阿里巴巴董事长蔡崇信谈投资体育和人工智能 | 2025.4.
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:06 | Here at CNBC's Converge Live in Singapore, I sat down with Joe Tsai, Alibaba's co-founder | 在新加坡的Converge现场 我和阿里巴巴的创始人Joe Tsai坐下 |
| 0:11 | and chairman, who joined me on stage to talk about his growing portfolio in sports and | 和主席,他和我一起上台 谈论他日益增长的组合 在体育和 |
| 0:18 | the latest advancements in AI. | 在大赦国际的最新进展。 |
| 0:26 | Great to be with you, Joe. | 很高兴和你在一起,乔。 |
| 0:27 | Thank you so much for being here. | 谢谢你能来 |
| 0:30 | Thanks, David. | 谢谢 大卫 |
| 0:31 | In front of the waterfall. | 於瀑布前. |
| 0:33 | We're here to converge. | 我们在这里聚集。 |
| 0:36 | And I wanted to start off sort of on that theme, kind of bring a lot of things together. | 我想从这个主题开始, 将很多事情结合起来。 |
| 0:41 | I'd love to start off actually on sports, certainly Alibaba, China, US, if we can a | 我想从体育开始, 当然是阿里巴巴,中国,美国,如果我们能 |
展开字幕全文（317 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Here at CNBC's Converge Live in Singapore, I sat down with Joe Tsai, Alibaba's co-founder | 在新加坡的Converge现场 我和阿里巴巴的创始人Joe Tsai坐下 |
| 2 | and chairman, who joined me on stage to talk about his growing portfolio in sports and | 和主席,他和我一起上台 谈论他日益增长的组合 在体育和 |
| 3 | the latest advancements in AI. | 在大赦国际的最新进展。 |
| 4 | Great to be with you, Joe. | 很高兴和你在一起,乔。 |
| 5 | Thank you so much for being here. | 谢谢你能来 |
| 6 | Thanks, David. | 谢谢 大卫 |
| 7 | In front of the waterfall. | 於瀑布前. |
| 8 | We're here to converge. | 我们在这里聚集。 |
| 9 | And I wanted to start off sort of on that theme, kind of bring a lot of things together. | 我想从这个主题开始, 将很多事情结合起来。 |
| 10 | I'd love to start off actually on sports, certainly Alibaba, China, US, if we can a | 我想从体育开始, 当然是阿里巴巴,中国,美国,如果我们能 |
| 11 | bit. | 位数。 |
| 12 | But you own a lot of sports teams in our neck of the woods in New York, where you spent | 但你在纽约的树林里 拥有很多运动队 |
| 13 | some time as well. | 还有一段时间 |
| 14 | Of course, the Brooklyn Nets, the New York Liberty, champions of the WNBA, a couple of | 当然,布鲁克林网队,纽约自由队, WNBA的冠军,几支 |
| 15 | lacrosse teams, I believe, as well. | 曲棍球队也一样 |
| 16 | When you think about these investments, I'm curious, you know, many who invest in sports | 当你想到这些投资,我很好奇,你知道, 很多谁投资体育 |
| 17 | certainly are aware of the asset values rising over time, seemingly inevitably in many of | 当然知道资产价值随时间推移而上升,似乎不可避免地在很多情况下 |
| 18 | these areas. | 这些区域。 |
| 19 | Is that the play, ultimately, to create value over time through the asset value and a potential | 最终通过资产价值和潜力创造价值 |
| 20 | sale at some point, or do you really look for a return season after season? | 某个时候的销售, 还是你真的找一个季后赛? |
| 21 | Every season you're trying to win the championship. | 每个赛季都试图夺得冠军. |
| 22 | The final payoff for me is less financial. | 我最后的回报是少花钱 |
| 23 | Even though the financial aspects are important, I have to make sure that sort of bottom line, | 虽然财政方面很重要 但我得确定这种底线 |
| 24 | the investment can make sense. | 投资是有意义的。 |
| 25 | But at the end of the day, it's through the love of sports. | 但最终通过对体育的热爱. |
| 26 | I have a passion for sports. | 我热衷于运动 |
| 27 | That's why I invested in these teams. | 这就是为什么我投资 这些球队。 |
| 28 | Now, I have a few principles when I do make these investments. | 现在,我有一些原则 当我做这些投资。 |
| 29 | Those are sort of, you know, financial, commercial principles. | 这些是金融和商业原则 |
