【剑桥辩论】技术侵蚀了民主 2026-11-06 [B1]
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字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:13 | Hello, everyone, and welcome to the fifth debate of the year. | 大家好 欢迎参加今年的第五次辩论 |
| 0:18 | A few points from me first, as usual. | 我先说几分,如往常. |
| 0:21 | Firstly, applications for Deputy Returning Officer | 第一,申请副返回干事 |
| 0:24 | close soon. | 很快关闭。 |
| 0:25 | Make sure to get on that as soon as you can. | 尽快解决 |
| 0:27 | Perks include charity points, which | 施舍包括慈善点, |
| 0:29 | you need to run for positions on standing, | 你需要竞选站立位置, |
| 0:32 | and priority for drink receptions | 和饮料招待会的优先权; |
| 0:33 | with our esteemed guests, including this Hawking fellow, | 与我们的贵宾, 包括这个霍金家伙, |
| 0:36 | Sir James Dyson. | 詹姆士・戴森爵士 |
展开字幕全文（1499 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Hello, everyone, and welcome to the fifth debate of the year. | 大家好 欢迎参加今年的第五次辩论 |
| 2 | A few points from me first, as usual. | 我先说几分,如往常. |
| 3 | Firstly, applications for Deputy Returning Officer | 第一,申请副返回干事 |
| 4 | close soon. | 很快关闭。 |
| 5 | Make sure to get on that as soon as you can. | 尽快解决 |
| 6 | Perks include charity points, which | 施舍包括慈善点, |
| 7 | you need to run for positions on standing, | 你需要竞选站立位置, |
| 8 | and priority for drink receptions | 和饮料招待会的优先权; |
| 9 | with our esteemed guests, including this Hawking fellow, | 与我们的贵宾, 包括这个霍金家伙, |
| 10 | Sir James Dyson. | 詹姆士・戴森爵士 |
| 11 | Also, on your order papers, you will see our members' memos | 还有,在你的订货单上,你会看到我们的会员备忘录 |
| 12 | on the QR code. | 在QR代码。 |
| 13 | By all means, scan it if you have | 随便了,如果你有的话,就扫描一下 |
| 14 | any thoughts on the topic at hand, | 关于本专题的任何想法, |
| 15 | any constructive criticism for the committee | 对委员会的任何建设性批评 |
| 16 | on putting on these events, or if you just | 或者说,如果你只是 |
| 17 | want to let us know how awesome we are, that would be great. | 告诉我们我们有多棒 那就太好了 |
| 18 | Moving on, the motion before the House tonight | 继续,今晚众议院的议案 |
| 19 | is this House believes technology | 这房子相信科技 |
| 20 | has eroded democracy. | 已经侵蚀了民主。 |
| 21 | Each speaker will be given eight minutes | 每个发言者将有8分钟的发言时间。 |
| 22 | to speak in opposition or proposition to the motion, | 表示反对或提议动议, |
| 23 | during which you guys are welcome to raise your hand | 欢迎你们举手 |
| 24 | and say on that point or point of information | 并在此信息点上说 |
| 25 | if you would like to challenge what they're saying. | 如果你想挑战他们说的话 |
| 26 | They are at liberty to accept or reject your point, | 他们有权接受或拒绝你的观点, |
| 27 | so please be respectful of that. | 所以请尊重这一点。 |
| 28 | And again, no back and forth. | 复次无前后. |
| 29 | As usual, film and photography is not permitted tonight. | 和往常一样,电影和摄影是不允许 今晚。 |
| 30 | Leave us to do that. | 离开我们去做到这一点。 |
| 31 | We have trained professionals on standby. | 我们已经培训了待命的专业人员。 |
| 32 | OK, with all that out of the way, let's get started. | 好,让开,我们开始吧 |
| 33 | Speaking first in proposition is Dr. Fazl Barres, | 法兹尔·巴雷斯博士首先发言 |
| 34 | a senior researcher at the University of Oxford, | 牛津大学高级研究员, |
| 35 | where he leads the Technical Safety and Governance Lab | 他领导技术安全与治理实验室 |
| 36 | and serves as technical director of the AI Governance | 并担任AI治理技术主任 |
| 37 | Initiative. | 倡议。 |
| 38 | His research examines what happens inside AI systems | 他的研究研究了AI系统内部发生的事情 |
| 39 | and how those systems can be governed, | 以及如何管理这些系统, |
| 40 | including the risks advanced technology poses | 包括先进技术带来的风险 |
| 41 | to democratic institutions from surveillance | 从监视到民主机构 |
| 42 | to AI-enabled authoritarianism. | 专制主义。 |
| 43 | Dr. Fazl, you have the years of the House. | 法兹尔博士,你有家族的年号 |
| 44 | Mr. President, ladies and gentlemen, | 主席先生,女士们,先生们, |
| 45 | it's a pleasure to be here. | 很高兴能来 |
| 46 | I think we all can agree that when an engineer is standing | 我想我们都同意 当一个工程师站在 |
| 47 | here before you tonight, democracy is in danger. | 今晚在你面前 民主处于危险之中 |
| 48 | And to make the case, I'll make three points. | 且为立案,则三分矣. |
| 49 | First, technology has fundamentally | 首先,技术从根本上讲 |
| 50 | changed the balance of power between citizens and the state. | 改变了公民和国家之间的权力平衡。 |
| 51 | Governments can now monitor people | 政府现在可以监测人民 |
| 52 | on scale that once would have been unimaginable. | 其规模曾经是不可思议的。 |
| 53 | Second, technology is making accountability increasingly | 第二,技术使问责制日益加强。 |
| 54 | difficult. | 很难 |
| 55 | We are now allowing algorithms to decide | 我们现在允许算法决定 |
| 56 | what we see, what we hear, and how to live our lives. | 我们所看到的,我们听到的, 和如何生活我们的生活。 |
| 57 | And third, technology whose control and information | 第三,控制与信息的技术 |
| 58 | we use to make democratic choices are uneven | 我们用来做出民主选择是不平衡的 |
| 59 | and not distributed equally. | 而且分配不均 |
| 60 | So first of all, who can watch us? | 首先 谁能监视我们? |
| 61 | For most of the history, governments | 对于大部分历史,政府 |
| 62 | had a very scarce resource. | 资源非常匮乏。 |
| 63 | In order for them to monitor and surveil you, | 为了让他们监视你 |
| 64 | they had to actually use a human to do so. | 他们不得不用人类来这样做。 |
| 65 | However, AI is changing technology. | 然而,AI正在改变技术. |
| 66 | But when it comes to erosion of democratic norms, | 但当涉及到民主规范的削弱时, |
| 67 | I think maybe we should start with a little bit of history. | 我想也许我们应该从一些历史开始。 |
| 68 | If you think about this very night, | 如果你想到这个晚上 |
| 69 | Guy Fawkes was found under the parliament | 议会下发现盖伊·福克斯 |
| 70 | with a lot of guest chambers trying to blow up the parliament. | 很多宾馆都想炸掉议会 |
| 71 | Nowadays, in order to erode democratic norms, | 如今,为了削弱民主规范, |
| 72 | you do not need to erode the parliament | 你不需要侵蚀议会 |
| 73 | or blow up the chambers that allow freedom of speech. | 或者炸掉允许言论自由的会议厅。 |
| 74 | Similarly, if you think about East Germany, | 同样,如果你想到东德 |
| 75 | the state had around 200,000 full-time employees | 国家有大约20万全职员工 |
| 76 | in order to gather information, in order to surveil people. | 为了收集信息,为了监视人们。 |
| 77 | If you think about that, more than a quarter of million | 如果你考虑一下,超过25万 |
| 78 | of people helping monitor a country | 帮助监测一个国家的人 |
| 79 | offer 16 million alone. | 仅提供1600万。 |
| 80 | Today, all you need is a data center, | 今天,你只需要一个数据中心, |
| 81 | and that's all you need in order to erode democratic norms. | 而这正是你所需要的 为了削弱民主规范。 |
| 82 | Much of that work can now be done | 现在可以做大量的工作。 |
| 83 | by cameras that are essentially put in place | 通过基本安装的摄像机 |
| 84 | for national security purposes and apparatus. | 用于国家安全目的和装备。 |
| 85 | However, this isn't just something | 不过,这不只是一件事 |
| 86 | that happens in authoritarian countries, | 发生在专制国家, |
| 87 | very much so in liberal Western democracies | 自由的西方民主国家就是这样 |
| 88 | like the UK and the US. | 就像英国和美国 |
| 89 | I want to quote something quite disturbing | 我想引用一些令人不安的东西 |
| 90 | from the UK Home Secretary, Shebana Mahmood. | 来自英国内政大臣谢巴纳·马哈茂德. |
| 91 | In an interview with Tony Blair, | 在接受托尼·布莱尔的采访时 |
| 92 | she described her vision for using artificial intelligence | 她描述了自己利用人工智能的愿景 |
| 93 | to be used in criminal justice. | 用于刑事司法。 |
| 94 | 她引用了Jeremy Bentham的阴茎 | |
| 95 | Now, if you haven't heard of Jeremy Bentham's panectogons, | 现在,如果你还没有听说过杰里米・本特姆的阴道, |
| 96 | imagine you're in a prison where the eyes of the state | 想象你在监狱里 国家的眼睛 |
| 97 | could always be on you. | 可能永远在你身上。 |
| 98 | However, you don't know whether they're actually watching you, | 不过,你不知道他们是否真的在监视你 |
| 99 | but the fact that you believe that you could be watched | 但你们确信自己是被监视的, |
| 100 | changes your behavior forever. | 永远改变你的行为 |
| 101 | I wish you were right. | 我希望你是对的 |
| 102 | As someone who studies this problem | 作为研究这个问题的人 |
| 103 | from a technical point of view, | 从技术角度来看, |
| 104 | even those who are training the systems don't know how they work, | 即使那些正在训练系统的人 也不知道如何运作, |
| 105 | let alone those who are governing it. | 更不要说那些管理它的人了。 |
| 106 | So when these cameras are searching for one person in a crowd, | 所以当这些摄像机在人群中寻找一个人时 |
| 107 | it examines all faces. | 它检查所有的面孔。 |
| 108 | In fact, on my way to Cambridge, | 事实上,在去剑桥的路上, |
| 109 | I took a very striking photo at King's Cross. | 我在国王十字架上拍了一张照片 |
| 110 | The cameras with 360-degree view, | 有360度视线的摄像头 |
| 111 | they're taking images of every person passing through King's Cross, | 他们正在拍摄每个通过国王十字的人的照片, |
| 112 | and that should be disturbing for us. | 这应该令我们感到不安。 |
| 113 | We used to ask whether governments could watch everyone, | 我们曾经问政府能否监视所有人 |
| 114 | but now we ask whether citizens can watch | 但现在我们问市民能否观看 |
| 115 | and determine what governments are doing. | 并确定政府正在做什么。 |
| 116 | And that brings me to my second point. | 这让我想到我的第二点。 |
| 117 | Who can explain the decisions these systems allow us to make, | 谁能解释这些系统允许我们作出的决定, |
| 118 | very similar to the point that the gentleman just raised? | 和刚才那位先生提出的观点非常相似? |
| 119 | In 2013, the Dutch tax authorities began using an algorithm | 2013年,荷兰税务当局开始使用算法 |
| 120 | to identify possible fraud involving children benefits. | 查明可能涉及儿童福利的欺诈行为。 |
| 121 | Sounds reasonable. | 听起来很合理 |
| 122 | We want to use technology in order to determine | 我们想用技术来决定 |
| 123 | how to improve society in different ways. | 如何以不同的方式改善社会。 |
| 124 | However, if systems are used for the purpose of catching fraud, | 不过,如果系统被用来抓住欺诈, |
| 125 | it also allows you to not necessarily make the right decisions. | 这也让你不必做出正确的决定。 |
| 126 | Over the following years that this technology was in use | 在接下来的几年中,这种技术被使用 |
| 127 | in the Dutch government, | 在荷兰政府, |
| 128 | hundreds of thousands of families became caught up in wrongfully | 几十万个家庭被错误地卷入其中 |
| 129 | for using funds in ways that were unlawful. | 以非法方式使用资金。 |
| 130 | Some even lost their homes. | 有些人甚至失去了家园。 |
| 131 | Now imagine if you are one of these parents. | 现在想象一下如果你是这些父母之一。 |
| 132 | You have done nothing wrong. | 你没有做错什么。 |
| 133 | Subsequently, if you asked why me, | 后来 如果你问我为什么 |
| 134 | you wouldn't get a straight answer. | 你不会得到一个直接的答案。 |
| 135 | Remember, this is not a dictatorship. | 记住 这不是独裁统治 |
| 136 | This is a Western liberal democracy that used an AI system | 这是一个西方自由民主 使用AI系统 |
| 137 | to determine who is using funds inappropriately. | 确定谁不适当地使用资金。 |
| 138 | The governments eventually resigned. | 政府最终辞职. |
| 139 | No, thank you. | 不 谢谢 |
| 140 | The governments eventually resigned over the scandal, | 政府最终因丑闻辞职, |
| 141 | but that took years. | 但花了好几年时间 |
| 142 | To the very fact that you have AI systems | 因为你有人工智能系统 |
| 143 | that are automating the process for efficiency | 正在使进程自动化以提高效率 |
| 144 | could cause huge amounts of harms. | 可能会造成巨大的伤害 |
| 145 | And here's a question for you. | 给你个问题 |
| 146 | What is good if your appeal | 如果你上诉有什么好处 |
| 147 | cannot even be understood by the decision maker? | 决策者甚至无法理解? |
| 148 | Now, that was one kind of algorithm failure. | 这是一种算法失败。 |
| 149 | You could say, as engineers, as developers, | 你可以说,作为工程师, 作为开发者, |
| 150 | we patch systems, we build them, and we iterate over them. | 我们修补系统,建造系统, 并覆盖系统。 |
| 151 | But many people working on AI safety, security, | 但很多在AI安全工作的人, |
| 152 | interpretability will tell you that it's virtually not possible, | 解释性会告诉你 这几乎是不可能的, |
| 153 | at least in today's world, to understand how the systems work. | 至少在当今世界, 了解系统是如何运作的。 |
| 154 | And that's something rather worrying. | 这很令人担忧 |
| 155 | In an experiment, researchers at Anthropic acknowledged using... | 在一次实验中,Anthropic的研究人员承认使用了... |
| 156 | When you give AI systems a hint, | 当你给AI系统一个提示, |
| 157 | and they use hints in their computations, | 他们在他们的计算中,将有许多迹象, |
| 158 | they may not always determine or acknowledge that they have used. | 它们可能并不总是确定或承认它们曾经使用过。 |
| 159 | So the very fact that the systems can explain their behaviour, | 所以系统可以解释它们的行为 |
| 160 | it doesn't necessarily mean that either they're right | 不一定意味着他们都是对的 |
| 161 | or you can understand what's going on. | 或者你能理解发生了什么 |
| 162 | Now, on my third point, who controls what we see before we vote? | 现在,关于我的第三点,谁控制我们投票前所看到的? |
| 163 | We often say that the internet has democratised information, | 我们经常说, 互联网已经实现了信息民主化, |
| 164 | and that's true. | 这是真的。 |
| 165 | Now you can reach hundreds of millions of people | 现在你可以到达亿万人民 |
| 166 | in a click of a button. | 在单击按钮时。 |
| 167 | However, that doesn't mean that you will be heard. | 但是,这并不意味着你会被听到。 |
| 168 | You know, democracy is not just about being able to be seen, | 你知道,民主不仅仅是 被看到, |
| 169 | but also being able to be heard. | 但也能够被听到 |
| 170 | To conclude, I believe there are two groups of people | 最后,我认为有两个群体 |
| 171 | that are going to be watching the results of today's debate. | 他们将观看今天辩论的结果。 |
| 172 | One are the people that came before us, | 一个是来到我们面前的人, |
| 173 | who felt really hard for us to be able to vote | 他们觉得我们很难投票 |
| 174 | and to exercise our right to freedom of speech. | 行使言论自由的权利。 |
| 175 | Sometimes they're paid with ultimate sacrifice. | 有时,他们得到的报酬是终极牺牲。 |
| 176 | And then there's the other group, our children, grandchildren, | 还有另一组 我们的子孙 |
| 177 | the people that may come after us, if there is an after. | 那些追随我们的人 如果有后盾的话 |
| 178 | What are we going to answer to them? | 我们要怎么回答他们? |
| 179 | Are they going to ask us why we didn't develop technologies | 他们要问我们为什么不开发技术 |
| 180 | that are much more capable and more powerful, | 更有能力 更强大, |
| 181 | or technology that we couldn't understand and control | 或者我们无法理解和控制的技术 |
| 182 | and that had eroded the very democracy that we've had so hard to build? | 却侵蚀了我们所建设的民主? |
| 183 | I beg to oppose the motion. | 我恳求反对这个动议。 |
| 184 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 185 | Thank you very much, Basil. | 非常感谢,巴西尔。 |
| 186 | We now move across the floor to our first speaker in opposition, | 我们现在跨过会场,请第一位反对者发言。 |
| 187 | Dr Gina Neff, | 吉娜・内夫博士 |
| 188 | Professor of Responsible AI at Queen Mary University of London | 伦敦玛丽女王大学负责AI教授 |
| 189 | and runs the Minderoo Centre for Technology and Democracy at Cambridge. | 并管理剑桥Minderoo技术和民主中心。 |
| 190 | She is Deputy CEO of UKRI Responsible AI UK | 她是英国RI公司的副总裁 |
| 191 | and shares the Wales Strategic AI Advisory Council. | 并共享威尔士战略AI咨询理事会。 |
| 192 | Her books include Venture Labour, Self-Trafficking | 她的书包括《风险劳工》和《自残》 |
| 193 | and Human-Centred Data Science. | 和以人为中心的数据科学。 |
| 194 | And she led the team behind the A to Z of AI, | 她带领队伍 在AI的A到Z后面, |
| 195 | which won a 2021 Webby and reached over a million people in 17 languages. | 它赢得了2021年Webby的比赛,并以17种语言达到超过100万人. |
| 196 | Dr Gina, you have the years of the house. | 吉娜医生,你有房子的岁月 |
| 197 | Thank you, Mr President. | 谢谢你,总统先生。 |
| 198 | And thank you to the proposition. | 谢谢你的提议。 |
| 199 | You've given us a very vivid tour of the things we have to fear, | 你给了我们一个非常生动的巡演 我们不得不害怕的东西, |
| 200 | of the damage that has been done, | 所造成的损害, |
| 201 | the feeds that have been turned into outrage, | 已变成愤慨的饲料, |
| 202 | the deepfakes, the surveillance, | 深层的假象 监视 |
| 203 | the data taken without our consent and used against us. | 未经我们同意而获取的数据 以及用来对付我们的数据 |
| 204 | I will not stand here and wish that away | 我不会站在这里,希望你离开 |
