【牛津辩论】丘吉尔是一个英雄？

【牛津辩论】丘吉尔是一个英雄？

发布于 2026-03-25 · 时长 1:20:47

字幕摘录

时间	英文	中文
0:28	Amazing.	厉害
0:29	Without further ado, Adnan.	别再说了,阿德南
0:32	Madam President, ladies and gentlemen of the House, good evening.	总统女士 女士们先生们 晚上好
0:35	And to our opposition, good luck.	对我们的反对, 祝你好运。
0:39	In 1940, Britain stood at the edge of annihilation.	1940年,英国站在毁灭的边缘.
0:42	France had fallen, Europe trembled under the fist of Hitler,	法国沦陷了 欧洲在希特勒的拳头下颤抖
0:46	and the world seemed poised to surrender to tyranny.	世界似乎准备屈服于暴政
0:49	And in that moment, Winston Churchill did something remarkable.	在那一刻,温斯顿·丘吉尔做了一件了不起的事。
0:53	He stood firm, and he spoke not in whispers of caution,	他站稳了,他没有隐讳地说话,
0:57	but in words that roared across the nation.	却用遍及全国的言语

展开字幕全文（2133 条）

序号	英文	中文
1	Amazing.	厉害
2	Without further ado, Adnan.	别再说了,阿德南
3	Madam President, ladies and gentlemen of the House, good evening.	总统女士 女士们先生们 晚上好
4	And to our opposition, good luck.	对我们的反对, 祝你好运。
5	In 1940, Britain stood at the edge of annihilation.	1940年,英国站在毁灭的边缘.
6	France had fallen, Europe trembled under the fist of Hitler,	法国沦陷了 欧洲在希特勒的拳头下颤抖
7	and the world seemed poised to surrender to tyranny.	世界似乎准备屈服于暴政
8	And in that moment, Winston Churchill did something remarkable.	在那一刻,温斯顿·丘吉尔做了一件了不起的事。
9	He stood firm, and he spoke not in whispers of caution,	他站稳了,他没有隐讳地说话,
10	but in words that roared across the nation.	却用遍及全国的言语
11	Words that inspired courage, defied fear,	这些话激发了勇气和恐惧
12	and galvanised people to resist when resistance seemed impossible.	在抵抗似乎不可能的时候,他们使人民奋起反抗。
13	To lead in calm times is easy.	在平静时期领导是很容易的。
14	To lead when the skies are filled with smoke	当天空充满了烟雾时,
15	and bombs rain down upon your city, that is the measure of a hero.	炸弹落在你的城市里 这是英雄的衡量标准
16	Tonight's motion is so preposterous	今晚的动议太荒谬了
17	that it causes opposition speakers to drop out.	导致反对派发言人退学。
18	We are here today to debate a straightforward question of history.	我们今天在这里辩论一个直接的历史问题。
19	Was Winston Churchill a hero?	温斯顿·丘吉尔是英雄吗?
20	My answer is unequivocally yes.	我的回答是肯定的。
21	And I'll show you why, not by glorifying a man blindly,	我会告诉你为什么,不是盲目的赞美一个人,
22	but by examining what true heroism requires	但通过审查真正的英雄主义需要什么
23	and how Churchill embodied it when it mattered most.	和丘吉尔如何体现它 当它最重要的。
24	But firstly, it's my privilege to introduce some of the speakers.	但首先,我荣幸地介绍一些发言者。
25	I was hoping to go against my dear friend, Lisa Barkova,	我想和我亲爱的朋友丽莎·巴科娃作对
26	but there's been a lot of change recently,	但最近发生了很多变化
27	as you might have seen, with what's going on.	正如你可能已经看到, 与发生了什么。
28	所以首先 我们有Tanush Agarwal
29	and Barath Ananthaman is going second.	巴拉斯・阿南塔曼是第二位。
30	These are two of Oxford University's finance debaters,	这是牛津大学的两位金融辩论者
31	and we're all looking forward to see how they go about	我们都期待着看到他们如何去
32	opposing the man that's consistently rated	反对总是被评为
33	as the greatest Britain of all time.	作为有史以来最伟大的英国。
34	Third, we have Professor Brendan Simms	第三,布伦丹·西姆斯教授来了
35	from the University of Cambridge.	剑桥大学的
36	And I hope you enjoy your time at the best university in the world tonight.	我希望你能享受今晚最好的大学时光
37	Now, I also wanted to thank Reform's Big Wigs	现在,我也想感谢改革的大维
38	for coming here tonight to the curtain raiser.	因为今晚会来这里 来到拉窗帘的人。
39	Who better to debate about the British bulldog	谁最好辩论英国斗牛犬
40	than those who specialize in dog whistle politics?	比那些专攻狗口哨政治的人?
41	Many people are wondering why a Wadamite	许多人在想为什么是和田
42	is here on the side of the Chamber.	位于会议厅一侧。
43	Well, if Nigel Farage becomes Prime Minister,	如果奈杰尔·法拉吉成为首相
44	I'm sure they'll want to pack the House of Lords.	我相信他们会想收拾上议院的
45	So we're hoping that if the cash-for-honor system is reintroduced here,	所以我们希望如果在这里重新采用现金换收入制度
46	a few of us are hoping for a student discount tonight.	我们几个希望今晚有学生折扣
47	Our London mayoral candidate, Leila Cunningham,	我们的伦敦市长候选人 莱拉·坎宁安
48	has recently suggested the idea of banning all Pakistanis on visas.	最近有人建议禁止所有巴基斯坦人持签证。
49	Madam President, the reason I raise it	总统女士,我提这个的原因
50	is because this House absolutely rejects	那是因为这个天房是否认的,
51	the notion of sowing such division.	传播这种分裂的概念。
52	Here at Oxford, many of our illustrious members, presidents,	在牛津,我们许多杰出成员,总统,
53	and even prime ministers come on that visa.	连首相都签了签证
54	Madam President, these are your speakers,	主席女士,这些是你的发言者,
55	and as always at the last Bastion of Free Speech,	和往常一样 在最后的"自由演说",
56	they are most welcome.	他们非常受欢迎。
57	Many heroes adorn our walls,	许多英雄都装饰着我们的墙壁
58	and when we invite speakers, we usually single out a few.	我们邀请发言者时,通常只举几个人。
59	The Queen, Albert Einstein, but always Winston Churchill.	女王阿尔伯特·爱因斯坦,但总是温斯顿·丘吉尔.
60	He represented ideals of courage,	他代表着勇气的理想
61	outstanding achievements, and noble qualities.	杰出成就和崇高品质。
62	He did not merely lead Britain through crisis.	他不仅仅带领英国经历了危机。
63	He redefined what leadership meant.	他重新界定了领导的意义。
64	Churchill was not just a hero of his time,	丘吉尔不仅是他的英雄时代,
65	but the reason Britain had a future at all,	但英国有未来的原因
66	in which we can sit here today and even debate him.	今天我们可以坐在这里甚至辩论他。
67	It may seem obvious now in hindsight,	事后看来可能很明显
68	but how could you trust a man like Hitler?	但你怎么能相信希特勒这样的人?
69	There were many individuals in his own cabinet,	他的内阁里有很多人
70	such as Lord Halifax, who were seeking to make deals with him.	比如哈利法克斯勋爵 他试图与他交易
71	Neville Chamberlain, Churchill's predecessor,	纳维尔·张伯伦,丘吉尔的前身,
72	sought appeasement in the 1930s,	在1930年代寻求绥靖,
73	resulting in the Munich Agreement,	导致《慕尼黑协定》,
74	an agreement that Hitler then violated six months later	六个月后希特勒违反的协议
75	when he invaded Poland.	他入侵波兰时
76	And yet Churchill stood resolute.	然而丘吉尔却坚定不移
77	He did not negotiate.	他没有谈判。
78	He did not wane.	他没有弱。
79	And he made it clear to his people	他对他的宗族说得很清楚
80	that he was ready to die fighting rather than surrender.	他准备战死而不是投降
81	The words of defiance are impassable from our minds and history.	我们的思想和历史都无法容忍这种蔑视的言论。
82	We shall fight on the beaches.	我们要在海滩上战斗
83	We shall fight on the landing grounds.	我们要在着陆场战斗
84	We shall never surrender.	我们绝不投降。
85	They remind us that heroism is not born of ease,	他们提醒我们,英雄主义并非由轻松而生,
86	but of courage in the face of overwhelming odds.	面对重重的险境 却有勇气
87	It was he who built the Grand Alliance of the U.S. and Russia.	正是他建立了美俄大联盟.
88	He recognized that, with exceptional clarity,	他承认,非常明确,
89	that the defeat of Nazi Germany	纳粹德国的失败
90	required a coalition that transcended ideology and national interest.	需要一个超越意识形态和国家利益的联盟。
91	In forging unity where none naturally existed,	在没有自然存在的地方建立团结,
92	Churchill demonstrated a form of heroism	丘吉尔表现了一种英雄主义
93	rooted not in sentiment, but in judgment and responsibility.	根植于不是感情 而是判断和责任
94	And his heroic acts were not confined just to World War II.	他的英勇行为并不仅仅局限于二战.
95	In 1899, he escaped from a prison of war camp	1899年,他从战俘营逃出
96	during the Second World War.	第二次世界大战期间
97	These words are lifted from his biography,	这些话从他的传记中删除了
98	and it gives you a flavor of his achievements.	让你尝尝他的成就
99	I reached Durban to find myself a popular hero,	我来到德班是为了找个受欢迎的英雄
100	welled along on the shoulders of the crowd,	在人群的肩膀上,
101	where nothing would content them but a speech.	在那里,他们只得说几句。
102	And then again, in World War I,	在第一次世界大战中,
103	he actively sought military service for his country.	他积极寻求为本国服兵役。
104	Leaning from the front and under enemy fire,	在敌军的火力下从前线俯冲
105	he often remarked to his soldiers,	他常常对他的士兵说:
106	It's no point ducking.	躲起来没意义
107	The bullets have passed.	子弹已经过去。
108	In the same war, he also championed the Brodie Helmet,	在同一场战争中,他还卫冕了布罗迪·赫尔梅特的冠军,
109	reducing fatalities from shrapnel by around 75%,	将弹片造成的死亡减少约75%,
110	ultimately saving thousands of lives.	最终拯救了成千上万人的生命。
111	Now consider the alternatives.	现在考虑其他选择。
112	Imagine Britain in 1940 with a different leader,	想象一下英国在1940年 与另一个领导人,
113	a prime minister who sought compromise with Hitler,	一个寻求与希特勒妥协的总理
114	who whispered of appeasement while Europe burned.	在欧洲被焚毁的时候 悄悄地说着安抚
115	Would history remember such a figure as heroic?	历史会记得这样一个英雄人物吗?
116	Certainly not.	当然不会
117	Churchill's heroism lies precisely in that choice,	丘吉尔的英雄主义 恰恰在于这个选择,
118	the courage to resist, to rally,	反抗的勇气, 团结,
119	and to lead against the tide of fear.	并领导对抗恐惧的潮流。
120	And his heroic acts are not limited	他的英雄行为并不有限
121	to wartime speeches or strategy alone.	单凭战时演说或策略
122	There is an abundance of examples.	例子很多。
123	Churchill understood the stakes of liberty,	丘吉尔明白自由的意义
124	freedom, and moral imperative to defend it.	自由和捍卫自由的道德义务。
125	When he refused to consider surrender,	当他拒绝考虑投降时
126	he inspired a nation to believe in itself.	他激励一个国家相信自己。
127	And as a result, he gave the world hope.	于是他给世界带来了希望。
128	Hope is, after all, the most heroic of gifts.	归根结底,希望是最英勇的礼物。
129	Now let's address the crux of the opposition's debate tonight.	现在我们来谈谈反对派今晚辩论的症结
130	If they're going to spend the next hour	如果他们接下来要花一个小时
131	calling Churchill a racist and imperialist,	称丘吉尔为种族主义和帝国主义,
132	I can save you some time.	我可以救你一些时间。
133	He absolutely was.	他绝对是。
134	These ideologies aren't acceptable now, then, or ever.	现在、现在或永远都不能接受这些意识形态。
135	But tonight's motion asks, was Churchill a hero?	但是今晚的动议问,丘吉尔是英雄吗?
136	And that, he most definitely was.	他绝对是
137	Heroism is not the absence of flaws.	英雄主义并不是没有缺陷。
138	Churchill made grave mistakes,	丘吉尔犯了严重的错误,
139	his record on the British Empire,	他在大英帝国的纪录,
140	his policies during the Bengal famine,	他的政策 在孟加拉饥荒,
141	causing the death of millions of people	造成数百万人死亡
142	in the Indian subcontinent,	在印度次大陆,
143	and described them, my ancestors, as beastly people,	并描述他们,我的祖先, 作为野兽的人,
144	and that the famine was their fault for breeding like rabbits.	饥荒是他们像兔子一样繁殖的错
145	To claim Churchill wasn't an imperialist or a racist	丘吉尔不是帝国主义者,也不是种族主义者
146	would be dishonest and unworthy of serious debate.	这将是不诚实和不值得认真辩论。
147	Such actions have and will always receive condemnation	这种行动已经而且将永远受到谴责
148	from both sides of the house.	从两侧的房子。
149	Therefore, I also hope the opposition	因此,我也希望反对派
150	will condemn Florence Nightingale, Horatio Nelson,	将谴责佛罗伦萨·南丁格尔 霍拉西奥·尼尔森
151	and other leading figures of the time who had similar ideas.	以及当时其他有类似想法的主要人物.
152	When the British people thought he was no longer	当英国人民认为他不再
153	the best person to lead them, he was duly replaced.	他是领导他们的最佳人选 他被妥善取代了
154	However, they never forgot Churchill and what they owed him.	然而,他们从未忘记丘吉尔和他们欠他的东西.
155	And in the end, gifted the honour of being the only non-royal	最后,我有幸成为唯一的非皇帝
156	in the last 100 years to be honoured with a state funeral.	在过去的100年里 被授予国家葬礼的荣誉
