8-1 数千名移民进入西班牙的休达领土 | BBC全球新闻播
字幕摘录
| 时间 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 0:00 | Welcome to the Global News podcast from the BBC. | 欢迎来到英国广播公司的全球新闻播客。 |
| 0:03 | Hello, I'm Oliver Conway. | 你好 我是奥利弗·康威 |
| 0:04 | And today we're joined | 今天我们加入了 |
| 0:06 | by our Europe correspondent Sarah Rainsford to discuss the sudden rush of migrants from Morocco | 由欧洲记者Sarah Rainsford 讨论摩洛哥移民突然涌入的问题 |
| 0:12 | into the Spanish territory of Ceuta. | 进入西班牙领土休达。 |
| 0:15 | And Sarah, first tell us about Ceuta or Feuta as it's also | 莎拉,首先告诉我们休达和费塔... |
| 0:20 | called and why over the years it has been a migrant hotspot. | 以及为什么多年来它一直是移民热点。 |
| 0:25 | It's a part of Spain which is in North Africa and it is relatively, I say relatively, but relatively | 这是西班牙的一部分,在北非 相对而言,我说相对,但相对而言 |
| 0:33 | easy to reach for migrants who are trying to get to Europe. | 对试图进入欧洲的移民来说,这是很容易的。 |
| 0:37 | So it's a small tiny sort of pinprick | 所以,它是一个小 微小的种类的皮普里克 |
展开字幕全文（125 条）
| 序号 | 英文 | 中文 |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | Welcome to the Global News podcast from the BBC. | 欢迎来到英国广播公司的全球新闻播客。 |
| 2 | Hello, I'm Oliver Conway. | 你好 我是奥利弗·康威 |
| 3 | And today we're joined | 今天我们加入了 |
| 4 | by our Europe correspondent Sarah Rainsford to discuss the sudden rush of migrants from Morocco | 由欧洲记者Sarah Rainsford 讨论摩洛哥移民突然涌入的问题 |
| 5 | into the Spanish territory of Ceuta. | 进入西班牙领土休达。 |
| 6 | And Sarah, first tell us about Ceuta or Feuta as it's also | 莎拉,首先告诉我们休达和费塔... |
| 7 | called and why over the years it has been a migrant hotspot. | 以及为什么多年来它一直是移民热点。 |
| 8 | It's a part of Spain which is in North Africa and it is relatively, I say relatively, but relatively | 这是西班牙的一部分,在北非 相对而言,我说相对,但相对而言 |
| 9 | easy to reach for migrants who are trying to get to Europe. | 对试图进入欧洲的移民来说,这是很容易的。 |
| 10 | So it's a small tiny sort of pinprick | 所以,它是一个小 微小的种类的皮普里克 |
| 11 | really on the whole landmass of Africa but it borders Morocco directly and the border | 真正在非洲的陆地上 但它直接和摩洛哥接壤 |
| 12 | between Morocco and Ceuta is a fence essentially which goes out a little way into the sea. | 摩洛哥和休达之间是一道围栏, 基本上通向大海。 |
| 13 | So when | 所以什么时候 |
| 14 | people try to reach this sliver of European territory in Africa then they usually do that by | 人们试图到达欧洲在非洲的领土 然后他们通常这样做 |
| 15 | swimming generally several kilometres from further along the coast in Morocco but then they have to | 通常在离摩洛哥海岸更远的几公里处游泳,但随后它们必须 |
| 16 | go around that fence to make it to the beach in Ceuta. | 绕着围栏去休达的海滩 |
| 17 | It's complicated but it is far less | 事情很复杂,但是要少得多 |
| 18 | complicated of course than spending five, six days at sea trying to go from the the coast of | 当然,比在海上花5、6天 试图从海岸出发还复杂 |
| 19 | West Africa for example to the Canary Islands and other Spanish territory. | 例如,西非到加那利群岛和其他西班牙领土。 |
| 20 | Yeah, so tell us about | 是啊,所以告诉我们 |
| 21 | this sudden rush of tens of thousands of people. | 这突然冲动 数万人。 |
| 22 | Yeah, we now think according to the interior | 是啊,我们现在想 根据内部 |
| 23 | ministry, the Spanish interior ministry, it's around about 50,000 people who initially made it | 国防部,西班牙内政部, 大约5万人 最初, |
| 24 | across the border and into Ceuta. | 越过边境进入休达 |
| 25 | Now that is unprecedented, it has never happened before. | 这是前所未有的,它从未发生过。 |
| 26 | The | 那个 |
| 27 | only previous big surge in arrivals was around about 8,000 people back in 2021. | 2021年,只有大约8 000人回到了过去。 |
| 28 | Now this time | 现在这次 |
| 29 | the surge was really quite extraordinary because some people were able simply to | 因为有些人能够 |
| 30 | scramble onto the rocks and walk around the edge of the border fence. | 爬上岩石 绕着边境围栏走 |
| 31 | That was at the beginning, | 那是在开始, |
