他在寻找任何 |
| 20 | trace of comfort today, Keir Starmer, well, there were only familiar voices saying he | 今天的舒适感 基尔·斯塔默 只有熟悉的声音说他 |
| 21 | must go. | 必须去。 |
| 22 | But there are an awful lot of people behind the scenes saying it is now a done | 但很多人在幕后 都说这已经完成了 |
| 23 | deal that he will go. | 交易,他会去。 |
| 24 | They just haven't worked out how. | 他们只是还没想好怎么做 |
| 25 | One other thing for him to think | 还有一件事他想 |
| 26 | about, one of the advantages of these larger, what we may soon have to call legacy political | 关于,这些更大的优势之一, 我们可能很快要称之为政治遗产 |
| 27 | is that they're supposed to have amazing political operations. | 他们应该有惊人的政治行动 |
| 28 | But Labour, it seems, | 但工党,似乎, |
| 29 | didn't see this coming. | 没想到会这样 |
| 30 | Hannah Catherine Spencer is duly elected Member of Parliament for the | 汉娜·凯瑟琳·斯宾塞正式当选国会议员 |
| 31 | Gorton and Denton constituency. | 戈尔顿和丹顿选区. |
| 32 | Labour said this could not happen and prayed it wouldn't. | 劳勃说这不可能发生 祈祷不会发生 |
| 33 | The Greens defeated Reform. | 绿军击败改革军. |
| 34 | The job Keir Starmer said only Labour could pull off. | 基尔·斯塔默说只有工党才能成功 |
| 35 | And the new | 还有新的 |
| 36 | Green MP sounded like an old-style Labour class warrior. | 绿色的MP听起来像一个老式的劳动阶级战士. |
| 37 | I've made clear my position | 我已经明确了自己的立场 |
| 38 | and my commitment to working-class communities, the community that I am from. | 以及我对工人阶级社区的承诺 我出身的社区 |
| 39 | People in their | 这些人 |
| 40 | thousands told me on the doorsteps and at the ballot box that what we are sick of is | 上千人在门前和投票箱里告诉我 我们讨厌的是 |
| 41 | being let down and looked down on, that we are sick of our hard work making other people | 我们厌倦了努力让别人 |
| 42 | rich. | 有钱 |
| 43 | Hannah Spencer barely mentioned Green issues in her acceptance speech, the broader | Hannah Spencer在接受演讲时 很少提到绿色问题 范围越广 |
| 44 | radical agenda. | 激进的议程。 |
| 45 | The party's leader, Zach Polanski, now road tested triumphantly. | 该党的领导人扎克·波兰斯基(Zach Polanski),现在的道路经受了成功的考验. |
| 46 | Keir Starmer | 凯尔·斯塔默 |
| 47 | in defeat repeated his campaign appeals. | 在失败中,他重复了他的竞选呼吁。 |
| 48 | I will keep on fighting for those people for | 我将继续为这些人而战 |
| 49 | as long as I've got breath in my body. | 只要我体内有呼吸 |
| 50 | I will also fight against extremes in politics, on | 我也会对抗政治上的极端 |
| 51 | the right and the left, parties who want to tear our country apart. | 左右两侧的政党 想要分裂我们的国家 |
| 52 | Is that a good tactic | 这战术不错吗? |
| 53 | to label thousands of voters as extremists? | 将成千上万的选民称为极端分子? |
| 54 | It's a dreadful tactic. | 这是一个可怕的战术。 |
| 55 | Labour could have | 劳动可以 |
| 56 | won back traditional Labour voters by being a better government, not by calling parties | 通过一个更好的政府,而不是通过召集政党,赢得了传统的工党选民 |
| 57 | names. | 名称。 |
| 58 | Reform UK's vote in unpromising political terrain suggested their opinion poll ratings | 改革英国对无希望政治地形的投票, |
| 59 | are accurate, their candidates not entirely accepting defeat. | 他们的人选并不完全接受失败 |
| 60 | I don't think the progressives | 我不认为进步者 |
| 61 | beat us. | 打败我们。 |
| 62 | I think the progressives were told how to vote and I think what you saw was | 我认为进步者被告知如何投票 我想你看到的是 |
| 63 | a coalition of Islamists and woke progressives that came together to dominate a constituency. | 一个伊斯兰主义者和觉醒进步主义者的联盟 他们聚集在一起,统治一个选区。 |
| 64 | The Tory leader, Kevin Bainrock, said Keir Starmer was now finished but the Tories got | 托里领袖凯文·班罗克说凯尔·斯塔默现在已经完工了 但托里家族却得到了 |
| 65 | their worst ever by-election result last night and some detect still more signs that the | 他们昨晚的补选结果最差 有些人还发现更多迹象表明 |
| 66 | century-long two-party system may be crumbling. | 长达一个世纪的两党制可能正在崩溃。 |
| 67 | Just as the combined strength of the Labour | 就像工党的实力 |
| 68 | and Conservative Party votes plummeted in the Caerphilly Senedd by-election last year | 保守党的选票在去年的凯菲利补选中暴跌 |
| 69 | from 63% when last contested to a puny 13, and the Runcorn parliamentary by-election | 从上次竞争时的63%到13分 以及Runcorn议会补选 |
| 70 | saw the combined Labour-Tory vote fall from nearly 70 to well under half the votes, yesterday | 工党-Tory的合并投票从近70票降到不到一半票 昨天 |
| 71 | saw what are traditionally called the two main parties share of the vote down from 60% | 传统意义上的两大政党比例从60%下降 |
| 72 | in the general election to just over a quarter. | 在大选中 仅仅超过四分之一。 |
| 73 | If Labour and the Conservatives ceased to | 如果工党和保守党停止 |