157	Sorry, there's a lot of disruption tonight,	对不起,今晚有很多麻烦
158	so I didn't think I would do any of this.	所以我没想到我会做这些
159	To judge Churchill only by his flaws	仅凭丘吉尔的缺点来判断他
160	is to misunderstand the essence of being a hero.	就是要误解英雄的本质
161	It is measured not by the absence of error,	不以无差错为衡量标准,
162	but by the courage to act when it counts,	但凭勇气在有需要的时候采取行动,
163	by the vision to see beyond oneself,	以能见其外者发誓,
164	and by the willingness to shoulder responsibility	并愿意承担责任
165	of the fate of others.	将他人的命运
166	Churchill's decisions not only changed the fate of Britain,	丘吉尔的决定不仅改变了英国的命运,
167	but of the free world.	而是自由世界的
168	His courage helped preserve democracy in Europe,	他的勇气有助于维护欧洲的民主,
169	halted the spread of fascism,	制止法西斯主义的蔓延,
170	and inspired generations to come.	并启示后世。
171	That is heroism in its purest form.	这是最纯洁的英雄主义。
172	Many can and should validly debate	许多人可以而且应该进行有效辩论
173	the legacy of the greatest Briton.	伟大的布里顿的遗产。
174	I mean, what's the point of having this chamber if we don't?	如果我们不这样做,这个房间有什么意义?
175	But in terms of tonight's motion, I agree unequivocally.	但就今晚的动议而言 我明确同意
176	When Britain and the world needed him,	当英国和世界需要他时
177	Sir Winston Churchill was the hero that saved us all from the Nazis.	温斯顿·丘吉尔爵士是从纳粹手中拯救我们所有人的英雄。
178	And I urge the honourable members to support the motion tonight.	我敦促尊敬的成员支持今晚的动议。
179	Thank you very much.	谢谢
180	Thank you.	谢谢
181	Thank you, Adnan.	谢谢你,阿德南
182	Next, I would like to invite Opposition Speaker Mr Tanush Agarwal	接下来,我请反对党议长塔努什·阿加瓦尔先生发言。
183	to deliver his speech.	来发表演讲
184	Okay.	摆
185	I know reform is often uneasy	我知道改革常常很不安
186	with the language of nuance and spectrums,	以细微和频谱的语言,
187	but history, inconveniently for them,	但历史对他们来说是不方便的,
188	has never operated in binaries.	从未用二进制操作。
189	When we ask whether Winston Churchill was a hero,	当我们问温斯顿·丘吉尔是不是英雄时
190	we are not asking whether he ever did anything good,	我们没有问他有没有做过好事,
191	or whether Britain survived moments of crisis	英国是否在危机中幸存下来
192	while he happened to be in office.	他刚好在任期间
193	History is full of powerful men	历史充满了强大的人
194	who are effective, decisive, and even victorious,	他们是有效的,是果断的,甚至是胜利的;
195	and yet all morally indefensible.	却在道德上无可辩驳
196	Tonight, heroism for proposition	今晚,英雄主义为提议
197	has a narrow and demanding burden,	负担是狭隘和苛刻的,
198	and it is this burden that they will be unable to discharge.	他们不能履行这一重负。
199	But before that, it falls upon me	但在此之前,它落在我身上
200	to introduce our proposition bench tonight.	今晚介绍我们的建议席
201	You have just heard from Dr Adnan Malik,	你刚听到阿德南·马利克博士的消息
202	an MBA student at Said.	赛德的MBA学生。
203	Now, prior to this debate, I had actually never met Dr Malik,	在这场辩论之前 我从未见过马利克医生
204	but I was surprised to hear that two reform people	但我惊讶地听到两个改革者
205	had managed to get someone with a PhD	找了个有博士学位的人
206	on their side of the house.	在他们的房子一侧。
207	But rest assured, as I found out,	但请放心,我发现,
208	Dr Malik is actually a doctor in medicine,	马利克医生其实是医学博士
209	urology to be exact,	确切地说,泌尿科
210	where he ranked as the second best surgeon	他的外科医生排名第二
211	in national selection.	在国家甄选中。
212	So for all you medics in the crowd,	所以,对于所有 在人群中的医护人员,
213	the second best future surgeon in the NHS sold out.	未来第二好的外科医生 在NHS的销量。
214	I don't want to hear anything about PPEists ever again.	我不想再听到任何关于个人防护人员的消息
215	Next, you will hear from Zia Youssef,	接下来是齐亚·尤瑟夫的消息
216	the current head of policy at Reform,	现任改革政策主管,
217	and a man who truly proves	和一个能证明自己
218	that when reforms say anti-establishment,	当改革说反对建立,
219	they really mean anti-current establishment.	他们真的是指反当前机构。
220	He's a tech entrepreneur and former banker	他是一个技术企业家和前银行家
221	who became the party's biggest donor and then its chair,	他成为了党的最大捐赠者 然后是主席
222	which I suppose is one way to do grassroots politics.	我认为这是基层政治的一种方式。
223	You start from the top and work your way down.	你从头开始往下走
224	Mr Youssef met Nigel Farage	尤瑟夫先生认识了奈杰尔·法拉吉
225	在Stuart Wheeler主持的鸡尾酒会上
226	which is a funny enough sentence on its own,	这句子很搞笑
227	but gets even funnier when juxtaposed	但更有趣 当并排
228	against Mr Youssef's insistence	反对尤瑟夫先生的坚持
229	that reform is anti-elite,	改革是反精英的,
230	because nothing says more for the people	因为对人民来说没什么比这更重要的了
231	than a tech millionaire who met Nigel Farage	比一个技术百万富翁 遇见奈杰尔·法拉吉
232	在Stuart Wheeler主持的鸡尾酒会上
233	though I guess I'm jealous,	虽然我想我是嫉妒,
234	I'm probably not British enough to be let in.	我可能不够英国 被允许进入。
235	I will say this, it is rare to see someone become party chair	我要说,很少见到有人当党主席
236	without first going through the inconvenience	不首先经历不便
237	of believing in the party,	相信党,
238	but I suppose miracles happen if you have enough money	但我猜如果你有足够的钱 奇迹就会发生
239	to be on the top of the donor list.	在捐赠者名单中名列前茅
240	Finally, you will hear from Leila Cunningham.	最后,你将听到莱拉・坎宁安的消息。
241	Now, the rows for Leila Cunningham are on that paper,	现在,莱拉·坎宁安的行 在报纸上,
242	which I threw on the floor,	我扔在地板上,
243	but I'll remember off the top of my head.	但我会记住 从头到尾。
244	About 70% of her early life page on Wikipedia	在维基百科上她早期生命的70%左右
245	is dedicated to her basketball talent,	献身于她的篮球天赋,
246	which, Ms Cunningham, if you were going to defect anyways,	坎宁安小姐 如果你反正要叛变
247	why not just go all the way to the Lakers?	为什么不直接去湖人队?
248	If you want to have fun failing,	如果你想玩玩失败,
249	I think there's better ways of doing that,	我认为有更好的方法做到这一点,
250	but I guess none would be as much of a guarantee	但我想没有比这更好的保证了
251	as running for reform in London, so fair enough.	在伦敦竞选改革,那么公平
252	Ms Cunningham defected, for those who don't know,	坎宁安女士叛变了 对于不知道的人来说
253	from the conservatives to reform,	从保守派到改革,
254	which, to be honest, is probably one of the most honest journeys	老实说,这可能是最诚实的旅程之一
255	I've seen in British politics.	我看过英国政治
256	I mean, they just skipped the whole, like, lie	我的意思是,他们只是跳过 整个一样,谎言
257	about believing in principles in the first place,	确信原则,
258	so fair enough to Ms Cunningham.	对坎宁安女士来说太公平了
259	But all jokes aside, I wish them good luck	但除了笑话 我祝他们好运
260	for the rest of this debate.	接下来的辩论。
261	Madam President, these are your guests, and they are most welcome.	主席女士,这是你的客人,非常欢迎他们。
262	Okay, let's begin.	好了,开始吧
263	I want to begin with a central moral question in this debate.	我想从本次辩论中的中心道德问题开始。
264	What does it mean to be a hero?	做英雄意味着什么?
265	Because tonight, I'm sure, and as you did just here,	因为今晚,我敢肯定, 正如你刚刚在这里,
266	you will hear the claim that heroes can be flawed	你会听到英雄有缺陷的说法
267	so long as they did heroic things.	只要他们做了英雄的事
268	And I wouldn't blame anyone in this crowd	我不会责怪这群人中的任何人
269	for holding this intuition,	因为持有这种直觉,
270	because I don't think it's necessarily wrong,	因为我不认为这是必然错误的,
271	it's just dangerously unspecific.	它只是危险的不具体。
272	Instead, there are three relevant constraints,	相反,有三个相关的制约因素:
273	and each one is fatal to Churchill.	每个都对丘吉尔来说都是致命的
274	First, heroism must necessarily be universal.	首先,英雄主义必须具有普遍性。
275	It is not enough to be a hero to some	做英雄还不够
276	while being an active source of suffering to others.	同时也是他人痛苦的源头
277	I would note that if you abandon universality,	我要指出,如果你放弃普遍性,
278	even history's worst villains can be called heroes	甚至历史最坏的恶棍 也可以叫做英雄
279	in the eyes of their supporters.	在他们的支持者眼中
280	So, you need the average moral human	所以,你需要一个普通的道德人
281	to rationally consider you a hero	理性地认为你是英雄
282	regardless of whether they were Bengali,	无论他们是孟加拉人,
283	Irish, or British.	爱尔兰人,或英国人。
284	Second, heroes can be flawed	第二,英雄有缺陷
285	because fear and error are human.	因为恐惧和错误是人
286	But in moments of fear, a hero acts bravely.	但是在恐惧的时刻,一个英雄勇敢地行动.
287	In moments of error, a hero corrects course.	在错误的时刻,一个英雄会修正路线.
288	The underlying character remains intact	基本特征保持不变
289	and crucially, morally salient.	关键是,道德上的突出。
290	But what is not a flaw,	但这不是一个缺陷,
291	and what simply can't be morally excused as mistakes,	而那些在道德上不能被原谅的错误,
292	is the repeated and deliberate use of power	是反复和蓄意地使用权力
293	to support oppression, repression, and violence.	支持压迫、镇压和暴力。
294	And that is what Barth will talk about in his speech	这也是巴斯在演讲中要说的
295	because what that points to is not just a moral flaw,	因为那不仅仅是道德缺陷
296	but a fundamentally morally abhorrent value system.	但却是一个道德上令人憎恶的价值观体系
297	Third, and most importantly,	第三,最重要的是,
298	some harms are so grave, so systemic, and so avoidable	有些伤害是如此严重,如此系统,如此可避免
299	that they ought to fundamentally dominate	他们应该从根本上支配
300	a person's moral legacy.	一个人的道德遗产。
301	Consider the situation of a serial killer	考虑连环杀手的情况
302	who, after every person he kills,	他杀过每个人,
303	saves a child from a burning building.	将孩子从燃烧的建筑物中拯救出来。
304	We may call the act heroic,	我们可以称它为英雄行为,
305	but we would not call that person heroic.	但我们不会称他为英雄
306	Because at that point, we are no longer weighing	因为此时此刻 我们不再重
307	moments of good and bad in life,	生活中的好坏时刻
308	we are actively weighing moral thresholds.	我们正在积极权衡道德门槛。
309	And for Churchill, this is the bodies	对丘吉尔来说 这是尸体
310	he must atone for in Bengal	他必须在孟加拉赎罪
311	and the topic of my speech today.	还有我今天演讲的主题
312	At this point, proposition may say,	此时,提议可能说,
313	well, this is an impossibly high standard.	这个标准太高了
314	But it is not.	但事实并非如此。
315	We do not struggle to identify heroes when they exist.	当英雄存在时,我们并不为识别英雄而奋斗。
316	People like Douglas Bader, who lost both his legs	像道格拉斯·巴德尔这样的人 失去了双腿
317	and still flew on during the Battle of Britain.	在不列颠战役中依然飞翔
318	Desmond Doss, who saved lives without taking them.	德斯蒙德·多斯,他拯救了生命而不夺走他们.
319	And if you need more examples,	如果你需要更多的例子,
320	I urge you to simply walk through the dozens of memorials	我劝你走过数十座纪念堂
321	within our own colleges	在我们自己的学院里
322	that list the names of these heroes.	上面列出了这些英雄的名字
323	So the standard in this debate is not unclear	所以这次辩论的标准并不清楚
324	and it is not high.	却不高。
325	Which brings us to the point where proposition's case	这让我们想到了提案的理由
326	stops being rhetorical and starts being historical.	停止夸夸其谈,开始成为历史。
327	Because if there's any single episode	因为如果有单一的一集
328	that tells us whether Winston Churchill's life	这告诉我们温斯顿·丘吉尔的一生
329	was heroic, it is the Bengal famine.	是孟加拉饥荒,
330	And no amount of speech making tonight	今晚没有太多的演讲
331	will feed three million people who are left to starve.	{\fn华文楷体\fs16\1cHE0E0E0}能养活三百万饿死的人 {\fn华文楷体\fs16\1cHE0E0E0}我们不会放过你的
332	Let me begin with what Bengal looked like.	让我从孟加拉人的样子开始。
333	In October 1943,	1943年10月,任,.
334	the AP reported from Dhaka	达卡报告的《附加议定书》
335	that the unclaimed body of a Hindu boy	一个印度教男孩的无名尸体
336	about 12 years old was found	12岁左右被发现
337	lying in front of a government grain shop	躺在政府粮店前
338	in Narayanganj.	在纳拉扬甘杰
339	His body had been devoured by jackals and vultures	他的身体被狼和秃鹰吞噬
340	as he was alive, starving on the ground.	他活着,在地上挨饿
341	Too weak to move	太弱不能移动
342	and too weak to flee.	和太虚弱无法逃离。
343	On the roadside, relief worker Sister Dolores	在路边,救济工Dolores修女
344	found a woman groaning in agony.	发现一个女人在痛苦中呻吟
345	When she approached, she realized	当她接近,她意识到
346	the woman's eyes were gone.	那个女人的眼睛不见了
347	Both eye sockets were open wounds	两只眼睛都开着伤口
348	full of maggots.	满是蛆.
349	The woman had been alive	那个女人还活着
350	as they ate through her face	当他们从她脸上吃掉
351	and she was too weak to resist.	她太虚弱无法抗拒
352	These are not metaphors.	这些不是比喻。
353	This is reality	这是现实
354	in 1943.	1943年时.