| 205 | and say that it's not true. | 并说不实. |
| 206 | It is. | 没错 |
| 207 | On the symptoms, I think we can agree. | 关于症状,我想我们可以同意。 |
| 208 | Where we part company, though, is on the diagnosis. | 我们分公司的地方,虽然, 是在诊断。 |
| 209 | Every argument that you have heard, | 你们所听到的每一个论点, |
| 210 | you will hear tonight from the other side, | 今晚你会从另一边听到 |
| 211 | rests on an assumption | 假设 |
| 212 | that negates every single one of you in this chamber. | 这否定了你们在座的每一个人。 |
| 213 | It takes you for granted. | 它认为你是理所当然的。 |
| 214 | That hidden assumption is technological determinism. | 这种隐蔽的假设是技术决定论。 |
| 215 | It's the idea that technology sets the course of history. | 科技开创历史道路的理念. |
| 216 | Machines arrive and we are hapless in their face. | 机器来了,我们面对他们很不幸 |
| 217 | Society adapts to them. | 社会适应他们. |
| 218 | Tools act and people are acted upon. | 工具法案和人们被采取行动。 |
| 219 | The motion in its very wording | B. 动议的措辞 |
| 220 | basically takes all of us in this historic chamber for granted, | 基本上,我们在这个历史性的会议厅里是理所当然的, |
| 221 | and I, for one, refuse to accept that. | 我拒绝接受这一点。 |
| 222 | The historian Thomas Hughes spent his career | 历史学家托马斯·休斯度过了他的职业生涯 |
| 223 | looking at how Europe and the United States | 展望欧洲和美国 |
| 224 | developed electricity and technology | 发展电力和技术 |
| 225 | in the 19th and early 20th century. | 19世纪和20世纪初 |
| 226 | And the world was made. | 而世间众生. |
| 227 | It was made by engineers, it was made by financiers, | 由工程师制造,由金融家制造 |
| 228 | by city councils, by regulators, and yes, by voters. | 由市议会,监管者, 和是的,选民。 |
| 229 | His conclusion was technology is an expression of human creativity | 他的结论是技术是人类创造力的体现 |
| 230 | and that the stories we tell about technologies | 我们讲述的科技故事 |
| 231 | help to shape those technologies. | 帮助塑造这些技术。 |
| 232 | I'm going to come back to that idea of the stories | 我会回到那个故事的想法 |
| 233 | that we tell about the technologies today. | 今天我们来谈谈技术 |
| 234 | The world of technology, the technologies in our world | 技术世界,我们世界的技术 |
| 235 | are not magical, they are not God-given, they are human-built. | 他们不是神赐予的 而是人造的 |
| 236 | They're built by people and that means | 他们由人建造,这意味着 |
| 237 | that they can be built differently. | 他们可以不同的方式建造。 |
| 238 | We can tell different stories about the kinds of futures we want. | 我们可以讲述我们想要的未来的不同故事。 |
| 239 | The story the proposition will tell is not new. | 提议要讲的故事不是新的。 |
| 240 | It's very popular, however, in Silicon Valley. | 然而在硅谷非常流行. |
| 241 | It's popular, it was popular in Washington, DC, too, | 广受欢迎 在华盛顿特区也很受欢迎 |
| 242 | until Tuesday night. | 到星期二晚上为止 |
| 243 | The story, that story says that technology is coming | 故事说科技即将到来 |
| 244 | whether or not we like it | 不管我们是否喜欢 |
| 245 | and whether or not we do anything about it. | 无论我们是否做任何事情。 |
| 246 | It's too fast for people to govern. | 人民治理太快. |
| 247 | We're too dumb to govern the complexity of technology. | 我们太笨了,不能管理技术的复杂性。 |
| 248 | That's that story. | 就是这样 |
| 249 | So the sensible thing to do, logically, | 所以,明智的事情做,逻辑上, |
| 250 | is to outsource our moral and political decisions. | 将我们的道德和政治决定外包出去。 |
| 251 | The compass that allows us to understand who we are, | 指南针 允许我们了解我们是谁, |
| 252 | outsource that to the chatbots and the apps | 外包给聊天机和应用程序 |
| 253 | that increasingly form the infrastructure of our society. | 这日益构成我们社会的基础设施。 |
| 254 | The problem with technological determinism | 技术决定主义的问题 |
| 255 | is it's moving power away from people. | 这是在转移权力 远离人。 |
| 256 | It's a story that plays into the hands of people | 这是一个故事 玩到人们的手中 |
| 257 | who build the technology. | 谁是技术建设者。 |
| 258 | They get to be the only heroes of the story they are telling. | 他们只能成为故事的英雄 |
| 259 | I have news for you. | 我有一个消息给你。 |
| 260 | The world is not built in Palo Alto. | 世界不是在帕洛阿尔托建造的. |
| 261 | A youth organiser in Lagos, a fact-checker in Malaysia, | 在拉各斯的青年组织者,马来西亚的一位事实检查者, |
| 262 | a Welsh granny on a WhatsApp group, | 一个威尔士祖母在WhatsApp集团, |
| 263 | a union rep in Leeds. | 利兹的工会代表 |
| 264 | They are using the same technologies, | 他们使用同样的技术, |
| 265 | but the outcomes and what they do with them | 但结果和他们的行为, |
| 266 | and the stories they tell about them are different. | 他们所讲述的故事是不同的。 |
| 267 | What's different is not the technology. | 不同的是技术。 |
| 268 | Yes? | 是吗? |
| 269 | All of them are small. | 皆为小. |
| 270 | I appreciate the question, | 我很感激这个问题, |
| 271 | and certainly this speech is not slopped. | 这部经文,确是不朽的。 |
| 272 | This is the hard-earned effort of a PhD. | 这是博士辛苦付出的努力。 |
| 273 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 274 | Excuse me. | 对不起。 |
| 275 | So, if technology determines outcomes, | 所以,如果技术决定了结果, |
| 276 | it would determine a similarity. | 它将决定一种相似性。 |
| 277 | It would flatten the world, and that is not what we see. | 它会使世界变得平坦,而这并不是我们所看到的。 |
| 278 | What makes us different are our institutions, | 使我们不同之处在于我们的机构 |
| 279 | our communities, our laws, | 我们的社区,我们的法律, |
| 280 | the things that make us human | 成为人类的东西 |
| 281 | are the things that are making us different. | 是那些让我们不同的东西。 |
| 282 | Now, the story my colleagues in the opposition | 现在,我的反对派同事的故事 |
| 283 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}会告诉今晚 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}而且会一直说 | |
| 284 | is that we all have power and agency | 我们都有权力和权力 |
| 285 | to determine our futures. | 来决定我们的未来 |
| 286 | That's the democratic ideal, | 这是民主的理想 |
| 287 | and no tool can take that away from us. | 没有任何工具能夺走我们的生命 |
| 288 | Only we can surrender democracy. | 只有我们才能放弃民主 |
| 289 | And it's this process of negotiation. | 这是谈判的过程。 |
| 290 | Making good technology is a lot like | 做好技术是很像的 |
| 291 | what we're doing in this debate. | 我们在这次辩论中所做的一切。 |
| 292 | We get around and we argue it out. | 我们四处走动 争辩出来 |
| 293 | We negotiate with one another. | 我们彼此谈判。 |
| 294 | So, what's actually a voting democracy? | 那么,什么是投票民主制? |
| 295 | If it's not technology, what is it? | 如果这不是科技,那又是什么? |
| 296 | I would argue and present it's autocracy, | 我将争辩并提出这是专制, |
| 297 | it's oligarchy, it's power concentrated | 寡头政治 权力集中 |
| 298 | in fewer and fewer hands. | 手越来越少 |
| 299 | It's wealth that is pulled over deeper pockets | 财富被挖得更深 |
| 300 | of inequality in more unequal countries. | 不平等的国家的不平等。 |
| 301 | These forces are not technological, | 这些力量不是技术的 |
| 302 | they are social. | 他们是社交的。 |
| 303 | And they are made by the choices that people are making. | 它们是由人们的选择作出的。 |
| 304 | When the world's richest man wanted to influence | 当世界上最富有的人想要影响 |
| 305 | democracy in America, | 美国的民主, |
| 306 | it was not technology that got him there. | 不是技术让他来的 |
| 307 | It was checks for hundreds of millions of dollars. | 是几亿美金的支票 |
| 308 | It didn't work this time, by the way. | 顺便说一句,这次不行 |
| 309 | That's not the point. | 这不是重点。 |
| 310 | The point that we're saying is it's not the technology | 我们要说的是 这不是技术 |
| 311 | that made him the richest man in the world, | 使他成为世界上最富有的人, |
| 312 | it's the concentration of power and how he used it. | 这是权力的集中 和他如何使用它。 |
| 313 | It was not inevitable that that would be the case. | 情况并非不可避免的。 |
| 314 | No, thank you. | 不 谢谢 |
| 315 | I want to leave you with the words of Maria Reza, | 我想把玛丽亚·雷萨的话留给你 |
| 316 | a Nobel Prize winner, | 一个诺贝尔奖得主, |
| 317 | who has just written a book called The Fight Back, | 他刚刚写了一本名为"反击"的书, |
| 318 | a citizen's guide to standing up to, | 公民的指南 站起来, |
| 319 | and she gives you three lessons. | 她给你三课 |
| 320 | She says, first, understand the stakes, | 她说,首先, 理解赌注, |
| 321 | second, defend yourself and your communities | 第二,保护自己和你的社区 |
| 322 | and your institutions, | 和你的机构, |
| 323 | and third, build the world you want to see. | 第三,建立你想看到的世界。 |
| 324 | She dedicates the book to you. | 她把书献给你 |
| 325 | She says, you who stand on the rubble of the world that was | 她说,你站在世界的废墟上 |
| 326 | and can build the world that should be. | 并能够建立应该存在的世界。 |
| 327 | So do not let anyone, | 所以不要让任何人, |
| 328 | least of all the people trying to sell you shiny new toys, | 尤其是那些想卖你新玩具的人 |
| 329 | deny you that power. | 否认你的力量。 |
| 330 | I beg to oppose. | 我恳求反对。 |
| 331 | Thank you very much, Gina. | 非常感谢,吉娜。 |
| 332 | Order, please. | 请安静 |
| 333 | We now move on to our first round of floor speeches. | 我们现在进行第一轮发言。 |
| 334 | Please try to keep your speech around three minutes long. | 请尽量保持您的演讲 大约三分钟长。 |
| 335 | Would anyone like to speak in proposition to the motion? | 有人想就动议发言吗? |
| 336 | Yes, please, name and college. | 是的,请,名字和大学。 |
| 337 | I would like to speak for the proposition | 我想代表这个提议 |
| 338 | that technology has eroded democracy, | 技术侵蚀了民主, |
| 339 | and I mean that technology as one of the factors | 我的意思是,技术作为因素之一 |
| 340 | that is contributing to the erosion of democracy. | 这助长了民主的削弱。 |
| 341 | To persuade your minds, I would use the evidentiary rule | 为了说服你,我会用证据规则 |
| 342 | of preponderance of probabilities. | 可能性的优势。 |
| 343 | It means that both sides have solid arguments, | 意思是双方都有坚实的论据 |
| 344 | and the arguments in favor of proposition | 和赞成主张的论点 |
| 345 | weigh the scales a bit down towards my side, | 将天秤从我这边压下来一点 |
| 346 | which makes my side stronger. | 这让我的一方更强大。 |
| 347 | Let's start with the pros on how technology has supported democracy. | 我们先从专业的角度来谈谈技术如何支持民主。 |
| 348 | In India, technology has led to greater transparency | 在印度,技术提高了透明度 |
| 349 | in having election affidavits made available to the public. | 向公众提供选举宣誓书。 |
| 350 | Any member of the public can do a meta-analysis | 任何市民都可以进行元分析 |
| 351 | of all the election affidavits of all the candidates | 所有候选人的所有选举宣誓书 |
| 352 | standing from all the political parties at one go. | 站在所有政党一边 |
| 353 | Campaign manifestos and messaging reach masses at a new scale. | 运动宣言和讯息以新的规模传达给大众。 |
| 354 | It gives people the choice between choosing candidates. | 它让人们在选择候选人之间做出选择. |
| 355 | Political startups that used to take 10, 15 years to make an impact | 过去需要10、15年才能产生影响的政治初创企业 |
| 356 | are now able to do that in two to three years. | 现在可以在两三年内做到这一点。 |
| 357 | The recent victory of Vijay in Tamil Nadu | 维杰最近在泰米尔纳德邦的胜利 |
| 358 | and the launch of Jan Suraj Party in Bihar | 扬·苏拉杰党在比哈尔的成立 |
| 359 | are prime examples of that. | 这是主要的例子。 |
| 360 | It also makes leaders more relatable. | 这也使领导人更加易得。 |
| 361 | If you see Andy Berman, he's on social media, | 如果你见到安迪·伯曼 他在社交媒体上 |
| 362 | and at the Cambridge Union Debate a couple of weeks ago, | 几周前在剑桥大学辩论会上 |
| 363 | we saw that that was a major point in favor of technology. | 我们发现这是支持技术的要点。 |
| 364 | But let's take a step back. | 但是我们退一步 |
| 365 | What is democracy? | 什么是民主? |
| 366 | Democracy is the delegation of sovereign, constituent power, | 民主是主权、组成权、 |
| 367 | constituent power of the people | 人民的组成权 |
| 368 | to govern themselves to a representative body. | 将自己治理为具有代表性的机构。 |
| 369 | In this process of delegation, | 在这一授权过程中, |
| 370 | we employ a process called elections. | 我们用一个叫做选举的过程。 |
| 371 | My argument is that technology has gone so far | 我的论点是技术已经发展到现在 |
| 372 | as to make the degree of free will of the people | 以达到人民自由意志的程度; |
| 373 | highly amenable to lobbyists, | 对于说客们, |
| 374 | advertisements, and pressure groups. | 广告和压力集团 |
| 375 | People from America would know that campaign financing | 美国人会知道竞选资金 |
| 376 | is done through the PACs, political action committees. | 通过政党委员会、政治行动委员会进行。 |
| 377 | In California, currently Sergey Bin | 在加州,目前是谢尔盖·宾 |
| 378 | has spent 102 million US dollars against Proposition 40 | 在提案40下花费了1.02亿美元 |
| 379 | to tax 5% on the billionaires in the UK. | 对英国亿万富翁征税5%。 |
| 380 | Closer to home, my UK home, | 离家更近 我的英国家 |
| 381 | Cambridge Analytica,曾参与2016年特朗普选举. | |
| 382 | and in the Leave EU campaign as well. | 也参与了欧盟的休假运动。 |
| 383 | Back in India, political parties profile, sort, | 在印度, 政党概况, 排序, |
| 384 | and target ethnographic, communal, economic, and other vote banks. | 以及目标民族、社区、经济和其他投票银行。 |
| 385 | The pervasive nature of these targeted marketing | 这些有针对性的营销的普及性 |
| 386 | leads to an insanely powerful technology usage | 导致一个疯狂强大的技术使用 |
| 387 | that we have not seen hitherto before. | 我们以前从未见过的。 |
| 388 | This is not even addressing voter manipulation, | 这甚至没有解决选民操纵问题, |
| 389 | election manipulation, disinformation, misinformation, | 操纵选举、造谣、造谣 |
| 390 | AI slop, and fraud that is now happening at scale. | AI的失败, 和欺诈正在发生的规模。 |
| 391 | To conclude, the power of technology, | 最后,技术的力量, |
| 392 | such powerful, scalable, and immensely powerful technology | 如此强大、可伸缩和强大的技术 |
| 393 | to influence citizenry decision-making in electoral processes | 影响公民在选举进程中的决策 |
| 394 | compromises directly the consequence, | 直接降低后果, |
| 395 | directly the concept of democracy. | 民主的概念。 |
| 396 | What for the proposition? | 什么建议? |
| 397 | Because we are recognizing a present-day fact. | 因为我们承认一个今天的事实。 |
| 398 | Recognizing this fact that technology has eroded democracy | 认识到技术侵蚀了民主这一事实, |
| 399 | can help us mitigate and take steps to addressing this. | 能够帮助我们减轻和采取步骤解决这一问题。 |
| 400 | Hence, what for the proposition? | 因此,这个提议有什么意义? |
| 401 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 402 | Would anyone like to speak in opposition to the motion? | 有人反对动议吗? |
| 403 | Hold on. | 坚持住。 |
| 404 | To the member over here. | 给这里的成员 |
| 405 | Name and college, please. | 姓名和大学,请。 |
| 406 | Eduardo, St. John's College. | 爱德华多,圣约翰学院. |
| 407 | I'd like to speak for opposition tonight | 今晚我想代表反对派发言 |
| 408 | for the very first reason that technology | 以技术为首要原因 |
| 409 | has enabled the democratization of access to venues of contestation. | 使进入竞争场所的民主化。 |
| 410 | In a society where you cannot contest power, | 在一个你无法对抗权力的社会里 |
| 411 | we fall into the realm of oppression | 我们陷入压迫的境界 |
| 412 | because then you cannot speak up against those who are ruling you. | 因为你不能对统治你的人说话。 |
| 413 | In older times, when we only had access to printed press, | 在以前,当我们只有 接触印刷机, |
| 414 | who could speak up? | 谁能说话? |
| 415 | Who had access to putting an opinion out there? | 谁能在那里发表意见? |
| 416 | But with social media, any person can record a video | 但是有了社交媒体 任何人都可以录影 |
| 417 | and speak the truth. | 并说真话。 |
| 418 | And power will have to bear with how many views | 权力必须承受 多少观点 |
| 419 | or repercussions the video gets. | 或影响 视频得到。 |
| 420 | Of course, there is an algorithm | 当然有算法 |
| 421 | that may not offer equal access to repercussion. | 可能无法提供同等的打击机会。 |
| 422 | However, it's still a considerable progress | 不过,这还是个很大的进步 |
| 423 | from the times when we only had printed press. | 从那时起,我们只有印刷机。 |
| 424 | And my second argument revolves around | 我的第二个争论围绕着 |
| 425 | the progress that technology allowed. | 技术带来的进步。 |
| 426 | When we think through the evolution of income per capita | 当我们通过人均收入的演变来思考 |
| 427 | and what that has allowed us to just have longer lives | 以及那些让我们能长寿的东西 |
| 428 | and enjoy more the fruition of democracy, | 并享受民主的成果, |
| 429 | if we compare with the best | 如果我们与最好的 |
| 430 | when we didn't have enough food on the table, | 当我们没有足够的食物在桌上, |