| 74 | be seen as the parties that can win, it's like Tinkerbell in Peter Pan. | 就像彼得潘的叮当 |
| 75 | Tinkerbell's | 小叮当的 |
| 76 | power comes from people's belief in her. | 权力来源于人们对她的信任. |
| 77 | If people cease to believe in Labour as a party | 如果人们不再相信工党 |
| 78 | that can win here, that can win there, that can win everywhere, they can go very quickly | 能够在这里获胜,能够在那里获胜, 能够在所有地方获胜, 他们可以去非常快 |
| 79 | from winning everywhere to losing everywhere. | 从赢到输 |
| 80 | Same with the Conservatives, which is what | 保守派也一样,这就是 |
| 81 | happened to the Liberals in the 1920s. | 发生在1920年代的自由党。 |
| 82 | This could be looked back upon as another such | 这件事可以再看一遍 |
| 83 | turning point. | 转弯 |
| 84 | You're not sorry not to be the candidate, Andy? | 你不后悔不成为候选人吗,安迪? |
| 85 | No, we've got a brilliant candidate | 不,我们有一个出色的候选人 |
| 86 | and she hasn't put a foot wrong, she's been out every day, she's done us proud, hasn't | 她没弄错脚 她每天都在外面 她让我们感到骄傲 没有 |
| 87 | she Lucy? | 她露西吗? |
| 88 | Yeah, absolutely. | 当然 |
| 89 | We're all one team here and Angerley is going to be right | 我们都是一队人,安格利是对的 |
| 90 | in the middle of the team. | 在团队中间。 |
| 91 | The Green Party leader said he'd been delighted when Keir Starmer blocked his potential leadership | 绿党领袖说,当基尔·斯塔默阻止他潜在的领导时,他很高兴 |
| 92 | challenger Andy Burnham running in this seat. | 挑战者安迪·伯纳姆就在这个座位上奔跑 |
| 93 | I'll be completely honest, when Andy Burnham wasn't selected I punched the air and I thought | 我将完全诚实, 当安迪·伯纳姆没有被选中时,我拳打气,我想 |
| 94 | it's very probable we can win this. | 我们很可能会赢 |
| 95 | You wanted Andy Burnham to run in this seat so that he could, if not immediately, pretty | 你想让安迪·伯纳姆坐在这个座位上 这样他就能,如果不是立即,漂亮 |
| 96 | soon replace Keir Starmer. | 很快取代基尔·斯塔默. |
| 97 | 没有他在议会, Keir Stamer 刚刚继续, | |
| 98 | battered, defeated? | 被打,被打败? |
| 99 | Well that's certainly how it looks at the moment, isn't it? | 嗯,它当然是 眼下的样子,不是吗? |
| 100 | Frankly, there are no real | 老实说,没有真实的 |
| 101 | solid candidates inside Parliament whose names are being mooted that I would support. | 我支持他们的名字。 |
| 102 | We need to find a way of getting Burnham into Parliament. | 我们得想办法让伯纳姆进入议会 |
| 103 | Labour strategists now have to worry about a whole new electoral phenomenon, Greenwall | 劳工战略家们现在必须担心 一个全新的选举现象,格林沃尔 |
| 104 | seats. | 席位。 |
| 105 | Our analysis suggests there could be as many as 50 Labour constituencies in England, | 我们的分析表明,英格兰可能有多达50个工党选区, |
| 106 | with younger populations, many who are renting, some with Greens already in second place, | 年轻人口, 许多人租房, 有些绿地已经排第二, |
| 107 | which could fall dramatically to the Greens, much like Gorton did, including the seats | 和葛顿一样 包括座位 |
| 108 | of the Deputy Prime Minister, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party and the Prime Minister | 副总理、工党副领袖和总理 |
| 109 | himself. | 他本人 |
| 110 | The Green vote is very concentrated in particular demographics, ethnic minorities, young people, | 绿色的投票主要集中在特定的人口 少数民族 年轻人 |
| 111 | progressive graduates, and all of those groups tend to cluster together. | 进步毕业生,所有这些群体往往聚集在一起。 |
| 112 | And here's the paradox. | 这就是悖论。 |
| 113 | Their tendency to cluster together is exactly why Labour has tended to marginalise these | 他们聚在一起的倾向 正是为什么工党 倾向于边缘化这些 |
| 114 | groups because it wasn't electorally efficient to focus on those voters in those seats. | 因为把精力集中在这些席位上的选民上,在选举中效率不高。 |
| 115 | They | 他们 |
| 116 | were going to win anyway. | 反正会赢的 |
| 117 | That same electoral calculus now favours the Greens rising very | 同样的选举计算结果也有利于绿党的崛起 |
| 118 | rapidly in these places because they can say to these voters, you're not being listened | 很快地在这些地方,因为他们可以对这些选民说, 你没有被倾听 |
| 119 | to, you're not being mobilised, you're being neglected by the Labour Party that represents | 你被工党忽略了 工党代表 |
| 120 | you around here, why not give somebody else a try? | 你在这里,为什么不给别人一个尝试? |
| 121 | It's a very disappointing result. | 这是一个非常令人失望的结果。 |
| 122 | Incumbent governments quite often get results like that | 执政政府经常得到这样的结果 |
| 123 | mid-term. | 中期。 |
| 124 | But this was not a normal mid-term knockback. | 但这不是正常的中期打击。 |
| 125 | Voters are shifting around as rarely before. | 选民们也像以前一样很少转身。 |
| 126 | Feebrile politics a challenge to any political leader, truly taxing for a Prime Minister | 费钱的政治是对任何政治领袖的挑战,真正要为总理征税 |