| 30 | Number one, I want to invest in a league that is where the best players in the world play. | 第一,我想投资一个联赛 在那里是世界上最好的球员。 |
| 31 | So if you look at the NBA, the NFL, around the world, the best players play. | 因此,如果你看看NBA,NFL, 在世界各地,最好的球员打。 |
| 32 | It's different in soccer. | 足球比赛不一样 |
| 33 | The best players are playing in Europe. | 最佳球员在欧洲打球. |
| 34 | And I don't want to touch European soccer because they don't have a salary cap. | 我不想碰欧洲足球 因为他们没有工资上限 |
| 35 | And it's a very, very different system, right? | 这是一个非常,非常不同的系统,对不对? |
| 36 | And you're also competing with sovereigns when you get into that. | 当你进入这个阶段的时候 你也会和君主竞争 |
| 37 | And the second thing is you look at the media value. | 第二件事是你看媒体的价值。 |
| 38 | So you really need to pay attention to audience, either online, streaming. | 所以,你真的需要注意 观众,无论是在线,流。 |
| 39 | I think the world is moving towards streaming. | 我认为世界正在走向流水。 |
| 40 | But still, linear TV is still quite important. | 但线性电视仍然很重要。 |
| 41 | So the NBA just, you know, completed a massive deal, 11-year deal with a number of broadcasters. | 所以NBA刚刚,你知道, 完成了一个大规模的交易, 11年的交易 一些广播公司。 |
| 42 | Including my own, of course, NBA. | 包括我自己,当然,NBA。 |
| 43 | Of course. | 当然 |
| 44 | Welcome. | 欢迎 |
| 45 | Welcome back to the NBA. | 欢迎回到NBA |
| 46 | We paid quite a price for that as well, Joe. | 我们也为此付出了很大代价,乔 |
| 47 | It's worth it. | 值'. |
| 48 | Is it going to be worth it? | 值得吗? |
| 49 | Because, you know, ratings actually have not been as strong, and I think there is some | 因为,你知道, 收视率实际上没有那么强, 我认为有一些 |
| 50 | concern. | 关心。 |
| 51 | Are you concerned at all about it? | 你担心吗? |
| 52 | I'm not concerned about it. | 我不关心它。 |
| 53 | I think I just saw some stats. | 我想我刚刚看到一些数据。 |
| 54 | The latest Lakers-Celtics game, something like four and a half million viewers. | 最新的湖人-凯尔特人游戏,类似450万观众. |
| 55 | For a regular season game, that's really extraordinary. | 对于一个常规的赛季比赛来说,这真的很不寻常. |
| 56 | You were talking about, though, how you evaluate in terms of some of your rules. | 但是,你说的是,你如何评估你的一些规则。 |
| 57 | So media rights, obviously, is important. | 因此媒体权利显然很重要。 |
| 58 | I didn't want to interrupt you. | 我不想打断你 |
| 59 | What else? | 还有什么? |
| 60 | Well, I think the Americans have done it right in their sports leagues, where if you look | 我认为美国人在他们的体育联赛中做得对 如果你看 |
| 61 | at both the NFL and the NBA, there's a salary cap. | 在NFL和NBA都有工资上限. |
| 62 | And the cap is really less about depressing the cost of players. | 而盖帽实际上更没有压抑玩家成本. |
| 63 | It's more about coming to a balance, a fair balance between the owners and the players. | 更多的是达成平衡,所有者和玩家之间的公平平衡. |
| 64 | So, for example, in the NBA, the players share 50% of the revenue of the entire league. | 因此,例如NBA中,球员分享整个联赛50%的收入. |
| 65 | Now, that's on the top, revenue share, as opposed to profit share. | 现在,这是顶级,收入份额,而不是利润份额。 |
| 66 | So they are getting the majority of the profits. | 所以他们得到了大部分利润。 |
| 67 | As long as you set the rules, and the rules are very clear how you split the economics | 只要你制定了规则,规则 是非常清楚的,如何分割经济 |
| 68 | between the players and the team owners, then, you know, I think that's a very good framework | 在球员和球队主力之间, 然后,你知道,我认为这是一个非常好的框架 |
| 69 | to work with. | 与我们合作。 |
| 70 | The other thing about American sports leagues is it's kind of like a socialist system. | 美国体育联赛的另外一点,就是它有点像社会主义制度. |