| 431 | how could we then be able to participate in a community, | 那么,我们如何能够参与一个社区, |
| 432 | discuss our ideas, and decide for the common good? | 讨论我们的想法,并为了共同利益作出决定? |
| 433 | So the welfare, the technology allowed to be increased | 因此,福利,技术 允许增加 |
| 434 | is precisely the welfare that democracy rests upon. | 民主所依赖的福利正是如此。 |
| 435 | Point of information. | 信息点. |
| 436 | We have yet incredible progress to make, | 我们还要取得令人难以置信的进展, |
| 437 | but let's compare when child mortality was incredibly high | 但让我们比较一下,当儿童死亡率非常高的时候 |
| 438 | or when the vast majority of the population | 或绝大多数人口 |
| 439 | {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}必须依靠天气 {\fn黑体\fs22\bord1\shad0\3aHBE\4aH00\fscx67\fscy66\2cHFFFFFF\3cH808080}我不得不依赖天气 | |
| 440 | in order to make sure that they would have food the next day. | 以确保他们第二天有食物。 |
| 441 | So, of course, progress has been made, | 当然,已经取得了进展, |
| 442 | and it is precisely because of the progress that has been made | 正是因为已经取得的进展, |
| 443 | that we can then participate with more time | 然后我们就能有更多的时间参与 |
| 444 | and with better focus on our community life. | 更关注我们的社区生活 |
| 445 | And the very last point I would like to make | 我想说的最后一点 |
| 446 | in why technology has not eroded democracy | 技术没有侵蚀民主的原因 |
| 447 | revolves around, I would say, | 绕着我说 |
| 448 | the cornerstone of what allows us to think of a better future, | 是让我们思考更美好未来的基石, |
| 449 | which is the ability to create, | 这是创造的能力, |
| 450 | the ability to innovate. | 创新的能力。 |
| 451 | Innovation is such a cornerstone of democracy, | 创新是民主的基石, |
| 452 | because without that, we cannot arrive at better ideas, | 因为没有这些,我们就无法找到更好的想法, |
| 453 | we cannot land in better solutions. | 我们无法找到更好的解决办法。 |
| 454 | So if we try to curtail technology | 所以,如果我们试图削减技术 |
| 455 | in order to stop its obstacles to democracy, | 为了结束民主的障碍, |
| 456 | we would be then curtailing human creativity, | 然后我们就会减少人类的创造力 |
| 457 | which is the precise reason why democracy makes us reach a better place. | 这就是民主使我们到达一个更好的地方的确切原因。 |
| 458 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 459 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 460 | Would anyone like to speak in abstention to the motion? | 有人想对动议投弃权票吗? |
| 461 | Yes, please, name and college. | 是的,请,名字和大学。 |
| 462 | Thanks for this whole technology versus democracy debate, right? | 谢谢你的科技与民主辩论,对吧? |
| 463 | Because two days ago, I completely was with the proposition, | 因为两天前 我完全同意这个提议 |
| 464 | because if you look at the capital, | 因为如果你看看首都 |
| 465 | a quarterly expenditure by the five big brothers, | 五大兄弟的季度开支, |
| 466 | or what we call the proligarchy, | 或者我们所说的无产阶级, |
| 467 | which is Amazon, Meta, Google, and we know the other two, | 亚马逊,梅塔,谷歌,我们知道另外两个 |
| 468 | it has increased in the last five years | 近五年来增长 |
| 469 | from US$30 billion to US$180 billion, | 从300亿美元到1 800亿美元, |
| 470 | and there is this infrastructure being built. | 并且正在建造这种基础设施。 |
| 471 | It is being built in countries like India, where I come from, | 它正在印度这样的国家建造 我来自那里 |
| 472 | Google宣布这里的大型数据中心 叫做Tharulwada, | |
| 473 | which is near Port City, near Andhra Pradesh, | 靠近港口市 靠近安得拉邦 |
| 474 | and in one day, the name of that on the maps was changed | 有一天,地图上的名字被更改了 |
| 475 | 至Tharulwada数据中心和IT枢纽, | |
| 476 | but this is a place which was known for its cashews, marigolds, teak plantations. | 但这里以腰果、马力果、茶叶种植园闻名 |
| 477 | So in that regard, I do believe that democracy | 因此,在这方面,我相信民主 |
| 478 | has kind of been eroded by technology, | 受到技术的侵蚀, |
| 479 | and I was watching this video of one of the members | 我在看一个成员的录像 |
| 480 | of the Dalit community over there who was really disheartened | 在那里的达利特社区 谁真的心灰意冷 |
| 481 | because their land was being taken from them without their permission, | 因为他们的土地是未经他们许可而被剥夺的。 |
| 482 | and he said, what are we going to do? | 他说,我们该怎么办? |
| 483 | Are we going to live like beggars? | 我们要像乞丐一样生活吗? |
| 484 | For us, land is dignity. | 对我们来说,土地是尊严。 |
| 485 | But on the other hand, right, I feel we kind of get enabled | 但另一方面,是的,我觉得我们 有点被启用 |
| 486 | if you look at innovation in general | 如果你从总体上看创新 |
| 487 | and how there are these new founders which can vibe code | 和如何有这些新的创始人 能够感应代码 |
| 488 | and make amazing businesses, | 并创造惊人的生意, |
| 489 | and my friend Tom has an AI-enabled business, | 我的朋友汤姆有一个AI公司, |
| 490 | a sustainable AI business, | 一项可持续的AI业务, |
| 491 | and I'm working on something similar with Edge AI | 我在和Edge AI做类似的事情 |
| 492 | and small language modules. | 和小语言模块。 |
| 493 | So when you talk about technocracy, | 所以当你谈论技术民主, |
| 494 | yes, technocracy may have eroded democracy, | 是的 技术民主可能侵蚀了民主 |
| 495 | but when we talk about technology as a whole, | 但是,当我们谈论整个技术, |
| 496 | I feel like it has enabled us as well. | 我觉得它也让我们受益匪浅。 |
| 497 | But again, I feel like the power imbalance and all of that has increased. | 但是,我再次感到权力不平衡 和所有这一切已经增加。 |
| 498 | So what, Gina's work is related to that. | 因此,吉娜的作品与此相关. |
| 499 | I was reading a paper by her about can AI survive, | 我读了她一篇关于AI能活下来的论文 |
| 500 | can democracy survive AI, | 民主能否在大赦国际存活下来, |
| 501 | and she talks about how we need to democratise these systems | 她谈到我们需要如何 民主化这些系统 |
| 502 | instead of just blaming technology bad. | 而不是仅仅指责技术不好。 |
| 503 | That's why I feel like I'm going to abstain the motion. | 所以我觉得我要弃权了 |
| 504 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 505 | Okay, we now start our second round of paper speakers. | 好了,我们现在开始第二轮的纸质演讲。 |
| 506 | Speaking second in proposition to the motion is Kayla Howard Tripp, | 动议的第二位是凯拉·霍华德·特里普 |
| 507 | an MPhil student in politics and international studies at Newnham College. | 在纽汉姆学院学习政治和国际研究的MPhil学生。 |
| 508 | She has won the right to speak by open audition. | 她通过公开试镜获得了发言权。 |
| 509 | Kayla, you have the ears of the house. | 凯拉,你有房子的耳朵。 |
| 510 | Good evening, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. President and fellow debaters. | 晚上好 女士们先生们 总统先生和各位辩论员 |
| 511 | Technology has eroded democracy, | 技术侵蚀了民主 |
| 512 | and let me be clear what I mean by erosion. | 让我说清楚 侵蚀意味着什么 |
| 513 | Not collapse. | 没有崩溃。 |
| 514 | Erosion is a slow process. | 侵蚀是一个缓慢的过程。 |
| 515 | The building still stands while the foundations wear away. | 该建筑仍然站立着,而地基却逐渐耗尽. |
| 516 | Democracy does not just have to disappear for it to be eroded. | 民主不仅必须消失才能被侵蚀。 |
| 517 | It only stops doing its job. | 它只会停止工作 |
| 518 | And its job is quite simple. | 它的工作很简单。 |
| 519 | Power answers to the people, | 权力对人民, |
| 520 | not just a cross and a ballot paper every few years, | 不仅仅是十字架和选票 每几年, |
| 521 | but a voice, an accountable government, | 一个声音 一个负责的政府, |
| 522 | and decisions that are answerable to us. | 以及对我们负责的决定。 |
| 523 | I want to ask a question, then. | 我想问个问题 |
| 524 | If we can still vote, but increasingly cannot control the forces | 如果我们仍然可以投票,但越来越不能控制部队 |
| 525 | shaping what we see, what we think, and what we believe, | 塑造我们所见,所想,所信, |
| 526 | how democratic are we really? | 我们到底有多民主? |
| 527 | I'm not going to tell you a story or try to convince you today | 我不会告诉你一个故事 或试图说服你今天 |
| 528 | that technology has brought no benefits. | 技术并没有带来任何好处。 |
| 529 | It has exposed corruption and helped movements challenge the powerful. | 它揭露了腐败,帮助运动挑战强者。 |
| 530 | But we must distinguish between having more opportunities to participate | 但是我们必须区分 有更多的机会参与 |
| 531 | and having more power. | 并拥有更多的力量。 |
| 532 | Those are simply not the same thing. | 这些根本不是一回事。 |
| 533 | You will hear from experts tonight about what this technology can do. | 你今晚会从专家那里听到 这个技术能做什么。 |
| 534 | I want to ask a different question. | 我想问另一个问题 |
| 535 | Who decides? | 谁决定的? |
| 536 | I will make this in three points this evening. | 我今晚将谈三点。 |
| 537 | Firstly, technology has undermined the very information | 首先,技术破坏了信息本身 |
| 538 | on which democratic choice depends. | 民主选择取决于什么。 |
| 539 | Consider what this looks like in practice. | 想想这在实际上是什么样子。 |
| 540 | Ahead of the local May elections, | 在5月地方选举之前, |
| 541 | researchers at the UK Electoral Commission | 联合王国选举委员会研究员 |
| 542 | identified 219 political deepfakes, | 查明了219个政治漏洞, |
| 543 | views over a million times, | 超过一百万次观看, |
| 544 | with 15 of these meeting the threshold | 其中15个达到门槛值 |
| 545 | of proposing a direct risk to electoral integrity. | 提议直接危及选举的廉正。 |
| 546 | These posts included false candidate announcements, | 这些职位包括虚假的候选人通知, |
| 547 | stimulated campaign activities, | 刺激竞选活动, |
| 548 | and misleading details regarding the polling day. | 和关于投票日的误导性细节。 |
| 549 | But the greater danger here is not simply that we believe a lie. | 但这里更大的危险不仅仅是我们相信谎言。 |
| 550 | It's that we stop believing the truth at all. | 我们完全不再相信真相 |
| 551 | Because when technology makes it possible to fabricate a politician's words, | 因为当技术使得有可能 捏造政客的话, |
| 552 | it also makes it possible for politicians to dismiss their genuine words as fake. | 也使得政治家们有可能将他们的真言说成是假话。 |
| 553 | When seeing is no longer believing, | 当看见已不信道的时候, |
| 554 | every photograph can be questioned, every recording can be disputed, | 每张照片都可以被质疑 每张录音都可以被质疑 |
| 555 | every piece of evidence can be dismissed. | 每一个证据都可以驳回。 |
| 556 | And think what that does to us as voters. | 想想这对我们选民有什么影响 |
| 557 | Everyone in this room, instead of asking which argument is right, | 在这个房间里的每个人, 而不是问哪个论点是正确的, |
| 558 | they are left asking whether anything they hear is real at all. | 他们被留下 问他们听到的是不是真实的。 |
| 559 | Democracy depends on disagreement. | 民主取决于分歧。 |
| 560 | We should be arguing over policies, | 我们应该争论政策, |
| 561 | challenging politicians, and questioning those in power. | 挑战政客,质疑掌权者。 |
| 562 | But we cannot do that meaningfully | 但我们不能这样做 |
| 563 | if we don't share common understanding of the facts. | 如果我们对事实没有共同的理解 |
| 564 | Because democracy cannot survive when we no longer agree on what is true. | 因为如果我们不再就真相达成一致,民主就无法生存。 |
| 565 | Secondly, technology has handed the governments the off switch. | 第二,技术已经把政府 关闭开关。 |
| 566 | Democracy needs more than a vote. | 民主需要的不仅仅是表决。 |
| 567 | It needs the freedom to protest, to organize, and to challenge those in power. | 它需要抗议、组织和挑战掌权者的自由。 |
| 568 | And these freedoms now run through networks that someone else controls. | 这些自由现在通过别人控制的网络运行。 |
| 569 | In 2025, Access Now documented at least 313 deliberate internet shutdowns | 在2025年,Access Now记录了至少313次蓄意关闭互联网的事件. |
| 570 | across 52 countries. | 在52个国家。 |
| 571 | 300 times in a single year, world populations were swiftly disconnected. | 在一年中,世界人口迅速中断了300次。 |
| 572 | Like that. | 像这样 |
| 573 | And it's not only dictatorships. | 这不仅是独裁统治。 |
| 574 | Freedom House found that internet freedom has now declined for 15 years running. | 自由 House发现互联网自由已经持续了15年。 |
| 575 | And among these countries rated as free, | 在被评为自由国家的国家中 |
| 576 | Georgia, Germany, and the United States all went backwards. | 格鲁吉亚、德国和美国都倒退了。 |
| 577 | A government no longer needs to silent every critic. | 一个政府再也不需要让每个批评者保持沉默。 |
| 578 | It simply has to silence the channel they speak through. | 它只是需要关闭他们说话的渠道。 |
| 579 | Yes, go ahead. | 说吧 |
| 580 | I'm a bit confused by your question, sorry. | 我有点困惑 你的问题,对不起。 |
| 581 | Because what you're saying is that the government was able to shut down. | 因为你的意思是政府可以关闭 |
| 582 | I believe it was at least 15 of these were in relation to elections. | 我认为,其中至少有15项涉及选举。 |
| 583 | So you're shutting down the opposition and the opportunity to speak upon them. | 所以,你关闭了反对派 和机会谈论他们。 |
| 584 | Back to my point. | 回到我的观点。 |
| 585 | A government no longer needs to silence every critic, | 一个政府不再需要 压制每一个批评者, |
| 586 | and they just silence the channel. | 他们只是关闭频道。 |
| 587 | Notice the pattern. | 注意规律 |
| 588 | Whoever controls the conversation, whether it is state or company, | 不管是谁控制了谈话 无论是国家还是公司 |
| 589 | and that brings me to my fundamental problem. | 这让我想到我的根本问题 |
| 590 | Thirdly, technology is moving the political power out of the hands of the people | 第三,技术正在把政治权力从人民手中移走 |
| 591 | and into private hands. | 并交给私人。 |
| 592 | We have spent centuries fighting for one principle. | 我们花了几个世纪为一条原则而战。 |
| 593 | That those who hold power over our lives must answer to us. | 统治我们生活的人必须对我们负责。 |
| 594 | We built parliaments, elections, and courts to make sure of it. | 我们建立了议会、选举和法院以确保这一点。 |
| 595 | Yet today, some of the most consequential decisions in our political lives | 然而,今天,我们政治生活中的一些最重要的决定 |
| 596 | are being made by people we never elected. | 由我们从未选举过的人制造 |
| 597 | Cannot then directly challenge and often cannot even name. | 无法直接挑战, 也往往无法命名 。 |
| 598 | What information? | 什么情报? |
| 599 | No, I've already taken one. | 不,我已经吃了 |
| 600 | Consider social media. | 考虑社交媒体. |
| 601 | 71% of UK adults aged 16 to 24 used to keep up with the news. | 71%的16至24岁的英国成年人习惯于跟随新闻. |
| 602 | For an entire generation, these platforms have become their form of the newspaper, | 在整整一代人中,这些平台已经成为报纸的形式, |
| 603 | the television bulletin, and even the town square. | 电视公告,甚至镇广场。 |
| 604 | But there is a fundamental difference here. | 但这里有一个根本的不同。 |
| 605 | Traditional organizations report the news. | 传统组织报道新闻. |
| 606 | Social media platforms decide what news we get to see. | 社交媒体平台决定我们能看到什么新闻. |
| 607 | The algorithms determine which stories reach millions of people, | 算法决定了哪些故事会传遍数百万人 |
| 608 | which voices are amplified, and which are pushed out of sight. | 声音被放大,声音被推出视线。 |
| 609 | And these decisions aren't... | 这些决定不是... |
| 610 | Yes, go ahead. | 说吧 |
| 611 | Well, if 71% of UK adults 16 to 24 are getting all of their news on social media, | 如果71%的英国成年人 16到24岁的人 在社交媒体上得到了他们的所有消息 |
| 612 | then I think we should be asking more questions about the power | 我觉得我们应该多问一些关于权力的问题 |
| 613 | that is coming from behind them. | 是从他们的身后传来的。 |
| 614 | But yes, you could have the opportunity to not use them, | 但是,是的,你可以有机会 不使用它们, |
| 615 | but the majority of people do, | 但大多数人都这样做, |
| 616 | and therefore that's why we're having this conversation this evening. | 所以我们今晚才有谈话 |
| 617 | And no, I've already just come off one, | 不,我已经从一个开始, |
| 618 | and I do need to make some progress this evening. | 今晚我确实需要取得一些进展。 |
| 619 | And those decisions are not made by elected representatives. | 这些决定不是由当选代表作出的。 |
| 620 | They are made by private companies whose interest lies in profit and revenue. | 它们由私营公司制造,其利益在于利润和收入。 |
| 621 | But this power is no longer just about deciding what information reaches us. | 但这种力量不再仅仅是决定我们得到的信息。 |
| 622 | It is increasingly about shaping the information which we receive in the first place. | 它日益涉及我们最初收到的信息。 |
| 623 | No, I'm so sorry. | 不,对不起。 |
| 624 | I do need to make some more progress. | 我确实需要取得更多进展。 |
| 625 | One in five adults have used AI chatbot or an AI search tool | 五分之一的成年人使用过AI聊天机或AI搜索工具 |
| 626 | to find out about this year's elections alone. | 仅了解今年的选举情况。 |
| 627 | Yet researchers testing these tools during the Scottish elections specifically | 然而研究人员在苏格兰选举期间测试这些工具 |
| 628 | found that a third of their answers contained factual errors. | 他们的答复中有三分之一有事实错误。 |
