牛津辩论社系列（第1集）难相处的女性 difficult w
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:17 | Thank you so much all for coming. | 非常感谢你们能来 |
| 0:18 | Welcome. | 欢迎 |
| 0:18 | Hello everyone. | 產 |
| 0:21 | Real people. | 真实者. |
| 0:22 | So exciting. | 太激动人心了 |
| 0:24 | Inside. | 进去 |
| 0:27 | It's so great to be back in the chamber. | 复入室甚为赞叹. |
| 0:28 | Yeah, with all of you today. | 是啊,今天和你们大家在一起。 |
| 0:30 | I'll start with a | 我从一个开始 |
| 0:32 | sort of basic question. | 有点基本的问题 |
展开字幕全文（1140 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Thank you so much all for coming. | 非常感谢你们能来 |
| 2 | Welcome. | 欢迎 |
| 3 | Hello everyone. | 產 |
| 4 | Real people. | 真实者. |
| 5 | So exciting. | 太激动人心了 |
| 6 | Inside. | 进去 |
| 7 | It's so great to be back in the chamber. | 复入室甚为赞叹. |
| 8 | Yeah, with all of you today. | 是啊,今天和你们大家在一起。 |
| 9 | I'll start with a | 我从一个开始 |
| 10 | sort of basic question. | 有点基本的问题 |
| 11 | Who gets called a difficult woman? | 谁被称作一个困难的女人? |
| 12 | Me. | 来 |
| 13 | I mean, I've interviewed | 我的意思是,我已经面试了 |
| 14 | Gina before. | 吉娜之前,你认识她吗? |
| 15 | So, but you, I mean, the stuff that you got called for pointing out that the UK, | 所以,但你,我的意思是, 你被要求 指出英国, |
| 16 | sorry, we're getting into things quite quickly already. | 对不起,我们已经很迅速了 |
| 17 | The UK couldn't unilaterally make those | 英国不能单方面制造这些 |
| 18 | EU citizens, not EU citizens, you know, your legal argument. | 欧盟公民,而不是欧盟公民, 你知道,你的法律论点。 |
| 19 | Well, tell us some of the worst things | 好吧,告诉我们一些最坏的事情 |
| 20 | you were called. | 你被叫来。 |
| 21 | I was going to say, being called a difficult woman is actually, yeah, it's actually | 我本来想说,被叫作困难的女人 其实,是的,其实 |
| 22 | about minimalist in the abuse I get. | 我得到的虐待最小化主义者。 |
| 23 | And whenever I'm asked this question about, because it's | 每当我被问到这个问题,因为它 |
| 24 | bloody difficult woman, that's the, you know, we've, that's always the one that comes first. | 难得的女人,这就是,你知道,我们, 总是第一个。 |
| 25 | And I think the opposite, who wants to be a bloody easy woman? | 我认为恰恰相反, 谁想做一个他妈的容易的女人? |
| 26 | I mean, | 我是说... |
| 27 | think about it. | 考虑一下 |
| 28 | That has a completely different connotation. | 这有完全不同的含义。 |
| 29 | So I think I'll stick with that one. | 所以我想我会坚持这个。 |
| 30 | But it's, it's, it's really interesting, because I think it's the appropriation of language to try | 但这是,这是,这是,它真的很有趣, 因为我认为这是 使用语言尝试 |
| 31 | and censor women. | 并检查妇女。 |
| 32 | That's what is really going on in all of this. | 这一切都是真实的。 |
| 33 | And censorship, in a way. | 和审查,在某种程度上。 |
| 34 | And | 还有 |
| 35 | you've just, as far as I'm concerned, if I in any of my campaigning for 30 years, if anybody starts | 你只是,就我而言, 如果我在我的任何竞选 30年,如果有人开始 |
| 36 | abusing me or calling me names, and I sort of know I've already won the argument, because if they | 欺负我或叫我名字 我知道我已经赢得了这场争吵 因为如果他们 |
| 37 | really disagreed with the content of what I was saying, and could intellectually respond, | 真正不同意我所说的内容, 并且可以智力上的反应, |
| 38 | that would be where they'd go. | 他们就会去那里 |
| 39 | But if they already start name calling, then I sort of think to myself, | 但如果他们已经开始叫名字了 我就会想 |
| 40 | right, I'm already winning the argument. | 好吧,我已经赢得了争论。 |
| 41 | So I'm just going to stick to the argument. | 所以我要坚持争论 |
| 42 | And it | 还有 |
| 43 | glosses over me completely. | 完全赞美我 |
| 44 | But it is about censorship. | 但这是关于审查。 |
| 45 | I mean, I don't know if any of you | 我是说,我不知道你们有没有人 |
| 46 | here know, there was a 1969, I think, Joe Freeman, the American activist, did, she wrote something | 有个1969年的美国活动家 乔·弗里曼写过 |
| 47 | called the bitch manifesto, in which she said, we'll never make change, unless we embrace the | 说我们永远不会改变 除非我们拥抱 |
| 48 | bitch in us. | 母狗在我们。 |
| 49 | And societal change is about making people unhappy. | 而社会变革就是让人们不开心。 |
| 50 | And that's sort of where it comes | 就是这样 |
| 51 | from, I think. | 从,我想。 |
| 52 | But it's a shame that, you know, that was 1969, that up to now, women are still | 但可惜的是,你知道,那是1969年, 直到现在,妇女仍然 |
| 53 | being given those labels, if they are seen to step out of place, isn't it? | 被授予这些标签, 如果他们被看做 走出位置,不是吗? |
| 54 | So by know your place, | 所以,通过知道你的位置, |
| 55 | putting you back, censoring you. | 把你放回去 检查你 |
| 56 | And I'm sure we'll get on social media and all the rest of it. | 我敢肯定,我们会得到社交媒体 和所有的其余。 |
| 57 | But | 不过 |
| 58 | yeah, it's, it's about censorship. | 是啊,这是,这是关于审查。 |
| 59 | I think there are two interpretations. | 我认为有两种解释。 |
| 60 | One is, is the one you're | 一个是,你是一个 |
| 61 | about keeping women in their place, which the current usage has come about. | 女性在她们的位置, 而现在的习惯。 |
| 62 | I mean, the current | 我的意思是,现在 |
| 63 | popularity for the phrase difficult woman is because the former conservative chancellor, | 难女人这个词的流行 是因为前保守党的议长 |
| 64 | Tory politician called Ken Clark, now Lord Clark or some other said of Theresa May and was recorded | 托里政治家叫肯·克拉克,现在的克拉克勋爵或其他人 说特蕾莎·梅,被记录下来 |
| 65 | as saying she's a bloody difficult woman, you know, he didn't think the mic was on. | 说她是个困难的女人 他没想到麦克风会打开 |
| 66 | Yeah, | 对 |
| 67 | remember? | 记得吗? |
| 68 | It was just like, it was just like John Major being recorded talking about the | 这就像,它就像约翰少校 正在录音谈论 |
| 69 | bastards in his cabinet, you know, who were the pro Europeans. | 他的内阁里的混蛋, 你知道,谁是亲欧洲的。 |
| 70 | And he said she's a bloody | 他说她是个混蛋 |
| 71 | difficult woman. | 困难的女人。 |
| 72 | Now, I've known I've worked at the House of Commons for something like nearly | 现在,我知道 我在下议院工作过 类似的东西 |
| 73 | half a century. | 半个世纪。 |
| 74 | I know Ken Clark extremely well. | 我对肯·克拉克非常了解 |
| 75 | And I can just hear him say the phrase. | 我能听到他这么说 |
| 76 | And also | 还有 |
| 77 | I can hear half the House of Commons saying she's a bloody difficult woman about any woman who takes | 我听到一半的下议院 说她是一个血腥困难的女人 对于任何女人谁拿 |
| 78 | the trouble to stand up for themselves. | 为自己辩护的麻烦 |
| 79 | And that brings me to the other point, which I think is | 这让我想到另一个问题 我认为 |
| 80 | Rachel's coming from, and we'll hear from from her in a minute, I'm sure on this theme. | 瑞秋要来了,我们马上会从她那里得到消息, 我确信这个主题。 |
| 81 | And | 还有 |
| 82 | Rachel's new podcast about difficult women is about women who are prepared to say no, why should I? | Rachel的新播客 是关于困难女人的 是那些准备拒绝的女人 我为什么要这么做? |
| 83 | I'm not going to. | 我不会去。 |
| 84 | And who have got somewhere in consequence, like Gina has, and I've got somewhere | 和谁得到了某处的结果, 像吉娜有, 我得到了某处 |
| 85 | I suppose in terms of a career, that's all. | 我想从职业角度来说 就是这样 |
| 86 | I mean, I was the first woman political editor of a | 我的意思是,我是第一个女性政治编辑 |
| 87 | newspaper. | 报纸。 |
| 88 | I was the first woman to chair the parliamentary lobby. | 我是第一位担任议会大厅主席的女性。 |
| 89 | I've done a few other things | 我做了一些别的事 |
| 90 | like that. | 像这样 |
| 91 | But I didn't sort of set out to be difficult. | 但我没有开始困难。 |
| 92 | When I'm coming here this evening, | 我今晚来的时候 |
| 93 | various people said, what are you doing? | 人们说,你在做什么? |
| 94 | Basically, you know, my word. | 基本上,你知道,我保证。 |
| 95 | And I said, | 我说, |
| 96 | that's a conversation. | 这是谈话。 |
| 97 | And they said, what on? | 他们说,怎么了? |
| 98 | And I said, difficult woman. | 我说了 困难的女人 |
| 99 | And all the people I said | 和所有的人 我说 |
| 100 | to said, but you're not a difficult woman. | 说起来,但你不是一个困难的女人。 |
| 101 | And as you can see, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, | 正如你们所见 女士们先生们 男孩和女孩 |
| 102 | we're not allowed to call you ladies and gentlemen anymore because you get you get anyway. | 我们不能再叫你们女士们先生们了 因为总之你们会得到的 |
| 103 | Whoops, | 哎哟 |
| 104 | careful. | 小心点 |
| 105 | It's transphobic. | 转法轮. |
| 106 | As you can see, I'm the soul of reasonability. | 如你所见 我是理性的灵魂 |
| 107 | I think that I think | 我觉得 |
| 108 | actually Julia makes a really good point. | 朱莉娅说得很对 |
| 109 | I mean, when my father gave the speech at my wedding, | 我的意思是,当我父亲在我的婚礼上演讲, |
| 110 | so far, I've only been married once in my one and only wedding. | 到目前为止,我只结婚一次 在我唯一的婚礼。 |
| 111 | And he gave it to me afterwards. | 之后他给我的 |
| 112 | And | 还有 |
| 113 | I found it in a box the other day. | 我那天在一个盒子里找到的 |
| 114 | And in the speech, he said, my family call me rake. | 在演讲中,他说,我的家人 叫我雷克。 |
| 115 | And | 还有 |
| 116 | actually, I published a memoir last year on the 19th of March. | 事实上,去年3月19日,我发表了一份回忆录。 |
| 117 | And we went into lockdown on the | 我们进入了封锁 |
| 118 | 23rd of March. | 农历三月二十三日. |
| 119 | So nobody bought a single copy. | 所以没人买过一本 |
| 120 | And then it came out in paperback on the 19th of | 之后在19日以纸背形式出现 |
| 121 | 十月 October. | |
| 122 | We went into another lockdown on the 24th. | 24号又被封锁了 |
| 123 | So nobody bought even the paperback either. | 所以连回纸也没人买 |
| 124 | But anyway, it was called rakes progress because my family nickname is rake. | 但无论如何,它被称为rakes进步 因为我的家庭绰号是Rake。 |
| 125 | Okay, because my name | 好吧,因为我的名字 |
| 126 | is Rachel. | 这是瑞秋。 |
| 127 | And anyway, I found this wedding speech and it said, rake has always been a piece | 总之,我找到这个婚礼演讲 上面说,雷克一直是一块 |
| 128 | of cake. | 小事一桩 |
| 129 | I I've never been difficult in the family. | 我从未在家庭中遇到过困难. |
| 130 | And I think that was, was that a compliment? | 我觉得那是在赞美我吗? |
| 131 | Or | 或者说 |
| 132 | did it just suggest that as a female child, I had been brought up to be compliant? | 难道它只是暗示,作为一个女性孩子, 我长大了 遵守? |
| 133 | It might have | 可能已经 |
| 134 | suggested there are more difficult people in your family. | 暗示你家里有更难相处的人 |
| 135 | No, but I mean, I think that we were all | 没有,但我的意思是,我认为我们都 |
| 136 | not to make a fuss, not to make trouble. | 不要大惊小怪 不要惹麻烦 |
| 137 | And therefore, when I got when it got to adult life, | 因此,当我进入成年生活时, |
| 138 | I felt yippee, you know, you know, every single day of my adult life, I have regarded as a bonus, | 我感到, yippee, 你知道,你知道, 我成年后的每一天,我都认为是奖金, |
| 139 | because we have autonomy, however circumscribed our lives are as women. | 因为我们有自主权 不管我们的生活受到什么限制 都像女人一样 |
| 140 | And I actually think that | 我其实认为 |
| 141 | women in this country are very lucky. | 这个国家的女人非常幸运。 |
| 142 | On International Women's Day, I always think of the | 在国际妇女节,我总是想到 |
| 143 | women in Saudi Arabia, who aren't allowed to drive or have to have their brother's permission to leave | 沙特阿拉伯的妇女,她们不被允许开车或必须获得兄弟的允许才能离开 |
| 144 | the country. | 国家。 |
| 145 | I think of the women in El Salvador who are put in prison if they have a miscarriage, | 我想到萨尔瓦多那些如果流产被关进监狱的妇女, |
| 146 | I think of you know, all the things that we know still go on. | 我想你知道,我们知道的一切 仍然在继续。 |
| 147 | And I also think of women in America, | 我也想到美国的女人 |
| 148 | you know, Roe v. Wade is coming under attack tonight from the Supreme Court. | 你知道,Roe诉Wade案 今晚受到来自最高法院的攻击 |
| 149 | This week, | 这周, |
| 150 | we've seen the conservative majority in the Supreme Court, maybe take away that fundamental | 我们见过最高法院的保守派多数 可能夺走了那个根本的 |
| 151 | right of a woman's right to choose up to a certain point in her pregnancy, I think it's 15 weeks. | 女人有权选择 怀孕到某个时候, 我认为是15周。 |