| 71 | Doesn't matter whether you win or lose. | 你赢还是输都无所谓 |
| 72 | The sharing of economics is actually quite fair. | 分享经济学实际上相当公平。 |
| 73 | So, for example, TV revenues are shared evenly among 30 NBA teams equally. | 因此,例如,电视收入在30支NBA球队中平均分享. |
| 74 | You still see opportunity, though, in terms of buying sports franchises. | 在购买体育特许经营权方面,你仍然看到了机会。 |
| 75 | Now, I mean, you bought the Brooklyn Nets in what, 2016, 17, somewhere in there? | 现在,我的意思是,你买了布鲁克林网 在什么,2016,17, 某处在那里? |
| 76 | 17. | 17岁。 |
| 77 | And obviously, it's done quite well, I would assume, in terms of the overall asset value. | 很明显,它做得很好, 我想,从整体资产价值来看。 |
| 78 | But is the same opportunity there, or where are you, if you were to look? | 但是,这是同样的机会, 或者你在哪里,如果你看? |
| 79 | I mean, is it lacrosse? | 是曲棍球吗? |
| 80 | Is it emerging sports? | 是运动吗? |
| 81 | How do you view it at this point? | 此时如何看待. |
| 82 | I would continue to look at these first tier sports. | 我将继续看这些第一级运动。 |
| 83 | They seem to be very expensive. | 他们似乎非常昂贵。 |
| 84 | I think the latest NFL teams has traded for something like $7 to $8 billion of enterprise value. | 我认为最新的NFL球队 已经以7到80亿美元的企业价值交易。 |
| 85 | The NBA team, average NBA team, is like $4 plus billion enterprise value now. | NBA球队,普通NBA球队,现在就像4+10亿的企业价值. |
| 86 | They all look expensive. | 他们看起来都很贵。 |
| 87 | But then again, as long as you can grow the fan base, these are global audiences. | 但还是要说,只要你能够培养出粉丝基础, 这些就是全球观众。 |
| 88 | And so there's a lot of upside to go. | 故有大颠倒. |
| 89 | When I invested first in 2017, everybody thought I overpaid for it. | 当我在2017年投资第一的时候,大家都认为我为它付出了过高的代价. |
| 90 | But seven, eight years later, I didn't overpay. | 但七,八年后,我没有多付. |
| 91 | There's a very important reason for this. | 这件事有很重要的原因 |
| 92 | They call these teams franchises. | 他们称这些团队为特许赛. |
| 93 | And it's because it's not like anybody can just start a team. | 这是因为它不是像 任何人都可以 只是成立团队。 |
| 94 | Someone has to grant you the franchise to have a team. | 得有人授予你一个团队的特权 |
| 95 | So supply is, by definition, limited. | 因此,顾名思义,供应是有限的。 |
| 96 | The league controls how many teams are in the league. | 联赛控制联盟中有多少球队. |
| 97 | Any kind of expansion discussions will have to go through the league, and | 任何扩张讨论都必须经过联盟 |
| 98 | all the owners have to vote on it. | 所有人必须投票决定 |
| 99 | And it's a very economic decision. | 这是一个非常经济的决定。 |
| 100 | They have to look at the potential dilution of additional teams coming in, | 他们必须研究增加队伍进场的可能性 |
| 101 | sharing all the revenues, like TV revenues and whatnot, versus | 分享所有的收入,如电视收入和什么,与 |
| 102 | does an additional team help increase the fan base, | 是否有额外的团队帮助增加粉丝基础, |
| 103 | increase viewership, and all the rest of the economics that follow? | 增加收视率,其余的经济学呢? |
| 104 | You've mentioned, I think, in other interviews and the like, | 你提到过,我想, 在其他的采访中等等, |
| 105 | that you want control. | 想要控制自己 想要控制自己 |
| 106 | You obviously have control of the nets. | 你显然控制了网。 |
| 107 | You have control of the Liberty and on from there, and the arena. | 你控制着自由 从那里开始 还有竞技场 |
| 108 | But you spent, what, $200 million to buy a very small stake in the Miami Dolphins. | 但你花了2亿美元 买下迈阿密海豚的一小股股份 |
| 109 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 110 | Which gives you no control whatsoever. | 这让你无法控制一切 |
| 111 | Why do that? | 为什么? |