| 629 | So we're increasingly relying on private technology companies | 所以我们越来越依赖私人科技公司 |
| 630 | not on only what to decide, what political instrument we receive, | 不只是决定什么, 我们得到什么政治工具, |
| 631 | but to provide the answers to the rich who understand it. | 但为有钱人提供答案 谁理解它。 |
| 632 | So ask yourself this. | 所以问问你自己吧 |
| 633 | When a politician misleads you, you can vote them out. | 当政客误导你时,你就可以把他们赶出去. |
| 634 | When an algorithm misleads you, who do you vote out? | 当一个算法误导你时,你会投票给谁? |
| 635 | No, sorry. | 不,对不起。 |
| 636 | Again, I just need to make some progress with this speech this evening. | 再说一遍,我今晚的演讲需要取得一些进展。 |
| 637 | We cannot vote out an algorithm. | 我们不能淘汰一个算法。 |
| 638 | We cannot hold a technology executive to account | 我们不能让科技主管负责 |
| 639 | the same way we can hold an elected representative to account. | 我们同样可以追究当选代表的责任。 |
| 640 | And this is not just a theoretical concern. | 这不仅仅是一个理论问题。 |
| 641 | The Electoral Commission found that 44% of people who were concerned | 选举委员会发现,44%的有关人员是 |
| 642 | about inadequate control of political activity on social media. | 社会媒体对政治活动的控制不足。 |
| 643 | This is nearly half of the country saying that this is not properly governed. | 这是近一半的国家说,这没有得到适当的管理。 |
| 644 | And yet the regulation is on the floor. | 条例却在地板上 |
| 645 | And why? | 为什么? |
| 646 | Because the companies being regulated are some of the | 因为被监管的公司是其中的一部分 |
| 647 | richest and best lobbied organizations in history, | 历史上最富有和最好的游说组织 |
| 648 | and they own the very platforms on which politicians campaign. | 他们拥有政治人物竞选的平台 |
| 649 | The people who write rules need the platforms to reach the voters. | 写规则的人需要平台到达选民手中. |
| 650 | That is a referee sponsored by the players. | 这是球员赞助的裁判 |
| 651 | Now, the opposition will tell you about the online petitions | 现在,反对派会告诉你 关于网上请愿 |
| 652 | and the ability of ordinary citizens to challenge powerful institutions. | 以及普通公民挑战强大机构的能力。 |
| 653 | They are right. | 他们说得对。 |
| 654 | These are indeed powerful benefits that come with technology. | 这些确实是技术带来的巨大好处。 |
| 655 | But giving a people a platform is not the same as giving them power over that platform. | 但是,给予人民一个平台,与赋予他们对该平台的权力不同。 |
| 656 | Being allowed to speak is not simply the same as being heard. | 被允许发言并不仅仅是被听到。 |
| 657 | We must not confuse participation with power. | 我们决不能把参与与权力混为一谈。 |
| 658 | That is the distinction at the heart of this debate. | 这就是本次辩论的核心。 |
| 659 | 41% of the world's population, which is about 3.4 billion people, | 世界人口的41%, 大约34亿人, |
| 660 | now live in countries going backwards in democracy. | 现在生活在民主国家中。 |
| 661 | The average level of democracy for an average citizen in the world | 世界普通公民的平均民主水平 |
| 662 | has fallen back to 1978 levels. | 已经下降到1978年的水平。 |
| 663 | The pools that promise to liberate us arrive in the very decades | 承诺解放我们的游泳池 已经到了几十年 |
| 664 | democracy begins to retreat. | 民主开始退缩。 |
| 665 | They will say misinformation is nothing new. | 他们会说错误信息不是新鲜事 |
| 666 | It is not. | 事实并非如此。 |
| 667 | But the pamphlet here never controlled the printing press, | 但这里的小册子 从来没有控制印刷机, |
| 668 | the post office, and the town square all at once. | 邮局, 和镇广场都同时。 |
| 669 | They will say that this is a political problem, not a technological one. | 他们会说,这是一个政治问题,而不是技术问题。 |
| 670 | I say it is both. | 我说两者都是 |
| 671 | Technology did not invent the hunger for power, | 技术并没有制造出对权力的渴望, |
| 672 | but it built one of the most efficient machines for concentrating it | 但它制造了一台最高效的机器 来集中它 |
| 673 | we have ever seen and handed the keys to private companies. | 我们曾见过这些钥匙 交给私人公司 |
| 674 | So I leave this house with one final question. | 所以,我离开这个房子 最后一个问题。 |
| 675 | If we, the people, want to shape our political decisions, are not elected, | 如果我们,人民,想 塑造我们的政治决定, 不当选, |
| 676 | if the systems that influence our opinions are not accountable to us, | 如果影响我们意见的系统 不对我们负责, |
| 677 | and if the power to decide what we see and what we are told, | 如果能决定我们所看到的和被告知的 |
| 678 | what is true, rests in private hands, | 真实的,由私人掌握, |
| 679 | then who is exactly democracy working for? | 那么民主到底为谁服务? |
| 680 | Democracy does not have to disappear overnight for it to be eroded. | 民主不必一夜之间就消失,以免它受到侵蚀。 |
| 681 | It can survive in name while losing the very principle that gives it meaning. | 它可以在名义上生存,同时失去赋予它意义的原则. |
| 682 | And again, that principle is quite simple. | 同样,这一原则非常简单。 |
| 683 | Power belongs to the people. | 权力属于人民。 |
| 684 | Power belongs to us. | 权力属于我们。 |
| 685 | Technology is taking this away. | 科技正在夺走这个 |
| 686 | For these reasons, I proudly propose the motion. | 出于这些原因,我自豪地提出动议。 |
| 687 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 688 | Thank you very much, Kayla. | 非常感谢,凯拉。 |
| 689 | We now move across the floor to our second speaker in opposition, | 我们现在跨过发言的第二位反对者, |
| 690 | Dr. Maya Indira Ganesh, | 玛雅·英迪拉·加内什博士 |
| 691 | Assistant Research Professor and Associate Director | 助理研究教授兼副主任 |
| 692 | at the Lever Home Center for the Future of Intelligence | 在利弗未来情报中心 |
| 693 | at the University of Cambridge. | 在剑桥大学 |
| 694 | She studies the social, political, and cultural implications of AI | 她研究了大赦国际的社会、政治和文化影响。 |
| 695 | in public institutions and spaces, | 在公共机构和空间, |
| 696 | and co-directed LCFI's Masters in AI, Ethics, and Society. | 并共同执导LCFI在AI,伦理学,与社会方面的大师. |
| 697 | She is the author of Autocorrect, | 她是自动更正的作者, |
| 698 | The Fantasies and Failures of AI, Ethics, and the Driverless Car, | AI的幻想和失败 伦理 和无驾驶车, |
| 699 | and co-editor of the AI Anarchy's book. | 并担任AI无政府书的联合编辑. |
| 700 | Dr. Maya, you have the ears of the house. | 玛雅医生,你有房子的耳朵。 |
| 701 | Hi, everyone. | 大家好,你们好。 |
| 702 | Thank you so much for this invitation. | 非常感谢你的邀请 |
| 703 | I'm delighted to be here. | 我很高兴在这里。 |
| 704 | I will be arguing against the proposition that technology has eroded democracy. | 我将反对关于技术侵蚀民主的主张。 |
| 705 | I want you to consider that if we think of technology as an app or an agent | 我希望你能考虑一下 如果我们把科技当成一个应用或代理 |
| 706 | that works outside of the control of people, organizations, and movements, | 工作在人民、组织和运动控制之外, |
| 707 | then we are at risk of assuming that democracy is an output | 那我们就有可能认为民主是产出 |
| 708 | rather than a process, a process that people have agency in. | 而不是一个过程, 一个人们有代理的程序。 |
| 709 | As Gina has mentioned, technological determinism centers technology | 正如吉娜提到的,技术决定主义中心技术 |
| 710 | as the protagonist, the evil twin, | 作为主角 邪恶的双胞胎 |
| 711 | and the solution to the complexity of social and political life. | 解决社会和政治生活的复杂性。 |
| 712 | We have so fully swallowed this idea | 我们完全吞下了这个想法 |
| 713 | that we don't actually stop to look at who benefits from centering technology | 我们并不停下来看看谁从中心技术中受益 |
| 714 | and if it is really true. | 如果这是真的 |
| 715 | For as long as I can remember, every time there's been an election in India, | 只要我记得 每次在印度有选举 |
| 716 | almost any news report anywhere in the world will carry the trope of India | 几乎世界上任何地方的新闻报道 都会流传着印度 |
| 717 | as the world's largest democracy. | 作为世界上最大的民主国家。 |
| 718 | What they're usually referring to is the scale of this process, | 他们通常指的是这个过程的规模, |
| 719 | the systems, infrastructures, and people required for 968 million voters | 需要9.68亿选民的系统、基础设施和人员 |
| 720 | to exercise their franchise across the cultural, political, and economic geographies | 在文化、政治和经济地理上行使选举权 |
| 721 | of the world's seventh largest country. | 世界第七大国家。 |
| 722 | While it can be a highly catalytic and emblematic moment in democracy | 虽然它可以成为民主的高度催化和象征的时刻 |
| 723 | and one that is susceptible to manipulation, | 和容易被操纵的, |
| 724 | democracy is not just about voting day and electoral outcomes. | 民主不仅仅是投票日和选举结果。 |
| 725 | It is the institutions and social contracts that make voting and elections possible. | 使投票和选举成为可能的机构和社会契约。 |
| 726 | These include freedom of the press, freedom of speech and expression, | 其中包括新闻自由、言论和表达自由; |
| 727 | the right to assembly, transparency and public accountability, rule of law. | 集会权、透明度和公共问责制、法治。 |
| 728 | These are fundamental to democracy. | 这些是民主的根本。 |
| 729 | And when they're talking about the world's largest democracy, | 当他们谈论 世界上最大的民主, |
| 730 | there's often a sort of lump in the throat, a wobble, | 喉咙里经常有肿块 摇晃 |
| 731 | because they're referring to the fragility of these social and political institutions | 因为他们指的是这些社会和政治机构的脆弱性 |
| 732 | under conditions of authoritarianism. | 在独裁统治的条件下 |
| 733 | Technology has not eroded these. | 技术并没有削弱这些技术。 |
| 734 | People have. | 人们有。 |
| 735 | In 2024, 64 countries went to the polls, | 2024年,64个国家参加了投票, |
| 736 | and there was widespread concern about disinformation campaigns | 人们普遍关注造谣运动 |
| 737 | and the manipulation of voting. | 和操纵投票。 |
| 738 | However, luckily, these fears were unfounded, barring one or two cases. | 然而,幸运的是,这些担心是没有根据的,除了一两个案件外。 |
| 739 | The Heinrich-Ball Foundation in Germany reported that social institutions | 德国海因里希-贝尔基金会报告说,社会机构 |
| 740 | have positively countered algorithmic disinformation | 有正面的反算法假说 |
| 741 | and that the greater threats come from offline socially engineered negative campaigning, | 并且更大的威胁来自线下社会策划的负面宣传, |
| 742 | exacerbating people's existing prejudices and beliefs. | 加深人们现有的偏见和信仰。 |
| 743 | Technology might have amplified the speed and scale of these messages, | 技术可能扩大了这些信息的速度和规模, |
| 744 | but did not eventually prevail because of social mobilization. | 但由于社会动员,最终未能占上风。 |
| 745 | Technology enables social mobilization towards democratic outcomes. | 技术有助于社会动员,实现民主成果。 |
| 746 | In Brazil's recently concluded and very close and fraught presidential election, | 在巴西最近结束的总统选举中, |
| 747 | won by Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva, | 路易斯·伊纳西奥·卢拉·达席尔瓦 |
| 748 | technology companies did manipulate public opinion and social media. | 科技公司的确操纵了舆论和社交媒体。 |
| 749 | But what I want to draw your attention to is how everyday Brazilians rallied | 但我想提醒你注意的是 巴西人每天如何集结 |
| 750 | offline and online using those very platforms to mobilize | 使用这些平台来动员 |
| 751 | to get the vote out for Lula's campaign. | 为卢拉的竞选争取选票 |
| 752 | There was a lot of betting on Polymarket about the outcomes. | 在Polymarket上有很多关于结果的赌注。 |
| 753 | They gave 12 to 26 percent of the market vote went to Lula, | 他们给了12%到26%的市场选票给卢拉, |
| 754 | but he won by 51 percent because you cannot always trust prediction algorithms. | 但他赢了51% 因为你不能总是相信预测算法 |
| 755 | Challenging colonial and authoritarian conditions requires movements | 艰难的殖民和专制条件需要运动 |
| 756 | and people coming together, | 和人们聚集在一起, |
| 757 | and there have always been ways to do this, even with analog technologies. | 并且一直有办法做到这一点, 即使用模拟技术。 |
| 758 | For instance, radio was crucial to shaping Algerian resistance to the French | 例如,广播对形成阿尔及利亚抵抗法国人的力量至关重要。 |
| 759 | and the Russian practice of zamistat, | 和俄罗斯的扎米斯塔习俗, |
| 760 | or handmade copying of print-inspired organizations in the USSR. | 或手工复制苏联受印刷启发的组织。 |
| 761 | I mean, what is the messaging app Signal, | 我的意思是,什么是 消息应用信号, |
| 762 | but a way for secure private communications for journalists and human rights defenders, | 但这是记者和人权维护者获得保密通信的途径, |
| 763 | so secure that even the Department of War needs to use it? | 这么安全,连战争部 都需要使用它? |
| 764 | The former prime minister of Pakistan, Imran Khan, is in prison there. | 巴基斯坦前总理伊姆兰·汗被囚禁在那里. |
| 765 | He worked with his social media team to create an AI-generated image of himself | 他与自己的社交媒体团队合作,创造了AI生成的自己形象. |
| 766 | delivering a message to his millions of supporters. | 向他的数百万支持者传达一个信息。 |
| 767 | Carefully handled, technology can support freedom of speech and expression | 仔细处理,技术可以支持言论和表达自由 |
| 768 | under suppression of democracy. | 压制民主。 |
| 769 | It isn't always just either off or on, but I get it. | 它不是总是 关闭或打开, 但我明白了。 |
| 770 | I understand. | 我理解,我懂你说什么 |
| 771 | We have been lulled into thinking that we're all data points | 我们都觉得我们都是数据点 |
| 772 | completely subject to our phones and algorithmic targeting and n-shitified apps. | 完全服从于我们的手机和算法瞄准 和n隐藏的应用程序。 |
| 773 | They want you to believe this. | 他们想让你相信这一点。 |
| 774 | However, evidence shows that this is not necessarily true. | 然而,有证据表明,这不一定是真的。 |
| 775 | Democracy is flawed and usually frustrating, | 民主是有缺陷的,通常是令人沮丧的, |
| 776 | but it is a collective deliberation about the future we want. | 但是,这是对我们希望的未来的集体审议。 |
| 777 | World's largest democracy also refers to the complexity of what comes the day after the election. | 世界上最大的民主国家也提到选举之后一天的复杂性。 |
| 778 | It is not just about governing a billion and a half people from the top down. | 它不仅仅是从上而下管理十亿半的人。 |
| 779 | It is, in theory, about enabling those billion and a half people to participate in that governance | 从理论上讲,这就是使这十亿半的人能够参与这种治理。 |
| 780 | of the people, by the people, and for the people. | 以人民的名义,以人民的名义,为人民服务。 |
| 781 | No, I'm not saying that. | 不 我不是那个意思 |
| 782 | I'm actually saying that there is a dance between technology and society. | 我其实是说科技与社会之间有一场舞蹈. |
| 783 | I'm trying to say that the social and political institutions that leverage technology | 我想说的是 利用科技的社会和政治机构 |
| 784 | need to be carefully handling it. | 需要小心处理 |
| 785 | So, no, I don't think that this is just that kind of liberal notion. | 所以,不,我不认为这只是那种自由主义的概念。 |
| 786 | But thank you. | 谢谢你 |
| 787 | An excellent example comes from Taiwan and how new philosophies of technology | 台湾是一个很好的例子, |
| 788 | emerged from the 2014 People's Sunflower Movement. | 2014年人民葵花运动中出现. |
| 789 | The Taiwanese open source platform, Polis, totally altered public policy deliberation. | 台湾开放源代码平台Polis彻底改变了公共政策审议. |
| 790 | By mathematically clustering public opinions while intentionally eliminating reply buttons | 通过数学组合公众意见,同时有意取消回复按钮 |
| 791 | and amplifying bridging statements across differences, | 并扩大了跨越分歧的沟通性发言, |
| 792 | the system prevents trolling and structurally rewards consensus. | 该系统防止了破坏和结构奖励共识。 |
| 793 | Taiwan successfully used this model to co-author national legislation | 台湾成功利用这一模式共同起草国家立法 |
| 794 | on the highly divisive issue of the regulation of Uber. | 有关Uber监管的高度分裂性问题 |
| 795 | Again, this only worked because you had a movement that shaped the tool. | 再说一次,这只因为你有一个 塑造工具的运动。 |
| 796 | Our colleague in sociology, Ella MacPherson, has for years been studying | 我们社会学的同事艾拉·麦克弗森 多年来一直在学习 |
| 797 | how everyday people are enrolled in analyzing digital evidence | 每天人们是如何参与分析数字证据的 |
| 798 | to identify human rights abuses similarly. | 以同样方式查明侵犯人权行为。 |
| 799 | The 2016 Brexit vote and the election of Donald Trump won | 2016年布雷克西特投票和唐纳德·特朗普选举获胜. |
| 800 | created this anxiety about the manipulation of voting through large-scale surveillance | 对通过大规模监视操纵投票的担忧 |
| 801 | and targeting, and generated technological solutions like fact-checking | 目标确定和生成技术解决办法,如事实核查 |
| 802 | and a wave of studies about political misinformation and disinformation. | 和一波关于政治错误和错误的研究。 |
| 803 | But it turns out, according to researchers like Alice Marwick, | 但根据爱丽丝·马威克这样的研究者 |
| 804 | while polarization and manipulation does happen, | 当两极分化和操纵发生的时候, |