| 32 | a bit later it seemed that most people had to swim so they had to get out to sea and then around the | 一会儿,似乎大多数人 不得不游泳 所以他们必须出海 然后在周围 |
| 33 | fence and landing then on the beaches of Ceuta and then the scenes there were again quite | 然后在休达的海滩上降落 然后那里又发生了相当的场景 |
| 34 | something to see because there were huge piles of inflatable rings, swimming aids, flippers that | 是因为有一大堆充气的戒指 泳具 翻车 |
| 35 | people had been using, wetsuits that people have ripped off when they got there, all abandoned on | 人们一直在使用, 湿衣服 人们在到达那里时撕开, |
| 36 | the beach and and euphoric scenes as the people who had made it to Ceuta, to the Spanish territory, | 海滩和欢乐的场景 以及前往休达和西班牙领土的人 |
| 37 | were celebrating and and shouting Viva España and then making victory signs towards journalist | 庆祝和喊着"西班牙万岁" 然后对记者发出胜利的信号 |
| 38 | cameras there. | 摄像头在那里。 |
| 39 | But we do know that in this rush a number of people did die. | 但我们知道,在这种急迫中,确实有很多人丧生。 |
| 40 | Yeah, several dozen | 是啊,几十个 |
| 41 | people lost their lives, most of them we understand drowned, some people in the crush and the chaos | 人们失去了他们的生命, 多数我们理解他们淹死, 有些人在粉碎和混乱中 |
| 42 | initially as people rushed towards the border. | 当人们冲向边境时 |
| 43 | Now I think the big question at this point in all of | 现在,我认为大问题 在这一点上,在所有 |
| 44 | this is how it came to happen, why were so many people amassing in that area and kind of given a | 事情就是这样发生的, 为什么这么多人聚集在那个地区 并给予一种 |
| 45 | signal it seems to head towards the border. | 信号似乎朝边境飞去 |
| 46 | Now the Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez, he is | 现在西班牙总理佩德罗·桑切斯 |
| 47 | blaming human traffickers, he's saying that they have deceived young people primarily into crossing | 他指责人贩子 说他们欺骗了年轻人 |
| 48 | and to luring them essentially to that crossing point but it is clear that there was very little | 并基本上引导他们前往过境点,但显然几乎没有 |
| 49 | resistance if any from the images that we've seen and that other people have have studied | 如果有来自我们所看到的 以及其他人所研究的图像的抵抗 |
| 50 | resistance or prevention by the Moroccan border guards. | 摩洛哥边防军的抵抗或预防。 |
| 51 | So it's quite I think a big question at | 所以,我相当想一个大问题 |
| 52 | this point you know how much the Moroccan border guards appeared to simply melt away and how come | 你们知道摩洛哥边防军 究竟会融化到什么程度 |
| 53 | so many people were able to reach that border crossing and then get past it with relative ease. | 许多人能够到达边境口岸,然后相对轻松地通过。 |
| 54 | Yeah what do we know about the people who crossed because in the past you've seen migrants from | 是啊,我们知道哪些人 跨越,因为在过去,你见过移民 从 |
| 55 | other parts of Africa go to Morocco to try to get into Ceuta or Melilla but I read a lot of | 非洲其他地区去摩洛哥 试图进入休达或梅利利亚 但我读了很多 |
| 56 | reports that many of these were actual Moroccans. | 据报告,其中许多人是摩洛哥人。 |
| 57 | Yeah it does appear to be the case and I think | 是的,看起来确实如此,我想 |
| 58 | it's also really important to say that the Spanish Interior Minister is saying that in fact half of | 同样重要的是,西班牙内政部长说,事实上,一半的西班牙人认为, |
| 59 | those people so around about 25,000 of the people who made that crossing have headed back in the | 大约25 000人 已经回到了 |
| 60 | other direction already they've gone back to Morocco. | 他们已经回到摩洛哥了 |
| 61 | I've seen some interviews with young | 我见过一些采访年轻 |
| 62 | Moroccan men saying that they came and there was nothing in Ceuta for them, no food, nowhere to | 摩洛哥人说他们来了 休达没有东西给他们 没有食物 没有地方 |
| 63 | sleep and there was no point in hanging around and they simply turned around and went back through | 睡着 闲逛没有意义 他们只是转过身去 |
| 64 | a hole in the fence or swam around the border crossing and back to Morocco so that is quite | 在边境口岸周围的栅栏或游荡,然后返回摩洛哥,这样就相当了 |
| 65 | extraordinary and quite unique I think to understand why those people thought that there would be | 我理解为什么那些人会觉得 |
| 66 | better for them on the other side in the first place but there are other people coming from other | 但还有其他人来自他方 |