| 112 | My philosophy approaching the Dolphins is very different from basketball. | 我接近海豚的哲学 与篮球大不相同 |
| 113 | In the case of NFL, first, I'm a football fan. | 在NFL的情况下,首先,我是一个足球迷. |
| 114 | 我爱NFL。 | |
| 115 | I play high school football. | 我打高中橄榄球。 |
| 116 | And I saw the opportunity, and I told the team in my family office, | 我看到机会,我告诉团队在我的家庭办公室, |
| 117 | look at this thing as a pure financial investment. | 把这件事看成是纯粹的金融投资 |
| 118 | I told Steve, I'm not even gonna call myself an owner of the team. | 我告诉史蒂夫,我甚至不会自称是团队的主人。 |
| 119 | I'm a guest when I come to Miami. | 我是来迈阿密的客人 |
| 120 | I hope to sit with you in the owner's box. | 我希望和你们坐在主人的盒子里 |
| 121 | If you invite me to come, but I have an economic stake in 3% of the team. | 如果你邀请我来, 但我有经济利益 在3%的球队。 |
| 122 | The whole business is not just an NFL team, but it's also Hard Rock Stadium. | 整个业务不仅仅是NFL球队,它也是硬岩体育场. |
| 123 | And they have the franchise for F1 Miami, as well as the Miami Open Tennis Tournament. | 还有迈阿密网球公开赛 |
| 124 | So it's a collection of great assets under one roof that I invested in. | 因此,它是我投资的一个屋檐下的一个大资产库。 |
| 125 | You mentioned the venue in Miami. | 你提到迈阿密的会场 |
| 126 | You obviously control the Barclays Center in New York City as well, or own it. | 你显然也控制了纽约的巴克莱中心 或者拥有它 |
| 127 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 128 | How is that evolving the fan experience? | 粉丝的经验如何演变? |
| 129 | And how important is it as an owner of the franchises that play in the arena, | 作为在竞技场上演出的特许权的拥有者,它有多重要? |
| 130 | to actually have control of the arena so that you can evolve that experience? | 真正控制竞技场 这样你才能演化出那种经历? |
| 131 | I mean, is it early days sort of is what you can offer fans? | 我的意思是,这是早期 那种你可以提供粉丝? |
| 132 | Well, it's like in any business, if you're a McDonald's, it's a franchise. | 嗯,这就像在任何生意, 如果你是一个麦当劳, 这是一个特许经营。 |
| 133 | It's IP, but it's better if you own the real estate. | 这是IP,但如果你拥有房地产更好。 |
| 134 | Otherwise, every few years, the landlord has to negotiate rent with you. | 否则,每隔几年,房东就要跟你谈租房问题. |
| 135 | Or you have to negotiate rent with the landlord, you have to beg. | 或者你必须和房东协商租房,你必须乞讨. |
| 136 | In the case of sports, the team is the IP business, | 在体育方面,团队是IP业务, |
| 137 | and the real estate is a venue-based kind of business. | 地产是一种基于场地的生意 |
| 138 | So in our Barclays Center, we not only host basketball games, | 所以在我们巴克莱中心 我们不仅主办篮球比赛 |
| 139 | but most nights we have concerts. | 但大多数晚上我们有音乐会。 |
| 140 | We're generating revenue from renting out the space to artists. | 我们正在创造收入 从租出空间给艺术家。 |
| 141 | And that's a great business. | 这生意很棒 |
| 142 | Does it prove to be a better investment than the team? | 这是否证明比团队投资更好? |
| 143 | Oh, no, I don't think so. | 哦,不,我不这么认为。 |
| 144 | I think in the case of real estate, your upside is kind of limited. | 就房地产而言,你的反面是有限的。 |
| 145 | You know, you're collecting rent. | 你知道,你在收取租金。 |
| 146 | But teams, the IP value will continue to rise | 但团队,IP值会继续上升 |
| 147 | as long as you can continue to build a fan base. | 只要能继续建立球迷基地 |
| 148 | I want to move on to Alibaba. | 我想继续去阿里巴巴 |
| 149 | You've been back as chairman since I think it was late May of 23, right? | 23年五月下旬你才回来当会长吧? |
| 150 | So in a letter to shareholders about a year ago, your 24-letter, | 所以在一年前给股东的信中 你的24个字母 |
| 151 | you wrote that Alibaba had acquired large company characteristics, | 你写道阿里巴巴获得了大公司的特点 |