| 805 | there are only a very small subset of people who are manipulated | 只有很小一部分人被操纵 |
| 806 | rather than this kind of large-scale uniform manipulation of an entire population. | 而不是这种大规模 统一操纵整个人口。 |
| 807 | In other words, the idea of people being controlled and helpless in the face of technology | 换句话说,人们在技术面前被控制和无助的想法 |
| 808 | amplifies digital tools and platforms. | 放大数字工具和平台。 |
| 809 | I need to finish this, thank you. | 我需要完成这个,谢谢。 |
| 810 | And the solutions within those tools, rather than the sociopolitical systems | 以及这些工具中的解决办法,而不是社会政治制度 |
| 811 | that actually sustain and support democracy, | 真正维持和支持民主, |
| 812 | like, for instance, national public service media or Wikipedia | 例如,国家公共服务媒体或维基百科 |
| 813 | or national and open databases, and not criminalizing journalism or dissent, | 或国家数据库和公开数据库,不将新闻或异议定为犯罪, |
| 814 | or indeed not letting tech billionaires buy media companies, | 或者不让技术亿万富翁购买媒体公司, |
| 815 | these are essential to democracy and people's agency. | 它们对于民主和人民机构至关重要。 |
| 816 | Technology is a network of networks, much like the society that enables and sustains it, | 技术是一个网络网络, 很像社会 使它能够和维持, |
| 817 | and therefore I beg to oppose the motion. | 因此,我恳请大家反对这项动议。 |
| 818 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 819 | Thank you very much, Dr. Meyer. | 谢谢你,梅耶博士 |
| 820 | I would now like to open our second round of floor speeches. | 我现在要开始第二轮发言。 |
| 821 | Would anyone like to speak in proposition to the motion? | 有人想就动议发言吗? |
| 822 | Yes, please, name and college. | 是的,请,名字和大学。 |
| 823 | Karen Shepard, Murray Edwards College. | 凯伦·谢帕德,默里·爱德华兹学院. |
| 824 | I wanted to thank the propositions for their speeches so far, | 我想感谢这些提议 到目前为止的发言, |
| 825 | but I think something we've not had yet come up in this debate | 但我想我们还没在这场辩论里想到什么 |
| 826 | is what has technology done to our ability to think over the last few generations | 技术对我们思考过去几代的能力 |
| 827 | and what it's doing to the current generation and the next generation | 以及它对当代和下一代所做的一切 |
| 828 | that are going to be upheld in democracy. | 将在民主中予以维护。 |
| 829 | As a historian, I want to take us back in time. | 作为一个历史学家,我想让我们回到过去。 |
| 830 | If we go back to the mid-18th century when you had the electoral reforms, | 如果我们回到18世纪中叶 你进行了选举改革 |
| 831 | you had parliamentary debates being quoted verbatim, | 你们的议会辩论被逐字引用, |
| 832 | pages and pages and pages in every single main newspaper within the UK. | 英国每家主要报纸的页面和页面。 |
| 833 | Then we go to the turn of the century, in the middle of the century, | 然后我们进入世纪之交, 在世纪中叶, |
| 834 | and you had people willing to be able to stand and listen to huge politicians | 和你有人们愿意 能够站 和倾听巨大的政治家 |
| 835 | and debates for over two hours and be able to engage in this. | 和辩论两个多小时,并能够参与这项工作。 |
| 836 | Now, in the 21st century, the average human has an attention span of eight seconds. | 现在,在21世纪,一般人类的注意力跨度为8秒. |
| 837 | To put that into perspective, a goldfish is nine. | 换句话说,金鱼是九条 |
| 838 | I would say with them rioting and showing engagement in politics, | 我要跟他们说 暴动和表现 参政, |
| 839 | they're still showing an engagement within democracy and showing up their own opinion. | 他们仍然在民主内部 表现出他们自己的看法 |
| 840 | But what we have now is a generation of children that are growing up, | 但是,我们现在有 一代儿童正在成长, |
| 841 | especially with technology, and how is that affecting the fact | 特别是技术, 和如何影响事实 |
| 842 | that they are not able to speak and literate and think about themselves | 他们不能说话,不能识字,不能自觉; |
| 843 | and engage with the democracy in the same way that it used to be? | 并以过去的方式与民主进行接触? |
| 844 | Like our speaker said, the majority of them are now getting their news from social media, | 正如我们的演讲者所说,他们中的大多数人现在都从社交媒体得到消息, |
| 845 | so how are we meant to teach these people how to engage within democracy | 我们该如何教这些人如何参与民主 |
| 846 | and what is this going to be for the future of us? | 这对我们的未来会有什么好处? |
| 847 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 848 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 849 | Would anyone like to speak in opposition to the motion? | 有人反对动议吗? |
| 850 | You're all right. | 你没事 |
| 851 | Name a college, please. | 请说一个大学 |
| 852 | After hearing Dr. Maia's opposition speech, I firmly believe with her. | 在听到马亚博士的反对言论后,我坚信她的观点. |
| 853 | I think the motion that technology is the only threat to democracy | 我认为技术是民主的唯一威胁 |
| 854 | or it has eroded democracy is fundamentally not true. | 或者它侵蚀了民主 根本就不是真的 |
| 855 | Democracy has always been under threat, and it will always be under threat. | 民主一直受到威胁,它将永远受到威胁。 |
| 856 | It is something that we need to intrinsically fight for. | 这是我们需要从本质上争取的东西。 |
| 857 | Hearing the points from the proposition reminded Fukuyama essay, The End of History. | 听命题的要点提醒福山散文"历史的终结". |
| 858 | Fukuyama thought that history has ended. | 福山认为历史已经结束. |
| 859 | The liberal world order will prevail, and we all saw how that turned out. | 自由世界秩序将占上风,我们都看到了结果。 |
| 860 | History will never end. | 历史永远不会结束。 |
| 861 | We have to keep fighting for democracy, and we have to keep fighting for our rights. | 我们必须继续争取民主,我们必须继续争取我们的权利。 |
| 862 | It is indeed true that platforms are no longer simple conduits of information. | 平台确实不再是简单的信息渠道。 |
| 863 | The choices that technology and their makers make in terms of how they are designed | 技术及其制造者在如何设计方面的选择 |
| 864 | shape user behavior and the kind of risk that users get exposed to. | 形状用户行为和用户接触的风险。 |
| 865 | But there have always been tools of the season that have threatened democracy, | 但这个季节的工具 一直威胁着民主 |
| 866 | whether that's corruption, whether that's technology, whether that's bribery, | 是否腐败,是否技术,是否贿赂, |
| 867 | whether that is excluding women from the right to cast their vote. | 这是否剥夺了妇女投票的权利。 |
| 868 | It is not just technology, exhaustively, that has eroded democracy. | 不仅技术彻底地侵蚀了民主。 |
| 869 | There will always be threats to our rights, and we have to keep fighting against them. | 我们的权利将始终受到威胁,我们必须继续与之作斗争。 |
| 870 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 871 | Would anyone like to speak in abstention to the motion? | 有人想对动议投弃权票吗? |
| 872 | Yes, please. | 是的,谢谢。 |
| 873 | Name and college. | 姓名和大学。 |
| 874 | I'm afraid that whilst I enjoy this motion, I have to totally reject it, | 恐怕当我喜欢这个动议时 我必须完全拒绝 |
| 875 | because it's ahistorical. | 因为它是历史的。 |
| 876 | Fundamentally speaking, if you look at history, technology comes and it goes. | 从根本上说,如果你看历史, 技术来来去去。 |
| 877 | It comes and it changes us. | 它会改变我们 |
| 878 | Look at highways, for example, and look at what Robert Moses did with highways | 比如看高速公路 看看罗伯特·摩西对高速公路做了什么 |
| 879 | and transportation technology and the massive changes that came as a result of the car in New York. | 以及纽约汽车带来的巨大变化 |
| 880 | Entire neighborhoods were destroyed. | 整个街区都被摧毁了 |
| 881 | It was terrible and it was awful. | 这是可怕的,这是可怕的。 |
| 882 | This happened in the 1920s and then the 1930s, and it changed how a lot of people lived. | 这发生在1920年代和1930年代,改变了很多人的生活方式. |
| 883 | It changed how they traveled. | 这改变了他们旅行的方式。 |
| 884 | It changed how they existed and how they were entertained. | 这改变了他们的存在和娱乐方式。 |
| 885 | And then come the 1990s, and there's a real revolution in transportation there, | 然后到了1990年代,那里交通发生了真正的革命, |
| 886 | where we realize that the way we've organized ourselves as a society, | 在那里,我们意识到 我们组织自己作为一个社会的方式, |
| 887 | when it comes to cars, when it comes to the use of new tech through transportation, was wrong. | 在汽车方面,在通过运输使用新技术方面,是错误的。 |
| 888 | We should invest more in trains. | 我们应该投入更多的火车。 |
| 889 | We should invest more in underground railways. | 我们应该加大对地下铁路的投资. |
| 890 | Well, the same thing is true with technology and democracy now today and the use of AI and social media. | 技术与民主也是一样, |
| 891 | It's a challenge. | 这是一个挑战。 |
| 892 | It's a terrible challenge. | 这是一个可怕的挑战。 |
| 893 | It challenges us at our very core. | 它对我们的核心提出了挑战。 |
| 894 | And we're going to adapt. | 我们要适应。 |
| 895 | And we're going to move. | 且道将移. |
| 896 | Point of information. | 信息点. |
| 897 | You said that technology was like combos, but with ours, we're kind of moving away from that. | 你说技术就像梳理器 但是有了我们的 我们就要远离了 |
| 898 | We're realizing it's less sustainable. | 我们意识到它不那么可持续。 |
| 899 | We're still a road to al-Khaimah. | 我们还是一条通往al-Khaimah的道路。 |
| 900 | With AI, maybe it will come, maybe it will go. | 有了AI,也许它会来,也许它会去。 |
| 901 | That fellow Medwardian said earlier, it still had such a bad impact. | 那个梅德沃迪安先生刚才说,它仍然产生了如此糟糕的影响。 |
| 902 | Look, I don't disagree with you that there will be bad impacts. | 听着,我不反对你 会有坏影响。 |
| 903 | But I also think that we're not going to return to the 1848 where... | 但我也认为我们不会回到1848年... |
| 904 | One minute remaining. | 还有一分钟 |
| 905 | I'm being told to shut up. | 有人叫我闭嘴 |
| 906 | We're never going to return to the 1848-esque world of politics where it's being done in the upper room of pubs and clubs, | 我们再也不会回到1848年的 政治世界了 在酒吧和俱乐部的上层房间 |
| 907 | and we're all sharing pamphlets with one another. | 我们一起分享小册子 |
| 908 | I'm sorry, when we're simply not going back. | 对不起,当我们只是 不回去。 |
| 909 | The reason why I'm abstaining is because there is a process here. | 我弃权的原因是 这里有个过程 |
| 910 | There's a very neutral process of going and going away. | 进退两难的过程非常中立. |
| 911 | So no, I don't think we're going back. | 所以,我不认为我们回去。 |
| 912 | I wish we could go back. | 我希望我们能回去。 |
| 913 | I wish we could avoid the negative aspects of this. | 我希望我们能够避免这种情况的消极方面。 |
| 914 | But yes, please sign with me in abstention. | 但是,是的,请和我一起签署 弃权。 |
| 915 | Thank you very much to the member for that speech in abstention. | 非常感谢该成员投弃权票的发言。 |
| 916 | Right, order please. | 好的,请点菜 |
| 917 | Order please. | 请点菜 |
| 918 | Let's move on to our third round of paper speakers. | 继续第三轮纸质演说. |
| 919 | Speaking third in proposition is Dr. Tomasz Holoneck, | 第三位是托马斯·霍洛内克博士 |
| 920 | an assistant research professor at Cambridge's Leverholme Centre for the Future of Intelligence, | 剑桥Leverholme情报中心助理研究教授 |
| 921 | working across AI ethics, critical design and human-AI interaction. | 工作跨越AI道德,批判性设计和人与AI互动. |
| 922 | His forthcoming book, Why AI Needs Critical Design, explores how design can broaden participation in AI development | 他即将出版的书"为什么AI需要关键设计"探讨了设计如何可以扩大AI开发的参与. |
| 923 | and make AI more transparent to non-experts. | 并使大赦国际对非专家更加透明。 |
| 924 | His research on AI companions, including grief bots, has been covered by the New York Times, | 他关于AI同伴的研究,包括悲伤的bots, 已经被纽约时报报道, |
| 925 | 卫报与BBC. | |
| 926 | Dr. Tomasz, the ears of the house are yours. | Tomasz医生 房子的耳朵是你的了 |
| 927 | Mr. President, thank you and good evening to you all. | 主席先生,谢谢大家,晚安。 |
| 928 | Over the past couple of years, I have been studying how digital technologies shape people's well-being, | 在过去几年里,我一直在研究 数字技术如何塑造人们的福祉, |
| 929 | including how we experience loneliness and grief. | 包括我们如何经历孤独和悲伤。 |
| 930 | And part of that work took me to people who have lived through war crimes and human rights violations, | 这项工作的一部分 把我带到了那些 经历过战争罪行和侵犯人权行为的人身上 |
| 931 | including refugees now living here in the UK. | 包括目前居住在英国的难民。 |
| 932 | One conversation has stayed with me in particular. | 有一次谈话特别和我在一起 |
| 933 | I spoke with a woman who is both a refugee herself and a mental health practitioner working with survivors of war. | 我和一位既身兼难民又为战争幸存者工作的精神保健工作者的妇女交谈。 |
| 934 | When we discussed the benefits and harms of AI, she told me that the people she works with indeed turn to chat GPT. | 当我们讨论AI的利弊时,她告诉我,她与的人确实转向聊天GPT. |
| 935 | And that's not just because no other help is available. | 这不仅仅是因为没有别的帮助。 |
| 936 | No, it is largely because of trust. | 不,这主要是因为信任。 |
| 937 | When they need support and advice, they trust an American corporation more than the public institutions | 当他们需要支持和咨询时,他们更信任一家美国公司而不是公共机构 |
| 938 | that were built, at least in principle, to care for them. | 至少原则上是为了照顾他们 |
| 939 | Their experience has taught them that such institutions are bound to fail them. | 他们的经验教他们,这种机构必然会辜负他们。 |
| 940 | Meanwhile, the technology seems to show up whenever they need it. | 同时,科技似乎随时随地出现. |
| 941 | Now, the opposition may think that I have just made their case. | 现在,反对派可能认为 我刚刚做了他们的理由。 |
| 942 | The institutions failed first. | 这些机构首先失败了。 |
| 943 | AI didn't break anyone's trust. | AI没有破坏任何人的信任. |
| 944 | Years of political failure did that. | 多年的政治失败就是如此。 |
| 945 | If anything, technology simply revealed the cracks. | 如果有的话,科技只是揭示了裂缝。 |
| 946 | Of course, the cracks are real. | 当然,裂缝是真实的。 |
| 947 | But I want to argue today that technology doesn't just reveal the cracks. | 但我今天想说,科技不只是揭示裂缝。 |
| 948 | No, it does much more than that. | 不,它的作用远不止于此。 |
| 949 | It grows in them. | 它生长在它们中。 |
| 950 | And the more the technology grows, the deeper the cracks become. | 科技越发展,裂缝越深。 |
| 951 | Think of the promises of the past 20 years. | 想想过去20年的诺言 |
| 952 | You don't feel safe on your street? | 你在街上感觉不安全吗? |
| 953 | Here's a durable camera. | 这里有一个耐久的相机。 |
| 954 | You don't trust the news? | 你不相信新闻? |
| 955 | Here's a feed made just for you. | 这是专为你做的饲料 |
| 956 | You've been feeling lonely? | 你一直觉得孤独? |
| 957 | Here's a chatbot that is always there, always ready to listen. | 这里有一个聊天员,总是在那里,总是准备好听。 |
| 958 | Now, each of these promises turns a shared collective problem into a private fix. | 现在,每一个承诺都把一个共同的集体问题变成一个私人问题。 |
| 959 | And every private fix chips away at something. | 每一个私人修理芯片 远离的东西。 |
| 960 | That belief that we solve our problems by governing ourselves together. | 这种信念认为,我们通过共同管理自己来解决我们的问题。 |
| 961 | That belief is what democracy is. | 这种信念就是民主。 |
| 962 | Elections, courts, and parliaments are important, but they are its shell. | 选举、法院和议会是重要的,但它们是其外壳。 |
| 963 | Without the belief, the shell is empty. | 没有信仰,壳是空的. |
| 964 | In a democracy, a failure, a visible crack in the shell, is supposed to set something in motion. | 在民主中,失败,外壳中可见的裂缝,应该会引发某种动静. |
| 965 | When a public service fails us, we complain, we organize, and slowly make it better. | 当公共服务失败时,我们抱怨,我们组织起来,慢慢地改善。 |
| 966 | Now, let me make it clear before there is a point of information. | 现在,让我在有信息之前说明一下。 |
| 967 | I do not believe that it is the job of a refugee to reform the NHS. | 我认为改革国民保健制度不是难民的工作。 |
| 968 | Responsibility for our systems cannot be shared equally because failure and disempowerment are not experienced equally. | 对我们的系统的责任不能平等分担,因为失败和丧失权力是不平等的。 |
| 969 | But for many of us who are in the position to act, technology offers an exit. | 但是,对于许多能够采取行动的我们来说,技术提供了一个出路。 |
| 970 | A grievance that could have become a demand becomes a like, a share, or a subscription instead. | 原本可能成为需求的申诉变成了类似、份额或订阅。 |
| 971 | Quietly, our trust moves from institutions that we can change to corporations we cannot. | 悄悄地,我们的信任从我们能够改变的机构转移到我们不能改变的公司。 |
| 972 | That is how technology deepens the cracks of democracy through the slow erosion of our sense of responsibility for each other. | 这就是技术如何通过缓慢侵蚀我们对彼此的责任感来加深民主的裂痕。 |
| 973 | The woman I spoke to was describing her patients, but more and more research shows that it's not just them. | 我和那个女人在描述她的病人, 但是越来越多的研究表明,不仅仅是他们。 |