| 127 | with a divided party circling challengers and his ratings on the floor. | 一个分裂的政党 盘旋挑战者 和他的收视率在地板上。 |
| 128 | Well, our North of England correspondent Claire Fallon joins us from Manchester where she's | 我们的英格兰北部记者克莱尔·法伦从曼彻斯特来 |
| 129 | been trying to speak to the man blocked from running for Labour in Gorton and Denson. | 一直想和那个在Gorton和Denson 被阻止竞选工党的人说话 |
| 130 | Claire. | 克莱尔 |
| 131 | And that is why I'm in the centre of Manchester this evening, not in the constituency itself, | 所以我今晚在曼彻斯特市中心 而不是选区里 |
| 132 | 因为一个多小时前 Andy Burnham在台上 和The | |
| 133 | people who were gathered there. | 他们聚集在那里。 |
| 134 | Now straightforwardly, he was not here to talk about the by-election, | 现在直截了当地说,他不是来谈补选的, |
| 135 | a by-election in which he was blocked from standing. | 一次补选,他被阻止站立。 |
| 136 | And his people were absolutely insistent | 他的人民绝对坚持 |
| 137 | that he would not be doing any interviews, not taking any questions, that this was not | 他不会做任何面谈,不会回答任何问题, |
| 138 | what it was about. | 这是关于什么的。 |
| 139 | Instead, it was about the BRIT Awards, which are happening in Manchester | 而是在曼彻斯特举行的BrITE奖 |
| 140 | tomorrow night, and about the fringe work around that for upcoming artists from working | 明晚, 和周围的边缘工作 为即将到来的艺术家 从工作 |
| 141 | class backgrounds in the city. | 城市的阶级背景。 |
| 142 | But bear in mind, Andy Burnham, I think it's fair to say, | 但记住,安迪. 伯纳姆,我觉得应该说 |
| 143 | has a reputation for choosing his words very carefully and choosing when he says them. | 他有名气,非常小心地选择他的言语 选择他说话的时候 |
| 144 | So, up on that stage, as he was talking about working class talent, I think there was a | 所以,在那个舞台上, 当他谈论工人阶级的才能, 我认为有一个 |
| 145 | subtle but very clear indication of his views right now. | 他的观点现在有细微但非常清晰的表述 |
| 146 | We know it's getting harder sometimes for working class talent to break through into | 我们知道工人阶级的才华 越发难以突破 |
| 147 | the music industry. | 音乐行业。 |
| 148 | There is a class ceiling, and we've got a break that, haven't we? | 有一个阶级天花板, 我们有一个突破,不是吗? |
| 149 | Well | 这个嘛 |
| 150 | done to the BPI for putting it on for its fringe. | 做BPI 把它放在它的边缘。 |
| 151 | And you know me, I'm all in favour of helping | 你知道我,我赞成帮助 |
| 152 | people whose career paths are blocked. | 职业道路受阻的人 |
| 153 | So well done, BPI, that's just what we want to do. | 做得好,BPI,这就是我们想做的。 |
| 154 | Well, those words there from Andy Burnham, I am all in favour of helping people whose | 安迪·伯纳姆的话 我赞成帮助那些 |
| 155 | career paths are blocked. | 职业道路受阻。 |
| 156 | I think those words will absolutely focus minds on what he will | 我想这些话会把注意力完全集中在他想要的 |
| 157 | do next. | 下一个 |
| 158 | As for what the Reform Party will do next, bear in mind, when we started this | 至于改革党下一步要做什么 记住,当我们开始的时候 |
| 159 | campaign, they were really seen as being the frontrunners to challenge the Labour Party | 他们真正被认为是挑战工党的前锋 |
| 160 | in the constituency. | 在选区。 |
| 161 | Well, they've gone to the police today saying that they want an | 他们今天去警察局说 他们想要一个 |
| 162 | investigation into claims that have been made of family voting by an organisation that monitors | 调查由监测家庭投票的组织提出的诉求 |
| 163 | elections. | 选举。 |
| 164 | Police have told us that they are looking into that report that's been made. | 警方告诉我们 他们正在调查那份报告 |
| 165 | As for the Green Party and the new MP for Gorton and Denton, Hannah Spencer, Hannah the Plumber, | 至于绿党和新议员 戈顿和丹顿,汉娜·斯宾塞, 汉娜的管道工, |
| 166 | well it's almost been like the campaign hasn't ended. | 竞选活动几乎还没结束 |
| 167 | She's been on a relentless chain of events | 她一连串无情的事件 |
| 168 | and photos opt today ahead of going to Parliament next week. | 而照片选择今天 提前去议会下周。 |
| 169 | Claire Fallon in Manchester. | 曼彻斯特的克莱尔·法伦. |
| 170 | Well, | 那个 |
| 171 | earlier I spoke to the leader of the Green Party, Zach Polanski, and I asked him if this changes | 之前我和绿党领袖扎克·波兰斯基谈过 我问他这是否改变了 |
| 172 | his national ambitions. | 他的民族野心。 |
| 173 | It definitely does change our national ambitions, but those have been | 这确实改变了我们的民族野心,但那些是 |
| 174 | changing all the time anyway. | 总是在改变 |
| 175 | To give some context, when I was elected leader of the Green | 说说背景 当我当选绿色领袖时 |
| 176 | Party on September the 2nd, during that leadership campaign, we had about 55,000 members. | 9月2日的党,在领导运动期间,我们约有55,000名成员. |
| 177 | As I said, | 如我所说, |
| 178 | we're about to hit 200,000. | 我们就要打20万了 |