355	And what I want to make absolutely clear in this argument	我想在这场争论中说清楚
356	is that this famine was not inevitable.	这场饥荒并不是不可避免的。
357	It was the result of a predictable economic	这是经济可以预测的结果
358	collapse, exacerbated by deliberate	倒闭,因故意
359	policy decisions that Churchill is directly	丘吉尔直接作出的政策决定
360	responsible for.	负责。
361	Here's how it began.	就是这样开始的
362	By late 1942, Bengal was under the strain	到1942年末,孟加拉人已经承受了压力
363	of a wartime economy.	战争时期的经济。
364	Inflation was rising sharply.	通货膨胀急剧上升。
365	The bizarre bill rate sat at around 7%	奇异的账单率大约为7%
366	while bank deposit rates were around 2%.	而银行存款利率约为2%。
367	And I know Mr. Youssef used to work at Goldman	我知道尤瑟夫先生以前在高曼工作过
368	so I'm sure he understands what that means.	所以我肯定他明白这是什么意思
369	That rice, not bonds or savings, became	大米,不是债券或储蓄,变成了
370	the most profitable place to store wealth.	最有利可图的地方储存财富。
371	So naturally, anyone who had money	很自然,有钱的人
372	began to do so.	开始这样做。
373	At the same time,	同时,
374	British wartime policies created	英国的战时政策
375	priority classes in urban centers	城市中心的重点班级
376	like Kolkata for workers in war industries	像加尔各答的工人在战争工业
377	whose wages rose and whose access	其工资上升,其获得
378	to food was protected by the empire.	食物被帝国保护
379	But for over 90% of the Bengali	但对于90%以上的孟加拉人来说
380	population of agricultural	农业人口
381	laborers, fishermen, artisans,	工人、渔民、工匠、
382	there was no increase in purchasing	采购没有增加
383	power.	权力。
384	They produced food but they	他们生产食物,但他们
385	could not afford it.	买不起
386	So the poor	所以穷人
387	were priced out.	被定价了。
388	Starvation	饥饿
389	became visible.	变得明显。
390	Panic	恐慌
391	accelerated hoarding and the market	加速囤积和市场
392	collapsed.	崩溃了
393	Amartya	阿玛蒂亚
394	Sen once famously said that no	森有一次很出名地说没有
395	famine has ever taken place in the history	历史上发生过饥荒
396	of the world in a functioning democracy	在世界任何有效民主中
397	because in such situations, accountability	因为在这种情况下,问责制
398	forces intervention.	部队干预。
399	But instead of intervening to stabilize prices,	而不是为了稳定价格而干预
400	redistribute food, or protect rural	或保护农村
401	incomes, British policy poured fuel	收入,英国政策注入燃料
402	into the fire.	进入火中。
403	What did the British do?	英国人做了什么?
404	First, after Japan captured	首先,日本俘虏之后
405	Burma in early 1942, the British	1942年初的缅甸,英国人
406	government implemented what it called denial	政府执行了所谓的否认
407	policies in Bengal.	孟加拉邦的政策。
408	To prevent the Japanese	为了阻止日本人
409	from potentially capturing surprise, authorities	当局可能感到惊讶
410	removed or destroyed rice and paddy	水稻和稻谷被拆除或毁坏
411	in coastal districts such as Midnapore,	在诸如米德纳波尔等沿海地区,
412	Bakarganj, and Kulna.	巴卡尔甘杰,和库尔纳。
413	Then came the second blow, the boat denial	然后,第二次袭击,船否认
414	policy.	政策。
415	All boats that were capable	所有有能力的船只
416	of carrying over ten people were	载着十多人
417	confiscated, destroyed, or	没收、销毁或
418	otherwise removed.	以其他方式删除。
419	And Bengal was	孟加拉语是
420	a river province.	一个河流省份。
421	Boats were essential	船是必需的
422	infrastructure.	基础设施。
423	So when you take 45,000	所以当你拿45,000
424	boats, what you end up	船,你最后会怎样
425	with is the destruction of the livelihoods	他们的生计将遭毁灭,
426	of fishermen, crippled food	渔民、残废食品
427	distribution, and dramatically increased	分配,大幅度增加
428	transport costs.	运输费用。
429	And the result, well,	结果呢?
430	it was what you would expect.	这是你所期望的。
431	People sold their tools,	人们卖掉工具
432	then their homes, then their	然后是他们的家,然后是他们的家,
433	land.	陆地。
434	And when there was nothing left to sell,	当没有什么可以卖,
435	they walked, sometimes for days,	他们走了,有时几天,
436	to cities like Kolkata, dragging	到加尔各答等城市,拖拽
437	corpses onto the streets in hopes of	尸体上街,希望
438	sweet mercy from their colonizers,	他们的殖民者的慈悲,
439	for food and for scripts,	食物和剧本,
440	or if nothing else, death among	或者,如果没有别的东西,死亡在
441	others as opposed to alone.	而不是一个人
442	And all of this happened while the British	这一切发生在英国人
443	remained in control.	继续控制。
444	Which now brings us	现在又来了
445	to the question of responsibility.	责任问题。
446	First, even if Churchill was distant,	首先,即使丘吉尔很遥远,
447	Bengal was a colony.	孟加拉是一个殖民地。
448	Every law,	每一个法律,
449	decision, and government policy was	政府的政策是
450	controlled, especially during wartime,	特别是在战时,
451	by London and the war cabinet.	伦敦和战争内阁。
452	So at face value, in the same way that	所以,在面值, 同样的方式
453	being the face of the empire gives you moral	作为帝国的面孔 让你道德
454	credit for hope on their side of the house,	感谢在他们家的希望,
455	it means a duty of care that matters	意思是谨慎的责任
456	on ours.	我们的。
457	But Churchill was not	但丘吉尔不是
458	just a distant bystander.	只是一个遥远的旁观者。
459	He knew that this was happening.	他知道这是真的
460	Senior	高级
461	officials warned him repeatedly.	官员一再警告他。
462	The	那个
463	viceroy, Lorne Linlithgow, pressed London	洛恩·林利思高 副州长 伦敦
464	for emergency grain shipments, Leo Amory,	紧急粮食运输,利奥·阿莫里,
465	the secretary of state, wrote urgently	国务卿写了紧急信
466	that people were starving and that relief was needed	人们正在挨饿,需要救济
467	immediately.	马上
468	And to all of this,	对于这一切,
469	Churchill responded with delay,	丘吉尔反应迟缓,
470	obstruction, and contempt.	阻挠和蔑视。
471	In his own words, recorded by the secretary of state,	用他自己的话 由国务卿记录
472	Churchill dismissed the crisis by asking	丘吉尔拒绝了危机,问
473	why, if food was so scarce,	为什么,如果食物如此稀缺,
474	Gandhi had not starved yet,	甘地还没有饿死
475	or complained that Indians were breeding	或者抱怨印第安人在繁殖
476	like rabbits.	像兔子一样
477	And these aren't just	这些不只是
478	throwaway insults.	丢弃的侮辱。
479	They are moral	他们是道德的
480	evidence to Churchill's direct culpability	证明丘吉尔的直接罪责
481	in perpetration of this atrocity.	犯下这种暴行。
482	Now, they might say in response,	现在,他们可能会说 作为回应,
483	sorry, I thought it was 14-minute speeches,	对不起 我以为是14分钟的演讲
484	that Britain was fighting for survival.	英国为生存而战
485	Grain	谷物
486	was needed elsewhere in Europe, maybe in the Balkans,	需要在欧洲其他地方,也许在巴尔干,
487	and the shipping was scarce.	而船运则稀少。
488	But by	不过
489	mid-1943, the war had reached	1943年中,战争已经到来
490	a turning point.	一个转折点。
491	The German U-boat campaign	德国U型潜艇战役
492	in the Atlantic had been	在大西洋上,曾经
493	decisively broken.	断了
494	Black May forced	黑五月强迫
495	on its to withdraw submarines	撤退潜艇
496	after suffering catastrophic losses.	在遭受灾难性损失之后
497	In the Pacific, the US had expelled	在太平洋,美国驱逐了
498	Japanese forces from Guadalcanal and	来自瓜达尔卡纳尔和
499	the Solomon Islands.	所罗门群岛。
500	Japan could no	日本不会的
501	longer seriously threaten allied shipping lanes.	更严重威胁盟军航道
502	And this doesn't mean the war was over,	这并不意味着战争已经结束了
503	but it does mean the argument that shipping relief	但是这确实意味着 航运救济
504	poses an existential threat to war	对战争构成生存威胁
505	efforts no longer holds.	努力已经停止。
506	At the	在那个
507	same time, the Balkans were still under Nazi	同时,巴尔干地区仍在纳粹统治之下
508	occupation, meaning there couldn't be famine relief.	也就是说不可能有饥荒救济
509	And here's the thing that they won't tell you.	他们不会告诉你的
510	In 1943, Churchill himself	1943年,丘吉尔本人
511	directly decreed a diversion of Indian	直接下令转移印度人
512	registered ships to the North Atlantic	向北大西洋的注册船舶
513	supply effort, cutting Bengal's shipping	供应努力,切断孟加拉的航运
514	capacity by around 60% against	大约60%的产能
515	the advice of the secretary of state	国务卿的建议
516	and others within his war cabinet.	以及他战争内阁中的其他人物
517	By 1944, Britain had	到1944年,英国
518	so much shipping capacity in the North	北方有这么多的航运能力
519	Atlantic that cargo ships were	大西洋的货船
520	literally sailing half empty.	从字面上说,航行半空。
521	So when	所以什么时候
522	the government says that there was no shipping, which they might,	政府说,没有航运, 他们可能,
523	I don't know if they're prepared, what they're really saying	我不知道他们有没有准备好,他们到底在说什么
524	is that Churchill over-diverted out of fear	是丘吉尔因恐惧过度溺水
525	and did not correct course when	并且没有纠正路线
526	that fear proved unfounded, breaking	恐惧证明是没有根据的 打破了
527	rule two of heroism.	英雄主义的规则二
528	During 1942 to 43,	1942至43年间,
529	India experienced a net export of	印度净出口
530	approximately 360,000	约360 000人
531	tons of grain.	粮食吨。
532	When relief finally	当解脱终于
533	came in 1944, it amounted	1944年来,就等于
534	to only 80,000 tons, which	至仅80 000吨,即
535	wasn't even enough to feed the Indian army	连印度军队都不够养活
536	stationed in India.	驻印度.
537	By contrast,	相比之下,
538	Britain imported millions	英国进口百万
539	of tons of grain during the same period	同期粮食吨数
540	from the US and Canada.	来自美国和加拿大
541	So even if I'm being incredibly,	所以,即使我令人难以置信,
542	incredibly charitable,	令人难以置信的慈善,
543	this is the moral arithmetic that Churchill	这是丘吉尔的道德算术
544	chose.	选择。
545	Speculative, future	投机,未来
546	benefit for a	养恤金
547	number of people that was less, over	人数少,超过
548	certain, present death for millions.	当然,现在的死亡为数百万。
549	And ultimately, this is why	最后,这就是为什么
550	responsibility can't just be washed	责任不能只是冲洗
551	away by saying things like hope	说出希望之类的话
552	by bantering to the fact that Churchill was one of	丘吉尔是
553	the greatest Brits ever.	最伟大的英国人
554	He might have been	他可能已经
555	one of the greatest Brits ever, but I don't think that	有史以来最伟大的英国人之一, 但我不认为
556	excuses the three million people that died.	为三百万死难者辩解
557	Now, I could have spent time in this	现在,我本来可以花时间在这
558	speech elsewhere, as I'm sure you guys are probably thinking.	在别处讲话,我敢肯定,你们可能在思考。
559	I could have talked about Churchill's broader	我本可以谈谈丘吉尔的宽度
560	record across the empire, because Bengal	整个帝国都有记录 因为孟加拉人
561	was by far from the only place	远在遥远的地方
562	where he treated colonized lives as expendable.	在那里,他把殖民者的生活当作牺牲品。
563	I could have talked about how, as War Secretary,	作为战争部长 我本来可以说
564	he wrote that he was strongly in	他写道,他强烈的在
565	favor of using poisoned gas against	喜欢用毒气对抗
566	uncivilized tribes, because his words,	不文明的部落,因为他的话,
567	the moral effect, would be to spread	道德效应,就是传播
568	lively terror.	生动恐怖.
569	And any of those	和其中任何一点
570	points could be a separate argument tonight, and some	点可以是一个单独的争论 今晚,一些
571	of these will be made later on.	这些建议将在稍后提出。
572	But I am not going to do that, because I want to make	但我不会这样做,因为我想
573	one thing unmistakably clear.	有一件事是绝对清楚的
574	When they excuse his actions	当他们原谅他的行为时
575	because he gave hope,	因为他给了希望,
576	even if you knew nothing else about Churchill,	即使你对丘吉尔一无所知
577	even if you wiped the rest of his record	即使你抹去了他剩下的记录
578	clean and kept every other good deed he did	保持他所做的一切善事
579	in mind, there is no excuse.	考虑到这一点,没有借口。
580	No excuse tonight that is	今晚没有借口了
581	sufficient to wash the hands	足够洗手了
582	of the blood of three million	300万的血迹
583	Bengali citizens.	孟加拉公民.
584	Ten times	十个
585	more than the total death	超过死亡总数
586	toll the British faced through the entire	整个英国都面临损失
587	war, in one year!	战争,一年之内!
588	In one year.	一年之内
589	Winston	温斯顿
590	Churchill was a powerful man, and powerful	丘吉尔是一个强大的人, 和强大的
591	men are often judged by the decisions they	男子往往根据他们的决定受到评判。
592	make.	做起来。
593	In Britain, Churchill delivered	在英国,丘吉尔交付
594	brilliant speeches.	精彩的演讲。
595	In India,	在印度,
596	Churchill delivered murderous silence.	丘吉尔给了谋杀的沉默。
597	So as you walk out of these doors tonight,	所以当你今晚走出这些门时
598	remember this.	记住这一点。
599	The human history	人类历史
600	is filled with tales of the	充满了传说
601	strong, the brave, and the kind.	强者,勇者,与类也.
602	We glamorize the strong,	我们迷惑强者,
603	for we wish to conquer our enemies.	因为我们希望征服我们的敌人。
604	We glamorize the brave, for we wish to conquer	我们闪耀勇士,因为我们想要征服
605	our demons.	我们的恶魔。
606	And we glamorize the kind,	我们闪耀这种,
607	for we wish to conquer our selfishness.	因为我们想征服我们的自私
608	Winston Churchill, on occasion, showed	温斯顿·丘吉尔偶尔会出现
609	flashes of these traits.	这些特性的闪光。
610	But these flashes	但是这些闪光
611	were shadowed by his evils.	被他的罪恶所笼罩
612	This was a man who used his	这是一个男人谁用他的
613	strength to destroy the weak, performed	摧毁弱者的力量,表现
614	bravery to hold	勇于坚守
615	to his power, and weaponized	他的力量,并武器化
616	the kindness of the meek for his own ends.	温柔的善良为他自己的目的。
617	The halls of history are filled	历史的大厅都满了
618	with corpses of his consequences.	带着他的后果的尸体
619	The label of hero is not	英雄的标签不是
620	a moniker we give to the callous, nor	我们给冷酷无情的人一个莫尼克尔
621	is it a label we espouse to the rhetorical.	这是我们在夸夸其谈的标签。
622	To allow Mr. Churchill to	允许丘吉尔先生
623	stand in the hall of heroes is to	站在英雄的大厅
624	allow the putrid and sickening smell of	让你闻到恶心的味道
625	death to infect the memory	死亡感染记忆
626	of our civilization.	我们的文明。
627	There are heroes	这里有英雄
628	amongst us.	在我们中间
629	Let this intruder be banished	让这个入侵者被放逐
630	from our presence.	从我们的存在。
631	Thank you.	谢谢
632	Next, I would like to welcome Mr. Zia	接下来,我要欢迎齐亚先生。
633	Youssef for the proposition	尤瑟夫的命题
634	side.	侧面。
635	Good evening, everyone.	大家晚上好,我们走
636	I'm going to speak in favor of the motion	我赞成这个动议
637	that Winston Churchill is	温斯顿·丘吉尔是
638	a hero.	一个英雄。
639	So let's start by	所以,让我们开始
640	defining the term according to the	根据
641	Oxford dictionary.	牛津词典.
642	A hero is somebody who is admired	英雄就是受人钦佩的人
643	for their courage,	他们的勇气,
644	for their noble qualities, and their	他们的高尚品质和
645	outstanding achievement.	突出成就。
646	Not for	不是为
647	being perfect, not for being	完美,而不是因为自己
648	a saint, not for	一个圣人,不是因为
649	you know, moral purity	你知道,道德纯洁
650	decades after the event from people	事发数十年后
651	who scroll through their iPhones.	他们通过他们的iPhone滚动。
652	Ultimately, what this comes	归根结底,会怎样
653	down to is, Winston	归根结底,温斯顿
654	Churchill was probably the most	丘吉尔是最厉害的
655	courageous, inspirational Brit	勇敢,鼓舞人心的英国人
656	who ever lived.	谁曾经活着。
657	And, you know, this really	而且,你知道,这个真的
658	matters at this point in time.	此时此刻很重要。
659	Because in the decades since World	因为在世界之后的几十年里
660	War II, British people	二战,英国人民
661	have revered, indeed	确已赞颂真主,
662	admired Sir Winston Churchill.	钦佩温斯顿·丘吉尔爵士
663	His statue dominates	他的雕像占主导地位
664	Parliament Square.	议会广场.
665	And that matters because in	这很重要,因为
666	admiring Winston Churchill,	钦佩温斯顿·丘吉尔,
667	we are saying as a society	我们说作为一个社会
668	and as a nation that he	作为国家,他
669	embodies the qualities and the	体现品质和
670	virtues that we as a society	我们作为一个社会的美德
671	and as a nation aspire to.	和作为一个民族渴望的。
672	And that we as individuals	作为个人
673	in our own small way	以我们自己的小方式
674	may seek to emulate.	可能试图效仿。
675	So by turning our back on that	所以,通过我们的背弃
676	moral statement,	道德声明,
677	we're not simply reassessing a man,	我们不只是在重新评估一个人
678	we are repudiating an entire	我们正在否定一个整体
679	value system.	价值系统。
680	So this discussion we're having here tonight,	所以今晚我们在这里讨论
681	I know those are the jokes and a lot of fun,	我知道这些是笑话和很多乐趣,
682	but this is fundamental.	但这是根本的。
683	This isn't just academic,	这不仅仅是学术性的,
684	it's civilizational.	这是文明的。
685	So let's talk about the second part of that definition,	我们来谈谈定义的第二部分
686	courage.	勇敢点
687	Winston Churchill	温斯顿·丘吉尔
688	put it best, he said, courage	最好还是说勇气
689	is rightly esteemed to be the first	被誉为第一
690	of human qualities because it is the quality	人的品质,因为它是质量
691	that guarantees	保证
692	all others.	其他人都一样
693	He was spot on	他是现场
694	about that.	关于那个。
695	Throughout his	在他的整个
696	life, I mean, if you go through his	生活,我的意思是,如果你通过他
697	life, you know, you could create a feature	生命,你知道,你可以创造一个特色
698	film, but with	电影,但
699	every five years of his adult life.	每五年一次的成人生活。
700	But let's give a couple of examples.	但举数例.
701	Let's emphasize again the fact	让我们再次强调这个事实
702	on the 15th of November, 1899,	1899年11月15号,
703	a 25 year old war correspondent	25岁的战争记者
704	during the Boel War was captured	在布尔战争中被俘虏
705	and held as a	作为《京都议定书》
706	prisoner of war.	战俘。
707	Now that would have been the end	现在,这将是结束
708	of the story for	故事为
709	many people, lesser people.	很多人,少一点的人。
710	Not for Winston.	不为温斯顿。
711	In the depths of the night, he managed	在深夜,他设法
712	to escape and	逃跑和
713	you know, seemingly surrounded, seemingly	你知道,似乎被包围,似乎
714	with no way out.	没有出路。
715	He
716	would hide during the day, spend the nights	在白天躲起来,在晚上
717	scurrying through guards	穿梭在守卫中
718	and through gates.	穿过大门
719	He had virtually no money, he had no	他几乎没有钱,他没有
720	map, and yet he survived that	但是他活了下来
721	month and he did successfully	一个月,他做到了成功
722	escape.	逃脱。
723	Now that was at age 25, just	现在,那是在25岁,只是
724	a glimpse into the man that	直视那个人
725	he would eventually become.	他终究会变成这样
726	We can also talk about	我们也可以谈谈
727	sacrifice.	牺牲。
728	You know, during	你知道,期间
729	the Blitz campaign, let's fast forward a little	闪电战,快一点
730	bit, during the height of that German	在那个德国人的高度上
731	bombing campaign that devastated	轰炸行动
732	London in so many ways, but not in the most	伦敦在很多方面,但大多数方面
733	crucial way.	关键的方式。
734	Why?	为什么?
735	Because	因为
736	at the height of that campaign, Winston Churchill	在这场战役的高潮中,温斯顿·丘吉尔
737	got onto the roofs	上了屋顶
738	in London.	在伦敦
739	And as the air raid sirens	当空袭警笛响起
740	wailed and howled,	呐喊着,
741	as the city shook under	当城市震动时,
742	unimaginable terror,	难以想象的恐怖
743	his aides and his security	他的助手和保安
744	staff implored him	工作人员恳求他
745	to get off the roofs, said the	离开屋顶,说
746	Prime Minister, you cannot do this.	总理,你不能这么做
747	And he said, look, I'm not going to	他说,你看,我不会
748	make decisions as a leader that put	作为领导者作出决定
749	my people in mortal danger	我的人有生命危险
750	without sharing that	没有分享
751	danger with them.	危险与他们。
752	He felt	他觉得
753	it was critical and important	这是关键和重要的
754	that he was visible, resolute,	他确是显赫的,确是坚定的,
755	and exposed.	并暴露出来。
756	And by the way,	顺便说一句
757	what a contrast that is	何谓的对比
758	to Prime Ministers of recent years.	向近年来的总理致谢。
759	And, you know,	还有,你知道,
760	Winston Churchill also understood	温斯顿·丘吉尔也明白
761	that when he was talking about defending	当他谈论辩护时
762	Britain at all costs,	英国不惜一切代价
763	Britain, for him, was not simply a place	对于他来说,英国不仅仅是一个地方
764	on the map, not just a piece of territory.	在地图上,不只是一块领土。
765	It was a	这是一个
766	civilization.	人类文明
767	It represented	它代表
768	parliamentary democracy, the	议会民主
769	rule of law, equality	法治、平等
770	before that law, the	在该法律之前,
771	dignity of the individual.	个人尊严。
772	And	还有
773	in doing so,	为此,
774	he ensured that everybody understood	他确保每个人都明白
775	how important it was that Britain	英国有多重要?