| 974 | People are turning to AI for the help we once sought from friends, family, community, and ultimately the state. | 人们纷纷向AI求助, |
| 975 | Here in the UK, researchers at Oxford found that almost a third of regular users turned to AI for emotional support. | 在英国,牛津的研究人员发现,近三分之一的普通用户转向AI寻求情感支持. |
| 976 | And 38% trusted for advice on their relationships. | 38%的人相信他们的关系 |
| 977 | 38% 。 | |
| 978 | Now, compare that figure with another one. | 现在,把这个数字和另一个数字比起来。 |
| 979 | Today, only 12% of British people say that they trust the government to place the need of the nation above the interests of their party. | 今天,只有12%的英国人说,他们信任政府,把民族的需要置于他们党的利益之上. |
| 980 | We don't trust our government, but trust a machine to tell us how to deal with each other. | 我们不信任我们的政府,而是信任一台机器来告诉我们如何对付对方. |
| 981 | Now, this might sound like a private issue, but it's not. | 现在,这听起来可能像 一个私人问题,但它不是。 |
| 982 | Dealing with each other is exactly what democracy asks of us. | 相互打交道正是民主对我们的要求。 |
| 983 | It means listening to people we find difficult, and disagreeing without walking away. | 这意味着倾听我们发现困难的人, 和不同意而不走开。 |
| 984 | Instead of repairing the cracks, the cracked shell of democracy, we choose a cocoon of technology. | 而不是修复裂缝,民主的裂缝, 我们选择一个技术的茧。 |
| 985 | One that seems more comfortable every day, because the cocoon knows exactly how to make us feel better. | 每天看起来更舒服的, 因为茧确切知道如何让我们感觉更好。 |
| 986 | One second, it flatters us, and I mean quite literally. | 一秒钟,它恭维我们, 我的意思是相当字面上。 |
| 987 | Anthropic's own research found that in conversations about relationships, | Anthropic自己的研究发现,在有关关系的对话中, |
| 988 | its AI was sycophantic a quarter of the time, | 它的人工智能在四分之一的时间里是虚幻的, |
| 989 | taking the user's sight against someone it had never heard from. | 将用户的视线 与它从未听说过的人对峙 |
| 990 | Isolated and flattered? | 孤立和恭维? |
| 991 | That is not a recipe for engaged citizens. | 这不是让公民参与的秘方。 |
| 992 | Yes, please. | 是的,谢谢。 |
| 993 | And I would never argue that it doesn't. | 我绝不会说它没有。 |
| 994 | There were some good examples that Maya provided us with | 有一些好的例子 玛雅为我们提供了 |
| 995 | that indeed point that technology can help certain processes in certain groups. | 这确实表明,技术可以帮助某些群体的某些进程。 |
| 996 | But my general point is that it grows in the cracks | 但总而言之,它生长在裂缝里 |
| 997 | and it basically prevents some of us from acting when we should. | 它基本上阻止了我们中的一些人采取行动。 |
| 998 | Anyway, I could keep talking about human rights violations, loneliness and grief | 无论如何,我可以继续谈论 侵犯人权,孤独和悲伤 |
| 999 | because these are my research topics, | 因为这些是我的研究课题, |
| 1000 | but I want to close with something slightly lighter, food. | 但我想用些轻一点的食物来结束 |
| 1001 | In 2019, the Barbican hosted an exhibition on AI | 2019年,巴比坎人主持了AI上的展览 |
| 1002 | with a display showing possible futures of food in the age of climate crisis. | 展示气候危机时代粮食可能的未来。 |
| 1003 | The visitor's favourite was the so-called personal food computer, | 访客最喜欢的是所谓的个人食品电脑, |
| 1004 | an AI-driven food-growing chamber for your own kitchen table. | 一个人工智能驱动的食品生产室 供你们自己的厨房餐桌使用 |
| 1005 | Now let that sink in, my personal device, my food, my table, | 现在让它沉进去,我的个人设备,我的食物,我的桌子, |
| 1006 | as a response to a collective crisis. | 作为对集体危机的反应。 |
| 1007 | Now that is the ultimate cocoon, a technology that perpetuates the illusion | 现在,这是最终的茧, 这种技术使幻觉永久化 |
| 1008 | that you can become independent of everyone else. | 你可以独立于其他人。 |
| 1009 | A cocoon keeps us comfortable, a bunker keeps others out. | 茧能让我们舒适 地堡能让别人远离 |
| 1010 | For a cocoon to become a bunker, all it takes is believing that the world outside has failed us. | 为了让茧成为地堡 它只需要相信外面的世界 辜负了我们 |
| 1011 | Now the personal food computer is only a prototype, thankfully, | 现在个人的食品电脑 只是一个原型, 感谢, |
| 1012 | but its logic is already manifesting in your home and in your pocket. | 但它的逻辑已经在你的家和你的口袋里显现出来。 |
| 1013 | It's your smart doorbell, your hyper-personalised feed and your sycophantic chatbot. | 这是你的智能门铃 你的超个性化的饲料 还有你的爱奇艺聊天员 |
| 1014 | Now that is my case. | 现在,这是我的情况。 |
| 1015 | Technology has eroded democracy because it grows in the cracks of our institutions | 技术侵蚀了民主 因为它生长在我们体制的裂缝里 |
| 1016 | and our communities and keeps making them deeper. | 和我们的社区,并不断使他们更深入。 |
| 1017 | I'm concluding. | 我结束了。 |
| 1018 | It has taken our trust and handed it to companies no voter can reach. | 它夺走了我们的信任,把它交给了选民无法接触到的公司。 |
| 1019 | It has taken our grievances, the raw material of democratic reform, | 我们的不满 民主改革的原料 |
| 1020 | and turned them into fuel for private consumption of online content. | 然后把它们变成私人消费网上内容的燃料。 |
| 1021 | And it is replacing the daily difficult practice of living with other people | 它取代了每天与其他人生活在一起的艰难做法 |
| 1022 | with a feed and a chatbot that agree with us. | 还有一个和我们一致的聊天机 |
| 1023 | Our democracy erodes through a thousand private fixes, | 我们的民主通过一千个私人的修补被侵蚀, |
| 1024 | and we don't feel the need to mend the cracks in the shell of democracy | 而我们并不觉得需要 弥补民主的裂缝 |
| 1025 | when we can choose the cocoon of technology instead. | 当我们可以选择技术的茧。 |
| 1026 | But as the cocoon turns into a bunker, we must realise | 但当茧变成掩体时 我们必须意识到 |
| 1027 | we won't sustain, let alone reform, democracy from inside a bunker. | 我们不会维持民主 更不要说改革民主了 |
| 1028 | And that is why I back to propose. | 这就是为什么我回来求婚。 |
| 1029 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1030 | Thank you very much, Dr Tomas. | 非常感谢,托马斯博士。 |
| 1031 | We now move across the floor to our third speaker in opposition, Joel Smith, | 我们现在跨过会场,请第三位反对者乔尔·史密斯发言。 |
| 1032 | a first-year HSPS student at Jesus College. | 耶稣学院一年级HSPS学生. |
| 1033 | He is on the events subcommittee of the Cambridge Union, | 他是剑桥联盟的活动小组委员会的成员 |
| 1034 | and he has won the right to speak by open audition. | 他通过公开试镜获得了发言权 |
| 1035 | Joel, you have the ears of the House. | 乔尔,你有 众议院的耳朵。 |
| 1036 | Evening all. | 晚间所有。 |
| 1037 | It's great to be speaking here today. | 今天在这里发言真好 |
| 1038 | I thank the Union for inviting me in. | 我感谢联盟邀请我。 |
| 1039 | It's been wonderful hearing from the proposition tonight | 很高兴听到今晚的提议 |
| 1040 | because they have been so unbearably close to being right about basically everything. | 因为他们一直如此难以忍受的接近 对基本上的一切是正确的。 |
| 1041 | There's a couple of points I'd like to address while I'm here, | 我想在这里谈几点 |
| 1042 | particularly from the second proposition speaker. | 特别是第二位提议发言人。 |
| 1043 | You mentioned internet shutdowns. | 你提到互联网关闭。 |
| 1044 | Funnily enough, that was literally going to be my first point. | 有意思的是,这其实就是我的第一点。 |
| 1045 | I was even going to do the click thing. | 我甚至打算做点心 |
| 1046 | It was going to be really cool before you did the bit. | 在你这么做之前会很酷的 |
| 1047 | To that I respond quite simply. | 我的反应很简单。 |
| 1048 | If someone takes away my gun, does that make the gun weak? | 如果有人拿走了我的枪,那枪会变弱吗? |
| 1049 | I think not. | 我想没有。 |
| 1050 | Secondly, there was a point the first proposition speaker brushed over really quickly | 第二,第一位提议演讲者说得有一点很迅速 |
| 1051 | because he was running out of time that I'd like to get into more. | 因为他没有时间了,我想多加投入 |
| 1052 | You quite wisely addressed the idea that technology has allowed us to be heard better, | 你非常明智地谈到这个想法,即 技术让我们能更好地听到, |
| 1053 | and you shut it down on the basis that algorithms are controllable | 你关闭它基于 算法是可控制的 |
| 1054 | and manipulable by the people who run them. | 由管理他们的民众操纵。 |
| 1055 | Undeniably, tech oligarchs do have a big influence over their algorithms. | 不可否认的是,技术寡头对其算法确实有很大的影响. |
| 1056 | The amount of far-right propaganda I've seen on Twitter tells me that's enough. | 我在推特上看到的极右宣传量告诉我够了. |
| 1057 | However, I think what we can all notice... | 然而,我想我们都知道... |
| 1058 | Yes? | 是吗? |
| 1059 | The X algorithm is open source. | X算法是开源的. |
| 1060 | Is it? | 是吗? |
| 1061 | Yes. | 对 |
| 1062 | I can't allow it. | 我不能允许 |
| 1063 | I was using Twitter as a vague example. | 我用Twitter作为模糊的例子。 |
| 1064 | I'm sure some of them are private at the end. | 我敢肯定,有些是 私人在最后。 |
| 1065 | And if you're saying you don't understand how it works, then why didn't you use... | 如果你说你不明白它是如何运作的 那你为什么不用... |
| 1066 | I didn't use an AI chatbot for what it's worth. | 我并没有用AI聊天机来做它的价值。 |
| 1067 | This was all like bad memory or AI-free speech. | 这就像糟糕的记忆 或自由AI的演讲。 |
| 1068 | Don't you worry. | 别担心 |
| 1069 | But what I would counterpoint that with is, | 但我想反驳的是, |
| 1070 | how many people here saw footage from Palestine in the last three years on their feeds, | 这里有多少人在过去三年里 从巴勒斯坦看到录像 |
| 1071 | on a non-open source feed? | 在非开源的种子上? |
| 1072 | I think we can say we all did, right? | 我想我们可以说 我们都做了,对不对? |
| 1073 | And how many of us think the people who own those feeds wanted us to see that footage? | 有多少人认为拥有这些饲料的人 想要我们看到那段录像? |
| 1074 | I think not. | 我想没有。 |
| 1075 | With each new technological development, the ability to censor gets worse. | 随着每个新的技术发展,审查能力会越来越差。 |
| 1076 | It's like increasingly lubricating the information. | 这就像越来越润滑的信息。 |
| 1077 | Back in the Middle Ages, only scribes controlled what could be read, | 早在中世纪,只有文士控制着可以读到的东西, |
| 1078 | and as such, it was incredibly easy to fire your scribe. | 因此,解雇你的文士是非常容易的。 |
| 1079 | Then the Gutenberg Press came along. | 后来古腾堡出版社也随之而来. |
| 1080 | With it came the novel and printed text and the earliest forms of democracy. | 有了这部小说和印刷文本以及最早的民主形式。 |
| 1081 | Then came radio and telecommunications. | 然后是无线电和电信 |
| 1082 | More ways to speak, more ways to be heard, but still privately owned. | 更多的说话方式,更多的表达方式,但仍是私有的. |
| 1083 | Finally, we get the internet and our own ability to capture footage and video. | 最后,我们得到了互联网 和我们自己的能力 捕捉镜头和视频。 |
| 1084 | Whilst it can be attempted to be censored, | 虽然可以尝试被审查, |
| 1085 | it is censored at the output level rather than the input level. | 它在产出层面而不是投入层面受到审查。 |
| 1086 | A traditional media oligarch is given options as to what to publish | 传统媒体寡头可以选择出版什么 |
| 1087 | and then chooses to publish it. | 然后选择出版。 |
| 1088 | A tech oligarch has it published first and then has to retroactively take it down. | 一个技术寡头先发布,然后必须追溯下来。 |
| 1089 | That is vastly harder. | 这困难很大。 |
| 1090 | And as such, we get far, far more information off the internet than we would have elsewhere. | 因此,我们从互联网上获得的信息远比其他地方要多。 |
| 1091 | Now, the proposition has rightly recognised that that also includes a greater ability to lie. | 现在,该提议正确地认识到,这也包括更大的说谎能力。 |
| 1092 | This is true. | 这是真的。 |
| 1093 | However, I would vastly rather that deception be a democracy than a monopoly. | 然而,我宁愿欺骗是一种民主,而不是垄断。 |
| 1094 | By that what I mean is, conventional media does, I feel like it has been ignored, | 我的意思是,传统媒体做的, 我觉得它被忽略了, |
| 1095 | still lies sometimes, and when it does, it can be detrimental. | 有时仍会撒谎,一旦撒谎,就可能有害无益。 |
| 1096 | Look at the Hillsborough disaster. | 看看希尔斯伯勒的灾难 |
| 1097 | The Sun, the most-read newspaper in the country, blamed the victims for the disaster. | [永久失效連結] 国内阅读量最高的报纸"太阳报"责备灾民. |
| 1098 | And that was the national narrative for decades because they had no way to counter it. | 这是几十年来的民族叙事 因为他们无法反驳 |
| 1099 | Sorry, I'm being too loud. | 对不起,我太大声了 |
| 1100 | Had that happened today, we would unfortunately have quite grim, | 如果今天发生这种事,我们很不幸会很惨 |
| 1101 | but very important footage accessible like that. | 但非常重要的镜头可以这样查看 |
| 1102 | Got to do the click thing in the end. | 最后得做点心的事 |
| 1103 | And that is essentially what we're seeing in Palestine. | 这就是我们在巴勒斯坦看到的。 |
| 1104 | It is a vastly, vastly worse, vastly, vastly more tragic example, | 这是一个巨大、巨大、更糟糕、更悲惨的例子, |
| 1105 | but it is a case where people are able to overpower media gatekeepers | 但它是一个案例,人们能够 压倒媒体守门员 |
| 1106 | using their ability to take footage themselves and put it into the world. | 利用他们的能力 自己拍摄录像 并将其投入世界 |
| 1107 | I think that is democracy in the most literal meaning of the term, | 我认为,这是民主 在这个词的最字面意义, |
| 1108 | demos plus kratos, ancient Greek, people and power. | 演示品加kratos,古希腊语,人和权力. |
| 1109 | We talk a lot about democratic norms. | 我们经常谈论民主准则。 |
| 1110 | The problem with democratic norms is they often aren't very democratic. | 民主规范的问题在于它们往往不十分民主. |
| 1111 | If you model democratic norms on somewhere like the United States, for instance, | 如果你在像美国这样的地方树立民主规范 |
| 1112 | that's like saying that I'm the union president. | 就像说我是工会主席 |
| 1113 | I'm standing near the guy. | 我站在那个家伙旁边 |
| 1114 | We look a bit similar. | 我们看起来有点相似。 |
| 1115 | We're not the same bloke. | 我们不是同一个家伙。 |
| 1116 | The fact of the matter is I don't think we should be modeling our understanding of democracy | 事实是 我觉得我们不应该模仿 对民主的理解 |
| 1117 | on the country in the world with arguably the largest state-owned slave population. | 在世界上拥有最多国有奴隶的人口的国家 |
| 1118 | I think we can do a bit better than that. | 我认为我们可以做得更好一点。 |
| 1119 | And I think measuring the power of the people to hear, to speak, and to be heard | 我想测量人民的声音 说话和被倾听的力量 |
| 1120 | is infinitely better to comparing it to a nation founded by slave owners | 把它比作一个奴隶主建立的国家 绝对更好 |
| 1121 | and which still owns slaves itself. | 仍然拥有奴隶 |
| 1122 | One common criticism of technology is that it has increased polarisation. | 对技术的一个常见批评是它增加了两极化. |
| 1123 | To that I ask, what does the word polarisation actually mean? | 我问,两极化这个词到底是什么意思? |
| 1124 | It means increasing in distance, but from what? | 意思是增加距离,但从什么? |
| 1125 | Some ideal centre point? | 一个理想的中心点? |
| 1126 | Some consensus we're all meant to have? | 我们都会有共识吗? |
| 1127 | To that I say, I think it's good that we lose some amount of consensus | 我说,我觉得我们失去一些共识是件好事 |
| 1128 | because it allows us to challenge it. | 因为它允许我们挑战它。 |
| 1129 | Yes? | 是吗? |
| 1130 | Polarisation is surely moving away from us at that point. | 那时极化肯定正在远离我们。 |
| 1131 | Yes, but presumably those points of views were originally close together. | 是的,但大概这些观点原本是接近的。 |
| 1132 | That's my idea. | 这是我的主意。 |
| 1133 | You'd think when people complain about polarisation, | 你会觉得当人们抱怨极化时 |
| 1134 | the point they're getting at is that fundamentally we used to have more in common. | 他们得到的要点是,从根本上说,我们过去有更多的共同点。 |
| 1135 | We used to be able to get along better because we agreed on more fundamentals. | 我们过去能够相处得更好,因为我们商定了更多的基本要素。 |
| 1136 | I would argue that being able to challenge those fundamentals | 我主张,能够挑战这些基本因素 |
| 1137 | opens us up for a lot of positive development. | 为我们带来了许多积极发展。 |
| 1138 | I just did one, man. | 我只是做了一个,男人。 |
| 1139 | Yes, there are some fundamentals that we all want. | 是的,我们所有人都想要一些基本要素。 |
| 1140 | We all want to agree that bigotry is bad, | 我们都想同意 偏执是坏的, |
| 1141 | but the good thing about those ones is they're really easy to defend. | 但他们的优点是 他们真的很容易防守。 |
| 1142 | If someone challenges them, if we are willing to take it seriously, | 如果有人挑战他们 如果我们愿意认真对待 |
| 1143 | we can beat them quite easily. | 我们很容易打败他们 |
| 1144 | But there are other fundamentals which until recently | 但还有其他基本因素,直到最近 |
| 1145 | were pretty universally agreed on that are really bad. | 相当普遍同意 这真的很糟糕。 |
| 1146 | For instance, every American war until Iran last year, this year rather, | 比如说,直到去年,直到伊朗的每一场美国战争, 今年, |