| 152 | These fundamental freedoms, we can never take for granted. | 这些基本自由,我们绝不能认为是理所当然的。 |
| 153 | But for centuries, there have been difficult women who've created a societal change, | 但几个世纪以来 一直有困难的女人 创造了社会变革 |
| 154 | you know, the ability to vote, to get divorced, to study, to work, you know, it has been sent, | 你知道,投票能力,离婚能力, 学习能力,工作能力,你知道,它已经发送, |
| 155 | you know, centuries of difficult women who have created that change. | 你知道,几个世纪的艰难妇女 谁创造了这个变化。 |
| 156 | But no, no, it's not the | 但是,不,不,这不是 |
| 157 | only women, but but I think one of it's getting me on the label. | 但我认为其中之一 让我在标签上。 |
| 158 | I think we do need to get beyond | 我想我们确实需要超越 |
| 159 | the label. | 标签。 |
| 160 | Because if you get obsessed with being called that, you know, I haven't got a problem. | 因为如果你迷恋 被叫,你知道, 我没有问题。 |
| 161 | I have to say I haven't got a problem with equality with men being called difficult. | 我不得不说,我还没有问题 与平等 被称为困难。 |
| 162 | But | 不过 |
| 163 | it's not very often that you hear that it's a bit like the newspapers when they have, | 并不是经常听到的,它有点像报纸 当他们有, |
| 164 | you know, a celebrity or a role going out, you'll have every item of clothing for the female | 你知道,一个名人或角色出去, 你会得到所有的衣服 给女性 |
| 165 | person with a tag of no, no, it will be how much they cost, what label it is. | 标签是没有,不, 这将是他们花费多少, 是什么标签。 |
| 166 | Have you ever seen a | 你见过一个 |
| 167 | man where they put that, you know, the label of what they're wearing and how much it's cost, | 他们把那些东西放在哪里,你知道, 他们穿什么的标签 和它的成本, |
| 168 | it's not about how many children, how many times a divorce, you know, it's about equality. | 这不是关于多少孩子, 离婚多少次, 你知道,这是关于平等。 |
| 169 | I haven't | 我没有 |
| 170 | problems they won't do it, but it just should be equal. | 问题他们不会这样做, 但这只是应该平等。 |
| 171 | But the fact is, it's what is the | 但事实是,这是什么 |
| 172 | purpose of these labels? | 这些标签的目的? |
| 173 | And I think that's where we need to get to. | 我想这就是我们需要去的地方。 |
| 174 | It's a limitation. | 谓有限制. |
| 175 | It's | 这是 |
| 176 | putting you in your lane. | 让你进入你的车道。 |
| 177 | But in a world where women, we are increasing, we're seeing an increase | 但是在一个女人不断增长的世界里 我们目睹了不断增长 |
| 178 | in that misogyny and that abuse and that labeling, negative labeling of women in public life. | 在这种厌恶女性和虐待 和贴标签,负面标签 妇女参与公共生活。 |
| 179 | I mean, | 我是说... |
| 180 | last election 2019, 19 MPs did not stand again because of the abuse they get and the names they | 2019年大选,19名议员因受到虐待,姓名不详,没有再次参选. |
| 181 | get called. | 被调用。 |
| 182 | And then you bring in social media and all that language of the difficult women bit is | 然后,你带来了社交媒体 和所有的语言 困难的女性是 |
| 183 | only the start of it. | 才刚开始 |
| 184 | Can I just add a factual point, then more women MPs were elected to | 我能否补充一点事实,然后更多的女议员当选 |
| 185 | replace them. | 替换它们。 |
| 186 | So it didn't cause a sort of dissipation out from parliament. | 所以这并没有引起议会的某种消散. |
| 187 | There are now | 现在有了 |
| 188 | more women MPs than there ever were. | 女议员比以前多。 |
| 189 | But it's because of their experience. | 但这是因为他们的经验。 |
| 190 | And now you're | 现在你是 |
| 191 | last, we've actually had three new MPs, female MPs who've now stepped down, who've decided that | 最后,我们实际上有三个新议员, 女议员现在已经下台, 谁决定 |
| 192 | they can't put up with it is when they enter that arena. | 他们不能忍受,当他们进入竞技场。 |
| 193 | And I think it's, you know, I've seen it | 我认为这是,你知道, 我见过它 |
| 194 | even before the sort of small P political stage or platform, having worked in the city since 96, | 甚至在小P政治舞台或纲领之前 从96年开始在城市工作 |
| 195 | you know, that the misogyny and the name calling, you know, I've been called much worse than difficult | 你知道,厌恶女人和名字 打电话,你知道, 我被叫得比困难得多 |
| 196 | woman in that arena, because I've challenged the way the city works. | 女人在竞技场, 因为我挑战 城市的工作方式。 |
| 197 | And a lot of the things that | 还有很多事情 |
| 198 | I think are wrong and led to the financial crisis, but it's in any walk of life, | 我认为是错的,导致金融危机, 但它在任何生命的步调, |
| 199 | it's that labeling. | 这是标签。 |
| 200 | And I think it's us sort of not getting hung up on it and moving on because | 我认为我们没有被挂在上 继续前行 |
| 201 | for me, it is about accepting that you are going to be if you put yourself out there, | 对我来说,这是关于接受 如果你把自己放在那里,你会是, |
| 202 | and you're going to be a changemaker, you're going to get me in called names. | 你会成为一个变革者, 你会得到我的姓名。 |
| 203 | So what, | 那又怎样? |
| 204 | just move on. | 继续前进 |
| 205 | It's not, you know, if you, you know, if I get called difficult, aggressive, | 这不是,你知道,如果你,你知道, 如果我被称作困难,攻击性, |
| 206 | and I'll go and. | 我会去和。 |
| 207 | But let's be positive. | 但当正觉. |
| 208 | I think I think we are getting getting past that. | 我觉得我们快过了 |
| 209 | I mean, | 我是说... |
| 210 | we are getting to a position now where women are accepted for for having achieved for having | 我们现在正获得一个职位,即妇女因在获得教育方面的成就而被接受。 |
| 211 | secured their position and are not necessarily branded. | 也不一定被贴上标签。 |
| 212 | I wouldn't say on social media. | 我不会在社交媒体上说。 |
| 213 | I mean, | 我是说... |
| 214 | the statistics on social media are absolutely horrendous. | 社会媒体上的统计数据是绝对可怕的。 |
| 215 | I'm not talking about social media. | 我不是在谈论社交媒体。 |
| 216 | I just meant for achievement. | 我只是想达到目的 |
| 217 | It is not it is not remarkable to have, you know, | 拥有并不特别 |
| 218 | improving the number of women on board, for example, in the city. | 例如,城市中妇女人数的增加。 |
| 219 | I think the point you | 我认为你的观点 |
| 220 | make about women in politics and the abuse they get is just terrible. | 谈政治中的妇女 和她们受到的虐待只是可怕的。 |
| 221 | I mean, I don't mean your | 我是说,我不是说你 |
| 222 | point is terrible. | 这一点是可怕的。 |
| 223 | I mean, the abuse they get is terrible. | 我的意思是,他们受到的虐待是可怕的。 |
| 224 | And you are quite right. | 你说得对 |
| 225 | There are a | 有个 |
| 226 | lot of people who do not put themselves forward because they just feel they can't take that degree | 很多人因为觉得自己不能达到这个程度 所以不自首 |
| 227 | of insult. | 侮辱。 |
| 228 | And you would know more about this having having, I know, been subjected to the | 你会知道更多 关于这一点,我知道,曾经遭受过 |
| 229 | most appalling. | 最骇人听闻 |
| 230 | Can I pick up that point on women on boards? | 我能在板子上提到女人的问题吗? |
| 231 | 实际上,在FT, 在FTSE 100, | |
| 232 | there's one female CEO, head of a company. | 有个女首席执行官 公司负责人 |
| 233 | And actually, the majority of a lot of the women who | 事实上,大多数女性 |
| 234 | just can make the point about the women on boards, a lot of the women who went on boards | 说说板子上的女人吧 很多上板子的女人 |
| 235 | went on as NEDs. | 继续作为NED。 |
| 236 | And that was not a true board position. | 这不是真正的董事会职位。 |
| 237 | I'm a NED. | 我是一个NED。 |
| 238 | It means you do unpaid work. | 这意味着你做无报酬的工作。 |
| 239 | It's a non-exec director. | 非执执导. |
| 240 | And it means you don't really get the pay or the recognition. | 这说明你没有得到真正的工资或承认。 |
| 241 | And you don't get any pay. | 你没有得到任何报酬。 |
| 242 | No, not for my two boards. | 不,不为我的两块板。 |
| 243 | You mean I can get paid? | 你是说我能拿到报酬? |
| 244 | But the thing is, a lot of the women I've spoken to don't want to take, would not take on another | 但问题是,很多女人,我讲过 不想带,不会带另一个 |
| 245 | board, a NED role because of the abuse and exclusion and the experience they've had of | 董事会,NED角色 因为虐待和排斥 和他们的经验 |
| 246 | doing that role, which is a pity. | 做这个角色,这真是遗憾。 |
| 247 | But it's again, it's, you know, we have come a very long way, | 但还是,你知道,我们已经走了很长的路 |
| 248 | but we have more to do. | 但我们还有更多的工作要做。 |
| 249 | And one of my particular worries is because of going on to social media, | 我特别担心的是社交媒体 |
| 250 | is that we now have a channel which is amplifying the misogyny and hatred of women. | 我们现在有了一条渠道,正在扩大对妇女的厌恶和仇恨。 |
| 251 | And if you look | 如果你看着 |
| 252 | at the last amnesty report on this, you know, that in the US, 82% of women have changed their | 在美国,82%的妇女已经改变 |
| 253 | behaviour online. | 行为在线。 |
| 254 | And in the UK, it's 78% of women who've changed their behaviour. | 而在英国,改变行为的女性占78%. |
| 255 | They're | 他们是 |
| 256 | censoring themselves online. | 在网上审查自己 |
| 257 | And to me, that's wrong because of the names they're being called | 对我而言,这是错误的,因为他们的名字 |
| 258 | and the abuse they're getting. | 和他们的虐待。 |
| 259 | And so we do have to do something about the names, name calling, | 所以,我们必须做一些事情 关于名字, 名字呼叫, |
| 260 | if you like. | 如果你喜欢的话 |
| 261 | Well, for some women, especially on social media, the term difficult women and | 对一些妇女来说,特别是在社交媒体上, 困难女性和 |
| 262 | do you think that's the right way of approaching the situation? | 你觉得这是解决这种情况的正确方法吗? |
| 263 | I love the t-shirt. | 我喜欢T恤 |
| 264 | It was at the Forces Society. | 在部队协会 |
| 265 | They made a t-shirt, difficult women. | 他们做了一件T恤,困难的女人。 |
| 266 | And I actually did get a badge called bloody difficult women because it was Mrs May myself | 其实我确实得到了一个徽章 被称为血腥困难的女人, 因为这是梅太太自己 |
| 267 | because soon after I got called it too and I got a badge made. | 因为我被叫了之后,我得到了一个徽章。 |
| 268 | I think you embrace it to move on. | 我想你接受它 继续前进。 |
| 269 | Because in a way, if you those who are I think, in all forms of abuse, I think you if you give | 因为从某种意义上说,如果你是那些 我认为,在一切形式的虐待, 我想你 如果你给 |
| 270 | oxygen to the haters, then they in some way win and I won't let that happen. | 给仇恨者氧气,然后他们以某种方式获胜,我不会让这种情况发生。 |
| 271 | So I tend to just | 所以我倾向于 |
| 272 | sort of dismiss them, embrace it and move on. | 让他们离开,拥抱它,继续前进。 |
| 273 | Yeah, I mean, I've had to know so far so good. | 是啊,我的意思是,我不得不知道 至今为止很好。 |
| 274 | I mean, I've had no difficulty in getting women to do the podcast, which only launched a few | 我的意思是,我一直没有困难 让女人做播客, 它只推出了几个 |
| 275 | weeks ago. | 几个星期前 |
| 276 | But originally, I think LBC had an idea or I suggested the title Iron Ladies. | 但最初我觉得LBC有个主意 或者我建议了铁女士的名字 |
| 277 | And I | 还有我 |
| 278 | don't think that I think I would have really struggled to get Julia Langdon, you know, | 别以为我会为找茱莉亚·兰登而挣扎 |
| 279 | who worked for a left leaning newspaper to do a podcast called Iron Ladies. | 他为一家左倾报纸工作 做一个播客 叫铁女士。 |
| 280 | That was an aberration, | 那是个偏差, |
| 281 | Julia, in your long career. | 朱莉娅,在你漫长的职业生涯中。 |
| 282 | Okay, no, because as a journalist, you're neutral. | 好吧,不,因为作为一个记者,你是中立的。 |
| 283 | Yeah, I'm a political journalist. | 是的,我是一个政治记者。 |
| 284 | And the fact that I can be political editor of the Daily Mirror | 我可以做"每日镜报"的政治编辑 |
| 285 | and the Sunday Telegraph is a measure of my breadth as well. | 星期天的电报也是衡量我宽度的尺度 |
| 286 | It's a measure of my versatility. | 这是衡量我的多功能 |
| 287 | Exactly. | 没错 |
| 288 | But Priti Patel replied to my text saying please really do my podcast. | 但是Priti Patel回复了我的短信 说请帮我播客 |
| 289 | You know, I was thrilled, you know, on the same day, I'd love to do it. | 你知道,我很兴奋,你知道, 在同一天,我想这样做。 |
| 290 | I love the title. | 我喜欢这个头衔 |
| 291 | And she liked it because, you know, Home Secretaries have a really tough gig, obviously, | 她喜欢它,因为,你知道, 内政大臣有一个非常艰难的工作, 显然, |
| 292 | and, you know, she's got the hardest department to manage. | 而且,你知道,她有 最难管理的部门。 |