| 152 | and you would be going back to seeing yourself as a startup. | 你就会回到自己是个开始 |
| 153 | How important is that mindset? | 这种心态有多重要? |
| 154 | It's the reason why we exist. | 是我们存在的原因 |
| 155 | We have to exist as a fast-moving startup, | 我们必须作为一个快速移动的启动, |
| 156 | see ourselves as a small company, and nimble, and be humble. | 视自己为小公司,轻柔柔,谦卑. |
| 157 | Large companies move very slow, | 大公司动作很慢 |
| 158 | and it's because the decision-making structure is too complicated. | 因为决策结构太复杂了 |
| 159 | If you have to go through 19 layers of approval, it doesn't work. | 如果你必须经过19层批准,那就行不通了. |
| 160 | So we really needed to get back to nimbleness and act fast. | 所以我们真的需要回到灵活和迅速行动。 |
| 161 | And why is that? | 为什么? |
| 162 | It's because our competitors are all startups. | 因为我们的竞争对手都是初创企业. |
| 163 | We're competing in the e-commerce space, | 我们在电子商务领域竞争 |
| 164 | ByteDance, Douyin格式, 现场短视频格式, | |
| 165 | all the social type of commerce. | 所有社会类型的商业。 |
| 166 | They're all startup companies. | 他们都是创业公司。 |
| 167 | And how can you compete if your decision is very, very slow | 如果你的决定很慢,你怎么能竞争? |
| 168 | and it takes like 10 days to make a small decision against a startup? | 还要花十天的时间 才能做出一个小决定 对抗一个启动? |
| 169 | They'll make that decision in 10 minutes. | 十分钟后他们就会决定的 |
| 170 | How do you change that culture? | 你怎么改变这种文化? |
| 171 | And I should say just by point of history, | 我应该说,从历史的角度来看, |
| 172 | I mean, you and I got to know each other into the run-up of your IPO, | 我的意思是,你和我 在你的IPO的筹备阶段, |
| 173 | which was, what, 2015. | 这是,什么,2015。 |
| 174 | 我的意思是,现在我想到ByteDance和Pinduodo。 | |
| 175 | Even Tencent, we weren't talking about then. | 即使是Tencent,我们当时没在谈论。 |
| 176 | It was around, obviously. | 显然在附近 |
| 177 | The competition in your market intensified greatly. | 你们市场的竞争大为激烈 |
| 178 | So how do you get the large company? | 你怎么找大公司来? |
| 179 | And clearly, you were not keeping praise on that idea. | 显然,你并没有一直赞美这个想法。 |
| 180 | But how do you get that mindset amongst your employees back? | 但你的员工怎么恢复这种心态? |
| 181 | First of all, the e-commerce industry is the most competitive industry | 首先,电子商务行业是最具竞争力的行业 |
| 182 | in the world of any industry. | 在任何行业的世界。 |
| 183 | There's really basically no barriers to entry. | 基本上没有进入障碍。 |
| 184 | And that's because the infrastructure of e-commerce, | 因为电子商务的基础设施 |
| 185 | when it comes to logistics and payments, | 在物流和支付方面, |
| 186 | is already provided by a number of companies. | 一些公司已经提供。 |
| 187 | So as an upstart, you don't need to worry about logistics. | 所以,作为一个启动, 你不需要担心后勤。 |
| 188 | You don't need to worry about payment. | 你不必担心支付。 |
| 189 | You can just do your e-commerce. | 你可以做你的电子商务。 |
| 190 | And that's why it's so competitive. | 亦是故其相竞. |
| 191 | When I came in, I partnered with our new CEO, Eddie Wu. | 我进来后 和新总裁吴艾迪搭档 |
| 192 | The first thing that we said is we need | 我们说的第一件事是我们需要 |
| 193 | to streamline the company. | 以精简公司。 |
| 194 | Instead of talking about Alibaba as six different business units, | 而不是说阿里巴巴是六个不同的商业单位 |
| 195 | we talked about ourselves as having two core businesses, | 我们谈论我们自己 有两个核心业务, |
| 196 | e-commerce and cloud computing, that simplified everything. | 电子商务和云计算, 简化一切。 |
| 197 | And it's very important that we communicate that to our employees. | 这一点非常重要,我们必须向员工传达。 |