776	stood firm, because for him,	站稳了,因为他
777	Nazism wasn't simply a military	纳粹主义不仅仅是一个军事
778	threat, it was a moral	威胁,这是道德
779	one.	一个
780	And more importantly,	更重要的是,
781	he inspired an entire nation	他鼓舞了整个国家
782	to share that	分享这一点
783	view.	视图。
784	And that's why he said	这就是为什么他说
785	when somebody asked, what is your aim,	当有人问起,你的目标是什么,
786	he said, victory.	他说,胜利。
787	Victory at all costs.	不惜一切代价获得胜利.
788	Victory	胜利
789	in spite of all terror.	尽管所有恐怖。
790	And you're probably very familiar with	你也许非常熟悉
791	Nietzsche's observation that	尼采认为
792	he who has a why can bear	谁能忍受,
793	almost	差点
794	any how.	随便怎么说
795	And	还有
796	that is what Churchill gave	这就是丘吉尔给的
797	the people of this country.	这个国家的人民。
798	That point about Britain being	英国是
799	a civilization worth defending	一个值得捍卫的文明
800	to the death, wherever that might	死亡,无论可能在哪里
801	be, was something he made	是,他制造的东西
802	people in this country believe	这个国家的人们相信
803	in their bones.	他们的骨头。
804	Now, again, that is	现在,再次,这是
805	hard for all of us to understand because	我们很难理解 因为
806	we haven't had political leadership	我们没有政治领导权
807	in this country for such a long	这个国家这么长时间
808	time.	时间。
809	And	还有
810	perhaps Winston	也许温斯顿
811	Churchill's most heroic quality	丘吉尔最英勇的品格
812	was the fact that he	事实是,他
813	made seemingly ordinary people	造就了看起来很普通的人
814	extraordinary.	非常特别
815	And you can read about this in the works	你可以在作品中读到这一点
816	of everyone from Nasim Taleb	纳西姆·塔莱布
817	to, you know, whichever	要,你知道,无论
818	academic, you know,	学术,你知道,
819	any academic you	任何学术你
820	might want to speak of who has spoken of	也许想谈谈是谁说的
821	the impact of or the lack	影响或缺失
822	of impact, for example, the Blitz	例如闪光灯
823	had on the UK.	在英国。
824	But in making	但是在制作中
825	ordinary people	普通民众
826	extraordinary, what he said, you know,	非常特别,他说,你知道,
827	the gambit, the pitch Winston	雄伟,投球 温斯顿
828	Churchill made to British people was not that you	丘吉尔给英国人做的不是你
829	are weak and I will save you,	我将拯救你,
830	but rather you	不过你
831	are strong and together	强壮在一起
832	we will endure.	我们会忍耐的
833	So, yes, he was flawed.	所以,是的,他是有缺陷的。
834	And sadly, at that time	可悲的是,当时
835	in human history, there was enormous suffering	在人类历史上, 有着巨大的痛苦
836	all over the world.	遍满世界.
837	But ultimately, he represents	但最终,他代表
838	something that is incredibly	令人难以置信的东西
839	precious and is indeed	珍贵而且确实
840	extraordinary and underpins	特别和基础
841	everything that is great	伟大的一切
842	about this country and indeed, by the way,	关于这个国家,事实上,顺便说一句,
843	this great institution.	这个伟大的机构。
844	No, thank you.	不 谢谢
845	And I will say this too, without	我也会说,没有
846	and I don't genuinely don't wish to be personal	我并不想成为个人
847	here because there is a growing	这里,因为有一个增长
848	movement around the world, sadly,	可悲的是, 世界各地的运动,
849	that attempts to try to	试图
850	tear down the legacy	拆掉遗产
851	of Sir Winston Churchill.	温斯顿·丘吉尔爵士
852	And I mean that sincerely.	我是认真的
853	This isn't personal	这不是私人恩怨
854	against anybody.	对任何人。
855	But	不过
856	ultimately, what does that	最终,这是什么
857	represent?	代表吗?
858	In my	在我身边
859	humble opinion, it represents an	谦卑的意见,它代表着
860	extraordinary ingratitude.	特别的忘恩负义。
861	It is standing on the shoulders of giants	它站在巨人的肩膀上
862	and calling yourself tall, but perhaps worse,	自称高,但也许更糟,
863	gathering a sense of unearned	收集一种未获得的感觉
864	moral superiority garnered	获得道德优越感
865	in a different era and	在一个不同的时代
866	from a totally different	和完全不同的东西
867	moral standard.	道德标准。
868	And in fact,	事实上,
869	the very discussions we are having	我们的讨论本身
870	this evening, as enjoyable	今晚,作为享受
871	and as articulate, by the way,	顺便说一句,
872	as the	作为
873	opposition are, would not have	反对是,不会有
874	been possible without not just the sacrifice	没有牺牲就有可能
875	of people like Sir Winston Churchill,	温斯顿·丘吉尔爵士
876	but of that entire generation.	但却是那一代人
877	And that is what is really	这才是真正的
878	important to remember.	记住很重要
879	You know,	你知道吗,
880	all of this, I want to reemphasize,	这一切,我想再次强调,
881	this is not just an academic	这不仅仅是一个学术
882	discussion.	讨论。
883	It is civilizational.	这是文明的。
884	It's going to be defining for	这将是定义
885	the next 100	下一个100
886	years of people.	数年的人。
887	In 100 years time,	在100年的时间里,
888	there will be people in this room and the things	房间里会有人,还有东西
889	that they say will depend on the	他们说这取决于
890	views of people like yourselves.	像你们这样的人的看法。
891	The reality is that	现实是
892	we have incredibly	我们有惊人的
893	difficult threats to deal	难以应对的威胁
894	with as a country today.	作为今天的国家。
895	We have threats abroad.	我们在国外有威胁。
896	My God, we have threats at home.	天啊 我们家里有威胁
897	And	还有
898	we will face those threats not with	我们将面对这些威胁
899	derision, cynicism	嘲弄、嘲讽
900	and self-loathing.	和自我厌恶。
901	We're going to face those	我们要面对那些
902	threats with the courage and	以勇气和勇气进行威胁
903	resolve and fortitude that Sir Winston Churchill	温斯顿·丘吉尔爵士的决心和毅力
904	displayed.	显示。
905	And, you know,	还有,你知道,
906	the spirit that got this country through	国家通过的精神
907	its darkest hour is not dead.	它最黑暗的时刻不是死。
908	It lives on in people like yourselves.	它生活在像你这样的人身上
909	Sir Winston Churchill	温斯顿·丘吉尔爵士
910	did embody	是否体现
911	those values	这些价值
912	and those qualities.	和这些品质。
913	And I think by any serious	我认为任何严肃的
914	definition of the term,	定义该术语,
915	he was and remains	他过去和现在
916	a hero.	一个英雄。
917	Thank you very much.	谢谢
918	Amazing.	厉害
919	Thank you, Mr. Yusuf, for your amazing	谢谢你,尤素福先生,你的惊人
920	speech.	说话
921	I would	我会
922	next like to invite Mr. Bharath Anantham	接下来请布哈拉特·阿南坦先生
923	to the floor.	倒
924	As we proceed through the inky blackness of judgment,	当我们在审判的黑暗中前进
925	let us not lose sight	让我们不要视而不见
926	of the light of justice.	正义之光
927	For she is tough but fair.	因为她很坚强但很公平
928	Lady Justice hears our excuses	女法官听到我们的借口
929	and calibrates for human frailties.	和适合人体虚弱的校准
930	But though she is blind,	虽然她是瞎子
931	she is not deaf.	她不是聋子。
932	She hears the screams	她听到尖叫声
933	of the starving, the tears	饥饿和泪水
934	of the dying and the cries	临终和哭泣者,
935	of the despairing.	在绝望中。
936	She wept	她哭着
937	with the children of Bengal and fought	与孟加拉儿童并肩作战
938	with the soldiers at Dunkirk.	在敦刻尔克的士兵。
939	It is not the place of this house to speak	这里不是我们家说话的地方
940	ill of the dead, but it is the place	死者的病,但这是地方
941	of this house to give judgment to	这所房子的判断
942	justice.	正义。
943	Churchill was many things, but a hero he was not.	丘吉尔有很多事 但他不是英雄
944	For a hero is not just one who did	因为英雄不仅仅是一个
945	good, but one who was good.	不错,但谁是好的。
946	And as the previous speaker says,	正如前一位发言者所说,
947	someone we should admire.	值得我们钦佩的人
948	We have proven conclusively that he was not.	我们已经确凿地证明他不是。
949	And maybe we might give him a coin for the sticks,	也许我们可以给他硬币用于棍子,
950	but we should not give him a penny	但我们不应该给他一分钱
951	for his plaudits.	给他的荣耀。
952	Reform UK	改革联合王国
953	have found their case woefully inadequate	发现他们的情况严重不足
954	to prove the demanding burden of the motion	证明动议的沉重负担
955	and their arguments do not stand up	他们的争论是站不住脚的,
956	to examination.	检查。
957	I'm sorry this isn't	对不起,这不是
958	too bad.	真遗憾
959	I'm going to do	我会的
960	three things in this speech.	此演说中三事.
961	First, I'm going	我先走了,我马上去
962	to respond to the main claim of proposition.	以回应命题的主要主张。
963	Next, I'm going to introduce a new	接下来,我要介绍一个新的
964	argument on the harms that the Churchill leadership did	关于丘吉尔领导人造成的伤害的论点
965	domestically.	在国内。
966	And finally, I'm going	终于,我走了
967	to prove why the arguments that we have given	证明为什么我们给出的论点
968	prove conclusively why this is not heroism.	最终证明为什么这不是英雄主义。
969	First, probably	首先,也许
970	the strongest argument that you've heard from these two speakers	你从这两位演说家那里听到的最强烈的争论
971	is that Winston Churchill was a hero	温斯顿·丘吉尔是个英雄
972	because of his role and his courage in the	因为他的作用和勇气
973	Second World War.	第二次世界大战.
974	But this narrative	但是这个故事
975	relies on a simplified and selective	依靠简化和选择性
976	memory of history.	历史记忆。
977	One flattened into	一个扁平
978	sound bites, narrowed by repetition,	声音叮咬,通过重复缩小,
979	polished by eight decades of myth-making	被八十年的神话所粉碎
980	and Hollywood dramatization.	和好莱坞戏剧化。
981	It is not the full story, and	这不是完整的故事,和
982	it is not an honest one.	这不是一个诚实的。
983	There	那边
984	are several reasons why this argument does not stand up	这是这个论点站不住脚的几个原因
985	to scrutiny.	检查。
986	First, the continuation	第一,继续
987	of the war did not hinge on Churchill	战争并不取决于丘吉尔
988	as an individual.	作为个人。
989	Within the war cabinet	战争内阁内部
990	itself, the decision to fight on commanded	自己,战斗的决定 命令
991	broad cross-party support.	广泛的跨党派支持。
992	Clement	克莱门特
993	Atlee and Arthur Greenwood of Labour voted	阿特莉和亚瑟・格林伍德的劳工投票
994	for continuation.	继续
995	Archibald Sinclair of	阿奇博尔德·辛克莱
996	the Liberal Party voted for continuation.	自由党投票决定继续执政.
997	Neville Chamberlain, after he resigned as PM,	内维尔·张伯伦辞去首相职务后
998	supported continuation instead of	支持继续而不是
999	Lord Halifax's proposal for peace talks.	哈利法克斯勋爵提出的和谈建议.
1000	Proposition would have you think that	提案会让你觉得
1001	Churchill's charismatic personality	丘吉尔的魅力人格
1002	changed minds and motivated everyone to fight	改变思想,激励大家战斗
1003	on.	继续
1004	But the causal arrow runs the	但因果箭头在运行
1005	other way.	别的
1006	It was because Labour	是因为工党
1007	were already committed to fighting on that they chose	已经承诺在他们选择的
1008	to work under Churchill rather than any	在丘吉尔下工作,而不是任何
1009	other conservative leader.	其他保守派领袖。
1010	The best version of the proposition case is that	提议案的最好版本是
1011	the decision to continue the war makes Churchill a hero	决定继续战争 让丘吉尔成为英雄
1012	because it was a courageous and morally significant	因为它是一个勇敢和道德意义
1013	choice.	选择。
1014	But any war cabinet	但任何战争内阁
1015	independent of Churchill would have made	与丘吉尔无关
1016	this decision because the British people	因为英国人民
1017	at the time were strongly pro-war.	当时是强烈支持战争的。
1018	They had just seen the German army murder	他们刚刚看到德国军队的谋杀
1019	60,000 civilians in Poland.	波兰6万平民.
1020	They'd seen the newsreels of burning buildings.	他们看到了燃烧建筑的新闻片
1021	They had sent their sons to die	他们派儿子去送死
1022	defending France.	保卫法国
1023	The atrocities	暴行
1024	in Europe did not make the British people	在欧洲,没有使英国人民
1025	scared but it made their resolve	吓坏了,但是他们下定决心了
1026	stronger.	更强。
1027	This team would have	这个团队会
1028	you believe that a couple of admittedly	你相信,夫妇承认
1029	really cool, really rhetorical speeches	真的很酷,真的修辞
1030	changed the minds of the people who were already	改变人们的心思 已经
1031	united against a common enemy who had	联合起来对付共同的敌人
1032	already sent their sons to defend Europe.	已经派他们的儿子去保卫欧洲
1033	We are taught to hear Churchill's	教会我们听丘吉尔的
1034	speeches as sparks that ignited national	演说作为点燃全国的火花
1035	will.	会的
1036	But sparks only matter when	但只有当
1037	there is no fire and in 1940	没有火,1940年
1038	Britain was already burning.	英国已经在燃烧。
1039	Even if you ignore this, most	即使你无视这一点,大多数
1040	of the underlying conditions that led to allied victory	导致盟军获胜的基本条件
1041	in Europe have been independent of Churchill.	欧洲一直独立于丘吉尔。
1042	He was turned down numerous times by the	他被多次拒绝
1043	US.	美国。
1044	It was Pearl Harbor and not persuasion	是珍珠港,不是劝说
1045	that brought them into the war.	让他们陷入战争
1046	Hitler probably attacks	希特勒可能攻击
1047	the Soviet Union regardless of who is in charge	苏联,无论谁负责
1048	of Britain.	英国
1049	Importantly, he was	重要的是,他是
1050	not alone in wanting to fight on.	不只是想要继续战斗
1051	Everyone in British policy making	英国决策中的每个人
1052	{\fn黑体\fs20\shad2\2aH82\3aH20\4aH33\fscx95\3cH592001\be1}我明白 贪婪的胃口
1053	of the Nazi regime would not be sated	纳粹政权的统治是不会结束的
1054	by continental Europe and they could not have	他们不可能拥有
1055	time to consolidate their gains.	是时候巩固他们的成果了
1056	They were	他们是
1057	even clear, selfish interests to continue	更清楚 自私 继续
1058	the war, to be part of the post-war settlement	战争,成为战后解决方案的一部分
1059	dividing up Europe and the colonies.	瓜分欧洲和殖民地.
1060	Yes, getting bombed is scary	是的,被轰炸是可怕的
1061	but there was no question that continuing	但毫无疑问的是,
1062	the war was in the clear national	战争在明清时期
1063	interest.	利息
1064	Now I know Reform UK might	现在我知道英国改革可能
1065	not care that much about the clear national interest	根本不在乎明确的国家利益
1066	but the people of the time did.	但当时的民众确实如此。
1067	That is why	这就是为什么
1068	Atlee and Greenwood and Chamberlain	阿特里和格林伍德和张伯伦
1069	voted to continue the war, even	投票决定继续战争
1070	independent of Churchill.	独立于丘吉尔。
1071	All	全体
1072	of this is to say that if there was heroism	如果有英雄主义的话
1073	found in 1940, it was not	在1940年发现,它不是
1074	found in the safety of Whitehall, in the bunkers	在怀特霍尔的安全, 在掩体中发现的
1075	of the war rooms and climbing up onto a	然后爬上战场
1076	roof of five minutes one day out of	5分钟的屋顶 一天出
1077	365.	365 (英语).