| 293 | I mean, she has to be difficult, | 我的意思是,她必须艰难, |
| 294 | doesn't she? | 是吗? |
| 295 | Yeah, the point about Iron Ladies, though, I've just, there's a book out called | 是的,关于铁女士的要点, 但我刚刚, 有一本书叫 |
| 296 | Prime Ministers, and I did Mrs. Thatcher, the chapter on Mrs. Thatcher in Rachel's colleague, | 首相们,我做了撒切尔夫人, 关于撒切尔夫人的章节 在拉切尔的同事, |
| 297 | Ian Dale is the editor of this book on Prime Ministers. | 伊恩·戴尔是这本关于总理的书的编辑. |
| 298 | And Mrs. Thatcher was labeled the | 撒切尔夫人被贴上了 |
| 299 | Iron Lady by the Russians, or then the Soviet Union. | 铁夫人被俄国人, 或后来苏联。 |
| 300 | And actually, they were trying to say, | 实际上,他们想说, |
| 301 | what's that weapon of torture called the Iron Maiden, which was, you know, where you, | 那种折磨武器叫"铁女神" 你在哪里 |
| 302 | and they were trying to say she was a weapon of torture, but it was translated as Iron Lady. | 他们试图说她是一个酷刑武器, 但它被翻译为铁夫人。 |
| 303 | And she loved it. | 她很喜欢 |
| 304 | And she thought, absolutely brilliant. | 她认为,非常聪明。 |
| 305 | So what does she do? | 那她怎么办? |
| 306 | She buys a red | 她买红的 |
| 307 | dress and dashes off to Kensington Town Hall to the Kensington Conservatives and says, | 穿裙子去肯辛顿市政厅 去肯辛顿保守党说 |
| 308 | I'm the Iron Lady. | 我是铁娘子 |
| 309 | You know, really, she loved it. | 你知道,真的,她喜欢它。 |
| 310 | I wanted to pick up on this. | 我想接这个 |
| 311 | Yeah, I wanted to | 对,我想 |
| 312 | pick up on this point about women censoring themselves. | 关于女性自我审查的问题, |
| 313 | I mean, we have a lot of young | 我的意思是,我们有很多的年轻 |
| 314 | women in the audience tonight. | 女人在观众今晚。 |
| 315 | Is that something that you struggle with? | 这是你挣扎的东西吗? |
| 316 | Are we going to be taking | 我们是不是要拿 |
| 317 | questions? | 问题? |
| 318 | Yes, we will. | 是的,我们会的。 |
| 319 | So do prepare your questions for later. | 因此,请准备你的问题 以后。 |
| 320 | Is that something that | 是这样吗? |
| 321 | each of each of you struggled with, sort of the fear of whether or not to do what you're about | 你们每个人都挣扎着, 有点害怕 是否做你们想做的事 |
| 322 | to do in your careers? | 做你的事业? |
| 323 | My problem is I don't self-censor. | 我的问题是我不自我审查。 |
| 324 | And it's very hard now. | 而今甚难. |
| 325 | I have a | 我有一个 |
| 326 | two and sometimes three hour radio show. | 两个,有时三个小时的无线电节目。 |
| 327 | And you can imagine during cancel culture times we live in | 你可以想象,在取消文化时期 我们生活在 |
| 328 | doing, for example, on Sunday night, the the demonstrations in North London against | 例如,星期天晚上,北伦敦的示威游行反对 |
| 329 | the Jews from the Palestine demonstrations. | 巴勒斯坦示威的犹太人 |
| 330 | And I had to manage calls on that. | 我不得不处理这个电话。 |
| 331 | And I, you know, | 我,你知道吗, |
| 332 | you're aware that in this climate, any single one word you say can lead to you losing your job. | 你知道在这个气候下 你所说的任何一句话 都会导致你失业 |
| 333 | So self-censorship is very, very important at the moment. | 因此,自我审查在目前非常重要。 |
| 334 | As a person, I'm not I'm quite | 作为一个人,我并不完全 |
| 335 | forthright and frank. | 直截了当的,坦率的。 |
| 336 | I mean, Gina is the same. | 我的意思是,吉娜是一样的。 |
| 337 | And I think it's quite I don't like the fact that | 我觉得我不喜欢这样 |
| 338 | we have to check ourselves. | 我们必须检查自己。 |
| 339 | But luckily, at LBC, there are two buttons on the left to the left of | 但幸运的是,在LBC,左边和左边有两个按钮 |
| 340 | the my desk. | 是我的书桌 |
| 341 | One is cough. | 一个是咳嗽。 |
| 342 | So if I'm going to, I want in my first show, I was eating a packet of | 所以,如果我要去,我想在我的第一次演出, 我吃一包 |
| 343 | crisps and had the biggest coughing fit I'd ever had. | 脆饼和最大的咳嗽 我曾经有过。 |
| 344 | And I didn't know the cough button exists. | 我不知道咳嗽按钮的存在。 |
| 345 | So the producer came in and said, I need to show you two buttons. | 所以制片人进来说,我要给你们看两个按钮. |
| 346 | I can't believe you don't know | 我不敢相信你还不知道 |
| 347 | cough. | 咳嗽声。 |
| 348 | So you can go. | 这样你就可以走了。 |
| 349 | And then there's one called dump. | 然后有一个叫做垃圾。 |
| 350 | So if somebody says something offensive, | 所以,如果有人说 攻击性的东西, |
| 351 | or libelous, or mentions a company or attack somebody personally, who is not there to defend | 或诽谤, 或提到公司或攻击个人, 谁不在那里辩护 |
| 352 | themselves, you can dump, dump them off. | 自己,你可以丢掉,丢掉 |
| 353 | I recommend it to everybody. | 我推荐给大家 |
| 354 | I was gonna say I | 我本来想说 |
| 355 | don't tend to censor what I'm saying. | 别老是检查我说的话 |
| 356 | I'm I think about what I'm going to say. | 思惟如来所说. |
| 357 | And I stick to my | 我坚持我的 |
| 358 | point of view. | 观点。 |
| 359 | And I won't shut down somebody else. | 我不会把别人关起来 |
| 360 | I'd prefer to have, I quite often go to | 我宁愿有,我经常去 |
| 361 | situations where I know I'll be with people who don't agree with me. | 在那种情况下,我知道我会和那些不同意我的人在一起。 |
| 362 | Because I think it's important | 因为我觉得这很重要 |
| 363 | that we have those conversations. | 我们有这些对话。 |
| 364 | And you're not censored, but you're sensible. | 而且你没有被审查, 但你很明智。 |
| 365 | And you're truthful | 你是诚实的 |
| 366 | and honest, because we can't go through society, just having a singular view, or talking to just | 老实说,因为我们不能通过社会, 仅仅有一个单一的视野, 或说话只是 |
| 367 | those who do who agree with us. | 那些同意我们意见的人。 |
| 368 | Because we don't grow. | 因为我们没有成长 |
| 369 | No, no, no, I will actually very | 不,不,不,我会非常 |
| 370 | politely, if someone has just threatened to rape me, I will send them, I think, dear, | 礼貌地说 如果有人威胁要强奸我 我会派他们去 亲爱的 |
| 371 | whoever they are, and answer them and say, Could you just now you've got out of that, | 不管他们是谁 回答他们 说 你刚才能摆脱这一切吗 |
| 372 | you've got that anger out? | 你生气了吗? |
| 373 | What is it that you wanted to tell me? | 你想告诉我什么? |
| 374 | And it's quite extraordinary | 这是相当不寻常的 |
| 375 | how people are confronted with that. | 人们是如何面对这种情况的。 |
| 376 | Or if I if someone calls me a monkey, I'll go, you know, | 或者如果我有人叫我猴子 我会去的 |
| 377 | in the streets, I was walking along the other day, and someone said, bitch, you know, you're just | 在街上,我走 沿着一天, 有人说,婊子,你知道,你只是 |
| 378 | like a monkey, why don't you go back to the jungle? | 像猴子一样,你为什么不回丛林去? |
| 379 | And I said, I just stopped. | 我说,我只是停下来。 |
| 380 | And I said, | 我说, |
| 381 | actually, I'm a great fan of monkeys. | 事实上,我是猴子的忠实粉丝 |
| 382 | I really think they're gorgeous creatures. | 我真的觉得他们是美丽的生物。 |
| 383 | But which | 但哪个 |
| 384 | particular jungle were you thinking that I came from? | 特别的丛林 你觉得我来自哪里? |
| 385 | And he just sort of I mean, because I think | 他只是有点我的意思, 因为我认为 |
| 386 | it's really important that I won't censor myself, but I will sense other people by not letting them | 这真的很重要,我不会审查自己, 但我会感觉到其他人,不让他们 |
| 387 | get away with abuse. | 远离虐待。 |
| 388 | But I it's the way I do it. | 但我是这么干的 |
| 389 | And I and it's really, I have learned it's something | 我学到了什么 |
| 390 | you can learn, because I've learned to deal with abuse in a particular way, where I think | 你可以学习, 因为我学会了处理 虐待的方式, 在那里我认为 |
| 391 | I benefit from it, but so does the other person. | 我从中得益 但另一个人也一样 |
| 392 | And because I won't let those small things go away. | 因为我不会让这些小东西消失的 |
| 393 | So but it's something I've learned. | 所以,但这是我学到的东西。 |
| 394 | And the good news is, you can learn it. | 好消息是,你可以学习 |
| 395 | When I first started, | 当我开始的时候, |
| 396 | I used to shake before I was responding. | 答前常摇. |
| 397 | If I was going to respond like that, now I just take a | 如果我要这样回应, 现在我只是采取 |
| 398 | breath, breathe, and then I will respond. | 呼吸,呼吸,然后我会回应。 |
| 399 | Dina, didn't you actually have personal security? | 迪娜,你真的没有人身安全吗? |
| 400 | For four, three years? | 四三年吗? |
| 401 | Yes. | 对 |
| 402 | You know, it's very brave of you actually, to talk to somebody who's | 你知道,这是非常勇敢的你, 说话的人谁 |
| 403 | abusing you in the street. | 在街上虐待你。 |
| 404 | But I think it's important, because they don't know me. | 但我觉得这很重要 因为他们不认识我 |
| 405 | And then | 礛 |
| 406 | all that happens is they carry on with the with the thought that's in their head that I must be | 所有发生的事情是,他们继续 与他们的想法 在他们的脑海里,我必须是 |
| 407 | this bitch, I must be this difficult woman. | 这个婊子,我一定是这个困难的女人。 |
| 408 | Whereas when I respond, you know, it breaks that | 而当我回答,你知道, 它打破了 |
| 409 | full process. | 整个过程。 |
| 410 | Because I think then, if you unless you confront somebody, unless you do, you have to | 因为我想,那么,如果你 除非你面对某人, 除非你这样做,你必须 |
| 411 | be brave, though. | 勇敢点 |
| 412 | Somebody told me once that when someone had threatened to rape her, she said, | 有人告诉我 有人威胁要强奸她 她说 |
| 413 | Yes, yes. | 对,对。 |
| 414 | And what are you going to do next? | 你接下来要做什么? |
| 415 | But that's when you learn to do it. | 但当学此法. |
| 416 | But you have to | 但你必须 |
| 417 | you must have to be so brave. | 你一定要这么勇敢 |
| 418 | I do it because I do it because I'm a product of my of lots of failures | 我这样做是因为我是失败的产物 |
| 419 | and bad of, you know, the consequences of my life, which means that I think I have a responsibility | 和坏的,你知道, 后果我的生活, 这意味着我认为我有责任 |
| 420 | now for maybe other people, women or men who are not so brave. | 现在,也许其他人, 女人或男人 谁不那么勇敢。 |
| 421 | And because I happen to be me and | 因为我恰好是我 |
| 422 | I am in the place I'm at now, and I don't have anybody that I have to answer to, both from a | 我身处此地 现在,我没有任何人 我不得不回答,从一个 |
| 423 | business point of view or politically, whatever, then I have great freedom to be to be able to | 商业观点或政治观点,不管怎样, 那么我有很大的自由 能够 |
| 424 | confront people. | 对抗人们。 |
| 425 | And I do feel it's a duty that I have to do that. | 我觉得我有责任这么做 |
| 426 | Do you think that the responsibility | 你认为责任 |
| 427 | should be on women or is on women because there's nobody else to bear that burden? | 应该是女人身上还是女人身上 因为没有人能承受这种负担? |
| 428 | It's on everyone. | 诸人皆得. |
| 429 | I want my son and my husband and my brothers to all stand up for me, too. | 我希望我的儿子和我的丈夫 和我的兄弟们都支持我。 |
| 430 | I | 一、导 言 |
| 431 | don't want to be the only one doing it. | 不想成为唯一这样做的人。 |
| 432 | We should all stand up for each other. | 皆应拥护. |
| 433 | It can't just be on | 不能就这么开着 |
| 434 | women. | 女人们 |
| 435 | And in linking that into social media, we've seen huge communities of sort of women | 在社交媒体上,我们看到了巨大的女性群体 |
| 436 | online and growing feminist channels and all that kind of thing. | 网络上和不断增长的女权主义频道 和所有这类的东西。 |
| 437 | But we've also seen, like you said, | 但我们也看到了,就像你说的, |
| 438 | growth and abuse of women. | 妇女的成长和虐待。 |
| 439 | Do you think the social media will sort of help the progress of women | 你认为社交媒体会帮助女性进步吗? |
| 440 | and women's empowerment, or do you think it will ultimately hinder that movement? | 或者你认为这最终会阻碍运动? |
| 441 | Facebook是否在做一些工作, | |
| 442 | I mean, | 我是说... |
| 443 | 我不做Facebook特别。 | |
| 444 | I try not to look at Twitter, especially after I've done | 我尽量不看推特, 特别是我做了之后 |
| 445 | anything on television, because people just say Boris in a wig. | 任何电视上的东西, 因为人们只是说鲍里斯在一个假发。 |
| 446 | Does Rachel Johnson go to a 70s | 瑞秋强生70多岁 |
| 447 | hairdresser? | 理发师? |
| 448 | You must never put your name into social media, essentially, is my first | 你永远不能把你的名字 社交媒体,本质上,是我的第一个 |
| 449 | rule of life. | 生活规则。 |
| 450 | It's just a cesspit if you do that. | 如果你这么做,那只是个垃圾 |