| 67 | areas or other regions of Africa and I think it's important as well to put this in the context of | 我认为,还必须将这一点放在以下背景下: |
| 68 | the much tighter controls that there have been recently off the coast of West Africa to prevent | 西非沿岸最近采取了更严格的控制措施,以防止 |
| 69 | migrants from making the crossing towards the Canary Islands for example Spanish territory | 例如西班牙领土 |
| 70 | out in that direction so that has in some senses squeezed people north and it is one reason why some | 从某种意义上说,这是挤压北边的人的原因之一 |
| 71 | migrants from sub-Saharan Africa will be trying to get to Europe through Ceuta, through Melilla, | 来自撒哈拉以南非洲的移民将试图通过休达,通过梅利利亚到达欧洲。 |
| 72 | through those those Spanish autonomous cities in the north of Africa. | 通过那些西班牙在非洲北部的自治城市 |
| 73 | And what is happening to the | 发生什么事了? |
| 74 | people who haven't gone back to Morocco those who are still in Ceuta? | 那些还没有回摩洛哥的人 那些还在休达的人? |
| 75 | Well all the political | 所有的政治问题 |
| 76 | statements have been really strong so the Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez has headed straight | 所以西班牙总理 佩德罗·桑切斯就直奔 |
| 77 | to Ceuta from handling the wildfires in Spain he's now handling this migrant crisis in this | 从处理西班牙的野火到休达 他现在正处理这个移民危机 |
| 78 | Spanish exclave now he is there saying look these people will be deported they will be sent back | 现在西班牙人离开,他在那里说 看这些人会被驱逐出境 他们会被送回去 |
| 79 | to Morocco it's important at this point to note as well that although Spain is EU territory and | 此时也必须指出,尽管西班牙是欧盟的领土, |
| 80 | Morocco is not of course and that normally if somebody applies for asylum or the right to remain | 摩洛哥当然不是,如果某人申请庇护或居留权,通常不会如此。 |
| 81 | in the EU that would have to be examined and considered on human rights grounds in between | 在欧盟,必须从人权角度审查和审议 |
| 82 | Morocco and Spain there is an arrangement that essentially allows Spain to push people back to | 摩洛哥和西班牙有一项安排,基本上允许西班牙将人们推回 |
| 83 | Morocco and Morocco is supposed to take them it is I think on the edge of migration legality let's | 摩洛哥和摩洛哥应该接受他们 我认为在移民合法性的边缘 |
| 84 | say but it's something that happens and so the Prime Minister Pedro Sanchez is saying that these | 说但事情发生了 所以总理佩德罗·桑切斯说 |
| 85 | people will be pushed back essentially deported to Morocco but I think that's a lot easier said | 人们会被驱逐回摩洛哥 但我觉得说得简单多了 |
| 86 | than done there are at least 20 000 25 000 people currently in Ceuta they have nowhere to go they | 休达目前至少有两万五千人无处可去 |
| 87 | have nowhere to stay lots of people are sleeping in the streets I think the conditions are difficult | 很多人在街上睡觉 我觉得情况很困难 |
| 88 | perhaps some of them will just go back but otherwise there is quite a big humanitarian | 也许他们中有些人会回去 但否则会有一大堆人道主义物品 |
| 89 | issue for the Spanish government to contend with and you would expect at some point for at least | 对西班牙政府提出的争议 你至少可以期待 |
| 90 | some of those people to be transferred to the mainland of Spain that is what's happened in the | 其中一些人被转移到西班牙本土 这就是发生在 |
| 91 | past although in the last crisis the vast majority of the people who came across eventually were | 虽然在上次的危机中, 绝大多数最终遇到的人 |
| 92 | deported back to Morocco and that happened very quickly so I think the Spanish want this to happen | 被遣送回摩洛哥 这件事发生得很快 所以西班牙人希望发生 |
| 93 | as quickly as possible because the longer it goes on the harder it is for them to handle | 越快越好 越难应付 |
| 94 | yeah it's also causing problems for them with Italy which is threatening to suspend its free | 也给意大利带来麻烦 威胁暂停自由 |
| 95 | border movement between Spain and Italy it is but I think there's a lot of politics at work in those | 西班牙和意大利之间的边界流动,但我认为,这些政治在起作用。 |
| 96 | words so very very quickly as soon as those images began to spread over social media of primarily | 一旦这些画面开始传播到社交媒体上, |