| 179 | We've also tripled in the opinion polls. | 我们的民意测验也增加了三倍 |
| 180 | But what I would say is | 但我会说 |
| 181 | that level of ambition has rapidly increased very quickly. | 这种雄心壮志迅速增长。 |
| 182 | Labour and the Tories are both attacking | 工党和工党都在进攻 |
| 183 | you as extremists, as people who try to sweep up the Muslim vote in this very unusual constituency | 你们是极端主义者, 那些试图扫荡穆斯林选票的人 在这个非常不寻常的选区 |
| 184 | by pressing the point on Gaza. | 将加沙问题按住。 |
| 185 | And A, that doesn't translate to every seat in the country, but B, | 和A,这不 翻译到全国的每一个席位, 但B, |
| 186 | takes us into a new era of divisive, they say, sectarian politics. | 他们说,这使我们进入分裂主义政治的新时代。 |
| 187 | I think those are deeply | 我觉得很深 |
| 188 | cynical attack lines from both the Labour Party and the Conservative Party. | 来自工党和保守党的愤世嫉俗的攻击线. |
| 189 | We've seen a genocide | 我们见过种族灭绝 |
| 190 | in Gaza that has been ongoing for years now. | 加沙的情况已持续多年。 |
| 191 | It's not just me that's calling it genocide, | 不只是我 称之为种族灭绝, |
| 192 | that's also including genocide scholars. | 包括种族灭绝学者 |
| 193 | So I think it's really important that we're morally | 所以,我觉得这真的很重要 我们道德 |
| 194 | consistent on that. | 这一点是一致的。 |
| 195 | On top of that, I think it's important to say I'm a Jewish man and one of five | 除此之外,我觉得必须说 我是个犹太人,五个人中的一个 |
| 196 | Jewish people have been in leadership positions in British politics. | 犹太人一直担任英国政治的领导职务. |
| 197 | I think anyone who cares | 我觉得谁在乎 |
| 198 | about morality and humanity has shown moral consistency in saying they don't want to vote | 关于道德和人性 已经表现出道德一致性 说他们不想投票 |
| 199 | for a party that is complicit or actively enabling that. | 对同谋方或积极促成该行为的一方而言。 |
| 200 | That's not the only conversations we were | 这不是我们唯一的谈话 |
| 201 | having on the ground. | 在地面上出现。 |
| 202 | People were largely concerned about their bills and lowering their bills, but | 人们主要关心他们的法案和降低的法案,但 |
| 203 | it is also true that people have deep concerns about the actions of this Labour government that | 人们确实对这个工党政府的行动深感关切。 |
| 204 | were also ongoing under the Conservative government too. | 在保守党政府领导下也正在进行之中。 |
| 205 | It seems likely that Labour could move to the | 似乎工党有可能向 |
| 206 | soft left seeming the ascendancy in the Labour Party. | 柔和的左翼似乎在工党中占据上风 |
| 207 | Might they win some of those voters back? | 他们能赢回一些选民吗? |
| 208 | Sure, that might make my job a little bit more difficult as Green Party leader, | 当然,这可能会让我的工作 有点困难 作为绿党领袖, |
| 209 | but actually, frankly, as a citizen of this country, I'd absolutely applaud that | 老实说 作为这个国家的公民 我绝对会鼓掌 |
| 210 | and look to work with them on that. | 并期待着与他们合作。 |
| 211 | That being said, I don't think there's any evidence that's | 这么说 我觉得没有证据 |
| 212 | the direction the Labour Party are going to move and I think they'll probably learn all the wrong | 工党将前进的方向 我认为他们可能会学到错误 |
| 213 | lessons from this. | 从中吸取教训。 |
| 214 | This is the same Labour Party that wanted to slash disability benefits that | 这是同一个工党 谁想要削减 残疾福利 |
| 215 | eventually lifted the two child benefit cap and it may be that some Labour leader comes in and | 最终解除了两个子女津贴上限,可能有些工党领袖进来, |
| 216 | changes it all, but I don't see who that person is because actually, every time there's been a | 但是我不知道那个人是谁 因为事实上 每次发生 |
| 217 | Labour leadership election, anyone who's even on the soft left, as you put it, doesn't even make it | 劳动领导选举,任何在柔软的左翼上的人, 像你所说的那样,甚至都做不到 |
| 218 | on the ballot paper. | 在选票上。 |
| 219 | What if they actually asked you to work with them? | 如果他们真的要你和他们合作呢? |
| 220 | You know, could the Greens | 你知道,可以绿党 |
| 221 | and the Labour Party work together under different leadership, obviously? | 和工党在不同的领导之下合作,很明显? |
| 222 | Would you be interested? | 你有兴趣吗? |
| 223 | I'm always keen to work with anyone who shares my values and wants to campaign on cross-party | 我总是热衷于和任何 认同我价值观的人合作 并想参加跨党派竞选 |
| 224 | issues. | 问题。 |
| 225 | I'm a pluralist at heart. | 我是一个多元的心脏。 |
| 226 | The party is that too, but we know there are lots of Labour MPs | 党也是 但我们知道有很多工党议员 |
| 227 | and there's only a couple of them I could imagine that would take the Labour Party | 我只能想象到 工党会败北 |
| 228 | in a direction where we could possibly work with them. | 朝着我们可以与他们合作的方向前进 |
| 229 | Did you see any parallels or similarities | 你有没有看到任何相似之处? |