| 451 | It's like a form of self-abuse. | 谓自性之形. |
| 452 | And don't forget men get abused, too. | 别忘了男人也会受到虐待 |
| 453 | I don't do Twitter. | 我不做微博的 微博 |
| 454 | So how do you know men are getting | 所以,你怎么知道男人会得到 |
| 455 | abused? | 虐待? |
| 456 | Because I have friends who do get abused, who are on Twitter, who feel the need to respond | 因为我有朋友 被虐待, 谁在推特上, |
| 457 | to people and then get into... | 然后进入... |
| 458 | I'm sure you guys all tweet, you know, but they get into a row with | 我敢肯定,你们都微博, 你知道,但他们 排成一排 |
| 459 | somebody. | 有人吗? |
| 460 | And I mean, one of my men friends who's a well-known journalist had another well-known | 我的意思是,我的一个男人朋友 谁是一个著名的记者 有另一个著名的 |
| 461 | journalist saying he was going to come around and kill him. | 记者说他要过来杀了他 |
| 462 | I know who you're talking about, | 我知道你在说什么 |
| 463 | Mike White and Giles Corran. | 迈克·怀特和吉尔斯·科伦. |
| 464 | That's exactly so, yes. | 没错 |
| 465 | Why is standing up and saying something | 为什么站起来说些什么 |
| 466 | somebody doesn't agree with result in a death threat or rape test? | 有人不同意死亡威胁或强奸测试的结果吗? |
| 467 | I mean, it is completely | 我的意思是,这是完全的 |
| 468 | absurd that in a society where that seems to be, you know, is a normal response. | 荒谬的是,在一个社会里, 这似乎是一种正常的反应。 |
| 469 | You know, | 你知道吗, |
| 470 | we have to get to a place where we can talk to each other. | 我们必须去一个我们可以互相交谈的地方 |
| 471 | Well, it's because of the presence | 嗯,这是因为存在 |
| 472 | of social media. | 社会媒体。 |
| 473 | I mean, in the 70s, I mean, if you want to abuse a woman, you have to, you know, | 我的意思是,在70年代,我的意思是, 如果你想虐待一个女人, 你必须,你知道, |
| 474 | go to a park or go to a pub and chat her up or attack her in the street. | 去公园或者去酒吧跟她聊天 或者在街上攻击她 |
| 475 | But now it's terribly | 但是现在很可怕 |
| 476 | easy. | 轻点 |
| 477 | You can just get out your phone and do it and send something off within a few seconds. | 你可以拿出你的手机 并做它 发送的东西在几秒钟内。 |
| 478 | We'll probably end up going off topic. | 我们可能最终会失去话题。 |
| 479 | The social media obviously amplifies every | 社交媒体显然将每个 |
| 480 | single disagreement and unpleasant thought you've ever had and gives it. | 一次分歧和不愉快的想法 你曾经有过和给予它。 |
| 481 | Well, I'm campaigning at the moment on the online safety bill because I think there are big gaps in | 我目前正在网上宣传安全法案 因为我认为在 |
| 482 | it. | 这个 |
| 483 | I've, you know, I campaigned all of last year for it to be brought back into this parliament | 我,你知道,去年我一直宣传 要把它带回议会 |
| 484 | this year, not in the original 2024. | 今年,不是在2024年的最初。 |
| 485 | So, you know, we were successful in bringing it back, | 所以,你知道,我们成功地把它带回来, |
| 486 | but we haven't seen the draft bill yet. | 但我们还没有看到法案草案。 |
| 487 | But I am very concerned that there are lots of gaps in it | 但我非常担心 里面有很多漏洞 |
| 488 | because, you know, we now have a toxic Twitter environment or social media platforms. | 因为,你知道,我们现在有一个有毒的Twitter环境 或者社交媒体平台。 |
| 489 | Because if | 因为如果 |
| 490 | you think about it, so you talked about the six cars are going through North London. | 你想想,所以你谈到 六辆汽车正在穿越北伦敦。 |
| 491 | The Palestinian | 巴勒斯坦 |
| 492 | protesters, you know, shouting out to young Jewish women, to the young women walking along, | 抗议者,你知道, 大声喊着 年轻的犹太妇女, 青年妇女走在身边, |
| 493 | you know, North London and Hampstead. | 你知道,北伦敦和汉普斯特德。 |
| 494 | And every MP suddenly jumped up and started talking about | 每个议员突然跳起来 开始谈论 |
| 495 | how horrific this that happens in its millions online. | 这在数百万的网上 是多么可怕 |
| 496 | I mean, just because, you know, online | 我的意思是,只是因为,你知道,在线 |
| 497 | should be treated the same as it is offline. | 应像离线一样对待。 |
| 498 | And that's where I think, you know, we've got | 这正是我想,你知道,我们得到了 |
| 499 | platforms that are poisonous environments where people are walking their lives and having to | 这些平台是有毒的环境,人们正在行走自己的生活,不得不 |
| 500 | check themselves, where these platforms are earning billions with impunity. | 请检查date=中的日期值 (帮助) |
| 501 | And where is it, | 和在哪里,这是 |
| 502 | you know, where's the responsibility? | 你知道,责任在哪里? |
| 503 | So there has got to be a duty of care. | 所以,必须有一个责任 照顾。 |
| 504 | There's the block and report, you know, if you have a rain threat. | 那边有个街区 报告一下 如果你有雨的威胁 |
| 505 | They have more duty of care than that. | 他们比这更需要照顾 |
| 506 | They have to have more duty to care that. | 他们必须有更多的责任去照顾它。 |
| 507 | But I think there | 但我认为那里 |
| 508 | is, you know, if we're going to live our lives virtually and online, which we are, then there | 就是,你知道,如果我们要过 我们的生活 几乎和在线, |
| 509 | has to be more of our lives. | 我们的生活必须更多 |
| 510 | Thank you for coming in person, everybody. | 谢谢你亲自来,各位 |
| 511 | What does it feel like? | 感觉怎么样? |
| 512 | Is | 已经 |
| 513 | it good? | 好吃吗? |
| 514 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 515 | But no, there has to be rules offline. | 但不行 一定有规则断线 |
| 516 | If more of our lives are online, then we | 如果我们的生活更多在线,那么我们 |
| 517 | have to have those same rules online. | 必须要有同样的规则在线。 |
| 518 | There are regulations. | 有规定。 |
| 519 | 我记得当Twitter开始和 | |
| 520 | I first joined somebody, some very, very wise person said something to me. | 我第一次加入某个人 某个非常聪明的人对我说了些什么 |
| 521 | You are publishing | 你在发表 |
| 522 | a tweet. | 一个微博。 |
| 523 | You are responsible for this tweet. | 这个微博是你负责的 |
| 524 | Imagine you have written this tweet and it's | 想象一下你写了这个微博 |
| 525 | going around a ticker tape on Times Square. | 环绕着时代广场的磁带 |
| 526 | It's not just to Gina Miller, it's to the world. | 不单是吉娜·米勒,是世界 |
| 527 | And actually, somebody I was in the Big Brother house with, I never thought I'd say those words | 其实,我和一个人在大哥哥家 我从来没有想过我会说那些话 |
| 528 | in this chamber, who was a contestant on Celebrity, no, not on Celebrity, on The Apprentice, | 曾经是名人队的选手 不是名人队的选手 |
| 529 | 他后来和Caroline Flack订婚了 | |
| 530 | Do you know who I'm talking | 你知道我在说什么吗? |
| 531 | about? | 关于? |
| 532 | We are not allowed to say she lost her life. | 我们不能说她死了 |
| 533 | What do you say instead of committed suicide | 你怎么说,而不是自杀 |
| 534 | now? | 现在? |
| 535 | There's a whole- Died by suicide. | 有一个整体... 死于自杀. |
| 536 | Died by suicide. | 死于自杀. |
| 537 | She took her own life last year. | 去年她自杀了 |
| 538 | He thought that she had been partly driven to her suicide by social media and tabloids. | 他认为她部分被社交媒体和小报驱使自杀. |
| 539 | He started | 他开始 |
| 540 | attacking a journalist on social media, one particular journalist, and he went to prison, | 在社交媒体上袭击一名记者, 一个特定的记者, 他进了监狱, |
| 541 | and he was in prison last week for that. | 上周他为此入狱 |
| 542 | I mean, there are serious consequences. | 我的意思是,有严重的后果。 |
| 543 | Andrew Brady | 安德鲁·布雷迪 |
| 544 | was in prison in Doncaster last week, and he's out on bail. | 上周在唐卡斯特监狱 他被保释了 |
| 545 | You say that it's as if it doesn't | 你说这就像它没有 |
| 546 | matter because it's online. | 因为它在网上。 |
| 547 | No, this is real life. | 不,这是真实的生活。 |
| 548 | What I'm saying is this stuff, because it's online, | 我想说的是这些东西,因为它是在线的, |
| 549 | it's just as legally actionable as if it was in the street, is what I'm saying. | 就像在街上一样 法律上是可行的 |
| 550 | Somebody I know | 我认识的人 |
| 551 | actually was in prison last week for having threatened a journalist on Twitter, which gives | 上周因在推特上威胁记者入狱, |
| 552 | you pause for thought, doesn't it? | 你暂停思考,不是吗? |
| 553 | Because think of all those people- Because of my case, I set the | 因为想想那些人... 因为我的案子,我设置 |
| 554 | precedent, because I got two people I took to court, one on Facebook and one online, and actually | 因为我有两个人被送上法庭 一个在Facebook上 一个在网上 |
| 555 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH | |
| 556 | fundraising page, which the headline said, raising £10,000 to hire a hitman to kill Jeanne Miller. | 筹资页面,头条说, 筹集1万英镑 雇用杀手杀死珍妮米勒。 |
| 557 | That was actually up for five months, and their algorithm apparently didn't find that, kill, | 这实际上长达五个月, 他们的算法显然没有找到,杀死, |
| 558 | murder, hitman, I mean, whatever. | 谋杀,杀手,我的意思是,随便。 |
| 559 | I mean, it is quite extraordinary, and I took that one to court, | 我的意思是,这是相当不同寻常的, 我拿那一个在法庭上, |
| 560 | and the platform got off scot-free because it's not registered in the UK, it's registered in LA, | 而平台因为没有在英国注册,在洛杉矶注册而免了Scot. |
| 561 | and the perpetrator got £200 fine for my distress that that caused me, and that was it. | 凶手因为我的痛苦被罚了200英镑,就这样 |
| 562 | It is quite crazy how toxic this is all getting, but I think in the bigger point, it's not just | 这一切的毒性是多么的疯狂, 但我认为在更大的点, 这不仅仅是 |
| 563 | about women. | 关于女人。 |
| 564 | My eldest daughter has got special needs, she's a 33-year-old young woman with | 我的长女有特别的需要, 她是一个33岁的年轻女人与 |
| 565 | special needs, and the stuff- People don't know she's my daughter, but when she was on Facebook, | 特殊需要,和东西 - 人们不知道她是我女儿 但是当她在Facebook上 |
| 566 | she's no longer on Facebook, but when she put out that she had special needs, and the things that | 她不再在Facebook上, 但当她发布 她有特殊需要, |
| 567 | got sent, and the abuse, and I had to try and close down her page. | 和虐待, 我不得不尝试关闭她的页面。 |
| 568 | It was absolutely disgusting, | 太恶心了 |
| 569 | the sexual abuse and everything she got, but because her mental age was only five or six, | 因为她只有五六岁 |
| 570 | and she couldn't remember her password, so I tried to close down her page, and they wouldn't | 她不记得她的密码 所以我试图关闭她的页面 他们不会 |
| 571 | let me because they said she was over 18. | 因为他们说她已经18岁了 |
| 572 | It took me months and months for them to do that. | 他们花了我好几个月才这样做。 |
| 573 | I mean, | 我是说... |
| 574 | there has to be a responsibility here. | 这里一定有责任 |
| 575 | There has to be responsibility when it comes to vulnerable | 面对弱势,必须承担责任 |
| 576 | people, and when we get back to this idea of difficult women, not all women or whoever it is, | 当我们回到困难女人的观念时 并不是所有女人或任何人 |
| 577 | not everyone has the strength of character or personality to stand up against bullies and | 不是每个人都有性格或个性的力量 来对抗恶霸和 |
| 578 | against abusers, so we have to look out for each other, and there have to be rules and regulations | 对抗虐待者,所以我们必须互相照顾,必须有规章制度 |
| 579 | in place that means that we look out for each other, because not everybody can be that strong. | 也就是说我们互相照顾 因为不是每个人都能那么坚强 |
| 580 | There are people, you don't know what someone's going through at that point in their lives, | 有的人,你不知道 一个人的遭遇 在他们的生活, |
| 581 | they might be going through depression, you don't know where they are in their lives at that moment, | 他们可能正在经历抑郁, 你不知道他们在哪里 他们的生活在那一刻, |
| 582 | and they might not be able to handle the abuse and the labelling that they're getting at that moment, | 而他们可能无法处理 滥用和标签 他们得到的那一刻, |
| 583 | so we have got to have a more compassionate society. | 因此,我们必须有一个更富有同情心的社会。 |
| 584 | You did have a man sent to prison, | 你有一个人被送进监狱 |
| 585 | though, did you not? | 不过,你没有吗? |
| 586 | I had a Viscount who went to centre prison, and I had an 8c synthesis, | 我有一个子爵 谁去中心监狱, 我有一个8c合成, |
| 587 | I keep setting precedence in law, because online they said the laws weren't actually | 我总是把法律放在首位,因为网上 他们说法律其实不是 |
| 588 | capable, which is why he, yeah, but no, it's not going far enough, there's a lot of legislation | 所以他,是的,但是不, 它不够远,有很多立法 |