1078	The heroism in	英雄主义
1079	1940 was found in the foxholes	1940年在狐狸洞被发现
1080	of Calais, on the beaches of Dunkirk	在敦刻尔克的海滩上
1081	and in burning skies above the channel	在沸腾的天空中,
1082	not in the safety of Whitehall.	不是在白厅的安全。
1083	My second broad response to this argument is that	我对这一论点的第二个广泛答复是:
1084	Churchill handled the war actually quite poorly	丘吉尔对战争的处理非常糟糕
1085	in many regards, not because of folly	在许多方面,不是因为愚蠢
1086	but sheer arrogance.	却很傲慢
1087	I will point to three	我要指出三个
1088	examples.	实例。
1089	First, as Lord of the	首先,作为上帝
1090	Admiralty, Churchill pushed relentlessly	海军上将,丘吉尔无情推进
1091	for the deployment of British forces to Norway	在挪威部署英国部队
1092	to counter the initial offensive there, despite	对抗最初的进攻,尽管
1093	serious and well-founded opposition from	严重和有根据的反对
1094	senior commanders.	高级指挥官。
1095	Possessed by	拥有者
1096	unshakable faith in the Royal Navy,	对皇家海军的坚定信念
1097	Churchill was obsessed with the idea of a decisive	丘吉尔沉迷于一个决定性的想法
1098	naval landing, especially because Swedish	特别是因为瑞典语
1099	iron ore was being passed through Norwegian	铁矿石通过挪威
1100	ports.	端口。
1101	The result was not strategic	结果不是战略性的
1102	brilliance but catastrophe.	聪明但灾难。
1103	British troops	英国部队
1104	were exposed, massacred, effectively	被暴露,屠杀, 有效
1105	destroyed and crucial attention and	和重要关注,
1106	resources were shifted away from the German invasion	资源从德国入侵转移
1107	of France merely weeks later.	仅仅几周后法国就结束了。
1108	Fixation hardened into bad decisions	固执到坏决定
1109	and that hardened into mass graves.	和坚硬的坟墓。
1110	Secondly, Churchill pushed for the	第二,丘吉尔推动
1111	continued deployment of the British Expeditionary Force	继续部署英国远征部队
1112	even when he was told that it was a lost cause.	即使有人告诉他这是个失败的事业
1113	Two weeks before Dunkirk, he was	在敦刻尔克两周前,他
1114	still shipping troops in across the	仍然运兵过马路
1115	channel, who were lost when the HMS	频道,HMS时丢失的频道
1116	Lancaster sank, killing 3,500	兰开斯特沉没,死亡3 500人
1117	soldiers.	士兵们
1118	Hollywood falsely	好莱坞假的
1119	gave the credit for Admiral	给将军的功劳
1120	Ramsey's Dunkirk decision to the Gary Oldman	拉姆齐对盖瑞·奥德曼的决定
1121	version of Churchill, but the real version	丘吉尔版本,但真实版本
1122	of Churchill was very much responsible for	丘吉尔对此非常负责
1123	most of the British army being stranded when France	大部分英国军队被困在法国
1124	fell.	掉下来了
1125	Deciding to fight on	决定继续战斗
1126	stops being courageous and heroic when your	停止勇敢和英勇 当你
1127	every decision is to fight.	每一个决定都是战斗
1128	As with Norway, obsession blinded	和挪威一样,痴迷盲了
1129	command and arrogance did the	命令和自负
1130	killing.	杀人
1131	The final set of examples	最后一组实例
1132	is the one I find personally most difficult	是我个人最难找到的
1133	to speak about because if this house credits	说因为如果这房子的信用
1134	Churchill with liberating Europe, they must also	丘吉尔解放了欧洲 他们也必须
1135	reckon with his responsibility for the collapse	考虑一下他对于崩溃的责任
1136	of British power in Asia.	英国在亚洲的权力。
1137	His racist underestimation of the Japanese	他对日本人的种族主义低估
1138	was matched only by his uncritical	他的不批判性
1139	faith in the glory of empire.	相信帝国的荣耀
1140	The fortifications in Singapore, for example,	例如新加坡的防御工事,
1141	faced completely the wrong way because it was thought	面对完全错误的方式,因为它被思考
1142	that the Japanese could not possibly get through the	日本人不可能通过
1143	Malaysian jungle.	马来西亚丛林.
1144	The peninsula was left undefended	半岛无人防守
1145	because they thought the Japanese couldn't pass tanks	因为日本人不能通过坦克
1146	through and the Japanese killed them on bicycles.	和日本人用自行车杀死他们。
1147	You might ask, why is any	你可能会问, 为什么是任何
1148	of this Churchill's fault?	丘吉尔的错?
1149	But if there is any	但是如果有的话
1150	doubt about responsibility and where it lay,	怀疑责任和责任所在
1151	Churchill himself removed that doubt when	丘吉尔本人消除了这种怀疑 当
1152	after the war he said that he personally	战后,他说他个人
1153	should have ensured Singapore's defences	应保证新加坡的防卫
1154	given his particular interest in the naval base	鉴于他对海军基地特别感兴趣
1155	there in the interwar period.	在战争期间
1156	He wrote	他写道
1157	and I quote, the possibility	我引用,这个可能性
1158	of Singapore having no landward defences	新加坡没有陆上防御工事
1159	no more entered my mind than launching a	我脑海里只有发射一个
1160	battleship without a bottom.	没有底部的战舰.
1161	Responsibility	责任
1162	does not get much clearer than that.	没有比这更清楚。
1163	And to the previous speaker, do not tell me	对前一位发言者,不要告诉我
1164	I wouldn't be here without Churchill.	没有丘吉尔,我不会在这里。
1165	I was from	我是从
1166	Singapore and my grandparents were abandoned	新加坡和我的祖父母被抛弃了
1167	by the Churchill administration.	由丘吉尔政府负责
1168	The most damning moment came when Singapore	最令人发指的时刻到了,新加坡
1169	was in the brink of collapse with British command	在英国指挥下濒临崩溃
1170	crying out for help.	呼求救护.
1171	Churchill's ego	丘吉尔的自负
1172	showed no understanding of modern warfare	对现代战争毫无了解
1173	despite seeing the damage of Pearl Harbor	尽管看到珍珠港受损
1174	and literally having lived through the Blitz	并活在闪电中
1175	he dispatched the HMS	他派出了HMS
1176	Repulse and HMS Prince of Wales with	退职和威尔士亲王殿下
1177	no air cover against the strength of the	没有空中掩护 与强度
1178	Japanese air power.	日本航空动力.
1179	Whether this decision	是否决定
1180	sprang from blind faith in the Royal Navy	从对皇家海军的盲目信仰中涌现出来
1181	or the racial contempt Churchill had for	或者丘吉尔对种族蔑视
1182	Asians saying and I quote, I hate	亚洲人说,我引用, 我讨厌
1183	people with slit eyes and pigtails, the result	眼睛和尾巴被割开的人,结果
1184	was the same.	一样
1185	It was not heroism	这不是英雄主义
1186	it was disaster.	这是灾难。
1187	Both	两者
1188	vessels were predictably sunk by aircraft	预计船只被飞机击沉
1189	before they reached Singapore.	在他们到达新加坡之前
1190	Churchill's	丘吉尔的
1191	grand vision of battleships sailing into the	伟大的愿景 战列舰驶入
1192	harbor singing Britannia rules the waves	海边唱着不列颠风波
1193	turned into the sickening reality of 800	变成了令人厌恶的现实 800
1194	Tommy boys ripped to shrapnel	汤米男孩撕成碎片
1195	and choking on oil in the black of the night	在黑夜里,在油中窒息着,
1196	as they slipped beneath the waves	在波涛下滑倒
1197	even if proposition ignores every argument	即使命题忽略了每一个论据
1198	beyond the Second World War as this team	在第二次世界大战之后 作为这个团队
1199	wants you to do.	想要你这样做。
1200	It cannot escape	它无法逃脱
1201	this conclusion.	这一结论。
1202	Churchill's decision	丘吉尔的决定
1203	repeatedly consigned genuine heroes	屡次派遣真正的英雄
1204	to an unnecessary death.	至不必要的死亡。
1205	What is	这是什么
1206	praised as courage is in truth a single	被赞颂为勇气 说实话,只有一个人
1207	minded obsession with imperial conflict.	沉迷于帝国主义冲突
1208	This is not heroism, it is hard headed	这不是英雄主义,这是很难的
1209	warmongering.	战争
1210	I am now going to present	我现在介绍
1211	a second set of arguments to oppose the motion	第二组反对动议的理由
1212	just in case this team however	不过以防这个团队
1213	ironically wants to paint us as	讽刺的是,想把我们描绘成
1214	bitter immigrants from Singapore and India	新加坡和印度的苦力移民
1215	who came here to rail against British colonialism.	他是来反抗英国殖民主义的
1216	The impact of the Churchill administration	丘吉尔政府的影响
1217	was felt at home.	被感觉在家里。
1218	The first	第一个
1219	such instance was when Churchill as Home	当丘吉尔成为家时
1220	Secretary ordered troops into Tony Pandy	秘书命令部队进入托尼潘迪
1221	in 1910 to suppress the strikes	在1910年镇压罢工
1222	of Welsh miners.	威尔士矿工。
1223	These were not foreign	这些不是外国的
1224	enemies, they were British workers protesting	敌人,他们是英国工人抗议
1225	against dangerous conditions and starvation	消除危险和饥饿
1226	wages and instead of arriving as a	工资,而不是作为
1227	mediator Churchill dispatched troops	丘吉尔调解人派遣部队
1228	who could use deadly force and ultimately	他们可以使用致命的武力,并最终
1229	succeeded in their repression.	成功镇压了他们。
1230	As Home Secretary	作为内政大臣
1231	his conduct was not only immoral	他的行为不仅不道德
1232	it was disproportionate, forcing	这是不相称的,强迫的
1233	citizens whose only crime was collective	唯一的罪行是集体的
1234	bargaining to face down the barrel of	讨价还价 面对的桶
1235	bayonets.	刺刀(原变种).
1236	The proposition may argue that this	这个提议可能认为
1237	was necessary to prevent violence or	防止暴力或
1238	Churchill didn't really want violence to happen	丘吉尔并不想发生暴力
1239	but this defence collapses when you observe	但当你们观察时,防御系统会崩溃
1240	the pattern.	这个模式。
1241	A year later he	一年之后,他又来了
1242	again deployed troops to Liverpool to put down	重新部署部队到利物浦放下
1243	the transport worker strikes, at this time	运输工人罢工,此时此刻
1244	with permanent consequences.	会有永久的后果。
1245	Too many in their twenties were murdered when	20多岁的人被谋杀了
1246	Churchill's troops opened fire into the crowd.	丘吉尔的部队向人群开火.
1247	The blood on his hands did not	他手上的血没有
1248	deter his trigger finger because in	阻止他的扳机手指,因为
1249	1919 he sent tanks and some 10,000	1919年他派了坦克和大约一万辆
1250	troops to Glasgow to again put	驻格拉斯哥部队再次部署
1251	down the Union strikes on the basis that it was	联邦罢工的理由是
1252	supposedly a Bolshevik revolt.	应该是布尔什维克的叛乱
1253	It was like proposition says	这就像命题说
1254	that Churchill fought for freedom and democracy	丘吉尔为自由和民主而战
1255	but it's clear that the only thing he was interested	但很明显他唯一感兴趣的是
1256	in was the fight, not freedom and	战斗,不是自由
1257	not democracy.	而不是民主主义。
1258	Second,	第二,我们...
1259	while much has been said, strangely	虽然说了很多,奇怪的是
1260	from both teams, about Churchill's racial	从两队, 关于丘吉尔的种族
1261	attitudes towards colonised people, it is	对殖民者的态度,这是
1262	necessary to confront his views on women	有必要面对他对妇女的看法
1263	because he was not a supporter of women's suffrage	因为他不是女性选举权的支持者
1264	writing that women were, and I quote,	写到女人,我引用
1265	well represented by their fathers,	他们的父亲们,
1266	brothers and husbands.	兄长和丈夫
1267	And no,	没有,
1268	this was not just him being a product of his	这不仅仅是他的产物
1269	time because other British political figures	因为其他英国政治人物
1270	at the time were far more progressive on the issue	当时,这个问题的进展要大得多。
1271	of women's suffrage.	妇女选举权。
1272	This also applies to	这也适用于
1273	other arguments as well.	还有其他论点。
1274	Churchill	丘吉尔
1275	at the time was not, his racism	当时不是 他的种族主义
1276	was not typical.	这不是典型的。
1277	It was extreme.	这是极端的。
1278	He was criticised in Parliament for commenting	他被议会批评评论
1279	on indigenous people being replaced by the	关于土著人民被
1280	higher grade race of the British.	英国人高年级的比赛
1281	If Churchill is considered a hero for	如果丘吉尔被认为是英雄
1282	protecting democracy, you need to ask	保护民主,你需要问
1283	democracy for who?	民主为谁服务?
1284	Because it certainly	因为当然
1285	wasn't everyone in Churchill's world.	不是丘吉尔的世界里的每一个人
1286	Finally, and most egregiously,	最后,最令人发指的是,
1287	we must confront his	我们必须面对他
1288	role in sending the black and tans to Ireland	黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑
1289	during the War of Independence.	在独立战争期间。
1290	These groups	这些团体
1291	had a reputation of excessive violence and	拥有过度暴力的声誉
1292	Churchill knew it.	丘吉尔知道
1293	He deliberately	他故意这样
1294	chose to ignore the cries for help from	选择忽略请求帮助的呼声
1295	terrorised civilian populations, refused	恐吓平民,拒绝
1296	calls to stand down the black and tans and even	黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑黑
1297	wanted to dispatch air power to Ireland.	想要向爱尔兰发送空中电力
1298	The consequences on this of the	由此而来的后果
1299	civilian population are too numerous and	平民人口太多,而且
1300	too graphic for me to name.	画的太像了
1301	The black	那个黑人
1302	and tans conducted reprisal, arbitrary	棕褐色进行报复,任意
1303	killing of non-combatants.	杀害非战斗人员。
1304	They burned homes.	他们烧毁了房屋。
1305	They sieged villages to cut off their food	他们包围村庄,切断食物
1306	supply.	供应。
1307	They accused the murdering	他们指控谋杀
1308	dozens of people, including a priest whose	数十人,包括一位牧师
1309	body was found dumped in a bog days	尸体被发现在沼泽的日子里被丢弃
1310	later.	等会
1311	The violence became so extreme	暴力变得如此极端
1312	that it wasn't just opposition from Parliament,	不仅仅是议会的反对,
1313	it was opposition from the King as well.	也是国王的反对
1314	Churchill likes to speak of the darkest	丘吉尔喜欢说最黑暗的
1315	hour, but the darkest hour for the	一小时,但最黑暗的时刻
1316	civilians of Ireland was not a speech.	爱尔兰平民并不是一个演讲。
1317	It was the reality of the years they spent	那是他们度过的岁月的现实
1318	living under the terror of the troops that Churchill	生活在丘吉尔部队的恐怖之下
1319	sent to repress them.	派去镇压他们
1320	He made	他创造了
1321	it a wasteland and he called it peace.	这是一片荒地 他称之为和平
1322	These are not isolated mistakes.	这不是孤立的错误。
1323	They form a pattern.	它们形成了一种模式。
1324	Whenever he was confronted with demands	每当他遇到要求时
1325	for dignity from workers, from women,	从工人、妇女、
1326	from colonised people, Churchill responded	来自殖民者的丘吉尔回应
1327	with force.	以强力.