| 230 | between your movement and Nigel Farage where he was some time ago in that, you know, he had this | 在你的行动和奈杰尔·法拉吉之间 他以前在那里 |
| 231 | radical idea to leave the European Union, which everybody said, well, that's bonkers, it's never | 离开欧盟的激进想法, 大家都说,那是愚蠢的,它永远不会 |
| 232 | going to happen. | 会发生的。 |
| 233 | You have some pretty far-out ideas there as well, you know, in terms of | 你有一些相当遥远的想法 在那里,你知道,从 |
| 234 | possibly leaving NATO. | 可能离开北约 |
| 235 | Do you think that with time the ideas that you're espousing that people say | 你是否认为,随着时间的流逝 你所支持的想法 人们说 |
| 236 | are crazy could become mainstream? | 疯狂会成为主流? |
| 237 | I would say what is crazy, if we're going to use that term, | 我会说什么是疯狂, 如果我们要使用这个词, |
| 238 | is continuing to view Donald Trump as an ally. | 继续视唐纳德·特朗普为盟友. |
| 239 | This is a man who has threatened to annex Greenland, | 他威胁要吞并格陵兰 |
| 240 | one of our supposed NATO allies, that would trigger Article 5, which means an attack on one | 我们所谓的北约盟国之一, 将触发第五条, 这意味着攻击一个 |
| 241 | is an attack on all. | 是对所有人的攻击。 |
| 242 | And actually what I've been saying is we should be having conversations and | 实际上,我一直在说 我们应该有谈话, |
| 243 | dialogue with our European neighbours to actually deal with the threat of Donald Trump in the same | 与欧洲邻国对话,以切实应对唐纳德·特朗普的威胁 |
| 244 | way that we're dealing with the threat of Vladimir Putin or Benjamin Netanyahu. | 我们正处理弗拉基米尔·普京或本雅明·内塔尼亚胡的威胁 |
| 245 | I think it's about | 我想这是关于 |
| 246 | recognising who the authoritarians are in our world, and I would consider Donald Trump one of | 我想唐纳德·特朗普是 |
| 247 | them. | 他们。 |
| 248 | To the wider point, I don't see a lot of parallels with Nigel Farage. | 更广义地讲,与奈杰尔·法拉吉的相似之处并不多见. |
| 249 | This is a man who | 这是一个男人 |
| 250 | claims to be a man of the people, but he's a man of the wealthy people. | 自称为人民之人,却为富民之人. |
| 251 | Sure, he managed to make | 当然,他设法做了 |
| 252 | Brexit happen from outside Parliament, and so I suppose there's a comparison to be made there in | Brexit发生在议会之外, 所以我想有一个比较 在那里, |
| 253 | terms of I think it's important to both be in Parliament, but also frankly I think there's a | 我觉得在议会上都很重要 但坦率地说,我认为有 |
| 254 | lot of differences. | 有很多不同之处 |
| 255 | But I don't really see Nigel Farage doing that. | 但我没有看到奈杰尔法拉吉这样做。 |
| 256 | I see him going on right-wing | 我看见他向右转 |
| 257 | news channels and grifting. | 新闻频道与诈骗. |
| 258 | Zach Polanski 非常感谢 | |
| 259 | Thanks so much for having me. | 谢谢你邀请我 |
| 260 | Well, I also spoke to the Environment Secretary Emma Reynolds, and I asked her whether the | 我也和环保部长艾玛·雷诺兹谈过了 我问她是否 |
| 261 | Manchester Mayor Andy Burnham would have won the seat if he'd have been allowed to stand for Labour. | 曼彻斯特市长安迪·伯纳姆(英语:Andy Burnham)如果被允许参加工党,本会赢得这个席位. |
| 262 | It's not clear to me that a different candidate would have got a different result. | 我并不清楚 另一位候选人会有什么不同的结果 |
| 263 | Unfortunately, | 很遗憾 |
| 264 | we came third last night, and I totally respect the decision that was taken by the National | 我完全尊重国民政府的决定 |
| 265 | Executive Committee that we didn't want to see the disruption of a mayoral by-election, | 我们不想看到市长补选被打断 |
| 266 | which is equivalent to 20 parliamentary by-elections, so I think they were right not | 相当于20次国会补选 所以我认为他们是对的 |
| 267 | to allow that to happen. | 允许发生这种情况。 |
| 268 | I've got enormous time for my colleague Andy Burnham. | 我为我的同事安迪·伯纳姆 准备了大量的时间 |
| 269 | He's a great Mayor | 他是个伟大的市长 |
| 270 | of Manchester, but we had a great candidate in Angeliki Stoia, somebody who's a local champion, | 曼彻斯特,但我们有一个伟大的候选人 在安杰利基斯托亚, 一个地方冠军, |
| 271 | but unfortunately we were unable to win last night. | 但不幸的是我们昨晚没能赢 |
| 272 | That is something obviously that's very | 这显然是非常 |
| 273 | disappointing to the Labour Party, and we will reflect on the results overnight. | 工党感到失望,我们将在一夜之间思考结果. |
| 274 | We need to make | 我们需要做 |
| 275 | sure that we do deliver the change that people voted for back at the general election to improve | 确保我们确实实现人民在大选中投票支持的变革,以改善 |
| 276 | their living standards and to improve public services. | 他们的生活水平和改善公共服务。 |
| 277 | And do you accept that you're not | 你是否承认你不是 |
| 278 | at the moment, and that's what people feel? | 现在,这就是人们的感觉? |
| 279 | Just next week, for example, the first rail fare freeze | 比如说,下星期,第一次铁路票房冻结 |
| 280 | in 30 years is coming in. | 30年即将来临 |