| 589 | was in place before technology and digital, and so they need updating, but that again is another, | 在技术和数字化之前就已经到位了 所以它们需要更新 但这也是另一个 |
| 590 | there's hundreds of laws that need to go through that process. | 有上百条法律需要经过这个过程。 |
| 591 | Away from social media, I mean, | 远离社交媒体,我的意思是, |
| 592 | all of you have worked in places that could be reasonably described as the establishment, | 你们都曾在可以合理描述为机构的地方工作过, |
| 593 | junior and law and parliament, and even in The Lady magazine, what advice would you give to | 初中、法律、议会 甚至在《女士》杂志上 你会给什么建议 |
| 594 | women who are trying to forge their way in the workplace and maybe feel that | 试图在工作场所造路的妇女也许感到 |
| 595 | their womanhood is used to sort of knock them down or knock them back? | 她们的性格用来打倒她们还是打倒她们? |
| 596 | I just want to say one thing, I mean, I talked about that per somebody who went to prison and | 我只想说一件事,我的意思是,我谈论了 一个人谁去监狱和 |
| 597 | probably shouldn't have done, so I'm now self-censoring, because I don't really | 也许不该做, 所以我现在自我审查, 因为我不是真的 |
| 598 | know the ins and outs of that case, so I just want to leave that there. | 了解那个案子的内幕 所以我想把那个留在那里 |
| 599 | I think it's, I have a | 我想这是,我有 |
| 600 | daughter of 26, and it's extraordinary, I mean, when I, in my first year at the FT, I joined, | 26岁的女儿,这是非凡的, 我的意思是,当我, 当我第一年 在FT,我加入了, |
| 601 | I left Oxford, I went as a graduate trainee to the Financial Times, the same time as another | 我离开牛津,我作为一个毕业生 实习到金融时报, 与另一个时间 |
| 602 | Oxford graduate in my year, and I discovered after a year that his salary had been bumped up | 牛津大学毕业,我发现一年后 他的工资已经上涨 |
| 603 | by about sort of 3000 or something, and mine hadn't been, and I remember having, feeling very | 大约3000左右, 而我没有, 我记得有,感觉非常 |
| 604 | righteous indignation and going into the managing editor's office and saying, why did you put up | 正义的愤慨,走进主编办公室,说,你为什么提出 |
| 605 | John, because he was actually called John, John's salary and not mine, and the managing editor | 约翰,因为他实际上叫约翰, 约翰的工资,不是我的, 和总编辑 |
| 606 | couldn't reach for that usual argument, which is that he's got a wife and kids to support, | 无法接受那个通常的争论, 那就是他有一个妻子和孩子支持, |
| 607 | because we were both 23 or 24, and he looked at me and it was as if he had understood something | 因为我们都是23岁或24岁 他看着我 好像他懂了什么 |
| 608 | the very first time in his life, that there's, that you should actually apply the Equal Pay Act | 这是他生命中第一次,有, 你实际上应该应用 同酬法案 |
| 609 | of 1970. | 1970年的《宪法》。 |
| 610 | With my own daughter, I, who's immensely grounded and competent young woman, | 和我自己的女儿,我, 她是一个非常有根基和有能力的年轻女子, |
| 611 | you know, she dreads me saying this, but I say to her, you know, you got a promotion, | 你知道,她害怕我这样说, 但我说,你知道,你有晋升, |
| 612 | did you ask for a pay rise? | 你要求加薪吗? |
| 613 | And she goes, well, no, it's, you know, the pay thing is done separately, | 她去,嗯,不,这是,你知道, 报酬的事情是分开的, |
| 614 | and I'm sure, you know, it will happen sort of later in the year, and I go, it won't, you know. | 我敢肯定,你知道,它会发生 大约在今年晚些时候, 我走了,它不会,你知道的。 |
| 615 | So I always, whenever I do any events at any schools or anything, I used to have, | 所以我总是,每当我 做任何活动 在任何学校或任何东西,我曾经有, |
| 616 | my phrase would always be, be pushy to women. | 我的话会永远是, 冲着女人。 |
| 617 | I mean, it's one of these, pushy is a word that | 我的意思是,这是其中之一, 推是一个词, |
| 618 | when it's applied to women means, she's asking for something that men take for granted, essentially. | 当它适用于女人的意思, 她要求的东西 男人认为理所当然,基本上。 |
| 619 | It's like feisty means a woman who doesn't let men talk over her. | 这就像feisty意味着一个女人 谁不让男人谈论她。 |
| 620 | Bossy的意思是说 | |
| 621 | somebody what they should be doing in their job. | 别人应该做什么 他们的工作。 |
| 622 | You know, nagging is asking something, asking a | 你知道,唠叨是 问的东西,问一个 |
| 623 | man to do something that he said he would do. | 做他说过会做的事 |
| 624 | You know, these are words that are completely | 你知道,这些话是完全 |
| 625 | derogatory, that mean women are placed in a sort of box, not even a bitch box, just a kind of | 贬义,意思是女人被放在一个盒子里 甚至一个婊子盒子,只是一种 |
| 626 | annoying box, which is even worse, and enables men then to sort of say, you know, bloody difficult | 讨厌的盒子,这更糟糕, 让男人们可以说,你知道,血腥的艰难 |
| 627 | women when they leave the room. | 女人离开房间时 |
| 628 | I think in answer to your question about the two things | 我想在回答你关于两件事的问题时 |
| 629 | when I'm doing my talks, I say is, you know, stop saying sorry. | 当我说话的时候,我说,你知道,停止说对不起。 |
| 630 | We have this habit of knocking on | 我们有这种习惯 敲打 |
| 631 | the door, and the first word that comes out of your mouth is sorry. | 门,第一个字 从你嘴里出来,对不起。 |
| 632 | And I say, when you go to | 我说,当你去 |
| 633 | work or when you enter the workplace, you're not sorry for anything, you've earned your place there. | 工作,或者当你进入工作场所, 你不为任何事感到抱歉, 你已经赢得了你的位子。 |
| 634 | So don't stop, you know, limit your sorries, how many sorries you're going to say in a day. | 所以不要停止,你知道, 限制你的求爱, 多少的求爱 你要去说一天。 |
| 635 | It's just one of those things we're socialised into saying. | 这只是我们社会上所说的其中之一。 |
| 636 | The other one I have, sorry, just before, I had a few, I always had an intern every week in the | 还有一个,对不起,刚才,我有一些, 我总是每周有一个实习生在... |
| 637 | lady, and I had one who would knock on my door and say, can I ask you a question? | 女士,我有一个谁会敲我的门 说,我可以问你一个问题吗? |
| 638 | And I'd say, never | 我会说,从来没有 |
| 639 | say ask, can I ask you a question? | 问,我能问你一个问题吗? |
| 640 | Just come in and ask the question. | 进来问个问题 |
| 641 | And then she, and now she's a | 然后她,现在她是一个 |
| 642 | screenwriter, you know, I mean, nothing to do with me, she was talented. | 编剧,你知道,我的意思是, 与我无关,她是有才华的。 |
| 643 | But can I ask you a question | 但我能问你一个问题吗? |
| 644 | is why do you need permission to ask if you're going to ask a question? | 为什么你要问一个问题? |
| 645 | It's a very womanly | 这是一个非常女性化 |
| 646 | thing to do. | 事情做起来。 |
| 647 | My second one I say to a lot of young people is you don't go to work to be liked. | 我对很多年轻人说的第二句话 就是你不去工作 不被喜欢 |
| 648 | You know, they're not going to go, oh, well, you know, I wonder what's going on. | 你知道,他们不会去, 哦,嗯,你知道,我不知道是怎么回事。 |
| 649 | You don't go to | 你不会去 |
| 650 | work to be liked. | 被喜欢的工作。 |
| 651 | You have your friends and your families and the people who like you. | 你有你的朋友和家人 还有喜欢你的人 |
| 652 | You go to | 你们去 |
| 653 | work to do a job and to be productive and to achieve something and to make a difference in | 工作,做一个工作,做一个生产, 并取得一些成就和有所作为 |
| 654 | the world and to life and to whatever profession. | 世界、生命、职业 |
| 655 | That's what you go to work with. | 这就是你去工作。 |
| 656 | And, you know, | 还有,你知道, |
| 657 | it's sort of getting rid of, you know, again, going back to the sociologists in this is that | 这算是摆脱,你知道, 再次,回到 社会学家在这里是 |
| 658 | society socialize us to thinking we should be smiling and we should be, you know, we should be | 社会将我们社会化 认为我们应该微笑 我们应该,你知道,我们应该 |
| 659 | less aggressive and all these things. | 减少攻击性 和所有这些东西。 |
| 660 | And they're all social constructs to limit women. | 它们都是限制女性的社会结构。 |
| 661 | And I think | 我觉得 |
| 662 | we ourselves have to we have to have give ourselves permission not to be, you know, not to conform to | 我们自己必须得允许自己不服从 |
| 663 | those social constructs. | 那些社会结构。 |
| 664 | And, you know, one of the things I'm noticing and I'm very wary of in the | 而且,你知道,一件事 我注意到 而且我非常小心在 |
| 665 | hybrid working and working from home is presenteeism from the office is now happening | 混合工作和在家工作是办公室的现成 |
| 666 | at home. | 在家的时候 |
| 667 | And I have lots and lots of a lot of women who are who I call it virtual mansplain | 我有很多女人,我称之为虚拟男性 |
| 668 | so that they are being left out of Zoom meetings. | 以免他们遭遇暴风雨。 |
| 669 | They're being left out of pictures. | 他们被抛在照片之外 |
| 670 | They're being | 他们正在 |
| 671 | it's happening because they're working from home or the excuse that, oh, we won't call her disturb | 这是因为他们在家里工作 或借口,哦,我们不会叫她打扰 |
| 672 | her now because we know she's got the kids. | 因为我们知道她有孩子了 |
| 673 | This is when we were locked up. | 这是我们被关起来的时候 |
| 674 | It's happening as an | 它的发生作为一个 |
| 675 | frightening degree. | 可怕的学位。 |
| 676 | And two thirds of latest data, two thirds of women are thinking of either | 三分之二的最新数据 三分之二的妇女认为 |
| 677 | going fully part time or leaving the workplace or who are professional women. | 完全从事非全日制工作或离开工作场所或职业妇女。 |
| 678 | I mean, it is | 我的意思是,这是 |
| 679 | frightening. | 令人恐惧。 |
| 680 | And I say, you've got to stick in there and fight for the you know, you have to | 我说,你必须坚持在那里 并争取你知道的,你必须 |
| 681 | defend where we are to date, because this is this is this is really quite frightening what could | 捍卫我们至今为止的状况, 因为这是真正可怕的是什么 |
| 682 | happen. | 发生。 |
| 683 | And, you know, and if you are working more from home, how does that how does your | 而且,你知道,如果你工作 更多的在家,如何做到这一点 |
| 684 | salary then reflect the fact that you've got more bills at home? | 薪水反映你家里的账单更多吗? |
| 685 | Okay, you might not be traveling, | 好吧,你可能不会旅行, |
| 686 | but you've got more use. | 但你有更多的用处。 |
| 687 | There's a long way for this conversation to go. | 这段对话还有很长的路要走. |
| 688 | They just take it for | 他们只是把它 |
| 689 | granted that it's going to suddenly make your life better. | 让你的生活变得更美好 |
| 690 | But yeah, it's virtual mansplain | 但是,是的,这是虚拟的 人板 |
| 691 | is happening a lot. | 正在发生很多。 |
| 692 | It's really quite concerning. | 这真的很重要。 |
| 693 | Well, I'm keen to move on to make some time for | 嗯,我很想继续前进 让一些时间为 |
| 694 | audience questions. | 观众提问。 |
| 695 | Do we have any questions? | 有什么问题吗? |
| 696 | We'll start with Gracie in the in the blue at the front. | 我们先从Gracie开始 在蓝色的前面。 |
| 697 | It's been wonderful to speak because I think this is a subject I've been thinking about for a long | 说得真好,因为我觉得这个话题 我已经想了很久了 |
| 698 | time as somebody who's often described as intense for sharing my my views frequently and passionately. | 他经常被描述为 频繁和热情地分享我的观点 |
| 699 | And I think sometimes, especially when women of color, they're termed as aggressive and intense. | 我认为,有时,特别是当有色人种的女性, 她们被称为具有攻击性和强烈性。 |
| 700 | I think emotion is an important thing to take into account when you're making decisions and when | 我认为情感很重要 当你在做决定的时候 和什么时候 |
| 701 | you're sharing your opinions. | 你分享你的意见。 |
| 702 | But it's something that's demonized when women show it because it's | 但当女人展示它时,它就被妖魔化了,因为它 |
| 703 | such a feminine trait. | 如此女性特质。 |
| 704 | Do you think that emotion firstly is emotion important in decision making? | 你认为情感首先在决策中很重要吗? |
| 705 | And two, do you think it's particularly demonized for women of color? | 第二,你觉得这对有色人种女人来说特别妖魔化吗? |
| 706 | And how do we | 我们如何 |
| 707 | counter that? | 反弹? |
| 708 | And how do we take that on? | 我们怎么处理? |
| 709 | I think I think this whole idea, I've been asked this | 我觉得这整个想法 有人问我这个 |
| 710 | question about, you know, being brave and strong. | 关于勇敢和坚强的问题 |
| 711 | I worry that when we we become strong, we become | 我担心当我们变得强大,我们变得 |
| 712 | inflexible. | 不灵活。 |