| 198 | And then the next thing is you empower people, | 接下来就是增强人们的能力 |
| 199 | especially younger people on the management team | 特别是管理团队中的年轻人 |
| 200 | that are actually on the front lines, | 实际上在前线, |
| 201 | dealing day-to-day with users and customers. | 与用户和客户进行日常交易。 |
| 202 | I think that empowerment is very important. | 我认为赋予权力非常重要。 |
| 203 | What does that mean? | 这是什么意思? |
| 204 | It means that actually letting them make some decisions | 意思是让他们做一些决定 |
| 205 | and letting them make mistakes and train them | 让他们犯错误,训练他们 |
| 206 | so that they can recover from mistakes. | 让他们从错误中恢复过来 |
| 207 | You have to give them some rope to hand themselves. | 你得给他们一些绳子来交手 |
| 208 | Another area, obviously, of growing competition potentially | 显然,另一个潜在的竞争领域 |
| 209 | is AI, and I'd love to talk to you about that. | 是AI 我想跟你谈谈 |
| 210 | It's connected to your cloud business in a variety of ways, | 它与你的云层业务有各种各样的联系 |
| 211 | and obviously, partially running the compute for your own and for others. | 显然,部分地运行 计算你自己和他人。 |
| 212 | You just released a new AI reasoning model. | 你刚刚发布了一个新的AI推理模型。 |
| 213 | And I wonder, how do you view your efforts there? | 我想知道,你如何看待你的努力? |
| 214 | Is it as a standalone product, | 它是一个独立的产品, |
| 215 | or is it really AI that's going to power your e-commerce business in some way? | 还是真的AI会以某种方式 推动你的电子商务业务? |
| 216 | We are developing AI for a number of reasons. | 我们正在发展AI,原因有很多。 |
| 217 | Number one, we run a cloud computing business, | 第一,我们经营云计算业务 |
| 218 | which will actually benefit from the proliferation of AI, | 它实际上将受益于大赦国际的扩散, |
| 219 | because every time someone trains a model or runs inference or do post-training, | 因为每当有人训练一个模型 或运行推论 或做后训练, |
| 220 | they need cloud computing infrastructure. | 他们需要云计算基础设施 |
| 221 | And we sell compute, and we're kind of agnostic. | 我们卖计算, 我们有点不可知论。 |
| 222 | Do they use our model or somebody else's model? | 他们用我们的模型还是别人的模型? |
| 223 | They need to have compute. | 他们需要计算。 |
| 224 | And the next thing is, if you look at all of our use cases, | 接下来的一件事是,如果你看 我们所有的使用案例, |
| 225 | all of our scenarios in e-commerce and mapping and food delivery and all that, | 我们在电子商务、测绘和食品运送方面的所有设想 |
| 226 | we can benefit a lot from the deployment of AI within our own business. | 我们可以从人工智能的部署中获益匪浅 |
| 227 | We have one part of our business where a significant part of the revenue is | 我们有一部分生意 其中很大一部分收入是 |
| 228 | advertising, so advertising is all about conversion rates. | 广告,所以广告都是关于换算率。 |
| 229 | That can be greatly enhanced by AI. | 大赦国际可以大大加强这一点。 |
| 230 | So we see a huge upside just within our own business. | 所以,我们看到一个巨大的颠峰 就在我们自己的企业。 |
| 231 | And then finally, you hear this when our CEO talks about it. | 最后,当我们的首席执行官谈论这个问题时,你听到这个。 |
| 232 | He's talking about kind of the ideal goal of AGI, artificial general intelligence. | 他指的是AGI的理想目标,人工一般智能. |
| 233 | I think today, if you want to call yourself a technology company or | 我想今天 如果你想自称科技公司 |
| 234 | a pioneer in technology, you can't not say that you are not pursuing AGI, right? | 一个技术的先驱,你不能不说 你没有追求AGI,对不对? |
| 235 | The pursuit of AGI is kind of that ultimate ideal. | AGI的追求就是那种最终的理想. |
| 236 | What does it really mean? | 这到底是什么意思? |
| 237 | Is it really actually meaningful to develop AGI and say, I have the best LLN, | 真正有意义的是开发AGI 并说,我有最好的LLN, |