| 281 | In April, people will see more than £100 off their energy bills, | 4月,人们会看到100多英镑的能源账单, |
| 282 | but I accept that, you know, people want to see more change than we've already delivered. | 但我接受,你知道, 人们希望看到更多的变化 比我们已经交付。 |
| 283 | We've | 我们已经 |
| 284 | had six interest rate cuts, food inflation coming down, but people want to feel those changes. | 削减了6个利率, 粮食通货膨胀下降, 但人们想感受这些变化。 |
| 285 | The trouble is you know that a huge number of your colleagues are quietly furious, | 麻烦是你知道你很多同事 都非常生气 |
| 286 | and we're now in a sort of a, people talk about phony war, we're now in a phony peace | 我们现在处于一种, 人们谈论假战争, 我们现在在假和平 |
| 287 | where no one's going to move against Keir Starmer until after the May | 直到五月以后 没人会反对基尔·斯塔默 |
| 288 | local elections. | 地方选举。 |
| 289 | You know it's a very weird time in politics right now as the Labour Party tries | 当工党尝试时 政治界现在非常奇怪 |
| 290 | to sort out its future direction. | 确定未来的方向。 |
| 291 | Well what I saw yesterday at the by-election, and I was there | 我昨天在补选时看到的 我当时在场 |
| 292 | yesterday and last week and a couple of weeks before, was a huge collective effort from right | 昨天和上星期 和几个星期前, 是一个巨大的集体努力 从右边 |
| 293 | across the Labour Party. | 整个工党。 |
| 294 | Labour MPs across the whole political spectrum of our parliamentary | 议会各政治派别的劳工议员 |
| 295 | party, Labour councillors, Labour volunteers from all across the country. | 党,劳工委员,劳工志愿者来自全国各地. |
| 296 | But you know how divided | 但你知道如何分裂 |
| 297 | the party is, don't you? | 派对是,不是吗? |
| 298 | Well look, I think of course there are people in the Labour Party | 你看,我想当然有 人在工党 |
| 299 | who are complaining about the results overnight. | 他们连夜抱怨结果 |
| 300 | I understand that they're disappointed, I'm | 我知道他们很失望,我... |
| 301 | disappointed too, but I think what we saw two weeks ago is the entire cabinet and the vast majority | 失望了,但我想我们两周前看到的是整个内阁和绝大多数 |
| 302 | of the parliamentary Labour party, Labour MPs, uniting behind Keir Starmer, because what we saw | 议会工党 工党议员 团结在基尔·斯塔默后面 因为我们看到的 |
| 303 | in the last Conservative government is the British public take a very dim view of a party | 在上届保守党政府里 英国公众对党的看法很模糊 |
| 304 | that continues to change their leader every few months. | 这继续每几个月改变他们的领导人。 |
| 305 | That's what the Conservatives did, | 保守党就是这样做的, |
| 306 | and I don't think the British public liked it because it produces such economic instability, | 我不认为英国公众喜欢它 因为它造成了如此不稳定的经济, |
| 307 | and it's not good therefore for people's living standards. | 也不利于人们的生活水平 |
| 308 | People didn't unite behind Keir Starmer, | 人们没有团结在凯尔·斯塔默身后 |
| 309 | they just stepped away from having a leadership election at that point, because they couldn't | 他们刚刚放弃了领导选举,因为他们不能 |
| 310 | Angela Reyna没有资格竞选 | |
| 311 | yet because she's still got problems over her tax bill. | 因为她的税单还有些问题 |
| 312 | I mean that's what I mean by this sort of | 我的意思是,我是说,这种 |
| 313 | phony piece where your colleagues are not united behind Keir Starmer, they just can't work out what | 你的同事不团结在凯尔·斯塔默身后 他们就是想不出 |
| 314 | next. | 下一个 |
| 315 | Well I don't accept that because I was at that parliamentary Labour party meeting a couple | 我不接受 因为我当时在议会工党聚会上 |
| 316 | weeks ago of Labour MPs and there was real warmth and affection for Keir Starmer. | 几周前的工党议员们 对基尔·斯塔默非常热情和热爱 |
| 317 | He is a leader that | 他是领导者 |
| 318 | turned around our party fortunes in five short years. | 在短短的5年里 扭转了我们的党运 |
| 319 | I lost my seat in 2019, it was one of the | 我在2019年失去了我的席位,这是其中之一 |
| 320 | worst results for the Labour party under the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn for many many decades | Jeremy Corbyn领导下的工党几十年来最糟糕的结果 |
| 321 | and Keir Starmer has turned around our party in that time and secured a five-year mandate to | Keir Starmer在那段时间里 扭转了我们的党 并获得了五年的授权 |
| 322 | govern the country and a big majority. | 统治国家,占多数。 |
| 323 | So I don't accept that people aren't behind Keir and Labour | 所以我不接受人们不支持基尔和工党 |
| 324 | MPs aren't behind Keir. | 议员不在基尔后面 |
| 325 | The Labour MPs that I talk to want us to get on with the job. | 我说的工党议员想让我们继续工作 |
| 326 | Of course we | 当然了 |
| 327 | need to ensure that we are communicating what we're doing, perhaps more persuasively to the | 需要确保我们正在沟通 我们在做什么,也许更说服 |