| 713 | And I think it's really important. | 我觉得这很重要 |
| 714 | I try really hard throughout my career. | 我整个职业生涯都很努力 |
| 715 | I've | 我见过 |
| 716 | tried to stay soft and myself and emotional, because I think that means I'm empathetic and | 试图保持柔软 自我和情感, 因为我认为这意味着 我同情和 |
| 717 | I can understand other people. | 我能理解别人 |
| 718 | And I've really worked hard, especially again, going back to | 我真的很努力 特别是要回去 |
| 719 | working in the city. | 工作在城市里。 |
| 720 | Back in the sort of, you know, I started in the 80s and 90s. | 在80年代和90年代开始的 |
| 721 | It was about | 这是关于 |
| 722 | being strong with big shoulder pads and pinstripe suits in the city. | 在城市里用大肩垫和针刺西装坚挺 |
| 723 | And, you know, that was the | 而且,你知道,这是 |
| 724 | thing. | 东西。 |
| 725 | We had to be strong women. | 我们必须是坚强的女人。 |
| 726 | And I think that was a negative. | 我认为那是负面的。 |
| 727 | And I don't think it helps us at | 我觉得这帮不了我们 |
| 728 | all. | 都一样 |
| 729 | And I think we accept that we have different thought processes. | 我认为我们接受 我们有不同的思维过程。 |
| 730 | We have different ways of | 我们有不同的方式 |
| 731 | coming to solutions. | 来到解决方案。 |
| 732 | We might have a different prismatic path, but that doesn't mean the | 我们也许有另一条悲观的道路 但这并不意味着 |
| 733 | solutions we come to are better or worse. | 我们找到的解决办法是好是坏。 |
| 734 | They're just different the way we come to them. | 他们只是不同的方式 我们来他们。 |
| 735 | But I | 不过 |
| 736 | think it's really important that we hold on to our emotions and our empathy and our emotional | 我们一定要保持感情和同情心 |
| 737 | intelligence is one of the things I think is undervalued. | 我认为情报是被低估的东西之一。 |
| 738 | And on the race thing, what is even | 赛车的事,什么是平 |
| 739 | now surprises me is the abuse I get. | 现在让我惊讶的是 我得到的虐待。 |
| 740 | I can offend anybody, everybody. | 我可以冒犯任何人,每个人。 |
| 741 | It's really quite remarkable. | 这真的很了不起。 |
| 742 | I'll get it from men, black men or, you know, age men who go, I should shut up and know my place. | 我会从男人,黑人或者,你知道, 年龄男人谁去,我应该闭嘴,知道我的地方。 |
| 743 | I'm embarrassing my culture. | 我很尴尬我的文化。 |
| 744 | I get it from, you know, white women in the city who go, you know, | 我从城里的白人女人那里得到的 你知道, |
| 745 | you should be, you know, we're doing really well, but I'm going, yeah, but you you're actually the | 你应该,你知道,我们做的非常好, 但我要去,是的,但你实际上 |
| 746 | same. | 一样 |
| 747 | You're just like men in skirts. | 你就像穿裙子的男人一样 |
| 748 | You're the same background, same, you know, there's no social | 你们是同一个背景, 同样的,你知道,没有社交 |
| 749 | mobility. | 流动。 |
| 750 | So it's actually extraordinary. | 所以这其实是非凡的。 |
| 751 | I think you have to be mindful of the fact that people are | 我认为你必须记住,人们是 |
| 752 | it's not always the people you expect who are going to agree with you or disagree with you | 这不是你期望的人 谁同意你或不同意你 |
| 753 | and just take it one person at a time and try not to have preconceived ideas about how groups of | 试着不要有预想 |
| 754 | people are going to respond to you, because it's quite surprising where the people who agree and | 人们会回应你, 因为这是非常令人惊讶的 在人们同意和 |
| 755 | disagree can come from. | 分歧可能来自此。 |
| 756 | So, you know, walk with an open mind and be emotional. | 所以,你知道,走 一个开放的心灵和情感。 |
| 757 | But one last thing | 但还有一件事 |
| 758 | I'll say is for women, when we do get emotional, we get high pitched. | 我要说,女人, 当我们真的情绪化, 我们得到高投注。 |
| 759 | And so one of my other rules, | 因此,我的另一个规则, |
| 760 | I say is lower and slower. | 我说是更低,更慢。 |
| 761 | Always take a breath lower and slower when you're getting emotional. | 当你变得情绪化时 总是低调而慢 |
| 762 | Just take that. | 拿着 |
| 763 | And a question at the back here on the right. | 后面右边有个问题 |
| 764 | And could you stand up when you ask | 你能站起来 当你问 |
| 765 | your question so we make sure that the camera can get you? | 你的问题,让我们确保 相机可以得到你? |
| 766 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 767 | We've been talking mainly | 我们主要谈 |
| 768 | about the attitudes of men to difficult women. | 男人对困难妇女的态度。 |
| 769 | Have you experienced different sorts of abuse | 你遭受过不同的虐待吗? |
| 770 | from other women to being a difficult woman? | 从其他女人变成一个困难的女人? |
| 771 | I think, I think something we haven't said | 我想,我觉得有些事情我们没有说 |
| 772 | so far is that the most important thing that you can do for yourself and for society and for | 到目前为止,你能够做的最重要的事情 为自己,为社会,为 |
| 773 | everybody around you is be yourself. | 你身边的每个人都是你自己 |
| 774 | And that is what I have been all my life. | 这就是我的一生。 |
| 775 | I have been a | 我是一个 |
| 776 | politician to a degree as well. | 政治人物也达到了一定的水准. |
| 777 | I inadvertently got elected to Kensington Council once because I | 我无意中入选过肯辛顿议会 因为我 |
| 778 | thought it would be fun to stand for a council. | 以为代表议会会很有趣 |
| 779 | I was, at the time, a member of the Labour Party, | 当时我是工党党员 |
| 780 | and I went to a selection meeting and they said, it's all right, you won't get chosen, | 我去了一次选拔会议 他们说 没关系 你不会被选中的 |
| 781 | so don't worry about it. | 所以不要担心。 |
| 782 | And they chose me. | 他们选择了我。 |
| 783 | And I said, I don't want to be a councillor, | 我说,我不想当议员 |
| 784 | I just thought it would be fun to go along with the process. | 我只是觉得加入这个过程会很有趣 |
| 785 | And I was elected. | 我当选了 |
| 786 | But what they said | 但他们说的 |
| 787 | was because I have a facility for sounding like an ordinary member of the human race and I don't | 因为我有一个设施 听起来像 一个普通的人类成员 我没有 |
| 788 | talk in riddles, I talk straightforwardly and I believe in what I'm saying. | 用谜语说话,我直截了当地说话,我相信我在说什么。 |
| 789 | And I think that is | 我认为 |
| 790 | what we should all do and what we should teach our sons and daughters to do. | 我们都应该做什么,我们应该教我们的儿女做什么。 |
| 791 | Our sons in particular, | 尤其是我们的儿子们 |
| 792 | I'm very proud of my son who wears a t-shirt which says, women, you can't beat them. | 我为我的儿子感到骄傲 她穿着一件T恤 上面写着,女人,你不能打败她们 |
| 793 | Well, he means it in the right way, I assure you. | 嗯,他的意思是正确的方式, 我向你保证。 |
| 794 | And so that's my answer. | 这就是我的答案。 |
| 795 | And no, I don't have trouble with difficult women. | 不,我和困难的女人没有麻烦 |
| 796 | I tend not to notice. | 我总是不注意 |
| 797 | I can remember once being on a radio program and my mother rang up as once, | 我还记得有一次在电台节目上 我母亲打电话一次 |
| 798 | mothers do. | 妈妈会的 |
| 799 | And she said, I thought you handled all those men really well, darling. | 她说,我以为你 处理所有的人 真的很好,亲爱的。 |
| 800 | And I didn't notice I was the only woman there. | 我没有注意到我是那里唯一的女人 |
| 801 | But so just be yourself and say what you think | 但是,只是做你自己 并说出你的想法 |
| 802 | and teach your sons to do the same and your daughters. | 并教诸子亦复如是及诸女. |
| 803 | We'll have a question from Lily in the purple mask here and then from Chiang Kai and then on the end. | 紫色面具里的莉莉问了个问题 然后蒋介石问,最后再问 |
| 804 | I just wanted to ask a question about being liked at work because I understand, obviously, | 我只是想问一个问题 关于喜欢在工作 因为我明白,显然, |
| 805 | it's not a popularity contest, but if you're liked, you will do better in the workplace, | 这不是一个受欢迎的比赛, 但如果你喜欢,你会做得更好 在工作场所, |
| 806 | I think. | 我觉得 |
| 807 | I mean, maybe. | 我的意思是,也许。 |
| 808 | And I also think that there's more of an expectation that a woman | 我也认为人们更期待一个女人 |
| 809 | has to be likable. | 必须是可爱的。 |
| 810 | A man doesn't have to be likable in the same way in the workplace. | 在工作场所,男人不必以同样的方式讨人喜欢。 |
| 811 | What do you think about that? | 你觉得怎么样? |
| 812 | Well, I had a rather odd career. | 嗯,我有一个相当奇怪的职业生涯。 |
| 813 | I mean, | 我是说... |
| 814 | New College Oxford was mostly men. | 新学院牛津大学大部分是男性. |
| 815 | And then I went to the FT. | 然后我去了FT。 |
| 816 | I was the first female graduate trainee. | 我是第一位女毕业生学员。 |
| 817 | I didn't actually have a woman boss until I left the FT and I went to the BBC. | 我其实没有一个女人老板 直到我离开FT,我去了BBC。 |
| 818 | And I therefore, I think operated as a, it was very different going into a workplace where you | 因此,我认为操作作为一个, 这是非常不同的 进入一个工作场所,你 |
| 819 | are the only female. | 这是唯一的女性。 |
| 820 | It really is. | 没错 |
| 821 | And I'm sure you've had a bit of that yourself. | 我敢肯定,你已经 一点点自己。 |
| 822 | You feel much | 你感觉很好 |
| 823 | more exposed. | 更加暴露。 |
| 824 | I remember somebody taking me aside and saying, we don't wear leggings to the FT. | 我记得有人带我到一旁说 我们不穿脚跟对FT。 |
| 825 | And actually that was quite a good tip. | 实际上,这是一个很好的提示。 |
| 826 | So then I started wearing the next power suits. | 于是我开始穿下一套动力服. |
| 827 | But when | 但何时 |
| 828 | I'd had my first child, I came back to work and I was taken aside and said, could you go on a tour | 我生了第一个孩子,我回来上班 被带走说,你能去旅游吗? |
| 829 | of the marginal constituencies? | 边际选区? |
| 830 | And I said, but my baby's three months old and I'm breastfeeding. | 我说,但我的孩子 三个月大,我在哺乳。 |
| 831 | And they said, are you rooting yourself out for these sorts of assignments? | 他们说,你是为了完成这些任务吗? |
| 832 | So my sex, my gender | 所以我的性,我的性别 |
| 833 | was extremely front of mind in my mind. | 在我的脑海中是极前的 |
| 834 | I don't know if it was necessarily front of mind in their | 我不知道这是否在他们心里 |
| 835 | mind, but I tried to behave like one of the lads as well. | 介意,但我试着表现得像个小伙子 |
| 836 | It was, I mean, I don't know what I'm | 我的意思是,我不知道我是谁 |
| 837 | really saying, but I think each single workplace is very different. | 真的说, 但我认为每个工作场所 都非常不同。 |
| 838 | I mean, you were in the city | 我是说,你在城里 |
| 839 | and they had a huge amount of sexism. | 他们有巨大的性别歧视。 |
| 840 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 841 | I mean, it's still there. | 我的意思是,它还在那里。 |
| 842 | But the question wasn't | 但问题不是 |
| 843 | sexism. | 性别歧视。 |
| 844 | It was likeability. | 这是像的。 |
| 845 | It's about being liked and then sort of, and I think- I wanted to be | 是关于被喜欢,然后有点, 我想,我想 |
| 846 | liked, but I mean, I was doing things that were going to put me at odds with my employer, i.e. | 喜欢,但我的意思是,我所做的事情 使我与我的雇主,即。 |
| 847 | having a maternity leave, having, you know, not being able to go on a regional tour, having | 休产假,不能进行区域旅游, |
| 848 | other maternity leave. | 其他产假。 |
| 849 | These are all things that means you're not really liked. | 这些都是所有的东西 意味着你不是真的喜欢。 |
| 850 | In fact, | 事实上, |
| 851 | employers only probably had you because they thought they had to have a woman. | 雇主可能是因为他们觉得必须有个女人 |
| 852 | I think slightly differently. | 我觉得有点不同 |
| 853 | I think you should be yourself. | 我觉得你应该做你自己。 |
| 854 | You don't have to go out of your way, | 你不必离开你的方式, |
| 855 | you know, this idea that we all put on a slightly different persona. | 你知道,这个想法,我们都 让一个稍微不同的人a。 |
| 856 | You can do it when we're | 等我们来了,你就可以了 |
| 857 | answering the work phone. | 接电话 |
| 858 | You know, we're at work with a different persona, but trying to be as | 你知道,我们正在工作 一个不同的人,但试图成为 |
| 859 | honest and as true a person as to yourself is a lot less hard work, if you like, and, you know, | 诚实而真实的一个人 对自己来说是 少得多的辛勤工作, 如果你喜欢,你知道, |
| 860 | less exhausting than trying to be somebody else. | 比成为别人更累 |
| 861 | But it's not about not being liked. | 但这不是不被喜欢。 |
| 862 | I think it's | 我觉得 |
| 863 | when they, for example, say that, you know, if you go in as a young woman, you know, you're expected | 比如说,当他们说,你知道, 如果你作为一个年轻女人, 你知道,你期待 |