| 97 | rushing across a border into EU territory then very very quickly | 冲过边境进入欧盟领土 然后很快 |
| 98 | Italy's hard-right Prime Minister Giorgia Maloney went to social media and she talked | 意大利强硬的总理乔治亚·马洛尼上社交媒体, |
| 99 | about the security risks to Europe she talked about the shocking images and she said that | 关于欧洲的安全风险 她谈到令人震惊的图像 她说 |
| 100 | Italy would consider suspending its Schengen agreement with Spain so that by which people | 意大利将考虑暂停其与西班牙的申根协定,以便人民通过该协定 |
| 101 | can come from Spain to Italy with no no impediment no checks now there is no border between Italy | 现在意大利之间没有边界了 |
| 102 | and Spain the only way that anyone could come here would be by flying and it's pretty unlikely | 和西班牙 只有飞行才能到达这里 不太可能 |
| 103 | let's say impossible that undocumented migrants are about to board a plane from Spain to Italy | 假设没有证件的移民 即将登上从西班牙飞往意大利的飞机 |
| 104 | so I think this is primarily politics it's it's Maloney who's facing an election next year | 所以我认为这主要是政治 是马洛尼在面对明年的选举 |
| 105 | losing votes to an even harder right politician and trying to appeal to that electorate above all | 失去选票给更强硬的右派政治人物 并试图呼吁选民 |
| 106 | but migration is her issue she has a hard line on it and she's reiterating that at the moment | 但移民是她的问题 她有一个强硬的立场 她重申,目前 |
| 107 | and what are broader relations like between Spain and Morocco at the moment because sometimes in the | 以及西班牙和摩洛哥之间目前更广泛的关系是什么,因为有时在摩洛哥, |
| 108 | past we've seen these mass migrant events when there have been tensions between the two nations | 过去我们曾看到过这些大规模移民事件 当两国之间出现紧张关系时 |
| 109 | exactly and to be honest the thing that sprung straight to my mind was Belarus and Poland | 老实说,我直接想到的是 白俄罗斯和波兰 |
| 110 | a period in which Belarus was accused of weaponizing migration by by allowing migrants | 白俄罗斯被指控通过允许移民使移徙武器化的时期 |
| 111 | across the border into Poland at a period of tension in that relationship and and this | 在关系紧张的时期,越过边界进入波兰 |
| 112 | looking at the Spanish situation with Morocco there are some echoes of that here certainly | 从西班牙与摩洛哥的关系来看,这里肯定有一些回响。 |
| 113 | from the descriptions that we're hearing from on the ground and and certainly if we look back to | 从我们从地面听到的描述, 当然,如果我们回顾 |
| 114 | what happened in 2021 when it was quite clear that the Moroccan authorities basically stepped back | 当2021年摩洛哥当局 基本上退缩时 |
| 115 | and allowed people to cross the border the Spanish Prime Minister has been very clear to to play that | 并允许人们越过边境 西班牙总理非常清楚 |
| 116 | and to say that Morocco is an ally a close ally and that they are cooperating because he quite | 并说摩洛哥是一个盟友 一个亲密盟友,他们正在合作,因为他完全 |
| 117 | frankly wants to be able to send people back to Morocco so so that's his his public line but the | 坦白地说,他想把人送回摩洛哥 所以那是他的公开路线 |
| 118 | relationship is complicated it's all about the western Sahara region it's all about sovereignty | 关系很复杂 西撒哈拉地区就是主权 |
| 119 | there who recognizes who is the as the rightful owner if you like of that territory and the | 在那里,谁承认谁是合法拥有者 如果你喜欢那片领地和 |
| 120 | relationship between Spain Morocco and Spain and Algeria the other country in the mix there so there | 西班牙、摩洛哥、西班牙和阿尔及利亚之间的关系 |
| 121 | is a complicated diplomatic relationship in the background and it's something that people are | 这是一种复杂的外交关系 在背景,这是人们的东西 |
| 122 | pointing to as they try to explain what might have happened in this massive surge of people | 当他们试图解释 会发生什么 在这个巨大的人口激增 |
| 123 | rushing for the border Sarah thank you Sarah Rainsford our southern Europe correspondent | 赶到边境 莎拉 感谢你 莎拉 兰斯福 我们的南欧记者 |
| 124 | talking to us from Rome if you'd like to hear more from the global news podcast click the link | 请从全球新闻播客 点击链接 |
| 125 | below but for now thanks for watching | 下面,但现在谢谢你的观看 |
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