| 1147 | was popular at its inception, and that is because the media wanted it to be | 一开始很受欢迎 这是因为媒体希望 |
| 1148 | and so people did not receive the full breadth of information | 所以人们没有得到 充分的信息, |
| 1149 | and perspectives on the issue. | 以及对这一问题的看法。 |
| 1150 | Now that we are able to hear from Iranians and from victims of other wars directly, | 现在我们可以直接听到伊朗人和其他战争受害者的声音, |
| 1151 | we've had our first American war that is unpopular at inception. | 我们第一次的美国战争 一开始就不受欢迎 |
| 1152 | That is pretty massive. | 这是相当巨大的。 |
| 1153 | It has not yet been enough to stop the war. | 尚不足以阻止战争。 |
| 1154 | With the recent midterm results, maybe we can hope | 有了最近的中期结果,也许我们可以希望 |
| 1155 | that I don't have much faith in the Democrats. | 我对民主党没什么信心 |
| 1156 | I must be honest. | 我必须说实话。 |
| 1157 | So to those who challenge technology, | 所以对那些挑战技术的人来说 |
| 1158 | I will ask them to look not at the future, not at the present, | 我将要求他们不要看未来,不要看现在, |
| 1159 | but at what has happened, as the motion suggests. | 但正如动议所暗示的, |
| 1160 | We have seen ourselves enabled to speak and to be heard on a level unlike before. | 我们已经看到自己能够发言和听到的声音,其程度与以往不同。 |
| 1161 | And I ask you, do you want to reject that just because some people can use it to lie? | 我问你,你想拒绝吗? 就因为有些人可以用它来撒谎? |
| 1162 | Do you deny your own dignity in that way? | 你这样否定自己的尊严吗? |
| 1163 | We have the power to speak more now, | 我们现在有话要说 |
| 1164 | and technology does not deny us our civic duty, it gives us a new one. | 技术并不否定我们的公民义务, 它给了我们一个新的责任。 |
| 1165 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1166 | Thank you very much, Joel. | 谢谢你,乔尔。 |
| 1167 | Okay, I'm going to open up one more round of floor speeches. | 好吧,我要再打开一圈楼层演讲。 |
| 1168 | Would anyone like to speak in proposition briefly? | 有人想简略地谈谈提议吗? |
| 1169 | Yeah, all right. | 是的,没事。 |
| 1170 | Name and college, please. | 姓名和大学,请。 |
| 1171 | Existential risk, no for technology. | 存在风险,不用于技术。 |
| 1172 | Certain technologies, some people have more choices to make. | 某些技术,有些人有更多的选择。 |
| 1173 | The question is, across history, has technology, | 问题是,在整个历史中,有技术, |
| 1174 | why is it being told that, indeed, the very first politics invasion | 为什么有人会说 第一次政治入侵 |
| 1175 | brought to the world in the first place? | 先带给世界? |
| 1176 | We don't have the very first king to rise from the throne, | 我们没有第一个从王位上站起来的国王 |
| 1177 | but our technologies are the most confident ones. | 但我们的技术是最自信的 |
| 1178 | Take nuclear weapons. | 拿核武器来 |
| 1179 | At the end of the world, one man, Donald Trump, | 世界末日,一个人,唐纳德·特朗普, |
| 1180 | the U.S. is a firm and unique man. | 美国是一个坚定而独特的人。 |
| 1181 | Likewise, mass surveillance. | 同样,大规模监视。 |
| 1182 | I agree. | и種 |
| 1183 | Thank you very much, Luke. | 非常感谢,卢克。 |
| 1184 | Would anyone like to speak in opposition to the motion? | 有人反对动议吗? |
| 1185 | Yes, please. | 是的,谢谢。 |
| 1186 | Name and college. | 姓名和大学。 |
| 1187 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 1188 | Right, would anyone like to speak in abstention | 对,有人想弃权发言吗? |
| 1189 | to close off the floor speeches? | 关闭发言? |
| 1190 | I want to say right in the corner over there, | 我想说就在那边的角落里 |
| 1191 | name and college, please. | 姓名和大学,请。 |
| 1192 | I'm Cindy from Sydney Sussex College. | 我是悉尼·萨塞克斯学院的辛迪 |
| 1193 | I would like to speak for abstention today | 我今天要作弃权发言。 |
| 1194 | because I think both the proposition and the opposition | 因为我认为提议和反对派 |
| 1195 | have made some correct arguments, | 已经做了一些正确的论点, |
| 1196 | but also tiny bits of mistakes. | 但也有一些小错误 |
| 1197 | So first of all, I would like to ask everyone to consider | 所以首先 我想请大家考虑一下 |
| 1198 | who are the people that we are talking about | 我们谈论的那些人 |
| 1199 | in this debate about democracy. | 在这场关于民主的辩论中。 |
| 1200 | So the proposition would talk about some people who have been, | 因此,这个提议会谈论一些 曾经, |
| 1201 | for example, harmed by certain algorithms | 例如,受到某些算法的损害 |
| 1202 | and certain technology decisions, | 和某些技术决定, |
| 1203 | while also proposing that everybody have equally | 同时也建议每个人都有平等的权利 |
| 1204 | the possibility of being harmed by such technological problems, | 可能因这种技术问题而受到伤害, |
| 1205 | while the opposition would say, | 而反对派会说, |
| 1206 | okay, some people have got the possibility to speak up | 好吧,有些人有 说话的可能性 |
| 1207 | and that all of us are now empowered with such a possibility. | 并且我们现在都获得了这种可能性。 |
| 1208 | Now, I think both of these arguments are quite superficial | 现在,我认为这两个论点都相当肤浅 |
| 1209 | when considering the human beings as a whole. | 在考虑整个人类时 |
| 1210 | And so my argument is that if we think from the proposition side, | 所以我的论点是 如果我们从提议的角度思考 |
| 1211 | of course, we get direct consequences of technology, | 当然,我们得到的直接后果 技术, |
| 1212 | including surveillance, misinformation, | 包括监视、错误信息、 |
| 1213 | those arguments that you can say. | 那些你可以说的论点。 |
| 1214 | On the other side, we can say that people build the technology, yes. | 另一方面,我们可以说,人们建设技术,是的。 |
| 1215 | People are also behind the technology, yes. | 科技的幕后黑手,是的。 |
| 1216 | There are systematic and institutional reasons | 有系统和体制原因 |
| 1217 | behind democratic backsliding, yes. | 在民主的背后,是的。 |
| 1218 | But then my argument would be twofold. | 但是,那么我的论点将是双重的。 |
| 1219 | And so I think technology has not eroded democracy, | 所以我认为技术并没有侵蚀民主 |
| 1220 | because where it erodes things, | 因为它侵蚀事物, |
| 1221 | I think it has eroded humanity and creativity and trust as a whole, | 我认为它侵蚀了整个人类 以及创造力和信任 |
| 1222 | like the foundations of human society. | 就像人类社会的基础 |
| 1223 | Whereas when the technology, I think technology has not, | 而当技术,我认为技术没有, |
| 1224 | well, simply empowered democracy. | 好吧,只是赋予民主权力。 |
| 1225 | So in the aspects that it has empowered us, | 因此,在它赋予我们权力的方面, |
| 1226 | it has empowered more areas other than democracy, | 它赋予了民主以外的更多的权力, |
| 1227 | like economic developments, the ways we receive information, | 就像经济发展, 我们获得信息的方式, |
| 1228 | the ways we can inquire more ways of learning, et cetera. | 我们可以问更多的学习方式,等等。 |
| 1229 | And so it's also in multiple aspects of life. | 因此它也存在于生命的多个方面. |
| 1230 | But my point, coming back to how we humans can approach AI, | 但我的观点,回到我们人类如何接近AI, |
| 1231 | I think we should know that there are both people who can benefit from AI | 我认为我们应该知道,有两个人 谁可以从AI受益 |
| 1232 | and people who are being harmed by AI. | 以及受到大赦国际伤害的人。 |
| 1233 | So there are people who can be passive, | 所以有人可以被动, |
| 1234 | whereas there are also people who can actively harness that. | 但也有人可以积极利用它。 |
| 1235 | And I think this dichotomy, | 我认为这种二分法, |
| 1236 | this seemingly contradictory thing is the approach that we have to take | 这似乎自相矛盾的是 我们必须采取的方法 |
| 1237 | and that's something that we have to accept. | 这是我们必须接受的 |
| 1238 | And so going back to, I think, the first speaker of the proposition | 所以回到,我想,第一位演讲者 |
| 1239 | who talked about talking about a kind of technological determinism, | 他们谈论一种技术决定论, |
| 1240 | I partly disagree with it because I think even if humans invented the technology, | 我部分不同意 因为即使人类发明了这种技术 |
| 1241 | we are not in full control of it. | 我们没有完全控制它。 |
| 1242 | This is why I choose to abstain. | 这就是为什么我选择弃权。 |
| 1243 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1244 | And thank you very much. | 非常感谢 |
| 1245 | We now move on to our last round of paper speakers. | 我们现在开始最后一轮的纸质演讲。 |
| 1246 | Speaking fourth in proposition is James He, | 提议第四位是詹姆斯·贺 |
| 1247 | co-founder and CEO of Artificial Societies, | 人工社会共同创始人兼首席执行官, |
| 1248 | a London company building foundational models of human societies. | a 伦敦公司建立人类社会的基础模式。 |
| 1249 | At Cambridge, he used data science and agent-based simulation to study human behaviour, | 在剑桥,他利用数据科学和基于代理的模拟研究人类行为, |
| 1250 | including social media's effect on public opinion, | 包括社会媒体对公众舆论的影响, |
| 1251 | and in 2023, led the first peer-reviewed paper on large agent swarms, | 2023年,领导了第一篇关于大型毒剂群的同行评审论文, |
| 1252 | simulating a society of 33,000 agents. | 模拟33000名特工组成的社会. |
| 1253 | His current work explores what protects societies against information attacks. | 他目前的工作探讨什么是保护社会免受信息攻击. |
| 1254 | James, you have the ears of the house. | 詹姆斯,你有房子的耳朵。 |
| 1255 | Thank you, Mr. | 谢谢,先生。 |
| 1256 | He, for inviting me to this chamber. | 他邀请我来到这个会议厅 |
| 1257 | I was very surprised when I was invited to speak in proposition of technology has eroded democracy | 我被邀请来演讲时很惊讶 技术提案侵蚀了民主 |
| 1258 | because I am a Chinese man who is founding a Silicon Valley tech startup | 因为我是中国人 正在创办硅谷科技公司 |
| 1259 | that's using technology to simulate human societies. | 用技术模拟人类社会 |
| 1260 | So perhaps my mere presence is an argument in proposition to the fact that technology has, | 所以,也许我的存在仅仅是一个论点 提出这样一个事实: 技术, |
| 1261 | or perhaps is eroding, human democracy. | 也许正在侵蚀人类的民主 |
| 1262 | And perhaps I know it too well from spending time at Y Combinator at Silicon Valley | 或许我对在硅谷的Y联合体呆过太了解了 |
| 1263 | talking to my fellow founders who's raised tens, if not hundreds, of millions of dollars | 跟我的创始人们谈话 他们已经筹集了几千,甚至几百万美元 |
| 1264 | trying to figure out how do we build a better world with technology. | 我们如何用技术建立一个更美好的世界。 |
| 1265 | They would argue that, look, democracy is about having humans with independent thoughts | 他们会认为,看,民主是 关于人类与独立思想 |
| 1266 | coming together to have discourse like this and about the distribution of power. | 走到一起来进行这样的讨论 关于权力的分配。 |
| 1267 | And technology can enable all of those. | 而技术可以使所有这些。 |
| 1268 | They will argue that. | 他们会辩驳的 |
| 1269 | And so we've heard from proposition tonight as well. | 我们今晚也听到了提案 |
| 1270 | Sorry, opposition tonight as well. | 对不起,今晚也反对 |
| 1271 | But I will argue that technology in trying to enable each individual to have independent thoughts, | 但我会说,技术 试图使每个人 有独立的想法, |
| 1272 | in trying to connect people together, and in trying to distribute power | 试图将人联系起来 试图分配权力 |
| 1273 | has in fact done the opposite. | 事实并非如此。 |
| 1274 | And remember, the motion is that it has eroded. | 记住,运动是 它已经侵蚀。 |
| 1275 | Not that it will forever be. | 不是说它会永远是。 |
| 1276 | It's just that it has, remember, grammar. | 只是它有,记住,语法。 |
| 1277 | So we will hear arguments, or we have heard arguments, | 所以我们要听取争论,或听到争论, |
| 1278 | that technology has enabled people to have more independent thoughts, | 技术使人们有了更独立的想法, |
| 1279 | to have more access to information. | 以获得更多的信息。 |
| 1280 | But what's actually happening as people are given all the information in the world, | 但当人们得到世界上所有的信息时 究竟发生了什么 |
| 1281 | as people have social media to see everything? | 因为人们有社交媒体来观察一切? |
| 1282 | What's happened is that we have become not enabled, but influenced. | 发生的事情是,我们没有被启用,而是受到了影响。 |
| 1283 | Technology has empowered some individuals to influence us. | 技术使一些人有能力影响我们。 |
| 1284 | That influence, that empowerment is taking away our ability to think of ourselves. | 这种影响,赋予权力正在夺走我们思考自己的能力。 |
| 1285 | Our generation is becoming more and more reliant on other people's thoughts instead of our own. | 我们这一代人越来越依赖别人的思想,而不是我们自己的思想。 |
| 1286 | When technology argues that we can enable people to connect with each other, | 当科技认为我们能使人们互相连接时, |
| 1287 | with social media, with everything else, with all of these ability to communicate with each other | 与社交媒体,其他一切, 和所有这些能力 互相沟通 |
| 1288 | and form discourse, what's actually happening is that people are losing our own identity | 并形成对话, 实际发生的事情是, 人们正在失去我们自己的身份 |
| 1289 | and we are becoming isolated. | 我们变得孤立 |
| 1290 | Let me give you a real example of what some of my fellow founders in Silicon Valley want to build as a world. | 让我举一个真正的例子,说明我在硅谷的一些创始人想要建立一个世界。 |
| 1291 | They want you to wake up in your hyper-futuristic pod house, | 他们希望你醒过来 在你超富丽堂皇的房子, |
| 1292 | and they want your personalized meal to appear in front of you. | 他们希望你个性化的晚餐出现在你面前 |
| 1293 | They want personalized content. | 他们想要个性化的内容。 |
| 1294 | They want a personal friend that is ready to listen, ready to talk, sometimes ready to fuck. | 他们想要一个私人朋友 准备好倾听 准备好说话 有时准备做爱 |
| 1295 | And all of that creating a perfectly isolated individual. | 这一切造就了一个完全孤立的个人。 |
| 1296 | Democracy is about the discourse between people. | 民主是人与人之间的讨论。 |
| 1297 | Can we still have that when every individual is no longer able to have that discourse with each other | 当每个人不再能够彼此对话时,我们还能有吗? |
| 1298 | because we are so safe and so comfortable in our own individual selves? | 因为我们自己如此安全舒适? |
| 1299 | When it comes to all of these two forces in terms of looking at, | 说到这两股力量的目光 |
| 1300 | hey, technology can enable more individual capability, but actually that's just influencing us. | 嘿,技术可以让更多的个人能力, 但实际上这只是影响我们。 |
| 1301 | Technology can connect people, but actually that is just isolating us. | 技术可以把人连接起来, 但实际上,那只是隔离我们。 |
| 1302 | What is happening here? | 这是怎么回事? |
| 1303 | What's happening is that suddenly our own ability to take power has been taken away from us. | 突然间我们夺权的能力被夺走了 |
| 1304 | It's been sucked into a vacuum, and all of that power becomes concentrated. | 它被吸进了真空, 并且所有的能量都集中起来。 |
| 1305 | 看看Anthropic和他们的2兆IPO. | |
| 1306 | Look at them capturing all of United States white-collar work. | 看看他们把全美国白领作品都拍下来了 |
| 1307 | Look at Elon being able to turn everything from atom to intelligence, from orbit to dust. | 看看伊隆能够把一切从原子变成智能,从轨道变成尘埃. |
| 1308 | All of that power concentrated in one man. | 所有的权力都集中在一个人身上 |
| 1309 | That is what technology has been doing to our society. | 这就是技术对我们社会所做的。 |
| 1310 | Now, of course, opposition, very confusing, has not enabled, whatever. | 现在,当然,反对,非常令人困惑, 还没有实现,什么的。 |
| 1311 | Technology doesn't have the will to do all of this. | 科技没有做这一切的意志. |
| 1312 | It's the humans that are doing all of this to each other. | 是诸众生以一切众生故. |
| 1313 | But no, technology does have a will. | 但是,不,技术确实有意愿。 |
| 1314 | I'm building a tech company. | 我在建立一家技术公司 |
| 1315 | My will is to enable democracies to defend themselves against autocracies, | 我的意愿是使民主得以抵御专制统治 |
| 1316 | enable us to understand society better. | 使我们能够更好地理解社会。 |
| 1317 | And yet every day I fight the forces of capitalism, of other technologies | 然而,我每天都在与资本主义和其他技术的力量作斗争 |
| 1318 | that is eroding every individual's ability to have independent thoughts, | 正在削弱每个人独立思考的能力, |
| 1319 | to have free discourse, and to have a distribution of power. | 拥有自由的言论, 和权力的分配。 |
| 1320 | So yes, absolutely, technology has the potential to save democracy. | 所以,是的,绝对的,技术有拯救民主的潜力。 |
| 1321 | That's what I'm trying to work towards for my entire life. | 我一辈子都在为这个努力 |
| 1322 | But it has eroded our democracy. | 但它侵蚀了我们的民主。 |
| 1323 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1324 | Thank you very much, James. | 非常感谢,詹姆斯 |
| 1325 | Right, finishing us off tonight, fourth in opposition is Dr. Johnny Penn, | 对,今晚结束比赛,第四名是强尼·宾博士 |
| 1326 | co-director and associate teaching professor of AI ethics and society | AI伦理和社会共同主任和副教授 |
| 1327 | at the University of Cambridge and a senior research fellow | 剑桥大学一名高级研究员 |
| 1328 | at the Leverholm Center for the Future of Intelligence. | 在利弗霍尔姆情报中心 |