| 864 | to make the coffee, whereas the young man coming in is suddenly not asked to make the coffee. | 来煮咖啡的年轻人 却突然不叫他们煮咖啡 |
| 865 | Oh, it still happens now. | 哦,现在还是这样 |
| 866 | It still happens now. | 现在还是这样 |
| 867 | Absolutely it does. | 当然 |
| 868 | It does. | 没错 |
| 869 | It does all the time. | 总是这样 |
| 870 | It's quite extraordinary. | 这是相当不寻常的。 |
| 871 | So you say no. | 所以你说不。 |
| 872 | No, no, no, I'm just saying, but those sorts of things. | 不,不,不,我只是说, 但这些事情。 |
| 873 | It's not about saying, no, I'm not going to say, you know, you say, well, I've done it yesterday. | 这不是要说,不,我不会说, 你知道,你说,好了,我昨天做了。 |
| 874 | What about asking him today? | 今天问他怎么样? |
| 875 | You know, there are ways of doing it, but you don't have to be | 你知道,有办法做到这一点, 但你不必是 |
| 876 | aggressive. | 攻击性 |
| 877 | I think you do need to speak up, but you don't. | 我想你确实需要说出来, 但你没有。 |
| 878 | It's about the tone you adopt, | 这是关于你的语气, |
| 879 | and I think it's about fairness and promoting yourself. | 我认为这是关于公平 和提升自己。 |
| 880 | I mean, I'll give you another example. | 我的意思是,我会给你 另一个例子。 |
| 881 | I was asked to, by one law firm, they run an in-house magazine and a network, female network, | 我被一家律师事务所请来 他们经营一家内部杂志 和一家网络 女性网络 |
| 882 | and the young woman, she's sort of in her mid-30s, was asked to come and interview me. | 那个年轻女子 30多岁时 被要求来采访我 |
| 883 | And the day before, the men in the office said, oh, I can't believe you're going to go and interview | 前一天,办公室的人说, 哦,我不敢相信你会去采访 |
| 884 | Gina Miller tomorrow. | 明天吉娜・米勒。 |
| 885 | I hope you've had your hair done. | 我希望你已经做了你的头发。 |
| 886 | Are you going to wear a nice dress? | 你要穿件漂亮的裙子吗? |
| 887 | And she told me this. | 她告诉我的 |
| 888 | And I said, why on earth would they say that to you? | 我说,他们为什么要对你这么说? |
| 889 | And I said, it's just ridiculous. | 我说,这太荒谬了。 |
| 890 | And I said, and she didn't do it. | 我说,她没有这样做。 |
| 891 | And I said, I'm so pleased you | 我说,我很高兴你 |
| 892 | didn't listen to them. | 没有听他们的。 |
| 893 | And she said, yes, but I nearly did. | 她说,是的,但我几乎做到了。 |
| 894 | That's why I'm mentioning it to you, | 所以我才告诉你 |
| 895 | because she, it was that expectation that she had to be nice. | 因为她,那是期望 她必须是好人。 |
| 896 | She had to look a certain way. | 她必须看某条路。 |
| 897 | I've got somebody, there's a big company in the city, a rating agency, and somebody who's | 我找到人了 市里有个大公司 一个评级机构 |
| 898 | just been made head of research there. | 刚刚成为研究的主管 |
| 899 | She has been told recently that when we go back to doing | 她最近被告知,当我们回去做 |
| 900 | events like this and conferences, you know, the women, they put out a note that the women have to | 像这样的事件和会议, 你知道,妇女, 他们做了一个说明,妇女必须 |
| 901 | wear dresses on stage. | 在舞台上穿着裙子。 |
| 902 | And I've said, I can't believe we're in 2021. | 我说,我不能相信 我们在2021年。 |
| 903 | And they're saying the | 他们说 |
| 904 | women in a conference stage have to wear a dress. | 妇女在会议舞台上必须穿裙子。 |
| 905 | And I said to her, I hope you just. | 我告诉她,我希望你只是。 |
| 906 | I would tell her where to get it. | 我会告诉她在哪里得到它。 |
| 907 | Which is what she's done. | 她就是这么做的 |
| 908 | But it's, I mean, the problem is. | 但问题是... |
| 909 | I was sent home for wearing trousers on the Sunday Express in the 1960s. | 1960年代我因穿着周日快车的裤子而被送回家. |
| 910 | But these are microaggressions. | 但这些是微观侵略。 |
| 911 | But that was the 1960s. | 但那是20世纪60年代 |
| 912 | They're microaggressions and they're still there and you have to call them out. | 他们是微观侵略,他们仍然在那里,你必须叫他们出来。 |
| 913 | But you | 不过你 |
| 914 | don't have to be aggressive in the way you do it. | 不必用攻击的方式 |
| 915 | And that's what I think I'm saying is that | 我想说的是 |
| 916 | it's a tone. | 这是一个语气。 |
| 917 | I think being polite and being civil is a way to be and be yourself. | 我认为礼貌和文明是成为和成为自己的一种方式. |
| 918 | But that | 不过 |
| 919 | doesn't mean you have to take the shit, basically. | 基本上,这不代表你必须接受 |
| 920 | I did have a problem. | 我确实有一个问题。 |
| 921 | The one problem I had at work was in turn was when I was made political | 我工作时遇到的一个问题 就是当我成为政治人物时 |
| 922 | editor of the Daily Mirror. | "每日镜报"编辑. |
| 923 | Two male men, members of my staff left the staff because | 两名男性,我的工作人员离开工作人员,因为 |
| 924 | they weren't prepared to work for a woman. | 他们没准备好为女人工作 |
| 925 | Well, good luck to them. | 祝他们好运 |
| 926 | Yeah, good. | 是啊,不错。 |
| 927 | But yeah, for real. | 不过真的 |
| 928 | Oh, you didn't want them there. | 哦,你不希望他们在那里。 |
| 929 | They'd have been a pain. | 他们会很痛苦的 |
| 930 | No, no. | 没有,没有。 |
| 931 | It was very much to my advantage in both cases. | 这对我在这两种情况下都有好处。 |
| 932 | So I was delighted. | 所以我很高兴。 |
| 933 | Well, actually, I can top that. | 嗯,实际上,我可以顶级。 |
| 934 | When I was 10, I was sent to an all boys prep school. | 10岁时,我被送到一个所有男生预备学校. |
| 935 | And the headmaster was called Billy Williamson. | 而校长名叫比利·威廉森. |
| 936 | And he refused to teach me. | 他拒绝教我 |
| 937 | And he refused to | 他拒绝 |
| 938 | teach any class I was in either. | 教任何我上过的课 |
| 939 | There you go. | 给你。 |
| 940 | That's a badge of honour. | 那是荣誉的徽章 |
| 941 | But I did win him around, I have to admit. | 但我确实赢得了他, 我必须承认。 |
| 942 | But this is a slightly self-serving anecdote. | 但这只是个略为自私的传闻 |
| 943 | I think we have time for one or two last questions. | 我想我们还有时间问一两个问题 |
| 944 | So we'll go to the | 所以我们去 |
| 945 | Chiang Kai was next. | 蒋介石是下一个 |
| 946 | And then I think the lady in the flowering mask on the right. | 然后我想右边那个戴着花脸的女士 |
| 947 | First, thank you for all three of you coming down in person to share with us your experiences and | 首先,感谢你们三人亲自前来 与我们分享你们的经验 |
| 948 | your insights. | 你的见解。 |
| 949 | And I think there's one really interesting observation I want to share with | 我想有一个非常有趣的观察 我想分享 |
| 950 | panel is most of the audience here are women. | 大部分观众都是女性。 |
| 951 | That's quite unusual for Oxford Uni event. | 这对牛津大学的活动来说是很不寻常的。 |
| 952 | There's either very gender balance or at a debate, you've got more male dominated | 要么是两性平衡 要么是辩论时 男性占多数 |
| 953 | attendance. | 出席情况。 |
| 954 | So I wonder what does a panel have any thoughts on this? | 所以我想知道小组对此有什么想法? |
| 955 | Is that the reason people ended up being called difficult women is not many men are listening to | 这就是人们最终被称作困难女人的原因吗 并不是很多男人在听 |
| 956 | them. | 他们。 |
| 957 | I'll take my question. | 我问个问题 |
| 958 | When I first heard the event, difficult women, it reminded me of | 当我第一次听到这个事件, 困难的女人, 它让我想起 |
| 959 | when David Cameron was asked the question, whether he'd call himself a feminist, | 当大卫·卡梅伦被问到, 他是否自称女权主义者, |
| 960 | he dodged the question. | 他回避了这个问题。 |
| 961 | And in that context, and feminists being used as a label, which is very | 在这种情况下,女权主义者被用作标签,这非常 |
| 962 | similar to difficult women. | 和困难的女人一样 |
| 963 | What's the panelist's understanding of being a feminist? | 女权主义者对女权主义的理解是什么?. |
| 964 | And do you | 还有你 |
| 965 | think being called a feminist undermine the women's movement, as some people on the cultural debate | 认为被称为女权主义者会破坏妇女运动, |
| 966 | would dismiss the feminist as being vogue? | 会不会把女权主义者当做流浪汉? |
| 967 | Woke. | 醒来。 |
| 968 | Oh, where do we start? | 我们从哪里开始? |
| 969 | I want to know where the difficult men are who didn't come to the meeting | 我想知道那些不来开会的 困难的人在哪里 |
| 970 | tonight in order to confront the difficult women. | 今晚是为了面对困难的女人 |
| 971 | I mean, I mean, thank you. | 我的意思是,我的意思是,谢谢你。 |
| 972 | How do we define | 我们如何定义 |
| 973 | feminists? | 女权主义者? |
| 974 | When there's an organization now called women in journalism, when it first came into being, | 当有一个组织,现在叫 新闻界的妇女, 当它诞生之初, |
| 975 | it was called women in media. | 这在媒体中被称为女性。 |
| 976 | And I went to my first meeting of women in media leaving | 我参加了我第一次在媒体上的妇女会议 |
| 977 | my then husband at home and came home to discover he while I'd been out, he'd had a | 我当时的丈夫在家,回家发现他 当我出去,他有一个 |
| 978 | man friend round and formed an organization called men in media, which was thoroughly redundant. | 男人朋友在媒体里组建了一个叫男人的组织,这完全是多余的。 |
| 979 | But but he was a feminist. | 但他是个女权主义者 |
| 980 | It speaks for itself, doesn't it? | 这很说明问题,不是吗? |
| 981 | I mean, if you you live the life, you prove that you | 我是说,如果你活着,你就证明你 |
| 982 | can do the job, you prove that you're as capable as the man you you show that | 证明你和你所表现的人一样有能力 |
| 983 | that feminism works. | 那女权主义是有效的。 |
| 984 | And no, no danger at all about being woke. | 不,没有危险 被唤醒。 |
| 985 | What's woke about that? | 唤醒了什么? |
| 986 | I mean, I remember women in journalism, because I did, I said, I mean, I remember when I went home, | 我的意思是,我记得女人 在新闻界, 因为我做到了, 我说,我是说,我记得 当我回家, |
| 987 | my husband said, Oh, have you done an event for winch? | 我丈夫说,哦,你做了一个活动 绞盘? |
| 988 | WIJ吗? | |
| 989 | That was that was what it's still | 这就是它仍然 |
| 990 | called winch. | 叫做绞盘。 |
| 991 | I think that | 我觉得 |
| 992 | I think there was an attempt to mainly by men to attach a derogatory label to the word feminism, | 我认为有人试图把贬义的标签 附加在女性主义这个词上, |
| 993 | which is essentially only means that women should be entitled to the same opportunities, | 这基本上只意味着妇女应享有同样的机会; |
| 994 | education, and pay, and so on that men are it's not asking for anything more, it's just asking for | 教育,报酬,等等 男人是 它不是要求更多的, 它只是要求 |
| 995 | the same. | 一样 |
| 996 | And to wait to be made to feel like you're a screeching harridan. | 且待造化,以觉自在,自谓斯re哈里丹. |
| 997 | When you ask for | 当你要求 |
| 998 | those things is a very clever trick that the patriarchy and I use I still use that word | 那些东西是个非常聪明的把戏 父权制我还是用这个词 |
| 999 | because it essentially means that men have most of the power and most of the money and they use | 因为基本上意味着男人拥有大部分权力 和大部分的钱 他们使用 |
| 1000 | it to maintain that system to their advantage. | 以维持这个系统 对他们有利。 |
| 1001 | Because nobody likes to yield the citadel power | 因为没有人喜欢让城堡拥有权力 |
| 1002 | to the in the marauding hordes, the monstrous regiment of women who came to Oxford. | 来到牛津的邪恶女子团 |
| 1003 | Remember, | 记住 |
| 1004 | that's what we were called when we entered this university, the monstrous regiment. | 这就是当我们进入这所大学时 被称作邪恶的团 |
| 1005 | It's you know, | 你知道吗? |
| 1006 | our encroachment on their sacred territories and entitlements is never going to be easy. | 我们侵犯他们的神圣领土和权利绝非易事。 |
| 1007 | So you | 这么说你 |
| 1008 | will be called a feminist and people won't like it. | 将被称为女权主义者 人们不会喜欢它。 |
| 1009 | But I'm proud feminist. | 但我骄傲的女权主义者。 |
| 1010 | I hope my husband's a | 我希望我的丈夫是一个 |
| 1011 | proud feminist. | 骄傲的女权主义者。 |
| 1012 | I brought my boys up to be feminists. | 我带我的孩子们去当女权主义者 |
| 1013 | And I'm very happy to be with two | 我很高兴和两个在一起 |
| 1014 | great feminists tonight and very difficult women, I might add. | 今晚是伟大的女权主义者 也是非常困难的女人 |
| 1015 | Good question. | 问得好 |
| 1016 | No, it's a very good | 不,这是非常好的 |
| 1017 | question. | 问题。 |
| 1018 | I think I'm just very short but I'd add on to that is that be careful. | 我想我只是很短 但我还要补充一点 小心点 |