| 328 | British public and we need to step up the things we're doing to improve people's living standards. | 英国公众和我们需要加强我们为提高人民生活水平所做的事情. |
| 329 | I think there's an acceptance of that. | 我认为有人接受了这一点。 |
| 330 | Emma Reynolds, thank you very much. | 艾玛·雷诺兹 谢谢你 |
| 331 | Well joining me | 来参加吧 |
| 332 | now is the new statements Megan Kenyon and the former number 10 advisor under the Blair and | 梅根·凯尼恩和布莱尔手下的前十号顾问 |
| 333 | 布朗政府 Theo Bertram. (美国). | |
| 334 | Megan there's a sort of a fake calm in Labour at the moment | 梅根,现在工党有种假的平静 |
| 335 | but there is a reckoning coming. | 惟有清算来临, |
| 336 | Yeah I think the fact that Labour lost in Gorton and Denton | 是的,我想工党在戈顿和丹顿输了 |
| 337 | in Greater Manchester, an area which is such a Labour stronghold of obviously Andy Burnham | 在大曼彻斯特 这个地区 劳工据点 显然安迪伯纳姆 |
| 338 | is the Mayor of Greater Manchester there, shows how historic this by-election really is and to | 显示这次补选的历史性意义 |
| 339 | come in third place to the Green Party who won a 4,000 vote majority shows you know no one was | 绿党获得4000票多数 排名第3 显示你知道没有人是 |
| 340 | really expecting that. | 真的很期待这个。 |
| 341 | We all I think everyone thought it would be tight but not quite the Greens | 我们都觉得大家都觉得会很紧 但不是绿党 |
| 342 | to go out as far as they did. | 像他们那样远走高飞 |
| 343 | The question of leadership will play out whenever it plays out | 领导权问题无论何时发生 |
| 344 | after the local elections but Starmer has nailed his colours very clearly calling the Greens | 当地选举之后, |
| 345 | extremists. | 极端主义分子。 |
| 346 | Isn't it quite hard to shift to the left to try and appeal to people who are going to | 转而往左转 试着吸引那些 |
| 347 | elections today. | 今天的选举。 |
| 348 | The idea that you can just get by by saying vote for us because we're not reform | 这个想法,你只要说 投票给我们,因为我们不是改革 |
| 349 | has been tested to destruction. | 已经测试了销毁。 |
| 350 | People want to vote for something and I think there are two things | 人们想投什么票 我认为有两件事 |
| 351 | that today confirm for the Parliamentary Labour Party. | 今天,这为议会工党证实了。 |
| 352 | One is that people don't listen to Keir | 一是人们不听基尔的话 |
| 353 | Starmer anymore and the second is that although people are confident in the Labour Party in the | 星际迷航 和第二个是 虽然人们对工党有信心 |
| 354 | long-term policy reform there isn't enough radicalism, there isn't enough sense of change | 长期的政策改革 没有足够的激进主义 没有足够的变革感 |
| 355 | in the near and medium term policy change. | 近期和中期政策变化。 |
| 356 | I mean having worked in the Centre is the Centre just | 我是说在中心工作过就是中心 |
| 357 | so weak now that they're incapable of coming up with the ideas? | 这么弱,现在他们不能 提出的想法? |
| 358 | I think Keir Starmer's Prime | 我想基尔·斯塔默的总理 |
| 359 | Minister with a big majority it's very difficult to remove Prime Ministers. | 以大多数的部长很难罢免总理. |
| 360 | I was there under Gordon | 我当时在戈登下面 |
| 361 | Brown took a long time people trying to get rid of him and they didn't manage it and it took a long | 布朗花了很长时间 人们试图摆脱他, 他们没有管理它,它花了很长时间 |
| 362 | time for Gordon Brown to take over from Tony Blair so I think Prime, Labour Prime Ministers are more | 是时候让戈登·布朗 接替托尼·布莱尔 所以我认为总理 劳工总理 |
| 363 | durable than people expect. | 比人们期望的持久。 |
| 364 | I think the sort of Game of Thrones drama that we're starting to | 我认为这种游戏的王座戏剧 我们开始 |
| 365 | experience in the Labour Party may go on all year. | 工党的经验可能全年都在发展。 |
| 366 | I mean I sort of mean in policy terms Beggan I | 我的意思是,我有点指 政策术语Beggan I |
| 367 | mean you know do they appear capable of a new agenda or is it just they're going to communicate | 意思是你知道他们看起来有新的计划 还是他们只是要沟通 |
| 368 | what they've been doing a bit better? | 他们做的更好吗? |
| 369 | I think yeah it's quite interesting when I was up in | 我想是的,这很有趣 当我在 |
| 370 | Gorton and Denton last weekend and I went out with some Labour canvases and they were saying to me | 葛顿和丹顿上周末 我和一些劳工画布出去了 他们对我说 |
| 371 | there are so many positive things that we've done the Renters Rights Act, the Employment Rights Bill | 我们做了很多积极的事情 《租户权利法案》 《就业权利法案》 |
| 372 | that we're just not talking about and it's not on our campaign literature. | 我们只是没有谈论 它不在我们的竞选文献。 |
| 373 | Instead all we're saying | 而不是我们所说的 |
| 374 | is oh don't vote for the Green Party because they will legalise all drugs and that didn't really | 哦,不要投绿党的票 因为他们会合法化 所有的药物,这不是真的 |
| 375 | seem to cut through with voters and it didn't really seem to be winning over the Labour activists | 似乎与选民切入 并且它似乎不是真的 胜过工党积极分子 |