1328	It was the obsession with violence	这是对暴力的痴迷
1329	that led Churchill to send hundreds of	导致丘吉尔送来了数百人
1330	thousands of allied troops to their futile	成千上万的盟军 徒劳无功
1331	slaughter at Gallipoli and ultimately led	在加利波利的屠杀 并最终领导
1332	to him being voted out in the 1945	1945年被淘汰给他
1333	election when he wanted to continue confrontation.	当他想要继续对抗时
1334	If the people who lived through the	如果那些活在
1335	war wanted to throw him out immediately after,	战争之后就想把他赶出去
1336	clearly they didn't believe that he was	显然他们不相信他是
1337	a hero at all.	是个英雄
1338	The final	决赛
1339	question I want to address is how everything	我想谈的一个问题是,一切如何
1340	we have said bears on the idea of heroism	我们说过 英雄主义的想法
1341	itself.	它本身。
1342	Let me be clear.	让我说清楚
1343	We are not saying that Churchill was a villain.	我们不是说丘吉尔是个坏人
1344	We are not saying he didn't do good.	我们不是说他没有做好事
1345	We are not saying	我们不是说
1346	he didn't rise to the occasion in a time of	他没有在那个时候站起来
1347	crisis.	危机。
1348	But heroism, as Tanuj rightly	但英雄主义,正如塔努杰正确
1349	frames, carries a very demanding	框,带一个非常苛刻的
1350	moral burden.	道德负担。
1351	So if you walk out	所以如果你走出来
1352	of here thinking that Churchill was a complicated man,	认为丘吉尔是个复杂的人
1353	that his legacy was complex, that he was	他的遗产是复杂的,他是
1354	flawed, that even he might have been a hero to some	错误的,即使他 可能已经是一个英雄 一些
1355	groups of people, that is not a sufficient	这还不够
1356	condition for you to vote for the proposition	投票支持提案的条件
1357	because complexity is not heroism.	因为复杂不是英雄主义
1358	Admiration from some does	有些人的赞美
1359	not entitle anyone to the exemption	不赋予任何人豁免的权利
1360	of moral examination.	道德检查。
1361	We simply	我们只是
1362	cannot excuse grave wrongdoing	不能为严重错误辩护
1363	on the basis of good, especially when	在良好的基础上,特别是当
1364	the same authority he did, he used to do that	和他一样,他曾经这么做
1365	good, was used to do the	好,是用来做
1366	wrongdoing.	错失行为
1367	I think that we think that some	我认为,我们认为一些
1368	things are not redeemable.	事情是无法挽回的。
1369	If Keir Starmer	如果凯尔·斯塔默
1370	won the war in Ukraine, but millions	赢得了乌克兰的战争,但数百万
1371	of people in the UK back home starved, I don't	英国人饿死,我不饿
1372	think any of you will consider him a hero.	你们谁都认为他是英雄
1373	By Zia's metric, Hitler could be considered	根据齐亚的衡量标准,可以考虑希特勒
1374	a hero because he was very courageous in fighting for	一个英雄 因为他非常勇敢地为
1375	what he believed in.	他所信仰的东西
1376	Clearly, this is not	显然,这不是
1377	sufficient for someone to be a hero.	足以成为英雄
1378	If that isn't enough to convince you, there	如果这还不足以说服你,就在那里
1379	are strong second order reasons for you to vote for	这是你投票支持的第二大理由
1380	the opposition.	反对派。
1381	What should we	怎么办?
1382	demand of our heroes?	我们的英雄的要求?
1383	What should we	怎么办?
1384	teach our children what values to admire	教我们的孩子欣赏什么价值
1385	and emulate?	你应当效法我,
1386	Should our predominant	如果我们的主要
1387	image of the genuine British heroism	真正的英国英雄形象
1388	in World War II be this deeply	在二战中... ...
1389	flawed and complicated man, or the	有缺陷和复杂的人,或者
1390	actual heroes like Douglas Bader,	像道格拉斯·巴德这样的英雄
1391	Ailin Nan, Lakshman Gurung, and the millions of imperial	爱林南,拉克什曼古龙 和百万帝国主义者
1392	conscripts who laid down their lives	牺牲生命的应征者
1393	to protect this continent?	保护这个大陆?
1394	This	这个
1395	motion does not just call on us to make	动议不只是要求我们做
1396	a descriptive judgement, but a prescriptive	说明性判断,但规定
1397	one on what we want from our heroes,	我们想从英雄那里得到什么
1398	who we should worship, whose statue	我们应该崇拜谁,谁的雕像
1399	should be in Parliament.	应该是在议会。
1400	And we argue	我们争吵
1401	that a hero is not someone who wins	英雄不是赢家
1402	history.	历史
1403	A hero is someone who refuses	英雄就是拒绝的人
1404	to lose his humanity while doing it.	在做的时候失去他的人性
1405	To the arguments that Tanush has presented,	对于塔努什提出的论据,
1406	we got feeble excuses and deafening	我们得到了软弱的借口 耳聋
1407	silence.	安静
1408	We agree this debate	我们同意这次辩论
1409	is not all academic.	不是所有的学术。
1410	Anyone voting proposition has to walk	任何投票提案都要步行
1411	out of here and carry with them the weight	离开这儿,带着重物
1412	of the innocents repressed in Wales and	在威尔士被镇压的无辜者
1413	Ireland, the soldiers sent to their deaths	爱尔兰,士兵送他们去死
1414	in Gallipoli and Singapore, the children	在加里波利和新加坡,孩子们
1415	that were starved in Bengal.	那些在孟加拉挨饿的人
1416	And we know that the lightest body bags	我们知道最轻的袋子
1417	are always the hardest to carry.	总是最难携带。
1418	I end with an adaptation of words	我最后要改个词
1419	from poets far more gifted than I am.	来自诗人的天赋比我还高
1420	Like Ozymandias, Churchill	像奥兹曼迪亚斯,丘吉尔
1421	demanded admiration.	需要钦佩
1422	Like Ordon's rulers,	像奥登的统治者一样
1423	his power reduced lives to abstractions.	他的力量使生命沦为抽象
1424	Like Byron's anti-hero,	像拜伦的反英雄,
1425	he mistook force for virtue.	他把武力误认为是美德。
1426	None	无
1427	of this is heroism.	这是英雄主义
1428	Muthachar,	穆沙查尔,
1429	I hope you're proud of me.	我希望你为我骄傲
1430	I'm so proud to oppose.	我非常自豪地反对。
1431	Before we move on to the final two speeches,	在我们开始最后两场演讲之前
1432	I would like to invite some	我想邀请一些
1433	members from the audience to deliver	来自听众的成员
1434	floor speeches.	地板演讲。
1435	Is there anyone	有没有人
1436	for a proposition?	为了一个提议?
1437	The member at the front.	成员在前面。
1438	I feel as though this may be the only	我觉得这也许是唯一的
1439	country, except perhaps Germany, which	国家,也许德国除外
1440	views self-hatred and self-criticism	自我仇恨和自我批评
1441	as sort of a virtue.	作为一种美德。
1442	It seems	看起来
1443	really bizarre to me, this attitude	这态度对我来说很奇怪
1444	of whenever a Brit rises	当英国人崛起时
1445	to greatness, whenever a Brit achieves	当一个英国人达到
1446	something that really exceeds and	真正超过,
1447	demonstrates our values,	证明我们的价值观,
1448	we feel the need to perpetually criticise and poke holes	我们觉得需要永远批评和戳孔
1449	and find issues.	找到问题
1450	Yes, Churchill was not	是的,丘吉尔不是
1451	a perfect person, but it was said by	一个完美的人, 但它是说,
1452	the previous speaker that	上一位发言者指出,
1453	complexity does not make heroism.	复杂性不会造成英雄主义。
1454	I think that's an absurd thing to say.	我觉得这话太荒谬了
1455	Some of the greatest heroes in history were	历史上最伟大的英雄
1456	complex, flawed people who ended up doing	复杂,有缺陷的人 最终做
1457	amazing, great things.	惊人的,伟大的东西。
1458	Now, what	现在,什么
1459	are we as a country?	我们是国家吗?
1460	Are we a	我们是一个
1461	bunch of economic units?	一堆经济单位?
1462	Are we just	我们只是
1463	a wet rock in the water?	水里一块湿石头?
1464	Or are we	还是我们
1465	a people with values, beliefs	有价值观和信仰的民族
1466	and convictions?	和定罪?
1467	And if we are the latter,	如果我们是后者,
1468	I believe that Churchill was one of the	我相信丘吉尔是
1469	best and greatest examples of someone who	最佳和最伟大的例子
1470	demonstrates those convictions and those	证明这些定罪和
1471	values.	数值。
1472	So despite his flaws, despite	所以尽管他的缺点,尽管
1473	the mistakes that were made at the time	当时所犯的错误
1474	based on the information that was available, despite	根据现有资料,尽管
1475	the fact that when you are a leader, you	当你成为领袖时
1476	have immense responsibility and the highs	责任重大,责任重大
1477	are immensely high and the lows are immensely	高得惊人,低得惊人
1478	low and when you're in war, you cannot be	低,当你在战争中,你不能
1479	perfect.	完美无缺
1480	Despite that, I think that he	虽然如此,我觉得他
1481	represents our values, our beliefs	代表我们的价值观和信仰
1482	and who we are as Britain, better	和谁是英国,更好
1483	than almost anyone in history and for that reason	比历史上几乎任何人 也因为这个原因
1484	I believe that Winston Churchill is a hero.	我相信温斯顿·丘吉尔是个英雄
1485	Thank you.	谢谢
1486	I would like to call one	我想打电话给一个
1487	speaker for side opposition.	副反对者发言。
1488	Yes.	对
1489	Madam President,	主席女士,
1490	Winston Churchill was not a good man.	温斯顿·丘吉尔不是一个好人。
1491	He was not a hero.	他不是一个英雄。
1492	He
1493	was a racist.	是个种族主义者。
1494	He was an imperialist	他是个帝国主义者
1495	and he was a mass murderer.	他是个杀人狂
1496	Now, I'm not going to make that case	现在,我不会说出这个理由
1497	for you all because there are three excellent people	因为你们有三个优秀的人
1498	who have already made it or who will make it	谁已经做了,谁会做它
1499	for you.	给你的
1500	But listening	但是听着
1501	to this debate reminds	对本次辩论的提醒
1502	me of a book,	我的书,
1503	of a poem	一首诗
1504	that I really love, Paradise	我真的很喜欢,天堂
1505	Lost by John Milton, which many of you	被约翰·米尔顿迷路了,你们很多人
1506	will have read.	将会阅读。
1507	And I think particularly to book	我特别想订书
1508	11 of Paradise Lost,	"失乐园11"
1509	when after Eve has eaten	当夏娃吃饭之后,
1510	the forbidden fruit,	禁果,
1511	the archangel Michael comes down	大天使迈克尔下来了
1512	and he gives Adam and Eve a chastising	他使阿丹和夏娃受刑罚,
1513	and he gives them a vision	他以一个视觉昭示他们,
1514	of the future and he talks about the events	未来,他谈论事件
1515	that will occur on this planet.	这将会发生在这个星球上
1516	And there's a particular segment where he talks	还有一段他说话的地方
1517	about the great men of history,	关于历史的伟人,
1518	of Alexander,	亚历山大
1519	of Caesar, and of their	凯撒和他们的
1520	judgment in the sight of God.	审判在上帝的眼前。
1521	And it's that passage that I'd like to read	我想读的那段
1522	out to you.	出来给你。
1523	Before glory done	在荣耀完成之前
1524	of triumph to be styled great conquerors,	以伟大的征服者发誓,
1525	patrons of mankind,	人类的保佑者,
1526	gods and	众神和
1527	sons of gods,	众神的儿子,
1528	destroyers rightly are called,	驱逐舰被正确称为,
1529	and plagues of men.	和人类的灾祸。
1530	Thank you.	谢谢
1531	Next I would like to call on Ms. Cunningham to deliver	接下来我请坎宁安女士发言
1532	her speech for side proposition.	她的副提议演讲
1533	Madam President, ladies and	总统女士,女士们
1534	gentlemen, if this debate is	先生们 如果这次辩论
1535	one on how many words are spoken per minute,	一分钟说几句话,
1536	then I concede defeat to the opposition.	然后我向反对派承认失败
1537	Despite going to Oxford,	尽管去牛津,
1538	he doesn't seem to understand	他好像没明白
1539	the amplifying capabilities	扩大能力
1540	of a microphone.	麦克风。
1541	I didn't go to	我没有去
1542	Oxford.	牛津大学.
1543	I didn't quite make it.	我没来得及
1544	I didn't read books and as the Oppen said,	我没有看书,正如奥本所说,
1545	I spent time doing slam dunks.	我花了很长时间来打篮球
1546	So I don't come with	所以我不跟你们走
1547	facts, I don't come with dates,	事实,我不带日期,
1548	and I don't come with poetry.	我不带诗来
1549	As a politician I come with rhetoric.	作为一个政治家,我带着修辞而来。
1550	And I'll tell you this, some men	告诉你,一些男人
1551	write history, right?	写历史,对不对?
1552	Some men survive history,	有些男人在历史中幸存下来
1553	some lucky men get to read	有些幸运的人会读书
1554	history.	历史
1555	Churchill	丘吉尔
1556	bent history to his will, and that's	将历史归结于他的意志,这就是
1557	why we're free here to nitpick him	为什么我们在这里自由选择他
1558	tonight.	今晚见
1559	He was no	他没有
1560	armchair, no thanks, not right now, he was	手椅,不,谢谢,现在不是,他是
1561	no armchair patriot like	没有爱国者喜欢的
1562	some here.	这里有些
1563	He didn't wage	他没有付钱
1564	wars from behind a lectern or a	战争背后的演讲或
1565	microphone, he rode in them.	麦克风,他骑着它们。
1566	While most of today's critics	虽然今天的批评者大多
1567	write essays and debates	撰写论文和辩论
1568	about the empire,	关于帝国,
1569	he was dodging bullets to save it.	他躲过子弹来救它
1570	He faced live	他面对直播
1571	ammunition while you faced live	弹药,当你面对现场
1572	audiences.	观众。
1573	One takes	一个
1574	courage, the other takes	勇气,另一个需要
1575	good grades.	成绩不错。
1576	Now the dons	现在的唐人
1577	and the students can afford to	学生可以负担
1578	moralise because men like	道德,因为男人喜欢
1579	Churchill bought their safety	丘吉尔买了他们的保险
1580	with blood.	与血迹。
1581	They can rewrite	他们可以重写
1582	history because he made sure that there	历史因为他确保在那里
1583	was a history to write.	是一个历史写作。
1584	You study courage,	你学习勇气
1585	he lived it.	他活了下来。
1586	They have the comfort of hindsight,	他们有后视力,
1587	he had the discomfort	他有点不适
1588	of incoming fire.	即将着火
1589	Now it's easy to be flawless	现在很容易无瑕疵
1590	and judgemental.	和判断。
1591	When the	当
1592	gravest danger you face	你面临的最大危险
1593	is a D, not	是一个D,不是
1594	the Luftwaffe.	法兰西空军
1595	That's the gulf	那是海湾
1596	we're debating tonight between those who	我们今晚在那些
1597	act and those who analyse.	行动与分析者。
1598	He earned his convictions	他赢得了他的信念
1599	the hard way,	艰难的路,
1600	you earn them in a book.	你在书里挣钱
1601	When the establishment kicked him down,	当公司把他踢下来时
1602	when he didn't retreat to write a thesis,	当他没有退去写论文时
1603	he went back to the front line	他回到前线
1604	to prove he wasn't a coward.	为了证明他不是懦夫
1605	Go on.	继续
1606	Yeah, he did	是的,他这样做
1607	when he was young, actually.	其实他年轻的时候
1608	I don't come with dates, I come with	我不带约会,我带
1609	rhetoric, love.	说辞,爱。
1610	Read a book.	读一书.
1611	Now it's easy	现在很简单
1612	to be flawless.	成为无瑕疵。
1613	Oh, sorry, I think	对不起,我想
1614	I've gone to that.	我已经去。
1615	It's easy to be spotless when you've	做无斑点的人很容易
1616	never had to decide	从来没有决定
1617	who lives and dies before	活着和死去的人
1618	dawn.	黎明时分。
1619	You see, across Europe	你看,整个欧洲
1620	now, sadly, we are watching a new generation	现在,可悲的是,我们正在看着新一代
1621	of Chamberlains.	张伯伦
1622	Not waving umbrellas, it's very	不挥舞伞,这是非常
1623	awkward, but	尴尬,但是
1624	signing away sovereignty in the name	以名义签署放弃主权
1625	of global partnerships.	全球伙伴关系。
1626	Partnerships that serve everyone	为所有人服务的伙伴关系
1627	except the nations that sign them.	惟签署它们的各民族除外。
1628	They close factories for applause	他们关闭工厂来掌声
1629	abroad and call it virtue at home.	在国外,并称之为美德在国内。
1630	They weaken themselves	他们削弱自己
1631	and dress it up as progress.	把它打扮成进步
1632	They sign away their strength to global	他们向全球签署他们的力量
1633	deals that enrich their rivals	交易,丰富他们的对手
1634	but never their people.	但绝不是他们的人民。
1635	They shut down their own industries to win applause	他们关闭自己的产业 赢得掌声
1636	on the international stage and call it progress	并称之为进步
1637	while their citizens	他们的公民
1638	pay the price.	付出代价。
1639	We're watching	我们在看
1640	governments surrender their sovereignty	政府放弃主权
1641	piece by piece, dressing	逐块涂装
1642	it up as partnership.	它作为伙伴关系。
1643	They chase approval abroad	他们向国外申请批准
1644	while hollowing out nations they	将国家空虚,
1645	swore to defend.	发誓要捍卫
1646	That's	这是
1647	not national security.	不是国家安全
1648	That's betrayal dressed as	这是背叛 伪装成
1649	diplomacy, and Churchill would have	外交,丘吉尔会
1650	called it what it is.	把它称为它是什么。
1651	Appeasement.	抚恤.
1652	He warned against	他警告过不要
1653	appeasement once.	安抚一次.