| 1019 | I mean, language | 我的意思是,语言 |
| 1020 | is a powerful weapon. | 是一个强大的武器。 |
| 1021 | And it is weaponized very often. | 而且它经常被武器化。 |
| 1022 | And I think the word feminist has been | 我觉得女权主义者这个词 |
| 1023 | weaponized now for four decades. | 现在武器化了40年 |
| 1024 | You know, I remember having a conversation with you won't | 你知道,我记得有一个谈话 与你不会 |
| 1025 | remember but body shop was owned by the incredible Anita Roddick. | 记住,但身体店是属于 不可思议的安妮塔・罗德迪克。 |
| 1026 | And having conversation with her | 和她交谈 |
| 1027 | about being a businesswoman trying to do things differently at the time we were talking about | 说到当一个女商人 试图做不同的事情 在我们谈论的时候 |
| 1028 | responsible capitalism all the way back in the 90s. | 负责的资本主义 早在90年代 |
| 1029 | And now it's called ESG. | 现在叫做ESG |
| 1030 | It's suddenly become | 突然间 |
| 1031 | popular. | 大众. |
| 1032 | We were talking about it a long time ago. | 我们很早就谈过了 |
| 1033 | And we were seen as not just difficult women. | 我们不仅被视为困难的女人。 |
| 1034 | Then we were seen as pathetic women because we were talking about mama and papa type businesses | 后来我们被看成是可悲的女人 因为我们在谈论爸爸妈妈的生意 |
| 1035 | that nobody take it seriously, that we weren't aggressive enough, funny enough, rather than | 没有人认真对待它, 我们不够积极, 搞笑的,而不是 |
| 1036 | being too aggressive. | 太冲动了 |
| 1037 | We didn't understand the business was about being aggressive. | 我们不理解这生意是用来攻击的 |
| 1038 | And language, | 还有语言 |
| 1039 | a lot of language was used against us at that time when we were talking. | 那时我们说话的时候,有很多语言被用来反对我们。 |
| 1040 | And the whole idea of | 整个想法 |
| 1041 | being feminist and who would want female only products and who you know, it was it's a way | 做女权主义者,谁只想要女性产品, 谁你知道,这是一个方法 |
| 1042 | language is appropriated. | 语文为批款。 |
| 1043 | And I think we need to just move beyond it. | 我认为我们必须超越它。 |
| 1044 | And I'd say the day we're | 我会说,我们的一天 |
| 1045 | not walking around as a me as a woman of color, I'm not walking around with two tags weighing down | 我不是像一个有色人种一样到处走 我不是带着两个牌子到处走 |
| 1046 | my legs. | 我的脚。 |
| 1047 | One is the fact that I'm a woman and the other is a woman of color, then I don't have to | 一个是,我是一个女人,另一个是 一个有色人种,然后我不必 |
| 1048 | think about language. | 想想语言 |
| 1049 | But right now, I need language will allow me to point to the fact that | 但现在,我需要语言 让我指出一个事实: |
| 1050 | walk around every day with two weights around my ankle. | 每天走来走去 脚踝上有两个重物 |
| 1051 | And for our final question, the lady in the | 最后一个问题就是... |
| 1052 | flowery mask on the. | 戴着花色面具 |
| 1053 | Thank you so much for everything that we've been talking about tonight. | 非常感谢今晚我们讨论的一切 |
| 1054 | I find it | 我发现 |
| 1055 | very interesting. | 非常有趣,你觉得呢? |
| 1056 | I would just really like to ask a question about a comment made that doesn't happen | 我只想问一个问题 关于一个没有发生的评论 |
| 1057 | anymore. | 现在。 |
| 1058 | In regards of making coffee and things like that. | 在咖啡和类似的东西。 |
| 1059 | So I feel very comfortable calling out | 所以我觉得很舒服 喊出来 |
| 1060 | for being misogynistic. | 因为厌恶女性 |
| 1061 | I feel perfectly within my rights. | 我觉得我的权利是完美的。 |
| 1062 | A problem I face is when women discount | 我面临的一个问题就是女人打折 |
| 1063 | other women's experiences because they don't match their own. | 其他女人的经历 因为她们和自己的不匹配 |
| 1064 | I was wondering if you had any advice | 我想知道你有什么建议 |
| 1065 | with how you would negotiate that given that the dynamics are very different. | 既然动态大不相同 你如何谈判? |
| 1066 | Oh, where to start? | 哦,从哪里开始? |
| 1067 | Journalism is a fortunate trade to have been in because actually | 新闻业是个幸运的交易 因为事实上 |
| 1068 | my experience even from 50 years ago was that women were treated the same and paid the same | 我从50年前就经历过 女人受到同样的待遇和报酬 |
| 1069 | and and we all made the coffee. | 我们一起煮咖啡 |
| 1070 | I have always ignored sexual abuse and that was around a great | 我总是忽视性虐待, 和周围一个伟大的 |
| 1071 | deal. | 说定了 |
| 1072 | And I'm sure it is. | 我敢肯定,这是。 |
| 1073 | I know it is still good cough. | 我知道咳嗽还不错 |
| 1074 | Sorry. | 对不起 |
| 1075 | I went to I went to a reunion of my | 我去参加我的聚会 |
| 1076 | newspaper about five years ago and somebody told me that there was an elderly sub editor | 大约五年前的报纸 有人告诉我有个老编辑 |
| 1077 | who I didn't get on with and who had said to all the men on we were we were we were all underpaid | 我和他们没有相处,谁告诉所有的人,我们是 我们都是低薪的 |
| 1078 | but then we were all equally underpaid. | 但后来我们都一样低薪。 |
| 1079 | The men and women were all equally underpaid and the | 男人和女人都一样报酬过低 |
| 1080 | 报纸是Portsmoutheb新闻。 | |
| 1081 | We had a circulation then which is the size of | 我们有一个循环,然后是大小 |
| 1082 | practically the daily mirror today. | 几乎是今天的每日镜子。 |
| 1083 | I mean it was over a hundred thousand every day. | 我的意思是,它是超过10万 每天。 |
| 1084 | But this and there were there were a lot of men and women trainees and we did all the work. | 但是,这里有很多男女学员,我们做了所有的工作。 |
| 1085 | This sub had said to one of one of our men our men colleagues when when somebody going to get | 这艘潜水艇曾对我们的一位手下说 我们的手下同事 |
| 1086 | that woman pregnant so that get her off our backs. | 那女人怀孕了 让她远离我们 |
| 1087 | I had no idea of that and I was absolutely | 我不知道,我绝对知道 |
| 1088 | delighted to hear about this but I wished I'd known about it at the time because I would have | 很高兴听到这个消息 但我当时希望我知道,因为我会 |
| 1089 | gone and said something to him. | 和他说了些什么。 |
| 1090 | What would you have said? | 你会说什么? |
| 1091 | I would have said I hear you've been | 我会说,我听说你已经 |
| 1092 | saying this and and and would you like to come with me and say it to the editor. | 你愿意跟我来,对编辑说 |
| 1093 | But let's | 但让我们 |
| 1094 | don't forget that for many years I mean companies and employers don't even want to hire women of | 不要忘记,多年来,我的意思是公司和雇主 甚至不想雇用女性 |
| 1095 | childbearing age because you know they know that they're going to have to pay their mortality | 生育年龄,因为你知道 他们必须支付他们的死亡率 |
| 1096 | It didn't happen in newspapers in my experience. | 在我的经验里,这并没有在报纸上发生. |
| 1097 | Really? | 真的吗? |
| 1098 | Yeah no I'm not in political journalism | 是啊,不,我不是在政治新闻界 |
| 1099 | really but I did I had my children extremely late I have to say. | 真的,但我有 我有我的孩子 非常晚,我不得不说。 |
| 1100 | I covered the Sarah Everard murder | 我掩盖了莎拉·埃佛拉德谋杀案 |
| 1101 | for a few hours obviously in the radio and what I found actually was the commonality of the | 几个小时前在电台里 我发现的其实是 |
| 1102 | experience of female experience and I mean I could have taken a million calls on women | 我本可以给女人打上百万次电话 |
| 1103 | saying this happened to me in the street this happened when I was this and when and I had my | 说这发生在我街上 当我是,当我有我的 |
| 1104 | own stories as well but I wanted to hear from from the listeners and the callers. | 也有自己的故事 但我想听听听众和打电话者的声音 |
| 1105 | I feel that | 我觉得 |
| 1106 | there are moments when women really do I mean that was an extraordinary me too moment about | 有些时候,女人真的做,我的意思是,那是 一个非凡的我太一瞬间 |
| 1107 | violence and not not domestic violence but street violence the lived experience of girl what was this | 而不是家庭暴力 而是街头暴力 女孩的亲身经历 |
| 1108 | girls as well as women and I remember and I remember maybe remember I told my own | 女孩和女人,我记得,我记得,也许我记得,我告诉我自己 |
| 1109 | daughter when she was 14 and going to day school in Hammersmith on her own for the first time | 女儿14岁时 第一次在汉默史密斯上学 |
| 1110 | you know feel coming back walk in the middle of the road hold your keys you know all these things | 你知道回来的感觉 走在路中间 拿着你的钥匙 你知道所有这些事情 |
| 1111 | that my mother had told me and so there are also very bonding experiences as well as ones which | 我妈妈告诉我的,所以也有很亲切的经历 以及那些 |
| 1112 | divide and that was one of them and it happened to be a great tragedy as well. | 这是其中之一 恰巧也是一个巨大的悲剧 |
| 1113 | Can I say something | 我能说句话吗? |
| 1114 | on this that I think we can't expect all women to it's just like you can't expect any group of | 我觉得我们不能期望所有的女人都这样 就像你无法期望任何群体 |
| 1115 | people to all be exactly the same and to have had the same experiences but I'd also caution and say | 所有人都是完全相同的人 也有同样的经历 但我也要提醒大家 |
| 1116 | that I'm coming across a lot of women who haven't quite come to terms with themselves | 我遇到很多女人 还没有完全适应自己 |
| 1117 | the fact that they have men got may have gone through these experiences and either shut them | 他们有男人 可能经历过这些经历 要么关上他们 |
| 1118 | out or haven't dealt with the emotional you know impact of what they may have experienced so what | 或还没有处理的情绪 你知道的影响 他们可能经历过什么 |
| 1119 | they do is they react by shutting it out and I think we just need to be kind to each other that | 他们的反应是,他们关闭它 我认为我们只需要对彼此友善 |
| 1120 | there is a realization that through generations women may have been experiencing these | 人们认识到,几代人中妇女可能经历了这些苦难。 |
| 1121 | aggressions and they haven't really been able to talk about them they've buried them and that's | 侵略和他们还没有真正 能够谈论他们 他们埋葬了他们,这就是 |
| 1122 | about them as well but but but it's a thing and and oh we've been told to expect them I I went | 和他们一样,但这是一件事 和哦,我们被告知期待他们 我去了 |
| 1123 | through I mean I didn't finish my law degree I actually don't work in law I didn't finish | 通过我意思是,我没有完成我的法律学位 我实际上不工作 在法律,我没有完成 |
| 1124 | because I was attacked by a group of men at university and at that time we couldn't talk | 因为我在大学时被一群人袭击 那时我们无法交谈 |
| 1125 | about it because nobody believed you it was something that I was told not only would I be | 因为没人相信你 这件事我不仅被告知 |
| 1126 | believed but it I must have done something you know it's all those sorts of things and so we | 相信,但我一定做了一些事情 你知道这是所有的东西,所以我们 |
| 1127 | have to understand that people go through different stages a bit of different stages of mourning people | 必须明白人们经历不同阶段 不同的哀悼阶段 |
| 1128 | go through different stages of coming to terms with their own experiences and have different | 经历不同的阶段 接受自己的经历 并有不同的 |
| 1129 | reactions to them so I think it's sort of you being the bigger person and moving on to find | 对他们的反应,所以我认为 有点你是一个更大的人 并继续寻找 |
| 1130 | somebody else who may be able to be who is in the same place as you and then forming that sisterhood | 其他人,谁可能 能够与你在同一位置 然后形成姐妹情谊 |
| 1131 | and being there that when the other person is maybe ready to come and join you they will do | 在那里 当另一个人 可能准备好 来加入你,他们会做 |
| 1132 | but it's forming a place where people can come and seek help and succor and kindness and I'd say | 但它正在形成一个地方 人们可以来 寻求帮助和帮助 和仁慈,我会说 |
| 1133 | start don't expect everyone to come at once but create the homes where they can come and find you | 别指望大家会马上来 但创造出他们能找到你的家园 |
| 1134 | if that makes sense. | 如果这有道理。 |
| 1135 | Well on that note we do unfortunately have to finish but it's a good | 顺便说一句,我们很不幸得完成 但这是件好事 |
| 1136 | note to end. | 注释结束。 |
| 1137 | Gina, Julia and Rachel thank you so much for joining us this evening thank you all | 吉娜,朱莉娅和瑞秋 非常感谢你们今晚能来 |
| 1138 | for joining us as well do make sure to come again tomorrow to see Somasara the founder of | 明天再来见索马萨拉的创始人 |
| 1139 | Invited and have a lovely evening thank you. | 请客 祝你晚上愉快 谢谢 |
| 1140 | And have a lovely evening thank you. | 祝你晚上愉快 谢谢 |
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