| 1329 | An historian of technology and number one New York Times bestselling author, | 技术史学家 纽约时报畅销书第一 |
| 1330 | he is also a faculty affiliate at Harvard's Berkman Klein Center | 他也是哈佛伯克曼克莱因中心的教职员 |
| 1331 | and a former MIT media lab assembly fellow and Google technology policy fellow. | 以及麻省理工学院前媒体组装研究员和谷歌技术政策研究员。 |
| 1332 | Johnny, you have the ears of the house. | 强尼,你有房子的耳朵。 |
| 1333 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1334 | I want to start by thanking Mark Zuckerberg for opening my digital containment cell | 首先我要感谢马克・扎克伯格 打开我的数字封存室 |
| 1335 | long enough for me to be here with you tonight. | 足够我今晚和你在一起 |
| 1336 | The taste of democratic debate in person like this is as sweet | 像这样的民主辩论的口味也不错 |
| 1337 | as a kind of collector's edition of prime energy drink. | 作为一种收藏家版的质能饮料. |
| 1338 | It's really reaching my soul. | 它真的到达我的灵魂。 |
| 1339 | And, you know, I never thought I'd be here arguing about | 而且,你知道, 我从没想过我会在这里争论 |
| 1340 | or rather debating technology's purported murder of democracy | 或者说辩论科技对民主的谋杀 |
| 1341 | with three speakers who work in AI. | 在大赦国际工作的三名发言者。 |
| 1342 | Is that right? | 是吗? |
| 1343 | Yeah, they do. | 没错 |
| 1344 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 1345 | It's a confusing honor. | 这是令人困惑的荣誉。 |
| 1346 | Okay. | 摆 |
| 1347 | It's easy to joke about all this because I, too, as many of you, | 开个玩笑很容易 因为我跟你们一样 |
| 1348 | at least everyone who's still here, feel scared. | 至少所有还在的人 都感到害怕 |
| 1349 | The weight of this is quite off-putting. | 这的重量相当低。 |
| 1350 | I worry about bringing kids into this burdensome moment. | 我担心把孩子带进这个累赘的时刻 |
| 1351 | There's a lot changing at the moment. | 目前变化很大. |
| 1352 | Seasonality, as in the move from spring to summer, appears to be eroding. | 季节性,如从春季到夏季的迁移,似乎正在减弱。 |
| 1353 | The unipolar world order, eroding. | 单极世界秩序正在削弱。 |
| 1354 | Cost of living, not eroding, as our gentleman over here pointed out. | 生活成本,而不是侵蚀, 正如我们的先生在这里指出。 |
| 1355 | But I'm sure on all of that, it's unrelated, right? | 但我敢肯定,这一切, 它是无关的,对不对? |
| 1356 | We're here to say technology is the problem. | 我们在这里说,技术是问题所在。 |
| 1357 | And I hope you've heard in what my colleagues have had to offer | 我希望你们已经听到 我的同事必须提供 |
| 1358 | that we must reject this resolution. | 我们必须拒绝这项决议。 |
| 1359 | It's a pleasing pitch, but like in a prime energy drink, | 这是一个令人愉快的投球, 但像在质能量饮料, |
| 1360 | it leaves a weird taste in your mouth. | 它在你的嘴里留下了一个奇怪的味道。 |
| 1361 | There's one insight to take from the history of technology, | 技术史上有一个洞察力 |
| 1362 | and I say this as a historian of technology, | 我以科技史学家的身份说 |
| 1363 | is that it doesn't operate on human culture deterministically. | 它不是在人类文化上 决定性的。 |
| 1364 | The printing press, heralded as the quintessential example | 印刷机是典型的例子 |
| 1365 | of tech determinism, did not suddenly activate literacy around the globe. | 技术决定论,并没有突然在全球发动扫盲。 |
| 1366 | It took 400 years. | 这花了400年。 |
| 1367 | And it operated in combination with other social innovations, | 它与其他社会革新相结合运作 |
| 1368 | like the introduction of elementary school, free education, | 比如小学的推行,免费教育, |
| 1369 | that unlocked that particular technological possibility. | 释放出特殊的科技可能性 |
| 1370 | My point is that technology spreads culturally like a rumor | 我想说的是 科技在文化上传播 就像传言一样 |
| 1371 | and not deterministically like water down a hill, okay? | 而不是像山下水一样确定,好吗? |
| 1372 | You participate in rumors. | 你参与谣言。 |
| 1373 | You may not participate in water down a hill. | 你可能不会参与山下的水。 |
| 1374 | I've been hearing a lot of rumors lately. | 最近我听到很多谣言 |
| 1375 | I heard that the people of Hungary voted Viktor Orban out after 16 years in power. | 听说匈牙利人民在执政16年后 投票选出了维克多·奥尔班 |
| 1376 | I heard that the Americans in Kansas elected their first Democratic senator | 我听说堪萨斯州的美国人 选出了第一位民主党参议员 |
| 1377 | in almost a century this week. | 本周将近一个世纪 |
| 1378 | Someone must have broken Zuck's firewall. | 一定是有人打破了Zuck的防火墙 |
| 1379 | I heard that millions of students in India repurposed a slur used against them, | 听说印度的数百万学生 重新用一个污泥对付他们, |
| 1380 | cockroach to secure concessions from the government via weeks-long nationwide protests. | 蟑螂通过长达数周的全国抗议活动, |
| 1381 | I heard that youth in France and Germany and Tibet, etc. | 我听说过法国、德国、西藏等地的青年 |
| 1382 | Sorry, I'm getting ahead of myself. | 对不起,我先走了 |
| 1383 | These are probably deep fakes. | 这些可能是很深的假货 |
| 1384 | What am I thinking? | 我在想什麽? |
| 1385 | Sorry. | 对不起 |
| 1386 | I should have known when the pope called me asking for my bank password. | 我早该知道教皇什么时候给我打电话 问我的银行密码 |
| 1387 | Yes. | 对 |
| 1388 | Yeah. | 对 |
| 1389 | What about them? | 那他们呢? |
| 1390 | That's a good point. | 说得有道理. |
| 1391 | That's kind of where I'm going with this, so stay with me. | 那种我要去的地方, 所以留在我身边。 |
| 1392 | And I know your vote is winnable, so let's see if I can get it. | 我知道你的投票可以赢得 所以看看能不能拿到 |
| 1393 | So, yeah, my job here in the university is to teach on an AI ethics and society masters, | 所以,是的,我在大学的工作 是教AI道德和社会大师, |
| 1394 | and on that course we talk about the word technology and the fact that it owes its popularity. | 在那条路线上,我们谈的是技术这个词 以及它受欢迎的事实。 |
| 1395 | It's probably on the ticket tonight in part because of the naming of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, | 可能是因为麻省理工学院的命名 |
| 1396 | which the historian Eric Schatzberg tells us picked the word because it sounded, | 历史学家Eric Schatzberg告诉我们 选这个词是因为听起来 |
| 1397 | and I quote, sufficiently erudite and foreign to convey intellectual authority. | 我引用, 足够的研究 和外国 传达知识权威。 |
| 1398 | Still does. | 仍然这样 |
| 1399 | The perception of intellectual authority is what brings us here tonight. | 知识权威的观念是今晚我们来到这里的原因。 |
| 1400 | It's what matters because if you staged this same debate in the post-war period, | 这才是最重要的 因为如果你在战后的时期 进行同样的辩论 |
| 1401 | many people would have told you that technology saved democracy. | 很多人会告诉你,技术拯救了民主。 |
| 1402 | It pushed off the fascists. | 它驱赶了法西斯 |
| 1403 | The atom bomb won the war, ended war, they would have told you. | 原子弹赢得了战争 结束了战争 他们会告诉你的 |
| 1404 | The trouble is, and this is why history starts to matter, is that the truth is a little bit more complicated, right? | 问题是,这就是为什么历史开始重要, 真相是有点复杂,对不对? |
| 1405 | The Soviets entered the war, as that guy that was sitting over there probably would have told us. | 苏联人进入了战争 坐在那边的那个人可能已经告诉我们了 |
| 1406 | Japanese elites conspired. | 日本精英阴谋. |
| 1407 | War didn't end. | 战争没有结束。 |
| 1408 | We're still doing it. | 我们还在做 |
| 1409 | It's cold now, and through financial means and proxies, et cetera. | 现在寒冷,通过财政手段和代理人等. |
| 1410 | So what's the lesson? | 那有什么教训? |
| 1411 | We've got to be careful with these knee-jerk explanations like atom bomb equals end of war, | 我们必须小心这些 膝盖神经病的解释 像原子炸弹等于战争的结束, |
| 1412 | because once history passes, you see all the other contingencies in play, | 因为一旦历史过去 你就会看到其他的意外 |
| 1413 | and those contingencies are what we are defending tonight, | 那些突发事件是我们今晚要捍卫的 |
| 1414 | that you do not know where you fit in history until the time passes, | 直到时间流逝,你才知道自己在历史中的位置, |
| 1415 | so you must not see the agency that you have, yeah? | 所以你不能去见你所在的机构,是吗? |
| 1416 | No. | 没有 |
| 1417 | I think that something that's interesting in this debate is that we've conflated technology to digital technology | 我认为这场辩论很有趣的是 我们已经把技术 和数字技术混为一谈 |
| 1418 | and then to social media and to AI, right? | 然后去社交媒体和AI,对不对? |
| 1419 | That's a move I want to just name because I think it matters. | 这是一个动作,我想只是命名 因为我认为它很重要。 |
| 1420 | And if this debate was AI-driven social media will impact democracy, | 如果这场辩论是由AI驱动的社交媒体会影响民主, |
| 1421 | I would be sitting on that aisle or offering them back massages or something. | 我会坐在过道上 或者给他们按摩什么的 |
| 1422 | Though our resolution is, I think, more interesting. | 尽管我们的决议,我认为更有趣。 |
| 1423 | Technology eroded democracy, as we heard, past tense, not will erode future tense. | 正如我们听到的那样,技术侵蚀了民主,过去的紧张状态不会削弱未来的紧张状态。 |
| 1424 | This debate is about history. | 这次辩论是关于历史的. |
| 1425 | If you vote for the proposition tonight, you are claiming that history, that that history is decisive, | 如果你今晚投票支持这个提议 你声称历史 历史是决定性的 |
| 1426 | that socio-technical phenomena are straightforward, | 社会技术现象是直截了当的, |
| 1427 | that democracy and technology fit together like boy and girl in a singular way, | 民主与技术的融合 就像男孩女孩一样 |
| 1428 | the way they're meant to fit together. | 他们的本意是融合在一起 |
| 1429 | And that's a comforting story, but it's a story I tend to hear from guys wearing tuxedos. | 这是一个令人欣慰的故事, 但我经常听到一个故事 从穿礼服的家伙。 |
| 1430 | Around there, out there in the rest of the world, technology means a lot of other things. | 周围,外面的世界, 技术意味着很多其他的东西。 |
| 1431 | It means tin roofs, it means buses, it means Emily in Paris. | 意为锡屋顶,意为巴士,意为巴黎的艾米莉. |
| 1432 | We cannot conflate technology with digital technology, | 我们不能把技术与数字技术混为一谈, |
| 1433 | because if you do, you flatten the argument and there's nowhere else to go. | 因为如果你这样做,你平息了争论, 没有别的地方可去。 |
| 1434 | In our view, democracy comes in many shapes and sizes, | 我们认为,民主有多种形式和规模, |
| 1435 | and we may not know the shape it needs to take yet, | 我们也许还不知道它需要什么样的形状, |
| 1436 | but I think the very fact that you're here means that we can figure it out. | 但我认为你在这里 意味着我们可以找出答案 |
| 1437 | Democracy cannot have eroded because it is not the White Cliffs of Dover or the Parthenon. | 民主不能削弱,因为它不是多佛的白崖或帕台农神庙。 |
| 1438 | Our view is that democracy is alive. | 我们认为,民主是活的。 |
| 1439 | It is a practice, an ancient practice, and one that is capable of self-repair, including overnight. | 它是一种惯例,是一种古老的惯例,能够自我修复,包括一夜之间。 |
| 1440 | This is what makes it powerful and why the metaphor of erosion is unfit for the task that's been assigned to it here. | 这就是它的力量,为什么侵蚀的隐喻 不适合它被赋予的任务。 |
| 1441 | I learned all this from my grandmother, who joined Cambridge University in 1948, | 我从1948年加入剑桥大学的祖母那里学到了这些 |
| 1442 | the same year this hallowed institution allowed its first woman to graduate. | 同年,这个神圣的机构允许其第一位妇女毕业。 |
| 1443 | Queen Elizabeth, shout out democracy. | 伊丽莎白女王,大声疾呼民主 |
| 1444 | I was 11 when Rosemary, my grandmother, returned to honor the women who studied here, | 我11岁的时候 我祖母罗斯玛丽回来 是为了纪念在这里学习的女人 |
| 1445 | but did not receive degrees at that time. | 但当时还没有获得学位。 |
| 1446 | And I don't recognize the democracy that the proposition have brought us here tonight, | 我不承认今晚这个提议带给我们的民主 |
| 1447 | because it erases her struggle and the work that she did to make normal, | 因为它抹去了她的斗争 以及她为恢复正常而做的工作 |
| 1448 | to make things that we take for granted today. | 让我们今天认为是理所当然的事 |
| 1449 | And yes, the challenges will be steep. | 是的,挑战将是严峻的。 |
| 1450 | Before she came to Cambridge, if you read her about her life, | 在她来剑桥之前 如果你读了她的生活 |
| 1451 | she was 18 years old when she was sent as a nurse to work for the Red Cross in a prisoner of war camp, | 当她被派到一个战俘营为红十字会工作时 她才18岁 |
| 1452 | and she said she grew up overnight. | 她说她一夜之间长大了 |
| 1453 | And I think what hangs over this debate is we are worried and we may have to grow up overnight | 我觉得这场辩论的悬念在于 我们很担心 我们可能要过一夜才能长大 |
| 1454 | if things get bad, but we will not give up, I think, without a fight. | 如果事情变得糟糕, 但我们不会放弃, 我想,没有战斗。 |
| 1455 | And that's why you must, I believe, follow our case tonight. | 所以,我相信,你今晚必须关注我们的案子 |
| 1456 | So I'll now conclude. | 所以,我现在结束。 |
| 1457 | I think the most interesting part of this debate is the work we expect technology to do, | 我认为这场辩论最有趣的部分 是我们期望技术能做的 |
| 1458 | like the founders of MIT, to just tie it all together. | 就像麻省理工学院的创始人一样 把它绑在一起 |
| 1459 | Technology did it, like it's a poo you found on the carpet. | 科技成功了,就像地毯上发现的粪便 |
| 1460 | Technology, you know, the bad boy's history strikes again. | 技术,你知道,坏男孩的历史再次打击。 |
| 1461 | A more interesting thesis, in my opinion, is that one that connects us to our lived experience. | 我认为,一个更有趣的论文是,它把我们与我们的生活经验联系起来。 |
| 1462 | Perhaps at some level this is why I question those closest to technology, | 也许在某些程度上,这就是为什么我质疑那些最接近技术的人, |
| 1463 | whether they have the lived experience to see the impact of their tools | 他们是否有活的经验 来了解他们的工具的影响 |
| 1464 | and to recognize the impact of their tools. | 并承认其工具的影响。 |
| 1465 | Years ago, a post went viral for describing a peculiarity of our modern age, | 几年前,一个文章因描述我们现代的特异性而病毒化, |
| 1466 | buying things to appear upwardly mobile while navigating the realities of structural decline. | 买东西可以向上移动,同时顺着结构衰退的现实。 |
| 1467 | They called this ritual premium mediocrity. | 他们称这个仪式为优雅的平庸 |
| 1468 | Example, flying first class on Ryanair. | 举个例子,在瑞安艾飞上头等舱 |
| 1469 | Food that Instagram's better than it tastes. | 食物的Instagram 比它的味道更好。 |
| 1470 | Going to Oxford? | 去牛津吗? |
| 1471 | Alright, sorry, that's it. | 好吧,对不起,就是这样。 |
| 1472 | I'm out of time. | 我没时间了 |
| 1473 | I'm out of time, so I will end here knowing that this is recorded | 我没时间了,所以我到此为止 就知道这已经录下来了 |
| 1474 | and since technology is a part of our history, I will speak to the future | 由于科技是我们历史的一部分,我将谈论未来 |
| 1475 | and to whoever may be watching this, come what may, | 凡观看《古兰经》者,都得来。 |
| 1476 | even though I hope I've convinced you that we are arguing about the past. | 虽然我希望我已经说服你 我们是在争论过去 |
| 1477 | The Austrian physicist and philosopher Ernst Mach, | 奥地利物理学家和哲学家恩斯特·马赫, |
| 1478 | whose work was very influential for Einstein, | 他的作品对爱因斯坦很有影响 |
| 1479 | wrote these words and inspired me to do my PhD. | 写了这些话 启发我做博士 |
| 1480 | So there are two ways of reconciling oneself with actuality. | 所以,有两种方法 调和自己与实际。 |
| 1481 | Either one grows accustomed to the puzzles and they trouble one no more, | 无论谁习惯了谜题 都不再烦恼 |
| 1482 | or one learns to understand them by the help of history | 或者通过历史的帮助来了解他们 |
| 1483 | and to consider them calmly from that point of view. | 从这个角度冷静地考虑它们。 |
| 1484 | There is only one way to enlightenment, historical studies. | 启蒙,历史研究只有一个方法. |
| 1485 | For these reasons, I beg you to please reject this motion. | 出于这些原因,我恳求你拒绝这项动议。 |
| 1486 | Thank you. | 谢谢 |
| 1487 | Thank you very much, Johnny. | 非常感谢,约翰尼。 |
| 1488 | Let's give one more round of applause to our eight speakers tonight. | 今晚再给我们八位演讲者鼓掌 |
| 1489 | And the floor speech prize for today was a free gin making class for two. | 今天的演讲奖是免费的 两人的杜松子酒课 |
| 1490 | I'm very proud to award it to our Lucy Cavendish member over here. | 我非常自豪地把它颁给我们的露西·卡文迪什成员 |
| 1491 | Another round of applause, please. | 再来一杯掌声 |
| 1492 | All right, that concludes today's debate, ladies and gentlemen. | 好了,今天的辩论到此结束 女士们,先生们 |
| 1493 | Coming up next, we have the etymology nerd on Tuesday in the chamber. | 接下来,我们周二在室里 有个病理书呆子 |
| 1494 | In this house, we vote with our feet, so please pick up any litter you have | 在这个房子里,我们用脚投票,所以请拿起你的任何垃圾 |
| 1495 | and walk through the door labeled I or no or abstain | 穿过门 贴上我标签 或没有 或弃权 |
| 1496 | according to which way you'd like to vote. | 根据你希望投票的方式 |
| 1497 | We'll be announcing the adults in the bar. | 我们将宣布成年人在酒吧。 |
| 1498 | Thank you very much. | 谢谢 |
| 1499 | Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. | 谢谢 女士们先生们 |
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