1654	Sadly, we're	很遗憾,我们
1655	watching it again.	再说一遍
1656	A continent that bends rather than stands.	一个弯曲而不是站立的大陆.
1657	Leaders who treat sovereignty	对待主权的领导人
1658	like an inconvenience to be outsourced.	像一个不便 外包。
1659	Go on.	继续
1660	Okay, you're done now.	好了,你结束了。
1661	It's not a lecture.	岂非讲学.
1662	Point taken.	说得好
1663	Some would argue	有些人会争吵
1664	bravery makes a hero, and a hero	勇敢成为英雄,成为英雄
1665	is brave.	勇敢无畏
1666	Point of order.	问法句.
1667	I can't take	我无法承受
1668	all the point of order.	所有的问题。
1669	Now, where was I?	我说到哪儿了?
1670	He warned against	他警告过不要
1671	appeasement once, and we're watching it again.	一次安抚,我们又在看
1672	The continent that bends rather than stands.	弯曲而不是站立的大陆.
1673	He understood	他懂的,我说
1674	something, sadly, that our politicians	可悲的是 我们的政治家们
1675	have forgotten today.	已经忘记今天。
1676	A nation must always be able	一个国家必须永远有能力
1677	to stand alone.	独处。
1678	Because only a nation that will defend its own	因为只有保卫自己的国家
1679	self-interest to the last breath.	自我利益到最后一口气。
1680	Allies have their place,	盟军有他们的位置,
1681	but every ally has its own interest,	但每个盟友都有自己的利益,
1682	its own voters, its own flag.	自己的选民,自己的旗帜。
1683	You can work with friends, as I'm sure you	你可以和朋友一起工作,我相信你们
1684	all do.	都一样。
1685	But you cannot rely on them to	但你不能依赖他们
1686	die for your priorities.	死为你的优先。
1687	That's why	这就是为什么
1688	leaders must never outsource their courage or	领导者永远不能放弃他们的勇气
1689	their sovereignty.	他们的主权。
1690	And the price of	和代价
1691	forgetting that, that our leaders have	忘记这一点,我们的领导人
1692	today, Churchill would	今天,丘吉尔会
1693	have called it appeasement.	称之为安抚。
1694	A nation...	一个国家...
1695	Yeah, go on.	是啊,继续。
1696	Who wanted a point	谁想要一点
1697	of order?	秩序吗?
1698	Sorry, do you have a question?	对不起,你有问题吗?
1699	Yeah?	是吗?
1700	I'm not denying that.	我不会否认的
1701	What's your point?	你想说什么?
1702	See, Churchill	看,丘吉尔
1703	didn't lead by focus group.	没有通过焦点小组领导。
1704	Churchill didn't lead by focus groups.	丘吉尔并没有由焦点小组领导.
1705	He led with conviction.	他带着信念领导。
1706	He recognized	他认得
1707	the first and the most	第一个和最
1708	sacred duty of any	任何人的神圣义务
1709	government is to keep its people safe.	政府要保证人民的安全
1710	And unlike our leaders today,	不像我们今天的领导人
1711	he honored it.	他很荣幸
1712	He spoke victory into existence	他把胜利说成存在
1713	when every map screamed defeat.	当每张地图都尖叫着失败的时候
1714	He told a bombed out Britain,	他告诉一个被轰炸的英国,
1715	we are masters of our fate.	我们是命运的主宰
1716	And the nation believed him.	国家相信他
1717	Let's be honest, he	老实说,他
1718	wasn't perfect.	不尽如人意
1719	Perfection	完善
1720	is for angels, victory is for adults.	是天使的胜利是成年人的胜利
1721	A hero isn't a saint.	英雄非圣贤.
1722	He's the one that does whatever	他是一个谁做什么
1723	it takes when civilization is on	当文明开始的时候
1724	the line.	线条。
1725	He chose duty	他选择了义务
1726	over popularity	超受欢迎
1727	and he made defense itself	他为自己辩护,
1728	a victory.	一个胜利。
1729	He saw what	他看见了什么
1730	clever men, much like today,	聪明人,就像今天一样
1731	in fancy suits, didn't	穿着漂亮的西装,没有
1732	that evil was gathering strength.	邪恶正在凝聚力量
1733	And Europe's polite diplomacy	欧洲的礼节外交
1734	was feeding it.	是喂养它。
1735	He understood that surrender doesn't stop	他知道投降不会停止
1736	tyranny.	暴政。 暴政。
1737	It feeds it.	其供养.
1738	His words, we shall fight on the beaches.	他的话,我们要在海滩上战斗
1739	They weren't the poetry you recite.	他们不是你所诵的诗
1740	They were policy.	他们是政策。
1741	And they saved lives.	他们拯救了生命。
1742	They convinced a	他们说服
1743	frightened nation that defiance itself	恐惧的国家 藐视自己
1744	is victory.	这是胜利。
1745	Yes, he was human.	是的,他是人类。
1746	I'm so happy to see	我很高兴看到
1747	so many reform fans here.	这么多的改革粉丝在这里。
1748	I must tell you, sir, you need to stop	我必须告诉你,先生,你必须停止
1749	watching social media and actually read the news.	观看社交媒体,实际上阅读新闻。
1750	Because neither of that	因为没有
1751	were said.	有人说。
1752	Now, heroism, my friends, ladies and gentlemen,	现在,英雄主义,我的朋友,女士们,先生们,
1753	is measured in lives protected, liberties preserved,	以保护生命、保护自由来衡量
1754	and tyrannies extinguished,	暴虐者被扑灭,
1755	not in meetings or perfect prose.	不是在会议 或完美的传言。
1756	A tragedy, no hero is spotless,	悲剧,没有英雄是无色的,
1757	but if perfection is the entry fee for heroism,	但是如果完美是英雄主义的入场费
1758	empty every statue plinth from Rome to Washington.	从罗马到华盛顿的每个雕像都空了
1759	He believed not just in Britain,	他不仅仅相信英国
1760	unlike our leaders today, but in a Great Britain,	不像今天我们的领导人 但在英国
1761	a Britain that leads, builds, and refuses to bow.	a 英国领导、建设和拒绝鞠躬。
1762	When appeases trembled, he stood firm.	当安抚不安时,他站稳了
1763	When defeat seemed inevitable,	当失败似乎不可避免的时候,
1764	he made defiance itself a victory,	他以为自己是胜利的,
1765	and when the smoke cleared, he did not leave perfection,	当烟雾消散的时候,他没有离开完美,
1766	but he left freedom.	但他离开了自由。
1767	He believed in a united Europe led by Britain.	他相信一个由英国领导的统一欧洲.
1768	He believed in sovereignty, in pride,	他相信主权,自豪,
1769	and in civilization worth defending.	在值得捍卫的文明中
1770	You think history is something that you edit.	你认为历史是你编辑的。
1771	He knew history is something you make.	他知道历史是你创造的
1772	Leaders today talk about shared values,	今天的领导人谈论共同的价值观,
1773	but he believed in actual values worth fighting for.	但他相信值得为它奋斗的实际价值
1774	He didn't care about the optics.	他不在乎光学
1775	He cared about the outcome.	他关心结果。
1776	He didn't seek permission from the establishment.	他没有向机构寻求许可.
1777	He told it to go away and where to stand.	他叫它走开,站在哪
1778	He didn't care about being liked, unlike most of you.	他不关心被喜欢, 不像你们大多数人。
1779	Unlike most of you, he cared about being right.	与你们大多数人不同,他关心的是正确。
1780	The historians on my left and the students	我左边的历史学家和学生
1781	have the luxury, the historians on my left	有奢侈,历史学家在我左边
1782	have the luxury of judging the past with today's morals	以今天的道德判断过去
1783	because Churchill gave them that luxury.	因为丘吉尔给了他们那种奢侈
1784	They gave them a tomorrow to do it in.	他们给了他们一个明天做它。
1785	Professors on my left may annotate a tragedy.	我左边的教授们可能会说出悲剧
1786	Statement, statesmen have to avert it.	声明,政治家必须避免.
1787	He spoke, he told a nation of ordinary people	他说话,告诉一个普通人的国家
1788	that they were the masters of their fate,	他们原是自己命运的主宰,
1789	and because of his conviction, they believed him.	由于他的信念,他们相信他。
1790	So why does this matter tonight?	那今晚这有什么关系?
1791	Because this debate isn't really about Churchill.	因为这场辩论不是关于丘吉尔的
1792	It's about whether Britain and everyone in this room	这是关于英国和所有在这个房间里的人
1793	still remembers what heroism looks like.	还是记得英雄主义是什么样子的
1794	You live in peace because he had the guts to fight for it.	你活得很平静,因为他有勇气去争取
1795	And this house of all places,	和这里所有的地方,
1796	a house that can't define what a man or a woman is,	房子不能定义 男人或女人是什么,
1797	how could it ever hope to recognize courage?	怎么会有勇气呢?
1798	That kind of confusion, ladies and gentlemen,	那种混乱,女士们先生们,
1799	on the front line would have lost us the war in a week.	在前线一周内就会输掉战争
1800	He had flaws, but he had the single quality	他有缺陷,但他有单一的品质
1801	that no modern leader seems to possess,	现代领袖似乎没有拥有,
1802	the refusal to lose.	拒绝输。
1803	He was no saint.	他不是个圣人
1804	He wasn't a slogan.	他不是一个口号。
1805	He was just a man who stood up	他只是个站起来的人
1806	when standing up looked impossible.	站着看似不可能
1807	And by doing so, ladies and gentlemen,	女士们先生们,
1808	he kept a nation free enough for people like us	他为我们这样的人保持了自由
1809	to sit here and criticize him.	坐在这批评他
1810	He was no armchair patriot like you.	他不是你这样的爱国者
1811	He didn't fight for applause, he fought for survival.	他没有为掌声而战,他为生存而战.
1812	He didn't chase approval abroad.	他没有在国外寻求批准.
1813	He carried his nation on his back,	他背着自己的国家,
1814	and God help this country if we ever hand it	愿上帝保佑我们的国家
1815	to someone who wouldn't.	给一个不会的人
1816	I commend the motion to the house, thank you.	我向大家推荐这个动议,谢谢。
1817	We're doing two more floor speeches.	我们再做两层演讲
1818	Is there anyone from the audience	有观众吗?
1819	that wants to give a speech for side proposition?	那想发表一个演讲 为副命题?
1820	For proposition?	为了提议?
1821	Yep, the man in the back.	对 后面那个男的
1822	Excuse me, right.	对不起
1823	So I'm gonna be completely honest.	所以我会完全诚实。
1824	I did come here kind of thinking I'll argue	我确实来这里 有点想我会争辩
1825	for the opposition, but I think there's a fundamental	但是我觉得有一个根本的
1826	mistake in this debate question,	这场辩论的错误问题,
1827	because we're debating if Churchill is a hero.	因为我们在辩论丘吉尔是不是英雄
1828	A hero is a mythological concept.	英雄是一个神话概念.
1829	And in the modern mythology of Britain,	在英国现代神话中
1830	of the people that live here,	他们是居住于此的民众,
1831	there's no doubt that he's a hero.	毫无疑问他是英雄
1832	It's almost tautological.	几乎是同义词.
1833	Mythology is not something that's necessarily	"神话"不一定是
1834	coherent, factual.	连贯,实事求是。
1835	It's just, it's mythology.	只是,这是神话。
1836	And the figure, the archetype of Churchill	还有丘吉尔的典型人物
1837	inspires Britain.	激励英国。
1838	And it's, therefore, I don't think it's,	因此,我不认为...
1839	you should respect the mythology of a nation,	你应该尊重一个民族的神话,
1840	of a country.	一个国家。
1841	For a lot of people, modern British history	对很多人来说,现代英国历史
1842	really only began in World War II,	真正开始于二战
1843	after World War II, as strange as it may seem.	在二战之后 似乎有点奇怪
1844	That's how a lot of people effectively treated us.	很多人就是这样对待我们的。
1845	And basically should respect the mythology of a people.	基本上应该尊重一个民族的神话.
1846	And that's why I don't think it's really possible	这就是为什么我不认为 这真的可能
1847	to argue that Churchill is not a hero for Britain.	认为丘吉尔不是英国的英雄
1848	Sure.	当然
1849	Fair enough.	不错
1850	But he's still a hero for Britain,	但他还是英国的英雄
1851	for the modern popular British conception.	为现代流行的英国概念。
1852	So what I want to say is the following, though.	我想说的是:
1853	If the question was, was he a good leader?	如果问题是 他是个好领袖吗?
1854	Yeah, if the debate question was something like this,	是啊,如果辩论的问题 是这样的,
1855	was he a good leader overall?	他是一个很好的领导整体?
1856	Then you could have a more factual debate about it.	然后,你可以有一个更 事实性的辩论。
1857	And another thing I want to say is the following.	还有一件事我想说:
1858	If World War II didn't live so large	如果二战没有那么大
1859	in the modern British imagination	在现代英国的想象中
1860	and the World War II victory,	二战的胜利,
1861	if we focused instead, perhaps, on World War I,	如果我们把注意力集中在第一次世界大战上
1862	and this was like our big mythological foundation,	这就像我们的神话基础,
1863	then we may see Churchill differently in that light,	这样我们就能从这个角度看待丘吉尔了
1864	because he was actually quite an aggressive proponent	因为他实际上是一个相当积极的支持者
1865	for war, in World War I, et cetera.	战争,第一次世界大战,等等。
1866	But as it stands, our modern mythology effectively	但是现在,我们的现代神话
1867	for this country is the importance of World War II,	对于这个国家来说是二战的重要性,
1868	our resistance in it, winning it,	我们的抵抗,赢得它,
1869	and therefore I think it's difficult	因此我觉得很难
1870	not to say that Churchill is not a hero.	不要说丘吉尔不是英雄
1871	That's it, thank you.	好了,谢谢
1872	Takers for opposition.	采取反对者。
1873	Good evening.	边
1874	I came into this house expecting that if I were to speak,	我来到这所房子 期望如果我说话,
1875	I would be speaking on the opposite side.	我会说反面。
1876	I have all my life believed that Winston Churchill	我一直相信温斯顿·丘吉尔
1877	was one of the greatest Britons to have ever lived.	是有史以来最伟大的英国人之一
1878	I now speak on this side for two reasons.	我现在在这边发言有两个原因。
1879	Firstly, the compellingness of the arguments	第一,论点的说服力
1880	put forward by the opposition based on facts, not rhetoric.	由反对派根据事实而不是言辞提出。