| 376 | too. | 也一样。 |
| 377 | What do you think the threat is now in terms of the Greens? | 你觉得现在绿党的威胁是什么? |
| 378 | You know I mean do they represent | 你知道我的意思是 他们代表 |
| 379 | Labour? | 劳动? |
| 380 | What reform represented to the Tories? | 什么改革代表了托里斯? |
| 381 | I think it's perhaps too early to say that yet | 我觉得现在这么说还为时过早 |
| 382 | this is obviously a by-election but I think once the May elections come around we've obviously | 这显然是一场补选 但我认为一旦五月选举开始 |
| 383 | got elections in Scotland and Wales where the Greens are looking particularly in Wales and in | 在苏格兰和威尔士举行了选举 绿党在威尔士和威尔士特别引人注目 |
| 384 | the English local elections in London to make some quite big gains. | 伦敦的英国地方选举 取得了相当大的进展 |
| 385 | I think after today we could see | 我想今天之后我们可以看到 |
| 386 | Wales the potential of them even getting into government in the Senate alongside Plaid Cymru | 威尔士,他们的潜力 甚至进入参议院 与Plaid Cymru |
| 387 | 很明显Plaid Cymru去年赢得了 Caerphilly 的补选 所以肯定 | |
| 388 | momentum is picking up. | 气势正在上升。 |
| 389 | Theo what do you see as the sort of the structural shift that may happen? | 提奥,你认为什么样的结构转变 可能会发生? |
| 390 | I think behind closed doors what's happening among the would-be leadership contenders among | 我闭门想着 未来领袖竞争者之间发生了什么 |
| 391 | different groups in the Labour Party and indeed inside number 10 itself is a sort of soft manifesto | 工党内部的不同团体 乃至10号内部的团体 都是一种软宣言 |
| 392 | Keir Starmer是否被推翻, | |
| 393 | after the May elections and I think there is a sense that there needs to be greater boldness | 在5月选举之后,我认为有一种感觉,即需要更加大胆。 |
| 394 | in what the near-term policy is so you're seeing some of those that desire that appetite for a | 近期政策是什么,所以你看到一些人 渴望一个 |
| 395 | bit more radicalism and I think that would be a good thing from Labour. | 更激进的一点 我认为那是工党的好事 |
| 396 | But how can you balance | 但是,你怎样才能平衡 |
| 397 | the demands of both left and right if you've got to appeal to both those people with a new policy | 左右两方的要求,如果你必须呼吁 这两个人 新政策 |
| 398 | there are things and you triangulate it yeah I think you know parties have proved that you can | 有东西,你三角化的。 |
| 399 | do that in the past but I think I think you know take council tax council tax needs reform | 做在过去,但我想你知道 采取议会税收委员会 需要改革 |
| 400 | taking that on is not a left right issue it's a boldness issue social care it's an issue that | 接受这个不是左侧的右侧问题 它是一个大胆的问题 社会关怀是一个问题 |
| 401 | also needs solving these are big meaty problems and I think if people think that you are radical | 还需要解决这些大肉类问题 如果人们觉得你激进 |
| 402 | that you're serious that you have a purpose I think then that makes it easier to go out and | 你是认真的,你有 目的,我想,那么,那就更容易出去, |
| 403 | Andy Burnham is hinting at tonight is he going to have another go it's a by-election and sort of | Andy Burnham今晚在暗示 他还要再去一次 这是补选 |
| 404 | dare the Labour Party to deny him again I'm not sure but I think we haven't heard the last from | 工党敢再否认他 我不确定 但我想我们没有听到最后的消息 |
| 405 | him yet certainly what would your guests be on that I would be surprised if if Andy doesn't keep | 如果安迪不留下来 我一定会惊讶的 |
| 406 | trying for a seat and I suspect there'll be lots of Labour parties around the country that would | 我怀疑全国各地会有很多工党 |
| 407 | be keen to have him as their MP does it make sense that people seem to regard him as some | 热衷于让他做他们的议员 这有道理 人们似乎把他当成一些 |
| 408 | holy grail given that he lost the leadership twice I think it's a lot easier to be outside | 鉴于他两次失去领导力 我觉得在外面比较容易 |
| 409 | the cabinet and looking in from the outside if I can phrase it like that rather than being inside | 柜子,从外面看 如果我能这样说,而不是在里面 |
| 410 | the cabinet and trying to be loyal at the same time so I think I think in some ways I mean we | 我想在某些方面,我是说我们 |
| 411 | are seeing Manchesterism it has had a big boost but a lot of that has been from things that are | 曼彻斯特主义得到了很大的推动 但其中很多都是来自 |
| 412 | not entirely within Andy Burnham's control but I do think he does offer the ability to communicate | 并不完全在安迪·伯纳姆的控制之下 但我相信他确实提供了沟通的能力 |
| 413 | I think he offers an optimistic agenda I think that's something that voters and the PLP itself | 我觉得他给出了一个乐观的议程 我认为这是选民和进工党本身的问题 |
| 414 | are keen to see. | 热切希望看到。 |
| 415 | Theo Burch from Megan Kenyon thank you very much indeed. | 梅根・凯尼恩的西奥・伯奇 非常感谢你 |
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