| 238 | I have the best AI? | 我有最好的人工智能吗? |
| 239 | Let me stop you there, because you recently wrote in an editorial, | 让我打断你一下, 因为你最近在一篇社论中写道, |
| 240 | I think you said the AI race is no longer about who has the smartest children. | 我想你说过人工智能比赛 不再涉及谁有最聪明的孩子了 |
| 241 | So saying the value of making the smartest AI in the vacuum | 所以说做真空中最聪明的人工智能的价值 |
| 242 | will eventually approach zero. | 最终将接近零。 |
| 243 | So what does that mean? | 这是什么意思? |
| 244 | Well, first of all, I have to say a lot of people, | 首先 我得说很多人 |
| 245 | a lot of technologists will disagree. | 很多技术专家会不同意 |
| 246 | Yes. | 对 |
| 247 | That's why I mentioned it was interesting. | 这就是为什么我提到它很有趣。 |
| 248 | With me, including in your own company, I don't know. | 和我在一起,包括在你自己的公司,我不知道。 |
| 249 | Even within our company, we debate among scientists. | 即使在我们公司里,我们科学家们也在争论。 |
| 250 | And I have to say, I'm not a computer scientist, I'm not a technologist. | 我必须说,我不是计算机科学家,我不是技术专家。 |
| 251 | I mean, I have a law degree. | 我的意思是,我有法学学位。 |
| 252 | So it served you well. | 所以它对你很有用 |
| 253 | I'm not sure about that. | 我不确定这一点。 |
| 254 | If you think about AI as the training and the education of kids, | 如果你把AI当作是孩子的培训和教育 |
| 255 | what is the meaning, what is the value of educating your child so that they can be | 教育你的孩子 让他们成为 |
| 256 | the Nobel Prize winner in every subject matter there is in the world? | 世界每个主题的诺贝尔奖得主? |
| 257 | What is the value of having kids that have read every single book in the library? | 有孩子读过图书馆的每一本书有什么价值? |
| 258 | And they're very, very book smart. | 他们非常非常聪明。 |
| 259 | But as a parent, I still have to teach my kids EQ. | 但作为父母,我还是得教孩子们 EQ. |
| 260 | I still have to teach my kids how to make friends, how to deal with other people, | 我还得教孩子们如何交朋友 如何对付别人 |
| 261 | how to manage society and friendships and relationships. | 如何管理社会和友谊与关系。 |
| 262 | That's not pure knowledge acquisition, right? | 这不是纯粹的知识获取,对不对? |
| 263 | So same thing with developing AI. | 开发AI也是一样 |
| 264 | To have something that behaves and acts like a human being and | 拥有一些行为和行为 像一个人, |
| 265 | makes decisions like human being, you have to develop a lot of other capabilities. | 做决定像人, 你必须发展许多其他能力。 |
| 266 | And also the other thing is I found most of the people, 99% of the people that talk | 还有一件事,我发现大部分的人,99%的人说话 |
| 267 | about AI and the pursuit of AGI are men. | 关于AI和AGI的追逐是男人。 |
| 268 | Well, we know that with men and women, we have different ways of approaching things, | 我们知道,男人和女人, 我们有不同的方式处理事情, |
| 269 | different ways of thinking about things. | 不同的思维方式。 |
| 270 | What does it mean to have the smartest computer or smartest AI? | 拥有最聪明的计算机或最聪明的AI是什么意思?. |
| 271 | Is it a male or female from which perspective? | 是男还是女? |
| 272 | So you have to think about all of these issues. | 所以,你必须思考 所有这些问题。 |
| 273 | And the other thing, what I wrote in my op-ed is the benefits of open source. | 另一件事,我在博客上写的 是开放源代码的好处。 |
| 274 | I think the so-called deep seek moment is really not about | 我认为所谓的深度探索时刻 其实不是 |
| 275 | whether China has better AI than the US or vice versa. | 中国的AI比美国好,反之亦然。 |
| 276 | It's really about the power of open source because once you open source the model, | 这其实是关于开源的力量 因为一旦你打开源的模型 |
| 277 | people can take the model and deploy it on their own infrastructure. | 人们可以把模型放在自己的基础设施上。 |