1881	And I must confess also,	我必须承认,
1882	I simply cannot stand on that podium	我根本不能站在那个讲台上
1883	and argue for the same side of the speakers	并为同一方的发言者辩护
1884	who have just stood up.	他们刚刚站起来。
1885	To stand there as someone running	站在那里当跑步的人
1886	for an elected office in this country	担任该国民选职位
1887	and say that I am not here to base my arguments	并说,我不是在这里 我的论据
1888	on statistics, on data, but on rhetoric.	关于统计,关于数据,但关于言论。
1889	You will be someone who will be making policy decisions	你将会是做决策的人
1890	in this country with a real impact	在这个国家有真正影响
1891	that shapes people's lives,	塑造人们的生活,
1892	and to make statements like that,	并做出这样的声明,
1893	I'm appalled, I'm genuinely appalled.	我很震惊,我真的很震惊。
1894	Yes, did I not say someone who could be,	是的,我没有说谁可以,
1895	I believe I said someone who's running for the office,	我想我说有人在竞选办公室
1896	so they could, will be, okay, fine.	所以他们可以,会,没事的。
1897	Well, will if you win.	如果你赢了会赢的
1898	After that, I sincerely hope not.	之后,我真诚希望不要。
1899	Sincerely hope not.	真诚的希望不是。
1900	But the arguments put forward by,	但提出的论点,
1901	to stick to the topic of debate,	坚持辩论议题,
1902	the arguments put forward by the opposition	反对派提出的论点
1903	were, I must confess, I'm a reluctant convert.	我不得不承认 我是个不愿皈依的人
1904	Yes, I do genuinely believe	是的,我确实相信
1905	that Churchill motivated the British people.	丘吉尔激励英国人民
1906	His speech making and his rhetoric were unparalleled.	他的演讲和言论是无与伦比的。
1907	Yet, both from the arguments put forward by the opposition	然而,从反对派提出的论点来看,
1908	and I'm so horrified to say the caliber of the proposition,	我很震惊地说,这个提议的质量,
1909	I have to speak in opposition of the motion tonight.	今晚我不得不反对动议
1910	Thank you.	谢谢
1911	After discussing with my Treasurer,	在和我的司库讨论之后
1912	I would like to award the floor speech	我想颁奖演讲
1913	to the first proposition speaker that spoke.	给第一位演讲者
1914	Next, I would like to ask Professor Simms	接下来我要问西姆斯教授
1915	to deliver the final speech for side opposition.	以发表最后的演讲 以表达双方的反对。
1916	Madam President, ladies and gentlemen,	主席女士,女士们,先生们,
1917	I'd like to thank the Union Society	感谢联合社
1918	for the invitation to speak.	请求发言。
1919	It's a great honor and a pleasure.	谓大尊大欢喜.
1920	It's a tribute to your authority, Madam President,	这是对你权威的敬意,主席女士,
1921	that the short speech I'm about to give	我将要作的简短演讲
1922	is not the one that I originally intended to make.	不是我原来想做的
1923	As you know, I was first slated to argue	如你所知,我第一次参加辩论
1924	in favor of the proposition	支持该提议
1925	and was then asked to speak against instead.	然后被要求说反对。
1926	I follow your command, Madam President,	我听从你的命令,主席女士,
1927	without question, but also with trepidation.	毫无疑义,但也充满了恐惧。
1928	Because we all know a certain former prime minister	因为我们都知道某个前总理
1929	and indeed former president of this union	以及本工会的前任主席
1930	elected exactly 40 years ago,	40年前当选,
1931	who famously wrote two different newspaper columns	他写了两个不同的报纸专栏
1932	on Brexit, one for and one against.	布雷克西特号上,一个反对,一个反对。
1933	Before making up his mind how to vote.	在决定如何投票之前
1934	Actually, I've always regarded his way of proceeding	其实,我一直想着他的行事方式
1935	as less a sign of opportunism than of intellectual rigor,	作为机会主义的标志 而不是智力的僵硬,
1936	trying to weigh up the arguments	试图权衡争论
1937	as any responsible person should.	任何负责人都应该这样做。
1938	Still, I would not like the House to think	不过,我不希望 议会认为
1939	that I can just turn on a dime	我可以打开一毛钱
1940	simply because I was commanded to do so.	只是因为我奉命这么做
1941	But I have another reason for concern.	但我有理由担心
1942	If our side prevails tonight,	如果今晚我们一方获胜
1943	which I very much hope it does,	我非常希望这样
1944	might we not be compared to an earlier House	也许我们不被比喻为古老的天房,
1945	which in February of 1933 passed the motion,	于1933年2月通过了这项动议,
1946	and I quote, that this House will under no circumstances	我引用一句,本院在任何情况下都不会
1947	fight for its king and country.	为国王和国家而战
1948	Now, this was taken by many abroad	现在,这是许多 在国外拍摄的
1949	as an indication that Britain	表明英国
1950	would not resist the dictators.	他们不会反抗独裁者。
1951	So if we vote that Winston Churchill is not a hero,	如果我们投票认为温斯顿·丘吉尔不是英雄
1952	and this seems in a way the burden	这似乎是一种负担
1953	of what Zia Youssef was arguing,	以齐亚·优素福所争论的是非。
1954	is there not a risk that Vladimir Putin	弗拉基米尔·普京没有风险
1955	or some other tyrant might draw a similar conclusion	或者其他暴君可能得出类似的结论
1956	about the UK's willingness	关于英国的意愿
1957	to defend the international order today?	维护今天的国际秩序?
1958	Now, in important respects, of course,	现在,在一些重要方面,当然,
1959	Churchill's life was plainly heroic.	丘吉尔的一生很英勇
1960	If we're talking about physical courage, as we heard,	如果我们说的是身体上的勇气,就像我们听到的那样,
1961	he had it in abundance.	他有丰富的。
1962	He's a man who repeatedly put himself in harm's way	他是个屡屡伤害自己的人
1963	as a young officer on India's Northwestern frontier	作为印度西北边疆的年轻军官
1964	during the cavalry charge at Onderman,	在昂德曼的骑兵部队中
1965	or as we heard, as a war correspondent in South Africa.	就像我们听到的 在南非的战时通讯员
1966	If we're talking about moral courage, he had that too.	如果我们说的是道德勇气,他也有
1967	Churchill, as we've heard repeatedly,	丘吉尔,我们屡次听到
1968	opposed the appeasement of Hitler	反对安抚希特勒
1969	at a time when indulging Germany	此时此刻,德国
1970	seemed the smart thing to do.	看起来很聪明
1971	And of course, his record of public service,	当然,他的公务记录,
1972	culminating but not ending	最终但并未结束
1973	with his epic wartime premiership, is well known.	他以史诗般的战时首演,是众所周知的。
1974	So, how do I dare to stand before you	那么,我怎么敢站在你面前? . .
1975	and say that Churchill was not a hero?	说丘吉尔不是英雄?
1976	After all, I'm not a Churchill biographer	毕竟我不是丘吉尔传记作家
1977	or an expert on early 20th century Britain.	或者20世纪初英国的专家
1978	If you go down the road to Blackwells,	如果你去布莱克威尔斯
1979	they have a whole section devoted to Churchill,	他们有一整节关于丘吉尔,
1980	fine biographies, including those	优秀的传记,包括
1981	by Andrew Roberts and others.	由安德鲁·罗伯茨等人创作.
1982	My name is not among the authors.	我的名字不在作者之列。
1983	If you go down a little bit further,	如果你再往下走一点
1984	you'll see section on Hitler.	你会看到关于希特勒的部分。
1985	I am present there.	我在场。
1986	I'm a humble historian of geopolitics.	我是一个谦卑的地缘政治史学家.
1987	So, what do I have to offer tonight?	那么,我今晚要提供什么?
1988	So, my objections are not the conventional ones.	因此,我的反对不是常规的。
1989	They're not to do with his domestic politics,	他们和他国内的政治无关
1990	which we heard about, which were sometimes divisive,	我们所听说的, 有时是分裂的,
1991	his stance during the general strike, for example,	例如,他在总罢工期间的立场,
1992	the rather wild rhetoric about the dangers	相当疯狂的言论 关于危险
1993	of a labor government in 1945,	1945年的一个劳动政府,
1994	when he talked about Gestapo-like tendencies and so on.	当他谈到类似盖世太保的倾向等等时.
1995	My objections are not motivated	我的反对没有动机
1996	by the serious strategic errors in both wars,	两次战争的严重战略错误,
1997	some of which we heard about.	一些我们听说的。
1998	It's well known that Churchill, of course,	众所周知,丘吉尔,当然,
1999	bore the burden of responsibility	背负着责任
2000	for the disastrous Dardanelles campaign.	达达尼斯的灾难性运动。
2001	And again, we heard about Norway,	再说一遍 我们听说了挪威
2002	which paradoxically, although a disaster,	既使灾祸降临,
2003	helped to make him prime minister.	帮助他成为首相.
2004	And then later he sent troops to Greece,	后来他向希腊派遣军队
2005	which provoked Hitler's intervention	激起了希特勒的干预
2006	and another military disaster.	还有另一场军事灾难
2007	Finally, there are, of course,	最后,当然,
2008	the brutal aerial attacks on German cities,	对德国城市的野蛮空袭
2009	which killed countless civilians,	杀死无数平民,
2010	operations which took place	发生的行动
2011	rather than concentrating on more military targets,	而不是专注于更多的军事目标,
2012	and one could go on.	还可以继续
2013	My concerns are not even about Churchill's views	我甚至不关心丘吉尔的观点
2014	on race and empire, which are well known,	种族和帝国, 众所周知,
2015	and we heard about them.	我们听说了
2016	Churchill was a man of his time,	丘吉尔是他的时代的人,
2017	but his time was not the Britain of the 1930s,	但他的时代不是1930年代的英国,
2018	when he was already an anachronism,	当他已经过时了,
2019	but of the late Victorian and early Edwardian periods.	但维多利亚时代晚期和爱德华时代早期
2020	That said, one struggles to think	这么说来,有人在思考
2021	which great figures of the past	过去最伟大的人物
2022	would qualify for hero status	将有资格获得英雄地位
2023	when measured by the standards of our own time.	以我们自己时代的标准来衡量
2024	Not the Duke of Wellington, a military genius,	不是威灵顿公爵 一个军事天才
2025	but an avowed reactionary, not Franklin Roosevelt,	却是一个被谴责的反动分子 而不是富兰克林·罗斯福
2026	of course, complicit with Southern Democrats,	当然,与南方民主党的同谋
2027	not Martin Luther King,	不是马丁·路德·金
2028	given what we know about his private life, and so on.	我们了解他的私生活,等等
2029	We rightly judge all these people in their own context	我们正确地判断所有这些人 他们自己的背景
2030	and try to balance their achievements	并努力平衡他们的成就
2031	with their shortcomings.	与他们的缺点。
2032	So if Winston Churchill is not a hero overall,	如果温斯顿·丘吉尔不是英雄
2033	you might well ask, who is?	你可能会问,谁是?
2034	Now, my objection is a different one,	现在,我的反对是不同的,
2035	and it's inspired by Alec Ryrie's	它的灵感来自艾力克・赖利
2036	very stimulating little book,	非常刺激的小书,
2037	The Age of Hitler and How We Will Survive It.	希特勒时代和我们如何生存
2038	Ryrie, who is a theologian,	瑞丽,他是神学家
2039	argues that after the Second World War,	第二次世界大战后,
2040	Jesus Christ, who epitomized moral goodness,	耶稣基督,谁 象征道德善良,
2041	was overtaken by Adolf Hitler,	被阿道夫·希特勒所取代,
2042	who, of course, epitomized evil,	当然,他们是恶人,
2043	and as the main moral referent.	和作为主要的道德参考。
2044	Today, he suggests, we are living in a post-Hitler age,	今天,他暗示,我们生活在一个后希特勒时代,
2045	a time when the German dictator is, rightly or wrongly,	德国独裁者是正确还是错误的
2046	no longer the principal reference point,	不再是主要参考点,
2047	either morally or politically.	无论是道德还是政治。
2048	And so, it should come as no surprise	所以,它应该不奇怪
2049	that Churchill, who has long been criticized on the left	丘吉尔在左边长期受到批评
2050	and, as we've heard, in parts of the Global South,	正如我们所听到的 在全球南方的部分地区
2051	is now increasingly under attack from the right,	现在越来越受到右翼攻击
2052	especially in the United States,	特别是在美国,
2053	from the likes of Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes.	塔克・卡尔森和尼克・富恩特斯
2054	And I would suggest that in our age,	我建议在我们这个年代
2055	where Hitler has ceased to be the absolute evil,	在希特勒不再是绝对邪恶的地方
2056	his great nemesis, Winston Churchill,	温斯顿·丘吉尔
2057	can no longer be the absolute hero.	不能再成为绝对的英雄了
2058	And we've seen this recently in the well-meant,	我们最近从美食中看到了这个
2059	but ultimately, I think, misfiring attempts	但归根结底,我认为, 错误的尝试
2060	to mobilize Churchill's legacy in support of Ukraine.	动员丘吉尔的遗产 支持乌克兰。
2061	President Biden, for example,	例如拜登总统
2062	introduced the Ukraine Democracy Defense Lend-Lease Act	《乌克兰民主防卫租借法》
2063	of 2022 to echo the World War II Lend-Lease Act,	2022年的《二战租借法》
2064	by which Roosevelt, of course, helped Churchill.	罗斯福当然帮助丘吉尔
2065	Some have compared the so-called crinks,	一些人比较了所谓的凹陷,
2066	China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea,	中国、俄罗斯、伊朗和朝鲜
2067	to the Axis powers of Germany, Italy, and Japan	德国、意大利和日本的轴心国
2068	during the Second World War.	第二次世界大战期间
2069	And President Zelensky of Ukraine	乌克兰总统泽连斯基
2070	has been rightly praised for his leadership	他的领导能力受到赞扬
2071	and widely compared to Winston Churchill	并且与温斯顿·丘吉尔作广泛比较
2072	as an inspirational figure.	作为灵感的人物。
2073	Now, there's a lot to these arguments,	现在,有很多这些论点,
2074	but I think not enough to sustain them	但我认为不足以维持他们
2075	in the new post-Hitler age.	在新的后希特勒时代。
2076	In the end, most people do not think	最终大多数人不会认为
2077	that Vladimir Putin is Hitler,	弗拉基米尔·普京是希特勒
2078	is the Japanese emperor,	是日本皇帝吗?
2079	or that Ayatollah Khamenei is Mussolini.	或者阿亚图拉哈梅内伊是墨索里尼
2080	And by extension, Churchill may have been,	粗略地说,丘吉尔可能是,
2081	in his era, a hero,	在他的时代,一个英雄,
2082	but his usefulness as a hero today is limited.	但他今天作为英雄的用处有限
2083	So it's time, ladies and gentlemen,	时间到了 女士们先生们
2084	not to abandon Churchill so much as to let go of him.	不要放弃丘吉尔 以至于放弃他
2085	Please do not misunderstand me.	请不要误会我。
2086	We face great dangers today,	我们今天面临巨大的危险
2087	some of them have been mentioned,	他们中有被提及过的,
2088	from Russian aggression in Ukraine,	俄罗斯侵略乌克兰
2089	and perhaps in the Baltic and high north tomorrow,	也许在波罗的海和高北 明天,
2090	from the People's Republic of China's threats	中华人民共和国的威胁
2091	to attack Taiwan and snuff out freedom there,	攻击台湾 并扼杀在那里的自由,
2092	from Iranian or Iranian-inspired terrorism across the globe,	来自伊朗或伊朗煽动的全球恐怖主义,
2093	and I'm afraid from the often eccentric behavior	我害怕经常怪异的行为
2094	of the President of the United States,	美国总统,
2095	which makes his country a problematic ally today.	这使得他的国家今天成为一个有问题的盟友。
2096	He threatens, as you know, not merely to withdraw help,	他威胁,你知道的, 不仅仅是撤回帮助,
2097	but actually menaces his partners.	但实际上威胁了他的伙伴。
2098	The America today is not one that Churchill would recognize,	今天的美国不是丘吉尔会承认的
2099	and consequently, he is a lot less relevant.	因此,他没有那么重要。
2100	And that's why we need new heroes, different heroes now.	这就是为什么我们现在需要新的英雄,不同的英雄。
2101	We can find them in the Hong Kong protesters	我们可以在香港的抗议者中找到他们
2102	resisting the tyranny of the CCP,	反抗中共的暴政,
2103	the Chinese Communist Party,	中国共产党,
2104	in the Iranian opposition crowds	在伊朗反对派的人群中
2105	who are so mercilessly suppressed by the mullahs,	他们被毛拉无情地镇压,
2106	and of course, in the heroism of the Ukrainian people	当然,在乌克兰人民的英雄主义中
2107	and armed forces, who for nearly four years	武装部队成员,已近四年
2108	have stood alone against the onslaught	曾独自抵抗进攻,
2109	of a vastly superior enemy.	是一个超级强大的敌人
2110	If we need heroes today in Britain, and we do,	如果我们今天需要英国的英雄 而我们确实需要
2111	we can find them in the submariners	我们可以在潜水艇里找到他们
2112	who track Russian submarines on a daily basis,	他每天追踪俄国潜艇,
2113	or in the troops now deployed in the Baltic	或现在部署在波罗的海的部队
2114	as part of a deterrence mission.	作为威慑任务的一部分
2115	So it's for all these reasons that I ask you tonight	所以我今晚才问你
2116	not to disinter Winston Churchill from the national pantheon.	不要让温斯顿·丘吉尔 离开国家泛神社
2117	Whatever we say here, his place in British	不管我们说什么,他住在英国
2118	and in world history is secure,	世界历史是安全的,
2119	but to vote in favor of heroism for our own time,	但投票支持英雄主义 在我们自己的时间,
2120	and therefore to reject the proposition	因此拒绝这一主张
2121	that Winston Churchill is a hero to us today.	温斯顿·丘吉尔今天是我们的英雄
2122	Thank you.	谢谢
2123	Thank you to all our speakers that came to speak today,	感谢今天前来发言的所有发言者,
2124	and thank you to the members for being so attentive.	并感谢你的关心。
2125	I would like to remind everyone to please stay seated	我想提醒大家请坐
2126	while the speakers and their guests leave the room,	扬声者及其客人出门的时候,
2127	and a reminder for everyone to vote by leaving,	并教诲众人,
2128	either if you're voting yes or no for the motion,	如果你对动议投了赞成或反对票,
2129	by using the door to do so,	利用门这样做,
2130	and I will be announcing the results	我将宣布结果
2131	shortly.	马上就来
2132	Thank you.	谢谢
2133	Thank you, everyone.	谢谢大家

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