| 278 | What's happened with open source is it's going to foster a lot more | 开放源代码的发生 将会促进更多 |
| 279 | development on top of these models. | 开发这些模型。 |
| 280 | So now you have small companies and big companies and corporates and | 所以现在你们有小公司,大公司和公司 |
| 281 | individuals and entrepreneurs developing on top of these open source. | 个人和企业家在这些公开源码之上发展。 |
| 282 | So the AI game is not just left to the five richest companies in the world | 所以,AI游戏不只是留给 世界上五个最富有的公司 |
| 283 | that can afford to invest like $50 billion a year, right? | 一年可以投资500亿美元,对吧? |
| 284 | So now that the proliferation of applications will be a result of open source. | 所以现在应用程序的激增将会是开源的结果. |
| 285 | You mentioned philosophical debates within the company. | 你提到公司内部的哲学辩论 |
| 286 | Do you talk at all about what you see as the ultimate impact though of AI? | 你是否谈过你认为AI的最终影响? |
| 287 | We're all still in the early days here trying to figure it out. | 早年我们还在这里努力想清楚. |
| 288 | What it will mean for what the nature of work is? | 这对工作的性质意味着什么? |
| 289 | What will be valued? | 将重视什么? |
| 290 | What it may mean ultimately for how many people even can have a job? | 这到底意味着多少人能有工作? |
| 291 | Do you have any concerns? | 你有什么顾虑吗? |
| 292 | I don't have any concerns because it can actually enhance what human beings do. | 我没有任何顾虑,因为它实际上可以增强人类的工作。 |
| 293 | For example, equity research analysts can be completely replaced by AI. | 例如,股权研究分析师可以被AI完全取代. |
| 294 | You can ask them to put together a report on Nvidia or Apple and | 你可以请他们整理一份关于Nvidia或苹果公司的报告 |
| 295 | it'll do a great job. | 这会做一个伟大的工作。 |
| 296 | But here's the thing. | 但问题是 |
| 297 | I think the quality of research can really be improved if a lot of the mundane | 我认为研究的质量 可以真正提高 如果很多的普通 |
| 298 | research related stuff can be done by the machine. | 研究相关内容可以由机器完成. |
| 299 | And then humans can apply their judgment and make better recommendations. | 然后人类可以运用自己的判断,提出更好的建议. |
| 300 | I don't think it'll entirely replace human beings. | 我认为它不会完全取代人类. |
| 301 | It'll just actually enhance the quality of work. | 这实际上会提高工作质量。 |
| 302 | Same thing, I'm trained as a lawyer. | 同样,我受过律师培训 |
| 303 | In fact, the work of a lawyer is very similar to coding. | 事实上,律师的工作与编码非常相似. |
| 304 | When you write a contract, you're actually writing code. | 写合同时,其实是写代码. |
| 305 | And the whole agreement, the whole document has to fit well together. | 而整个协议,整个文件必须很好地配合. |
| 306 | Every sentence, every definition have to fit with each other. | 每个句子,每个定义都必须相互适应. |
| 307 | Well, AI can do a lot of that. | 好吧,AI可以做很多这样的。 |
| 308 | I would say most of it. | 我会说大部分。 |
| 309 | So does that mean in the future lawyers will be replaced by AI? | 那么这是否意味着未来律师将被AI取代? |
| 310 | Not necessarily, because what do you go to the most sophisticated lawyers for? | 不一定,因为你找最尖端的律师干什么? |
| 311 | You ask for counsel. | 你问律师。 |
| 312 | Counsel is not something that is technical or black and white. | 律师不是技术或黑白的东西。 |
| 313 | It is judgment. | 这是判断。 |
| 314 | It is about understanding the circumstances. | 这是关于了解情况。 |
| 315 | And I still think that these jobs can just be enhanced by AI rather than being replaced. | 我仍然认为这些工作可以通过AI来强化,而不是被取代. |
| 316 | That's a hopeful view. | 这是一个充满希望的观点。 |
| 317 | Tingo. | 丁果(原变种). |
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